God's Alternative Medicine | Christian Science
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- You've seen their influence everywhere, you just didn't know it. Christian Science has affected everything in the United States from criminal law to healthcare. How did this Temperance religion gain so much influence?
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Voiceover Work Provided by:
Melissa Ex and Beau
voicebooking.com
Atun-Shei Films
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Jesus Christ
/ @thejesuschrist
Piper_Valentine
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Sources
► Books
God's Perfect Child: Living and Dying in the Christian Science Church
Caroline Fraser (1999)
amzn.to/3RzkUFM
Christian Science
Mark Twain (1907)
amzn.to/40gGy5m
From Science & Religion to God: A Narrative of Mary Baker Eddy's "Science and Health"
Cheryl Petersen (2021)
amzn.to/3DqhcrT
Mary Baker Eddy (Radcliffe Biography Series)
Gillian Gill (1999)
amzn.to/3IAkuMd
Retrospection and Introspection
Mary Baker Eddy (1891)
www.google.com/books/edition/...
► Documentaries/Movies/Videos
Mary Baker Eddy: A Heart in Protest (1988)
www.christianscience.com/addi...
Larry King Interview with Virginia Harris (September 30 1999)
• 1999 Larry King Interv...
Gillian Gill on Mary Baker Eddy, BookTV, CSPAN2 (January 26 1999)
www.c-span.org/video/?119502-...
Christian Science Lectures -
The healing perspective of Christian Science - Evan Mehlenbacher, Speaker - • The healing perspectiv...
Curing the incurable - Elise Moore, Speaker - • Curing the incurable -...
Discover your relationship with God: 3 simple questions - Stormy Becker Falso, Speaker - • Discover your relation...
Infinite possibilities for healing - Chet Manchester, Speaker - • Infinite possibilities...
Spiritual discovery: How we can better the world - Tom McElroy, Speaker - • Spiritual discovery: H...
Moving past fear to healing - Lisa Troseth, Speaker - • Video
Healing Testimonies -
• Healings through prayer
Children's Videos -
sentinel.christianscience.com...
www.christianscience.com/yout...
www.christianscience4neworlea...
► Audio
Sunday Service of the Mother Church
www.christianscience.com/publ...
Wednesday Testimony Meetings of the Mother Church
www.christianscience.com/publ...
► Websites and Other Reading
docs.google.com/document/d/1p...
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► Video and Proto Credits
docs.google.com/document/d/1p...
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Production Assistant/Community Manager - Rozarah
/ amandallara
Research Assistant/Moderator - Jesspsettle
/ jesspsettle
Research Assistant - Tomatochemist
/ iseewithlasers
Tech Consultant - The Inked Well
/ @theinkedwell
Artist/Animator/Moderator - Donnythenuts
/ @donnythenerdfighter
Artist/Moderator - Sambeawesome
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Music - Chris Heine
cheinemusic@gmail.com
Channel Art - PoetheWonderCat
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Hashtags: #christianscience #religion #history #faithhealing #alternativemedicine #christianscientist #christianscientists
Chapters
0:00 Cold Open
1:56 Introduction
4:58 Challenge Discussion
8:20 Mary's Early Years
14:08 The Fall in Lynn
18:57 Mary's Hypochondria
22:02 Quimby and Mesmerism
27:05 Aftermath of the Fall
32:04 Interrogating Sources
42:50 Vlog
46:23 Science and Health
55:07 Christ and Medicine
1:01:33 Men and Lawsuits
1:06:59 Founding the Church
1:15:24 The Mother Church
1:21:58 Healing Testimonies
1:30:33 Exceptions
1:34:45 Attacks and Criticisms
1:41:49 Mary's Final Years
1:47:05 Celebrities
1:49:52 Changing the Law
1:59:46 The Child Cases
2:11:02 Decline of Christian Science
2:21:23 Conclusion
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It warms my heart to see Safety Razors making a comeback.
I can't believe how many of the stubbly youtubers are pushing these at the moment. It's not a bad thing in itself, but back when I was an occasional shaver, there were disposable (black) Bic razors with a metal guard and only one blade that worked perfectly no matter how long the hair. They out-performed "safety razors" and other disposable razors not in the blade support (which is the usp in your script, matching other scripts I've seen read), but actually it's the skin guard that counts (in my experience)- plastic disposables have struts under the blades, whick snag hairs and get blocked pretty fast (many safety razors have similar obstructions) the black bics had a smooth stiff wire with no supports within the blade length, so kept the skin at the right distance and angle for efficient cutting of hair without pulling skin in for cutting, and the hair that had been cut didn't get in the ways of that dynamic either (yhis might be the case with the ones you're pushing too, but the main focus seems to be on "aerospace" and gap above the blade in your presentation (nice graphics btw👍) rather than "hairospace", and gap below the blade😉
Wow the parallels between some of Christian Science also sound very very Gnostic. Its a new dualist philosophy. Interesting
Amazing video. I can't financially justify a Patreon right now but I'll definitely subscribe once I can
I really hope you make an April Fool's baking video on your Alt channel: Knowing Batter!
US Army veteran growing into a scholar of religion is so the best TH-camr character arc
We need an arc where his father is eaten and he needs to avenge him
He needs to keep studying corporate evil so he can complete his training to become a radical communist.
@@nerdwisdomyo9563 Alright, I guess I'll eat somebody.
If I gotta take one for the team so be it.
...so where do I eat?!
@@jaymevosburgh3660 it’s all coming together
@@nerdwisdomyo9563 or an arc where he eats his father and takes revenge against the world..
My dad was born and raised by devout Christian Scientist parents. Once he moved away from home his 'act of rebellion' was FULLY embracing all doctors and medicine, which lengthened his life since he had cancer 3 times before dying.
WOW! that's so cool!
That is some persistent cancer ♋🦀. Good thing he had modern medicine.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana It was actually three different kinds too. First Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, then Melanoma, then Pancreas cancer. But he survived almost 5 years with pancreas cancer (longer than any pancreas cancer patients his oncologist ever had) all because one brand of chemo worked really well on just 'stopping' the spread though not actively killing the cancer. But eventually the chemo was damaging his heart because it wasn't ever supposed to be used for more than a couple years. Most pancreas cancer patients didn't live long enough to be in his situation with it. But yeah I'm so glad modern science allowed me to have at least 23 more years with my dad that I wouldn't have had if the Non-Hodgkins (or Christian Science) had gotten him in the first round.
What an amazing man.
Surviving cancer once is beyond impressive. Your dad must’ve been an absolute chad
Christian Science + Crohn’s Disease nearly killed me when I was 16. I was dying on my parents’ couch for months, was taken to a Christian Science nursing facility called Broadview (f**king horrific there). When they realized I was 24 hours from death because of the black mold growing in my open wounds, I was luckily taken to an actual ER. I was so afraid to be taken there. I was in the hospital for a month, my hair fell out from starvation, I am still covered in scars from this time in my life. I had to relearn to walk when I left I had lost so much muscle. I just started EMDR to try to help my PTSD. I have endless horrific stories about my family and other’s … one includes a friend’s grandmother losing her arm from gangrene, hiding it under the bed, and wearing a shawl to hide the wound. I am so appreciative that you made this video to get the word out. I’m yearning for healing from what this church did to my family and me - and learning so many details here I didn’t know is incredible and helpful and thank you thank you thank you ❤❤❤
wow! that is nuts Sara
There is a LOT of social pressure. ONe thing the video didn't talk about is that most Christian Scientists--all their social contacts are too. So leaving is definitely hard and scary. You have tons of courage. And thanks for sharing your story.
