I am 99% sure as many other mentioned this: smart lock upgrade DOES NOT affect the amount of bullets fired at the enemy. It only affects the number of locks! For example without smart lock upgrade you can get 12 locks on a single grunt but the gun will never fire more bullets than you need to kill the grunt!
Now that the shard diffractor is out, I kinda want to see you comparing Executioner lok-1 with inferno breach cutter vs ECR lok-1 with overdrive booster shard diffractor.
Super awesome video! I always liked the lok-1 smart rifle but struggled with it but shifting my mind set to using it as a med-long range higher priority target gun vs add clear primary totally changed my experience with it. Thank you for making DRG more fun for me.
I really hope youtube algrithom can help your video more then now it dose your video is full of raw statistic data and perfect editing quality, which is very lacking in youtube for drg content. it is truly a hidden gem. I am already exited for your future video talking about weapon data :)
Those editing skills have truly leveled up! Video looks amazing! Comparisons are super interesting! I think the clear loser is definitely Seeker Rounds, since it occupies the same niche as Executioner and is definitely not as efficient for what it does. Seeker Rounds a lot less intensive in the skill department, though. A good trick to get consistent 3-locks with ECR (or any Electric Generator Mod build, really) without wasting them on chaff is to aim at the edge of the swarm instead of the middle. Gets a lot easier that way, even though the explosions are obviously less effective. Explosions in non-ideal spots trump no explosions at all, though. Regarding ECR vs Exec. I feel like it comes to personal preference, but I also think that ECR does an excellent job in the super-horde killer build at covering the situations where the Breach Cutter isn't at its strongest, such as when a high volume of bugs is engaging from a vertical surface instead of coming from a relatively flat area, and while it's true that Proximity Mines and Plasma Bursters can take care of that situation just fine, there are situations where they might be stretched thin. It's also true that the PGL is a lot more effective than the BC when the terrain isn't feeling cooperative, and Executioner can run it interchangeably the BC. In the end, Executioner is definitely better when evaluating the engineer as a self-contained package since not having a strong single target damage source makes a fair bit of situations a lot more cumbersome than what they should be (hello, Opressors) but things aren't usually contained within a single character. Plus my gunner friend gets a bit mad when he doesn't get the most kills. Might as well increase my odds to come up on top as much as I can, right? ;) (I know it's an useless metric, but for some reason it's very important to him). Rock and stone!
Interesting that I always see the comparison between executioner 11111 and 11312 but I never see anyone discuss what I tend to run which is 11112. It is like people assume that if you go ECR then you have to go with the electrocution final upgrade but honestly I feel like taking unstable lock is superior in every way. I don't feel like electrocuting things is very useful because many high priority targets are immune and lower priority targets just die in a burst or 2 anyway. Also with ECR and unstable you have the 20% increase permanently, can have the 40% easily for bigger targets with one inferno breach cutter shot and can even get the full 60% on occasion if you have a teammate that applies it. Really I feel like it is a choice between blowthrough and damage on T3 and I prefer the damage as I tend to use breach or nades for evert time that blowthrough would be useful.
Yeah been thinking about that build also actually and mention it in the video I'm rendering right now! Doing a little mental math on if EGM for grabbers and Goo bombers is really better than ULM.
The issue is that you're SUPPOSED to only use 3 locks to trigger ECR to be as ammo efficient as possible, otherwise you're only using 1/4th of the ECR explosions. T5B gives you a 20% damage boost when you use all your locks, while T5A gives you electrocution which means you essentially have a permanent +20% damage boost if you shoot 3+ locks. Executioner is a different story, but you made it sound like unstable is superior even on ECR (at least that's how I read it.)
I'll die on this hill, but ECR builds are better with T4.B IMO. The slightly slower lock on speed actually helps maintain 3 round burts without going over on things like Guards and the higher lock rate also helps with mid size clusters and making sure you get 3 locks. This is with Inferno BC however, because being able to pull it out and close range wave clear in a emergency is key. Hyper PGL probably needs faster lock on speed. In a vacuum, I agree that Exec is the better and more versatile solo build on higher Haz levels (5+), but in coop, where other dwarves are covering weaknesses (e.g. one example only, but who cares how fast you can kill an Oppressor when the Driller is likely to freeze and axe it), it's a lot more murky. Ammo efficiency analysis goes out the window as well, because in my opinion and experience, neither build falls short of ammo in 4 player co-op anyway. ECR is slightly worse at single target damage, but crazy efficient against mid sized swarms. You can more liberally use Breach for single targets because both weapons are versatile enough against everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Executioner too, but efficiency is often lost in the chaos of battle and in the context of what your allies are doing.
No need to die on the hill. This is a very limited simulation that lacks the support of pick-axe, grenades and turrets and how they would change which of these is most effective.
Really well said. I was going to compare T 4 - A,B but just did not make it into the video. Everything else you say I agree with pretty much. I still feel if your taking an inferno BC then Executioner is going to better than ECR but don't begrudge People going super horde killer, especially as you say your team will likely take out your weaknesses for larger targets anyway!
@@NotbadNZ You might like the video linked below. I talk about tweaks to gear mods overclocks to provide more variation in builds: th-cam.com/video/DX5619ansrc/w-d-xo.html Yeah fear is a bit hit and miss in this game, I can see some use for that mod but it has stiff competition at T5! I'm looking into doing my own Discord server but need to do some research how to manage it properly. Once I do I will do a community post on TH-cam for details how to join. I will look into it more next week.
