It's rough to imagine how someone probably experienced 3:02 POV in real life during the war. Poof, the life of the person in front of you gone just like that...
Operation Neptune is really rough to think about overall. It's considered a massive success, even though the strategy was mainly to just overwhelm the Germans' defense of the beach. Yeah there was some intel and misdirection involved, too, but at the end of the day, hundreds (actually thousands) of young men lost their lives doing nothing more than taking up a few moments of a German's aim. And that was the whole point. Fucking unreal.
@@tmwombocombo4115 Honestly the moment that made me fall in love with this game went like that. I was in a truck full of people and we were dicking around on our way to obj. I hop out to drop supplies for the commander to build a garri and we're all still bullshitting back and forth while they pull around the corner to try and blitz the next capture area... fucking mid word the truck just fucking explodes. And me and the commander wind up playing cat and mouse against a scout tank and recon squad for close to fifteen minutes while our team got it's shit together.
8:28 Yup, that's probably the most realistic battle simulation ever to happen in this entire game, except for the fact that you actually saw it before being obliterated.
It would be more realistic if it broke down 20 miles behind the front line, and wouldn’t return to service until months later because it needs very specific parts Considering it’s a tiger
@@podomuss I know this isn't technically contesting what you said, but I wanna dispel the "hee hoo bad transmission" myth. The Tiger was actually pretty reliable compared to other tanks of it's size. The issue was the Germans didn't give their crews enough spare parts so they couldn't do anything if it *did* break down unlike the Allies. It was a logistical failure, not an engineering one.
@@personhuman2239 Logistics win wars. Apparently the Nazis were too stupid to realize that. I don’t care how many Wunder Weapons you have, you’re not gonna win if you can’t produce them, transport them, and use them efficiently T-34’s and Sherman’s were just better tanks, because they were easy to produce, and easy to fix up. The Allies knew the importance of logistics, Adolph Shitler and his cronies clearly didn’t, as they decided to make everything a logistical nightmare
HLL is way different on PC. I would say 80% of people have mics & communicate, & people tend to do call outs/etc a lot. However, when they have a free weekend on PC for this game it tends to be frustrating playing with full servers of people who don’t know to place garrisons & do call outs. It’s cool seeing the community of this game be so big for such a “brutal” FPS
I’m pretty sure the servers are cross platform. On my Xbox I can choose if I want console only or cross platform. And 80% of the players of this game are PC, so….. your server are my server lol.
@@Warthog42069 Xbox only has cross platform with PlayStation. It’s not the same game, PC is always 2-3 updates ahead. Some recent updates in this game have changed the gameplay drastically. Also on PC you play on 3rd party servers 90% of the time, which opens the door to servers having rules & people getting booted out of them for malicious behavior.
@@mcdhensleyable I actually didn’t know that. Now that you mention it I did wonder why they said the PC version only, has the Russian campaigns in the past. I just assumed it was a programming thing for consoles since they were a small team lol.
@@houseofchinn6112 I have a 10600k/3070ti combo & I’m getting on average 50-75 fps on most maps. I’m also playing on 1440 ultra. However, this game isn’t optimized the best & some maps have poor performance
The reason you won’t have heard any comms as the sniper is because the spotter is the only role in the recon squad that gets access to the command chat. The other squads could have been quite chatty but you’d never have known
But where is his spotter? I believe he created a locked squad and played solo sniper... Edit: In the bottom left you can see that he is the only one in his squad as a sniper. He seems to be purposefully playing as a lone wolf...
@@joniskates if it was a locked squad, he had to have requested for a locked squad first and the spotter simply left, but considering he asked a random person to join it, it was likely open
It’s nice to see T-Bag playing this game again, especially seeing as I’m a member of a big console clan for it. You remind me of myself when I was starting out in this game T-bag, just keep playing trust me, you’ll get better every hour you put in. It didn’t take me more than a month to learn the ins and outs of the game.
@@camelthegamer7165 Surely, I’m part of a clan called the “1ST. Infantry Division”. We’ve got lots of cool people in there, they’re pretty nice. If you buy the game, send me your Discord and I shots you an invite if you want to join.
I really recommend at least reporting locations of enemies to your team. It really helps the team and it doesn't take alot of effort. This is a team game where communication is absolutely essential and you can't just rely on others to give information to you. You need to pass the information you collected for the good of your team. Edit: And dont go killing enemies haphazardly. sometimes a greater opportunity may arise when you wait patiently in the right situations.
Agreed, however note he was the sniper and that's the spotters job as they have access to the command chat, and can place SL marks on the map. I'm pretty sure his squad was unlocked
Its not just the spotter, as the sniper has ways of communicating information to the spotter that the spotter may not have noticed, he’s treating hell let loose more like a battlefield FPS instead of communicating
@@TheCaesarion Yes, he is. And he's also giving newbies the impression of playing the game in a way that is very detrimental to the whole team. Because kills don't mean shit if you can't lock down and destroy enemy spawns. Because rampaging Recons running around the frontline waste one of the most valuable squads a team has. I'd rather have a Recon game where I kill 20 guys, delay their supply trucks, destroy supply drops and take down 15+ enemy spawns (garrisons & OPs) than getting a three-digit kill count without taking out a single spawn. Because I'd rather have fun and be useful to the team. It's not just him, though. Almost every HLL TH-camr who posts videos like "128 kills as sniper TROLOLOL" just brings in a slew of these players.
For anyone who doesn’t know, in HLL, there’s no hit marker. He edited it into the video. I enjoy the lack of hit marker. It gives you a realistic feeling of not knowing if you hit him or not. The only indicator is the “ding” sound of getting a headshot through the enemy’s helmet.
No offense but that's just wrong, if you listen closely as you hit someone there's a very distinct thunk sound on a body shot. Whether shooting through their cover or hitting them directly, and it's kind of broken for that reason.
Damn it. I was wondering the same. Tbh I love the realism but I’d at least like to have the satisfaction of knowing you got a kill. After all it still is a video game. It’s almost a little too exhausting at times.
@@_TheDarkHalf he's wrong, you get a loud metal ping if you headshot someone and distinct thuds if you bodyshot someone , so you'll definitely know, and it is indeed very satisfying
I just started playing it a lot again too however I’m not very good at it and I don’t really get kills. However I enjoy how cinematic it is there’s always people yelling for medics or explosions going on in the firefight.