I'm speechless. I wish you and yours well.
That story about the gangrenous arm is as horrific as yours, if not more! I have difficulty believing it could possibly occur, despite believing you entirely.
that's horrifying, holy shit. I'm so sorry and I wish you the best possible future you could have.
When insulin was discovered in 1922, the life expectancy of a diabetic went from 12 months from diagnosis to 12 years from diagnosis. That was 15 years before Ashley died in 1937. Insulin wasn't that new and it was proven effective. I'm horrified.
Edit: With the last story, as soon as you mentioned the fruity breath, I knew it was diabetes. God. When I was diagnosed I had fruity breath, and I had already been sick for weeks. But not with a stomach ache. When I was disgarged from the hospital, my blood sugar was still high, and I was told that if I had a stomach ache, I should return to the hospital *immediately*.
You have no idea how many people were killed in the development of insulin. Everything is experimental and the people who took the insulin prototypes were morbidly obese and volunteered for it. The people who were just a little chubby didn't take it because they didn't need it. Modern science is all about accepting what the majority of scientists say and you're not allowed to question it.
How many people die in the development of insulin ? And those who take insulin have diabetes so i dont get why "people who were little chubby didn't take it because they didn't it" regardless of how 'fat' they are if they are diabetic they need it.
My experience was very different.
I had an insane unquenchable thirst. I finally went in when I drank 48 bottles of water in 24 hours. I peed every 15 minutes and could NOT sleep because I had to pee so bad. And my thirst was so unquenchable. I finally googled unquenchable thirst and non stop pee and seen it was a symptom of keto acidosis. My blood sugar was at 700. My A1C was 15.1.
My last A1C test I was at 5.1.
But I still feel depressed occasionally. Diabetes is huge. I know they say you can reverse it. But I know it can't be cured. I am taking it well now. But occasionally I get depressed. The bland foods. The daily non stop water. It makes me upset some days. But thanks to my love of flavor I paid the price. Over indulged!
@@neko-cat1954 you might want to rethink that question. You were sure to die before insulin. As it was being developed, you had a hope of living longer. Once developed and tested, it added decades to the lives of diabetics.
@@jasongoodburn-moffitt8396 edit:spelling
ahh i think you might be confuse. I am questioning the replies that present the 'development' of insulin in negative life by saying it has cause a lot of death and i want to know if this is true because i cant find the source . Not before the development. And the reply that i was asking the questioning to, has been deleted .
Over the course of this channel's existence you've gone from 10-20 minute videos to a longer than a full feature length film lol. Good work
Higher quality and more enjoyable than many feature length documentaries aswell!
I.... I never miss a video. Love this channel. There have been instances where I've watched his long videos at least 5 times, each.
Very educational content
@Jacob what's with the goofy ass ellipses bro
@@doodleBurgers idk wym
I have a friend who nearly died as a kid. C of C Science parents, thought he was trying to get out of chores, and he was just getting weaker and weaker. He'd been feeling awful for close to a year I think. I don't remember where his teacher came from since he was homeschooled, maybe it was a tutor or a teacher for a small group class, something? anyway he had a teacher who told him he could call her if he needed anything. I'm guessing she didn't mean this...
He dragged himself up the road to the gas station, called the paramedics, and gave them her name so his parents wouldn't be called and he could get well. He said he thought it would just be like an overnight thing, they'd give him some magic medicine and he could go home like he'd run away, and he would only get in trouble for being gone. In the ER they discovered he had leukemia, quite advanced. He says they were pretty frank that his survival likelihood was quite low even with treatment.
He pretty much had to fight with the state of Arkansas on his own to get away from his parents and get the treatment he needed to live. His teacher helped as much as she could, but couldn't do much more than be supportive, visit, etc, which is much more than his parents did. I know she was a part of him getting free of them, and since he was returned to them he needed a lot of support. They made it very clear that if he pursued any treatment other than faith, he was excommunicated and no longer their son regardless of what the courts said (which I imagine was a big part of why he won out eventually). He was too young to be an emancipated minor (like 9, 10) so he wound up in a group home initially rather than foster care. His parents stuck by what they said, the last time he saw them was in court. He did eventually wind up in a great foster home with people whom he refers to as his parents, so he did find people who cared for and still love him like children should be cared for and loved. And obviously I met him as an adult, so he survived, and he will NEVER say "thank God!" about it because "that motherfucker was just fine with letting me die."
Wow! He was his own hero.
@@StevenBanks123 I know! It's always struck me as such an awfully tragic story, that's obviously why it's stuck with me for so long. And that young! I was dealing with some rough things I shouldn't have had to contend with at that age too, but I *CERTAINLY* wasn't fighting in court to *make* the state take me *away* from my family so that I wouldn't *die* of the cancer my parents were refusing to treat because of the religion I'd spent my *entire* *brief* *life* cocooned within. What an awful thing to have to do at that age, leave practically everyone and everything you've ever known because you want to live. Some people *would* rather die than that.
I've always thought it seemed like the state put him in a group home kind of out of spite, too, like "You want to be in The System? Welcome to The System! Hope you're still happy with being alive by the time they're through with you, if you even do survive!"
@Jackamomo
None of that is Christian Science. Christian Science is about love. Suffering is not love.
@@amazingjane2703 Dude...I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you this (apparently), but...there has been rather a LOT of suffering inspired by, justified by, and/or perpetrated in the name of EVERY denomination of Christianity. You're really in for quite a surprise when you hear about some of the stuff the Catholics have been up to for, like, forever.
And these parents seem to have thought that a little bit of human suffering was what was necessary for their sick-as-hell kid to go to Heaven. And he was on board with his faith and his church and family and life there in until he was actively dying. He said one of the hardest parts of all of it was having his family and the denomination of the church he was raised in turn against him and very clearly explain exactly why he would be going to hell for not trusting that God was doing the right thing. So, your message I think might be better addressed to some douchey religious nuts in Northwest Arkansas. But I think if they're willing to watch a child slowly die in pain, they don't much care what you think their religious beliefs SHOULD be.
It's so hilarious that your doctor and Discord both agreed to be in on the Christian Science Challenge
His doctor was like "aha! Zah perrfekt peishunt four my uber experiment!!" Lol
@@drakep.5857
Where the fawk is that doctor from?
Auster-manry-eatherland-gium
Doctor knew he was a cafine addict, probably the only way to prove it.
as soon as you mentioned fruity breath my heart dropped. i wasn’t diagnosed with diabetes until i was 10 because no one took my pain seriously, and the months leading up to my hospitalization were pure agony. the doctors said i was very lucky to have survived as long as i did untreated. My heart breaks for Ian because i understand not only the fear but also the pain :(
My grandpa had a boss who was a Christian Scientist when my mom was young. According to my mom, the boss’s wife had breast cancer which she couldn’t get treatment for, and while she was dying of cancer, he was having an affair with a subordinate. My grandpa quit with no other job lined up because it made him so sick working for someone like that
Your grandpa was definitely a good guy. Hopefully he found another job quickly.
huge respect to your grandpa
Bet the boss prayed hard enough to correct the problem of cheating. Maybe even told the other "Christian Scientists" about it, too.
