*Please read before commenting* I've been getting a lot of great and insightful comments, so to everyone being civil, props to you. That said, I made a follow-up video addressing a few of the criticisms because this video really needed more time in the oven: th-cam.com/video/lVhHddtPY_A/w-d-xo.html Now I'll address a few smaller things I've been seeing: "You were way too aggressive towards Kuro" You're right. Even though I said multiple times that I respect Kuro and have no beef with him, my tone was actively saying the opposite. I won't excuse it. I will take the L. "Isn't Goku vs Superman more hated?" You could argue that its impact is bigger since it literally spawned the existence of Death Battle debunk videos, and they even have more dislikes (even if it's by virtue of having way more views), but in terms of like-dislike ratios, Ben vs GL's is technically worse, currently having a 56% ratio as opposed to the other episodes having at least 90k more likes when compared to their dislikes. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I can definitely see that. I'll accept buying into clickbait, though, as I did want that snazzy title. "Hal going back in time to kill Ben is such a low blow, especially since it was Kid Ben when it should've been Teen Ben" Again, I'm right there with you. However, the reason why I didn't address it is that they didn't want to have a third "explosion death" in a row and wanted to go with something more creative for once, so I chose to base my criticisms around that and what it should've looked like. Then again, an explosion death probably should've been used regardless, but whatever. As for Teen Ben, refer to what I said about the available sprites. Now for a couple of other points: 1. I agree that the ending with Hal going back in time would not actually work. The only reason I didn't mention it in the video is because I forgot to bring it up. My b. I've also gotten comments from people saying that it's a low blow. That's also something I can agree with. 2. Just in case I need to mention this, too, I have nothing against Death Battle debunks. When I say "it's unfair to criticize the episode for outside factors", that's only in the context of reviewing the full episode. Debunks are meant to tackle the research and arguments that Death Battle is using and doesn't take any other aspect of the episode into account (unless if they mention how the animation contradicts a point they made in the conclusion), so on that front, it's fair to use outside factors. I feel like I should've made a distinction between reviewing an episode and debunking it, and I didn't think about it until the last minute, but I had no time to work it in the video somewhere. Anyways, links that I mentioned earlier. Check these out to get a better understanding of the matchup: Ben vs Hal G1 prediction blog: g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2019/05/death-battle-predictions-ben-10-vs.html Ben vs Hal analysis by Spider Pidge: www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057 Kuro's Alien X video: th-cam.com/video/_88RUVr9WaM/w-d-xo.html Other links: Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Q&A: th-cam.com/video/SQujpsgd428/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D How Ben Wins Without Alien X by Kuro: th-cam.com/video/i3meGRifraM/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Kuro's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern analysis: th-cam.com/video/f-jkS1zu5Cg/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Ben vs Hal Q&A Response by Kuro: th-cam.com/video/nCN6fZZQ-cc/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Nemesis Bloodryche's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Review: th-cam.com/video/1ppVbqezvSY/w-d-xo.html
I read all of the information on 28:44 and it all seems agreeable since I have seen all of the seasons debunked videos. (also to forgot to sub after seeing all of the death battle debunked's my bad. putting this in my comment to tell you that I have subbed to you.)
if i may? the time travel thing mostly likely WOULD work based on in series ben 10 rules. two of his villains have used it against him (one in the show, and one in the comics) and even with clockwork's powers, ben couldn't tell the difference between someone being vaporised and someone being sent back in time. in a less lethal capacity, ben's altered his own present at least twice onscreen.
I have a question about the bit where you showed the reddit post about Morganna. Did you actually pay to have that video advertised, or did someone edit that image to slander you?
Not only did Ben lose, he died in the exact 1 way that would be IMPOSSIBLE to use against him. Alien X can follow Time Waves from Time travel, similar to how Flash can follow Time Travelers, and Hal using a giant pair of scissors was something Vilgax tried EXACTLY and the Omnitrix prevents SPECIFICALLY.
@@Vindication1134The series doesn't give a definitive answer on what doesn't constitute a threat to Ben, besides obviously things that have zero chance of killing him. However, the Omnitrix often acts in a way that seems like it has intent, and understands the current intent of outside forces (in writing terms it's a limited but powerful form of plot armor); which is why Vilgax was using a specific machine to remove the watch without actually providing a deadly threat to Ben the moment it would have been removed, and only planned on harming Ben after. Therefore Green lantern could have been amputated, but he also would need to intend to stop the bleeding. So I do think there's ways green lantern could have won and honestly I can't even be bothered to be mad at who wins in the end. What did bother me was that it was obviously clear that both parties definitely did not fight to the full extent of their abilities, and the fight ended with a cheap shot that was easily preventable by Ben. Be it that the either Alien X followed Hal, or that the Omnitrix; sensing Ben's distress at something about to cut off his arm, assumes deadly force is about to be inflicted and turns Ben into an Alien that can either be alright without an arm; like Swampfire, or is too durable to cut. I can accept that they were limited by time and resources when it came to actually showing what a full on fight between the two would look like, but don't make the ending something that can be disproved by two minutes of research.
Simply reading Alien X's wiki powers explain why everyone hated the ending. "Alien X can survive a timeline destruction" meaning even if he killed young Ben. The future Ben as Alien X would still exist. Also Alien X can technically time travel himself, it's basically god mode in sandbox on drugs, hard drugs. Surviving the destruction of a universe and creating one itself. So Lantern time traveling could also be applied to Alien X following him or simple reversing back to before he told him etc. Time travel is a bag of worms you shouldn't use when it applies to both parties. Cause it's a dumb and very contrived.
@@Vindication1134That would be true, except for the fact that this literally happened to Ben in the show. Instead of his hand simply being chopped off, Ben got teleported to what I believe is the null void while his hand was walking around on Earth.
Eh a lot of casual vs-debater and many reaction channels ONLY care about the verdict and complain afterwards if their character lost. Also in that rant they love bringing up the prejudices: "Death Battle hates anime", "DB is biased against dbz" and so on.
For the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix they made him look weak. Alien X is supposed to have supreme power over the entire universe, And they make him have the Shadow clone jutsu and punching. He could have beaten that fight in a second.
the only reason alien X was boxing in the series is it is bec he was fighting another clestial sapien, him doing it in the death battle is clearly a point they made that green lantern is atleast has the stats to nulify every haxx alien x got, no ?@@ImADeity
Ok, go back and watch Ben 10 Omniverse he literally has as a flying brick because Ben is pretty dumb. The coolest thing he's done is: Universal Creation Black Hole Some Lame Telekinesis Minor Time Manipulation
@@l0sts0ul89 ben dumb? wow you say go back to the series but don't even know the first about ben. literally one of the most battle hardened characters. literally all good hax and more what you mean?
@@faith4657 With his godly power, instead of ya know fixing the Plumbers Kids and removing their powers or something what does he do? Make them fight like Legos, all he did was punch while in Alien X. Also "one of the most battle hardened characters" is giving Ben too much credit, he's not.
I genuinely think the only reason this episode is hated so much, is just because of the scissors, the scissors completely contradict what they said in the analysis about the Omnitrix catching the Big Bang, that literally feels like it, it’s just the scissors being so damn slow
@@Yes_nuggetUsing 10yo Ben was a stupid idea even if it was just for looks and DB's research and scaling of a character is almost always pathetically wrong but the winner was right. Ben 10 isn't even scratching Hal. One is arguably high outerversal if not higher, the other is hyberversal if you're being extremely generous.
@@liamdealmeida9914 I disagree, ben should have won. I can think of two aliens that can beat Hal, alien x (obviously) and clock work. Alien x can do literally anything, Hal isn't winning against that. And clockwork could could simply stop time and then fire a time beam that will age his body rapidly, killing him instantly.
@@Yes_nugget While both are powerful, they just can't compete with someone on Hal Jordan's level. Most of Alien X's abilities won't work on Hal, GL has been shown to resist similar abilities from much more powerful characters, whether it's Pre/Post-Crisis, New52 or Rebirth Hal. Alien X being able to "do literally anything", means what? He has matter and time manipulation, erasure, mind control and transmutation, maybe reality warping (GL has most of these too)? These abilities are fairly common and usually (except for time manip), scale to the user, meaning they more often than not, won't work on someone massively more powerful eg. Giorno (JoJo's) or Gilgamesh (Fate) would have better luck (aka causality manipulation) than Lucky Girl (Gwen) or King (OPM), to the point where they can dictate what happens opposed to it just being luck to them. A better example is how mind control from someone like Puppet Master didn't work on Hulk but it worked much better from Xemnu or Thanos. Stopping time means absolutely nothing because GL has immeasurable speed, so he can travel through time with raw speed alone, I'm pretty sure he even has irrelevant speed though, but you only need inaccessible speed to move during stopped time. I don't recall Hal having age manipulation resistance, but he can also age things, someone aged a tree to a stump with a replica of his ring and he once aged himself into being an old man and casually managed to de-age himself back to normal. I'd imagine he does have resistance to it, seeing that other lanterns haven't used this ability on each other, he just allowed it to happen to himself. Even if he didn't, he is just infinitely more powerful and faster so it doesn't matter. Ben is a statue in comparison, so Hal speed blitzes and one-shots/erases him before he can even use the move. If it does hit him, he just reverses the effects. I'm not sure if you're familiar with all this power scaling jargon, which is understandable, you're not expected to as long as you're respectful. If you need me to elaborate on stuff, I'll do my best to explain. I can understand why people would believe Ben wins but he just hasn't done much that Hal hasn't dealt with or anything that can put him anywhere near most JL members in power. To put the power gap into perspective, Alien X is probably at low complex multiversal, so 4D to 6D, each dimension is more than infinitely above the previous one. Hyperversal starts at 12D and can go on to infinite dimensional, so ♾D. You can then go above this by being outerversal, above the concept of dimensions as a whole and there are still levels to this. While Hal isn't an outerversal being in nature, he has outerversal attack potency (power) and durability meaning he can destroy outerversal structures. If you want any proof of Hal being at this level I'll find some examples and use some chain-scaling.
I liked the part where Hal said “Time huh? Thanks for the tip” and then proceeded to go to a restraint and tip all the waiters. Truly one of the death battles of all time
And that's how Costal City was saved.....which turned out to be the catalyst for the Emerald Paradox(okay not really)...but that would be so hilarious.
I think the reasons Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is so hated is because 1. Green Lantern is not known to time travel to the mainstream so watching him time travel will make tons of people confused 2. Traveling back in time to kill your opponent at an vulnerable state is the most Disrespectful and cheap way to kill someone so it would make a lot of people Ben 10 fans upset
Ben could also travel in time and his watch does not let its wearer die, the moment his arm is cut off automatically it should transform him into an alien that can regenerate it
I'm not mad about that Ben lost. I just didn't like how they portrayed him. He had an older voice with aliens from the newer omnitrix. At that point just use teenage Ben lol
I heard that the reason why they used young Ben 10 was because he was more popular than the older version but I might be wrong as this was 4 years ago when I heard this
@@roobyrne3075Kid Ben was mainly used because the team didn’t have access to Teen Ben sprites and ultimately them using Kid never had an effect on the outcome
One thing I'd like to add is how stupid the time travel part of the animation was. "I control time" "Time, huh?" *Uses time to kill him* Imagine that with any other character. Aquaman: "I command the oceans" "Oceans, huh?* *Throws water balloon that kills Aquaman* OR Batman: "I fight for my parents" "Parents, huh? Martha." *Batman falls over crying* Naturally that's going to piss some people off.
There are just so many plot holes with this. First of all, the Omnitrix will instantly activate its failsafes against it’s removal and death of it’s owner, so what makes Death Battle think Hal could bypass this? Also, Present Ben as Alien X would chase after Hal after he time traveled to the past via Sotobro Effect and stop him from killing Past Ben (which is impossible because of anti-death failsafes.) Even if somehow Hal did kill Past Ben, it’s still pointless as Present Ben would still be alive and kicking as Alien X because Celestialsapiens aren’t affected by time and space at all. And according to Paradox in Omniverse, every time you travel to the past you only create a branch of new timelines, therefore leaving the original timelines unchanged. You see there are just so many plot holes and it would so much more for Ben to simply negate Hal’s ring, blink him out instantly and be done with it.
Especially when their QnA argument to debunk him following is "hal went back first so he wouldn't get there in time." like bro that's not how time travel works, he can go to LITERALLY any point he wants to not just the same amount of time that Hal went back.
@@calvinkopp1735I got you. Hal simply just outstats. Ben’s only alien that actually stands any chance base for base against Hal is Alien X, and even giving Ben the benefit of the doubt and saying that he’s as strong as characters that can overpower Superman and Martian Manhunter, its a stalemate until Ben’s forced to change tactics and eventually gets overwhelmed.
My issue isnt necesserely that Ben lost. Its HOW he lost. Ben deserves a proper defeat, not some bullcrap that would never have worked. Give us a proper Alien X VS Hell Battle where at the end Hell manages too destroy the Omnitrix, not simply cut it off Bens arm wich WOULDNT WORK.
Yeah it was such a weak conclusion, you end the whole figth by basically preventing the fight from happening in the first place and attacking from behind at a vulnerable moment, doesn't it take away the point of doing a battle to see who is stronger in the first place? I mean, in that case what stops Ben from doing the same? Just time travel back in time to a point where Hal's ring is with 0 charge or he isn't wearing it and kill him when he dosen't see him comming, where's the fun in that?
@@l0sts0ul89 But that wasnt with some regular scissors but with a hyper advanced weapon that send Ben too another dimension but kept his hand in the regular dimension, but they where still connectet. When the Omnitrix transformd, Ben transformed as well, when the hand moved and jumped arund, Ben was pulled along. That was a entirley diffrent scenario.
As someone who had been watching kuro since his first video, based on some stuff he has said in the past, I believe that the reason he said he'd rather than death battle "never touched the character" is less so because of any of his feelings and more because it forced him to make those 3 videos. In a lot of videos he has said that he actually doesn't really know or care that much about powerscaling and mainly just wanted to give ben 10 some respect that he felt he lacked (which is something I appreciated back when I discovered his channel too because I also felt like I couldn't comfortably talk about this show I've loved for half my childhood up until kuro's efforts). The bad part of kuro becoming the accidental ambassador of the ben 10 community is that he ended up feeling forced to address and respond to any issue the fandom had even if it was something he didn't necessarily wanted to do, the death battle videos being one of those, I believe he initially didn't even want to make any videos on it or more than 1 video on it so by the end of the third he felt that the harm the episode caused to him by indirectly making him make videos he didn't really want to outweighed the parts he liked and just wished it hadn't happened so that he wouldn't have made those videos.
Tbf, he never *had* to make those videos. At the end of the day he was the one who wrote the script, recorded the dialogue, edited the video, and then uploaded it. It definitely does suck to hear, but he could've very well just ignored it. You can't really blame death battle for that
@@afro025 that is why even that certain event was still not over, he stopped responding. Ofcourse it's partly his fault upon shouldering the voices of the community.
@@afro025 yeah I definitely wasn't implying it was all the fault of either party. I just wanted to shed some light on why he said that he wished they never touched the character. Shortly after those videos he actually had announced that he was going to stop making videos and give control of the channel to his 2 occasional co-hosts, even did a big "history of ben 10 animated" event that was supposed to be his "epic finale" but even then he returned to making videos some time later and has seemed to be happier ever since. I believe that in that period of time where he wasn't making videos he probably realized that being the go-to content creator for ben 10 didn't make him automatically accountable for any random community drama he may or may not want to invest time into.
@@vorrdegard2176and also Alien X disintegrating Hal like thanos doesn’t make sense. As Kevin said “They(celestialsapiens) could just blink and we’d be gone”
Those Alien X clones aren't like Shadow Clones, they're all just as capable of anything as the original. Ben could simply overwhelm Hal with infinite clones until the ring's charge is gone and finish him off.
My take: 1.Presentation: Even though Death Battle goes with the peak version of a character or sometimes a composite version for some reason they decided to use young Ben as their representative instead of Omniverse Ben. This also follows into the aliens they use since a majority of them use Classic Ben designs instead of a custom or Omniverse which makes it very confusing for those who arent aware than Ben is 17 years old canonically at the end of the origonal series. 2. The line up of aliens: Way Big and Alien X made sense. Four Arms as a starter to grasp the difference in strength was fine and so was Heatblast. But we didnt get guys like Atomix, Chromastone, Upchuck or Feedback, aliens that they listed off as some of his best picks that didnt even show up to make things interesting. The fight only really got good once he went Way Big. 3. Logic: Even if you were to say Ben was to lose to Hal the fact they completely ignored the failsafe that stops the wearer from dying was complete crap. A better option would be to make the omnitrix go into self-destruct mode then stop Ben from turning it off so that he blows himself up. And this is ignoring the worse moment of the fight where Hal just time travels and Alien X just lets it happen without a fight he doesnt follow him and fight in the time stream or just pulls a Bite za dusto. It was just stupid for the sake of an ending.
The entire Ben 10 vs GL debacle was an undeniable mess. The episode itself is average at best with some considerable flaws that caused the backlash that it did. For starters, the overall analysis for both characters was fine. It did a pretty decent job at summarizing the characters, what they were about, and a basic rundown of their abilities. The animation though is where the issues start rearing their ugly head. With the animation itself, I think it’s cohesive enough & the animators did a great job. The sound design was also well done. The directive choices of the fight is what I take issue with. First off, I understand why they chose to represent Ben with his kid model. It’s the most iconic & recognizable look he has. Considering his opponent though, it might’ve been better to use Teenage Ben; as you avoid the controversy of a full-grown adult offing a kid if he won. The next issue is the choreography of the overall fight. The fight up to Alien X is good. You get to see a variety of powers from both sides, fun interactions, and some quirks from both combatants. When Alien X arrives however; we start getting interpretations of both characters that are very inaccurate to their portrayals & the fight starts becoming unbelievable. The fight ends with GL using an ability he isn’t known for having before he finishes off a kid in a way that makes 0 sense & is very disrespectful to his opponent, which is also completely out of character for Hal; Killing restrictions removed from their personality or not. The final 2 nails in the coffin comes from the closing analysis. For starters, the closing remarks were super vague about how GL managed to secure a win, and it left me as well as the audience unsatisfied with the conclusion. What’s worse, the actual good arguments for why GL could feasibly win was left to be answered in a Q&A segment, because Deathbattle couldn’t be bothered to do a lengthy explanation for why they chose a winner overall. Leaving your strongest arguments out of an episode is just a bad judgment call. All that said, I’m actually glad this episode got as much flack as it did. It was a needed wakeup call for the team. Since this episode, I feel the team takes the debate aspect as well as showing off characters in a more accurate light (in most cases). They’ve certainly gotten better, and in matchups that are far messier to decide a winner, (Take DIO vs Alucard for instance), they take their time and address every possibility for why they went with their winner & made sure all the possible bases are covered. I honestly believe Deathbattle would not be as polished as it is today if episodes like Ben vs GL didn’t kick them in the pants & the team didn’t take valid criticism to heart. If you read through this long winded post, I honestly thank and applaud you for doing so.
Nah, the "wakeup call" the Ben 10 fanbase wanted was for them to believe that "Lel aLiEn X sOlos" and "bUt mUh fAiLsAfE". The Ben 10 fanbase was stuck in their delusion of Alien X being some omnipotent god who solos fiction, and they were upset that Death Battle didn't think the same. I've legit seen people think Alien X is on par with TOAA and The Presence.
Them having a wake up call is why I think Wally vs Archie did better than Ben vs Hal, both episodes involved the DC character beating a character mostly known for being unbeatable to a fan base that can’t/won’t accept otherwise, but Wally vs Archie didn’t end up as controversial because, like you said, they addressed every reason why Wally wins in great detail, so your assessment is extremely accurate
@@mrmisterman2874you sure? Because I've seen a lot of people that kept on saying Archie Sonic should have won and that Archie Sonic beats Wally in basically every aspect.
Being reminded of this death battle only further reinforces my belief that its almost always going to be obvious who the winner is based almost entirely on how old the character is and how much source material they can call upon. like my belief is that Ben lost because they almost never went into higher threat levels that require heavier hitters like Way Big or Alien X, and kept the scope of the show mostly on Earth when the most interesting things happened off in space, Hell apparently Alien X isn't even the strongest in the Omnitrix base on Dareks comment, but it doesn't matter since we never got to hear or see anything about it.
that statement was debunked Alien x is the strongest alien celestial sapiens are literally the creators of everything and are stated to be the literal staff of ben 10
With the likes of DC comics being like 80 years old that sure as hell is true with the fact that every god damn dc comic is canon to one another or someshit.
I think the main problem is that nothing said in the initial video, and even afterwards, actually give Hal the win. There is no reason to believe the fail safe has a cooldown, Vilgax had the Omnitrix hand in a specialized machine when he attempted to cut it off (and it’s never shown to actually work), and making any judgments on the limitations of Alien X is foolish when aside from a few crew statements and Agregore’s plan to absorb a baby Celestialsapien we aren’t given any limits.
Also going on the omnitrix fail safe, it’s faster than the Big Bang, plus if Hal’s constructs are classified as energy then Feedback alone wins. (I don’t know a lot about the lanterns so correct me if I’m wrong) also even if Hal destroyed diamond head he’ll regenerate also the best transformation would have been goop
@@gundamandyugioh4184 they aren't actually classified as energy. at least not one that obeys any given laws of physics. he can freely transform it into any kind of energy he wants, including magic or sonic, or even something like antimatter. rookie green lanterns are vulnerbale to things like black holes bending light, but experienced lanterns are not. he also has a number of tricks to deal with energy absorbers and can just... win tug of war matches with them. the first time he ever absorbed the central battery he did so to prevent another being from doing it, and not only absorbed it faster but took the power away from him. it's technically the raw fuel of all reality, including dimensions like the new gods realsm and afterlife. and absorbing hal's specific energy kind of... turns you into an extension of hal, anyway. it's described as"omnijectively real" and the thing which powers the source wall
an omnitrix technician in every series claims you can cut it off, and the one time it seems to prevent his hand being cut off, the episode actually points out the weapon malfuntioned, it wasn't the omnitrix's doing. plus, you can't assume no limits on alien x since he's shown to fall short several times in the series. to do otherwise is to just give him unlimited benefit of the doubt while ignoring hal's own experience killing immortals and omnipotent beings.
@@danielwilson8604 where in the series is that stated? Cause again it’s fail safe would prevent that. Like an Omnitrix technician? First I’m hearing of it, unless it’s from the reboot which is not canon to the Prime timeline so where is that stated. I genuinely would like to know You have a point with Alien X though
The big issue is the scissor thing, the failsafe protected Ben from the Big Bang and if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix from AF he had his hand severed by a portal but omnitrix reanimated his hand and stayed linked to the severed wrist keeping him from bleeding out so really the method of Ben losing was just really stupid, there are plenty of ways Hal could have won the fight but cutting his hand off was stupid
the hand was severed by that axe...the energy field the axe produced was what stopped ben from bleeding...the omnitrix had his hand move on its own sure but the axe teleported ben away from his hand
@@metalmario1231 yes and as I said only if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix, however they show the prototype which multiple times prevents it’s own removal & even flips out when Vilgax tries to cut his arm off & he begins randomly transforming for the remainder of the encounter & the final omnitrix failsafes to protect him while he’s human to enable him to survive a universe creating/destroying bomb at point blank range, so unless they’re only using one omnitrixes logic that isn’t even shown rather than the one shown or the most current then it’s kinda cherry picking ain’t it?
@@Dreadwing1000 That is incorrect. Grandpa Max crashed through Vilgax's ship and into Vilgax before the blade ever made contact with Ben. The resulting electrical damage began spreading through the ship, which spread into the Omnitrix and caused it to begin rapidly changing Ben. It was not the Omnitrix reacting to the blade. And yes, the complete Omnitrix saved Ben from outright dying. After it let him die to multiversal destruction, get kidnapped and be hurt on numerous occasions. That is not a defense mechanism that would react to limb removal.
My favorite part of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is that part in Goomba vs Koopa DBX where Koopa flies through the timestream leaving behind the Goomba shoe for Hal to "get an idea"
There are three types of people who critique Death Battle. -People who analyze the episode itself, and call out what they liked or didn't like about the animation, writing, and skits. -"My Dad should've beaten your dad and here's why." -"My Dad beat your dad but he should've beaten him harder."
If they had come up with a good enough reason for Ben to lose, I wouldn't have been mad about it. But no, that was not the case they just doubled down on the lack of proper research on Ben and why he should lose
the problem is that they were RIGHT about a number of the points people call poor research, or didn't dispute them enough. among other things, alien x has actually shown onscreen he cannot sense time travellers coming and doesn't exist without ben.
@@sev1120 this is never stated, nor shown. the sotobro effect is specifically something chronosapiens and their technology leave behind when they time travel, no other time traveller leaves such a trail. eon and even vilgax were able to travel without paradox tracking them, and paradox himself even snuck up on alien x themself, grabbed ben, and left, forcibly detransforming them. neither serena, ben nor bellicus could sense him coming or stop him leaving. if there is a specific statement otherwise please let me know.
@danielwilson8604 Regardless of Alien X not showing it, it doesn't mean he can't. Alien X's species exist outside all of existence and cannot be harmed by anything. They failed to fully understand Alien X and the idea that there isn't anything he can't do
@@SJMS.x0930 Claiming that someone can do "anything" is vague, unquantifiable, and ultimately, meaningless. There are plenty of characters in fiction said to be omnipotent or god or whatever. Those are just titles. What really matters is the feats they've actually shown. Speculation and assumptions are worthless. You can't just make up powers or stats for a character. That's not how debates work. It doesn't matter that Alien X is said to be able to "do anything". Yeah, so are about a dozen comic book characters, and they are still beaten by higher beings. That phrase doesn't tell me anything. The best he has ever shown is creating a universe. That simply isn't enough to beat even mid tier DC heralds. And you literally just pulled the ultimate no limits fallacy by claiming Alien X can't be harmed by anything, Just because nothing in Ben 10 is powerful enough to harm in (which is questionable itself but that's not important right now) that doesn't mean other characters who have greater feats than him can't. It doesn't matter that he's the god tier in a verse filled with mere universal reality warpers. His feats are so pathetic compared to what Hal has pulled off. This is the same argument Saitama fans use. Battles are about feats, not how cool someone looks whenever they show up. By your logic I could also say Zeno from DBS is unbeatable because nothing in his verse is powerful enough to harm him. That's not how it works.