Watching this reminds me of my grandfather stories, he talked about D day often and about how important it was we all remembered. He would talk about the Nazis and how they were always ambushing ready to attack from anywhere, they showed no mercy, they were all dark and cruel, the doors on the boats would open but it would be suicide almost, because mortars were scattered across the beach constantly laying down fire and machine gun nest, he was so vivid when he'd talk about he could describe it with so much detail. I wish I could have recorded a video of him recalling the war, but his favorite story was not even about fighting the one he told most often was how he had to change a tire on a jeep.
@@All4Randomness1 He was under german fire they were trying to make it to a convoy because something about reinforcing the supply route so he was stuck in a ditch being shot at by Germans and trying to change a tire he said he changes that tire so fast he probably broke a world record🤣
What I find amazing is that they just let you do this. So, you're playing a US offensive map, and the first point (Dog White) is literally on the beach. That's why you lost it so fast, and why it was such a target rich environment because before that point is taken there is only ONE spawn. BUT, once that point is taken the other two north and south spawns open up. I have personally punished snipers on that map by going north spawn with a Browning and flanking them. This means to stop me they must focus entirely on the north side of the map, and there are only TWO snipers on each team. So... either way the sniper is suppressed even if my KDR isn't high. But, that's not what happens. What happens is the sniper is so happy picking people off they don't see me coming up the north side of the map. That little hole you stuck your head out of? That's a machine gun nest. There are a lot of them. I run out the bipod on that and wait. Do not let snipers snipe on an offensive map if you are assaulting. You've got to hunt them down and keep pressure on them all the time. In Warfare it's a bit different, sometimes its best to just avoid them and leave them standing there with their dick in their hands.
@@WiZArdx4s Warfare is a specific game mode in Hell Let Loose. There are two modes: Offensive and Warfare. In offensive the assaulting side begins with no territory and has 30 minutes to capture a sector, and once captured the defenders cannot take it back. Once a sector is captured the timer resets to 30 minutes. In Warfare both teams start with half the map under their control with a center sector up for grabs. In Warfare game time is fixed and sectors can be re-captured, often changing hands multiple times before the game is over. The strategic calculus for each is different. In warfare there is no reason to go sniper hunting, unless you are trying to run a dedicated artillery squad and have the manpower to lock down that home sector. Otherwise, ignore them. They’ll slow you down and keep you from achieving objectives. That’s their goal, to suppress you. If a sniper is picking people off in the home sector and suppressing your artillery, sometimes the best thing to do is to just leave them there. A sniper with no targets just sitting there is a useless asset. In Offensive you cannot allow sniper the luxury of just picking people off. There is no going around them as an attacker. You need to deal with them. That’s the difference I am talking about.
I played Hell let lose and I made a friend named Jose. We fought together going up Normandy invading from the beach, and I was telling him “stay down man, stay down, we need reinforcements.” And he wanted to be a hero so he ran up and shot three men and died. I couldn’t find him after that. I told my grandpa who faught at D-Day and said he lost a friend the exact same way but his named was Charles.
I'm not one to virtue signal or tell anyone how to be... but honestly, joking about DDay is really poor taste. Tell your grandpa I said thank you. If indeed he really exists.
Most AAA games are generic and casual. Those people who come from COD would expect simple aiming, not calculating bullet trajectories and stuff and would cry the game is shit, when they don't hit the target from distance. Both type of games have their place. Good to see more realistic shooters.
1:54 You have three things going on; bullet drop, bullet travel, and a moving target. AS SOON as a bullet leaves the firearm, unless it has a BIT of an upward trajectory, the bullet will immediately start to slowly drop. To give you perspective, if you were shooting a firearm with like a 1m zero (meaning shoots straight ahead, not slightly upwards to 'arch' to a 50m or 100m or 200m or 300m target), and you fired a round at the EXACT moment that someone dropped a projectile at the same height as the rifle upon firing, and if the shooting range was TOTALLY flat... the bullet dropped at right-height and the bullet fired from the rifle would hit the ground at the SAME time except the bullet fired would be way off at the distance and the bullet dropped would be at the shooter's feet, pretty much. Gravity has an affect on bullets. So, while the target is moving, you're having to compensate for how high to aim to overcome the sights (by the way, the sights might be adjustable in Hell Let Loose, I don't remember, but if so, take advantage of that! The crosshair will physically move lower so that you don't have to worry about getting the 'elevation' correct, and the game doesn't have 'windage' I'm pretty sure, since wind drifts bullets side-to-side off of the point-of-aim (POA). But I digress. You also have to 'lead' the target, which means to aim ahead of them, but the amount of 'lead' is dependent on the target's speed and your distance from the target. Also, the target might suddenly stop, turn, slow down, speed up, and things like that can cause you to miss EVEN if you were holding JUST right. In short, at that distance, they had effectively dodged a bullet that would otherwise have been a hit, but totally by coincidence. In short... you are experiencing real-world long-range marksman fundamentals... except it's technically still at least a BIT easier than real-life. For one, you don't have to worry about your trigger-pull, which has a BIG impact on accuracy, although I guess arguably if you 'yanked' the trigger (meaning you AGGRESSIVELY hit the left mouse button) it could still potentially lead to a miss due to the movement of your hand. But also, and this one is important; no wind. Wind has an impact on accuracy, at least out to distance. In shorter ranges, not so much, pretty negligible, but if you're going out to like... 300-400m or more? Yeah, wind can fuck you up. Can be aiming PERFECTLY under NORMAL CONDITIONS but toss in some wind? Suddenly your bullet's off to the target's side and you'll just keep missing unless you correct for windage or until the wind dies down. Some good shooting though! Figured out pretty quick how to lead and how to hold high for longer shots if you can't actually adjust the sights (or don't know how). Love Hell Let Loose...
Actually the bullet rises as soon as it leaves the barrel. It travels in an arc. You compensate for this by adjusting your sites in yards. If your site is set at 150 yards then your head shot at 50 yards would be aiming at their neck..
@@RES1978 Yes, that is how firearms function, but I was explaining some basics of bullet drop. That is why I specified 'zeroed for about 1m,' meaning shooting perfectly straight ahead rather than at an arc which is caused by the rear sight being higher on the bore axis than the front sight. It is a fact that if you have a firearm pointing straight ahead and not at an arc, if you fire that bullet and likewise drop a bullet from your hand at the same time, if the range is TOTALLY flat, both bullets will hit the ground at the same time. This is why firearms arc their projectiles in the first place; to counter this gravitational bullet drop.