Not to be that guy, but I have abused alcohol, don't know if I have smoked weed. I have done a couple of substances. My benzo addiction had the worst with drawls that I have ever dealt with. I know you're talking about cancer, and I'm an addict. If hellish drugs like benzos are allowed, and are acceptable long term treatment. I don't blame anyone for choosing scam over science backed up even though academia is a joke these days. I take care of my health so I don't have to take medication in the future.
@@Skoopyghost all doctors recommend practicing a healthy lifestyle. There are of course problems with the industry though.
I grew up down the street from a church of christian science, I never thought twice about it!
In high school i lived right behind a Christian Science retirement community
Heya Atlas Pro! Big fan, keep doing what you're doing!
That's a healing!
This channel has been blessed.
@@seanbeadles7421that’s a nice way of saying a Christian scientist grave yard
When I was a kid, I loved going to Mardel’s (Christian Bookstore) so I associated that description with a good thing
While walking down a street with my mom, I saw a store front that said “Christian Science” and asked to go look
My mom kneeled down, looked me straight in the eyes, and said that’s not a real thing, it’s not Christian or science and not to look into it.
Tbh, I never looked into it but this has unlocked that trapped memory
Lol sounds like a nice woman
Your mom is a smart woman
based anti-cult mother
Your mom sounds pretty based. Wish my mom had shown that fortitude with her parents and having to deal with their CS nonsense.
Your mom taught you a very valuable and correct lesson that day.
Metallica’s song “The God That Failed” is based on the fact that singer James Hetfield’s mother held onto her beliefs up until her excruciating pain from cancer.
He says that in the video
I always crack when someone says "I feel like Anne Frank in Nazi Germany"
that is NEVER done by someone who isn't completely delusional
The people who _actually_ feel like Anne Frank in Nazi Germany are too terrified to speak up about it, in case they're heard. That's a big part of why Anne Frank's experience was distinct from her contemporaries. (Also the fact that her life was documented.)
idunno, the terror and agony was probably up there
Me too, probably for different reasons
@@timothymcleanpeople still say Anne Frank's diary is fake cause there are different kinds of inks. As if she couldn't use multiple pens. People are retarded
One of my childhood friends grew up going to a Christian Science. One of his friends from the church had a very treatable form of cancer, but because of her family's attachment to the church they refused to seek help and she died at the age of 12. He has been scarred by it and disillusioned by all faiths, because of it, and he grew up unvaccinated, but now he's finally building up the courage to get vaccinated.
family guy is such a funny show man
@@PakBallandSami man what the fuck
@@anxofmyown i mean can you blame me family guy is such a great show that it even cured my son's life threatening disease,
@@PakBallandSami family guy is mid at best, king of the hill is _actually_ funny
I had a classmate who was of a similar faith. I'm not entirely sure what, as I'd never heard about "Christian Science" but they refused all medical treatment or prevention. I made him cry one day by calling those type of religious people morons (not knowing his religion). Felt like an asshole everytime I saw him later, until one day he disappeared. Turns out he died of the regular flu. Witholding medicine from one's own children is disgusting.
My parents became Christian Scientists specifically to avoid vaccinating my older sibling and myself. That was when I was in middle school and it was horrible. Even though they don't call themselves that anymore and are more open to going for real medical care, they're still horribly misguided by it's ideology. My blind faith that my parents knew what was best ended when I was sick with (what I assume was) the flu or a bad cold. They also believed in Jim Humble's MMS "cure" which I had already refused to trust.
Instead of taking me to a doctor, they decided to put MMS in my drink with breakfast. I threw up until I was too exhausted to do anything but pass out. When I woke up, my mom gave me soup that she added MMS to that my dad had made... with MMS. I overheard them in the kitchen proudly saying that they had snuck it in to each other before they started arguing about the overdosing but I was already throwing up again. I felt worst the next day but I forced myself to go to school so I wouldn't have to go through that again.
I was able to get fully vaccinated at the end of high school, because pulling the Christian Scientist card didn't work for a program I was accepted into.
My father was a Christian Scientist and I didn't get vaccinated until I was 7 after my mom left him. He was pretty crazy in many ways. I'd also like to say thank you for warning about the abuse cases because I really can't handle that stuff.
I didn't get vaccinated til I was in my 20s. A psychiatrist I was seeing (oh boy long story there), but he was so upset he contacted a pharmacy and prescribed a polio vaccine. He didn't know how to prescribe it, called the pharmacy. It was kind of amazing.
You can’t handle words? Grow up.
@@cococock2418which is why freedom of speech is stupid bc words don't matter and if we wnated to hear them we should just grow up
@@cococock2418cringe
@@jinolin9062What in the world are you struggling to say?
absolutely floored at how "animal magnetism" is basically their way of speaking about a "vibe check". that's so incredible.
lmfao, facts. "crystal mommy, take me back!"
"sry bbs, you failed the vibe check and your LITERALLY suffocating me =cough, cough, pout="
Vibe is a garbage catchall term as well. No excuses for contrmporary pseudo spiritualists
"Animal Magnetism" is the same as _ki/chi/qi/prana._ Thus why it sounds just like The Force. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mesmer read some translations of Chinese or Japanese books when he formulated his ideas.
"Animal electricity", or the effect of electricity on animals (e.g. muscle twitching) was known about not long after the battery was invented, so the idea that there might have also been "animal magnetism" wasn't too farfetched at the time.
@@kaing5074 Just replace the world vibe with mood, or feeling.
Vibe check is someone checking what your current mood, or feeling is.
So "animal magnetism" is not a vibe check.
My mother hated Christian Science, the religion she grew up in. Her father got an infection (I forget what kind) and died because of his faith. She raised us as Jehovah's Witnesses. From one cult to another☹️
Shieeeet. Lighting Strucked twice at the same place
🤔
So she hated christian science because her father died of untreated infection but she had no problem with the refusal of blood transfusions?
Strange isn't it? But it seemed perfectly reasonable to us kids as well because of the clever ways they indoctrinated us. It wasn't until I left I discovered they also believed vaccines were sinful abominations up until the 50's. Or before. I forget. There's a lot of history the Governing Body doesn't want JWs to know. But yeah, we're The Truth, it's the other religions that are crazy!
@@calebr7199 at the very least it's better than refusing basically EVERYTHING aside from broken bones.
I grew up in Christian Science with a professional Practitioner as a mother (and a CS podcaster for a father), and I escaped during college, something that led to my estrangement from my family. I am very grateful to see such a thoughtfully considered account of the faith. Most jarring is the fact that many of the names in the Child Cases section are personally familiar to me - I was friends with the Twitchells (of the Massachusetts case) in my teenage years, attended AU (the camp mentioned in the pandemic section), etc.
A few thoughts to add to the conversation that might be useful to others:
- It's worth noting that the idea presented by this video that CS Practitioners are just 'treating' (big air quotes) other Christian Scientists is false. A large chunk of the practice of many I knew was folks from outside CS, who were perhaps somewhat 'new agey' in their thinking and so receptive to either the philosophy or just the wording and patter of faith healers like my mother. Even though not Church members, these people will sometimes not pursue medical intervention because of the advice of a Practitioner. I feel this is important to mention because it is another way Christian Science negatively impacts those outside the religion itself.
- I also have to say that the list of Journal-listed Practitioners is likely not representative of the total number of Practitioners (though certainly the impression of a downward trend is not mistaken). Growing up it seemed like every other CS adult was a Practitioner part time and would be intermittently listed. They could also be unlisted for reasons of internal politics - my mother had drama with the church and was unlisted for some time, even though she practiced full-time and was well known.