As a MASSIVE Ben 10 fan, it's not so much that Ben lost as it is how he lost, the expectation for why he lost, and who he lost to. I'm going to start by explaining how he lost. This just applies to the animation. It's very obvious why there was such a backlash. Having Hal travel back to the beginning of the fight was a cheap and anticlimactic way of winning. In addition, it goes against how time travel works in both the DC and Ben 10 universe. So regardless if either character goes back in time to kill there opponents past self this does nothing but creates a new timeline in which there original selfs are unaffected. Now it's time for the dreaded Green Scissors. The fail safe should have activated when Hal goes back in time and cuts Ben's wrist. The energy feedback that protects Ben doesn't have a cooldown, and the Omnitrix will turn Ben into an Alien who will protect/save him."But Hal's constructs move faster than..."Blah blah blah the animation didn't elude to that and that's exactly the problem. The animation has to matter. A good amount of people who watch Death Battle watch for the animation and so it needs to be a more proper representation of both characters and there abilities and it needs to be conveyed as accurately as possible. Now, the explanation for Ben's loss. It was written poorly. I'm not going to go into detail (partly because I'm lazy and I'm writing this on my lunch break and you go into better detail than I could), but here's the bare minimum. All they had to say was Hal was faster and had more experience fighting Omnipotent entities, and they removed all of the fluff about Ben playing catch up and his aliens not being able to accomplish (insert feat here.) I could go on and on about how they didn't calculate or mention any of Ben's more powerful aliens and their feats, or what they got wrong about Alien X, or how they downplayed Ben or how I didn't like Ben's representation in the fight or how the episode at times felt like nostalgia pandering to me during Ben's anyslsis but none of that matters because of my last point. This was a completely unequal match-up, which is why I disliked it so much.This is something that anime fans bring up when a DC/Marvel character beats an anime character on DB, and it's that DC and Marvel characters have an unfair advantage because they have multiple comics, different authors, multiple different timelines and alternative versions, and they've been around for so long. Most non-DC/Marvel characters have a single source of origin and a smaller pool of writers. In the case of Ben 10, the franchise is only 17 years old, but DC and Marvel have characters that have been around for more than 40 years. For myself and many others, rooting for our favorite to win against these characters is pointless because DC/Marvel characters are simply built different. They have a lot of power creep. I wouldn't have minded if Ben had lost against someone on his level, but he didn't. Lanturns are broken. Honestly I hate being reminded of this fight and yeah I have no problem saying this is my least favorite DB and it's not because Ben lost it's because he never stood a chance to begin with so there was no point being excited for this match up in addition to the fight being ( and I hate using this word) mid. The peak was Hal vs Heatblast imo and everything afterwards just being meh. Both characters have creative powers and both characters don't do anything interesting with them in the fight. All around good analysis video. If you have feedback or a different opinion I'd love to talk.
@saucymongoose I agree with your opinion. I saw one ink tank video where Kuro talks about how ben won and how death battle got some stuff wrong about Alien X, and how Ben could use different ways to win against green lantern.
@@justinalicea1590: That’s kinda my point. He could’ve just taken the watch after cutting his arm off and brought him to a hospital but he had to be an asshole and kill him.
He wasn't a kid when you thought he was going to win. Sounds like a pathetic last ditch effort to make Hal look bad. Hal opted for containment and procurement of the watch amicably as well as pacifying Ben. That boy decided to escalate things unnecessarily forcing Hal's hand. That little sh*t deserved it. This wasn't vilgax or Dagon. He should be glad parallax Hal didn't show up.
I feel like a major reason people were dissatisfied with the results is that this episode felt disrespectful towards Ben 10 considering this episode was released around the height of Ben 10's popularity in vs discussions only for death battle to go "oh the guy who you consider to be stronger than superman? Nah, his ass can't even beat Green Lantern" without really explaining it properly. That's the thing, there are plenty of newer episodes where they took characters the internet believes to be invincible, only to have them lose, like Archie Sonic and Saitama, the difference is that those episodes had a satisfying explanation as to why those characters lost, the biggest example I can think of being in Flash vs Sonic, I fully expected Sonic to win. The difference is, the conclusion made perfect sense, so after listening to it I went "yeah, that makes sense" and gained a new appreciation for Wally West. In this they went "nah, Ben 10 isn't that powerful, he's not even universal in the absolute worst reasoning ever, and all those super OP abilities he has? Pshhhh, no big deal, they just won't work". They didn't go into full detail on valid reasons why GL would win (which I do believe) like lantern rings being the most complex technology ever, way more advanced than the omnitrix, Green Lantern's ability onto HOW he could get around the failsafes, and his experience with celestial beings beyond alien x. Basically, instead of bringing GL up, it felt like they were putting Ben 10 down, and with their incredibly faulty reasonings, it also made them look super non credible. VS debates are subjective, yes, but you still need valid reasons as to why a character won or lost. It's why, despite disagreeing with a lot of episodes like Hulk VS Broly, I can at least respect and understand where they're coming from and hold it much higher than an episode like Frieza vs Megatron or this one, which I still agree with the results, but their reasonings were so bad I view the episode in a bad light. I do understand why the verdict does mean so much to a lot of people, and to me personally, while it's not the biggest contributing factor of enjoyment, it still is a big one, whether that be objective reasonings like reasonable conclusions, or subjective ones like my preferred character not getting their ass kicked. Obviously it's not the only thing I value, otherwise a season as great as season ten would be my least favorite season due to how often my preferred character lost this season, but at the end of the day, death battle asks a question of who would win in the fight, and in that regard, the thesis does have understandable importance, and if someone has major issues with it, then it's perfectly reasonable why they are unhappy with the whole episode. Like I said though, in the end, it's not the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't even say it's the most important thing, otherwise an episode with a terrible verdict and conclusion, but everything else being great like Frieza vs megatron would be an episode I hate more than Korra VS storm, which is my actual least favorite episode of death battle, despite the verdict being the only thing about the episode that isn't absolute fucking dogshit.
I like that Kuro is pretty okay with the show now. He even showed up during Bentember in the live chats during the Ben 10 debates, and it was as if the final boss showed up
Fun fact: TH-cam uses the background music on videos to suggest similar content to the video you're watching. Came here from the recommendations on a tally hall video
Small correction Alien x clones are as strong as the original The failsafe shockwave doesn't have a cool down (idk where did they get that from) The failsafe was fast enough to catch the BigBang(of a universe that is infinite in size) exploding in bens face I don't know how fast Hal is but is he really that fast ? would like if u tell me and ty Overall i think hal should have won bec he has 1000 of comics so he obviously has More time to develop and shine just not like that i mean come on...
an author has claimed that ben's universe is infinite in size, but that's a shakey claim since we've seen the edge of it, and an infinite universe wouldn't have a big bang. however, if we assume that it is true, we'd have to use the same claims about dc's universe. since hal can not only scan the entire universe instantly and even fly from the center past the edge in the space of a single sentence, that'd still make him faster thanks to the smaller timeframe., especially since the universe being much older would mean it had expanded more.
@@danielwilson8604 ty maybe if they showed us in the animation that Hal moves so fast that time is slowed to Ben or if Hal said I have to be quick or something it would have been clearer since the start Bec the way they make it look like they just forgot about . My only problem with it know is what didn't Alien x follow back Hal? Alien x has two Avatars beligus and seriena who are omniscience they could have told Ben if he didn't realize or the fact that Hal literally says "time huh that's for the tip so Alien x should know his plan
@@tpabdo7857 that would indeed have been a better solution. i'm planning my own animation and hoping to do the fight justice because it's a genuinely interesting matchup to me.
@@tpabdo7857 sorry, didn't catch the edits. but serena and bellicus have something LIKE omniscience, but we've seen time travellers sneak up on them and give them the slip before, when paradox broke into their mind-void grabbed ben and left, destransforming them. they didn't see him coming, but they were focused on him when he left. and ben's future self has confirmed that if his past changes, his future ceases to be. between that, hal being MUCH faster and the fact that they will cease to exist without ben and the omnitrix, they were in a bad position. does that make sense?
@@danielwilson8604 yes but paradox isn't ur average time traveller and still Hal said "time huh thanks for the tip" and celestial sapiens live outside of the multiverses and outside of time it is also supported by the fact that there is one Alien x that all Bens in the multiversus have access too. So again killing him in the past won't do anything ,even by the logic of both shows I believe but that might be a bit to much to ask in my eyes if they made Alien x follow him back then time traveller Hall kills Ben since he knows how fast the failsafe, while the the other Hal holds off Alien x then they both team up and kill him with an explostion ,Thank you for listening to me and answering me logical answers so far and not just saying Hal when Bec he just does
The problems don't come from Hal beats Ben. It's how. Ben's first watch has a cooldown, but his latest doesn't. By the version of Ben they use he has all the powers of a later Ben, no mater the sprite. He can't be killed like that. And thay handled Alien X really poorly, he is a solve a problem fast with powers type of fighter, not a melee one. Also the biggest issue is Ben has a lot of aliens that can absorb Hal's attacks or affect the ring. And they use none. I am with Kuro here. I wish they didn't touch Ben, because they didn't add a lot to the fandom and spred some misconseptions like what can Ben do and that the watch is harming the user by a lot of use
honestly, i'm of the opposite school here? a lot of what people claim in the debunks is flar out wrong or directly contradicted by canon, and it's lead to a lot of people claiming ben has powers he doesn't or tryting to enforce limits on green lantern he doesn't have, like claiming he cannot travel in time post crisis. no version of hal jordan lacks time travel. it's also pushed alien x scaling to frankly absurd extremes.
If three Alien X clones are fighting in melee, the rest will be throwing suns or blasting the enemy with antimatter or doing literally anything other than JUST FLOAT THERE
@@danielwilson8604 I'm not really an expert on Green Lantern, but a lot of things that he did against Ben is literally established in Ben 10 to not be possible. You can’t cut of Ben's hand You can't travel back in time without Ben being able to anything against it (Sotobro effect) Also Ben's human form can't be killed as it has a fail safe that would automatically change him to an alien able to survive said attack Like I don't actually care about the main result, just the way it was reached as its contradictory to Ben 10's lore and rules
@@matheussandbakk9959 the problem is, Ben's human self has died onscreen, and an omnitrix technician has claimed you could cut it off in every series, including g the final. They could have explained it better, but its still supported by canon. It has defences, but they aren't absolute. Also, professor paradox did just that against alien x himself, destransforming him by warping into their void while they couldn't sense him and teleporting away before they could do anything. The sotobro effect is only said to trace chronosapiens, after all. And even as clockwork, ben couldn't tell the difference between eon travelling in time and being vaporised.
@@danielwilson8604 Theres no such thing as the "Omnitrix technician" atleast in the main contintenty the reboot is it's own seperate thing that's like using teen titans go as a reason for why raven or starfire from the comics lose a fight, it's dumb
I believe the big reason Ben 10 v Green Lantern was so disliked, even if previous episodes had incorrect conclusions, is that the other episodes all _seemed_ to be good arguments. If the only things you knew were what DB showed, then most of the time one could leave an episode thinking "yeah, that makes sense". The rematch of Mario v Sonic did NOT have this, and even seemed to ignore very good points in the original that had Sonic win, so people didn't like that remake... but hey, they aren't _that_ far apart, so it's not so blatant. That basically had boiled down to "they counter each other in everything but speed, and we all know Sonic's faster", a take that was not sufficiently overturned but still means they're close. Here though? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in the episode apart from the official conclusion, was screaming that Ben is the winner. They did a Q+A later? Irrelevant. That's not the episode, and most people aren't even going to pay attention to it. As for points you brought up about Ink's analysis, while the reasoning behind Hal outspeeding the failsafe seems sound, it does nothing without the opportunity, and per DB rules, he can't know enough to have that opportunity beforehand. They got around that by time travel, but the arguments for the Sotobro Effect make it pretty clear that, no, that's not an option. I know you claimed that said effect might have been exaggerated, but that was one claim, not directed at Ink's coverage of it specifically, and gave no counter-explanation... so I have to assume Ink was right on that point.
Yeah, even if an episode has a wrong result if DB gives a sound reasoning for it then there won't be a problem. The phoenix vs raven fight despite being wrong DB gave a reasonable explaining on the analysis so for their general youtube audience who is not as in deep in comics the result makes sense. Ben vs Hal was a huge ball drop from them.
The only reason Sonic won in the original was the ignorant assumption that power-ups canceled each other out, once this was corrected the team came to the assumption that Mario would win because he could just Spam invincibility power-ups. And that's not even going into how Sonic shouldn't have won by that episodes but Nemesis already explained that
I never noticed this, but my friend pointed it out to me and I can’t unsee it. The person who wins the battle, is always whoever has the largest number of kilotons of TNT as there power feat.
It really depends on the episode, but yeah, outstating your opponent is a pretty reliable way of killing them, especially if the combatants don't have much hax at their disposal.
I think it was Stan Lee (or some other big name in the comics industry) who when asked who would win a fight between two specific characters said, "Whoever the Author wants to win."
Please please please stop using this stupid stupid quote, THERE IS NO WRITER IN THIS CONTEXT YOU IDIOT. Me Vs You, we debate. Who's the writer? Oh right, there isn't any, this isn't a story, there is no narrative, there's nothing here that needs an author's input on how it would go.
The most glaring issue is that they obviously didn't do enough research into Ben's feats, abilities, haxs, or any of his other transformations. Ben has aliens like Ghostfreak who can possess other people and since Green lantern has been taken control of before possession would work on him in this scenario. Ben also has aliens such as chromastone, nrg, feedback, ect who can absorb energy and completely nullify the effects of the ring but DB for some mysterious reason completely ignores them in the matchup.
@@justinalicea1590 your main point seems to stem off of Hal's speed yet he has never truly shown any speed feat that puts him quintillion times faster than light. The whole "he can just avoid Ghostfreak" can also be applied to Ghostfreak. And Hal wouldn't be able to "take back" his own energy from the energy absorbers because they take energy from their opponents and use them as weapons against said opponents, unless he uses a shield or something similar I don't see how Jordan would be able to deal with constantly being blasted with his own energy nonstop
@@justinalicea1590 if Green lantern fired his own attacks at the energy absorbers and they fired them back at him that would be more than powerful enough to hurt GL. The Omnitrix has reacted to things outside of time and space anyway so hal would never be able to speed blitz Ben. And even then those factors still don't have any weight when it comes to his physical strength or what he can do with the ring.
@@justinalicea1590 you are assuming that GL would only be using 1% of his power in the battle when in actuality he would need to use much more than that. The Omnitrix would transform Ben into an alien that would withstand GLs speed, this is a basic countermeasure of the Omnitrix that has been around for almost the entirety of the series. Did you even watch the show?
@@justinalicea1590 Alien X was able to recreate the entire universe which means he was able to create the distance of the entire universe in less than a second. In order for this to be possible his power would have to travel the length of the universe in both directions in a near nanosecond which by itself is a massive speed feat that Alien X performed only using a fraction of his particles which by extension means that he wasn't even using his full power to pull off such a feat. With this information in mind Alien X most likely wouldn't even need to use 4% of his power to completely out speed Hal and put the power of his ring to shame. If you disagree with my points that's fine but I don't see any logical way Hal could ever possibly win
Characters not fighting creatively is something Death Battle constantly struggles with. They use characters that can utilize their powers in unique ways yet all they do is slap each other until one falls over. I’ve been watching them for over a decade and they keep making the same mistakes. They’re not good at what they try to do.
It takes a lot of time to do something truly awesome and unique especially when it comes to a match like this , it'll take weeks or more of animation to make a 5 minute fight which isn't always worth it when running a show. I wish It was better though
I was one of the people that disliked the episode on release but have soften up to it. The reasoning for my hate and maybe others is because Ben represented western animation and was the 2nd Cartoon Network character to appear in a show primarily dominated by combatants from Anime, Comics, and Video games. So seeing representation from my favorite cartoon reignited a spark in me as I didn't even consider Ben 10 for a Death Battle, but him losing made me let emotion rule out reason.
My personal problem with the episode wasn’t Ben being beaten but instead the way Ben was beaten. Idk shit about GL so if he just beat Ben in some beam struggle or started mollywhopping him then I’d be fine with that since I can’t really argue against the strength of a character I don’t know. BUT the way he beats Ben makes no sense with what we know about Ben10. Alien X should’ve been able to follow him, the Omnitrix should’ve reacted to bens arm being cut off, why was Ben still a child if you’re gonna have Hal fucking murder him?
So much missed opportunity. We could've had a Jetray vs. Hal Jordan in a Jet construct dog fight; Hal's favorite construct is a jet and missiles, because duh he was a hot shot pilot. And biggest missed opportunity, Ben using Toe Pick or Ghost Freak; And Hal surrounded by fear, scoffs, and speaks the GL oath, then he breaks free. It could even tie in to the supernova bit, Hal commenting on how he's also done this several times already.
Slight correction I have absolutely no idea where there getting that the failsafe has a cool down unless there's a source for that there is absolutely not a cool down for the failsafe. Furthermore the Omnitrix has been shown to actually be somewhat sentient and was also able to react faster than the big bang and contain it in feedback. Also the failsafe not only can keep Ben alive by transforming into the alien he needs at that moment which by the way the transformations are actually instantaneous the transformation sequences are just for the viewer the failsafe also keeps the Omnitrix from being removed or used by anyone else other than Ben.
I only mentioned the cooldown because it's what Death Battle said (and even then I thought that Liam should've brought up a scan or clip or something).
@@JonathanFrostathanthe cooldown was ben 10 doing by just slapping down the Omnitrix either setting a random timer or just ending up with the wrong aliens. Stated in the ben 10 movie by the creator of the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix is able to keep Ben in the aliens for a long period of time or set in the lock mode to keep him in that alien form like in the Omniverse.
@@majesticgothitelle1802and also the red state is highly theorized to be just a feature for safety(dna getting scrambled or something weird like that) or something to protect the user from going crazy.
@@SuperDestroyerFox it only really been seem with rath, feedback and Ghost freak that changes the personality of Ben. Feedback is the only alien that Ben became obsessed with after turning into the first time.
@@majesticgothitelle1802 he was using it constantly because he just found him strong and kept using him until when he got removed from the omitrix. When that happened Ben felt like he lost a part of himself.
Its not that ben loat that's infuriating. Its how ben lost. 1, hal time traveled, somethjng alien x is shown doing in his debut episode, and 2, hal cut off ben's arm, somethjng which has been shown on several occasions to be impossible.
@@justinalicea1590 what about that time ben's arm gets severed from his body when Ben is in the null void and the omnitrix controls the arm to get out of danger and back to ben? Or that time the omnitrix caused a shock wave when Ben's arm was about to be cut off? Also, even if alien x couldn't time travel, maltruant, a chrono sapien, has been shown to be able to. Ben has a chrono sapien form. Ben could easily time travel too, even if alien x couldn't, but, considering alien x is capable of creating an entire universe, mind control, creating a black whole, and controlling time upon first transforming into him, I'm willing to say he could reasonably be assumed to be capable of time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 Hal surviving multiversal erasure is also an assumption, yet I've seen you say that a million times. Only Kilowag was ever directly shown being hit by the crisis wave. If we're allowed to give Hal that kind of leniency we should also give Alien X the ability to time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 but if its the lantern ring that allows people to survive multiversal erasure, and hal has it and that means hal can survive, then chrono sapiens being able to time travel and Ben having a chrono sapien form means Ben can time travel. Scaling works for both characters.
@@VannyBeumer DC is so god damn overpowered nowadays it ain't even funny it's just like "Oh he destroyed an Omegaverse that's so cool and very creative"
There were two interactions that I wanted to see that I was disappointed didn't come up in the animation: Ben has a transformation called Toepick whose entire power set is being so horrifying to look at that it causes basically anyone who looks at it to collapse in fear. He also has Chromastone, whose gimmick is being able to absorb energy/light based attacks and fire them back. Even if neither of those would be enough to make a difference in the final outcome, those were concepts that came to mind for me while waiting for the death battle to come out and it would have been nice to see them as beats within the fight.
Multiple of Ben's aliens have the ability to absorb the exact kind of energy Hal projects and he has shown the ability to absorb and redirect universal+ level threats with them. There's also multiple aliens that can make him infinitely smarter than Hal. Then there's Upgrade, the tech manipulator, who could potentially interact with Hal's ring which is advanced technology. The list goes on and on because Ben has such a wide variety of aliens and many of them have extremely unique and creative abilities. They acted like Alien X was his only option then lowballed it, but neither of those things are accurate. It just really showed they didn't even try to accurately research him.
@@GigaLigma The problem with that is that Alien X really was Ben's only option. All of his other aliens are too slow and/or too weak to keep up with Hal. Also, absorbing the energy of a Green Lantern is pretty difficult since it's actual willpower and is something makes up part of the underlying structure of DC's cosmology. That's to mention that Hal would just... absorb it back or just overpower Ben's absorption through the sheer amount of energy he has (seriously, Hal Jordan has so much willpower that he overpowered Ion, the literal concept of willpower and the entity that grants all Green Lanterns their powers, with his own willpower, and no, I'm not joking). Plus, universe+ level threats are pretty common in DC and are much weaker than Hal, so absorbing that much energy wouldn't really affect him. As for becoming smarter than Hal, ok? That won't really help Ben if he gets speed-blitzed, one-shot, and/or out-haxxed. Plus, isn't Alien X technically smarter? As for Upgrade, Green Lantern tech has resistance to hacking that even multiversal supergenius's in DC can't hack into them, and Hal could just use his Ring to hack back into Upgrade's stuff. Plus, Hal could just make himself a new Ring out of his own willpower if needed (yes, he's done that).
@@infernousgaming1393 All any of this does is show that you are a diehard fan of Hal Jordan and know nothing about Ben in comparison. A lot of what you said is true, except when it comes to Ben, because you just flat out do not know anywhere near as much about him. You don't know the speeds of his fastest forms, the intelligence feats of his smartest forms, the energy absorption and redirection feats of his best absorbers; you don't even know that Upgrade has never been shown to be incapable of hacking ANYTHING and is CONSTANTLY used against extremely advanced alien tech or even living tech foes. See, this really annoys me because I'm a big fan of BOTH characters, so reading comments like this from people who obviously know everything about one and absolutely nothing about the other, it's just obnoxious and that's all the actual death battle was too. Even the people doing the episode seemed to know practically nothing about Ben and there's no point even trying to debate with someone who has no idea what they're debating against and doesn't care to learn. Just know that this fight is nowhere near the one-sided stomp it's made out to be by GL stans and TONS of Ben's aliens could give Hal a lot of unique problems you seem oblivious to.
@@GigaLigmaseriously clockwork, nano mech, upgrade, toe pick, ghost freak, and feedback all have power of some form of manipulation that would mop Hal’s ring. I mean toe pick could put Hal in a forever fear state and just rip the finger off
Not having every possible feat mentioned in the analysis isn't due to lack of research, it's simply time constraints and not wanting an hour long DB episode...
I think the catch-up thing was how a fight would play out in most scenarios of this same fight, even with DB's animation having Ben leading the fight most of the time. Hal was able to handle all of Ben's forms pretty well, so it's not too hard to imagine that Hal could flip the script on Ben and Ben would be struggling if Hal took the lead in the fight. I also felt like the 'soft debunk' of Alien X was actually just them saying "Hey, just because Alien X can manipulate reality and can create and destroy a universe, it's not like his powers are that unbeatable", with the Annihilarrgh as an example of Alien X's control over reality and kind of likely other abilities not being infallible. I think this was also the first time DB made the argument that the DC universe is larger than our own, and considering what happened with Jean Grey and the 16th death and the Marvel universe being larger after Hulk vs Broly after the voice work was done... I think it's reasonable to say that something like that happened here. Part of me feels like some of these problems are caused because of poor writing due to trying to wrap a head around all the crazy stuff these characters can do and make it into a cohesive argument and scans being cut due to time constraints.
I really enjoy how in depth you went with your analysis of this episode. And how you ultimately hammered home and greatly emphasized how vs debates are subjective. Honestly, I see too much hate and people ripping each other apart over who would win. It's fine to be passionate about your favorite character... just respect the other person's, my guy.
Alien X literally exists outside of time and space. Not only did he not notice the universe being erased, but he also took zero damage from it and just effortlessly brought it back. Basically, even if Ben was attacked in the past as long as he was still alien X, nothing should have phased him, and once he noticed, he just went back in time and killed green lantern while he was enjoying his victory and then just brought himself back to life with time manipulation and called it a day. The whole fight just feels like a gag at the end that makes no sense, but people are expected to take it seriously
@l0sts0ul89 so does alien X. And even though he has all this "power," he still couldn't win and decided to travel back in time and kill Ben before the fight even started like a bitch
@@keshang_laow8325 Nope, in the Q&A Liam shows ManofAction stating that Celstialsapiens are incapable of Multiversal feats outside of doing it together asa group
I love how insightful and well educated this video is. I love Ben ten, I love it to death, this is one of the episodes that brought me back into death battle and the controversy is just…tiring.
Honestly. The episode I hate the most is Ultron vs Sigma. And that’s because of ONE LIE. They lied in Ultron rundown, giving him a critical weakness he apparently never had and just “lol noped” that weakness away in the analysis. If it was better explained I could accept it easier. That’s usually when I have real problems with episodes. It’s when they explicitly lie, manipulate info, or explain things horribly. (Although let’s be honest here. The most accurate episode 100% is Eggman vs Wily. No way in hell that confrontation ends any differently. That’s one of my faves.)
