Ask Justin anything about today's topic during the premiere of this podcast episode and he'll answer you in real time in the chat! Also: ►Get the free mixing workshop: sonicscoop.com/MixHabits ►Get the free mastering workshop: sonicscoop.com/Mastering101 ►Win free stuff at sonicscoop.com/contest
A little trick that is is easy to do, is, to put a deesser before the vocal-reverb. You can go a little lighter on the vocal-track-deesser that way, as you are not feeding a lot of sibilance into the reverb.
Similar Pre-Delay tip: Reverb pre-delay has a lot to do with “back to forward” depth perception in a mix. There’s science behind this with our brains, but basically, any sound with pre-delayed reverb automatically sounds closer to the listener than sounds with no predelay (which sound further away, or behind those sounds). So obviously on lead vocals, you typically want them to feel close to the listener. So pre-delay is very important there. Then background vocals, you can use this trick in reverse to push them behind the main vocals
arseniy yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me and helped my mixes a lot when I learned this. I also intuitively assumed the opposite! Has to do with early reflections, all this subconscious stuff our brains do to tell us where sounds are coming from in real life. It’s remarkable to me how much depth and width we can perceive in a simple L+R stereo image
I find setting a pre delay time for reverbs is easier working backwards. Example, starting off by setting the delay time so i can definitely hear the reverb disconnected from the source sound then dialling it back to where it sounds good.
Wow. Super helpful discussion delivered in a concise manner. Can't wait to apply what I learned to my mixes - past, present, and future. Thank you! Excited to checking out the rest of your channel.
Man, you make great content! Love it. I need some advice! I’ve started working with a few artists that have been mixing their own stuff (not very well) and got to a point where they’re ready to outsource that part of their production so they hire me. The issue that’s coming up is that it feels like they really just want me to mix it the way they mix it. How do you balance giving the artist what they want and putting out a product you’re proud of? This is probably not an issue someone of your caliber deals with often, if at all, but I would love to hear your opinion on how to handle this. Maybe a video on the topic?
Great question. Yes, I'll see if I can do something longer on that idea sometime. But ideally you should be able to do both: Make something that the client is thrilled with that you are also proud of. To a degree that comes from expectation management on your side and theirs. But your own mindset is an important part of that. I'll see if I can talk on this in more detail sometime. Thanks!
I'm having a hard time... if you set up a reverb on an aux track and then add an EQ after it... if you send your lead vocal to it, isn't the EQ after the reverb going to mess up the EQ on the vocal too? In other words it will LPF and HPF the lead vocal too? Thanks
It shouldn't if you set it up correctly. A "reverb aux buss" usually runs along side (or in addition) to the lead vocal track. Think of it like having two channels of vocals, one that is dry with no verb and another track that contains all the reverb part of the vocal sound. This is why a SEND is used, you're splitting off some of the vocal to send to another track/aux that has reverb on it. Done this way, the EQ on the "aux reverb buss" will not alter the EQ on the lead vocal track. Be careful not to confuse a "vocal aux buss" for a "reverb aux buss." The "reverb aux buss" is only fed by a SEND from the lead vocal track. *** Remember to not send the OUTPUT of your "lead vocal track" to the "reverb aux buss," rather bring up a SEND. Then the OUTPUTS of both "lead vocal track" and "aux reverb track" will then be assigned to your "vocal aux buss" (if you're using that), or just the main mix buss.