Many people I love and respect very deeply remain Christian Scientists to this day. If any of you are reading this, recognize my name, and ever want to talk, please feel free to reach out to me. You can be assured of an environment to talk about how you are feeling that is free of guilt.
I appreciate your reaching out to those who remain in CS. You are right about "part time" practitioners, as in order to become Journal listed one needed verified testimonials at least some of which were "physical" healings to submit with the application for listing. Some of these part-timers were in the process, back in the day. Then there was my grandmother, who was hospitalized while a practitioner, listed in the Journal, and had to remove her listing and be sort of "on probation" until she had been free of "materia medica" for at least a year before she could get her listing back. Most of the members considered going to the medical people to be an admission of failure on their own part.
I became friends with Rita Swan, well remotely anyway. I heard about CHILD and contacted her. I do'n't judge her as harshly because people need to know this is a cult and it has tons of social pressures. Everyone they know is a Christian Scientist. Her organization no doubt saved a lot of children (if not her own). and the movement, if not organization is still active. And they sue states and so on. She sad thousands of people brought up in Christian Science contacted her over the years. They even had a sort of convention, which I couldn't afford at the time. I know what you are talking about my grandmother was a Practitioner and dad and mom were both "class instructed". I went to Principa College. I did have a period of disassociation with my parents. We did get closer eventually.
Oh hey, I do recognize your name, as someone who also grew up in CS. Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s a weird thing being out of the religion that was such a huge part of my upbringing, even through college. I still sometimes feel like I have to pretend I’m CS, which is also weird.
@@Ehreads I'm gathering you are referring to Andrew, but it's a small world. CS tend to associate only with other CS, ime, anyway. It's unusual for them to have many friends who aren't. Oh gee, tough thing to deconstruct I think. OTOH, I think people started leaving when I was a kid (I'm 75). It took me a long time to deconstruct and I had no help from anybody. I looked for some kind of group online but the only thing I found was a right wing Christian group. Wasn't leaving one cult for another.
@@515aleon Yes, definitely a small world. I’m fortunate to have friends outside of the religion, and actually finding them has helped a lot. Many of my other friends are former CS, so at least we understand each other. But I have a lot of family and professional connections who are still in the religion, and it’s hard. I’m lucky my parents have supported my desire to seek medical care, but even that was a rocky experience (plus I didn’t even know how to go about seeing a doctor until I was 25). I wish there were support groups for us out there…
When I was a child I was very curious about the Christian Science church in my town. I thought it'd be a neat place with pictures of Jesus looking through a microscope. My father, a biology teacher, said, "It's not THAT kind of science." He was right. Years later I actually got to go inside and was quite disappointed. Not a test tube or microscope in sight.
I grew up a Christian Scientist. Growing up in a cult is wild in retrospect. You're entirely correct, especially on how boring church services are. My church in California was... maybe less radical, save for a few members. My sister and I were vaccinated and treated... mostly. My childhood best-friend's dad died of cancer. Our Sunday School teacher's wife had a miscarriage. I had a cyst at the base of my spine go untreated for two years. I walked with a limp and was in constant pain. It took major surgery at age 14 and months of painful recovery. The breaking point, when I was 15, was another Sunday School teacher saying "they think man is made of dust; they don't even know what causes the common cold". I shouted "the rhinovirus" and stormed out. A different teacher came to console me and we talked about my friend's dad. He confided my friend's dad turned to medicine just before he died, and implied that was why he died. Growing up in a cult is wild.
That’s fucked beyond belief
I don't know about a cult, but they certainly are a quirky bunch of very devout people. That said, maybe the circles you were around were different than mine. My family was in the Church since MBE's time, and when I said, "not for me," they didn't shun or reject me. I mean my father and grandfather were practitioners, and everything.
@@couldntgetagoodname They're all perfectly nice people, but being nice doesn't make up for causing harm. Failing to act makes them responsible. Just because they're not isolationist doesn't mean they're not a cult.
@@RobertN734 the isolation doesn’t make a cult either, it’s the veneration of an individual or object. It’s like what KB had mentioned in this and other video, it’s the second in command. If your religion or movement dies with you, then you have yourself a cult (think Jim Jones). Plenty of non-cults have plenty of things objectionable and dangerous. One of my general turn offs with a wide variety of Christian sects is the whole “spare the rod, spoil the child” line
@@couldntgetagoodnametechnically any small religion with views out of step with the surrounding culture and established religions can be described as a cult. Another term is New Religious Movement, which seeks to destigmatize younger religions and remove the implication that they are by nature harmful.
I didn't get an education, medical help, was beaten, under fed, and generally neglected. Nothing happened when CPS was called. I remember the worker telling me the situation was complicated because we were religious when I asked her to help my siblings and I somehow.
You shouldn't be able to get away with abuse to minors for your religious reasons...
Side note: I got my GED then college, my own family.. it was very hard but my life is good now besides the struggle with nightmares and random scary flashbacks. I've been having issues finding help that my insurance covers because I cant afford it out of pocket.
How are your siblings doing now?
I'm sorry you went through all that. Unfortunately, many christian sects will fight tooth and nail in the legal system for the "inherent right" to beat, manipulate or otherwise abuse their kids. Any form of christianity in the US gets a pass that other religions aren't privy to. (this isn't meant to be a jab at christians in general but it's a fact that if this were 'islamic science' or 'krishna science' it would've been treated completely different from the beginning)
@@calamityjean1525 We all have our own families so pretty good. :) I've kind of figured life out.
My parents left the church and got divorced so I forgave them for myself a decade after. I see them a few times a year now. I actually got an apology from my dad
@@lostpelican1883 Oh yeah. Christianity always gets a pass. 'Freedom of religion' or 'religious liberty' in the US is all just code for Christian privilege and Christian right to oppress others.
Sounds like today's republicans and yesterday's democrats pre civil rights.
my grandfather was raised in a christian science household, he was 1 of 18 children (some died in early childhood, 13 lived to adulthood) and both he and his favorite cousin got an appendicitis, the family prayed over the two of them but she died. my grandfather was the second to last kid born and his younger brother was born premature, since they couldn't take him to the hospital the sisters of the family put him in the oven as an incubator and saved his life. as my grandfather grew up he loved going to drug stores and buying random first aid supplies to have around the house, multiple of his brothers and sisters went on to be doctors, nurses, or dentists.
wow, what horrible circumstances and clever thinking
So the oven thing actually has worked IRL? I always thought that was a meme.
My favorite thing about what you do is how you contextualize religions and cultural movements within America's history as it developed. There's were some pretty major forces in the past that shaped our present that we really don't appreciate. I'd love to see you do a video on the Third Great Awakening.
The third great awakening is so large in scope it was kind of already covered in KBs previous videos on the JWs as well as LDS church/Mormons. But maybe a summary/big picture overview would be a nice additional short video
I’m honestly cackling at the fact that she gave a placebo to a patient she was treating homeopathically like no queen you were just conducting business as usual LMAO
Maybe most people haven't heard of these people, but I sure have. My grandma's stepmother was one, and told her when she had a miscarriage that it was her fault for having sinful thoughts. We've held the grudge beyond my grandma's lifespan.
That's vile behavior. There's a large church of Christ scientist right by my house and I've grown up around them. Stuffy, miserable group.
That’s just cruel.