I actually think the result of eggman vs wily is actually... I think wily winning? I mean quickman is if i'm not misremembering faster than metal sonic, there's robot masters way more crazier than all of eggman's badniks (for example coldman being able to create absolute Zero (pun intended) temperatures, and solar man to create fire hotter than the sun) he just has more fire power, and roboenza isn't really a factor to me because it is dangerous to even wily itself (as shown in megaman 10) and realistically metal sonic isn't going to transform into neo metal sonic because now that the idw comics are canon eggman likely would have removed that feature. But well, it's still pretty darn close with all the final boss machinery that eggman has that give him an edge.
I don’t get your point here, besides giving Ultron a weakness he apparently never had what else was wrong with the analysis because they put everything pretty straight forward
i cannot agree with that reasoning yes there's one wrong thing in the episode but the analysis outside of it is pretty good and that fight is fucking awesome
I disagree with Raven vs Phoenix's result ( I still rooted for Raven ) and I was REALLY REALLY shocked with the result and didn't find the conclusion good, then I realized wow comics are fucked and moved on
Yeah that is kind of DB's thing. Even if the result is wrong, and raven winning is wrong, is their analysis that matters and if you don't buy it well, nothing bad happens. You just disagree and that is all there is.
@@oceanoman Not really given that Phoenix controls life force, a higher version of soul manipulation, and the fact that it is capable of protecting Jean's soul which is how she revives, plus it was easily capable of burning Thor's soul so the whole point of the phoenix not being able to finish Raven off isn't true, neither are the stats since if it wasn't for Jim Corrigan who bonded with him, giving Raven the opportunity the win, white phoenix being on a similar level as something like Specter and argueably above it should tell you how outclassed Raven was in stats, and lets not talk about Unkindness vulnerability to time traveling foes. Also the speed calc was iffy at best but none of that really matters though since what counts is what DB shows and with the analysis that they did the majority of the audience, like you, will have no issue seeing Raven winning inspite of it being a wrong result when you read the comics.
@@oceanoman If you actually read the comics you would have known that Spectre was dunking on her and throwing everything back at her, she was about to die so allow me to take your "i've read the comics mate" with a pinch of salt. 2. Raven attacked him while he was vulnerable and let the other demons do the rest. She basically only finished the job while he was already down. You sure you read the comics bro? And it is very neat that you remember all of that, but this only makes her content at the same level of the phoenix when at full power. Considering that the phoenix controls life force and that is life and death across everywhere at marvel this only means that Raven has a chance at hurting the phoenix, not beat it. 3. Even if Raven regenerates so does Phoenix, so the battle ends, at best for Raven, in a stalemate since she doesn't has the power to match being on the same level as phoenix, pretty much like Specter. 4. Even if Raven can time travel she is still vulnerable to it. Unkindness's defeat involved time travel and a being above all realities, concepts, literal writing narrative while it lives in it's own made up space like the white phoenix can easily do that and alter future events so that Raven won't have unkindness again, not like it needed to since it outclasses Raven greatly unless you give the goth chick all beneficts of the doubt and ignore all the anti feats against her while ignoring the Phoenix's abilities for convenience then yes, phoenix losses.
@@oceanoman Which doesn't make much sense, Raven still has a lot of stamina, if asmodeus was even remotelly close to Specter then Raven would have been easily handled. So no, not in the same tier. Unless we take character statements as 100% true while ignoring that this is a comic and characters can be boastful and lie.
@@oceanoman 2.Ok, so in other words Neron is not that impressive, since he is weaker than Trigon, so it was pointless to even bring him up. 3. All those characters have different and vastly power levels, you yourself admited it when saying that Neron defeated Trigon. No reason to bring these up since yeah, none of them scale to beings like the phoenix, unless you believe that Trigon is on the same tier as Spectre which is constantly showed to not be the case, as much as the writers say the two are equal Trigon never does things that suggest he is near the Spectre. Even if two characters have the same power doesn't means they are equal, for example white phoenix has better control than unkindness raven ever had over souls since it controls life force, raven only deals soul hax and that is not enough. 4. Cool, Raven doing her best can match something the phoenix does casually, existing outside of reality, and still having time travel being part of what stopped her by being below her power, so for white crown phoenix that is easy and the fire bird wins. 5. "By death metal statements" has no reason to be believable. Word of god/author can only be considered when it doesn't contradicts what happens, if it's believable and it doesn't includes something ridiculous. Asmodeus being equal ti Spectre makes no sense since Raven was totally outmatched and about to die when Spectre decided go not play around with her anymore. If she was a bit tired (she wasn't) then it shouldn't have been so one sided but it was. This means that whatever statements an author makes doesn't means it is true. Frankly I have a very hard time believing that you actually read the comics and not some battle boarding site with scans like GameSpot, Comic Vine or VS Battle Wiki :/
So, I scrolled through a truckload of comments here and none of them nor this video brings up another factor that, at least to me, partially contributes to this episode's controversy. It has partially to do with Kuro the Artist before this episode. More accurately, his video on why Ben 10 can beat Goku, Superman, etc. Simply put, that video went Viral. I remember seeing that video pop up in my recommended feed multiple times and I was not into Death Battle as much at the time. The idea that a childhood CN show from the 2000's is as powerful if not more so than the strongest characters in fiction, and providing sound arguments from one of the sequel shows we never got around to watching due to different interests. I was into it, as was a lot of people. I can't speak of the video's quality and I have no motivation to rewatch it, but it was captivating. Back to the DB. I feel part of it's backlash stems unfortunate circumstances. The fact that the episode aired less than a year after Kuro's video, and Ben lost in a disrespectful way as well as that awful conclusion, made it seem like it was a direct response to that video and coming off as really biased towards DC. Of course, this analysis video here shows that's not the case, with the hosts being a massive fan of Ben 10 and genuinely thinking the DC streak would end here. I think if the timeline was different and Kuro's video didn't exist, the backlash would've been less severe. It would still be bad of course, but having a video you can comfortably watch the stats shown while also not watching the Analysis segments for other reasons, tricks my brain into thinking dedicated fans of media knows more than big names in a field. If the video didn't happen, I would be kinda sad, but not angry at the same resolution. For the record, none of this is Kuro's fault. He just wanted to make a video of a series he's passionate for and give light to said series. But at the same time, Death Battle should've gotten a more satisfying death for Ben and put so much more effort into the conclusion because people will subscribe to viral videos and take "responses" to said video very, uncomfortably so seriously.
THE LAST HEARTED COMMENT WAS WELL OVER A MONTH AGO, I THOUGHT FOR SURE I WOULD'VE MISSED ONE OF 3 THOUSAND COMMENTS THAT MENTIONS THE SAME THING! Your videos in general are very well made and I hope in the future that it grows beyond the Death Battle trap, speaking as a low subscriber content creator myself. Also, Ratchet and Clank is also my childhood.
The ink tank actually did a great breakdown of the episode of death battle and why it got things wrong crucial things wrong in the research. I like Green Lantern and you should really check out Ben 10 from classic all the way up to Omniverse.
I'm kinda late to this since i was just recommended this video, but i personally was a GL fan and ben 10 fan, i loved both of them growing up, and felt kinda bad from the battle, cause from what i remembered of GL growing up he was always more limited. Like every time i picked up GL, in movies, comics and shows he was shown limits way beneath what they gave him in the battle,which made me feel as though i was a fake fan and them not well explaining it made me feel kinda dumb, where as I was given a way clearer picture of ben's abilities in the series. Like I remember many comics where green lanterns hit their limits in doing way more mundane stuff than what death battle showed, like them struggling to create a city construct or hold a planet together or move the earth, them shown being mind controlled multiple times or having green lantern rings be broken or hacked, etc, and yet I never remembered them doing anything more impressive than holding back the big bang. Since The episode I have learnt way more of hal's peak abilities, and i can see where they came from. But it does show that I who read green lantern didn't buy their explainations in episode since they didn't really phrase themselves well, and left me with a confusing/incomplete picture. You basically gave me the missing piece of why i disliked the episode even though i like both characters, they were so bad at explaining it that i didn't believe the episode and didn't feel like i could come to the same conclusion with the evidence they provided.
I have finally fully watched the video I just want to say : Thank you so much for making this it's own video and thank you for giving kuro an actual good criticism as opposed to what many DB fans did This video as a Ben10 fan and as someone who is currently regaining my love for DC and especially hal jordan is nothing short of amazing And I enjoyed it , disagree with some stuff but eh opinions and shit ig I'm excited for your season 6 retrospective and your content is amazing and you're one of the best people I saw in the vs communit tbh
I went into the episode thinking Hal stomped the entire known Omnitrix and that Alien X would be the great equalizer and just strong enough to pull out a victory. The cheap win in a fashion that just wouldn't work in context of the episode in addition to the explaination being different from what I saw was what made me mad.
Actually the part about about Omnitrix mutation because being of it is over used wasn’t actually because of Kevin. Bit instead mention as a text as a “did you know fact” as a extra thing in a DVD from the Ben 10 shows franchise (just like how they brought up how Toph can feel earth that isn’t connected to the ground. But Ben 10 VS Green Lantern they don’t show where it comes from). I remember this because someone posted a screenshot of of the fun fact text on Reddit around 1.5 years ago. I can’t actually show the screenshot because I haven’t actually been able to find it myself and I didn’t download the picture of the screenshot on my phone, and I don’t think I have a chance to find the post again after so long time.
They likely got that information from a flashback in omniverse, where Azmuth said that relying on one form too much could cause him lack control with others OR from the reboot when the omnitrix had was broken and kept rotating between aliens and Phil said "there's no DNA signature for Ben". Tldr....they misinterpreted information...shocker
This video felt like a genuine analysis and retrospective on the GL vs. Ben 10 Death Battle all up until the analysis of Kuro the Artist's take on the same video. Once he got to that point, it just felt like he was an angry Green Lantern fan yelling at a Ben 10 fan, and it just screamed bias. Yeah, Kuro is a huge part of the Ben 10 community and obviously has bias, but Johnny here judt seems to be doing the exact same thing Kuro did, and simply enforcing his Green Lantern bias and getting upset at someone trying to debunk the fact his prefered character won. I definitely think both sides have valid arguments as to why one over the other should've won, but maybe have an open mind to the other sides arguments, and this goes to Johnny and Kuro, instead of just pulling out the "Nuh uh" card and screaming at the top of your lungs that the other side is just straight up wrong 23:31
I definitely understand your side and agree with you, but the example you went with was more of a joke thing btw. I think that there are better examples you could've gone with. Also, that was definitely not the top of my lungs. I've gone way higher than that in the past. Also, what "Green Lantern bias"? I literally say that I'm neutral on the debate and that Hal isn't one of my favorite DC characters lol.
Oh this was a very interesting watch. I am very new to watching death battle related stuff thanks to my partner’s Ranking videos, so learning about things like How Green Lanturn vs Ben 10 was so controversial has been uh. Hmm. Hard to wrap my head around? I am very much in a “idc who wins. As long as i enjoy the episode its neat.” Having a character I like win is just a cherry on top.
Glad you enjoyed it. Also, I hope that my $8 donation from yesterday's stream helps you guys out. Or at the very least, be enough to castrate Elon Musk. ;)
Some of my problems with the battle is how they explain certain stuff like the failsafe saying it has a cool down, saying the sotobro effect wouldn’t work, and how they backed up some of their arguments at the end of the death battle with stuff they didn’t use but it was still cool to watch
I was annoyed back in the day at the fact Ben lost but these days I'm over it. The only real thing that bugs me about how DB did Ben is; 1. His portrayal 2. Analysis of Ben and battle's aftermath besides the ending imo the fight was actually pretty lit and the music was awesome
Plus, everything in the prelude basically said "Ben's gonna win this. It's gonna be tough, but Ben's got a slight edge in enough places where he can pull the win" And then they had Hal do something he's never done before in any iteration to pull a win, and it felt like an ass-pull
Ben's omnitrix has been shown to prevent limb removal, and even in the instance of the limb being removed, the omnitrix has just taken over bens body. The omnitirx isnt jus lt a watch. it's an intelligent ai that has adapted to multiple instances like the Big Bang or getting crushed under objects
It has never been shown to prevent limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not chopping his whole arm off with the omnitrix still on it. And that was because Sunder did not actually chop off Ben's flesh and blood, His hand was dimensionally separated but still physically connected, which is why he can still feel it when other people are touching his severed hand. This does not prove the omnitrix can do anything if someone actually cuts his arm off normally without any dimensional displacement nonsense. Ben had no control over his transformations in that state. Other people needed to pick up the omnitrix and mess with its controls to change Ben. The limb removal failsafe simply does not exist.
This video is amazing a couple notes. 1. I really wish you brought up Time Huh? not because I think it's funny but it's because I don't really get the joke 😭. IDK who else could explain it. I only laugh at it because I know it's a meme which feels worse than actually knowing the punchline. 2. #ObitoSweep #RavenSweep #HankPymSweep I got all of them wrong too (while I did change my mind before the animation started it was after I did way too much digging on the characters in a way that it wasn't really a prediction at that point.) I feel your pain homie.
First there’s a biff weed review, than DigitalTy’s season 8 premiere later today. And now an almost half hour long review on one of my favorite episodes. Not a half bad day for death battle fans.
The reason Alien X was too slow to stop the universe from being destroyed was cause Ben hadn't unlocked Alien X's full capabilities by finally getting the other two personalities of Alien X to cooperate, yet.
that's possible, but i doubt it. they didn't debate or draw it out, they just immediately told him that it was too late to stop the destruction, even though it as still happening. it's the first time they've ever gotten right to the point, no less. though not the first time the alien personalities were too slow to act, even in the era when they both could override ben by agreeing.
alien x wasnt too slow omg. did you not watch the episode. ben literally said himself why he didnt stop it. damn ppl are so oblivious. ben didnt know it was being destroyed. thats it, period.
@@e2d_rblx he actually did. the voices even confirmed it for him, but told him it was too late to do anything about it anyway. the destruction wasn't even done, they just couldn't do anything at this point.
Yeah, I've seen the argument so many times that Alien X is limited based solely on the fact that he can't control it until the very very end of the series. He overcomes the form's limits and this form turns into the strongest celestialsapien in existence due to this.
I think a lot of the salt was just from ben losing regardless of whether it was right or not. Also doesn't help how fans were expecting beast boy and not green lantern.
i can't lie, when you talked about the Ring and it allegedly having better failsafes than the Omnitrix the first thing i thought of was the panels shown at minute 25:33. even if it does have failsafes, and even if they're better than the Omnitrix, they seemingly don't work against Nigh-Omnipotent beings. if Dr. Manhattan can get past the failsafes of a Ring, so can Alien X.
@@strider_hiryu850 No they aren't, when has Alien X one shot a chick who can kill multiversal beings? Who has Alien X scared a guy who can think awAy the universe and makes New God's look like a joke?
What i hate about this argument as a whole is that ben 10 fans say that ben should have won and give reasoning but most people on hal's side just do not say anything other than you are wrong without giving reasoning, they are right but boy they don't want to look like it
Yeah this kinda leads to the situation I have where I dont know any feats for the Green Lantern ring in specific that arent directly tied to Hal. I understand Hal uses it really well but I dont know what it's generally capable of and in comparison to what I know the Omnitrix can do it makes it seem like the Omnitrix and it's semi-sentience is just stronger than the average ring. Plus I've yet to see anyone properly explain how Hal could survive instant erasure. He survives non-instant erasure, sure, but that required him to summon his willpower and act against it. Something he wouldnt be able to do to Alien X's instant erasure.
I’d like to point out that Kuro quoted “Time huh, thanks for the tip” in one chapter of 5 Years Later, so it’s clear he’s moved on from any bitterness he may have had from the incident
@@justinalicea1590 wait what? Weird that doesn't sound like Kuro or any of the Ink Tank at all. If he's still responding to comments after all these years maybe he's not over it
@@justinalicea1590 He was joking dude. He's trying the move on from the whole B10 vs GL debacle unlike you which is why he said who is Green Lantern just to forget everything that had happened.
@@justinalicea1590 1. You can trust me this time, I know Kuro inside and out. 2. He's not acting like a baby, I've seen how mature he is. He was joking to you all.
@@NickS-i9i coming from a bum like you who wanted to force CN into making a new show for alien mid ,there is a good reason to not even take you seriously at all "I know kuro inside-out" you mean to say you are in a $eXu🅰️L relationship with kuro for a long time that you know him "inside-out" ? Thats very gross if true 🤮 Seems like name calling us on your last comment in db video didn't end well for you ,huh ? Anyone who wanks ben 10 to the core (that incudes ink tank ,flashback ,faxual scaler ,hell former and all their illegimate children on the internet like you) is automatically a man-child regardless ,even if he was joking then also it was in a quite poor taste ,if he really moved on from that outcome then he or any of his team member shouldn't bother to reply to anyone who is disagreeing with their wanks. Kuro (like the other meatriders of mid 10) still milks on a dead series to run his business.... Alien x is far from universal actually and even low tiers like goten can manhandle him easily 😂 You are just another sore loser (like that "skippy" guy from gvs3's comments section) who wants attention in a poor way. My advice would be to you that stop wanking ben 10 and get a life outside your cave instead you stupid troll (🫵🤡)
I feel like Kuro the artist is hated on too much. He's not the greatest content creator or analyzer, just a fan of a franchise that has been thrown away and left to rot. That's what we the Ben 10 community are 😔
Hal is able to be scaled to the feats of every other Lantern, since they all wield the same weapon, namely the Power Ring. If you have enough willpower, (and Hal does indeed), then you can accomplish the same feats. Simple really.
There are some episodes I either don't want to watch or revisit because of the character I like more losing or just not being done well, and sometimes it can be really draining talking about those episodes especially if it's one where I care much less about the actual verdict and more of the characterization of the character I like more, I don't think I have to explain why Ed vs Aang is one of those (It hurts double when you love both), but any time I mention I don't like Ganondorf vs Dracula because of how Ganondorf is handled the discussion immediately becomes possibly one of the most annoying things, and yea I can be pretty stern with it but that is also just due in part to me just being sick of Smash being used for animation purposes when he literally does not fight like that at all, seeing him be characterized as a mindless brawler who just goes in all the time again and again is irritating, combine this with how Zelda has been treated in the vs community for years just because of two specific episodes and you have a recipe for disaster for how I feel about stuff, the stuff I already don't like about it plus the discussions/arguments I get in about it just makes me not want to touch the episode at all again, Vader vs Obito will be hard to revisit again but I can at least watch it and enjoy how he actually feels like himself in the fight and how the analysis is pretty good despite the outcome which would bring me back to it. The discussion of DB episodes can be annoying at times, and even disagreeing (Or agreeing with in some of my circumstances) can get you in such hot water for no reason, it would be nice if eventually all that can die down and more people start to understand and see that vs is subjective.
I really like this analysis. It put into words some feelings I had that I was struggling to fully figure out myself. I honestly felt like I was biased for my dislike of this episode because I much prefer Ben over Hal, but in a similar episode of Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly I really loved the episode despite having similar love for Steven as opposed to Star. Thanks for the awesome video and thought provoking analysis
In my opinion the verdict does and doesn’t matter. Let’s say this: If po lost against iron fist or stitch lost against rocket most people wouldn’t have liked it as much because some of the first movie characters lost. Sure they still liked the episode but they would have been happier if they won. People are biased by nature so are always more happy when one character wins than another. I love Kirby vs Majin Buu and sure if Kirby lost I wouldn’t have loved it as much but seeing my boy getting the respect was nice. It’s like how you hate ragna vs sol. Sure the verdict didn’t matter but the way they treated your character did. In guts vs dimitri if the first fire emblem character lost it would have soured the episode a bit. In conclusion sure it shouldn’t really matter but seeing your preferred character get the respect they deserve and winning will always make people happier.
@@e1iteyoshi998 That Steven lost or how he was represented. He was represented great in the fight with him being extremely kind and not wanting to fight until he went pink and became murderous like in the show.
Something I've always wondered about that death battlle: What about Ben's ability to use the omnitrix to modify the DNA of an entire race on voice command? Couldn't he use that to turn Green latern into a bug? Just like Dr. Animo did with a single piece of the omnitrix in one of the episodes of the original series.
when is it said to have the ability to modify an entire species at will? didn't animo have to build an entire machine to amplify it and acheive that specific power? hal's specifically genetic tampering by cosmic god weapons before and can actually do the same thing, i'm just curious about the omnitrix power.
@@danielwilson8604 Ben literally used voice command to modify the DNA of the entire Highbreed race in the finale of alien force. And has accidentally modified Kevin and Gwen, his own parents in the movies, Rook, many plumber trainees, villains and even Azmuth himself. And future Ben can even fuse alien species. Keep in mind that Dr. Animo managed to use this ability of the Omnitrix to modify DNA just by having one single piece of the omnitrix to work with. Now imagine the power that Ben has to modify DNA of others in an instant with the entire Omnitrix at his disposal.
@@giboit. fair enough, it still likely wouldn't do much in this situation, and completey drained the battery when we saw it, but you are completely right that it can alter an entire species. i wouldn't call the fusion thing the same though, it's just editing the archetypes the omnitrix uses to transform ben.
@@danielwilson8604 It only runs out the battery when it's used on universal scale, like in the case of the Highbreeds. It can totally modify the DNA of single individual as if it was nothing without issues. And I think the fusion feature is relevant because it massively increases Ben's potential in battle.
@@giboit. wfair enuogh, it still wouldn't actually do anything to someone who can resist genetic modification or alteration to his personal reality. and the fusion feature would be an interesing addition, but wouldn't change much. hal has pretty much all of ben's powers, but can use more at once, even with the fusion feature, without sacrificing any power to do so. would have been cool to see though.
Okay, so. Originally I was going to wait until the season 6 ranking to give my GARGANTUAN opinions on the episode, as I'm a massive Ben 10 fan (like, right in between a casual who watches it time to time, and Kuro) but if you're going to make it far easy for me by making an entire video just for it, I might as well do it already. (and sorry in advance if my comment takes like a bajillion years to load if you don’t have much space left) First of all, AMAZING job. Jesus H tap dancing Christ. A 42 minute video all about the existence of the Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan Death Battle AND the impact it had on the internet as a whole?! That's it. You gained a subscriber. But for real, here is what I think of the episode: I didn't enjoy it very much Don’t get me wrong. It’s not a BAD episode per say, there’s definitely other cartoon episodes far worse (looking at you, Danny Jake) and I can see why many people would like it, but I didn’t think it was AS good as other people do. Most of it comes from the Ben 10 side of the episode and how IIIIIIIIIIII(just a reminder that this entire comment is my subjective take on the video so please be civilized)IIIIIIIIIIII did not like it as a fan of the show, like at all. Starting with Ben’s analysis,there are 4 things that grind my gears: 1-The characterization of Ben Tennyson. There is none. Sure, they start it really interesting by basically recapping the first episode of the show (how he wasn’t that different from any other kid, was about to embark on a really boring summer vacation, and they even brought up the original intro of the show, for both the background music as well as the lyrics), mentioned how his quick thinking has save him from a lot of situations, and how bratty he’s as a 10 year old. AAAAAAAAND that it’s. Yep, what feels like less than 10 seconds of characterization, there’s no more Benjamin Kirby Tennyson for the rest of the analysis. Nothing about the rest of his personality, nothing about his relationships with others, nothing about how the Omnitrix has affected him in all the years he has worn it. Nothin’. So despite having his name on the title, as well as saying his name here and there, it’s really easy and justifiable to forget there was A character using the watch in the first place And look, I’m aware that DB has tackled fictional characters whose personalities are not their strong suit. In fact, just NOW at the start of the year we had Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead, LITERAL avatars without personality fighting each other. But to simply put it, Ben 10 DOES. HAVE. A PERSONALITY. So while I do not want DB to make a 10 minutes long character analysis on Ben 10, I would have liked to have more than just THREE really superficial quirks. 2-The worldbuilding. Hey, do you like the idea of DB exploring a franchise with over 10 years of content, the single most complex multiverse Cartoon Network has ever made, a great and colorful cast stacked with fan-favorites, and only name-dropping TWO. WHOLE characters? ‘Cause that’s NOT how it “completely” feels. Yeah, I know most people come for the aliens and their abilities, so I’m glad they were allowed to have to privilege of getting a name-drop, but at the same time. Where’s the creator of the Omnitrix and mentor figure to Ben, Azmuth? Favorite cousin, Gwen Tennyson? Even bigger mentor and experienced badass, Grandpa Tennyson? Bestest friend, Kevin Ethan Levin? Any other villain who got inside of his head and WASN’T Vilgax? My criticism isn't about DB NOT saying the name of every singular character Man of Action has ever created for almost 15 years, but how small they make the world of Ben 10 feel by only focusing on the marketable aliens. Aren’t they the appeal and whole point of the franchise? Yes, yes they are. Are they the ONLY interesting or relevant thing? HELL. NO. (Oh, as an example, just watch the part of the episode where they said Feedback was able to hold the Big Bang, and how they refer to Maltruant, the LAST. VILLAIN. PERIOD Ben has to deal with, as “robot supervillain”......) 3-The butchering of the Omnitrix. Yeah that’s right. I’m going as far as to say that DB ABSOLUTELY misunderstood the point of the watch. Look, considering all the writers and staff changing and leaving, as well as the fact that the in-universe creator, Azmuth, made the Omnitrix a butt-load of years ago, the truest reason of why it exists may never be revealed. But even then, whatever reason the watch was created: For understanding, amends; alien ark; Zennith, etc, they ALL shared one thing in common. ITS. NOT. A. WEAPON. Something that apparently DB didn’t understand when they portrayed the aliens as glorified Mega Man weapons. AND YES I’M GOING TO TO COMPLAIN TO AN INTERNET SHOW FOR SHOWING CARTOON ALIENS AS ONE TRICK PONIES AND NOT COMPLEX SPECIES BECAUSE. THAT. IS. THE. POINT. OF. THE. WHOLE. FRANCHISE. From Vilgax, passing though Inspector 13, to Albedo, everyone who sees and wants to use the Omnitrix as a weapon has always been shown as the WRONGFUL. VILLAIN. Because a weapon is the one thing the Omnitrix will ever be in the hands of Ben Tennyson. If you want to understand better what I’m talking about, I’ll recommend checking Nem’s videos about characters he doesn’t want on DB and how FURIOUS it makes him the idea of using real life animals on the show, as I think he explains and deliver the points way better than I ever could. 4-And lastly, what probably is my BIGGEST hot take on the Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan Death Battle, is this. The conclusion is not the only problem, Ben’s analysis is JUST AS BAD. There. I say it. And that’s because of one simple factor: They made Ben Tennyson UNDEFATABLE. No. This is not a hyperbole. I’m DEAD serious when I say the analysis portrayed Ben as a character who DOESN’T. LOOSE. Don’t believe? Well, then tell me one of his weaknesses as shown in the analysis. The watch has to recharge? Not anymore, thanks to master control. Ben’s immaturity could get in the way? What problematic immaturity? Didn’t you see how they IMMEDIATELY said that he grew out of it when he became a teen? Alien X has to convince his other 2 personalities to do something as simple as lifting a finger? What are you talking about? Ben has full control of Alien X after fighting the Galactic Gladiator. See what I mean? Every time when they “seem” to give Ben a weakness that could determine his success against Hal, they said “Nevermind, he doesn't have it anymore” And look, Ben Tennyson HAS weakness (both as a child, and even as an adult) that could cause him to lose the battle. What about him underestimating his opponents and getting cocky? Causing them to get the lead? The fact that, despite having master control, he can only use ONE alien at a time? (let’s say Ben wants to do an electric, fire, and ice attack, he has to transform to 3 different aliens one after the other, while Hal can just spawned 3 elemental attacks at ONCE) Any damage an alien takes (let’s say, a broken arm) is also taken by Ben? None of these actual, TRUE weaknesses Ben has that could make the idea of Green Lantern winning more believable before the conclusion are represented at all, so I will die on this hill before admitting that the conclusion did a solo job, when it’s just not the case. Everyone would have been far more forgiving (probably not that much, but definitely more) if only DB would have shown Ben Tennyson as someone who can and HAS loose. And some of you may be wondering: “Okay. We get it. You don’t like the Ben 10 fraction of the episode. Could you please, at the very least, talk about Green Lantern”. Well here’s the thing, I’m nowhere NEAR as passionate for Hal’s analysis; the fight; or the conclusion, as everyone else, people who have talked about those portions and have already taken the words outta my mouth. Green Lantern’s portion is better than Ben; Fight is flawed but at the very least solid; Conclusion sucks ch0des. Which brings me to my final, actually final, thing to say. The most frustrating part this whole episode, BY A LONG SHOT. Is the fact that my favorite web-series, has tackled my 2nd most favorite piece of fiction of all time (Adventure Time takes the cake), and YET, I ended up having a better time whenever they talk and discuss about ANY OTHER PART OF THE EPISODE that doesn’t focus Ben 10. Which sucks. Oh and if you’ve actually read this entire thing Johnathan. Great video, sorry for taking 2 hours of your life on a TH-cam comment.