Thank you, Justin for this insightful and inspiring video. A question to the room: I’ve heard of people sidechaining reverb to a compressor - in your view, is this effectively another way of adding Predelay? I haven’t tried it yet for myself, but would be interested In people’s thoughts in the meantime on whether it is overkill when combined with reverb predelay or, perhaps whether it might be useful for some other purpose... Thanks all! 🎧🥁🎹🎼
Someone actually asked this during the live chat for the premiere. Here was my answer then: -- "Ah, you mean like whenever the snare or vocal hits, the reverb is sucked down in that instance? Sure. That could work if you want to get away with a very long and dense reverb. "If you have a lot of reverb going on a lot of elements and it is masking a snare or a vocal you could try it to dry up the attack and get them to poke through more. Similar to sidechaining a pad." -- This is probably going to be most relevant when the reverb is applied to OTHER elements in addition to the sidechaining element, but can be used either way. If just used on the sidechaining element, then it's perhaps a little bit like a more mild version of a pre-delay on the attack. If you are already using a pre-delay, and it's just a single element then it's potentially a little redundant. The potential benefit here is really that the sustain of the reverb tucks down a little bit with each new note in either case. Hope that helps! -Justin
all sound in a space has pre delay by nature so we must use it... if we dont it is more artificial.. also using more than 100ms of predelay is also unatural because what kind of a space is that big?
@Gerhard Schöner Ah ok. I was thinking there was a way to have one reverb aux for an entire mix and being able to eq each send individaully on it's way in. Just so you dont need separate verbs for each instrument to save CPU. But I actually did figure it out. Just have an aux of each instrument before it goes into the verb aux.
OK. Before watching this it I'll think of my 2 biggest mistakes I did before started to learn mixing. 1. Put reverb on everything 2. Not knowing some basic rules that lead to put reverb without a reason and putting it wrong. The second one is a bit abstract and can lead to a lot of topics for different people. But I am not sure how to describe it. P.S. Another hard thing to bed producers is that dimension perception of reverb doesn't work in headphones.
In the 80s Reverb was used to create all of these big drum sounds. What your take on why modern mixing techniques don't utilize such heavy Reverb usage, is it just a trend? Listening back to Metallica's Black Album still seems like a very desirable drum sound that nobody seems to be chasing anymore
It is definitely a trend/fashion thing. Fashions come and fashions go. And if you wait long enough they will usually come back around again :-) Often multiple times. And if you look closely, you might find that much more subtle aspects of old trends still in use today-just not in as pronounced a way as they once were used. You see that kind of thing in clothing and in hair just as much as in reverbs and limiting and the like! Innoway the 70s and 80s and 90s are gone. But in a way they are still with us in minor little things that we take for granted find into new forms that are less obvious than they were when they were first advanced. Hope that helps, Justin
It’s totally fashion. The 70s, drums and instruments got super dry in mixing. People just thought it sounded clean and tight at the time. Then the 80s brought all these rack mount reverb units and people thought they sounded expensive so that became in. Gated reverb became a thing. It tends to follow engineering/mixing advances, every generation has a different take on what expensive sounds like 🤷♂️
Meh. Now think of electronic music domain. We use snares already with huge reverb printed into a sample. Depends on the song there can be pretty long reverbs on "snare" - think of Future Bass, some songs have pretty long reverbs. Also snare hits with huge loud reverb often heard as special effect. A single hits that appear time to time in a song.
for me personally, not rolling off the low end of the reverb. too much reverb to a sound that is already soft and squishy (like a pad) and also has low-mid frequencies. Both of those can put an unidentifiable fog over your whole mix just when you though you had done everything right to make things punchy, clear and balanced
Ask Justin anything about today's topic during the premiere of this podcast episode and he'll answer you in real time in the chat! Also:
►Get the free mixing workshop: sonicscoop.com/MixHabits
►Get the free mastering workshop: sonicscoop.com/Mastering101
►Win free stuff at sonicscoop.com/contest
I like the bit about preDelay- nobody else ever explained it that well.
A little trick that is is easy to do, is, to put a deesser before the vocal-reverb. You can go a little lighter on the vocal-track-deesser that way, as you are not feeding a lot of sibilance into the reverb.