The best spot to be would be the nearby bushes. After a few shots, move from bush to bush to avoid triangulation, be sure to move while prone to minimize your signature and only take shots that you're sure to hit.
Hey man that bunker you were in right at the start of the video is my favourite MG position for defending the beach, you can mow down many people before you get spotted
Snipers are really supposed to be a part of the 2 man observation team, and be in communication with the commander, kills are a small part of their functionality.
When I play recon, there are games where me and my spotter end the game with like 10 kills....but we destroyed garrisons, ops, nodes and sometimes breaking artillery's balls....it's usually fun to see how (some) people thinks we played badly cause of low kills
@@fcdmfddcfy2388 CoD is definitely one of those games where you have people playing objective based modes just for kills. It gets old real fast and teams often don't function well because of it.
This is the best fps game going, had some epic fights and when you get a full squad that talks it’s just a masterpiece and considering it’s not a triple A game it pisses of so called triple A scooters
Checkout Post Scriptum. It has way less players than HLL but it is superior in many ways. Although it is more unforgiving than HLL so it's not for everyone.
Hey TBAG, on a scale of 1 to 10, how would u rate the gameplay in HLL. Me personally it’s a 6, if only the made transport across the map and levelling classes easier
The reasons you don't like it, is why HLL players play it. This game basically requires a dedicated player base to operate with the type of flow intended. If your not willing to do the basics, then your likely not willing to perform as a good squad lead, or a good commander, or even a useful member of the squad. All of these rolls really require time to be good at them.
@@evancreswell4314 yeah, I wanna put more time in, I’m normally ok as an officer, but yeah it’s just a long time to wait to get into combat, and if u die quickly it seems pointless
on console its a bit of a hit or miss. sometimes there is ZERO communications and sometimes the comms are very good. i respect the 'hardcore' aspect of the game (obviously thats the whole point) but there are objectively speaking some things that are just kinda crappy about it. for example: getting killed is very static without a sense of whats going. again, i get that its a hardcore shooter, but things like getting notified what killed you would go a long way. for example if you step on an AP mine you dont even know that.. you just explode out of nothing. also traversal on foot is hell if there are not spawn points so they could make it so that the walking speed increases when you are far away from an objective or something... you know things like that. the thing i hate the most tho, and this goes for games like insurgency sandstorm as well, is the controls. the deadzone is garbage, sens-curve is garbage, the X/Y-offset is garbage. its feels very awkward and clunky. otherwise, the whole design of the game is amazing. hope that answers you question a bit lol
@@TBAG yeah, I agree with you there, controls are slow. I have to say, I enjoy insurgency sandstorm a lot more, I’m on console and I find sandstorm a lot easier to play
Tbag, make sure to watch videos on the game, and make sure to watch guides about commanders and even squad leaders as that way you will learn the importance of their roles even without being one. Furthermore, an important thing to note is you should take a look at the other classes that are not the sniper and the MG all the time, try out support and try out engineer, maybe try out being a recon spotter for a sniper instead of being the sniper, sure it initially may be less content but with that learning comes experience and inevitably more fun
Yeah but he shouldnt JUST play the combat roles, because him playing the other classes or him giving some moments where he’s just planning strategies would give a way better feel of what the game is actuslly like, its not battlefield
Great game. My only issue is the running movement is a bit too slow. This is especially considering the average soldier back then really didn’t have too much weight on them.
Besides from the guns, helmet, grenades, shovel, ammunition etc running though ankle/knee high thick mud, yeah not much weight at all they should be like Olympic sprinters
gameplay is also nice, Hell let loose and Sqaud are my favorite war games atm.. and some say the graphics not good but i love them. Gives me a bit oldschool vibes but its still nice to look at feels like my old plays on Day of Defeat source
“Don’t mess this uuuup, Don’t mess up, Don’t meeess uuuup!” Immediately leaves behind his perfectly adequate cover, concealment, and high ground for that naked, ankle breaking, cliff of doom. All in the name of getting about 25 yards closer. And you’ve got to know that cliff side is catching every single piece of lead from all those (crap-shot, never shot a gun in their life until 3 weeks ago) freshly drafted soldier coming up the beach.
This game is a team game. Communication is a weapon in the game. Groups terrify me, but seeing people run around like call of duty is an easy pick-in. As long as communication and groups and team leaders are doing there job. The game is amazing
The one thing that keeps me from loving this come is how ridiculously slow you move in it. I get in real life carrying around a rifle and backpack slows you down, but not nearly to the extent it does in this game. It would be so much better if it had a movement system more like Tarkov, which I also feel is much more realistic system than in HLL. Like, come on, if someone is shooting at you, you're defiantly going to run faster then just a casual jog.
@@christiandruan I'm not saying it should be cod, you two brain celled dimwit, but should have a stamina system like in Tarkov or Squad, two other realistic shooters, as it is both more realistic and more fun.
I think the slower running speed is important for the game, as the maps are large, and emphasizing that just enough by making people run a bit slower will allow for better overall feel of the map, and at close quarters it makes it a lot less spam running or swing peeking
@@Traxlar A slower speed is fine for traversing, but a limited sprint would really benefit the game, as it allows to to get to cover and push people much more effectively. The movement is just scuffed in general, crouch running is basically the same speed as regular running, and the regular running speed is hardly faster than the walking speed.
If you haven't played it yet and you're looking for a realistic WW2 shooter that requires teamwork then this is it. Once you get deep into it it's a lot of fun. Using armor is addicting.