@@GamingExistence I've watched all your Lok videos :D, love em and you do amazing work. I think T.5C is slept on, but I do need to do more testing before I try and make any waves about it. Ammo efficiency vs. damage is a weird one. If you analyse how often you end missions with unspent ammo, you sometimes have to ask if that +20% damage is really worth it in terms of long term efficiency. In terms of short term efficiency, it REALLY needs to speed up kill speed versus key targets (which I am not arguing it doesn't) to justify taking it. For example, if you had to interrupt a HVT attack to whip out your Breach/Plasma Grenade to clear out some grunts, the immediate efficiency of the +20% damage is lost on that HVT. If instead though, you were confident you could release your 12 round burst and fear the majority of the swarm near you, you've made up that immediate efficiency difference. Just neat things to think about.
I’ve been using the shard diffractor with 450 ammo (ammo mod + ammo OC) and that really helps alleviate the LOK-1s ammo economy being meh since with that much beam ammo you can use it on whatever you want and it’s basically a second primary. It’s also great to ignite praetorians (and melt their HP) for the 40% damage setup with electro gen. If seeker rounds and blowthrough actually worked I’d 100% use them, buuuuut blowthrough and seeker don’t work it seems. Probably due to seeker bullets not being real for some technical reasons I don’t understand
Seeker Rounds doesn't work with blowthrough because Seeker Rounds makes the bullet instantly reach the target without checking if something's in the trajectory. This is how it ignores armor/terrain, and as a side effect it also ignores enemies.
My main objection when you were testing the wave clear seeker build was that you didn't appear to bother with using grenades at all which IMO created an unfair scenario for the build because it's really at it's best with plasma bursters equipped. Usually when you have a large number of enemies on the ground together you want to prioritize using the bursters over the LOK-1, and use the LOK-1 on clusters that are either too small or too spread out to justify using the bursters. On a related note I think the build works better with fear factor in tier 5 since SMRT targeting prevents reaching max locks reliably, and fear factor helps keep the swarm away for longer. Edit: Forgot to say, great video!
SMART Targetting in general is just...bad. As you've said, it has a tendency to leave enemies barely alive because it is 'saving' ammo by not doing overkill. But the gun itself will stop firing once all locked creatures are dead; if you lock all 12 rounds and kill the only locked creature in 2, it won't fire the other 10. So, why take something like that when you can use blowthrough rounds and hit many bugs at once?
Fuck ya man! Keep it up, congratzon 1.01k! I have knowledge of how things work, however I'm not as good with my words when defending my builds and why I use them, at least not to the depth that you do yet lol, so if someone ever questions my build I can just refer them to this video 🤣 I tried the build for the driller, I ran everything the same except unfortunately I don't have any of the OC's that you do for EPC or Cryo, noticed it was hard to take out a Bet-C, everything else has been pretty smooth, perhaps it's the fact I'm missing those OC's that you were using that made Bet-C feel tankier? I know I've asked you about three of the four classes, but I'll have to ask again, what has your experience been with the gunner and how do you like to build him? So far all the video builds you've listed for the other classes have made me enjoy playing them much more if not even more than I enjoy playing the engineer (although my engineer is still my go to for the hardest situations and least likely to go down when thousands of bugs are in the equation).
Thanks Layne! Heavy hitter on the EPC will take down Bet-C if you can aim. It will transform the EPC. Gunner..... He is my least favourite class to be honest and my lowest ranked. I have tried all sorts of builds but just don't get on him really. The hurricane I felt gave him a new lease of life of me and I enjoyed him again. But not done any testing if it really stacks up against the other guns. For Gunner builds I would go in search of other videos. Don't want to give you wrong info and he is way down on my list of making videos for. Sorry I can't be more helpful!
I kind of figured tbh lol, I'm not a huge fan of the gunner either, I play him the least 🤣 the only reason I really play him is for the all gold promotions trophy, I'll look into some other stuff. Gotta try and make playing him enjoyable somehow until I get him to gold, I can see myself getting the other three classes to legendary at some point but yeah so far gunner is the least fun. Who knows? Maybe the new weapons will help with that x.x You plan on covering all the new weapons and overclocks or just the ones for engineer?
@@nightox3 I was the same! Forced myself to play him to get gold promotion. Came back with the hurricane for a bit but then started to really use the Lok-1 to see if it was good, then started to do the videos about it.... So all the other classes went on hold. Mastering when to use your shield generator seems to be the main thing with the gunner. Finding a build which is fun can be a struggle also! I'm now working on the Scout class. My plan is to do something like this: All primary gear mods explained and comapred. (currenty working on, got all the footage, just need to start editing it together, the hard bit!) Each primary gun OC analysis. Best builds compared. My full build breakdown / guide. Hopefully by the time I start getting close to the full breakdown I will have all the new weapons and OC's so can do the Scout secondary videos also. I will likely try and do all the new weapons and OC's but not going to rush content and have the day job to do. I'm sure others will get content out with breakdowns, eventually I will do my full analysis on them after having some play time with them.
the problem I have with these ECR examples is that you don't include grenades. Ok, I know, that would start to get pretty complex at this point. But plasma grenades top up the ECR/hyperprop build when it comes to hoard clearing.
Yeah I know where you are coming from but you answered it yourself. I do with plasma and then people say but it's amazing with lure why no lure examples. Then the same with proxies etc. I try to keep it relatively simple. When I get to the scout version I will take more time to consider the best simulations and have better data. This video was my first attempt and I have much better ways to run the simulations now.