Similar Pre-Delay tip: Reverb pre-delay has a lot to do with “back to forward” depth perception in a mix. There’s science behind this with our brains, but basically, any sound with pre-delayed reverb automatically sounds closer to the listener than sounds with no predelay (which sound further away, or behind those sounds). So obviously on lead vocals, you typically want them to feel close to the listener. So pre-delay is very important there. Then background vocals, you can use this trick in reverse to push them behind the main vocals
Yes. Exactly. A thing I learned only a while ago. And I did opposite before, because intuitively it seems like the more far the higher pre delay
Great insight yes. We should do a whole episode about depth sometime.
arseniy yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me and helped my mixes a lot when I learned this. I also intuitively assumed the opposite! Has to do with early reflections, all this subconscious stuff our brains do to tell us where sounds are coming from in real life. It’s remarkable to me how much depth and width we can perceive in a simple L+R stereo image
@@SonicScoop great idea! Tricky thing to nail. Great episode as usual, Justin!
I find setting a pre delay time for reverbs is easier working backwards. Example, starting off by setting the delay time so i can definitely hear the reverb disconnected from the source sound then dialling it back to where it sounds good.
Yes, this is a great approach!
@justin please can we have a webinar with wessel oltheten( mixing and mastering engr)thanks alot.
Golden Sonic Scoop Nuggets by Justin!! Great VERB rules of thumb!
Great insights. Makes me think of Serban Ghenea... the way he mixes reverb, especially on snares, is insane.
Great descriptions elucidating predelay & using reverb, thank you.
Thanks, Justin. More technique to add to all the stuff I've learned from you and Warren Huart. Take care and stay safe.
Absolutely the keys to reverb. Nice tips
Wow. Super helpful discussion delivered in a concise manner. Can't wait to apply what I learned to my mixes - past, present, and future. Thank you! Excited to checking out the rest of your channel.
🙏 🙏 😊
thank you so much for this quick one.
incidentally this gives me a good reason for using sends
Thank you for the informative video!!!🙏🙏🙏
Great Video Justin. You made some awesome points
Spot on thank you!
Man, you make great content! Love it. I need some advice! I’ve started working with a few artists that have been mixing their own stuff (not very well) and got to a point where they’re ready to outsource that part of their production so they hire me. The issue that’s coming up is that it feels like they really just want me to mix it the way they mix it. How do you balance giving the artist what they want and putting out a product you’re proud of? This is probably not an issue someone of your caliber deals with often, if at all, but I would love to hear your opinion on how to handle this. Maybe a video on the topic?
Great question. Yes, I'll see if I can do something longer on that idea sometime. But ideally you should be able to do both: Make something that the client is thrilled with that you are also proud of. To a degree that comes from expectation management on your side and theirs. But your own mindset is an important part of that. I'll see if I can talk on this in more detail sometime. Thanks!
Dude lookin' good!
I've been doing the eq part early because you mentioned it in another video lol
This is great, thank you. Is it common to EQ delays and early reflection plugins the same way as reverb plugins?
Yes, it is! Delays in particular.
thanks for that. Do you use a calculator for the pre delay or do you go by the feeling?
Good stuff !!
I'm having a hard time... if you set up a reverb on an aux track and then add an EQ after it... if you send your lead vocal to it, isn't the EQ after the reverb going to mess up the EQ on the vocal too? In other words it will LPF and HPF the lead vocal too? Thanks
It shouldn't if you set it up correctly. A "reverb aux buss" usually runs along side (or in addition) to the lead vocal track. Think of it like having two channels of vocals, one that is dry with no verb and another track that contains all the reverb part of the vocal sound. This is why a SEND is used, you're splitting off some of the vocal to send to another track/aux that has reverb on it. Done this way, the EQ on the "aux reverb buss" will not alter the EQ on the lead vocal track.
Be careful not to confuse a "vocal aux buss" for a "reverb aux buss." The "reverb aux buss" is only fed by a SEND from the lead vocal track. *** Remember to not send the OUTPUT of your "lead vocal track" to the "reverb aux buss," rather bring up a SEND. Then the OUTPUTS of both "lead vocal track" and "aux reverb track" will then be assigned to your "vocal aux buss" (if you're using that), or just the main mix buss.
@@danielmihlfeith Thank you, Daniel. No one has been able to say it as clearly as you did. I appreciate your help. Thank you
Thank you, Justin for this insightful and inspiring video.