"Great position" even though the more downhill you go, the more high ground you lose. Plus on the side of a hill facing the enemy and erratically moving around, you're asking to be spotted
Hey, TBAG. I love your videos and enjoy watching each one a lot, as they are hilarious, and also show me what the games you play are actually usually like (on console), and as a result you are my main go-to when checking out a game. I rarely write in the comments, but I have decided to bring a very interesting game coming out in a few days called Isonzo to your attention. This is a WW1 shooter in Italy (imagine Monte Grappa) that I can literally describe as the perfect mix between BF1 and Hell Let Loose, and it will be on console as well. BF1 because its gonna be very easy to learn and forgiving to players, and HLL because it has several of the teamwork and realism vibes that HLL has (minus the infuriating learning curve and long respawn timers everyone has to go through). Like it says in the title, HLL chose Realism, BF1 chose Gameplay. But Isonzo will choose both when it comes out. Also, you can customize your mustache in this game, and no other shooter has that (I think). All in all, I can tell this game will be straight up your alley, and I heavily believe you will enjoy playing it. Its also not too expensive at around 30$/€. But one more thing to tell is that its made by what used to be a very small group of indie devs, so don't expect ultra 4K graphics like in BF1 or HLL, but they should still be really good anyway.
yea but you can say the same thing about tannenberg (eastern front) and verdun (western front) those 3 games are made by the same people and I own 2 of them except isonzo
@@turturek69 Precisely. However, Isonzo seems to be incredibly different from the former in a great way, as they have completely reworked every broken and barely working features into much more smooth and fluid mechanics (animations and AI bots for example look way better). Not to mention that the ingame avatars are now fully customizable. Literally everything in Isonzo is better than it was in Ver/Tan. Id say that this is definitely worth checking out for TBAG, as the previous games aren't really great compared to other FPS games on his channel.
This game is so realistic that bullets will bounce off of the air. My grandpop was a tank driver in WWII and he said rubber banding was the main issue, he also said that his tank could drive over trees but a bush could flip him over.
![TBAG [Epic Gaming]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_lULBJjk_YS2vOOUnPLWl5A3DtOt4UlrJuylHgchgst-fU=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
“Hopefully this guy will protect me”- seconds later he walks over a mine and turns into a meat shield.
He did protect him
How much for a Shoutout ?
Honor him. 🫡🫡🫡
Still saved him
what can we say, dead man walking.
It's rough to imagine how someone probably experienced 3:02 POV in real life during the war. Poof, the life of the person in front of you gone just like that...
Operation Neptune is really rough to think about overall. It's considered a massive success, even though the strategy was mainly to just overwhelm the Germans' defense of the beach. Yeah there was some intel and misdirection involved, too, but at the end of the day, hundreds (actually thousands) of young men lost their lives doing nothing more than taking up a few moments of a German's aim. And that was the whole point. Fucking unreal.
That happens in this game a lot. Your running along with a friendly player and then all of a sudden they take a tank shell to the face
@@tmwombocombo4115 Honestly the moment that made me fall in love with this game went like that. I was in a truck full of people and we were dicking around on our way to obj. I hop out to drop supplies for the commander to build a garri and we're all still bullshitting back and forth while they pull around the corner to try and blitz the next capture area... fucking mid word the truck just fucking explodes. And me and the commander wind up playing cat and mouse against a scout tank and recon squad for close to fifteen minutes while our team got it's shit together.
@@Mushu33 yeah man. That is something I think about anytime I think of those beach invasions. Hell just about any beach invasion.
More than probably I’d think
8:28 Yup, that's probably the most realistic battle simulation ever to happen in this entire game, except for the fact that you actually saw it before being obliterated.
It would be more realistic if it broke down 20 miles behind the front line, and wouldn’t return to service until months later because it needs very specific parts
Considering it’s a tiger
@@podomuss lmfao that’s military grade for ya
@@podomuss I know this isn't technically contesting what you said, but I wanna dispel the "hee hoo bad transmission" myth. The Tiger was actually pretty reliable compared to other tanks of it's size. The issue was the Germans didn't give their crews enough spare parts so they couldn't do anything if it *did* break down unlike the Allies. It was a logistical failure, not an engineering one.
@@personhuman2239 Logistics win wars. Apparently the Nazis were too stupid to realize that. I don’t care how many Wunder Weapons you have, you’re not gonna win if you can’t produce them, transport them, and use them efficiently
T-34’s and Sherman’s were just better tanks, because they were easy to produce, and easy to fix up.
The Allies knew the importance of logistics, Adolph Shitler and his cronies clearly didn’t, as they decided to make everything a logistical nightmare
Weren’t there only three tigers ever actually deployed in WWII, and all of them were in France?
HLL is way different on PC. I would say 80% of people have mics & communicate, & people tend to do call outs/etc a lot. However, when they have a free weekend on PC for this game it tends to be frustrating playing with full servers of people who don’t know to place garrisons & do call outs. It’s cool seeing the community of this game be so big for such a “brutal” FPS
I’m pretty sure the servers are cross platform. On my Xbox I can choose if I want console only or cross platform. And 80% of the players of this game are PC, so….. your server are my server lol.
@@Warthog42069 Xbox only has cross platform with PlayStation. It’s not the same game, PC is always 2-3 updates ahead. Some recent updates in this game have changed the gameplay drastically. Also on PC you play on 3rd party servers 90% of the time, which opens the door to servers having rules & people getting booted out of them for malicious behavior.
@@mcdhensleyable I actually didn’t know that. Now that you mention it I did wonder why they said the PC version only, has the Russian campaigns in the past. I just assumed it was a programming thing for consoles since they were a small team lol.
It's ass on console. No mouse n key support. Only 1080p60. No server menu. It's bad and I have it
@@houseofchinn6112 I have a 10600k/3070ti combo & I’m getting on average 50-75 fps on most maps. I’m also playing on 1440 ultra. However, this game isn’t optimized the best & some maps have poor performance
8:28 and that, ladies and gentlemen, is what should've happened in the movie "fury". Pure realism.
people miss sometimes 🤷♂️
The reason you won’t have heard any comms as the sniper is because the spotter is the only role in the recon squad that gets access to the command chat. The other squads could have been quite chatty but you’d never have known
But where is his spotter? I believe he created a locked squad and played solo sniper...
Edit:
In the bottom left you can see that he is the only one in his squad as a sniper. He seems to be purposefully playing as a lone wolf...
@@joniskates it's not possible. You can't close the squad if you are a sniper
@@joniskates if it was a locked squad, he had to have requested for a locked squad first and the spotter simply left, but considering he asked a random person to join it, it was likely open
JAJAJAJAJ
It’s nice to see T-Bag playing this game again, especially seeing as I’m a member of a big console clan for it. You remind me of myself when I was starting out in this game T-bag, just keep playing trust me, you’ll get better every hour you put in. It didn’t take me more than a month to learn the ins and outs of the game.
I'm considering buying this, can you tell me what Clan y'all are? PS4.