@benjaminjara7312 You knocked it out of the park with the critique of Ben's anyslsis. I didn't even realize that they didn't list a single weakness for Ben that wasn't immediately contradicted.
This analysis knocked it out of the park. perfectly captured my reasons for why Ben 10 was just done incredibly poorly and made the entire fanbase of the show out to be dickbags..
I think the main problem people had was not THAT ben lost. But HOW ben lost. - A one sided time-travel strike is a cheap win, when both sides can time travel. - Detachment without the omnitrix reacting goes against multiple instances where the omnitrix reacts to preceived acts of detachment even before being touched. - The omnitrix not being autonomous when attached to Bens DNA is also directly contradicted by the show itself since his hand (despite still being linked to him, meaning it is not just autonomous but actually can overwrite Bens command) is actually controlled by the omnitrix. - And one of the most creative power switchers with the transformation that has the most diverse skilset goes full goku and just punches really hard. That does not show insight into the character. That shows they had a severe, and I mean SEVERE lack of research going into bens side. Would these factors change the outcome of the fight? I don't think so. But would it make the fight end on a better note? Absolutely. [A small gripe about your video tho: The Argument that people who point out bias are biased sounds good ... and that is where it ends. It is nonsense and you are better off not using phrases which get a pass only because they sound good but add zero value to the conversation and stigmitises a very legitimate concern. You are better than that.]
1. Ben has never time traveled without the help of either other people or devices. If Ben could time travel, he would have no need for the time cycles in "End of an era", and that was AFTER Ben gained control of Alien X. 2. The omnitrix has no failsafe for limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself from Ben's wrist. Cutting Ben's arm off is neither of those. Every time someone tried to cut Ben's arm off, he was saved by outside help, never by the omnitrix. Not that this matters because Hal's constructs are faster than the failsafe. 3. Ben is not particularly creative with his aliens. When he fought Galactic Gladiator, all Ben did was punch and kick, and didn't even do anything beyond basic stuff like that until he was grabbed and used clones to break out. Even when Galactic Gladiator grew bigger, Ben didn't even think "Hm...maybe I should do that too" instead literally going back on his deal with Bellicus and Serena by asking them for help. It is not in-character for Ben to use any of Alien X's more op abilities. Bellicus and Serena were the ones who recreated the universe, not Ben. The fandom heavily overplays Ben's intelligence. It is literally a running gag throughout omniverse that Ben is an idiot. He doesn't even solve any problems by himself. Even Rook comments on it.
@@tobymulema4430 An immature teenager who can't do shit without other people helping him is NOT smarter than an adult with decades of experience. Omniverse literally makes fun of Ben for being so dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Hal has literally killed multiversal gods who make anything in Ben 10 look like child's play, including Alien X. He can do more than "create big fists". Read the comics, not the non canon animated and live action stuff. Hal has decades more experience fighting than Ben. Ben has not even been alive for half as long as Hal has been fighting intergalactic threats. Stop trying to make Ben sound impressive, he's not. Not compared to Hal, anyway.
@@tobymulema4430 The best Ben has done is create ONE universe. That's it. You want me to name these multiversal gods? Ok let's start then. Darkseid Parallax Krona Spectre Superboy Prime Nekron Captain Atom Ion
thing is is that when alien x flicked hal, that's where the fight should have ended. also the series ends with Ben using the omnitrix to create the BIG BANG.
@@wiggard No the fuck he's not lmao 💀 all he did was create a universal whoop dee doo, hey guess what Anti-Monitor released an infinite amount of universes and he isn't even the strongest guy around.
A flick from a mere universal reality warper is not enough to even budge Hal. Alien X could punch Hal a billion times a second and Hal still wouldn't even budge. You're talking a universal being against a multiversal being, which is infinite universes.
@@justinalicea1590 that was the prototype omnitrix if you watched the tv show it wouldn’t take you much brainpower to realize the difference failsafes that Omnitrix gets after it recalibrates. The pulse was the first form of difference used to push anyone back so Ben could choose what alien he wanted to use to defend himself. After Ben got the perfect omnitrix in at the end of Ultimate he’s basically unkillable because the omnitrix will cycle through all of his alien forms and change into each one until it finds and alien that can survive whatever is trying to kill Ben. This is shown when he holds a universe destroying nuke in his hands and the omnitrix cycles through all his different aliens until it picked feedback. There are other failsafes shown throughout the series it is literally shown and told to the viewer throughout the series what each failsafes is and what they’re purpose is and what they does after being triggered.
@@debater452 if you can kill all the aliens in bend omnitrix individually then you have nothing to worry about. It’s not a no limits fallacy you’re just not thinking of a character that can kill alien X or feedback or any other overpowered alien ben can turn into.
@@justinalicea1590 I also literally said that there is a device specifically made to remove the omnitrix or did you just choose to ignore that part. Obviously one of the omnitrix’s weakness is advanced technology Cyborg could probably beat Ben before he transforms by just hacking into the Omnitrix. It literally took me 5 seconds to think of a DC character that can beat Ben based on a weakness he is shown to have. None of the green lanterns have anything that can bypass the omnitrix and it’s multiple failsafes it’s automatically a win for Ben since he can just keep transforming into different aliens. Ben won’t get tired since he’s never shown to become tired from transforming rapidly and it’s also the most effective way for him to fight since Hal wouldn’t be able to handle something like that.
if the failsafe pulse has a cooldown how didn’t the failsafe change him to a alien like you said diamond head it literally spammed change ben when he was stopping the universe from getting destroyed again
The alien x ben in the future would not have been erased, since Alien X is immune to the timeline being erased, and would have been able to follow green lantern and defeat him
Okay couple things: 1: Ben Singer never said he was a fan of Ben 10, I’m pretty sure he deliberately said he didn’t know anything about Ben 10 back on death battle cast (I believe it was the one with the community Death Battle Cast “Ben 10 Vs. Ten Ben Singers” back in DBC’s early days). Maybe he learned about it during research and enjoyed the show, but where exactly are you getting that from, was it the QnA itself? 2: I thought the sprites were from the Cartoon Network flash game “Battle Ready”? Maybe I’m mistaken (since I’m looking through the sprites now on another tab) 3: “I’m schizophrenic” references Alien X’s multiple personalities and maybe Hal Jordan’s decent into madness as a Parallax, but that’s a bit offensive if you ask me. 4: Mandrakk was defeated by multiple Green Lanterns on low power and multiple alternate universe Supermen’s heat vision burning him alive. Hal was not alone in the assault. 5: The U-Bomb was a device that would condense the universe down to a a quark, Hal Jordan disarmed it and the resulting deffusion gave off the energy equivalent of a supernova. I have no idea why Death Battle used that to support Universal Scaling when there are other far better examples and one of the reasons why I’m pretty pissed at them for it. You know besides Hal Jordan “ARRESTING GOD”. 6: Alien X can resist the effects of Time-Line Destruction because he literally survived the destruction of the universe, Time and Space included in that. (Confirmed by Duncan Roulo and addition CN comic sources). Thought I’d bring that up as well. 7- BIG ONE HERE: It’s pronounced Kuro (Kur-O) The Artist, The Ink Tank is the LLC company that he created out of his channel. I do actually agree with you that Kuro did straight up ignore a lot of the stats for Hal, I wish he had addressed them. But Liam did ignore a lot for Ben in episode and even on the QnA and even falsely addressing the context for Hal’s feats (yet two wrongs don’t make a right do they 😑) I actually don’t like Kuro’s 3rd video he made about the DB very much, for all the reasons you listed, but you did leave out how Liam literally got fact checked by Kuro playing the clip of how the Sotobro Effect works, which is where I feel his resentment comes from. But I don’t think there was any malicious or ill intent towards Death Battle shown in Kuro’s videos. Yet there is some condescension I wish wasn’t there and I do really wish he power scaled Hal Jordan. Just to be fair. I really agree with you there. As a Death Battle, Ben 10 and Ink Tank fan, I actually liked this video and the evidence you brought up. I agree with like 60% of your points and even look back on some of my own research despite my still heard beliefs. But to answer your question at the end: the verdict matters (at least in a conventional sense of trying) because the show’s literal tagline is “It’s our job to analyze their weapons, armor and skills to find out who would win a death battle”, and anything less of that (to me) would be considered misinformation (which apparently has previously happened before as you stated with Guts Vs. Nightmare). I especially have a problem with low balling characters on all fronts which I’m glad now they’re trying to manage, but when episodes become more unreliable like this and only have their great fights and music (Emerald Heroes is just the best track), it just becomes another "Vs Show" like Super Power Beat Down or Minute Melee or even DBX. It doesn’t feel right, and even for Ben to win or lose doesn’t matter, all that mattered was their execution of the information and portrayal of the characters. Which even for Ben he seems written a bit more juvenile for liking, but still. I do still watch and enjoy Death Battle A LOT, but they’ve lost more of my trust more than Kuro has here. They’ve been on air for years, growing with a production pipeline, there was no reason for the final analysis to be this sloppy and to pull a time travel misdemeanor. I saw my old blog was also shown in your montage here- 31:17 Its kind of outdated and some of the information and opinions I held at the time I don’t stand by now, but I’d recommend giving it a readover, some of the stuff Death Battle even mentioned is in there and I hoped to go into more of GL's feats than what Kuro did: comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/death-battle-ben-10-vs-green-lantern-my-thoughts-2023537/ I also did Ben 10 Powerscaling (so you know, I’ll claim my bias there): th-cam.com/play/PLms4jgyiXKuQd9NtC3wgr6mCnR368y3cT.html
that's not how the u bomb was defeated. it was disarmed by being shunted into hal's pocket dimension ring universe, which survived the full detonation, though that did set up future storylines. mandraak flat out ignored the effects of multiple supermen's heat vision until hal staked him. it's not the only time he's killed an immortal either. and hal only used other green lanterns to refill his power, which has established precedent in the series. also, the series establised that the anihlaarg ONLY affected space, not time. he's never survived timeline destruction and it's not consistent with how other beings outside of time handle the situation. and no, the sotobro effect doesn't trace all time travellers. if it did, ben would be able to tell that eon travelled back in time, vilgax and eon wouldn't be able to evade paradox and most relevant of all, paradox wouldn't be able to sneak up on alien x. he also wouldn't be capable of reching or affectig alien x if he were completely outside time, for that matter, since he's admitted he can't go, forexample, before the beginning of time, and that time travellers lose their powers if they leave time altogether. i respect what you're trying to say, but i lost a lot of faith i debunks because of this fight, especially when it comes to alien x. who's scaling borders on it's own entire canon in the eyes of it's fans. i am familiar with your rundown, but there are a number of assumptions, and logical gaps that mean i cannot agree with it.
@@danielwilson8604 U-Bomb: In The Green Lantern #6 and #7, Hal was blasted into his ring’s own micro universe which was dying as a result of a low charge, which his being there was caused by the U-Bomb. However it’s confirmed by Hal- “There was a U-bomb. I had to disarm it. Guardians diverted the entire out put of the Central Battery through my power ring-shot us into deep space- enough energy to kill me, but the ring-the ring would do anything to keep me alive-" There are better examples for Hal Jordan’s Universal scaling, but this Hal has aid from other lanterns, their lights literally flickering throughout the universe because of the power diversion. And Adam Strange at Hal’s funeral says the energy recorded was 10-to the 44th power joules, which is a supernova, confirmed in Death Battle: Captain Marvel Vs. Shazam. HE DISARMED IT. I am so done with this conversation point. Mandrakk: Mandrakk was getting burned and visibly effected by multiple blasts of heat vision in Final Crisis. Hal also had aid from other lanterns on low power in one last effort, not to refill his power, they did it together “So gimme one last effort team, ALL TOGETHER, AND SPIKE THIS VAMPIRE!”. Superman would have been killed if they had’t all showed up. Annialarg: While I can agree with inconsistencies of both Ben 10 and Hal Jordan lore, respectfully speaking….where are you getting the Annialarg information from? Because I can tell you…it’s false: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1667561066207801347 The Sotobro Effect: I’ve addressed this before here, but even then, it doesn’t matter. The timeline destruction point means that Alien X would be unaffected by Time Travel: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687267851382509568?s=20 and twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687280185953968128?s=20 Thoughts on your final statement: In all seriousness, I don’t care who wins anymore and I hate the debate now. I’m more pissed at some members of Death Battle for egging on this type of argument continuously and it’s pointlessness to both ends of Ben 10 and Green Lantern, which speaks volumes to the community at large. And yet I still defend Ben despite Duncan Roulou practically shooting himself in the foot saying “Alien-X-Stinction” is canon to Ben Prime. Where Alien X gets beat by Fourarms. So sure, Hal wins. Maybe. But if you’re talking about my blog or videos for “assumptions” or “logical gaps”, you’re probably right on some of it and I don’t stand by them strongly for those reasons now. I give you full marks for that and any error I find out or miss. But not to put too fine a point on it, you just said my statements on the U-Bomb, Mandrakk, Annialarg, and the Sotobro Effect were misconstrued…when they weren’t (unless future comic events in the Grant Morrison run do cover the U-Bomb for future storylines that I just don't know about). So I can’t really agree with you considering your “deliberately choosing the weakest possible outcome” for those events (Annialarg and Sotobro Effect).
@@lopresti101 thank you for replying and for adressing my points individually, you are correct about the u bomb, thank you for bringing these points to my attention and i apologize. however, i similarly stand by my statements about the anihlaarg and the sotobro effect, the wiki is referring to a statment that he can sense chornosapiens, but that statement is given as a reason they should use paradox's time powers to sneak up on him instead. the comic isn't part of the main canon while the show itself consistenly maintains the differences both before and after that point in the timeline, among other things. even having beings from outside the event's effects draw attention to them. i found it to be quite clever continuity writing. however, i won't try to force that point any harder, both as it's best explained visually and as you are clearly over the matter. i can understand that. i once again apologise for my tone. l was likely thinking of an older version of the post when i said that and i do appreciate you taking the time to correct it from that version. have similarly experieced a lot of bizzare answers, mainly over alien x. at least three people have accused me of making up the contemelia in an attempt to try and weaken alien x. or insisted that the trial episode didn't happen. you didn't deserve that tone though, i cannot apologise enough.
I think the analysis was the problem, if they had simple said Hal Jordan is multiversal, the DC universe is 100 trillion times bigger than ours... And Hal survived a DC universe complete destruction and DC's big bang... Yeah, I don’t think Alien X can ever reach that level in a single fight. In any case, I think it was a giant presentation problem
What are you on about? Alien X is 26th infinite dimensional AT, THE, VERY, LEAST. Hal Jordan comes in NO WAY, at the 15th dimensional tier of power, let alone the 26th. Please know your facts.
@@sugardady1019 Alien X is not 26D. Ben 10 doesn't have dimensional scaling, as seen by how the 5D Contimella made a barrier to protect themselves against the creation of a universe. And no, the Ben 10 universe is not infinite. We see its finite size from the space beyond it and when it is first born from the Big Bang.
@@Student-c6k ?????????? Are you ok? That universe argument is extremely dumb because we can see an entire universe in dbz yet we take it as an infinite space with other 6 infinite sized pockets. Anyways, celestilsapiens are in charge of the Ben 10 cosmology, which actually have undefined amounts of dimensions. 26D is an EXTREME lowball, and doesn’t even make sense, considering there are far more dimensions that exist. How delusional can you be?
This is an interesting video to discover your channel from. I will say that I grew up with Ben 10 so I’m 100% biased in his favor but I know that outside of Batman characters most DC characters are cracked. I feel Hal wins though I feel the fight itself was pretty disappointing as someone who returned to watching DB with the episode. My main issue is how weirdly Ben is represented. Like you’ve seen the Kuro video so seeing Kid Ben pulling out Alien X is the same energy as seeing like Classic Megaman use a Megaman X ability. As someone who adored the franchise seeing them only use Original Series aliens (and Alien X) then proceed to blue ball the fans by bringing up numerous cool aliens Ben used and their stats…it really hurts man. Also stings learning apparently there was a cut scene with RATH and they cut it????? I feel in retrospect Ben 10 is legit one of the harder fighters to use with the budget DB fights have, but man I just wanted to see the Ben I watched over the years and see some of the cooler stuff like Atomix, Crash Hopper, Chromastone, and Buzzshock. I heard apparently they want to use Ben again in the future and honestly I support them doing it I feel they can improve using Ben in the future (the DBX was…alright? I like that they used more aliens but also seeing every alien’s sprite be literally the Official art but pixelated takes me out of the fight constantly) I really enjoy hearing your thoughts on this especially seeing you cover the Kuro videos since while I use to agree with him on some parts the composite Ben bit was so scuffed! Welp…time to go through your Catelog and catch up on your content. Amazing video!!
Great video. It really does surprise me that this is one of the most controversial episodes in DB history. I actually love the episode. When I saw the teaser, it immediately made sense to me. I watched Ben 10 a lot growing up and Hal is my favourite GL. A complaint I will say that the time travel was not necessary. Or at least probably shouldn't have been the climax. I didn't know about GL's time manipulation so it took some time for me to wrap my head around it. I'm glad they didn't go too crazy as this isn't like Cable vs Booster Gold; them battling through time would have jumped the shark a bit. I would've preferred them just battling through space and to the edge of the universe they seem to love to mention. Kuro throwing his hat in the ring was something I was surprised by but wasn't shocking. I followed him for a time and once I saw the debunk it was exactly what I expected. I don't think I watched the others as I could smell the salt from the thumbnails. Not to bash Kuro as I do respect the guy but I know a wounded fan boy when I see one (takes one to know one). The episode has flaws, especially in the wrap up but this episode is ony top 10. I enjoyed it a lot despite the bad reception.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
*Please read before commenting*
I've been getting a lot of great and insightful comments, so to everyone being civil, props to you. That said, I made a follow-up video addressing a few of the criticisms because this video really needed more time in the oven:
th-cam.com/video/lVhHddtPY_A/w-d-xo.html
Now I'll address a few smaller things I've been seeing:
"You were way too aggressive towards Kuro"
You're right. Even though I said multiple times that I respect Kuro and have no beef with him, my tone was actively saying the opposite. I won't excuse it. I will take the L.
"Isn't Goku vs Superman more hated?"
You could argue that its impact is bigger since it literally spawned the existence of Death Battle debunk videos, and they even have more dislikes (even if it's by virtue of having way more views), but in terms of like-dislike ratios, Ben vs GL's is technically worse, currently having a 56% ratio as opposed to the other episodes having at least 90k more likes when compared to their dislikes. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I can definitely see that. I'll accept buying into clickbait, though, as I did want that snazzy title.
"Hal going back in time to kill Ben is such a low blow, especially since it was Kid Ben when it should've been Teen Ben"
Again, I'm right there with you. However, the reason why I didn't address it is that they didn't want to have a third "explosion death" in a row and wanted to go with something more creative for once, so I chose to base my criticisms around that and what it should've looked like. Then again, an explosion death probably should've been used regardless, but whatever. As for Teen Ben, refer to what I said about the available sprites.
Now for a couple of other points:
1. I agree that the ending with Hal going back in time would not actually work. The only reason I didn't mention it in the video is because I forgot to bring it up. My b. I've also gotten comments from people saying that it's a low blow. That's also something I can agree with.
2. Just in case I need to mention this, too, I have nothing against Death Battle debunks. When I say "it's unfair to criticize the episode for outside factors", that's only in the context of reviewing the full episode. Debunks are meant to tackle the research and arguments that Death Battle is using and doesn't take any other aspect of the episode into account (unless if they mention how the animation contradicts a point they made in the conclusion), so on that front, it's fair to use outside factors. I feel like I should've made a distinction between reviewing an episode and debunking it, and I didn't think about it until the last minute, but I had no time to work it in the video somewhere.
Anyways, links that I mentioned earlier. Check these out to get a better understanding of the matchup:
Ben vs Hal G1 prediction blog: g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2019/05/death-battle-predictions-ben-10-vs.html
Ben vs Hal analysis by Spider Pidge: www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057
Kuro's Alien X video: th-cam.com/video/_88RUVr9WaM/w-d-xo.html
Other links:
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Q&A: th-cam.com/video/SQujpsgd428/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
How Ben Wins Without Alien X by Kuro: th-cam.com/video/i3meGRifraM/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Kuro's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern analysis: th-cam.com/video/f-jkS1zu5Cg/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Ben vs Hal Q&A Response by Kuro: th-cam.com/video/nCN6fZZQ-cc/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Nemesis Bloodryche's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Review: th-cam.com/video/1ppVbqezvSY/w-d-xo.html
I read all of the information on 28:44 and it all seems agreeable since I have seen all of the seasons debunked videos. (also to forgot to sub after seeing all of the death battle debunked's my bad. putting this in my comment to tell you that I have subbed to you.)
DanCo did a video for B10 vs GL too, you can add him as well.
if i may? the time travel thing mostly likely WOULD work based on in series ben 10 rules. two of his villains have used it against him (one in the show, and one in the comics) and even with clockwork's powers, ben couldn't tell the difference between someone being vaporised and someone being sent back in time. in a less lethal capacity, ben's altered his own present at least twice onscreen.
I have a question about the bit where you showed the reddit post about Morganna. Did you actually pay to have that video advertised, or did someone edit that image to slander you?
Also I think Ink Tank thought Four Arms broke Hal's shield because of the overlap with the shield and the broken windows behind him.
Not only did Ben lose, he died in the exact 1 way that would be IMPOSSIBLE to use against him. Alien X can follow Time Waves from Time travel, similar to how Flash can follow Time Travelers, and Hal using a giant pair of scissors was something Vilgax tried EXACTLY and the Omnitrix prevents SPECIFICALLY.
The omnitrix only prevents instant death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not limb amputation.
@@Vindication1134The series doesn't give a definitive answer on what doesn't constitute a threat to Ben, besides obviously things that have zero chance of killing him. However, the Omnitrix often acts in a way that seems like it has intent, and understands the current intent of outside forces (in writing terms it's a limited but powerful form of plot armor); which is why Vilgax was using a specific machine to remove the watch without actually providing a deadly threat to Ben the moment it would have been removed, and only planned on harming Ben after. Therefore Green lantern could have been amputated, but he also would need to intend to stop the bleeding.
So I do think there's ways green lantern could have won and honestly I can't even be bothered to be mad at who wins in the end. What did bother me was that it was obviously clear that both parties definitely did not fight to the full extent of their abilities, and the fight ended with a cheap shot that was easily preventable by Ben. Be it that the either Alien X followed Hal, or that the Omnitrix; sensing Ben's distress at something about to cut off his arm, assumes deadly force is about to be inflicted and turns Ben into an Alien that can either be alright without an arm; like Swampfire, or is too durable to cut. I can accept that they were limited by time and resources when it came to actually showing what a full on fight between the two would look like, but don't make the ending something that can be disproved by two minutes of research.
@@Vindication1134how is cutting off the part of the arm the watch is on not removal
Simply reading Alien X's wiki powers explain why everyone hated the ending.
"Alien X can survive a timeline destruction" meaning even if he killed young Ben. The future Ben as Alien X would still exist.