The slow rate of fire completely puts me off of seeker rounds. Haz 5 and up requires quick firing to control hordes. Not fire one bullet stop to make a cup of coffee then fire the next bullet
Bro, plleeeeeease do a build guy for the shard defractor. I love that secondary and I feel like no one does the analysis you do and I’m having a hard time to find which primary pairs with it
"Explosive Chemical Rounds, it runs into those issues of needing those 3 locks" -says the guy who always seems to aim into the center of a group instead of the edges where getting 3 locks is incredibly fast and easy e.g. 13:53. Haha, just teasing you, we've all done it before. You've done great work testing builds and OCs, so why present your findings with so much bias towards Executioner? Case in point, your example with the swarmers where ECR is shown as a "failure" because 6 swarmers == 6 ammo. ECR vs. swarmers is supposed to be one of it's strong points. Executioner can't destroy a whole group of swarmers with one bullet no matter how hard you try. In addition, your test horde is skewed to favor Executioner because you are clearing it with the BC, not the Lok-1 itself. ECR + PGL =/= Exec + BC. You are essentially comparing ECR to the BC instead of ECR to Exec. All I'm saying is if you are going to compare two OCs, it better be strengths to strengths and weakness to weakness. You don't showcase how great Executioner is at killing HVTs and how bad ECR is at killing HVTs. There were no Swarmers, no Naedocytes, no Shredders in your testing to make a fair comparison between the two OCs because a reciprocal comparison of strength vs weakness would be needed to balance it out like showing Executioner in swarmageddon. Ranting aside, I still really enjoyed your video and you always provide valuable insight.
Thanks for the comments. Just to clarify one point. I'm not trying to present that 6 shots to kill 6 swarmers is a failure or that other overclocks would do it better. But that regarding ECR it highlights that sometimes you won't reach its full potential and to highlight the need to really try and get 3 locks. Also as a side note, this video was comparing the full build, this video here is for the overclocks. In future I will try make it more clear if this video is part of a series - th-cam.com/video/AmhG3viKLDc/w-d-xo.html Appreciate the time you took on the comment. Food for thought regarding my future videos. Rock and Stone!
Hi, I may have decided to test Explo-Chem Rounds with Blowthrough Rounds recently. Don't do it. It doesn't work. Edit: And by that i mean the whole it exploding part doesn't
Hey again GE; Just promoted my engineer for the first time today :). I got a screenshot of your lok1 build on my computer lolol makes my life easier. Quick question: Are overclocks just random? Meaning I may have to grind for awhile before I even run into the Executioner overclock for my Lok-1?
Awesome job on the promotion! Your first steps away from turning that green beard grey! From now on when you do DD and Matrix core assignments you will get 1 blank core. This can be used after a machine event. It will come up with three classes (one should always be the one you are playing) and one of them will be to choose an OC. So you can kind of target one classes OC first but they will be random OC across all guns 😔 I will cross my fingers you get it sooner rather than later!
@@duytu2134 Yeah the early grind for materials and blank cores. Took a bit of time when I did it for only 2 primary and 2 secondary slots. Going to be quite a bit for you especially next month with 4 more weapons! You can do it. As you say it's part of it and I sometimes miss getting something new, other than cosmetics that is.
@@GamingExistence I finished my first DD yesterday and lo and behold my first weapon overclock was the lighter ammo clean overclock for the breach cutter (-.2 reload time and +4 ammo capacity i think) how lucky to actually receive something for my engineer haha. Oh yeah I heard theres new weapons, i need to look into that. If theres a new engineer weapon I'm sure you'll have lots of content on it! Haha, you don't care much about cosmetics huh?
@@duytu2134 Light weight cases was one of my first OC's also. That one for the BC will do you proud! A great OC. If the new weapons are good I'm sure I will get round to doing some comparisons and analysis yeah! Cosmetics are ok and still trying to chase them all. Just obviously not as game changing. Also they prolonged the grind as they quadruple up. So you will get a naff looking cosmetic for the engineer but need to get the same one for the other 3 classes. Gets a bit long in the tooth the 4th time you unlock the exact same rubbish victory condition or beard. Hopefully they will change how it works especially with new weapons already increasing the time to get all OC's. I'm on my way to 800 hours and still I think 70-120 cosmetic cores away from completion!
Great question. Mostly the same with some tweaks is what I do. Use whichever executioner setup you prefer and sticking with BC setup. Shield link obviously does nothing so I go Iron Will. You can go faster turret setup although I tend to still get away with slower setup, going to modded difficulties such as H6/7 faster setup is better. Friendly can go also, I normally choose thorns. Hope this helps!
you make build video that are really interesting but i think you miss somthing : grenade. if i take iper propelant i will take plasma burster to help me with the hord and that can be a really good solution to equilibrate a build as well
Yeah really good point. Just makes it very hard to run the simulations! Additional recording, editing, multiple runs for horde patterns, good and bad grenades, some people don't run burster and so on! Hence why i do it without sentry guns also, more variables cause issues. It is a slice of how things work. You also may well be in that situation with zero grenades, 3 players down and need to survive. It is a good test to see what the primary and secondary can really do when you need them. Appreciate the feedback! Rock and stone!
Executioner + RJ250 is what I run on my main build, its just too much utility to ignore imo. I save the Lok-1 for single targets while if the swarm gets close i simply rocket jump away which both takes me completely out of danger AND sets them on fire, not to mention if you have an RJ250 Engineer scout is basically obsolete aside from being a flashlight, even in terms of single target damage the Lok-1 can keep up fairly well by itself.