Clans are gey
They a big clan on Xbox called VOID
Klan kids
@@camelthegamer7165 Surely, I’m part of a clan called the “1ST. Infantry Division”. We’ve got lots of cool people in there, they’re pretty nice. If you buy the game, send me your Discord and I shots you an invite if you want to join.
I really recommend at least reporting locations of enemies to your team. It really helps the team and it doesn't take alot of effort. This is a team game where communication is absolutely essential and you can't just rely on others to give information to you. You need to pass the information you collected for the good of your team.
Edit: And dont go killing enemies haphazardly. sometimes a greater opportunity may arise when you wait patiently in the right situations.
More of this pls ^
Agreed, however note he was the sniper and that's the spotters job as they have access to the command chat, and can place SL marks on the map. I'm pretty sure his squad was unlocked
Its not just the spotter, as the sniper has ways of communicating information to the spotter that the spotter may not have noticed, he’s treating hell let loose more like a battlefield FPS instead of communicating
@@Traxlar dude let the man play the game how he wants. He’s obviously bringing a lot of attention to this game
@@TheCaesarion Yes, he is. And he's also giving newbies the impression of playing the game in a way that is very detrimental to the whole team. Because kills don't mean shit if you can't lock down and destroy enemy spawns. Because rampaging Recons running around the frontline waste one of the most valuable squads a team has.
I'd rather have a Recon game where I kill 20 guys, delay their supply trucks, destroy supply drops and take down 15+ enemy spawns (garrisons & OPs) than getting a three-digit kill count without taking out a single spawn. Because I'd rather have fun and be useful to the team.
It's not just him, though. Almost every HLL TH-camr who posts videos like "128 kills as sniper TROLOLOL" just brings in a slew of these players.
For anyone who doesn’t know, in HLL, there’s no hit marker. He edited it into the video. I enjoy the lack of hit marker. It gives you a realistic feeling of not knowing if you hit him or not. The only indicator is the “ding” sound of getting a headshot through the enemy’s helmet.
No offense but that's just wrong, if you listen closely as you hit someone there's a very distinct thunk sound on a body shot. Whether shooting through their cover or hitting them directly, and it's kind of broken for that reason.
Damn it. I was wondering the same. Tbh I love the realism but I’d at least like to have the satisfaction of knowing you got a kill. After all it still is a video game. It’s almost a little too exhausting at times.
@@_TheDarkHalf he's wrong, you get a loud metal ping if you headshot someone and distinct thuds if you bodyshot someone , so you'll definitely know, and it is indeed very satisfying
@jessangel2009 you'll hear what sounds like a BB hitting a loose article of clothing on you, best way to describe it
if you hit someone on the head it makes a helmet ping@@_TheDarkHalf
Snipers in 1942: YO THAT WAS A NASTY HEADSHOT 😔
Tbag replaying those events: YO THAT WAS A NASTY HEADSHOT😃🤩😃
Hell Let Loose is my favorite game lately, just hit rank 90. It's a brutal and unforgiving game, but fuck me is it fun as hell.
I just started playing it a lot again too however I’m not very good at it and I don’t really get kills. However I enjoy how cinematic it is there’s always people yelling for medics or explosions going on in the firefight.
@@VitoScaletta1951 I like that you can still be helpful just by spotting or driving...
@@VitoScaletta1951 literally me bro, i get like 2-4 kills a game LOL but I just enjoy shooting at where i think they are, and living the cinematics
Sorry but I don't want to fouck u
If you think this game is brutal you haven't played Post Scriptum
How is nobody mentioning how fricking perfect that transition from sniping to tank was? :D
Bruh fr💀
📠
Watching this reminds me of my grandfather stories, he talked about D day often and about how important it was we all remembered.
He would talk about the Nazis and how they were always ambushing ready to attack from anywhere, they showed no mercy, they were all dark and cruel, the doors on the boats would open but it would be suicide almost, because mortars were scattered across the beach constantly laying down fire and machine gun nest, he was so vivid when he'd talk about he could describe it with so much detail.
I wish I could have recorded a video of him recalling the war, but his favorite story was not even about fighting the one he told most often was how he had to change a tire on a jeep.
What was the Jeep story? I'm intrigued.
@@All4Randomness1 .
@@All4Randomness1
He was under german fire they were trying to make it to a convoy because something about reinforcing the supply route so he was stuck in a ditch being shot at by Germans and trying to change a tire he said he changes that tire so fast he probably broke a world record🤣
@@NCR-RANGER-223 godly
@@NCR-RANGER-223 Much respect to this man, this shits fucked up and shouldn't need to happen
What I find amazing is that they just let you do this.
So, you're playing a US offensive map, and the first point (Dog White) is literally on the beach. That's why you lost it so fast, and why it was such a target rich environment because before that point is taken there is only ONE spawn. BUT, once that point is taken the other two north and south spawns open up. I have personally punished snipers on that map by going north spawn with a Browning and flanking them. This means to stop me they must focus entirely on the north side of the map, and there are only TWO snipers on each team. So... either way the sniper is suppressed even if my KDR isn't high.
But, that's not what happens.
What happens is the sniper is so happy picking people off they don't see me coming up the north side of the map. That little hole you stuck your head out of? That's a machine gun nest. There are a lot of them. I run out the bipod on that and wait.
Do not let snipers snipe on an offensive map if you are assaulting. You've got to hunt them down and keep pressure on them all the time. In Warfare it's a bit different, sometimes its best to just avoid them and leave them standing there with their dick in their hands.
Facts
"Its warfare. Its different"?? What are you thinking people are confusing this for? Tennis?
@@WiZArdx4s Warfare is a specific game mode in Hell Let Loose.
There are two modes: Offensive and Warfare.
In offensive the assaulting side begins with no territory and has 30 minutes to capture a sector, and once captured the defenders cannot take it back. Once a sector is captured the timer resets to 30 minutes.
In Warfare both teams start with half the map under their control with a center sector up for grabs. In Warfare game time is fixed and sectors can be re-captured, often changing hands multiple times before the game is over.
The strategic calculus for each is different.
In warfare there is no reason to go sniper hunting, unless you are trying to run a dedicated artillery squad and have the manpower to lock down that home sector. Otherwise, ignore them. They’ll slow you down and keep you from achieving objectives. That’s their goal, to suppress you. If a sniper is picking people off in the home sector and suppressing your artillery, sometimes the best thing to do is to just leave them there. A sniper with no targets just sitting there is a useless asset.