Also Alien X can technically time travel himself, it's basically god mode in sandbox on drugs, hard drugs. Surviving the destruction of a universe and creating one itself.
So Lantern time traveling could also be applied to Alien X following him or simple reversing back to before he told him etc.
Time travel is a bag of worms you shouldn't use when it applies to both parties. Cause it's a dumb and very contrived.
@@Vindication1134That would be true, except for the fact that this literally happened to Ben in the show. Instead of his hand simply being chopped off, Ben got teleported to what I believe is the null void while his hand was walking around on Earth.
In the end, I think it was more the inconsistent and lacking research that annoyed people rather than just the verdict.
You can't dislike a death battle without everybody just assuming it's because the character you like lost
Eh a lot of casual vs-debater and many reaction channels ONLY care about the verdict and complain afterwards if their character lost.
Also in that rant they love bringing up the prejudices:
"Death Battle hates anime", "DB is biased against dbz" and so on.
@@heyguysxd Yeah that's just fucking Immature, Goku isn't beating somebody who can teleport with mere movement, Goku loses to Superman
I say both equally
....goku can do that too..
My biggest gripes with this battle are the death and the fact that they just made Alien X look like another flying brick.
For the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix they made him look weak. Alien X is supposed to have supreme power over the entire universe, And they make him have the Shadow clone jutsu and punching. He could have beaten that fight in a second.
the only reason alien X was boxing in the series is it is bec he was fighting another clestial sapien, him doing it in the death battle is clearly a point they made that green lantern is atleast has the stats to nulify every haxx alien x got, no ?@@ImADeity
Ok, go back and watch Ben 10 Omniverse he literally has as a flying brick because Ben is pretty dumb.
The coolest thing he's done is:
Universal Creation
Black Hole
Some Lame Telekinesis
Minor Time Manipulation
@@l0sts0ul89 ben dumb? wow you say go back to the series but don't even know the first about ben. literally one of the most battle hardened characters. literally all good hax and more what you mean?
@@faith4657
With his godly power, instead of ya know fixing the Plumbers Kids and removing their powers or something what does he do? Make them fight like Legos, all he did was punch while in Alien X.
Also "one of the most battle hardened characters" is giving Ben too much credit, he's not.
I genuinely think the only reason this episode is hated so much, is just because of the scissors, the scissors completely contradict what they said in the analysis about the Omnitrix catching the Big Bang, that literally feels like it, it’s just the scissors being so damn slow
Definitely.
For me it was both that and the fact that ben lost. Not to mention they took 10 year old ben with a prototype omnitrix instead of his prime
@@Yes_nuggetUsing 10yo Ben was a stupid idea even if it was just for looks and DB's research and scaling of a character is almost always pathetically wrong but the winner was right. Ben 10 isn't even scratching Hal. One is arguably high outerversal if not higher, the other is hyberversal if you're being extremely generous.
@@liamdealmeida9914 I disagree, ben should have won. I can think of two aliens that can beat Hal, alien x (obviously) and clock work. Alien x can do literally anything, Hal isn't winning against that. And clockwork could could simply stop time and then fire a time beam that will age his body rapidly, killing him instantly.
@@Yes_nugget While both are powerful, they just can't compete with someone on Hal Jordan's level.
Most of Alien X's abilities won't work on Hal, GL has been shown to resist similar abilities from much more powerful characters, whether it's Pre/Post-Crisis, New52 or Rebirth Hal. Alien X being able to "do literally anything", means what? He has matter and time manipulation, erasure, mind control and transmutation, maybe reality warping (GL has most of these too)? These abilities are fairly common and usually (except for time manip), scale to the user, meaning they more often than not, won't work on someone massively more powerful eg. Giorno (JoJo's) or Gilgamesh (Fate) would have better luck (aka causality manipulation) than Lucky Girl (Gwen) or King (OPM), to the point where they can dictate what happens opposed to it just being luck to them. A better example is how mind control from someone like Puppet Master didn't work on Hulk but it worked much better from Xemnu or Thanos.
Stopping time means absolutely nothing because GL has immeasurable speed, so he can travel through time with raw speed alone, I'm pretty sure he even has irrelevant speed though, but you only need inaccessible speed to move during stopped time. I don't recall Hal having age manipulation resistance, but he can also age things, someone aged a tree to a stump with a replica of his ring and he once aged himself into being an old man and casually managed to de-age himself back to normal. I'd imagine he does have resistance to it, seeing that other lanterns haven't used this ability on each other, he just allowed it to happen to himself. Even if he didn't, he is just infinitely more powerful and faster so it doesn't matter. Ben is a statue in comparison, so Hal speed blitzes and one-shots/erases him before he can even use the move. If it does hit him, he just reverses the effects.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with all this power scaling jargon, which is understandable, you're not expected to as long as you're respectful. If you need me to elaborate on stuff, I'll do my best to explain. I can understand why people would believe Ben wins but he just hasn't done much that Hal hasn't dealt with or anything that can put him anywhere near most JL members in power. To put the power gap into perspective, Alien X is probably at low complex multiversal, so 4D to 6D, each dimension is more than infinitely above the previous one. Hyperversal starts at 12D and can go on to infinite dimensional, so ♾D. You can then go above this by being outerversal, above the concept of dimensions as a whole and there are still levels to this. While Hal isn't an outerversal being in nature, he has outerversal attack potency (power) and durability meaning he can destroy outerversal structures. If you want any proof of Hal being at this level I'll find some examples and use some chain-scaling.
I liked the part where Hal said “Time huh? Thanks for the tip” and then proceeded to go to a restraint and tip all the waiters. Truly one of the death battles of all time
Based Hal for doing that!
And that's how Costal City was saved.....which turned out to be the catalyst for the Emerald Paradox(okay not really)...but that would be so hilarious.
Truly a wonderful hero, I hope he doesn’t murder a child😌
In a positif way or in a negatif way? You need to put an adjectif in your sentence so people can understand what you mean!
@@SuperPlacido1 but they don't really though
I think the reasons Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is so hated is because
1. Green Lantern is not known to time travel to the mainstream so watching him time travel will make tons of people confused
2. Traveling back in time to kill your opponent at an vulnerable state is the most Disrespectful and cheap way to kill someone so it would make a lot of people Ben 10 fans upset
3; hal kills a child
4) Ben has that power too. He literally could have followed Hal and showed up before him.
2 especially because it makes no sense that why Ben can't simply do that
ya they made ben stand there like an idiot
Ben could also travel in time and his watch does not let its wearer die, the moment his arm is cut off automatically it should transform him into an alien that can regenerate it
I'm not mad about that Ben lost. I just didn't like how they portrayed him. He had an older voice with aliens from the newer omnitrix. At that point just use teenage Ben lol
The only alien outside the original 10 that he used was Alien X
@@sev1120 nope. Waybig
@@smartpatrick8690 Way Big is part of the original series. I should've said that instead
I heard that the reason why they used young Ben 10 was because he was more popular than the older version but I might be wrong as this was 4 years ago when I heard this
@@roobyrne3075Kid Ben was mainly used because the team didn’t have access to Teen Ben sprites and ultimately them using Kid never had an effect on the outcome
One thing I'd like to add is how stupid the time travel part of the animation was.
"I control time"
"Time, huh?"
*Uses time to kill him*
Imagine that with any other character.
Aquaman: "I command the oceans"
"Oceans, huh?*
*Throws water balloon that kills Aquaman*
OR
Batman: "I fight for my parents"
"Parents, huh? Martha."
*Batman falls over crying*
Naturally that's going to piss some people off.
There are just so many plot holes with this. First of all, the Omnitrix will instantly activate its failsafes against it’s removal and death of it’s owner, so what makes Death Battle think Hal could bypass this? Also, Present Ben as Alien X would chase after Hal after he time traveled to the past via Sotobro Effect and stop him from killing Past Ben (which is impossible because of anti-death failsafes.) Even if somehow Hal did kill Past Ben, it’s still pointless as Present Ben would still be alive and kicking as Alien X because Celestialsapiens aren’t affected by time and space at all. And according to Paradox in Omniverse, every time you travel to the past you only create a branch of new timelines, therefore leaving the original timelines unchanged. You see there are just so many plot holes and it would so much more for Ben to simply negate Hal’s ring, blink him out instantly and be done with it.
"I can fly"
"Fly, huh?"
*Goku flies all over Superman*
I find this funny as hell
Especially when their QnA argument to debunk him following is "hal went back first so he wouldn't get there in time." like bro that's not how time travel works, he can go to LITERALLY any point he wants to not just the same amount of time that Hal went back.
@@calvinkopp1735I got you.
Hal simply just outstats. Ben’s only alien that actually stands any chance base for base against Hal is Alien X, and even giving Ben the benefit of the doubt and saying that he’s as strong as characters that can overpower Superman and Martian Manhunter, its a stalemate until Ben’s forced to change tactics and eventually gets overwhelmed.
My issue isnt necesserely that Ben lost. Its HOW he lost. Ben deserves a proper defeat, not some bullcrap that would never have worked. Give us a proper Alien X VS Hell Battle where at the end Hell manages too destroy the Omnitrix, not simply cut it off Bens arm wich WOULDNT WORK.
I felt the same way. Like the basics I know about Hal i can believe it could possibly win, but how they showed it just didn't make any sense at all
Yeah it was such a weak conclusion, you end the whole figth by basically preventing the fight from happening in the first place and attacking from behind at a vulnerable moment, doesn't it take away the point of doing a battle to see who is stronger in the first place? I mean, in that case what stops Ben from doing the same? Just time travel back in time to a point where Hal's ring is with 0 charge or he isn't wearing it and kill him when he dosen't see him comming, where's the fun in that?
@@silverbreaker9271 Exactly. Ore go back when Hel tried too recharge his ring during there battle and destroy the Lantern.
Expect cutting off his arm literally would work, it literally happens,
@@l0sts0ul89 But that wasnt with some regular scissors but with a hyper advanced weapon that send Ben too another dimension but kept his hand in the regular dimension, but they where still connectet. When the Omnitrix transformd, Ben transformed as well, when the hand moved and jumped arund, Ben was pulled along. That was a entirley diffrent scenario.
As someone who had been watching kuro since his first video, based on some stuff he has said in the past, I believe that the reason he said he'd rather than death battle "never touched the character" is less so because of any of his feelings and more because it forced him to make those 3 videos. In a lot of videos he has said that he actually doesn't really know or care that much about powerscaling and mainly just wanted to give ben 10 some respect that he felt he lacked (which is something I appreciated back when I discovered his channel too because I also felt like I couldn't comfortably talk about this show I've loved for half my childhood up until kuro's efforts). The bad part of kuro becoming the accidental ambassador of the ben 10 community is that he ended up feeling forced to address and respond to any issue the fandom had even if it was something he didn't necessarily wanted to do, the death battle videos being one of those, I believe he initially didn't even want to make any videos on it or more than 1 video on it so by the end of the third he felt that the harm the episode caused to him by indirectly making him make videos he didn't really want to outweighed the parts he liked and just wished it hadn't happened so that he wouldn't have made those videos.
the progression about that thing is so clear on his side too. he was just tired of it
I'd get tired of that crap too. I feel bad for Kuro.
Tbf, he never *had* to make those videos. At the end of the day he was the one who wrote the script, recorded the dialogue, edited the video, and then uploaded it. It definitely does suck to hear, but he could've very well just ignored it. You can't really blame death battle for that
@@afro025 that is why even that certain event was still not over, he stopped responding. Ofcourse it's partly his fault upon shouldering the voices of the community.
@@afro025 yeah I definitely wasn't implying it was all the fault of either party. I just wanted to shed some light on why he said that he wished they never touched the character. Shortly after those videos he actually had announced that he was going to stop making videos and give control of the channel to his 2 occasional co-hosts, even did a big "history of ben 10 animated" event that was supposed to be his "epic finale" but even then he returned to making videos some time later and has seemed to be happier ever since. I believe that in that period of time where he wasn't making videos he probably realized that being the go-to content creator for ben 10 didn't make him automatically accountable for any random community drama he may or may not want to invest time into.
The weirdest part of the battle aside from Alien X throwing hands, is that Green Lantern just 1-shots all of the clones somehow
Yeah it didn't make sense
@@vorrdegard2176and also Alien X disintegrating Hal like thanos doesn’t make sense. As Kevin said “They(celestialsapiens) could just blink and we’d be gone”
@@SuperDestroyerFox Because existence erasure of that level doesn't work on hal
@@raiden7554 why would it thanos him then
Those Alien X clones aren't like Shadow Clones, they're all just as capable of anything as the original. Ben could simply overwhelm Hal with infinite clones until the ring's charge is gone and finish him off.
My take:
1.Presentation:
Even though Death Battle goes with the peak version of a character or sometimes a composite version for some reason they decided to use young Ben as their representative instead of Omniverse Ben. This also follows into the aliens they use since a majority of them use Classic Ben designs instead of a custom or Omniverse which makes it very confusing for those who arent aware than Ben is 17 years old canonically at the end of the origonal series.
2. The line up of aliens:
Way Big and Alien X made sense. Four Arms as a starter to grasp the difference in strength was fine and so was Heatblast. But we didnt get guys like Atomix, Chromastone, Upchuck or Feedback, aliens that they listed off as some of his best picks that didnt even show up to make things interesting. The fight only really got good once he went Way Big.
3. Logic:
Even if you were to say Ben was to lose to Hal the fact they completely ignored the failsafe that stops the wearer from dying was complete crap. A better option would be to make the omnitrix go into self-destruct mode then stop Ben from turning it off so that he blows himself up. And this is ignoring the worse moment of the fight where Hal just time travels and Alien X just lets it happen without a fight he doesnt follow him and fight in the time stream or just pulls a Bite za dusto. It was just stupid for the sake of an ending.
They didn't ignore the failsafe, they just didn't go into detail about it in the episode itself, which was the biggest issue.
@@comicking428 yeah I know the failsafe itself has a lot of ambiguity to it but I still felt it was a lil dumb so just ignore it like that.
If the failsafe was able to transform him fast enough to catch the big bang and shoot it like a weapon, He should have been able to dodge scissors
@@ImADeity and Hals constructs are faster then the big bang
@@l0sts0ul89 try being faster when your opponent can't die, also speed inconsistence much.
It really says something about the episode when it’s not just getting the fully scripted segment treatment but the whole entire video treatment
The entire Ben 10 vs GL debacle was an undeniable mess. The episode itself is average at best with some considerable flaws that caused the backlash that it did.
For starters, the overall analysis for both characters was fine. It did a pretty decent job at summarizing the characters, what they were about, and a basic rundown of their abilities.
The animation though is where the issues start rearing their ugly head. With the animation itself, I think it’s cohesive enough & the animators did a great job. The sound design was also well done. The directive choices of the fight is what I take issue with. First off, I understand why they chose to represent Ben with his kid model. It’s the most iconic & recognizable look he has. Considering his opponent though, it might’ve been better to use Teenage Ben; as you avoid the controversy of a full-grown adult offing a kid if he won.
The next issue is the choreography of the overall fight. The fight up to Alien X is good. You get to see a variety of powers from both sides, fun interactions, and some quirks from both combatants. When Alien X arrives however; we start getting interpretations of both characters that are very inaccurate to their portrayals & the fight starts becoming unbelievable. The fight ends with GL using an ability he isn’t known for having before he finishes off a kid in a way that makes 0 sense & is very disrespectful to his opponent, which is also completely out of character for Hal; Killing restrictions removed from their personality or not.
The final 2 nails in the coffin comes from the closing analysis. For starters, the closing remarks were super vague about how GL managed to secure a win, and it left me as well as the audience unsatisfied with the conclusion. What’s worse, the actual good arguments for why GL could feasibly win was left to be answered in a Q&A segment, because Deathbattle couldn’t be bothered to do a lengthy explanation for why they chose a winner overall. Leaving your strongest arguments out of an episode is just a bad judgment call.
All that said, I’m actually glad this episode got as much flack as it did. It was a needed wakeup call for the team. Since this episode, I feel the team takes the debate aspect as well as showing off characters in a more accurate light (in most cases). They’ve certainly gotten better, and in matchups that are far messier to decide a winner, (Take DIO vs Alucard for instance), they take their time and address every possibility for why they went with their winner & made sure all the possible bases are covered. I honestly believe Deathbattle would not be as polished as it is today if episodes like Ben vs GL didn’t kick them in the pants & the team didn’t take valid criticism to heart.
If you read through this long winded post, I honestly thank and applaud you for doing so.
I love the idea of this episode being something of a wakeup call. That's probably the perfect way to describe it ngl.
Nah, the "wakeup call" the Ben 10 fanbase wanted was for them to believe that "Lel aLiEn X sOlos" and "bUt mUh fAiLsAfE". The Ben 10 fanbase was stuck in their delusion of Alien X being some omnipotent god who solos fiction, and they were upset that Death Battle didn't think the same. I've legit seen people think Alien X is on par with TOAA and The Presence.
I will agree about the fight
The sprite in the fight was off.
Them having a wake up call is why I think Wally vs Archie did better than Ben vs Hal, both episodes involved the DC character beating a character mostly known for being unbeatable to a fan base that can’t/won’t accept otherwise, but Wally vs Archie didn’t end up as controversial because, like you said, they addressed every reason why Wally wins in great detail, so your assessment is extremely accurate
@@mrmisterman2874you sure? Because I've seen a lot of people that kept on saying Archie Sonic should have won and that Archie Sonic beats Wally in basically every aspect.
Being reminded of this death battle only further reinforces my belief that its almost always going to be obvious who the winner is based almost entirely on how old the character is and how much source material they can call upon.
like my belief is that Ben lost because they almost never went into higher threat levels that require heavier hitters like Way Big or Alien X, and kept the scope of the show mostly on Earth when the most interesting things happened off in space, Hell apparently Alien X isn't even the strongest in the Omnitrix base on Dareks comment, but it doesn't matter since we never got to hear or see anything about it.
that statement was debunked
Alien x is the strongest alien
celestial sapiens are literally the creators of everything and are stated to be the literal staff of ben 10
@gadlygamer That wad also a joke by the writers.
@@gadlygamer ...no? what? we've met the actual creators of the multiverse and it's not the celstialsapiens.
@@danielwilson8604 celestial sapiens are literally above everything
the forge of creation is above the contemelia
With the likes of DC comics being like 80 years old that sure as hell is true with the fact that every god damn dc comic is canon to one another or someshit.
Cool to see folks still talking about this!
yo thats cool
So true.
Like Death and Taxes its Eternal
Are you not gonna respond to the criticisms towards you? Nothing you said proved Ben was faster, etc. Hal still outstats Alien X
@@Bleeperblopper497what do you mean how does the stuff he said doesn't prove it?
I think the main problem is that nothing said in the initial video, and even afterwards, actually give Hal the win. There is no reason to believe the fail safe has a cooldown, Vilgax had the Omnitrix hand in a specialized machine when he attempted to cut it off (and it’s never shown to actually work), and making any judgments on the limitations of Alien X is foolish when aside from a few crew statements and Agregore’s plan to absorb a baby Celestialsapien we aren’t given any limits.
Also going on the omnitrix fail safe, it’s faster than the Big Bang, plus if Hal’s constructs are classified as energy then Feedback alone wins. (I don’t know a lot about the lanterns so correct me if I’m wrong) also even if Hal destroyed diamond head he’ll regenerate also the best transformation would have been goop
@@gundamandyugioh4184 Green Lantern can re-absorb energy
@@gundamandyugioh4184 they aren't actually classified as energy. at least not one that obeys any given laws of physics. he can freely transform it into any kind of energy he wants, including magic or sonic, or even something like antimatter. rookie green lanterns are vulnerbale to things like black holes bending light, but experienced lanterns are not.
he also has a number of tricks to deal with energy absorbers and can just... win tug of war matches with them. the first time he ever absorbed the central battery he did so to prevent another being from doing it, and not only absorbed it faster but took the power away from him.
it's technically the raw fuel of all reality, including dimensions like the new gods realsm and afterlife. and absorbing hal's specific energy kind of... turns you into an extension of hal, anyway. it's described as"omnijectively real" and the thing which powers the source wall
an omnitrix technician in every series claims you can cut it off, and the one time it seems to prevent his hand being cut off, the episode actually points out the weapon malfuntioned, it wasn't the omnitrix's doing. plus, you can't assume no limits on alien x since he's shown to fall short several times in the series.
to do otherwise is to just give him unlimited benefit of the doubt while ignoring hal's own experience killing immortals and omnipotent beings.
@@danielwilson8604 where in the series is that stated? Cause again it’s fail safe would prevent that. Like an Omnitrix technician? First I’m hearing of it, unless it’s from the reboot which is not canon to the Prime timeline so where is that stated. I genuinely would like to know
You have a point with Alien X though
The big issue is the scissor thing, the failsafe protected Ben from the Big Bang and if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix from AF he had his hand severed by a portal but omnitrix reanimated his hand and stayed linked to the severed wrist keeping him from bleeding out so really the method of Ben losing was just really stupid, there are plenty of ways Hal could have won the fight but cutting his hand off was stupid
Agreed.
the hand was severed by that axe...the energy field the axe produced was what stopped ben from bleeding...the omnitrix had his hand move on its own sure but the axe teleported ben away from his hand
@@metalmario1231 yes and as I said only if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix, however they show the prototype which multiple times prevents it’s own removal & even flips out when Vilgax tries to cut his arm off & he begins randomly transforming for the remainder of the encounter & the final omnitrix failsafes to protect him while he’s human to enable him to survive a universe creating/destroying bomb at point blank range, so unless they’re only using one omnitrixes logic that isn’t even shown rather than the one shown or the most current then it’s kinda cherry picking ain’t it?
m
@@Dreadwing1000 That is incorrect. Grandpa Max crashed through Vilgax's ship and into Vilgax before the blade ever made contact with Ben. The resulting electrical damage began spreading through the ship, which spread into the Omnitrix and caused it to begin rapidly changing Ben. It was not the Omnitrix reacting to the blade.
And yes, the complete Omnitrix saved Ben from outright dying. After it let him die to multiversal destruction, get kidnapped and be hurt on numerous occasions. That is not a defense mechanism that would react to limb removal.
My favorite part of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is that part in Goomba vs Koopa DBX where Koopa flies through the timestream leaving behind the Goomba shoe for Hal to "get an idea"
Such a top tier moment fr.
Wait that happens? Im sorry I forgot how that whole thing went so it’s kinda fuzzy in my mind
There are three types of people who critique Death Battle.
-People who analyze the episode itself, and call out what they liked or didn't like about the animation, writing, and skits.
-"My Dad should've beaten your dad and here's why."
-"My Dad beat your dad but he should've beaten him harder."
If they had come up with a good enough reason for Ben to lose, I wouldn't have been mad about it. But no, that was not the case they just doubled down on the lack of proper research on Ben and why he should lose
the problem is that they were RIGHT about a number of the points people call poor research, or didn't dispute them enough. among other things, alien x has actually shown onscreen he cannot sense time travellers coming and doesn't exist without ben.
@@danielwilson8604except he CAN sense time travel
Celestial Sapiens can sense the sotobro effect, just like chronosapiens
@@sev1120 this is never stated, nor shown.
the sotobro effect is specifically something chronosapiens and their technology leave behind when they time travel, no other time traveller leaves such a trail.
eon and even vilgax were able to travel without paradox tracking them, and paradox himself even snuck up on alien x themself, grabbed ben, and left, forcibly detransforming them. neither serena, ben nor bellicus could sense him coming or stop him leaving.
if there is a specific statement otherwise please let me know.
@danielwilson8604 Regardless of Alien X not showing it, it doesn't mean he can't. Alien X's species exist outside all of existence and cannot be harmed by anything. They failed to fully understand Alien X and the idea that there isn't anything he can't do
@@SJMS.x0930 Claiming that someone can do "anything" is vague, unquantifiable, and ultimately, meaningless. There are plenty of characters in fiction said to be omnipotent or god or whatever. Those are just titles. What really matters is the feats they've actually shown. Speculation and assumptions are worthless. You can't just make up powers or stats for a character. That's not how debates work. It doesn't matter that Alien X is said to be able to "do anything". Yeah, so are about a dozen comic book characters, and they are still beaten by higher beings. That phrase doesn't tell me anything. The best he has ever shown is creating a universe. That simply isn't enough to beat even mid tier DC heralds.
And you literally just pulled the ultimate no limits fallacy by claiming Alien X can't be harmed by anything, Just because nothing in Ben 10 is powerful enough to harm in (which is questionable itself but that's not important right now) that doesn't mean other characters who have greater feats than him can't. It doesn't matter that he's the god tier in a verse filled with mere universal reality warpers. His feats are so pathetic compared to what Hal has pulled off. This is the same argument Saitama fans use. Battles are about feats, not how cool someone looks whenever they show up. By your logic I could also say Zeno from DBS is unbeatable because nothing in his verse is powerful enough to harm him. That's not how it works.
“Hal (I can bullshit my way through anything with will power) Jordan” is such a perfect way to describe the type of person Hal Jordan is lmao
can we all agree that homelander vs omniman was 100% right though?
Oh definitely, no question here
Homelander deserved worse.
yep
As a MASSIVE Ben 10 fan, it's not so much that Ben lost as it is how he lost, the expectation for why he lost, and who he lost to.
I'm going to start by explaining how he lost. This just applies to the animation. It's very obvious why there was such a backlash. Having Hal travel back to the beginning of the fight was a cheap and anticlimactic way of winning. In addition, it goes against how time travel works in both the DC and Ben 10 universe. So regardless if either character goes back in time to kill there opponents past self this does nothing but creates a new timeline in which there original selfs are unaffected. Now it's time for the dreaded Green Scissors. The fail safe should have activated when Hal goes back in time and cuts Ben's wrist. The energy feedback that protects Ben doesn't have a cooldown, and the Omnitrix will turn Ben into an Alien who will protect/save him."But Hal's constructs move faster than..."Blah blah blah the animation didn't elude to that and that's exactly the problem. The animation has to matter. A good amount of people who watch Death Battle watch for the animation and so it needs to be a more proper representation of both characters and there abilities and it needs to be conveyed as accurately as possible.