A question to the room: I’ve heard of people sidechaining reverb to a compressor - in your view, is this effectively another way of adding Predelay? I haven’t tried it yet for myself, but would be interested In people’s thoughts in the meantime on whether it is overkill when combined with reverb predelay or, perhaps whether it might be useful for some other purpose...
Thanks all! 🎧🥁🎹🎼
Someone actually asked this during the live chat for the premiere. Here was my answer then:
--
"Ah, you mean like whenever the snare or vocal hits, the reverb is sucked down in that instance? Sure. That could work if you want to get away with a very long and dense reverb.
"If you have a lot of reverb going on a lot of elements and it is masking a snare or a vocal you could try it to dry up the attack and get them to poke through more. Similar to sidechaining a pad."
--
This is probably going to be most relevant when the reverb is applied to OTHER elements in addition to the sidechaining element, but can be used either way. If just used on the sidechaining element, then it's perhaps a little bit like a more mild version of a pre-delay on the attack.
If you are already using a pre-delay, and it's just a single element then it's potentially a little redundant. The potential benefit here is really that the sustain of the reverb tucks down a little bit with each new note in either case.
Hope that helps!
-Justin
Thank you Justin - I really appreciate your reply!
Good tips, I listen to it on 1.75 speed though, cause I have no patience 😂 I knew these tips tho, but good reminding
all sound in a space has pre delay by nature so we must use it... if we dont it is more artificial.. also using more than 100ms of predelay is also unatural because what kind of a space is that big?
Does anyone know how to EQ sends in Reaper? I haven't been able to figure it.
@Gerhard Schöner Ah ok. I was thinking there was a way to have one reverb aux for an entire mix and being able to eq each send individaully on it's way in. Just so you dont need separate verbs for each instrument to save CPU.
But I actually did figure it out. Just have an aux of each instrument before it goes into the verb aux.
OK. Before watching this it I'll think of my 2 biggest mistakes I did before started to learn mixing.
1. Put reverb on everything
2. Not knowing some basic rules that lead to put reverb without a reason and putting it wrong.
The second one is a bit abstract and can lead to a lot of topics for different people. But I am not sure how to describe it.
P.S.
Another hard thing to bed producers is that dimension perception of reverb doesn't work in headphones.
In the 80s Reverb was used to create all of these big drum sounds. What your take on why modern mixing techniques don't utilize such heavy Reverb usage, is it just a trend? Listening back to Metallica's Black Album still seems like a very desirable drum sound that nobody seems to be chasing anymore
It is definitely a trend/fashion thing.
Fashions come and fashions go. And if you wait long enough they will usually come back around again :-) Often multiple times.
And if you look closely, you might find that much more subtle aspects of old trends still in use today-just not in as pronounced a way as they once were used.
You see that kind of thing in clothing and in hair just as much as in reverbs and limiting and the like! Innoway the 70s and 80s and 90s are gone. But in a way they are still with us in minor little things that we take for granted find into new forms that are less obvious than they were when they were first advanced.
Hope that helps,
Justin
It’s totally fashion. The 70s, drums and instruments got super dry in mixing. People just thought it sounded clean and tight at the time. Then the 80s brought all these rack mount reverb units and people thought they sounded expensive so that became in. Gated reverb became a thing. It tends to follow engineering/mixing advances, every generation has a different take on what expensive sounds like 🤷♂️
Meh. Now think of electronic music domain. We use snares already with huge reverb printed into a sample. Depends on the song there can be pretty long reverbs on "snare" - think of Future Bass, some songs have pretty long reverbs. Also snare hits with huge loud reverb often heard as special effect. A single hits that appear time to time in a song.
Didn’t know about pre-delay... thank very much
for me personally, not rolling off the low end of the reverb. too much reverb to a sound that is already soft and squishy (like a pad) and also has low-mid frequencies. Both of those can put an unidentifiable fog over your whole mix just when you though you had done everything right to make things punchy, clear and balanced
Mmmmmmm.... Pre delay.....
The Ametis mic did sound better than this 67.