Honestly, GE says he has a hard time with it but it's really not that difficult. Obviously he says it's annoying for him to do the little mini game and that's fair enough, but if you enjoy that playstyle it makes it much easier. You get a better impression of something if you have fun doing it. For me, I dislike having to wait to get to full locks, even if the locks are fast, even if I only need 8 of them. The smart rifles biggest weakness is extended facing requirements of it's damage delivery. Simply put, you have to look at an enemy for some time before they take damage. This is what makes the Lok-1 feel so awful when things get up in your face, and why pairing it with the breach cutter feels so good. Other guns can kite, turn, shoot, turn, repeat. The warthog excels at this by just instantly deleting most enemies with a single well placed shot, while the stubby manages it using the electrical slow and aoe. Meanwhile, if you want to kite with the Lok-1 and still deal damage, your only option is to back pedal, which is exactly the thing that gets GE killed in the seeker rounds clip. No BC + Lok-1 is a death sentence if more than 3 grunts get into melee with you, you simply cannot move fast enough or deal enough damage to keep the horde off of you. This problem with the lok-1 feels incredibly exacerbated to me when I must achieve full locks, as it prolongs the amount of time that my mobility gets limited. ECR on the other hand drastically shortens the amount of time your mobility is limited since you only need 3 quick locks. That helps it substantially with kiting, especially since for weak enemies the explosion wipes them out, and for larger targets the electricity slows them down. Sure, oppressors are an issue, and bulks kind of suck too (although electric is op vs bulks), but that's what your friendly neighborhood embedded dets scout is for. Anyway, the moral of the story is that if you're like me and hate having to get full locks, the ECR build is great and a lot more fun. Here's hoping the new Shard Diffractor is a single target beast that complements ECR more than hyper propellent.
@@kudumsuz5075 I meant to say in this comment, but forgot to because it was late, you can making getting 3 locks in a crowd much easier by remembering to target the outskirts of said crowd. With the macro lens upgrade, you have a smaller lock on area, but it's not so small that you can aim it in a big group and only lock on to one enemy. What you want to do is aim for the edge of the crowd, using the corners of your targeting square to target one enemy. In other words, most of your targeting area should be completely empty, and just the corner should overlap with an enemy. This change of style will very quickly and easily allow you to take out crowds, starting from the outside and moving in. The radius of the ECR explosion is huge (4m! that's a PGL shot) and even has 50% fear on it. Using that to your advantage, you can very easily "carpet bomb" a swarm by starting at the outside and moving inwards as you identify isolated targets for easy locks. Another recommendation I'd give is to stop thinking about it as 3 locks, and start thinking about the timing of it. If you focus on the number of locks, you're squinting to see the number, and your attention is pulled away from the enemies and the combat. Instead, focus on the timing. How long does it take to get to 3 locks once I start locking on? Answer that question, and get a feel for it with some practice. When I use ECR, I almost never look at the actual number of locks I have, I simply hold the trigger for what I've learned is the correct amount of time, and then release. In that sense it becomes less of a counting minigame and more like a rhythm game. The beat of the rhythm is the time it takes to get 3 locks, and you press, hold, and release to that beat.
@@Bravadorado Man i didnt know that. That means this gun has 2 perfectly balanced builds. Which is amazing. I can easily take hyper propellant with ECR. I know BC is super powerful weapon but for me, its the most boring weapon oin the game. In the other hand HP is so satisfying. Thanks for the tips!
@@kudumsuz5075 I totally agree with you about BC actually. It feels so cheap to use. One click and you wipe out everything in front of you, it's super braindead. It goes to show that power isn't the deciding factor when it comes to being fun. Hyper propellent is a lot of fun, but at the same time it does feel limited for sure by comparison, especially if you have someone else who can already handle the priority targets. I'm really really hoping the Shard Diffractor combos well with ECR, that would be perfect I feel. And np for the tips, glad I could help!
Lok is trash no matter how you build it. Can't sustain ammo for anything and the TTK is meh enough that it doesn't make up for that. I have no real reason to use anything other than the warthog unless they just straight up double the amount of ammo in reserve for the Lok. The explosion from ECR is only good on paper if you can get a bunch of bugs on top of one another while simultaneously not wasting extra bullets getting random 1 or 2 locks on the surround enemy you are trying to blow up. Too much work for not enough pay-off.
I am 99% sure as many other mentioned this: smart lock upgrade DOES NOT affect the amount of bullets fired at the enemy. It only affects the number of locks! For example without smart lock upgrade you can get 12 locks on a single grunt but the gun will never fire more bullets than you need to kill the grunt!
Yup. It works that way. I realise I say ammo efficient I meant lock efficient.
Now that the shard diffractor is out, I kinda want to see you comparing Executioner lok-1 with inferno breach cutter vs ECR lok-1 with overdrive booster shard diffractor.
Super awesome video! I always liked the lok-1 smart rifle but struggled with it but shifting my mind set to using it as a med-long range higher priority target gun vs add clear primary totally changed my experience with it. Thank you for making DRG more fun for me.
I really hope youtube algrithom can help your video more then now it dose
your video is full of raw statistic data and perfect editing quality, which is very lacking in youtube for drg content. it is truly a hidden gem.
I am already exited for your future video talking about weapon data :)
Those editing skills have truly leveled up! Video looks amazing!
Comparisons are super interesting! I think the clear loser is definitely Seeker Rounds, since it occupies the same niche as Executioner and is definitely not as efficient for what it does. Seeker Rounds a lot less intensive in the skill department, though.