I’m one of those people that doesn’t mind gore or hearing about biological horror, but the fact these parents were so deluded into believing nothing was wrong and the fact so many of them got treatment for themselves makes me physically upset
I was raised in Christian Science from an “egg”. :) My father was not a member. If any illness did not show improvement, he demanded we be taken to a doctor. Thank goodness! I can’t imagine having 2 CS parents.
One of the most damaging aspects of this cult is the emotional abuse that is experienced. Not only is sickness “unreal” , but also bad feelings. So if I was feeling scared or homesick or any other “bad” emotion I was told to “know the truth” because none of what I was feeling was real. If that doesn’t do a number on a person’s emotional development I don’t know what will. I finally was able to leave Christian Science at about age 41 after my mother passed away. I am so angry at Mary Baker Eddy for all of the bullsh*t she pushed. I still consider myself spiritual but my prayers are so tainted with all the crazy quotes I was indoctrinated with I hate it! When you quoted the Scientific Statement of Being my brain went into auto mode. During my childhood I was sent to Christian Science overnight camp, boarding school and Sunday School up to the age of 18. Talk about indoctrination! I attended the Daycroft School where the polio outbreak took place. I actually met one of the students who became partially paralyzed. During my stay, I caught pink eye. Needless to say prayer did nothing. It became so bad I had to go home. When my dad took me to the doctor he said in all his years he had never seen such a bad case. He applied a thick ointment. The next day my eyes were so much better I thought a miracle had occurred. The first time I took Advil for a headache, I just about cried with relief. I had never in all the years I was a practicing member experienced a single healing of any physical problem. I was told I wasn’t doing it correctly. That is messed up!! Thank you for all your research and hard work!!
yes, that is a good point about the emotional abuse from any 'bad' emotion (or event) being dismissed as unreal, especially bad for child cognitive development. both of my parents were CS and ironically all I can think is "There but for the grace of God go I" when I hear about these child death cases. I didn't have any major illnesses or accidents as a kid luckily, but if I did, would I have had the same fate? My parents surely never thought to take me to a doctor or give me otc medicine. Some of my family members went to daycroft too. from what one of them said, it seems sexual abuse (between students) was also a problem, as it was at Principia where I attended (there's been 1 criminal case and a few civil suits but those just scratch the surface).
I thought I could handle the child abuse stories but Robyn Twitchell's case absolutely shook me to my core
Yeah that’s really fair
Honestly I should probably be more shaken up then I am, my heart goes out to people who die in truly awful ways
Same, honestly.
The fact that his parents conviction was overturned is sickening, As well as the cases that went unprosecuted. Wild to think that the people who participate in this kind of abuse are around us.
“I know I’m a good mother and no judge or jury can convince me otherwise…”
@@paintdrinker455 I don't read much into that, nor dwell on it either. There's always messed up people who can forgive themselves of everything bad they do and never find any fault in themselves. They're called narcissists, and trying to get them to reflect on the failures of their own actions is pointless. If they are a threat to others, or their own children, then it's up to society and the law to judge them and intervene if necessary, regardless of whether they feel remorseful, guilty, or even consider themselves at-fault for the horrendous abuse and neglect.
"...divine source changed it's mind 49 times..."
I love this
Like 400 times by the end of her life lol
The same way the climate alarmists change their mind several times too. Global cooling in the 1960s, global warming later, and because they can't get anything right, now it's just climate change where if the temperature rises 10 degrees as the season changes from winter to summer, it's proof of incoming catastrophe.
Not unlike the God of the Christian Bible 😂😂
I went through a Metallica phase as a teenager, and it really opened my eyes, hearing about the origins of 'The God That Failed'. As a teenager, I assumed it was the usual heavy metal edgelord-ism, and not much more than that. (I've always liked the way the music sounds, but a lot of the stuff that comes with it is hard to take seriously. Even as a teenager, I rolled my eyes at a lot of it.) But you can HEAR the distain and the rage in that song, and knowing now where those feelings come from, I'm going to go back and re-listen to it.
Looking through some of the Wikipedia articles mentioned, it seems like there's been a lot of edit activity this past month, mostly correcting the mistakes you mentioned. Thanks for this public service.
Christian Science should just rename themselves as the “Church of Thoughts and Prayers.” Learning about those children’s deaths made me visibly upset. Thank you so much for making a video about this, I learned so much!
It’s literally the church of thoughts and prayers! I laughed so loud. You have no idea how true this was being in the organization and not understanding any of it at all 😅
No truer words have been spoken. I really wish it could be renamed this. The word Science is so misleading and ironic.
This makes so much of my early childhood make sense. Growing up, I had a next-door neighbor who was an older woman who would babysit me pretty often and I really liked spending time with her, but when I was around five I realized I hadn't been to her house in a while. My parents explained that she was sick, and an bacterial infection had almost completely spread through her heart. I didn't understand what this meant, and I figured she would go to the hospital and come back after a few months. She never came back.
I found out later when we were invited to the funeral that the infection started as something pretty mild that she refused antibacterial meds for. It got worse and worse until the infection got to her heart, and she once again refused medication on religious grounds. She said that she would trust in God's plan for her, whether that meant living or dying. I found out many years later that my parents wouldn't let me see her in the hospital because when she wasn't verbally abusing staff, she was thrashing around and crying out in pain.
None of my grandparents lived close by, so she was Grandma to me when I was little. She died in her mid-fifties from an entirely avoidable illness.
Update: I texted my mother about this, and she mentioned that our neighbor spent most of her treatment in a nursing home. She only spent her last few days in a nearby hospital. The infection had broken off pieces of her heart that were now circulating in her bloodstream, and her son was able to insist on giving her pain management because she was no longer conscious enough to make medical decisions.
@@lindenshepherd6085 that’s awful
I'm sorry you had to lose someone important to you like that :(
@@aazhie I still miss her and I wish my parents or one of her friends had pushed her to get treatment, but I'm glad that her children didn't follow in her beliefs and I hope she had some peace in her last hours.
She was the first person to teach me about yarn crafting, which has become my special interest and is a huge part of my life, so I'll always be grateful that I got to spend my formative years with her. She was also careful not to push her beliefs on to me, something that not all of my caretakers did when they learned my family wasn't Christian.
Sad. :(
As a Christian, I had no idea such a sect existed. I've even passed by a Christian Science church in my downtown area without even really understanding what it was.
Thank you so much for making this video!
Me to
The best way to think of it isn’t as a sect but as a cult that merely claims legitimacy from a distant association with a belief they have little real relation to. CS isn’t recognized by any legitimate Christian denominations, even the bad ones.
This was really good. My grandmother was a Christian Scientist. Mind blowing. Luckily her children were not.
When push comes to shove they usually go to the ER.
I cannot tell you how happy this makes me as an ex-christian scientist. I was born into the religion, though my Dad was agnostic. My Mom had to face tons of abuse from christian science as a kid. I wasn’t given any vaccinations until I was 12, when we left the cult and searched for our own beliefs.
More videos, documentaries, books, and sources on this topic need to exist. Christian Science has a mountain of dirty laundry hidden in the closet that people need to know about, because they DO put lives at risk, both non-CS lives and lives of CS children. The fact that they have exemptions from law exclusively for them is batshit insane.
Side note, if you (anyone reading this) haven’t already, please read Father Mother God by Lucia Greenhouse. It’s about the author’s life as a Christian Scientist and her eventual escape from the religion, detailing all kinds of shit she lived through. Stuff about how as a teenager, she was already used to other kids mentioning CS as “well I had an aunt/neighbor/whoever who was a christian scientist that died of [insert preventable disease here].” Also her story about coming out to her Dad for needing glasses. Remember, mortal senses are not real, and trying to treat them with something like glasses gives the devil power. It is wild the shit christian scientists go through.
