Also, the speed of charge n slam is pretty close to the speed of a light, so you can easily out maneuver it Let's nerf the class that has been nerfed like crazy and every other specialty in class is borderline meme pick
I think the damage of the charging needs to be reduced but the damage of jumping and slamming can remain high. This is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively heavy and I think it'd be a way to add balancing without turning it to trash tier@@GLZ0
If winch claw did 20 dmg you’d have some nasty combos man, like shot, claw, shot melee would kill a light. Hell even if it did 5 more dmg than it does now.
I feel like the cloaking device is a lot better for picking off opponents one by one, like when a team is en route to a cash out, they dont tend to stick together as much as they should be. You can sneak up on one, kill them, reengage camo while the others wonder “where did my teammate go,” strafe a little (cloaking device is actually made very VERY impactful with the proper strafing, as the enemy will start to wonder where you are when they notice that the little person isn’t taking damage even though they were just right there), wait for them to turn around, toss frags and a stun for a kill, then solo the last person on the team. Easy solo wipe.
" It's really frustrating as a light or a medium because it feels like you can't do a whole lot" That explains the sword in a nutshell.. if they Nerf my charge and slam they better Nerf sword
Two things wrong with heavy. Low mobility and bustes charge and slam. If they make it a leap and slam they can use the leap for movement and it gets rid of 360 charge cheese
Yea nerf the last useful spec, how about bring back mesh shield? Heavy used to be about destruction and defence, now both shields and destruction nerfed, Heavy is just a glorified meat shield.
It takes almost a minute to recharge it, plus you can miss it. Its not as overturned as you think it is, you just keep falling into idealism conditions
@@nerfnothin2891 its still a free kill. when dosent that help? its not maybe as overtuned as we think but its still just unfun, slightly OP in the right hands who dosent just stun a heavy and run away and its extremly situational.
@@Thy_cockroach_crusadersorry but im not buying the "its a free kill". You just literally need to turn and shoot. Im main medium and i dont remember the last time i died cause of stun gun, note: i play light and heavy as well. Stun gun is shit 90% of the time
Something I have been wanting to SCREAM from the rooftops (aka Reddit) is that Embark should do a bold experiment and move the Defibrillator to the LIGHT class instead of Medium. Decoupling the Defib from the Heal Beam, and putting it on a squishier target, will completely change the dynamics of those tools overnight. And I hazard the guess that double/triple Light with Defib would be dramatically less viable than double/triple Medium with Defib and Heal Beams. I think it would bring alot of support power to the Light class and weaken the Medium's monopoly, while also warranting the undoing of some nerfs to each of them.
@@dannyman5751 lol the problem on defib literally Triple res where instead fighting 3 people, u feels like fighting 6 people Imagine giving Defib on Class who can go out from battlefield fast And imagine triple Light with triple Defib where they have fastest HP regen time A right balance for Defib is restricting how many same gadget in 1 team, at least only on competitive mode (let Quick Cash stay same) So when u lock up 1-2 Defib, other teammate can't use Defib (can be preserved for swap gadget but can't be swap till your team unequip their Defib)
Honestly not a bad idea for a shake up, I’d agree that they have to decouple the healing beam and defib cause it’s too wayyy too strong. Was chatting with my friends and we were thinking what if defib became a specialization? It’s that strong of a gadget on its own, why not make it a specialization?
That could be interesting. It would certainly make the light more viable as a support unit. My friends and I went 8 wins in a row last night with double heavy/healing beam, it felt way overpowered.
Logically it makes sense but I find most lights in solo queue never play close to team or loop around during engagements. 90% of the time they’re nowhere near me or teammates. I feel like it would essentially kill the defib. Another thought - medium with no more defib (easily meta for medium) and all the movement tools and strong primaries would just hunt and never play team based essentially undoing the point of medium being support. The defib meta almost forces mediums to play team IMO. I’d be interested to see how it played out in reality though. Just my thoughts.
I have played since the day The Finals was released (lucky find on steam) and I think, balancing wise, this has been the best season (every season had their OP class. Last season lights were broken af. So I can’t knock too much with the medium being busted this season. I wish they wouldn’t have nerfed the heavy so bad and I don’t play heavy.) But man, the desync issues and lag server side went wild this season. Never had an issue from season 1-3, except the very end of season 3, but I haven’t felt illegitimate deaths like I have this season and I really hope they fix it.