A good trick to get consistent 3-locks with ECR (or any Electric Generator Mod build, really) without wasting them on chaff is to aim at the edge of the swarm instead of the middle. Gets a lot easier that way, even though the explosions are obviously less effective. Explosions in non-ideal spots trump no explosions at all, though.
Regarding ECR vs Exec. I feel like it comes to personal preference, but I also think that ECR does an excellent job in the super-horde killer build at covering the situations where the Breach Cutter isn't at its strongest, such as when a high volume of bugs is engaging from a vertical surface instead of coming from a relatively flat area, and while it's true that Proximity Mines and Plasma Bursters can take care of that situation just fine, there are situations where they might be stretched thin. It's also true that the PGL is a lot more effective than the BC when the terrain isn't feeling cooperative, and Executioner can run it interchangeably the BC.
In the end, Executioner is definitely better when evaluating the engineer as a self-contained package since not having a strong single target damage source makes a fair bit of situations a lot more cumbersome than what they should be (hello, Opressors) but things aren't usually contained within a single character.
Plus my gunner friend gets a bit mad when he doesn't get the most kills. Might as well increase my odds to come up on top as much as I can, right? ;) (I know it's an useless metric, but for some reason it's very important to him).
Rock and stone!
Interesting that I always see the comparison between executioner 11111 and 11312 but I never see anyone discuss what I tend to run which is 11112. It is like people assume that if you go ECR then you have to go with the electrocution final upgrade but honestly I feel like taking unstable lock is superior in every way. I don't feel like electrocuting things is very useful because many high priority targets are immune and lower priority targets just die in a burst or 2 anyway.
Also with ECR and unstable you have the 20% increase permanently, can have the 40% easily for bigger targets with one inferno breach cutter shot and can even get the full 60% on occasion if you have a teammate that applies it. Really I feel like it is a choice between blowthrough and damage on T3 and I prefer the damage as I tend to use breach or nades for evert time that blowthrough would be useful.
This actually makes a lot of sense! And it's not even bad for solo since Bosco can provide electrocution.
Thanks for the insight.
Yeah been thinking about that build also actually and mention it in the video I'm rendering right now!
Doing a little mental math on if EGM for grabbers and Goo bombers is really better than ULM.
The issue is that you're SUPPOSED to only use 3 locks to trigger ECR to be as ammo efficient as possible, otherwise you're only using 1/4th of the ECR explosions. T5B gives you a 20% damage boost when you use all your locks, while T5A gives you electrocution which means you essentially have a permanent +20% damage boost if you shoot 3+ locks. Executioner is a different story, but you made it sound like unstable is superior even on ECR (at least that's how I read it.)
I'll die on this hill, but ECR builds are better with T4.B IMO. The slightly slower lock on speed actually helps maintain 3 round burts without going over on things like Guards and the higher lock rate also helps with mid size clusters and making sure you get 3 locks. This is with Inferno BC however, because being able to pull it out and close range wave clear in a emergency is key. Hyper PGL probably needs faster lock on speed. In a vacuum, I agree that Exec is the better and more versatile solo build on higher Haz levels (5+), but in coop, where other dwarves are covering weaknesses (e.g. one example only, but who cares how fast you can kill an Oppressor when the Driller is likely to freeze and axe it), it's a lot more murky. Ammo efficiency analysis goes out the window as well, because in my opinion and experience, neither build falls short of ammo in 4 player co-op anyway. ECR is slightly worse at single target damage, but crazy efficient against mid sized swarms. You can more liberally use Breach for single targets because both weapons are versatile enough against everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Executioner too, but efficiency is often lost in the chaos of battle and in the context of what your allies are doing.
No need to die on the hill. This is a very limited simulation that lacks the support of pick-axe, grenades and turrets and how they would change which of these is most effective.
Really well said. I was going to compare T 4 - A,B but just did not make it into the video.
Everything else you say I agree with pretty much. I still feel if your taking an inferno BC then Executioner is going to better than ECR but don't begrudge People going super horde killer, especially as you say your team will likely take out your weaknesses for larger targets anyway!
@@GamingExistence
@@NotbadNZ You might like the video linked below. I talk about tweaks to gear mods overclocks to provide more variation in builds:
th-cam.com/video/DX5619ansrc/w-d-xo.html
Yeah fear is a bit hit and miss in this game, I can see some use for that mod but it has stiff competition at T5!
I'm looking into doing my own Discord server but need to do some research how to manage it properly. Once I do I will do a community post on TH-cam for details how to join. I will look into it more next week.
@@GamingExistence I've watched all your Lok videos :D, love em and you do amazing work. I think T.5C is slept on, but I do need to do more testing before I try and make any waves about it. Ammo efficiency vs. damage is a weird one. If you analyse how often you end missions with unspent ammo, you sometimes have to ask if that +20% damage is really worth it in terms of long term efficiency. In terms of short term efficiency, it REALLY needs to speed up kill speed versus key targets (which I am not arguing it doesn't) to justify taking it. For example, if you had to interrupt a HVT attack to whip out your Breach/Plasma Grenade to clear out some grunts, the immediate efficiency of the +20% damage is lost on that HVT. If instead though, you were confident you could release your 12 round burst and fear the majority of the swarm near you, you've made up that immediate efficiency difference. Just neat things to think about.
I’ve been using the shard diffractor with 450 ammo (ammo mod + ammo OC) and that really helps alleviate the LOK-1s ammo economy being meh since with that much beam ammo you can use it on whatever you want and it’s basically a second primary.