I know this comment is long winded, but I mean this 1000 times over: thank you for making this video. I genuinely cannot express this enough. Thank you for researching it so thoroughly to not miss a single important detail about it.
That is so Fd up. Thank you for sharing
I've worn glasses for 26 years. I can't fathom not being able to have them.
❤
Same sentiment here
I an ex-CS too. Fathermothergod is an incredible book that brutally conveys the guilt, shame, and suffering inflicted by these beliefs. I wish my friends and family that are still attached to CS (directly or indirectly from being raised in it) would wake up to how full of shit it is.
Now THIS is something that effected me growing up. Parents would barely take us to the doctor unless required by school or sports. Its still hard for me to just go to the doctor. Like i just forget thats an option i have. But i know alot of people have had it worse.
My grandfather grew up in this church. He became a staunch atheist for most of his life, and yet he was *still* somewhat avoidant of getting professional medical care, until his cancer made it too apparent of a need.
Your parents probably did you a favor.
Woah
If you are American your parents medical avoidance could also be because of the cost.
@Praisethesunson Well we all know that. But no one in this comment was taking about health care costs.
"This will be a recurring theme" I love this every time
My father once worked for a Christian science publication. He wasn't part of the religion but it gave him a skewed view. This gave me a more accepting view than I otherwise might have but also made it feel like I had nothing to learn about it. Thank you for proving me wrong. I'm from Boston and learning the history this group has in my state is bizarre. It just feels so weirdly local.
While my family has never been Christain Scientists, most of them are devout christains. My oldest sister has two children now and refuses to vaccinate them and is very into "homeopathic remedies". Even if christain science as a religion itself is on a decline, your outro was spot on about the remaining influence of christain science on culture and policy. She openly talked to me about using these religious exemptions to avoid having her children vaccinated.
There's a certain branch of Christianity that seems to be more prone to falling for those kinds of alternative medicines, as well as MLMs and other scams. I'm not totally sure what you'd call them, if it's Evangelical, or Pentecostal, I'm not sure, but I know some like that. I kind of see it a couple of different ways.
One is people being told how to think and what should and should not be questioned, that things were better before, and that older is somehow better (I was raised in a Christian environment that welcomed even the hardest of questions, and that's one of the only reasons I stayed). The other is that most people have a major tendency towards confirmation bias.
Anyone who's taken high school or first year university science credits will know that the goal of a scientific study should be framed as trying to prove yourself wrong or discover something new, not prove yourself right. People look for connections all the time, and without thousands of people to study all those individual things, it's easy to jump to conclusions based on personal belief or even fairytales you've been told. I know that's a big issue with relationships, kids being told these ideals and fantasy love stories, and even misleading ideas that lead a lot of girls especially to put up with a lot of things they shouldn't when trying to figure out what a relationship is. I like seeking out other perspectives and looking at what different people say about certain things, as long as it has some sort of solid background.
My mom grew up in the age of tuberculosis and pre-smallpox eradication. She made my siblings and I were vaccinated for everything. I feel sorry for her kids. There are many diseases that they can come down with that cause unnecessary suffering and put others at risk. Hopefully those kids can come to terms with her irrational and reckless beliefs and leave her toxicity behind when they become adults.
That fact that some Christians just don't believe in medicine makes me sad Ive never heard anything referring to not doing that so I don understand why some people do
I am a vaccine injured adult. There are so many vaccine injured children and adults. I know of many.
My step-grandma is a Christian Science member, and her behavior towards my grandpa while he was dying makes so much sense now. My grandpa was crying in pain and she was just so flippant about the whole thing, so much so that my mom thought she had poisoned him to cape his death.
Thanks for your work. I was raised in CS, and I can confirm that you are incredibly accurate. I was a junior at Principia Upper School, a boarding school, in 1985, when the measles outbreak occurred at the College. They made all of us go to our rooms for a special prayer session to “keep the right thought.” At Principia, there was a teacher who had an untreated cancer ON HIS FACE for the whole school year of 86-87. (I see there are former “Scientists” and Principia students here. Anyone remember Mr. Day??) He died soon after that. Back home in California I watched a devout old lady go blind of cataracts. And so many other similar stories I could tell. It was chilling to hear all about this cult, the nonsense word salad that my mom thought should be like the at we breathe. Thanks for your masterful work! I’m going to check out your other videos.
I'd honestly love to see a "knowing betters lore explained" video!
OMG. This gives me chills. I had a colleague many years ago that was a Christian Scientist and I naively assumed "oh neat! A religious person that believes in evolution!" (Back then there were widely spread and active debates about whether teachers could teach things that were "anti-Christian" ie, dinosaurs, age of Earth, etc).
We worked over night at a hotel. We chatted often as things were usually slow. He had a sleep disorder (hence the over night job) and said he had problems taking medication. Sometimes it would get really severe and he would not sleep for up to 5 DAYS. We were young, late teens/early 20s. To think that this sweet soul's entire life was destroyed (unable to go to college or have a regular job and tortured by his sleep disorder) and his parents encouraged not taking medicine (he lived at home)... it just hurts. Something like that is so treatable. 😢
Not only that, but going without sleep that long can make a person start to hallucinate or experience significant mental health events. That is so awful, poor guy.
Sleep problems make _everything worse._ I have a ridiculously hard time getting to sleep; my mind won't stop and goes into overdrive. Lots of cool ideas, but no sleep. And when you get no sleep, you are a zombie; in pain, can't focus, can't think straight, really just can't enjoy anything. Sometimes I go 3 to 4 days without sleeping until I crash out for 24 or more hours. I feel for the guy.
@@tomatochemist It's worse than that. There are extremely rare conditions of constant insomnia that are fatal. Look up Familial Fatal Insomnia if you want a good freak out.
@John McFadin I taught at an Australian Christian school until about three years ago. To be employed there, you have to sign a Statement of Faith declaring your belief in Young Earth Creationism (i.e. the universe was created in a literal six day span). I did believe that when I started working there, although definitely not by the time I left. They still use Ken Ham's material to teach apologetics.
My ex husband had relatives down in Greenville SC. I remember seeing a Christian Science reading room while we were downtown.
My ex was pretty knowledgeable about different sects of Christianity. When I asked him what it was, he just said "I don't even know how to begin to explain that."
And now I get it.
you wanna know whats ironic? this video is sponsored by henson shaving. while a completely separate henson family, jim henson (you know, the guy who created the freakin' muppets!) was raised as a christian scientist! he didn't really follow it into his adult life, but it's an interesting/random tidbit about his life.
I know his mom was a Christian Scientist, but I don't know how deep the family was into the whole thing. His first advertising job was for Wilkins Coffee, and his first Muppet (Pierre the French Rat) smoked a cigarette. Also, he seems to have had a generally positive view of Christian Science into his adult life, which could also indicate that their family practiced a more chill version of it.
Some people think that Christian Science contributed to his death. He died of a bacterial infection, and if he had gone to the hospital earlier, he might have survived. However, most of his biographers and family members don't think his upbringing had anything to do with it. Not only were his children vaccinated, but Sesame Street characters have been getting flu shots since the beginning.
Another fun fact: Once, during the early years of Sesame Street, Henson took acid, and saw no effect from it. Someone (I think it was Frank Oz?) said that it couldn't have worked, because Jim's mind was already as weird and creative as it was going to get.