In Offensive you cannot allow sniper the luxury of just picking people off. There is no going around them as an attacker. You need to deal with them.
That’s the difference I am talking about.
You play on Xbox?
@@MenteMaestra91 PC
9:20 " I'm going to go a bit further if you guys don't mind ? " instantly blows up lol.
*Wish me Luc-....... *
When he walked straight forward into the open I was like "hmm that seems like a good way to get sho-"
5:00 Do you know the 4 gun safety rule? You're breaking 3 of them.
yeah, it's a game. Not much this dude can do about it.
@@monochromatic9601 But he's endangering innocent pixels.
@@monochromatic9601 Well, HLL does have friendly fire
I played Hell let lose and I made a friend named Jose. We fought together going up Normandy invading from the beach, and I was telling him “stay down man, stay down, we need reinforcements.” And he wanted to be a hero so he ran up and shot three men and died. I couldn’t find him after that. I told my grandpa who faught at D-Day and said he lost a friend the exact same way but his named was Charles.
True story tho?
@@lewiskunst1089 prob not
I'm not one to virtue signal or tell anyone how to be... but honestly, joking about DDay is really poor taste.
Tell your grandpa I said thank you. If indeed he really exists.
This isn't funny. It's actually disgusting.
lmfao
"I'm sure he'll protect me, no problem"
Yeah, he protected him by becoming a meat shield
This game deserves more love. So much better then other AAA titles currently out. I play HLL all the time.
which game is this bro
@@akashpathave8985 hell let loose maybe
Only game I play
Most AAA games are generic and casual. Those people who come from COD would expect simple aiming, not calculating bullet trajectories and stuff and would cry the game is shit, when they don't hit the target from distance.
Both type of games have their place. Good to see more realistic shooters.
@ bro it isn’t the aiming that’s casual, it’s the fact people complain it’s a running simulator
These videos about Hell Let Loose are so good, pls continue to post this type of content
@@adler761 ......
It’s hard to watch tbag tho ngl, he’s got a shit ton to learn
1:54
You have three things going on; bullet drop, bullet travel, and a moving target. AS SOON as a bullet leaves the firearm, unless it has a BIT of an upward trajectory, the bullet will immediately start to slowly drop. To give you perspective, if you were shooting a firearm with like a 1m zero (meaning shoots straight ahead, not slightly upwards to 'arch' to a 50m or 100m or 200m or 300m target), and you fired a round at the EXACT moment that someone dropped a projectile at the same height as the rifle upon firing, and if the shooting range was TOTALLY flat... the bullet dropped at right-height and the bullet fired from the rifle would hit the ground at the SAME time except the bullet fired would be way off at the distance and the bullet dropped would be at the shooter's feet, pretty much. Gravity has an affect on bullets.
So, while the target is moving, you're having to compensate for how high to aim to overcome the sights (by the way, the sights might be adjustable in Hell Let Loose, I don't remember, but if so, take advantage of that! The crosshair will physically move lower so that you don't have to worry about getting the 'elevation' correct, and the game doesn't have 'windage' I'm pretty sure, since wind drifts bullets side-to-side off of the point-of-aim (POA). But I digress. You also have to 'lead' the target, which means to aim ahead of them, but the amount of 'lead' is dependent on the target's speed and your distance from the target. Also, the target might suddenly stop, turn, slow down, speed up, and things like that can cause you to miss EVEN if you were holding JUST right. In short, at that distance, they had effectively dodged a bullet that would otherwise have been a hit, but totally by coincidence.
In short... you are experiencing real-world long-range marksman fundamentals... except it's technically still at least a BIT easier than real-life. For one, you don't have to worry about your trigger-pull, which has a BIG impact on accuracy, although I guess arguably if you 'yanked' the trigger (meaning you AGGRESSIVELY hit the left mouse button) it could still potentially lead to a miss due to the movement of your hand. But also, and this one is important; no wind. Wind has an impact on accuracy, at least out to distance. In shorter ranges, not so much, pretty negligible, but if you're going out to like... 300-400m or more? Yeah, wind can fuck you up. Can be aiming PERFECTLY under NORMAL CONDITIONS but toss in some wind? Suddenly your bullet's off to the target's side and you'll just keep missing unless you correct for windage or until the wind dies down.
Some good shooting though! Figured out pretty quick how to lead and how to hold high for longer shots if you can't actually adjust the sights (or don't know how). Love Hell Let Loose...
Actually the bullet rises as soon as it leaves the barrel. It travels in an arc. You compensate for this by adjusting your sites in yards. If your site is set at 150 yards then your head shot at 50 yards would be aiming at their neck..
Guy above me understands bullet ballistics.
@@RES1978 lol yeah I've zeroed plenty of rifles, I got a good chuckle from his (POA) term instead of MOA or MRAD lol
@@RES1978
Yes, that is how firearms function, but I was explaining some basics of bullet drop. That is why I specified 'zeroed for about 1m,' meaning shooting perfectly straight ahead rather than at an arc which is caused by the rear sight being higher on the bore axis than the front sight.
It is a fact that if you have a firearm pointing straight ahead and not at an arc, if you fire that bullet and likewise drop a bullet from your hand at the same time, if the range is TOTALLY flat, both bullets will hit the ground at the same time. This is why firearms arc their projectiles in the first place; to counter this gravitational bullet drop.
@@normanmccollum6082 Correct. Bullets do not own their own "rise". If you elevate the barrel, the bullets rise and arc.
The best spot to be would be the nearby bushes. After a few shots, move from bush to bush to avoid triangulation, be sure to move while prone to minimize your signature and only take shots that you're sure to hit.
2:43 That karma moment was just pefect hahaha
tbh you should open the voice chat its so funny sometimes to here their reactions, war screams etc
They really do I would love to hear em
“okay maybe this one will actually be realistic”
15 seconds in: *scaling a cliff face at sprint speed*
that music in the background is giving me real Splinter Cell nostalgia
7:18 well that was an unexpected transition lol
I really appreciate the OG Splinter Cell music in the background. That game definitely holds a special place in my heart.
Thank God I was not the only one who noticed it ;)
Hey man that bunker you were in right at the start of the video is my favourite MG position for defending the beach, you can mow down many people before you get spotted
"This game chose realism over gameplay"
Runs along an unwalkable cliffside like its nothing within the first 30 seconds
it never ceases to amaze me that the games still yet have manage to capture the true horror of what soldiers of the world wars had to go through.