Honestly would agree, this game has seen some really interesting metas over the past year but I’d agree that it’s in a really healthy spot, only thing is now teams are recognizing how strong 3 M + defib is😅
Looking at the guardian turret, placing it in A tier is kinda crazy. Solid B tier just because it does a somewhat crappy rotating area denial, and realistically you won't get kills with it past gold, i've tried (current rank 43500rs) Heal gun at S tier is kinda nuts as well. On its own is really bad thanks to the constant crying from the community, stacked it's tolerable but people can't focus the healers for shit and most ruby comps are mml with heal or mhl with demat anyways so it's not this "life hack" that people think it is No reason they didn't just cap the max heal/person to 1-1.5 beam/person, looking back at the changelogs they're so bad at balancing shit and preventing cheese it's hilarious
ngl the mesh shield is kinda slept on. although it is worse for 1v1 situations, it is wayyyy better for team utility because it regains all of its health after every single use. also, it only has a 4 second cooldown which is shorter than an entire dome shield duration
If they bring back recon senses it can have the drawback of revealing temporarily the location of the player using it, but you wouldn’t know where they’re allies are not any traps they set.
With the latency on this game countering melee weapons and basically impossible people hit you without even looking at you you can dash around them all you want they can literally hit you with their back turned like you literally can’t tell if people are actually looking at you so it’s kindof a bad argument
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o You must not have played data reshaper in a while. Check the range on that thing. Also you have 3 charges with no cooldown in between so several turrets are easy to deal with too.
There’s a goofy winch claw tech with the spear that is semi viable on maps like Seoul. If you winch and then immediately power attack and side step it launches the person (hopefully off the map)
I dont know why they didnt give recon the mesh shield treatment. Reduce its overall meter and increase its reuse time. Ofc i wanted it to just flash 5 meters infront of you for a second so you could peek a room and then have to wait for a cool down.
Surprisingly the cloaking device is really good with throwing blades. Ive gotten 20 kills a few times with that combo. But yeah its definitely the worst out of the 3 light abilities. You can be de cloaked so easily
@@WhiteVipor see this stems from a different comment he posted on my comment. You weren’t there so you wouldn’t know but thanks for your toxic input as well
cloaking device is absolutely better than evasive dash. Not a fan of the "ranking based off the average player's skills." Even in the best player's hands there are tiers to these specs- each spec has its own skill ceiling and it would've been nice to see your genuine take on which options are more optimal.
having that in mind, my personal tierlist, being as objective as possible, would be S: Charge n Slam, Healing Beam A: Cloaking Device, Dematerializer B: Evasive Dash, Winch Claw, Mesh Shield C: Turret, Grapple F: Goo Gun
Dash doesn't need a Nerf? You can't say s tier needs a nerf - you should be comparing specialisations across all classes. But it feels like what you're doing is saying it's s tier for the light class (which it is) but that shouldn't have been the point of the video.
No. I like getting crushed, then crushing myself. Go play cod if you want a safe space for bad players to never improve. Every match will feel the same if everyone is similar skill
@ no. I’m fine with good competition. When we lose in first 5 mins because the randoms on my team are new af and the other team all have 10+ kills each with one having 24 kills. It’s not balanced
After all the nerfs to heavy, you have the audacity to say that charge and slam, the last good thing on heavy needs a nerf!!!!????? Bruh.... lol idk why I care I haven't played in 2 weeks and just went back to league of legends lmao
@yatchzy7146 because it's the only good thing left! Lol let's not forget that one glitch mine, or glitch grenade or stun gun completely stops you in your tracks..... I'm just over the Nerf festival that the devs are having for heavy. They have nerfed C4, frag mines, rpg, walls, dome shield, mesh shield, winch claw, and I'm pretty sure there are a couple more things I'm not remembering. After all the nerfs I consistently played in lobbies with triple medium or all medium and lights with myself being the only heavy for DAYS. With the ttk on heavy being abysmal, I'm good. Lol embark already got money out of me for battle passes and skins so I'm sure they don't care that I'm not playing anymore lol
I know it's coming but the Charge and slam DOES NOT need a nerf. Y'all just want heavy nerfed so much that it's just a medium build but with a bigger hit box and not being able to heal teammates
Can we have a moment of silence for the mesh shield that died slowly via succumbing to it's nerfs
ㅤ
@@Kraber_57 ...
I'd be much happier with mesh if they just let you quick melee with it active again.
It is over😢
I'm using it wish M60 and c4, it's really not that bad id you know how to use it
yeah an "oh shit" button that deals 130+ damage is kinda bonkers
Literally, any time there's a rough situation they just insta kill you
Nah it's fine.. Literally the main reason I play the game! Pressing Q and destroying everything/everyone in your path is therapy 😅
You know you can shoot them while they run, right?