Now, the explanation for Ben's loss. It was written poorly. I'm not going to go into detail (partly because I'm lazy and I'm writing this on my lunch break and you go into better detail than I could), but here's the bare minimum. All they had to say was Hal was faster and had more experience fighting Omnipotent entities, and they removed all of the fluff about Ben playing catch up and his aliens not being able to accomplish (insert feat here.) I could go on and on about how they didn't calculate or mention any of Ben's more powerful aliens and their feats, or what they got wrong about Alien X, or how they downplayed Ben or how I didn't like Ben's representation in the fight or how the episode at times felt like nostalgia pandering to me during Ben's anyslsis but none of that matters because of my last point.
This was a completely unequal match-up, which is why I disliked it so much.This is something that anime fans bring up when a DC/Marvel character beats an anime character on DB, and it's that DC and Marvel characters have an unfair advantage because they have multiple comics, different authors, multiple different timelines and alternative versions, and they've been around for so long. Most non-DC/Marvel characters have a single source of origin and a smaller pool of writers. In the case of Ben 10, the franchise is only 17 years old, but DC and Marvel have characters that have been around for more than 40 years. For myself and many others, rooting for our favorite to win against these characters is pointless because DC/Marvel characters are simply built different. They have a lot of power creep. I wouldn't have minded if Ben had lost against someone on his level, but he didn't. Lanturns are broken. Honestly I hate being reminded of this fight and yeah I have no problem saying this is my least favorite DB and it's not because Ben lost it's because he never stood a chance to begin with so there was no point being excited for this match up in addition to the fight being ( and I hate using this word) mid. The peak was Hal vs Heatblast imo and everything afterwards just being meh. Both characters have creative powers and both characters don't do anything interesting with them in the fight.
All around good analysis video. If you have feedback or a different opinion I'd love to talk.
may i dispute your comment?
@@danielwilson8604💀
@@samburgerwithcheeze8145 sorry, i don't understand this reply.
@@danielwilson8604 why wanna "dispute" their comment, just curious
@saucymongoose I agree with your opinion. I saw one ink tank video where Kuro talks about how ben won and how death battle got some stuff wrong about Alien X, and how Ben could use different ways to win against green lantern.
I’m surprised that Ben didn’t beat Hal with a number 2 pencil.
That sounds like a Big Bang Theory reference, and I love it! 😆
That sounds like a spongebob reference.
Sounds like common sense considering some are yellow
Stale Joke is Stale?
@@radicaIizeddon’t forget the wood part!
Well murdering a child ain't exactly heroic.
@@justinalicea1590: Ever heard of self-defense?
@@justinalicea1590: That’s kinda my point. He could’ve just taken the watch after cutting his arm off and brought him to a hospital but he had to be an asshole and kill him.
He wasn't a kid when you thought he was going to win. Sounds like a pathetic last ditch effort to make Hal look bad.
Hal opted for containment and procurement of the watch amicably as well as pacifying Ben.
That boy decided to escalate things unnecessarily forcing Hal's hand. That little sh*t deserved it. This wasn't vilgax or Dagon. He should be glad parallax Hal didn't show up.
@@MrRonald327 The arrogant little sh*t deserved it.
I feel like a major reason people were dissatisfied with the results is that this episode felt disrespectful towards Ben 10 considering this episode was released around the height of Ben 10's popularity in vs discussions only for death battle to go "oh the guy who you consider to be stronger than superman? Nah, his ass can't even beat Green Lantern" without really explaining it properly. That's the thing, there are plenty of newer episodes where they took characters the internet believes to be invincible, only to have them lose, like Archie Sonic and Saitama, the difference is that those episodes had a satisfying explanation as to why those characters lost, the biggest example I can think of being in Flash vs Sonic, I fully expected Sonic to win. The difference is, the conclusion made perfect sense, so after listening to it I went "yeah, that makes sense" and gained a new appreciation for Wally West. In this they went "nah, Ben 10 isn't that powerful, he's not even universal in the absolute worst reasoning ever, and all those super OP abilities he has? Pshhhh, no big deal, they just won't work". They didn't go into full detail on valid reasons why GL would win (which I do believe) like lantern rings being the most complex technology ever, way more advanced than the omnitrix, Green Lantern's ability onto HOW he could get around the failsafes, and his experience with celestial beings beyond alien x. Basically, instead of bringing GL up, it felt like they were putting Ben 10 down, and with their incredibly faulty reasonings, it also made them look super non credible. VS debates are subjective, yes, but you still need valid reasons as to why a character won or lost. It's why, despite disagreeing with a lot of episodes like Hulk VS Broly, I can at least respect and understand where they're coming from and hold it much higher than an episode like Frieza vs Megatron or this one, which I still agree with the results, but their reasonings were so bad I view the episode in a bad light.
I do understand why the verdict does mean so much to a lot of people, and to me personally, while it's not the biggest contributing factor of enjoyment, it still is a big one, whether that be objective reasonings like reasonable conclusions, or subjective ones like my preferred character not getting their ass kicked. Obviously it's not the only thing I value, otherwise a season as great as season ten would be my least favorite season due to how often my preferred character lost this season, but at the end of the day, death battle asks a question of who would win in the fight, and in that regard, the thesis does have understandable importance, and if someone has major issues with it, then it's perfectly reasonable why they are unhappy with the whole episode. Like I said though, in the end, it's not the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't even say it's the most important thing, otherwise an episode with a terrible verdict and conclusion, but everything else being great like Frieza vs megatron would be an episode I hate more than Korra VS storm, which is my actual least favorite episode of death battle, despite the verdict being the only thing about the episode that isn't absolute fucking dogshit.
I like that Kuro is pretty okay with the show now. He even showed up during Bentember in the live chats during the Ben 10 debates, and it was as if the final boss showed up
Fun fact: TH-cam uses the background music on videos to suggest similar content to the video you're watching. Came here from the recommendations on a tally hall video
Wow
Small correction Alien x clones are as strong as the original
The failsafe shockwave doesn't have a cool down (idk where did they get that from)
The failsafe was fast enough to catch the BigBang(of a universe that is infinite in size) exploding in bens face I don't know how fast Hal is but is he really that fast ? would like if u tell me and ty
Overall i think hal should have won bec he has 1000 of comics so he obviously has More time to develop and shine just not like that i mean come on...
an author has claimed that ben's universe is infinite in size, but that's a shakey claim since we've seen the edge of it, and an infinite universe wouldn't have a big bang. however, if we assume that it is true, we'd have to use the same claims about dc's universe. since hal can not only scan the entire universe instantly and even fly from the center past the edge in the space of a single sentence, that'd still make him faster thanks to the smaller timeframe., especially since the universe being much older would mean it had expanded more.
@@danielwilson8604 ty maybe if they showed us in the animation that Hal moves so fast that time is slowed to Ben or if Hal said I have to be quick or something it would have been clearer since the start Bec the way they make it look like they just forgot about . My only problem with it know is what didn't Alien x follow back Hal? Alien x has two Avatars beligus and seriena who are omniscience they could have told Ben if he didn't realize or the fact that Hal literally says "time huh that's for the tip so Alien x should know his plan
@@tpabdo7857 that would indeed have been a better solution. i'm planning my own animation and hoping to do the fight justice because it's a genuinely interesting matchup to me.
@@tpabdo7857 sorry, didn't catch the edits.
but serena and bellicus have something LIKE omniscience, but we've seen time travellers sneak up on them and give them the slip before, when paradox broke into their mind-void grabbed ben and left, destransforming them. they didn't see him coming, but they were focused on him when he left. and ben's future self has confirmed that if his past changes, his future ceases to be.
between that, hal being MUCH faster and the fact that they will cease to exist without ben and the omnitrix, they were in a bad position. does that make sense?
@@danielwilson8604 yes but paradox isn't ur average time traveller and still Hal said "time huh thanks for the tip" and celestial sapiens live outside of the multiverses and outside of time it is also supported by the fact that there is one Alien x that all Bens in the multiversus have access too. So again killing him in the past won't do anything ,even by the logic of both shows I believe but that might be a bit to much to ask in my eyes if they made Alien x follow him back then time traveller Hall kills Ben since he knows how fast the failsafe, while the the other Hal holds off Alien x then they both team up and kill him with an explostion ,Thank you for listening to me and answering me logical answers so far and not just saying Hal when Bec he just does
The problems don't come from Hal beats Ben. It's how. Ben's first watch has a cooldown, but his latest doesn't. By the version of Ben they use he has all the powers of a later Ben, no mater the sprite. He can't be killed like that. And thay handled Alien X really poorly, he is a solve a problem fast with powers type of fighter, not a melee one. Also the biggest issue is Ben has a lot of aliens that can absorb Hal's attacks or affect the ring. And they use none. I am with Kuro here. I wish they didn't touch Ben, because they didn't add a lot to the fandom and spred some misconseptions like what can Ben do and that the watch is harming the user by a lot of use
honestly, i'm of the opposite school here? a lot of what people claim in the debunks is flar out wrong or directly contradicted by canon, and it's lead to a lot of people claiming ben has powers he doesn't or tryting to enforce limits on green lantern he doesn't have, like claiming he cannot travel in time post crisis. no version of hal jordan lacks time travel.
it's also pushed alien x scaling to frankly absurd extremes.
If three Alien X clones are fighting in melee, the rest will be throwing suns or blasting the enemy with antimatter or doing literally anything other than JUST FLOAT THERE
@@danielwilson8604 I'm not really an expert on Green Lantern, but a lot of things that he did against Ben is literally established in Ben 10 to not be possible.
You can’t cut of Ben's hand
You can't travel back in time without Ben being able to anything against it (Sotobro effect)
Also Ben's human form can't be killed as it has a fail safe that would automatically change him to an alien able to survive said attack
Like I don't actually care about the main result, just the way it was reached as its contradictory to Ben 10's lore and rules
@@matheussandbakk9959 the problem is, Ben's human self has died onscreen, and an omnitrix technician has claimed you could cut it off in every series, including g the final. They could have explained it better, but its still supported by canon. It has defences, but they aren't absolute.
Also, professor paradox did just that against alien x himself, destransforming him by warping into their void while they couldn't sense him and teleporting away before they could do anything. The sotobro effect is only said to trace chronosapiens, after all. And even as clockwork, ben couldn't tell the difference between eon travelling in time and being vaporised.
@@danielwilson8604 Theres no such thing as the "Omnitrix technician" atleast in the main contintenty
the reboot is it's own seperate thing
that's like using teen titans go as a reason for why raven or starfire from the comics lose a fight, it's dumb
I believe the big reason Ben 10 v Green Lantern was so disliked, even if previous episodes had incorrect conclusions, is that the other episodes all _seemed_ to be good arguments. If the only things you knew were what DB showed, then most of the time one could leave an episode thinking "yeah, that makes sense".
The rematch of Mario v Sonic did NOT have this, and even seemed to ignore very good points in the original that had Sonic win, so people didn't like that remake... but hey, they aren't _that_ far apart, so it's not so blatant. That basically had boiled down to "they counter each other in everything but speed, and we all know Sonic's faster", a take that was not sufficiently overturned but still means they're close.
Here though? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in the episode apart from the official conclusion, was screaming that Ben is the winner. They did a Q+A later? Irrelevant. That's not the episode, and most people aren't even going to pay attention to it.
As for points you brought up about Ink's analysis, while the reasoning behind Hal outspeeding the failsafe seems sound, it does nothing without the opportunity, and per DB rules, he can't know enough to have that opportunity beforehand. They got around that by time travel, but the arguments for the Sotobro Effect make it pretty clear that, no, that's not an option.
I know you claimed that said effect might have been exaggerated, but that was one claim, not directed at Ink's coverage of it specifically, and gave no counter-explanation... so I have to assume Ink was right on that point.
Yeah, even if an episode has a wrong result if DB gives a sound reasoning for it then there won't be a problem. The phoenix vs raven fight despite being wrong DB gave a reasonable explaining on the analysis so for their general youtube audience who is not as in deep in comics the result makes sense. Ben vs Hal was a huge ball drop from them.
The rematch of Mario vs Sonic very much did have a good argument and the only people were upset were biased to begin with lol
The reason it's disliked is because a bunch of Zoomers who were raised with an iPad as their parents are assmad their crappy cartoon character died.
The only reason Sonic won in the original was the ignorant assumption that power-ups canceled each other out, once this was corrected the team came to the assumption that Mario would win because he could just Spam invincibility power-ups.
And that's not even going into how Sonic shouldn't have won by that episodes but Nemesis already explained that
It's so funny how the Ben sprite were from a bootleg
I never noticed this, but my friend pointed it out to me and I can’t unsee it. The person who wins the battle, is always whoever has the largest number of kilotons of TNT as there power feat.
It really depends on the episode, but yeah, outstating your opponent is a pretty reliable way of killing them, especially if the combatants don't have much hax at their disposal.
was i your friend?😂 i knew that for a LONG TIME
I think it was Stan Lee (or some other big name in the comics industry) who when asked who would win a fight between two specific characters said, "Whoever the Author wants to win."
Yeah it is all up to interpatation
Please please please stop using this stupid stupid quote, THERE IS NO WRITER IN THIS CONTEXT YOU IDIOT. Me Vs You, we debate. Who's the writer? Oh right, there isn't any, this isn't a story, there is no narrative, there's nothing here that needs an author's input on how it would go.
@@debater452 I don't want to repeat myself
Ah yes the most bullshit excuse according to this logic a human being can beat god because the writer
@@death-nm7hrWell, yes. There are countless stories where a human beats a god or even The God simply because the author wants them to.
The most glaring issue is that they obviously didn't do enough research into Ben's feats, abilities, haxs, or any of his other transformations. Ben has aliens like Ghostfreak who can possess other people and since Green lantern has been taken control of before possession would work on him in this scenario. Ben also has aliens such as chromastone, nrg, feedback, ect who can absorb energy and completely nullify the effects of the ring but DB for some mysterious reason completely ignores them in the matchup.
@@justinalicea1590 your main point seems to stem off of Hal's speed yet he has never truly shown any speed feat that puts him quintillion times faster than light. The whole "he can just avoid Ghostfreak" can also be applied to Ghostfreak. And Hal wouldn't be able to "take back" his own energy from the energy absorbers because they take energy from their opponents and use them as weapons against said opponents, unless he uses a shield or something similar I don't see how Jordan would be able to deal with constantly being blasted with his own energy nonstop
@@justinalicea1590 if Green lantern fired his own attacks at the energy absorbers and they fired them back at him that would be more than powerful enough to hurt GL. The Omnitrix has reacted to things outside of time and space anyway so hal would never be able to speed blitz Ben. And even then those factors still don't have any weight when it comes to his physical strength or what he can do with the ring.
@@justinalicea1590 you are assuming that GL would only be using 1% of his power in the battle when in actuality he would need to use much more than that. The Omnitrix would transform Ben into an alien that would withstand GLs speed, this is a basic countermeasure of the Omnitrix that has been around for almost the entirety of the series. Did you even watch the show?
@@justinalicea1590 what is your evidence that green lantern is as strong as alien X?
@@justinalicea1590 Alien X was able to recreate the entire universe which means he was able to create the distance of the entire universe in less than a second. In order for this to be possible his power would have to travel the length of the universe in both directions in a near nanosecond which by itself is a massive speed feat that Alien X performed only using a fraction of his particles which by extension means that he wasn't even using his full power to pull off such a feat. With this information in mind Alien X most likely wouldn't even need to use 4% of his power to completely out speed Hal and put the power of his ring to shame. If you disagree with my points that's fine but I don't see any logical way Hal could ever possibly win
Characters not fighting creatively is something Death Battle constantly struggles with. They use characters that can utilize their powers in unique ways yet all they do is slap each other until one falls over.
I’ve been watching them for over a decade and they keep making the same mistakes.
They’re not good at what they try to do.
It takes a lot of time to do something truly awesome and unique especially when it comes to a match like this , it'll take weeks or more of animation to make a 5 minute fight which isn't always worth it when running a show.
I wish It was better though
I was one of the people that disliked the episode on release but have soften up to it. The reasoning for my hate and maybe others is because Ben represented western animation and was the 2nd Cartoon Network character to appear in a show primarily dominated by combatants from Anime, Comics, and Video games. So seeing representation from my favorite cartoon reignited a spark in me as I didn't even consider Ben 10 for a Death Battle, but him losing made me let emotion rule out reason.
My personal problem with the episode wasn’t Ben being beaten but instead the way Ben was beaten. Idk shit about GL so if he just beat Ben in some beam struggle or started mollywhopping him then I’d be fine with that since I can’t really argue against the strength of a character I don’t know.
BUT the way he beats Ben makes no sense with what we know about Ben10. Alien X should’ve been able to follow him, the Omnitrix should’ve reacted to bens arm being cut off, why was Ben still a child if you’re gonna have Hal fucking murder him?
So much missed opportunity.
We could've had a Jetray vs. Hal Jordan in a Jet construct dog fight; Hal's favorite construct is a jet and missiles, because duh he was a hot shot pilot.
And biggest missed opportunity, Ben using Toe Pick or Ghost Freak; And Hal surrounded by fear, scoffs, and speaks the GL oath, then he breaks free. It could even tie in to the supernova bit, Hal commenting on how he's also done this several times already.
Slight correction I have absolutely no idea where there getting that the failsafe has a cool down unless there's a source for that there is absolutely not a cool down for the failsafe. Furthermore the Omnitrix has been shown to actually be somewhat sentient and was also able to react faster than the big bang and contain it in feedback. Also the failsafe not only can keep Ben alive by transforming into the alien he needs at that moment which by the way the transformations are actually instantaneous the transformation sequences are just for the viewer the failsafe also keeps the Omnitrix from being removed or used by anyone else other than Ben.
I only mentioned the cooldown because it's what Death Battle said (and even then I thought that Liam should've brought up a scan or clip or something).
@@JonathanFrostathanthe cooldown was ben 10 doing by just slapping down the Omnitrix either setting a random timer or just ending up with the wrong aliens. Stated in the ben 10 movie by the creator of the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix is able to keep Ben in the aliens for a long period of time or set in the lock mode to keep him in that alien form like in the Omniverse.
@@majesticgothitelle1802and also the red state is highly theorized to be just a feature for safety(dna getting scrambled or something weird like that) or something to protect the user from going crazy.
@@SuperDestroyerFox it only really been seem with rath, feedback and Ghost freak that changes the personality of Ben. Feedback is the only alien that Ben became obsessed with after turning into the first time.
@@majesticgothitelle1802 he was using it constantly because he just found him strong and kept using him until when he got removed from the omitrix. When that happened Ben felt like he lost a part of himself.
Its not that ben loat that's infuriating. Its how ben lost. 1, hal time traveled, somethjng alien x is shown doing in his debut episode, and 2, hal cut off ben's arm, somethjng which has been shown on several occasions to be impossible.
@@justinalicea1590 what about that time ben's arm gets severed from his body when Ben is in the null void and the omnitrix controls the arm to get out of danger and back to ben? Or that time the omnitrix caused a shock wave when Ben's arm was about to be cut off? Also, even if alien x couldn't time travel, maltruant, a chrono sapien, has been shown to be able to. Ben has a chrono sapien form. Ben could easily time travel too, even if alien x couldn't, but, considering alien x is capable of creating an entire universe, mind control, creating a black whole, and controlling time upon first transforming into him, I'm willing to say he could reasonably be assumed to be capable of time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 Hal surviving multiversal erasure is also an assumption, yet I've seen you say that a million times. Only Kilowag was ever directly shown being hit by the crisis wave. If we're allowed to give Hal that kind of leniency we should also give Alien X the ability to time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 but if its the lantern ring that allows people to survive multiversal erasure, and hal has it and that means hal can survive, then chrono sapiens being able to time travel and Ben having a chrono sapien form means Ben can time travel. Scaling works for both characters.
@@VannyBeumer DC is so god damn overpowered nowadays it ain't even funny it's just like "Oh he destroyed an Omegaverse that's so cool and very creative"
There were two interactions that I wanted to see that I was disappointed didn't come up in the animation:
Ben has a transformation called Toepick whose entire power set is being so horrifying to look at that it causes basically anyone who looks at it to collapse in fear. He also has Chromastone, whose gimmick is being able to absorb energy/light based attacks and fire them back. Even if neither of those would be enough to make a difference in the final outcome, those were concepts that came to mind for me while waiting for the death battle to come out and it would have been nice to see them as beats within the fight.
I wanted to see nanomech into ungrade for some spicy hacking action and if the ring counter either counter-hack or defend against upgrade
Multiple of Ben's aliens have the ability to absorb the exact kind of energy Hal projects and he has shown the ability to absorb and redirect universal+ level threats with them. There's also multiple aliens that can make him infinitely smarter than Hal. Then there's Upgrade, the tech manipulator, who could potentially interact with Hal's ring which is advanced technology. The list goes on and on because Ben has such a wide variety of aliens and many of them have extremely unique and creative abilities. They acted like Alien X was his only option then lowballed it, but neither of those things are accurate. It just really showed they didn't even try to accurately research him.
@@GigaLigma
The problem with that is that Alien X really was Ben's only option. All of his other aliens are too slow and/or too weak to keep up with Hal.
Also, absorbing the energy of a Green Lantern is pretty difficult since it's actual willpower and is something makes up part of the underlying structure of DC's cosmology. That's to mention that Hal would just... absorb it back or just overpower Ben's absorption through the sheer amount of energy he has (seriously, Hal Jordan has so much willpower that he overpowered Ion, the literal concept of willpower and the entity that grants all Green Lanterns their powers, with his own willpower, and no, I'm not joking). Plus, universe+ level threats are pretty common in DC and are much weaker than Hal, so absorbing that much energy wouldn't really affect him.
As for becoming smarter than Hal, ok? That won't really help Ben if he gets speed-blitzed, one-shot, and/or out-haxxed. Plus, isn't Alien X technically smarter?
As for Upgrade, Green Lantern tech has resistance to hacking that even multiversal supergenius's in DC can't hack into them, and Hal could just use his Ring to hack back into Upgrade's stuff. Plus, Hal could just make himself a new Ring out of his own willpower if needed (yes, he's done that).
@@infernousgaming1393 All any of this does is show that you are a diehard fan of Hal Jordan and know nothing about Ben in comparison. A lot of what you said is true, except when it comes to Ben, because you just flat out do not know anywhere near as much about him. You don't know the speeds of his fastest forms, the intelligence feats of his smartest forms, the energy absorption and redirection feats of his best absorbers; you don't even know that Upgrade has never been shown to be incapable of hacking ANYTHING and is CONSTANTLY used against extremely advanced alien tech or even living tech foes.
See, this really annoys me because I'm a big fan of BOTH characters, so reading comments like this from people who obviously know everything about one and absolutely nothing about the other, it's just obnoxious and that's all the actual death battle was too. Even the people doing the episode seemed to know practically nothing about Ben and there's no point even trying to debate with someone who has no idea what they're debating against and doesn't care to learn. Just know that this fight is nowhere near the one-sided stomp it's made out to be by GL stans and TONS of Ben's aliens could give Hal a lot of unique problems you seem oblivious to.
@@GigaLigmaseriously clockwork, nano mech, upgrade, toe pick, ghost freak, and feedback all have power of some form of manipulation that would mop Hal’s ring. I mean toe pick could put Hal in a forever fear state and just rip the finger off
Not having every possible feat mentioned in the analysis isn't due to lack of research, it's simply time constraints and not wanting an hour long DB episode...
I think the catch-up thing was how a fight would play out in most scenarios of this same fight, even with DB's animation having Ben leading the fight most of the time. Hal was able to handle all of Ben's forms pretty well, so it's not too hard to imagine that Hal could flip the script on Ben and Ben would be struggling if Hal took the lead in the fight. I also felt like the 'soft debunk' of Alien X was actually just them saying "Hey, just because Alien X can manipulate reality and can create and destroy a universe, it's not like his powers are that unbeatable", with the Annihilarrgh as an example of Alien X's control over reality and kind of likely other abilities not being infallible. I think this was also the first time DB made the argument that the DC universe is larger than our own, and considering what happened with Jean Grey and the 16th death and the Marvel universe being larger after Hulk vs Broly after the voice work was done... I think it's reasonable to say that something like that happened here.
Part of me feels like some of these problems are caused because of poor writing due to trying to wrap a head around all the crazy stuff these characters can do and make it into a cohesive argument and scans being cut due to time constraints.
I really enjoy how in depth you went with your analysis of this episode. And how you ultimately hammered home and greatly emphasized how vs debates are subjective. Honestly, I see too much hate and people ripping each other apart over who would win. It's fine to be passionate about your favorite character... just respect the other person's, my guy.
Alien X literally exists outside of time and space. Not only did he not notice the universe being erased, but he also took zero damage from it and just effortlessly brought it back. Basically, even if Ben was attacked in the past as long as he was still alien X, nothing should have phased him, and once he noticed, he just went back in time and killed green lantern while he was enjoying his victory and then just brought himself back to life with time manipulation and called it a day. The whole fight just feels like a gag at the end that makes no sense, but people are expected to take it seriously
1) Celestialsapeian age
2) Hal has Universal and Multiversal+ attack power
@l0sts0ul89 so does alien X. And even though he has all this "power," he still couldn't win and decided to travel back in time and kill Ben before the fight even started like a bitch
@@keshang_laow8325 Nope, in the Q&A Liam shows ManofAction stating that Celstialsapiens are incapable of Multiversal feats outside of doing it together asa group
@0sts0ul89 which Hal? Does the current one have all these fests?
Also yes Albedo was stuck as Alien X for a year, which was confirmed in the Ben 10,000 returns episode in Ultimate Alien, Paradox states it
I love how insightful and well educated this video is. I love Ben ten, I love it to death, this is one of the episodes that brought me back into death battle and the controversy is just…tiring.