"You have such an amazing position here, don't move"
*_pushes the Frontlines with a sniper amyways_*
Snipers are really supposed to be a part of the 2 man observation team, and be in communication with the commander, kills are a small part of their functionality.
When I play recon, there are games where me and my spotter end the game with like 10 kills....but we destroyed garrisons, ops, nodes and sometimes breaking artillery's balls....it's usually fun to see how (some) people thinks we played badly cause of low kills
@@alessandromauri5407 call of duty was a disaster for the human race
@@fcdmfddcfy2388 CoD is definitely one of those games where you have people playing objective based modes just for kills. It gets old real fast and teams often don't function well because of it.
@@fcdmfddcfy2388 remember 360 no scope
Sheer realism over everything ,thats how it should be , truly and awesome game
This game isn’t entirely realistic compared to post scriptum or arma, it’s a middle ground
The 'pill box thing' at 3:43 could be a 'Tobruk' bunker (or 'ringstand' in German), an mg position.
"This guy will protect me"
The guy 10 seconds later: Mission Accomplished
gunplay is a little out, movement feels a bit slow, traversing can be tedious. but this is hands down one of the best shooters ever made.
My great grandfather would rise from the grave if he saw me playing sniper on a dday map
This is the best fps game going, had some epic fights and when you get a full squad that talks it’s just a masterpiece and considering it’s not a triple A game it pisses of so called triple A scooters
What's the name of this game?
Checkout Post Scriptum. It has way less players than HLL but it is superior in many ways. Although it is more unforgiving than HLL so it's not for everyone.
@@scl9671 so basically Post Scriptum is Arma3 but in WW2?
I love games where, when you shoot people, they die. In cod you can pepper someone with a lmg and theyll be close to dead but run away
It’s always nice to see Tbag upload 😃
I can only imagine a grandfather who was a soldier inthe 80s and theres his grandson tryin to play this game with him
Grandfather would enjoy it. Grandson would ask questions and lessons would be learned in an engaging envoriment.
Ww2 was in the 40s not the 80s wtf lmao
Hey TBAG, on a scale of 1 to 10, how would u rate the gameplay in HLL. Me personally it’s a 6, if only the made transport across the map and levelling classes easier
The reasons you don't like it, is why HLL players play it. This game basically requires a dedicated player base to operate with the type of flow intended. If your not willing to do the basics, then your likely not willing to perform as a good squad lead, or a good commander, or even a useful member of the squad. All of these rolls really require time to be good at them.
@@evancreswell4314 yeah, I wanna put more time in, I’m normally ok as an officer, but yeah it’s just a long time to wait to get into combat, and if u die quickly it seems pointless
on console its a bit of a hit or miss. sometimes there is ZERO communications and sometimes the comms are very good. i respect the 'hardcore' aspect of the game (obviously thats the whole point) but there are objectively speaking some things that are just kinda crappy about it. for example: getting killed is very static without a sense of whats going. again, i get that its a hardcore shooter, but things like getting notified what killed you would go a long way. for example if you step on an AP mine you dont even know that.. you just explode out of nothing. also traversal on foot is hell if there are not spawn points so they could make it so that the walking speed increases when you are far away from an objective or something... you know things like that. the thing i hate the most tho, and this goes for games like insurgency sandstorm as well, is the controls. the deadzone is garbage, sens-curve is garbage, the X/Y-offset is garbage. its feels very awkward and clunky. otherwise, the whole design of the game is amazing. hope that answers you question a bit lol
@@TBAG yeah, I agree with you there, controls are slow. I have to say, I enjoy insurgency sandstorm a lot more, I’m on console and I find sandstorm a lot easier to play
What are you 'transporting' for should be the question?
i like how you have the splinter cell music quietly in the background :D
Tbag, make sure to watch videos on the game, and make sure to watch guides about commanders and even squad leaders as that way you will learn the importance of their roles even without being one. Furthermore, an important thing to note is you should take a look at the other classes that are not the sniper and the MG all the time, try out support and try out engineer, maybe try out being a recon spotter for a sniper instead of being the sniper, sure it initially may be less content but with that learning comes experience and inevitably more fun
Maybe he does play them on his own but watching people build the whole game wouldnt really make the same quality content
Yeah but he shouldnt JUST play the combat roles, because him playing the other classes or him giving some moments where he’s just planning strategies would give a way better feel of what the game is actuslly like, its not battlefield
So real that I saw my Great Grandpa in this Video
The Realism is what makes it fun tbh, especially when you get barraged by artillery.
The headshot ding is like a shot of concentrated dopamine straight into my brain.
Love this guy❤️
This guy is like a way less obnoxious Zanny. I love it.
No, he's obnoxious
petition for TBAG to rank every tree in Bf1
The fact this guy uses the splinter cell 1 music deserves a subscribe, thanks for nostalgia
You should also try Post Scriptum, pretty realistic and fun too
6:29 I was waiting for you to say "Why are you running? WHY ARE YOU RUNNING?"
Great game. My only issue is the running movement is a bit too slow. This is especially considering the average soldier back then really didn’t have too much weight on them.
Besides from the guns, helmet, grenades, shovel, ammunition etc running though ankle/knee high thick mud, yeah not much weight at all they should be like Olympic sprinters
@@TheHoneyBadger12 thats what he meant so thanks for answering
@@TheHoneyBadger12 i mean if you wasn't someone with an MG, you really didn't had too much weight on, especially in 1944
Famous last word said by tbag
"Infront of us there is a"
gameplay is also nice, Hell let loose and Sqaud are my favorite war games atm.. and some say the graphics not good but i love them. Gives me a bit oldschool vibes but its still nice to look at feels like my old plays on Day of Defeat source
“Don’t mess this uuuup, Don’t mess up, Don’t meeess uuuup!” Immediately leaves behind his perfectly adequate cover, concealment, and high ground for that naked, ankle breaking, cliff of doom. All in the name of getting about 25 yards closer. And you’ve got to know that cliff side is catching every single piece of lead from all those (crap-shot, never shot a gun in their life until 3 weeks ago) freshly drafted soldier coming up the beach.
I would love to play this but my computer can't run it, massive sadge
Great to hear the soundtrack from Splinter Cell once again, and funny to hear it in a WWII game lol.