It’s also great to ignite praetorians (and melt their HP) for the 40% damage setup with electro gen.
If seeker rounds and blowthrough actually worked I’d 100% use them, buuuuut blowthrough and seeker don’t work it seems. Probably due to seeker bullets not being real for some technical reasons I don’t understand
I will have to give it a go and do some analysis on it!
Seeker Rounds doesn't work with blowthrough because Seeker Rounds makes the bullet instantly reach the target without checking if something's in the trajectory. This is how it ignores armor/terrain, and as a side effect it also ignores enemies.
Superb analysis as always! 🥳
My main objection when you were testing the wave clear seeker build was that you didn't appear to bother with using grenades at all which IMO created an unfair scenario for the build because it's really at it's best with plasma bursters equipped. Usually when you have a large number of enemies on the ground together you want to prioritize using the bursters over the LOK-1, and use the LOK-1 on clusters that are either too small or too spread out to justify using the bursters.
On a related note I think the build works better with fear factor in tier 5 since SMRT targeting prevents reaching max locks reliably, and fear factor helps keep the swarm away for longer.
Edit: Forgot to say, great video!
SMART Targetting in general is just...bad. As you've said, it has a tendency to leave enemies barely alive because it is 'saving' ammo by not doing overkill. But the gun itself will stop firing once all locked creatures are dead; if you lock all 12 rounds and kill the only locked creature in 2, it won't fire the other 10.
So, why take something like that when you can use blowthrough rounds and hit many bugs at once?
Smart targeting does not change the number of bullets fired at all.
Even tho its a “balanced” overclock i think its way better for crowd control than even the EC rounds
Give. This. Man. a doctorate in DRG weaponology!
9:45 Electro Chemical Rounds do bonus damage to Electrocuted AND BURNING targets?
Fuck ya man! Keep it up, congratzon 1.01k! I have knowledge of how things work, however I'm not as good with my words when defending my builds and why I use them, at least not to the depth that you do yet lol, so if someone ever questions my build I can just refer them to this video 🤣
I tried the build for the driller, I ran everything the same except unfortunately I don't have any of the OC's that you do for EPC or Cryo, noticed it was hard to take out a Bet-C, everything else has been pretty smooth, perhaps it's the fact I'm missing those OC's that you were using that made Bet-C feel tankier?
I know I've asked you about three of the four classes, but I'll have to ask again, what has your experience been with the gunner and how do you like to build him? So far all the video builds you've listed for the other classes have made me enjoy playing them much more if not even more than I enjoy playing the engineer (although my engineer is still my go to for the hardest situations and least likely to go down when thousands of bugs are in the equation).
Thanks Layne!
Heavy hitter on the EPC will take down Bet-C if you can aim. It will transform the EPC.
Gunner..... He is my least favourite class to be honest and my lowest ranked. I have tried all sorts of builds but just don't get on him really.
The hurricane I felt gave him a new lease of life of me and I enjoyed him again. But not done any testing if it really stacks up against the other guns.
For Gunner builds I would go in search of other videos. Don't want to give you wrong info and he is way down on my list of making videos for. Sorry I can't be more helpful!
I kind of figured tbh lol, I'm not a huge fan of the gunner either, I play him the least 🤣 the only reason I really play him is for the all gold promotions trophy, I'll look into some other stuff. Gotta try and make playing him enjoyable somehow until I get him to gold, I can see myself getting the other three classes to legendary at some point but yeah so far gunner is the least fun.
Who knows? Maybe the new weapons will help with that x.x You plan on covering all the new weapons and overclocks or just the ones for engineer?
@@nightox3 I was the same! Forced myself to play him to get gold promotion. Came back with the hurricane for a bit but then started to really use the Lok-1 to see if it was good, then started to do the videos about it.... So all the other classes went on hold.
Mastering when to use your shield generator seems to be the main thing with the gunner. Finding a build which is fun can be a struggle also!
I'm now working on the Scout class. My plan is to do something like this:
All primary gear mods explained and comapred. (currenty working on, got all the footage, just need to start editing it together, the hard bit!)
Each primary gun OC analysis.
Best builds compared.
My full build breakdown / guide.
Hopefully by the time I start getting close to the full breakdown I will have all the new weapons and OC's so can do the Scout secondary videos also.
I will likely try and do all the new weapons and OC's but not going to rush content and have the day job to do. I'm sure others will get content out with breakdowns, eventually I will do my full analysis on them after having some play time with them.
I have always found executioner to be the only viable oc for the loki
Because of quick locks and more damage. Then I use fat boi and plasma grenades to clear hordes
Yeah same. Others can be interesting... But that damage on executioner trumps them all, in my opinion 😉
@@GamingExistence it also tends to be the most ammo efficient because more damage means less ammo :p
@@peanutm9346 Yup. That's why I really think the base gun needs more ammo with Executioner and ECR only getting a tiny percent of that boost.
@@peanutm9346 Not sure about Fat Boy! But if you can make it work go for it! BC all the way for me 😊
the problem I have with these ECR examples is that you don't include grenades.
Ok, I know, that would start to get pretty complex at this point.
But plasma grenades top up the ECR/hyperprop build when it comes to hoard clearing.
Yeah I know where you are coming from but you answered it yourself. I do with plasma and then people say but it's amazing with lure why no lure examples. Then the same with proxies etc.
I try to keep it relatively simple. When I get to the scout version I will take more time to consider the best simulations and have better data.
This video was my first attempt and I have much better ways to run the simulations now.