Also, the speed of charge n slam is pretty close to the speed of a light, so you can easily out maneuver it
Let's nerf the class that has been nerfed like crazy and every other specialty in class is borderline meme pick
@@RandomDude77780 I get teammates rage quitting on me all the time for using spear and KS23 😅 Bunch of meta using 🐑
they nerf the goo gun tech just to f with the 20 goo mains in this game, and its make me sad bro
I think all we really need to change is the insane sharp turn radius of charge and slam and that'll solve a lot of it's issues imo
Limiting player control/movement sounds horrible. Imo
nah, its the dmg
I think the damage of the charging needs to be reduced but the damage of jumping and slamming can remain high. This is coming from someone who plays almost exclusively heavy and I think it'd be a way to add balancing without turning it to trash tier@@GLZ0
Embark went from wall hack to hacking the wall. Lol
The most underrated build is ks23 winch claw that’s all I’m saying
If winch claw did 20 dmg you’d have some nasty combos man, like shot, claw, shot melee would kill a light. Hell even if it did 5 more dmg than it does now.
I feel like the cloaking device is a lot better for picking off opponents one by one, like when a team is en route to a cash out, they dont tend to stick together as much as they should be. You can sneak up on one, kill them, reengage camo while the others wonder “where did my teammate go,” strafe a little (cloaking device is actually made very VERY impactful with the proper strafing, as the enemy will start to wonder where you are when they notice that the little person isn’t taking damage even though they were just right there), wait for them to turn around, toss frags and a stun for a kill, then solo the last person on the team. Easy solo wipe.
" It's really frustrating as a light or a medium because it feels like you can't do a whole lot"
That explains the sword in a nutshell.. if they Nerf my charge and slam they better Nerf sword
Saying turret is on the same tier as demat is insane!
Two things wrong with heavy. Low mobility and bustes charge and slam. If they make it a leap and slam they can use the leap for movement and it gets rid of 360 charge cheese
Yea nerf the last useful spec, how about bring back mesh shield? Heavy used to be about destruction and defence, now both shields and destruction nerfed, Heavy is just a glorified meat shield.
They didn't need to nerf the characters. They needed to nerf their playstiles. Nobody likes the stun so just remove it
It takes almost a minute to recharge it, plus you can miss it. Its not as overturned as you think it is, you just keep falling into idealism conditions
@@nerfnothin2891 its still a free kill. when dosent that help? its not maybe as overtuned as we think but its still just unfun, slightly OP in the right hands who dosent just stun a heavy and run away and its extremly situational.
@@nerfnothin2891not to say I agree but also just because something only can be used once a minute doesn’t make those few times any less frustrating
@@nerfnothin2891 minute? what game are you playing da faq
@@Thy_cockroach_crusadersorry but im not buying the "its a free kill". You just literally need to turn and shoot. Im main medium and i dont remember the last time i died cause of stun gun, note: i play light and heavy as well. Stun gun is shit 90% of the time
Agree with your tierlist, and it shows Embark did a good job at balancing specialization consider most of them are in A/S tier
Something I have been wanting to SCREAM from the rooftops (aka Reddit) is that Embark should do a bold experiment and move the Defibrillator to the LIGHT class instead of Medium. Decoupling the Defib from the Heal Beam, and putting it on a squishier target, will completely change the dynamics of those tools overnight. And I hazard the guess that double/triple Light with Defib would be dramatically less viable than double/triple Medium with Defib and Heal Beams.
I think it would bring alot of support power to the Light class and weaken the Medium's monopoly, while also warranting the undoing of some nerfs to each of them.
first not horrible defib rebalance idea ive seen
@@dannyman5751 lol the problem on defib literally Triple res where instead fighting 3 people, u feels like fighting 6 people
Imagine giving Defib on Class who can go out from battlefield fast
And imagine triple Light with triple Defib where they have fastest HP regen time
A right balance for Defib is restricting how many same gadget in 1 team, at least only on competitive mode (let Quick Cash stay same)
So when u lock up 1-2 Defib, other teammate can't use Defib (can be preserved for swap gadget but can't be swap till your team unequip their Defib)
Honestly not a bad idea for a shake up, I’d agree that they have to decouple the healing beam and defib cause it’s too wayyy too strong. Was chatting with my friends and we were thinking what if defib became a specialization? It’s that strong of a gadget on its own, why not make it a specialization?