@@radiobob1908 i happened to have my copy of brian jay jones's jim henson biography nearby, so i double checked it, and you're right! his mom's family followed a more moderate form and it says that "more serious injuries were almost always attended to by physicians". from what i read, it seemed like he was never heavily involved in christian science in his adult life, nor were jane henson and the henson kids, but he had a few personal convictions that he held onto from it. in general, he seemed not to adhere specifically to one religion and just followed his own set of spiritual beliefs.
i remember the lsd story! i can't find the quote either but i'm pretty sure you're right about it being frank oz that said it. another fun and semi-related story is that jerry nelson and richard hunt, two other muppet performers, would often share a joint before and in-between filming for the muppet show.
when it comes to his death, i tend to believe it was a combination of factors that led to him not seeking medical attention earlier. stress, business, and probably a feeling of "i can just tough it out", but i don't know if i think the beliefs he held onto from christian science played a huge role. either way, i just thought it was an interesting coincidence from KB (even though henson is a pretty common last name.)
p.s.: i love talking about jim henson and the muppets, so this little comment interaction made my day :)
Didn't he die from untreated pneumonia, though?
I used to babysit for a family that had 3 children and were members of a Christian Science Church. The two year old was terribly sick and running a fever. I rooted around the bathroom and hidden behind all the towels, I found baby aspirin. I crunched one up and put it in some OJ. I rocked her to sleep and could tell her fever had broken. I never said anything to the parents.
If you found it hidden the parents knew?
I usually describe my childhood in Christian Science as, "I was raised in a well-meaning faith-healing cult," and there are inevitably a lot of follow up questions, especially if I go into any detail about how the benevolent medical neglect derailed my life. It's the expedient way to describe it, if slightly inaccurate. I'm delighted I'll have a link to point people at if they want to know better (ba-dum-dum).
I was raised in it too, I know people whom the neglect permanently affected. Crazy how parents ignored stuff right in front of them when they could've easily prayed while seeking medical care.
Mind if i ask a question? I'm curious how literal wounds are dealt with , or does the belief in everything being psychosomatic just for unseem injury and ilness?
@@meaganbritainy3868 short version is, "it depends". My grandfather was a Christian Scientist, and served in Germany in WW2. He got shot once, and clipped by a shell on another occasion. He was happy to get treatment. Some are more mellow, Granddad's approach to it was like KB's 30-day challenge. My Dad, quite different. he died of late stage cancer because he put treatment off.
I don't know if cult is a apt term. They are a devout bunch, but they will let you join and leave. I mean, you left, were you shunned or targeted like a Scientologist might be? I left, and I still have great relations with people and family I knew from the church. Doesn't feel cult-y
Cults don't always keep people in with acts like shunning or targeting. It can just be about demonizing the outside world so much that people are afraid to leave. Even if the church will do nothing to prosecute those who do.
That mother who watched her child die of cancer and then had the audacity to liken medical care to Nazi concentration camps... Hearing her insist she's a good mother while surrounded by paper cutouts of the daughter she killed fills me with such incredible rage. In part because of her audacity, and in part because I know she's only this way because she's been lied to.
Incredible journalism. Hopefully it won't be long before these abuse-protection laws get stricken from the books.
I won’t go into hospitals any more or take pharmaceuticals. I have my reasons. I think CS is true.
Me too. The words "oh fuck off" were shouted at the screen.
@Jackamomo As KB said throughout the video, it’s your right as an adult to refuse medical care and seek the treatment you want. It’s another thing to let a child die a painful, preventable death, as the comment you’re replying to is talking about
@@abigailchiesa1337 yeah but if you don’t trust doctors, how could you justify sending your kid to a medical professional who you genuinely believe is going to harm them further?
The lesson is that it’s wrong to not believe in medicine because it’s not up for debate how real and actually true it is.
So the criminalise the rejection of science is the only logical course of action.
@@abigailchiesa1337 maybe she’s right. I mean, Andy Warhol died in hospital during a routine operation not long after surviving being shot.
Dude, I've listened to some out there documentaries and history videos. But this made my head explode so many times. The amount of detail you put in here was truly outstanding. And this was, hands down, the most intriguing history story I've ever heard.
The things about caffeine you talked about... I have exactly the same experience. I didn't get headaches as withdrawal, but I don't think I've ever been so tired from one hour to the next when I quit.
I started getting extremely vivid and super abstract dreams and the occasional nightmare. Have a slightly easier time falling asleep than I used to, but other than that, I haven't noticed any real difference. After 3-4 weeks I went back to drinking coffee, but now I'm keeping it at a single cup of coffee/tea or a single can of soda per day. The dreams basically stopped immediately after.
Also I would never have you on in the background. I do, however, fall asleep occasionally 😂
My grandfather on my dad’s side who I had never met was a huge Christian scientist during his time. However this proved to be fatal to him once he had gotten cancer. About 7-8 months before he died, he had passed out due to the amount of pain that he was holding in. At the time he had no idea what was happening to him but he knew it wasn’t good. My Dad and Aunt who were also a Christian scientists at the time, eventually began noticing that he began looking visually more uncomfortable after his event and went against their usual instincts and began encouraging him to go see a doctor. However, he refused many times. It eventually got to the point where they both had to yell at him to get him to go. Once he went to see one, it was already too late. The cancer had spread everywhere and he had 3 months to live. During his final few weeks in the hospital, he tried to refuse what medicine he could, even morphine. He was in so much pain up to the last moments in his life because he so strongly believed that at any moment in time. He would be healed and be good as new. He died at the age of 55.
That’s a horrible way to go. I’m so sorry for your family.
I'm so very sorry for your loss.
This is like the parable of the drowning man, otherwise known as “two boats and a helicopter”
“God, I believed you would save me, why would you let me die?”
“Well, I sent you Doctors who knew how to cure you - and I sent your family to make you go to the doctor.”
@@tomatochemist Thank you I appreciate it.
@@pantaleimona Thank you I appreciate it.
As someone from Tennessee, I’m used to seeing my state on maps with stupid or bullshit laws either on the books or trying to get passed, so you don’t know the joy it brought me to FINALLY see a map where Tennessee isn’t a backwards state!!
Cries in Texas
Don't you have EPB in Chattanooga? You've got the only place in America where your energy bills aren't a mob shakedown.
Cries in Mississippi
same! well, not from tennessee, but i was absolutely expecting by state to just fall in line with the horrible thing going on.
From Nebraska. Same.
This is New Age before New Age proper. Truly ahead of her time.
New Age has always been old ideas recycled.
Good on you for giving people a moment to skip ahead or pause after giving a trigger warning! It's not something I personally need, but I always wonder how people who do are able to act on them because youtubers usually give them & power forward immediately. You're the first TH-camr I've seen who's waited a moment, so good on you!
The section on Child Cases was genuinely one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever heard and I spent the whole previous 2 hours knowing it would come up at one point. Absolutely ghoulish that people can support that and that the parents sometimes had the gall to believe they were still good parents after what they put their poor children through.
Humans have a very developed ability to believe what they want to, no matter how it contradicts with reality. It's one of our defining qualities.
Religions of all stripes take reality and substitute nonsense or superstition. Fairy takes are wonderful to read or watch but terrible to live.
Faith over human life, over compassion, over empathy, over kindness....It's unimaginable yet there it is.