The slow rate of fire completely puts me off of seeker rounds. Haz 5 and up requires quick firing to control hordes. Not fire one bullet stop to make a cup of coffee then fire the next bullet
The true best build for the Lok-1 is - the Breach Cutter
Bro, plleeeeeease do a build guy for the shard defractor. I love that secondary and I feel like no one does the analysis you do and I’m having a hard time to find which primary pairs with it
On the list of videos to do ☺️
"Explosive Chemical Rounds, it runs into those issues of needing those 3 locks" -says the guy who always seems to aim into the center of a group instead of the edges where getting 3 locks is incredibly fast and easy e.g. 13:53. Haha, just teasing you, we've all done it before.
You've done great work testing builds and OCs, so why present your findings with so much bias towards Executioner? Case in point, your example with the swarmers where ECR is shown as a "failure" because 6 swarmers == 6 ammo. ECR vs. swarmers is supposed to be one of it's strong points. Executioner can't destroy a whole group of swarmers with one bullet no matter how hard you try. In addition, your test horde is skewed to favor Executioner because you are clearing it with the BC, not the Lok-1 itself. ECR + PGL =/= Exec + BC. You are essentially comparing ECR to the BC instead of ECR to Exec.
All I'm saying is if you are going to compare two OCs, it better be strengths to strengths and weakness to weakness. You don't showcase how great Executioner is at killing HVTs and how bad ECR is at killing HVTs. There were no Swarmers, no Naedocytes, no Shredders in your testing to make a fair comparison between the two OCs because a reciprocal comparison of strength vs weakness would be needed to balance it out like showing Executioner in swarmageddon.
Ranting aside, I still really enjoyed your video and you always provide valuable insight.
Thanks for the comments.
Just to clarify one point. I'm not trying to present that 6 shots to kill 6 swarmers is a failure or that other overclocks would do it better. But that regarding ECR it highlights that sometimes you won't reach its full potential and to highlight the need to really try and get 3 locks.
Also as a side note, this video was comparing the full build, this video here is for the overclocks. In future I will try make it more clear if this video is part of a series - th-cam.com/video/AmhG3viKLDc/w-d-xo.html
Appreciate the time you took on the comment. Food for thought regarding my future videos.
Rock and Stone!
Hi, I may have decided to test Explo-Chem Rounds with Blowthrough Rounds recently.
Don't do it. It doesn't work.
Edit: And by that i mean the whole it exploding part doesn't
Lol ye! 🤣 Also Seeker and blowthrough has issues!
Hey again GE; Just promoted my engineer for the first time today :). I got a screenshot of your lok1 build on my computer lolol makes my life easier. Quick question: Are overclocks just random? Meaning I may have to grind for awhile before I even run into the Executioner overclock for my Lok-1?
Awesome job on the promotion! Your first steps away from turning that green beard grey!
From now on when you do DD and Matrix core assignments you will get 1 blank core. This can be used after a machine event. It will come up with three classes (one should always be the one you are playing) and one of them will be to choose an OC.
So you can kind of target one classes OC first but they will be random OC across all guns 😔
I will cross my fingers you get it sooner rather than later!
@@GamingExistence Okay sounds good! thanks man; It's just a part of the process I suppose!
@@duytu2134 Yeah the early grind for materials and blank cores. Took a bit of time when I did it for only 2 primary and 2 secondary slots. Going to be quite a bit for you especially next month with 4 more weapons!
You can do it. As you say it's part of it and I sometimes miss getting something new, other than cosmetics that is.
@@GamingExistence I finished my first DD yesterday and lo and behold my first weapon overclock was the lighter ammo clean overclock for the breach cutter (-.2 reload time and +4 ammo capacity i think) how lucky to actually receive something for my engineer haha. Oh yeah I heard theres new weapons, i need to look into that. If theres a new engineer weapon I'm sure you'll have lots of content on it! Haha, you don't care much about cosmetics huh?
@@duytu2134 Light weight cases was one of my first OC's also. That one for the BC will do you proud! A great OC.
If the new weapons are good I'm sure I will get round to doing some comparisons and analysis yeah!
Cosmetics are ok and still trying to chase them all. Just obviously not as game changing. Also they prolonged the grind as they quadruple up. So you will get a naff looking cosmetic for the engineer but need to get the same one for the other 3 classes. Gets a bit long in the tooth the 4th time you unlock the exact same rubbish victory condition or beard.
Hopefully they will change how it works especially with new weapons already increasing the time to get all OC's. I'm on my way to 800 hours and still I think 70-120 cosmetic cores away from completion!
turret whip at the end of the day could wipe these glyphids without a sweat.
Hi.. very nice guide.. but what changes you can do for solo playing? or just this is fine? regards
Great question. Mostly the same with some tweaks is what I do.
Use whichever executioner setup you prefer and sticking with BC setup.
Shield link obviously does nothing so I go Iron Will. You can go faster turret setup although I tend to still get away with slower setup, going to modded difficulties such as H6/7 faster setup is better.
Friendly can go also, I normally choose thorns.
Hope this helps!
you make build video that are really interesting but i think you miss somthing : grenade. if i take iper propelant i will take plasma burster to help me with the hord and that can be a really good solution to equilibrate a build as well
Yeah really good point. Just makes it very hard to run the simulations! Additional recording, editing, multiple runs for horde patterns, good and bad grenades, some people don't run burster and so on! Hence why i do it without sentry guns also, more variables cause issues. It is a slice of how things work.
You also may well be in that situation with zero grenades, 3 players down and need to survive. It is a good test to see what the primary and secondary can really do when you need them.