That could be interesting. It would certainly make the light more viable as a support unit. My friends and I went 8 wins in a row last night with double heavy/healing beam, it felt way overpowered.
Logically it makes sense but I find most lights in solo queue never play close to team or loop around during engagements. 90% of the time they’re nowhere near me or teammates. I feel like it would essentially kill the defib. Another thought - medium with no more defib (easily meta for medium) and all the movement tools and strong primaries would just hunt and never play team based essentially undoing the point of medium being support. The defib meta almost forces mediums to play team IMO. I’d be interested to see how it played out in reality though. Just my thoughts.
You can counter charge and slam either by junppad as a medium, or catching the heavy in a anti grav cube radius by throwing it preemptively
Or... maybe... Just dodge it. Lmao
All of those are easier said than done
@@DoctorWhoBlue for sure, but if it's the final round and you KNOW the enemy heavy has charge and slam, you can be ready for it
@@fant4510yea good luck with that against someone who knows how to turn
It's easy to say but depending on the situation it's just a one click kill
if they dare to touch dash, its over for the existence of light.
I have played since the day The Finals was released (lucky find on steam) and I think, balancing wise, this has been the best season (every season had their OP class. Last season lights were broken af. So I can’t knock too much with the medium being busted this season. I wish they wouldn’t have nerfed the heavy so bad and I don’t play heavy.) But man, the desync issues and lag server side went wild this season. Never had an issue from season 1-3, except the very end of season 3, but I haven’t felt illegitimate deaths like I have this season and I really hope they fix it.
Honestly would agree, this game has seen some really interesting metas over the past year but I’d agree that it’s in a really healthy spot, only thing is now teams are recognizing how strong 3 M + defib is😅
Looking at the guardian turret, placing it in A tier is kinda crazy. Solid B tier just because it does a somewhat crappy rotating area denial, and realistically you won't get kills with it past gold, i've tried (current rank 43500rs)
Heal gun at S tier is kinda nuts as well. On its own is really bad thanks to the constant crying from the community, stacked it's tolerable but people can't focus the healers for shit and most ruby comps are mml with heal or mhl with demat anyways so it's not this "life hack" that people think it is
No reason they didn't just cap the max heal/person to 1-1.5 beam/person, looking back at the changelogs they're so bad at balancing shit and preventing cheese it's hilarious
ngl the mesh shield is kinda slept on. although it is worse for 1v1 situations, it is wayyyy better for team utility because it regains all of its health after every single use. also, it only has a 4 second cooldown which is shorter than an entire dome shield duration
If they bring back recon senses it can have the drawback of revealing temporarily the location of the player using it, but you wouldn’t know where they’re allies are not any traps they set.
Honestly not a bad idea
Yo no way I was looking for a vid like this
@@pohogaming gotchu homie
You counter charge and slam by getting out of the turning radius. It can only turn so much
With the latency on this game countering melee weapons and basically impossible people hit you without even looking at you you can dash around them all you want they can literally hit you with their back turned like you literally can’t tell if people are actually looking at you so it’s kindof a bad argument
Turret is trash. You can delet an entire teams turrets by just bringing a single data reshaper.
Who the hell bringin a data reshaper
@dishinthetruth8146 high iq gentlemen
Only if you can get close enough.. With good placement, turrets can shred! Especially when there's more than 1
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o You must not have played data reshaper in a while. Check the range on that thing. Also you have 3 charges with no cooldown in between so several turrets are easy to deal with too.
There’s a goofy winch claw tech with the spear that is semi viable on maps like Seoul. If you winch and then immediately power attack and side step it launches the person (hopefully off the map)
I dont know why they didnt give recon the mesh shield treatment. Reduce its overall meter and increase its reuse time. Ofc i wanted it to just flash 5 meters infront of you for a second so you could peek a room and then have to wait for a cool down.
Wall hacks are lame in most games. Just makes it harder to know if someone's cheating
Evasive dash should be top of A tier. Heal beam and charge and slam still define the meta whereas not many people play light at high tiers still.
Cloaking device and sawed off is the best for casual play if this is what the table is on
Grapple and demat are my mains and I love them. They take you as far as your imagination allows and are infinitely good but also infinitely awful 😂
Surprisingly the cloaking device is really good with throwing blades. Ive gotten 20 kills a few times with that combo. But yeah its definitely the worst out of the 3 light abilities. You can be de cloaked so easily
Cloak as B tier is crazy
@@thebapslaps no u :)
Can't go any higher than B tbh,if they revert the cost to activate back, it'll be A for sure
4:30 dash is more obnoxious than cloaking device
I feel it, both are toxic. Especially when I'm the one using sledgehammer lol
hard disagree. Shooting straight from invis is way worse game design than movement.