Honestly. The episode I hate the most is Ultron vs Sigma. And that’s because of ONE LIE. They lied in Ultron rundown, giving him a critical weakness he apparently never had and just “lol noped” that weakness away in the analysis. If it was better explained I could accept it easier.
That’s usually when I have real problems with episodes. It’s when they explicitly lie, manipulate info, or explain things horribly.
(Although let’s be honest here. The most accurate episode 100% is Eggman vs Wily. No way in hell that confrontation ends any differently. That’s one of my faves.)
Actually IIRC the Roboenza in that video doesn't work like in the games (doesn't even look like that, I think) so it also was kind of inaccurate
I actually think the result of eggman vs wily is actually... I think wily winning? I mean quickman is if i'm not misremembering faster than metal sonic, there's robot masters way more crazier than all of eggman's badniks (for example coldman being able to create absolute Zero (pun intended) temperatures, and solar man to create fire hotter than the sun) he just has more fire power, and roboenza isn't really a factor to me because it is dangerous to even wily itself (as shown in megaman 10) and realistically metal sonic isn't going to transform into neo metal sonic because now that the idw comics are canon eggman likely would have removed that feature. But well, it's still pretty darn close with all the final boss machinery that eggman has that give him an edge.
I don’t get your point here, besides giving Ultron a weakness he apparently never had what else was wrong with the analysis because they put everything pretty straight forward
i
cannot agree with that reasoning
yes there's one wrong thing in the episode but the analysis outside of it is pretty good and that fight is fucking awesome
@@velvetvessel Yeah, it’s not it ultimately ruins the episode or post-analysis.
I disagree with Raven vs Phoenix's result ( I still rooted for Raven ) and I was REALLY REALLY shocked with the result and didn't find the conclusion good, then I realized wow comics are fucked and moved on
Yeah that is kind of DB's thing. Even if the result is wrong, and raven winning is wrong, is their analysis that matters and if you don't buy it well, nothing bad happens. You just disagree and that is all there is.
@@oceanoman Not really given that Phoenix controls life force, a higher version of soul manipulation, and the fact that it is capable of protecting Jean's soul which is how she revives, plus it was easily capable of burning Thor's soul so the whole point of the phoenix not being able to finish Raven off isn't true, neither are the stats since if it wasn't for Jim Corrigan who bonded with him, giving Raven the opportunity the win, white phoenix being on a similar level as something like Specter and argueably above it should tell you how outclassed Raven was in stats, and lets not talk about Unkindness vulnerability to time traveling foes.
Also the speed calc was iffy at best but none of that really matters though since what counts is what DB shows and with the analysis that they did the majority of the audience, like you, will have no issue seeing Raven winning inspite of it being a wrong result when you read the comics.
@@oceanoman If you actually read the comics you would have known that Spectre was dunking on her and throwing everything back at her, she was about to die so allow me to take your "i've read the comics mate" with a pinch of salt.
2. Raven attacked him while he was vulnerable and let the other demons do the rest. She basically only finished the job while he was already down. You sure you read the comics bro? And it is very neat that you remember all of that, but this only makes her content at the same level of the phoenix when at full power. Considering that the phoenix controls life force and that is life and death across everywhere at marvel this only means that Raven has a chance at hurting the phoenix, not beat it.
3. Even if Raven regenerates so does Phoenix, so the battle ends, at best for Raven, in a stalemate since she doesn't has the power to match being on the same level as phoenix, pretty much like Specter.
4. Even if Raven can time travel she is still vulnerable to it. Unkindness's defeat involved time travel and a being above all realities, concepts, literal writing narrative while it lives in it's own made up space like the white phoenix can easily do that and alter future events so that Raven won't have unkindness again, not like it needed to since it outclasses Raven greatly unless you give the goth chick all beneficts of the doubt and ignore all the anti feats against her while ignoring the Phoenix's abilities for convenience then yes, phoenix losses.
@@oceanoman Which doesn't make much sense, Raven still has a lot of stamina, if asmodeus was even remotelly close to Specter then Raven would have been easily handled. So no, not in the same tier. Unless we take character statements as 100% true while ignoring that this is a comic and characters can be boastful and lie.
@@oceanoman 2.Ok, so in other words Neron is not that impressive, since he is weaker than Trigon, so it was pointless to even bring him up.
3. All those characters have different and vastly power levels, you yourself admited it when saying that Neron defeated Trigon. No reason to bring these up since yeah, none of them scale to beings like the phoenix, unless you believe that Trigon is on the same tier as Spectre which is constantly showed to not be the case, as much as the writers say the two are equal Trigon never does things that suggest he is near the Spectre. Even if two characters have the same power doesn't means they are equal, for example white phoenix has better control than unkindness raven ever had over souls since it controls life force, raven only deals soul hax and that is not enough.
4. Cool, Raven doing her best can match something the phoenix does casually, existing outside of reality, and still having time travel being part of what stopped her by being below her power, so for white crown phoenix that is easy and the fire bird wins.
5. "By death metal statements" has no reason to be believable. Word of god/author can only be considered when it doesn't contradicts what happens, if it's believable and it doesn't includes something ridiculous. Asmodeus being equal ti Spectre makes no sense since Raven was totally outmatched and about to die when Spectre decided go not play around with her anymore. If she was a bit tired (she wasn't) then it shouldn't have been so one sided but it was. This means that whatever statements an author makes doesn't means it is true.
Frankly I have a very hard time believing that you actually read the comics and not some battle boarding site with scans like GameSpot, Comic Vine or VS Battle Wiki :/
So, I scrolled through a truckload of comments here and none of them nor this video brings up another factor that, at least to me, partially contributes to this episode's controversy.
It has partially to do with Kuro the Artist before this episode. More accurately, his video on why Ben 10 can beat Goku, Superman, etc. Simply put, that video went Viral. I remember seeing that video pop up in my recommended feed multiple times and I was not into Death Battle as much at the time. The idea that a childhood CN show from the 2000's is as powerful if not more so than the strongest characters in fiction, and providing sound arguments from one of the sequel shows we never got around to watching due to different interests. I was into it, as was a lot of people. I can't speak of the video's quality and I have no motivation to rewatch it, but it was captivating.
Back to the DB. I feel part of it's backlash stems unfortunate circumstances. The fact that the episode aired less than a year after Kuro's video, and Ben lost in a disrespectful way as well as that awful conclusion, made it seem like it was a direct response to that video and coming off as really biased towards DC. Of course, this analysis video here shows that's not the case, with the hosts being a massive fan of Ben 10 and genuinely thinking the DC streak would end here.
I think if the timeline was different and Kuro's video didn't exist, the backlash would've been less severe. It would still be bad of course, but having a video you can comfortably watch the stats shown while also not watching the Analysis segments for other reasons, tricks my brain into thinking dedicated fans of media knows more than big names in a field. If the video didn't happen, I would be kinda sad, but not angry at the same resolution. For the record, none of this is Kuro's fault. He just wanted to make a video of a series he's passionate for and give light to said series. But at the same time, Death Battle should've gotten a more satisfying death for Ben and put so much more effort into the conclusion because people will subscribe to viral videos and take "responses" to said video very, uncomfortably so seriously.
THE LAST HEARTED COMMENT WAS WELL OVER A MONTH AGO, I THOUGHT FOR SURE I WOULD'VE MISSED ONE OF 3 THOUSAND COMMENTS THAT MENTIONS THE SAME THING!
Your videos in general are very well made and I hope in the future that it grows beyond the Death Battle trap, speaking as a low subscriber content creator myself.
Also, Ratchet and Clank is also my childhood.
The ink tank actually did a great breakdown of the episode of death battle and why it got things wrong crucial things wrong in the research. I like Green Lantern and you should really check out Ben 10 from classic all the way up to Omniverse.
Does he know
I'm kinda late to this since i was just recommended this video, but i personally was a GL fan and ben 10 fan, i loved both of them growing up, and felt kinda bad from the battle, cause from what i remembered of GL growing up he was always more limited. Like every time i picked up GL, in movies, comics and shows he was shown limits way beneath what they gave him in the battle,which made me feel as though i was a fake fan and them not well explaining it made me feel kinda dumb, where as I was given a way clearer picture of ben's abilities in the series. Like I remember many comics where green lanterns hit their limits in doing way more mundane stuff than what death battle showed, like them struggling to create a city construct or hold a planet together or move the earth, them shown being mind controlled multiple times or having green lantern rings be broken or hacked, etc, and yet I never remembered them doing anything more impressive than holding back the big bang. Since The episode I have learnt way more of hal's peak abilities, and i can see where they came from. But it does show that I who read green lantern didn't buy their explainations in episode since they didn't really phrase themselves well, and left me with a confusing/incomplete picture. You basically gave me the missing piece of why i disliked the episode even though i like both characters, they were so bad at explaining it that i didn't believe the episode and didn't feel like i could come to the same conclusion with the evidence they provided.
I have finally fully watched the video
I just want to say :
Thank you so much for making this it's own video and thank you for giving kuro an actual good criticism as opposed to what many DB fans did
This video as a Ben10 fan and as someone who is currently regaining my love for DC and especially hal jordan is nothing short of amazing And I enjoyed it , disagree with some stuff but eh opinions and shit ig
I'm excited for your season 6 retrospective and your content is amazing and you're one of the best people I saw in the vs communit tbh
Thanks, bruv. Your comment means a lot. ^_^
I went into the episode thinking Hal stomped the entire known Omnitrix and that Alien X would be the great equalizer and just strong enough to pull out a victory. The cheap win in a fashion that just wouldn't work in context of the episode in addition to the explaination being different from what I saw was what made me mad.
Actually the part about about Omnitrix mutation because being of it is over used wasn’t actually because of Kevin. Bit instead mention as a text as a “did you know fact” as a extra thing in a DVD from the Ben 10 shows franchise (just like how they brought up how Toph can feel earth that isn’t connected to the ground. But Ben 10 VS Green Lantern they don’t show where it comes from). I remember this because someone posted a screenshot of of the fun fact text on Reddit around 1.5 years ago. I can’t actually show the screenshot because I haven’t actually been able to find it myself and I didn’t download the picture of the screenshot on my phone, and I don’t think I have a chance to find the post again after so long time.
They likely got that information from a flashback in omniverse, where Azmuth said that relying on one form too much could cause him lack control with others OR from the reboot when the omnitrix had was broken and kept rotating between aliens and Phil said "there's no DNA signature for Ben".
Tldr....they misinterpreted information...shocker
This video felt like a genuine analysis and retrospective on the GL vs. Ben 10 Death Battle all up until the analysis of Kuro the Artist's take on the same video. Once he got to that point, it just felt like he was an angry Green Lantern fan yelling at a Ben 10 fan, and it just screamed bias.
Yeah, Kuro is a huge part of the Ben 10 community and obviously has bias, but Johnny here judt seems to be doing the exact same thing Kuro did, and simply enforcing his Green Lantern bias and getting upset at someone trying to debunk the fact his prefered character won.
I definitely think both sides have valid arguments as to why one over the other should've won, but maybe have an open mind to the other sides arguments, and this goes to Johnny and Kuro, instead of just pulling out the "Nuh uh" card and screaming at the top of your lungs that the other side is just straight up wrong 23:31
I definitely understand your side and agree with you, but the example you went with was more of a joke thing btw. I think that there are better examples you could've gone with.
Also, that was definitely not the top of my lungs. I've gone way higher than that in the past. Also, what "Green Lantern bias"? I literally say that I'm neutral on the debate and that Hal isn't one of my favorite DC characters lol.
0:49 i did not expect electric mind to show up here. But that Bast!
Oh this was a very interesting watch.
I am very new to watching death battle related stuff thanks to my partner’s Ranking videos, so learning about things like How Green Lanturn vs Ben 10 was so controversial has been uh. Hmm. Hard to wrap my head around?
I am very much in a “idc who wins. As long as i enjoy the episode its neat.”
Having a character I like win is just a cherry on top.
Glad you enjoyed it. Also, I hope that my $8 donation from yesterday's stream helps you guys out. Or at the very least, be enough to castrate Elon Musk. ;)
38:03 Hey, that’s happened to me twice so far!
Great video by the way. Can’t wait for the rest of Season 6’s retrospective.
Some of my problems with the battle is how they explain certain stuff like the failsafe saying it has a cool down, saying the sotobro effect wouldn’t work, and how they backed up some of their arguments at the end of the death battle with stuff they didn’t use but it was still cool to watch
I was annoyed back in the day at the fact Ben lost but these days I'm over it. The only real thing that bugs me about how DB did Ben is;
1. His portrayal
2. Analysis of Ben and battle's aftermath
besides the ending imo the fight was actually pretty lit and the music was awesome
Plus, everything in the prelude basically said "Ben's gonna win this. It's gonna be tough, but Ben's got a slight edge in enough places where he can pull the win"
And then they had Hal do something he's never done before in any iteration to pull a win, and it felt like an ass-pull
@@sev1120 yea fr
@@sev1120 Yea fr
Ben's omnitrix has been shown to prevent limb removal, and even in the instance of the limb being removed, the omnitrix has just taken over bens body. The omnitirx isnt jus lt a watch. it's an intelligent ai that has adapted to multiple instances like the Big Bang or getting crushed under objects
So what I'm trying to get here is that, the omnitrix doesn't only have one fail safe. It has multiple
It has never been shown to prevent limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not chopping his whole arm off with the omnitrix still on it.
And that was because Sunder did not actually chop off Ben's flesh and blood, His hand was dimensionally separated but still physically connected, which is why he can still feel it when other people are touching his severed hand. This does not prove the omnitrix can do anything if someone actually cuts his arm off normally without any dimensional displacement nonsense. Ben had no control over his transformations in that state. Other people needed to pick up the omnitrix and mess with its controls to change Ben.
The limb removal failsafe simply does not exist.
@@mauricereticau6292thats still considered removing the omnitrix, thats what vilgax tried in classic.
This video is amazing a couple notes.
1. I really wish you brought up Time Huh? not because I think it's funny but it's because I don't really get the joke 😭. IDK who else could explain it. I only laugh at it because I know it's a meme which feels worse than actually knowing the punchline.
2. #ObitoSweep #RavenSweep #HankPymSweep I got all of them wrong too (while I did change my mind before the animation started it was after I did way too much digging on the characters in a way that it wasn't really a prediction at that point.) I feel your pain homie.
The time huh moment became a meme because it's one of those "moments that precede unfortunate events" scenarios.
First there’s a biff weed review, than DigitalTy’s season 8 premiere later today. And now an almost half hour long review on one of my favorite episodes. Not a half bad day for death battle fans.
Thank you for notifying me on digitalty.
And I think Galactic Attorney's review should arrive later tonight or maybe tomorrow. Either, Death Battle fans are eating good.
@@JonathanFrostathan yeah lol
@@KirbyStarAnimation your welcome 👍🏻
@@KirbyStarAnimation"Ty, huh? Thanks for the tip!"
The reason Alien X was too slow to stop the universe from being destroyed was cause Ben hadn't unlocked Alien X's full capabilities by finally getting the other two personalities of Alien X to cooperate, yet.
that's possible, but i doubt it.
they didn't debate or draw it out, they just immediately told him that it was too late to stop the destruction, even though it as still happening. it's the first time they've ever gotten right to the point, no less. though not the first time the alien personalities were too slow to act, even in the era when they both could override ben by agreeing.
alien x wasnt too slow omg. did you not watch the episode. ben literally said himself why he didnt stop it. damn ppl are so oblivious. ben didnt know it was being destroyed. thats it, period.
@@e2d_rblx he actually did. the voices even confirmed it for him, but told him it was too late to do anything about it anyway.
the destruction wasn't even done, they just couldn't do anything at this point.
He literally saw the button get pressed dude... why do you think he changed into Alien X in the first place... and you say I'm oblivious....@@e2d_rblx
Yeah, I've seen the argument so many times that Alien X is limited based solely on the fact that he can't control it until the very very end of the series. He overcomes the form's limits and this form turns into the strongest celestialsapien in existence due to this.
I think a lot of the salt was just from ben losing regardless of whether it was right or not. Also doesn't help how fans were expecting beast boy and not green lantern.
I was not expecting him to use The Mind Electric as background music like what
Honestly, I've seen more people hate on Tifa vs Yang than this one. Rightfully so.
Well to be fair at least the team acknowledged they got that one wrong. Like what happened with Peach vs Zelda in season 1.
@@e1iteyoshi998 True. Doesn't make the episode any less unbearable though.
i can't lie, when you talked about the Ring and it allegedly having better failsafes than the Omnitrix the first thing i thought of was the panels shown at minute 25:33. even if it does have failsafes, and even if they're better than the Omnitrix, they seemingly don't work against Nigh-Omnipotent beings. if Dr. Manhattan can get past the failsafes of a Ring, so can Alien X.
Alien X isn't Dr Manhattan
@@l0sts0ul89 i know that. but they're about equivalent in terms of power.
@@l0sts0ul89
And Green Lantern can't beat Ben either.
@@strider_hiryu850
No they aren't, when has Alien X one shot a chick who can kill multiversal beings? Who has Alien X scared a guy who can think awAy the universe and makes New God's look like a joke?
@@wiggard
Only if you ignore everything Hal has done then sure.
The sotobrae effect would mean alien x can follow hal back in time and stop his plan, kuro the artist made a video on the battle
What i hate about this argument as a whole is that ben 10 fans say that ben should have won and give reasoning but most people on hal's side just do not say anything other than you are wrong without giving reasoning, they are right but boy they don't want to look like it
Oh yeah, for sure. Hal supporters do act really snarky about this debate for no reason.
Yeah this kinda leads to the situation I have where I dont know any feats for the Green Lantern ring in specific that arent directly tied to Hal. I understand Hal uses it really well but I dont know what it's generally capable of and in comparison to what I know the Omnitrix can do it makes it seem like the Omnitrix and it's semi-sentience is just stronger than the average ring. Plus I've yet to see anyone properly explain how Hal could survive instant erasure. He survives non-instant erasure, sure, but that required him to summon his willpower and act against it. Something he wouldnt be able to do to Alien X's instant erasure.
@@autisonmyeah because he was off screen for the crisis. John Stewart was the actual one there
@@christianjacobs2193 Huh?
ben still solos
I’d like to point out that Kuro quoted “Time huh, thanks for the tip” in one chapter of 5 Years Later, so it’s clear he’s moved on from any bitterness he may have had from the incident
@@justinalicea1590 wait what? Weird that doesn't sound like Kuro or any of the Ink Tank at all. If he's still responding to comments after all these years maybe he's not over it
@@justinalicea1590 He was joking dude. He's trying the move on from the whole B10 vs GL debacle unlike you which is why he said who is Green Lantern just to forget everything that had happened.
@@justinalicea1590 1. You can trust me this time, I know Kuro inside and out.
2. He's not acting like a baby, I've seen how mature he is. He was joking to you all.
@@NickS-i9i coming from a bum like you who wanted to force CN into making a new show for alien mid ,there is a good reason to not even take you seriously at all
"I know kuro inside-out" you mean to say you are in a $eXu🅰️L relationship with kuro for a long time that you know him "inside-out" ? Thats very gross if true 🤮
Seems like name calling us on your last comment in db video didn't end well for you ,huh ?
Anyone who wanks ben 10 to the core (that incudes ink tank ,flashback ,faxual scaler ,hell former and all their illegimate children on the internet like you) is automatically a man-child regardless ,even if he was joking then also it was in a quite poor taste ,if he really moved on from that outcome then he or any of his team member shouldn't bother to reply to anyone who is disagreeing with their wanks. Kuro (like the other meatriders of mid 10) still milks on a dead series to run his business....
Alien x is far from universal actually and even low tiers like goten can manhandle him easily 😂
You are just another sore loser (like that "skippy" guy from gvs3's comments section) who wants attention in a poor way.
My advice would be to you that stop wanking ben 10 and get a life outside your cave instead you stupid troll (🫵🤡)
@@justinalicea1590 He's joking. Stop calling him childish, he's a mature adult.
I feel like Kuro the artist is hated on too much. He's not the greatest content creator or analyzer, just a fan of a franchise that has been thrown away and left to rot. That's what we the Ben 10 community are 😔
Truly bro.
I remember reading the 5yl comic and reading "tine huh?" and it was the best feeling I've ever gotten reading a comic
Hal is able to be scaled to the feats of every other Lantern, since they all wield the same weapon, namely the Power Ring. If you have enough willpower, (and Hal does indeed), then you can accomplish the same feats. Simple really.
Remember; most comic book superheroes today were created from 1938 to 1978 by dudes on cocaine.
No matter what, I will always hate Death Battle with as much hate as to THEM
There are some episodes I either don't want to watch or revisit because of the character I like more losing or just not being done well, and sometimes it can be really draining talking about those episodes especially if it's one where I care much less about the actual verdict and more of the characterization of the character I like more, I don't think I have to explain why Ed vs Aang is one of those (It hurts double when you love both), but any time I mention I don't like Ganondorf vs Dracula because of how Ganondorf is handled the discussion immediately becomes possibly one of the most annoying things, and yea I can be pretty stern with it but that is also just due in part to me just being sick of Smash being used for animation purposes when he literally does not fight like that at all, seeing him be characterized as a mindless brawler who just goes in all the time again and again is irritating, combine this with how Zelda has been treated in the vs community for years just because of two specific episodes and you have a recipe for disaster for how I feel about stuff, the stuff I already don't like about it plus the discussions/arguments I get in about it just makes me not want to touch the episode at all again, Vader vs Obito will be hard to revisit again but I can at least watch it and enjoy how he actually feels like himself in the fight and how the analysis is pretty good despite the outcome which would bring me back to it. The discussion of DB episodes can be annoying at times, and even disagreeing (Or agreeing with in some of my circumstances) can get you in such hot water for no reason, it would be nice if eventually all that can die down and more people start to understand and see that vs is subjective.
Someone understands it.
I really like this analysis. It put into words some feelings I had that I was struggling to fully figure out myself. I honestly felt like I was biased for my dislike of this episode because I much prefer Ben over Hal, but in a similar episode of Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly I really loved the episode despite having similar love for Steven as opposed to Star.
Thanks for the awesome video and thought provoking analysis
In my opinion the verdict does and doesn’t matter. Let’s say this: If po lost against iron fist or stitch lost against rocket most people wouldn’t have liked it as much because some of the first movie characters lost. Sure they still liked the episode but they would have been happier if they won. People are biased by nature so are always more happy when one character wins than another. I love Kirby vs Majin Buu and sure if Kirby lost I wouldn’t have loved it as much but seeing my boy getting the respect was nice. It’s like how you hate ragna vs sol. Sure the verdict didn’t matter but the way they treated your character did.
In guts vs dimitri if the first fire emblem character lost it would have soured the episode a bit.
In conclusion sure it shouldn’t really matter but seeing your preferred character get the respect they deserve and winning will always make people happier.
@@roobyrne3075tell that to classicmand
@@roobyrne3075 I’m saying if iron fist was actually capable of winning
You just described my issue with Star Butterfly Vs Steven Universe
@@e1iteyoshi998 That Steven lost or how he was represented. He was represented great in the fight with him being extremely kind and not wanting to fight until he went pink and became murderous like in the show.
@@KirbyStarAnimation Star Butterfly actually.
Something I've always wondered about that death battlle: What about Ben's ability to use the omnitrix to modify the DNA of an entire race on voice command? Couldn't he use that to turn Green latern into a bug? Just like Dr. Animo did with a single piece of the omnitrix in one of the episodes of the original series.
when is it said to have the ability to modify an entire species at will? didn't animo have to build an entire machine to amplify it and acheive that specific power?
hal's specifically genetic tampering by cosmic god weapons before and can actually do the same thing, i'm just curious about the omnitrix power.
@@danielwilson8604
Ben literally used voice command to modify the DNA of the entire Highbreed race in the finale of alien force. And has accidentally modified Kevin and Gwen, his own parents in the movies, Rook, many plumber trainees, villains and even Azmuth himself. And future Ben can even fuse alien species.
Keep in mind that Dr. Animo managed to use this ability of the Omnitrix to modify DNA just by having one single piece of the omnitrix to work with. Now imagine the power that Ben has to modify DNA of others in an instant with the entire Omnitrix at his disposal.
@@giboit. fair enough, it still likely wouldn't do much in this situation, and completey drained the battery when we saw it, but you are completely right that it can alter an entire species.
i wouldn't call the fusion thing the same though, it's just editing the archetypes the omnitrix uses to transform ben.
@@danielwilson8604
It only runs out the battery when it's used on universal scale, like in the case of the Highbreeds. It can totally modify the DNA of single individual as if it was nothing without issues.
And I think the fusion feature is relevant because it massively increases Ben's potential in battle.
@@giboit. wfair enuogh, it still wouldn't actually do anything to someone who can resist genetic modification or alteration to his personal reality.
and the fusion feature would be an interesing addition, but wouldn't change much. hal has pretty much all of ben's powers, but can use more at once, even with the fusion feature, without sacrificing any power to do so. would have been cool to see though.
Okay, so. Originally I was going to wait until the season 6 ranking to give my GARGANTUAN opinions on the episode, as I'm a massive Ben 10 fan (like, right in between a casual who watches it time to time, and Kuro) but if you're going to make it far easy for me by making an entire video just for it, I might as well do it already. (and sorry in advance if my comment takes like a bajillion years to load if you don’t have much space left)
First of all, AMAZING job. Jesus H tap dancing Christ. A 42 minute video all about the existence of the Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan Death Battle AND the impact it had on the internet as a whole?! That's it. You gained a subscriber. But for real, here is what I think of the episode:
I didn't enjoy it very much
Don’t get me wrong. It’s not a BAD episode per say, there’s definitely other cartoon episodes far worse (looking at you, Danny Jake) and I can see why many people would like it, but I didn’t think it was AS good as other people do.
Most of it comes from the Ben 10 side of the episode and how IIIIIIIIIIII(just a reminder that this entire comment is my subjective take on the video so please be civilized)IIIIIIIIIIII did not like it as a fan of the show, like at all.