Appreciate the feedback! Rock and stone!
I use El-cr and Ex-cr
I use Seeker because I don't have Executioner. : (
😭
Why doesnt anyone like the utility of spamming an aoe fear on LOK?
Basically because the Breach Cutter is a beast! ☺️
I thought you use the electric Breach Cutter OC?
I have changed, I mentioned it in the BC analysis video and in my Haz 7 true solo part 2 win video.
Executioner + RJ250 is what I run on my main build, its just too much utility to ignore imo.
I save the Lok-1 for single targets while if the swarm gets close i simply rocket jump away which both takes me completely out of danger AND sets them on fire, not to mention if you have an RJ250 Engineer scout is basically obsolete aside from being a flashlight, even in terms of single target damage the Lok-1 can keep up fairly well by itself.
It looks like executioner is the only good choice for haz 5.
Ecr would be very unique/fun oc if it could reliably lock that 3 bullets at hordes
Honestly, GE says he has a hard time with it but it's really not that difficult. Obviously he says it's annoying for him to do the little mini game and that's fair enough, but if you enjoy that playstyle it makes it much easier. You get a better impression of something if you have fun doing it.
For me, I dislike having to wait to get to full locks, even if the locks are fast, even if I only need 8 of them. The smart rifles biggest weakness is extended facing requirements of it's damage delivery. Simply put, you have to look at an enemy for some time before they take damage. This is what makes the Lok-1 feel so awful when things get up in your face, and why pairing it with the breach cutter feels so good. Other guns can kite, turn, shoot, turn, repeat. The warthog excels at this by just instantly deleting most enemies with a single well placed shot, while the stubby manages it using the electrical slow and aoe. Meanwhile, if you want to kite with the Lok-1 and still deal damage, your only option is to back pedal, which is exactly the thing that gets GE killed in the seeker rounds clip. No BC + Lok-1 is a death sentence if more than 3 grunts get into melee with you, you simply cannot move fast enough or deal enough damage to keep the horde off of you.
This problem with the lok-1 feels incredibly exacerbated to me when I must achieve full locks, as it prolongs the amount of time that my mobility gets limited. ECR on the other hand drastically shortens the amount of time your mobility is limited since you only need 3 quick locks. That helps it substantially with kiting, especially since for weak enemies the explosion wipes them out, and for larger targets the electricity slows them down. Sure, oppressors are an issue, and bulks kind of suck too (although electric is op vs bulks), but that's what your friendly neighborhood embedded dets scout is for.
Anyway, the moral of the story is that if you're like me and hate having to get full locks, the ECR build is great and a lot more fun. Here's hoping the new Shard Diffractor is a single target beast that complements ECR more than hyper propellent.
@@Bravadorado Nice point of view man. Cant disaggre. I hope new weapons will be dope
@@kudumsuz5075 I meant to say in this comment, but forgot to because it was late, you can making getting 3 locks in a crowd much easier by remembering to target the outskirts of said crowd. With the macro lens upgrade, you have a smaller lock on area, but it's not so small that you can aim it in a big group and only lock on to one enemy. What you want to do is aim for the edge of the crowd, using the corners of your targeting square to target one enemy. In other words, most of your targeting area should be completely empty, and just the corner should overlap with an enemy. This change of style will very quickly and easily allow you to take out crowds, starting from the outside and moving in. The radius of the ECR explosion is huge (4m! that's a PGL shot) and even has 50% fear on it. Using that to your advantage, you can very easily "carpet bomb" a swarm by starting at the outside and moving inwards as you identify isolated targets for easy locks.
Another recommendation I'd give is to stop thinking about it as 3 locks, and start thinking about the timing of it. If you focus on the number of locks, you're squinting to see the number, and your attention is pulled away from the enemies and the combat. Instead, focus on the timing. How long does it take to get to 3 locks once I start locking on? Answer that question, and get a feel for it with some practice. When I use ECR, I almost never look at the actual number of locks I have, I simply hold the trigger for what I've learned is the correct amount of time, and then release. In that sense it becomes less of a counting minigame and more like a rhythm game. The beat of the rhythm is the time it takes to get 3 locks, and you press, hold, and release to that beat.
@@Bravadorado Man i didnt know that. That means this gun has 2 perfectly balanced builds. Which is amazing. I can easily take hyper propellant with ECR. I know BC is super powerful weapon but for me, its the most boring weapon oin the game. In the other hand HP is so satisfying. Thanks for the tips!
@@kudumsuz5075 I totally agree with you about BC actually. It feels so cheap to use. One click and you wipe out everything in front of you, it's super braindead. It goes to show that power isn't the deciding factor when it comes to being fun. Hyper propellent is a lot of fun, but at the same time it does feel limited for sure by comparison, especially if you have someone else who can already handle the priority targets. I'm really really hoping the Shard Diffractor combos well with ECR, that would be perfect I feel. And np for the tips, glad I could help!
I'm convinced lol
People in these comments are truly blinded by the power of “having fun”.
Can I ask, how can you see your dmg in game?
It is a mod. "Damage Text".
@@GamingExistence Thanks!
Lok is trash no matter how you build it. Can't sustain ammo for anything and the TTK is meh enough that it doesn't make up for that. I have no real reason to use anything other than the warthog unless they just straight up double the amount of ammo in reserve for the Lok. The explosion from ECR is only good on paper if you can get a bunch of bugs on top of one another while simultaneously not wasting extra bullets getting random 1 or 2 locks on the surround enemy you are trying to blow up. Too much work for not enough pay-off.