This is by far the best WW2 sim ever. I was born on June 6th so you know that map is one of my favorites.
that lead shot at 2:43 taking the driver out was DIRTYYYYYY 💨
Post Scriptum is better for communication and team play. And a way better logistic system.
3:44 its called a "Tobruk" by soldiers. Not sure of the military resignation.
You're making me want to reinstall it on series s, just so I can uninstall it again in a few weeks. It's so infuriating but the highs are so good.
11:02 even it's flat ground, you can stuck for sure... Worst nightmare in this game, which never ends..
This game is a team game. Communication is a weapon in the game. Groups terrify me, but seeing people run around like call of duty is an easy pick-in. As long as communication and groups and team leaders are doing there job. The game is amazing
Whats the name of this game?
@@kalstonii hell let loose
3:00 war is crazy. Here one second and gone the next. This game looks fantastic!
So cool to play as the good guys in a game for once
The what…
@@marcus8647 GOOD GUYS
XD that beep on the explosion XD, one time on new year one explode near and was like that, a long beep in the ears for many seconds :,D
Hey, Tbag, you know you should really also try enlisted it's pretty fun and realistic too, even though it's a bit less realistic than hell let loose
he should
Your background music blasted me back to my to childhood lol
The one thing that keeps me from loving this come is how ridiculously slow you move in it. I get in real life carrying around a rifle and backpack slows you down, but not nearly to the extent it does in this game. It would be so much better if it had a movement system more like Tarkov, which I also feel is much more realistic system than in HLL. Like, come on, if someone is shooting at you, you're defiantly going to run faster then just a casual jog.
Go play cod then and jump around like it’s fortnite
@@christiandruan I'm not saying it should be cod, you two brain celled dimwit, but should have a stamina system like in Tarkov or Squad, two other realistic shooters, as it is both more realistic and more fun.
@@christiandruan yo das crazy but who tf asked you?
I think the slower running speed is important for the game, as the maps are large, and emphasizing that just enough by making people run a bit slower will allow for better overall feel of the map, and at close quarters it makes it a lot less spam running or swing peeking
@@Traxlar A slower speed is fine for traversing, but a limited sprint would really benefit the game, as it allows to to get to cover and push people much more effectively. The movement is just scuffed in general, crouch running is basically the same speed as regular running, and the regular running speed is hardly faster than the walking speed.
That was a very nice shot on that truck driver
I’m gonna follow this guy, I’m sure he will protect me no problem!
‘20 steps later gets both his legs blown off’
Protected you pretty good bro lmao
If you haven't played it yet and you're looking for a realistic WW2 shooter that requires teamwork then this is it. Once you get deep into it it's a lot of fun. Using armor is addicting.
that switch to the tank was smooth lmao
That is a cool-looking game, how did I never hear about it???
Title: game chooses realism over gampley
First 20seconds of video: me running sideways over a sheer cliff edge
I love you TBAG
"I'm sure he'll protect me"
Classic
Hey man, the PC experience of this game is a lot better for sure, a lot more people communicate than on PC.
Worst to best bfv end of round themes when
I have never seen this channel or this game but that was a great video.
"I saw one over there. I missed because I am an Idiot"
- unknown german soldier, D-Day diaries, June 06,1944
"If he sees me im dead," next second he opens fire
2:42 so that’s what happened to my dad when he went to get milk 0_o
"I'm sure he will protect me." Well, he did.
He was in front of you. Now he is on the front of you.
5:19 Why do I hear a tank coming? Because there is a tank coming in.
-Tbag 2022
This was the inner monologue in some soldiers head on that day....
"Great position" even though the more downhill you go, the more high ground you lose. Plus on the side of a hill facing the enemy and erratically moving around, you're asking to be spotted
Hey, TBAG. I love your videos and enjoy watching each one a lot, as they are hilarious, and also show me what the games you play are actually usually like (on console), and as a result you are my main go-to when checking out a game.
I rarely write in the comments, but I have decided to bring a very interesting game coming out in a few days called Isonzo to your attention. This is a WW1 shooter in Italy (imagine Monte Grappa) that I can literally describe as the perfect mix between BF1 and Hell Let Loose, and it will be on console as well. BF1 because its gonna be very easy to learn and forgiving to players, and HLL because it has several of the teamwork and realism vibes that HLL has (minus the infuriating learning curve and long respawn timers everyone has to go through). Like it says in the title, HLL chose Realism, BF1 chose Gameplay. But Isonzo will choose both when it comes out.
Also, you can customize your mustache in this game, and no other shooter has that (I think). All in all, I can tell this game will be straight up your alley, and I heavily believe you will enjoy playing it.
Its also not too expensive at around 30$/€. But one more thing to tell is that its made by what used to be a very small group of indie devs, so don't expect ultra 4K graphics like in BF1 or HLL, but they should still be really good anyway.
yea but you can say the same thing about tannenberg (eastern front) and verdun (western front)
those 3 games are made by the same people and I own 2 of them except isonzo
@@turturek69 Precisely. However, Isonzo seems to be incredibly different from the former in a great way, as they have completely reworked every broken and barely working features into much more smooth and fluid mechanics (animations and AI bots for example look way better). Not to mention that the ingame avatars are now fully customizable. Literally everything in Isonzo is better than it was in Ver/Tan. Id say that this is definitely worth checking out for TBAG, as the previous games aren't really great compared to other FPS games on his channel.
thank you for the kind words !!
as for Isonzo... be sure to enable notifications on the channel and keep an eye out for Tuesday ;)
@@TBAG Alright, sure 👍. Just dont get the Battlefield curse, and all should be good.
This game is so realistic that bullets will bounce off of the air. My grandpop was a tank driver in WWII and he said rubber banding was the main issue, he also said that his tank could drive over trees but a bush could flip him over.
(sees Tiger tank)
"Right in front of us there's a--" (dead)
Accurate XD
Ur my favorite yutuber
!!
I love ur Kontent !
Keep it up
Bro the music in the vid gave me goosebumps awesome choice with splinter cell soundtrack
damn you actually recognized it! good ears ;)
@@TBAG i used to play the first splinter cell game often on my ps2 back then one of my Favorit game series of all time cant unhear it 😂🔥
3:05
Anyone who experienced that probably got scarred for life
9:18 "wish me luck" famous last words
"i see somebody over there" could be improved to "enemy at 180"