Try hitting em with KS23..
I need charge n slam cuz heavy weapons just dont compete with other classes weapons..
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o I see why you’re so toxic, It’s your life playing this game. Get outside it’s not that serious kid
@@careerwelder84the irony of this comment is insane
@@WhiteVipor see this stems from a different comment he posted on my comment. You weren’t there so you wouldn’t know but thanks for your toxic input as well
Turrets in A tier LOL you can literally throw goo in front of it and it’s useless
Please don't get my slam nerfed
@plant_time Don't worry, even though I said it's kinda busted..... I like tha slam 💪
cloaking device is absolutely better than evasive dash. Not a fan of the "ranking based off the average player's skills." Even in the best player's hands there are tiers to these specs- each spec has its own skill ceiling and it would've been nice to see your genuine take on which options are more optimal.
having that in mind, my personal tierlist, being as objective as possible, would be
S: Charge n Slam, Healing Beam
A: Cloaking Device, Dematerializer
B: Evasive Dash, Winch Claw, Mesh Shield
C: Turret, Grapple
F: Goo Gun
Yea the winch claw did 15 damage before, they nerfed bcz of kill combos
Yet they kept the multiple second stun lock. 💀 I refuse to use winch. It feels just as toxic as stun and flashbangs
Imo
Googun is very niche, and turett deal no damage, long CD and easy countered they are in B for me.
And nothing in S need a nerf
Nah I actually been thinking it needs to be buffed
Dash doesn't need a Nerf? You can't say s tier needs a nerf - you should be comparing specialisations across all classes. But it feels like what you're doing is saying it's s tier for the light class (which it is) but that shouldn't have been the point of the video.
Charge does not need nerfed.
True, if u get rekt with charge, u should learn more how to dodge or take distance
right I don’t understand why people think you should be able to bully heavy, the guns on heavy already feel like some of the worst to use.
@@manyblock4192 fax
Fix unbalanced matchmaking in casual
No. I like getting crushed, then crushing myself. Go play cod if you want a safe space for bad players to never improve. Every match will feel the same if everyone is similar skill
@ no. I’m fine with good competition. When we lose in first 5 mins because the randoms on my team are new af and the other team all have 10+ kills each with one having 24 kills. It’s not balanced
@ definitely you’re part of the toxic community that is in every game, but adults are talking kid. Matchmaking isn’t balanced at all.
After all the nerfs to heavy, you have the audacity to say that charge and slam, the last good thing on heavy needs a nerf!!!!????? Bruh.... lol idk why I care I haven't played in 2 weeks and just went back to league of legends lmao
Charge and Slam is actually crazy. I’ll get double digit games and half of my kills are slams 😂
Do you want a hug? You don't need to self harm with LOL
@yatchzy7146 because it's the only good thing left! Lol let's not forget that one glitch mine, or glitch grenade or stun gun completely stops you in your tracks..... I'm just over the Nerf festival that the devs are having for heavy. They have nerfed C4, frag mines, rpg, walls, dome shield, mesh shield, winch claw, and I'm pretty sure there are a couple more things I'm not remembering. After all the nerfs I consistently played in lobbies with triple medium or all medium and lights with myself being the only heavy for DAYS. With the ttk on heavy being abysmal, I'm good. Lol embark already got money out of me for battle passes and skins so I'm sure they don't care that I'm not playing anymore lol
Heal beam just got nerfed tho
Give me back emote canceling 👿 i miss my super dashes
"So bite me" 🤨🤨
:)
@CalmZinCombo is it a reference?
Nah just a quip equivalent to deal with it or fight me
I never really liked recon when it was in the game
Cloak is s+tier what is bro smoking
Servers are still trash
If embark nerf charge n slam i'll probably quit the game. Itll just be sweaty lights and meta mediums.
I know it's coming but the Charge and slam DOES NOT need a nerf.
Y'all just want heavy nerfed so much that it's just a medium build but with a bigger hit box and not being able to heal teammates
Nice
Cloak is op in casual but possibly the worst special in the game in pro play
Valid
Cloak is cringe.
Winch claw should do more dmg but not stun lock you as hard. It doesnt let me charge n slam them. I just stand there until i die 😢
@@user-ne9sd4ow1o lol