Starting with Ben’s analysis,there are 4 things that grind my gears:
1-The characterization of Ben Tennyson. There is none. Sure, they start it really interesting by basically recapping the first episode of the show (how he wasn’t that different from any other kid, was about to embark on a really boring summer vacation, and they even brought up the original intro of the show, for both the background music as well as the lyrics), mentioned how his quick thinking has save him from a lot of situations, and how bratty he’s as a 10 year old.
AAAAAAAAND that it’s.
Yep, what feels like less than 10 seconds of characterization, there’s no more Benjamin Kirby Tennyson for the rest of the analysis. Nothing about the rest of his personality, nothing about his relationships with others, nothing about how the Omnitrix has affected him in all the years he has worn it. Nothin’. So despite having his name on the title, as well as saying his name here and there, it’s really easy and justifiable to forget there was A character using the watch in the first place
And look, I’m aware that DB has tackled fictional characters whose personalities are not their strong suit. In fact, just NOW at the start of the year we had Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead, LITERAL avatars without personality fighting each other. But to simply put it, Ben 10 DOES. HAVE. A PERSONALITY. So while I do not want DB to make a 10 minutes long character analysis on Ben 10, I would have liked to have more than just THREE really superficial quirks.
2-The worldbuilding. Hey, do you like the idea of DB exploring a franchise with over 10 years of content, the single most complex multiverse Cartoon Network has ever made, a great and colorful cast stacked with fan-favorites, and only name-dropping TWO. WHOLE characters?
‘Cause that’s NOT how it “completely” feels. Yeah, I know most people come for the aliens and their abilities, so I’m glad they were allowed to have to privilege of getting a name-drop, but at the same time. Where’s the creator of the Omnitrix and mentor figure to Ben, Azmuth? Favorite cousin, Gwen Tennyson? Even bigger mentor and experienced badass, Grandpa Tennyson? Bestest friend, Kevin Ethan Levin? Any other villain who got inside of his head and WASN’T Vilgax?
My criticism isn't about DB NOT saying the name of every singular character Man of Action has ever created for almost 15 years, but how small they make the world of Ben 10 feel by only focusing on the marketable aliens.
Aren’t they the appeal and whole point of the franchise? Yes, yes they are.
Are they the ONLY interesting or relevant thing? HELL. NO. (Oh, as an example, just watch the part of the episode where they said Feedback was able to hold the Big Bang, and how they refer to Maltruant, the LAST. VILLAIN. PERIOD Ben has to deal with, as “robot supervillain”......)
3-The butchering of the Omnitrix. Yeah that’s right. I’m going as far as to say that DB ABSOLUTELY misunderstood the point of the watch. Look, considering all the writers and staff changing and leaving, as well as the fact that the in-universe creator, Azmuth, made the Omnitrix a butt-load of years ago, the truest reason of why it exists may never be revealed. But even then, whatever reason the watch was created: For understanding, amends; alien ark; Zennith, etc, they ALL shared one thing in common. ITS. NOT. A. WEAPON. Something that apparently DB didn’t understand when they portrayed the aliens as glorified Mega Man weapons.
AND YES I’M GOING TO TO COMPLAIN TO AN INTERNET SHOW FOR SHOWING CARTOON ALIENS AS ONE TRICK PONIES AND NOT COMPLEX SPECIES
BECAUSE.
THAT.
IS.
THE.
POINT.
OF.
THE.
WHOLE.
FRANCHISE.
From Vilgax, passing though Inspector 13, to Albedo, everyone who sees and wants to use the Omnitrix as a weapon has always been shown as the WRONGFUL. VILLAIN. Because a weapon is the one thing the Omnitrix will ever be in the hands of Ben Tennyson.
If you want to understand better what I’m talking about, I’ll recommend checking Nem’s videos about characters he doesn’t want on DB and how FURIOUS it makes him the idea of using real life animals on the show, as I think he explains and deliver the points way better than I ever could.
4-And lastly, what probably is my BIGGEST hot take on the Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan Death Battle, is this.
The conclusion is not the only problem, Ben’s analysis is JUST AS BAD.
There. I say it. And that’s because of one simple factor: They made Ben Tennyson UNDEFATABLE. No. This is not a hyperbole. I’m DEAD serious when I say the analysis portrayed Ben as a character who DOESN’T. LOOSE. Don’t believe? Well, then tell me one of his weaknesses as shown in the analysis.
The watch has to recharge? Not anymore, thanks to master control.
Ben’s immaturity could get in the way? What problematic immaturity? Didn’t you see how they IMMEDIATELY said that he grew out of it when he became a teen?
Alien X has to convince his other 2 personalities to do something as simple as lifting a finger? What are you talking about? Ben has full control of Alien X after fighting the Galactic Gladiator. See what I mean? Every time when they “seem” to give Ben a weakness that could determine his success against Hal, they said “Nevermind, he doesn't have it anymore”
And look, Ben Tennyson HAS weakness (both as a child, and even as an adult) that could cause him to lose the battle. What about him underestimating his opponents and getting cocky? Causing them to get the lead? The fact that, despite having master control, he can only use ONE alien at a time? (let’s say Ben wants to do an electric, fire, and ice attack, he has to transform to 3 different aliens one after the other, while Hal can just spawned 3 elemental attacks at ONCE) Any damage an alien takes (let’s say, a broken arm) is also taken by Ben?
None of these actual, TRUE weaknesses Ben has that could make the idea of Green Lantern winning more believable before the conclusion are represented at all, so I will die on this hill before admitting that the conclusion did a solo job, when it’s just not the case. Everyone would have been far more forgiving (probably not that much, but definitely more) if only DB would have shown Ben Tennyson as someone who can and HAS loose.
And some of you may be wondering: “Okay. We get it. You don’t like the Ben 10 fraction of the episode. Could you please, at the very least, talk about Green Lantern”. Well here’s the thing, I’m nowhere NEAR as passionate for Hal’s analysis; the fight; or the conclusion, as everyone else, people who have talked about those portions and have already taken the words outta my mouth. Green Lantern’s portion is better than Ben; Fight is flawed but at the very least solid; Conclusion sucks ch0des.
Which brings me to my final, actually final, thing to say. The most frustrating part this whole episode, BY A LONG SHOT. Is the fact that my favorite web-series, has tackled my 2nd most favorite piece of fiction of all time (Adventure Time takes the cake), and YET, I ended up having a better time whenever they talk and discuss about ANY OTHER PART OF THE EPISODE that doesn’t focus Ben 10. Which sucks.
Oh and if you’ve actually read this entire thing Johnathan. Great video, sorry for taking 2 hours of your life on a TH-cam comment.
1. Your comment wasn't that long of a read.
2. Don't worry about long comments. TALK YOUR SHIT KING!!!
@@JonathanFrostathan so this is how it feels to have your own Ragna vs Sol, huh?
@@benjaminjara7312 SO TRUUUUUUUUUE
@benjaminjara7312 You knocked it out of the park with the critique of Ben's anyslsis. I didn't even realize that they didn't list a single weakness for Ben that wasn't immediately contradicted.
This analysis knocked it out of the park. perfectly captured my reasons for why Ben 10 was just done incredibly poorly and made the entire fanbase of the show out to be dickbags..
I think the main problem people had was not THAT ben lost. But HOW ben lost.
- A one sided time-travel strike is a cheap win, when both sides can time travel.
- Detachment without the omnitrix reacting goes against multiple instances where the omnitrix reacts to preceived acts of detachment even before being touched.
- The omnitrix not being autonomous when attached to Bens DNA is also directly contradicted by the show itself since his hand (despite still being linked to him, meaning it is not just autonomous but actually can overwrite Bens command) is actually controlled by the omnitrix.
- And one of the most creative power switchers with the transformation that has the most diverse skilset goes full goku and just punches really hard.
That does not show insight into the character. That shows they had a severe, and I mean SEVERE lack of research going into bens side.
Would these factors change the outcome of the fight? I don't think so.
But would it make the fight end on a better note? Absolutely.
[A small gripe about your video tho: The Argument that people who point out bias are biased sounds good ... and that is where it ends. It is nonsense and you are better off not using phrases which get a pass only because they sound good but add zero value to the conversation and stigmitises a very legitimate concern. You are better than that.]
1. Ben has never time traveled without the help of either other people or devices. If Ben could time travel, he would have no need for the time cycles in "End of an era", and that was AFTER Ben gained control of Alien X.
2. The omnitrix has no failsafe for limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself from Ben's wrist. Cutting Ben's arm off is neither of those. Every time someone tried to cut Ben's arm off, he was saved by outside help, never by the omnitrix. Not that this matters because Hal's constructs are faster than the failsafe.
3. Ben is not particularly creative with his aliens. When he fought Galactic Gladiator, all Ben did was punch and kick, and didn't even do anything beyond basic stuff like that until he was grabbed and used clones to break out. Even when Galactic Gladiator grew bigger, Ben didn't even think "Hm...maybe I should do that too" instead literally going back on his deal with Bellicus and Serena by asking them for help. It is not in-character for Ben to use any of Alien X's more op abilities. Bellicus and Serena were the ones who recreated the universe, not Ben. The fandom heavily overplays Ben's intelligence. It is literally a running gag throughout omniverse that Ben is an idiot. He doesn't even solve any problems by himself. Even Rook comments on it.
@@tobymulema4430 An immature teenager who can't do shit without other people helping him is NOT smarter than an adult with decades of experience. Omniverse literally makes fun of Ben for being so dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Omniverse itself attacks Ben for being dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Hal has literally killed multiversal gods who make anything in Ben 10 look like child's play, including Alien X. He can do more than "create big fists". Read the comics, not the non canon animated and live action stuff. Hal has decades more experience fighting than Ben. Ben has not even been alive for half as long as Hal has been fighting intergalactic threats. Stop trying to make Ben sound impressive, he's not. Not compared to Hal, anyway.
@@tobymulema4430 The best Ben has done is create ONE universe. That's it.
You want me to name these multiversal gods? Ok let's start then.
Darkseid
Parallax
Krona
Spectre
Superboy Prime
Nekron
Captain Atom
Ion
thing is is that when alien x flicked hal, that's where the fight should have ended. also the series ends with Ben using the omnitrix to create the BIG BANG.
or if not that. when he grabbed hal. alien X is a being surpassing that of a god. once he grabbed hal, he could have just erased him.
@@halfknight2310
Expect he couldn't you didn't watch either videos and it shows
@@l0sts0ul89
Why couldn't he?
He's a fucking God.
@@wiggard
No the fuck he's not lmao 💀 all he did was create a universal whoop dee doo, hey guess what Anti-Monitor released an infinite amount of universes and he isn't even the strongest guy around.
A flick from a mere universal reality warper is not enough to even budge Hal. Alien X could punch Hal a billion times a second and Hal still wouldn't even budge. You're talking a universal being against a multiversal being, which is infinite universes.
Also, Alien X didn't stop the universe destruction. Because Ben was busy debating with Serena and Bellicus
It’s quite literally impossible to remove the omnitrix from ben’s body unless you use a device that was literally made to do that specific task.
No limits falicy
@@debater452 No, it's not.
@@justinalicea1590 that was the prototype omnitrix if you watched the tv show it wouldn’t take you much brainpower to realize the difference failsafes that Omnitrix gets after it recalibrates. The pulse was the first form of difference used to push anyone back so Ben could choose what alien he wanted to use to defend himself. After Ben got the perfect omnitrix in at the end of Ultimate he’s basically unkillable because the omnitrix will cycle through all of his alien forms and change into each one until it finds and alien that can survive whatever is trying to kill Ben. This is shown when he holds a universe destroying nuke in his hands and the omnitrix cycles through all his different aliens until it picked feedback. There are other failsafes shown throughout the series it is literally shown and told to the viewer throughout the series what each failsafes is and what they’re purpose is and what they does after being triggered.
@@debater452 if you can kill all the aliens in bend omnitrix individually then you have nothing to worry about. It’s not a no limits fallacy you’re just not thinking of a character that can kill alien X or feedback or any other overpowered alien ben can turn into.
@@justinalicea1590 I also literally said that there is a device specifically made to remove the omnitrix or did you just choose to ignore that part. Obviously one of the omnitrix’s weakness is advanced technology Cyborg could probably beat Ben before he transforms by just hacking into the Omnitrix. It literally took me 5 seconds to think of a DC character that can beat Ben based on a weakness he is shown to have. None of the green lanterns have anything that can bypass the omnitrix and it’s multiple failsafes it’s automatically a win for Ben since he can just keep transforming into different aliens. Ben won’t get tired since he’s never shown to become tired from transforming rapidly and it’s also the most effective way for him to fight since Hal wouldn’t be able to handle something like that.
if the failsafe pulse has a cooldown how didn’t the failsafe change him to a alien like you said diamond head it literally spammed change ben when he was stopping the universe from getting destroyed again
The alien x ben in the future would not have been erased, since Alien X is immune to the timeline being erased, and would have been able to follow green lantern and defeat him
Okay couple things:
1: Ben Singer never said he was a fan of Ben 10, I’m pretty sure he deliberately said he didn’t know anything about Ben 10 back on death battle cast (I believe it was the one with the community Death Battle Cast “Ben 10 Vs. Ten Ben Singers” back in DBC’s early days). Maybe he learned about it during research and enjoyed the show, but where exactly are you getting that from, was it the QnA itself?
2: I thought the sprites were from the Cartoon Network flash game “Battle Ready”? Maybe I’m mistaken (since I’m looking through the sprites now on another tab)
3: “I’m schizophrenic” references Alien X’s multiple personalities and maybe Hal Jordan’s decent into madness as a Parallax, but that’s a bit offensive if you ask me.
4: Mandrakk was defeated by multiple Green Lanterns on low power and multiple alternate universe Supermen’s heat vision burning him alive. Hal was not alone in the assault.
5: The U-Bomb was a device that would condense the universe down to a a quark, Hal Jordan disarmed it and the resulting deffusion gave off the energy equivalent of a supernova. I have no idea why Death Battle used that to support Universal Scaling when there are other far better examples and one of the reasons why I’m pretty pissed at them for it. You know besides Hal Jordan “ARRESTING GOD”.
6: Alien X can resist the effects of Time-Line Destruction because he literally survived the destruction of the universe, Time and Space included in that. (Confirmed by Duncan Roulo and addition CN comic sources). Thought I’d bring that up as well.
7- BIG ONE HERE: It’s pronounced Kuro (Kur-O) The Artist, The Ink Tank is the LLC company that he created out of his channel. I do actually agree with you that Kuro did straight up ignore a lot of the stats for Hal, I wish he had addressed them. But Liam did ignore a lot for Ben in episode and even on the QnA and even falsely addressing the context for Hal’s feats (yet two wrongs don’t make a right do they 😑) I actually don’t like Kuro’s 3rd video he made about the DB very much, for all the reasons you listed, but you did leave out how Liam literally got fact checked by Kuro playing the clip of how the Sotobro Effect works, which is where I feel his resentment comes from. But I don’t think there was any malicious or ill intent towards Death Battle shown in Kuro’s videos. Yet there is some condescension I wish wasn’t there and I do really wish he power scaled Hal Jordan. Just to be fair. I really agree with you there.
As a Death Battle, Ben 10 and Ink Tank fan, I actually liked this video and the evidence you brought up. I agree with like 60% of your points and even look back on some of my own research despite my still heard beliefs. But to answer your question at the end: the verdict matters (at least in a conventional sense of trying) because the show’s literal tagline is “It’s our job to analyze their weapons, armor and skills to find out who would win a death battle”, and anything less of that (to me) would be considered misinformation (which apparently has previously happened before as you stated with Guts Vs. Nightmare). I especially have a problem with low balling characters on all fronts which I’m glad now they’re trying to manage, but when episodes become more unreliable like this and only have their great fights and music (Emerald Heroes is just the best track), it just becomes another "Vs Show" like Super Power Beat Down or Minute Melee or even DBX. It doesn’t feel right, and even for Ben to win or lose doesn’t matter, all that mattered was their execution of the information and portrayal of the characters. Which even for Ben he seems written a bit more juvenile for liking, but still.
I do still watch and enjoy Death Battle A LOT, but they’ve lost more of my trust more than Kuro has here. They’ve been on air for years, growing with a production pipeline, there was no reason for the final analysis to be this sloppy and to pull a time travel misdemeanor.
I saw my old blog was also shown in your montage here- 31:17
Its kind of outdated and some of the information and opinions I held at the time I don’t stand by now, but I’d recommend giving it a readover, some of the stuff Death Battle even mentioned is in there and I hoped to go into more of GL's feats than what Kuro did: comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/death-battle-ben-10-vs-green-lantern-my-thoughts-2023537/
I also did Ben 10 Powerscaling (so you know, I’ll claim my bias there): th-cam.com/play/PLms4jgyiXKuQd9NtC3wgr6mCnR368y3cT.html
I pronounced Kuro the way I did because of my inner weeb. Also, the idea of Hal Jordan "arresting God" sounds very funny to me. XD
that's not how the u bomb was defeated. it was disarmed by being shunted into hal's pocket dimension ring universe, which survived the full detonation, though that did set up future storylines.
mandraak flat out ignored the effects of multiple supermen's heat vision until hal staked him. it's not the only time he's killed an immortal either. and hal only used other green lanterns to refill his power, which has established precedent in the series.
also, the series establised that the anihlaarg ONLY affected space, not time. he's never survived timeline destruction and it's not consistent with how other beings outside of time handle the situation.
and no, the sotobro effect doesn't trace all time travellers. if it did, ben would be able to tell that eon travelled back in time, vilgax and eon wouldn't be able to evade paradox and most relevant of all, paradox wouldn't be able to sneak up on alien x. he also wouldn't be capable of reching or affectig alien x if he were completely outside time, for that matter, since he's admitted he can't go, forexample, before the beginning of time, and that time travellers lose their powers if they leave time altogether.
i respect what you're trying to say, but i lost a lot of faith i debunks because of this fight, especially when it comes to alien x. who's scaling borders on it's own entire canon in the eyes of it's fans. i am familiar with your rundown, but there are a number of assumptions, and logical gaps that mean i cannot agree with it.
I definitely agree with this take.
@@danielwilson8604
U-Bomb:
In The Green Lantern #6 and #7, Hal was blasted into his ring’s own micro universe which was dying as a result of a low charge, which his being there was caused by the U-Bomb. However it’s confirmed by Hal- “There was a U-bomb. I had to disarm it. Guardians diverted the entire out put of the Central Battery through my
power ring-shot us into deep space- enough energy to kill me, but the ring-the ring would do anything to keep me alive-"
There are better examples for Hal Jordan’s Universal scaling, but this Hal has aid from other lanterns, their lights literally flickering throughout the universe because of the power diversion. And Adam Strange at Hal’s funeral says the energy recorded was 10-to the 44th power joules, which is a supernova, confirmed in Death Battle: Captain Marvel Vs. Shazam. HE DISARMED IT. I am so done with this conversation point.
Mandrakk:
Mandrakk was getting burned and visibly effected by multiple blasts of heat vision in Final Crisis. Hal also had aid from other lanterns on low power in one last effort, not to refill his power, they did it together “So gimme one last effort team, ALL TOGETHER, AND SPIKE THIS VAMPIRE!”. Superman would have been killed if they had’t all showed up.
Annialarg:
While I can agree with inconsistencies of both Ben 10 and Hal Jordan lore, respectfully speaking….where are you getting the Annialarg information from? Because I can tell you…it’s false: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1667561066207801347
The Sotobro Effect:
I’ve addressed this before here, but even then, it doesn’t matter. The timeline destruction point means that Alien X would be unaffected by Time Travel: twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687267851382509568?s=20 and twitter.com/Lopresti101/status/1687280185953968128?s=20
Thoughts on your final statement:
In all seriousness, I don’t care who wins anymore and I hate the debate now. I’m more pissed at some members of Death Battle for egging on this type of argument continuously and it’s pointlessness to both ends of Ben 10 and Green Lantern, which speaks volumes to the community at large. And yet I still defend Ben despite Duncan Roulou practically shooting himself in the foot saying “Alien-X-Stinction” is canon to Ben Prime. Where Alien X gets beat by Fourarms. So sure, Hal wins. Maybe.
But if you’re talking about my blog or videos for “assumptions” or “logical gaps”, you’re probably right on some of it and I don’t stand by them strongly for those reasons now. I give you full marks for that and any error I find out or miss.
But not to put too fine a point on it, you just said my statements on the U-Bomb, Mandrakk, Annialarg, and the Sotobro Effect were misconstrued…when they weren’t (unless future comic events in the Grant Morrison run do cover the U-Bomb for future storylines that I just don't know about). So I can’t really agree with you considering your “deliberately choosing the weakest possible outcome” for those events (Annialarg and Sotobro Effect).
@@lopresti101 thank you for replying and for adressing my points individually, you are correct about the u bomb, thank you for bringing these points to my attention and i apologize.
however, i similarly stand by my statements about the anihlaarg and the sotobro effect, the wiki is referring to a statment that he can sense chornosapiens, but that statement is given as a reason they should use paradox's time powers to sneak up on him instead.
the comic isn't part of the main canon while the show itself consistenly maintains the differences both before and after that point in the timeline, among other things. even having beings from outside the event's effects draw attention to them. i found it to be quite clever continuity writing. however, i won't try to force that point any harder, both as it's best explained visually and as you are clearly over the matter. i can understand that.
i once again apologise for my tone. l was likely thinking of an older version of the post when i said that and i do appreciate you taking the time to correct it from that version. have similarly experieced a lot of bizzare answers, mainly over alien x. at least three people have accused me of making up the contemelia in an attempt to try and weaken alien x. or insisted that the trial episode didn't happen. you didn't deserve that tone though, i cannot apologise enough.
I like how we have reached the point where people can make 40+ minute videos on youtube video series
I think the analysis was the problem, if they had simple said Hal Jordan is multiversal, the DC universe is 100 trillion times bigger than ours... And Hal survived a DC universe complete destruction and DC's big bang... Yeah, I don’t think Alien X can ever reach that level in a single fight. In any case, I think it was a giant presentation problem
What are you on about? Alien X is 26th infinite dimensional AT, THE, VERY, LEAST. Hal Jordan comes in NO WAY, at the 15th dimensional tier of power, let alone the 26th. Please know your facts.
And ahem, one of ben 10s universe is infinite. So yeah. The 100 trillion times bigger universe does NOT matter in front of infinity.
@@sugardady1019 Alien X is not 26D. Ben 10 doesn't have dimensional scaling, as seen by how the 5D Contimella made a barrier to protect themselves against the creation of a universe.
And no, the Ben 10 universe is not infinite. We see its finite size from the space beyond it and when it is first born from the Big Bang.
@@Student-c6k ?????????? Are you ok? That universe argument is extremely dumb because we can see an entire universe in dbz yet we take it as an infinite space with other 6 infinite sized pockets. Anyways, celestilsapiens are in charge of the Ben 10 cosmology, which actually have undefined amounts of dimensions. 26D is an EXTREME lowball, and doesn’t even make sense, considering there are far more dimensions that exist.
How delusional can you be?
@@Student-c6kWrong. Alien X is High 1-B.
Is the Omnitrix fail safe a lot faster than anything what Hal Jordan could do of cutting Ben's arm?
This is an interesting video to discover your channel from. I will say that I grew up with Ben 10 so I’m 100% biased in his favor but I know that outside of Batman characters most DC characters are cracked. I feel Hal wins though I feel the fight itself was pretty disappointing as someone who returned to watching DB with the episode.
My main issue is how weirdly Ben is represented. Like you’ve seen the Kuro video so seeing Kid Ben pulling out Alien X is the same energy as seeing like Classic Megaman use a Megaman X ability. As someone who adored the franchise seeing them only use Original Series aliens (and Alien X) then proceed to blue ball the fans by bringing up numerous cool aliens Ben used and their stats…it really hurts man. Also stings learning apparently there was a cut scene with RATH and they cut it?????
I feel in retrospect Ben 10 is legit one of the harder fighters to use with the budget DB fights have, but man I just wanted to see the Ben I watched over the years and see some of the cooler stuff like Atomix, Crash Hopper, Chromastone, and Buzzshock. I heard apparently they want to use Ben again in the future and honestly I support them doing it I feel they can improve using Ben in the future (the DBX was…alright? I like that they used more aliens but also seeing every alien’s sprite be literally the Official art but pixelated takes me out of the fight constantly)
I really enjoy hearing your thoughts on this especially seeing you cover the Kuro videos since while I use to agree with him on some parts the composite Ben bit was so scuffed! Welp…time to go through your Catelog and catch up on your content. Amazing video!!
YOU USED THE MIND ELECTRIC AS BG MUSIC IN THE INTRO PART, I THOUGHT I WAS LOSING MY MIND
Great video. It really does surprise me that this is one of the most controversial episodes in DB history.
I actually love the episode. When I saw the teaser, it immediately made sense to me. I watched Ben 10 a lot growing up and Hal is my favourite GL.
A complaint I will say that the time travel was not necessary. Or at least probably shouldn't have been the climax. I didn't know about GL's time manipulation so it took some time for me to wrap my head around it. I'm glad they didn't go too crazy as this isn't like Cable vs Booster Gold; them battling through time would have jumped the shark a bit. I would've preferred them just battling through space and to the edge of the universe they seem to love to mention.
Kuro throwing his hat in the ring was something I was surprised by but wasn't shocking. I followed him for a time and once I saw the debunk it was exactly what I expected. I don't think I watched the others as I could smell the salt from the thumbnails. Not to bash Kuro as I do respect the guy but I know a wounded fan boy when I see one (takes one to know one).
The episode has flaws, especially in the wrap up but this episode is ony top 10. I enjoyed it a lot despite the bad reception.
Ben 10 solos though
@@Herculean_Primeno he doesn't 😐
@@Guy_who_likes-musicI don't see Hal creating a universe
@@Herculean_Prime don't see ben surviving blast from a guy who erased the entire multiverse
@@Guy_who_likes-musicalien x
POV: Anytime you hear the mind eletric you think of death battle:
This is an amazing video its so detailed and well made