When he said that kid had a bowel obstruction left untreated I paused the video for a sec. I work in a Veterinary ER, I've seen bowel obstructions on hundreds of dogs including my own. I still vividly remember all of the worst cases- ones where the only thing we can recommend is humane euthanasia because the bloated, heaving animal is too far gone and in unimaginable pain- I would never ever want to see what that looks like on a human child.
These people (fundamental Christians in general) claim you can't be a good person or have morality outside the church and here's my atheist ass thinking I couldn't put my worst enemy through any of that, let alone my child.
This channel just refuses to peak, every single season is a step up from the last. Absolutely phenomenal stuff.
Lol, this video is a whole season!
That video took a lot of research, writing, and work and it is much appreciated
You are by far one of my favorite channels
I regularly spend Sundays in the Christian Science Plaza, but only after I get out of my Catholic mass! Its a nice area to pace around while calling my family. Glad I watched this video, as I only had vague knowledge of the group before hand
Yeah, I was shocked when I learned about how terrible their approach to medicine and science is when they have such a good newspaper.
So the other day I walk passed a church and I turn to my buddy and go "Huh, it's a Christian Science church. I wonder what they're all about" and then the next day Knowing Better drops a two and a half hour long video discussing what their all about. This guy's in my head
Me when I think about "Belief it or not" not uploading for a while and then they drop a banger video the same day.
Or maybe it was a prophecy? Or a Revelation? Gasp! What else can you see, please dear prophet, I beseech thee, telleth me more!
obligatory /s
@@kellyngrey4950 yes my child. You have found me. Please, give me all of your money, and whatever you do, never let your child get medical care. SO SAYETH I!
Ashley's case was actually horrifying, I usually don't get emotionally affected by stories like this, but it just made me so angry... How could a mother let her child writhe in suffering for months, still refuse to let her go to hospital, and send her away to slowly die alone in agony and then have the audacity to claim she "knows she's a good mother."
This is just indefensible on every level...
If I had a child who was suffering, and also believed so strongly in a doctrine that prevented me from trying other methods of helping them relieve that suffering; even if I had faith they'd get better, if I saw them just suffering like that, I would try every possible option to stop it, even if I didn't personally believe it would be effective at all. If I had to, I would try methods that were even complete moonshots because nothing at all would ever be a higher priority to me than to ensure they stop suffering as soon as possible. So thinking "medicine would not be effective" is no fucking excuse at all! If you cared, you would still try it if that was the only option left, wouldn't you...?
How any mother could not put their child's suffering as the absolute top priority in their lives is beyond me...
They didn't even put her into palliative care, where she'd at least be spared the pain as she needlessly died... Just euthanising her would have been more humane than what they did to her... Absolutely disgusting people.
it's mental illness, you can't convince them. That's why we have to force them to take care of their child or take them away
Well I'm sure "Mother" Theresa knew the feeling.
Agreed on your last point especially. Euthanasia and palliative care need more respect in society
@@Tester-sh1mnwhat?
@@dosmastrify Long story short, mother Theresa opened up a bunch of “clinics” that where full of medical malpractice. She got top quality healthcare to fix her heart but let the poor in her hospices suffer in pain because it brought them closer to God. Wicked old hag.
I was born and raised in the Seventh Day Adventist church, left as a teenager, really looking forward to whenever you do the video on them. no pressure, whenever you're ready bud. love the work, huge fan
1:15:04 - my jaw drops
1:15:11 - i audibly gasp
1:15:18 - i make a strange, grabled exclamation expressing an emotion scientists have yet to name
anyway, loving the video so far!
I grew up in Christian Science, glad to see people hearing more about how awful and dangerous it is.
If you don't mind sharing, what was your most striking memory from your time in it?
Shit’s wack
@@DiseasedMoss What you really need to know is that the church experience is so antiseptic that the individual could be fooled into thinking that they are the problem.
Ohhh MG! I have a story for you on that!
So, I was working Adult Protective Services. One case, a family member was concerned about their eldest sister. A widow of a Christian Scientist. She was clearly suffering from dementia, some psychotic features, definitely not able to take care of herself. Family urged me to take custody as the state, and I saw the need for a guardian crystal clear - just one problem: When I took custody of people at need, I need to be able to find placement. Placement means at least rehab, but usually a nursing facility. Nursing facilities need medical clearance. Medical clearance means to see a doctor. She refused, citing she is Christian Scientist. The closest pastor was one she didn’t know or trust even if he would have been open to get her cleared since that doesn’t mean treating with medicine, but she was too paranoid. Sooo… I could as representing the State not go ahead with custody since I cannot violate deeply held religious beliefs. But her relatives could. So, I told them that usually, I take custody and turn it over to appropriate relatives, but I couldn’t in this case, but I’d be a witness if they needed one. Cost them a few thousand bucks extra this way. Would have been free if I would have been guardian for a day or two to place her in a safe environment, but I couldn’t.
@GameliEL Auceps what?
@@loveroffunnyy that's what I thought. 🙂
@GameliEL Auceps I think you are referring to my opening. I'm an atheist. I don't care calling on God or Allah... The reason I don't is that I know it is offensive to some and being offensive is distracting from my story. Even if I think there is no higher being does not mean I need to be insensitive to others. So, I simply avoid doing so.
@GameliEL Auceps thats what you got out of that you demonic hellspawn?
@GameliEL Auceps I happen to have a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and He told me to tell you that saying “oh my god” is totally cool and also that he was in a polycule with the 12 disciples. Go with God!
This man deserves some kind of mini-series. I really like these essays.
Hres wonderful. I just found this channel and I'm binge watching. I can't get enough!
I was raised by Christian Science parents and grandparents. I believed at the time they were devout in their faith because we went to church each Sunday. My grandmother kept MBE's book handy for constant reference, we read the Christian Science monitor and my grandmother was a member of the mother church. However I was taken to the doctor regularly for check-ups, vaccines, teeth braces, and regular preventative care. No-one in my family consulted a Christian Science Practitioner instead of a doctor for illnesses. They drank coffee and my mom and grandfather smoked. With that said, my mom never did seek medical treatment when she got cancer but it was because she couldn't afford heath care. All the info in this video is totally new to me. What surprises me more is how many times MBE was married. Not one word of that was ever mentioned by anyone at church, ever. I never had a negative vibe from the church, I just thought being a Christian Scientist meant you used God's strength to help you through difficult times. When that didn't work, you went to the doctor or consulted other experts.
what country are you from? british christian scientists are required to take their children to doctors, and as such, also generally don't mind going as adults. very different vibe from american christian science. and on the other hand, in all the american churches i've been to (and at principia), it was definitely not a secret how many times she'd been married. it was in some kids book about her life too.
@@OnsenDreamscapes I live in the good ole USA where healthcare is treated as a luxury item. Maybe it was my local church in Erie, PA that failed to mention anything personal about MBE in Sunday school. Once I was old enough to attend (adult) church services I stopped going to church entirely. My mom and grandmother continued to go and many years later my mom took my son to Sunday school until he too was old enough to decide for himself. Neither my son nor I have ever been involved with the church since our Sunday school days so I never spent any effort to learn about MBE and the church outside the minimal amount I remembered.
@@Val_Emrys interesting, yeah i guess i always went to pretty strict churches. i heard the cs churches in upstate NY are pretty loosy goosy, so maybe yours was like that
This topic is near and dear to my heart, I've lost a grandmother to breast cancer treated with essential oils and healing crystals. Glad we have some resources for helping lift the veil of ignorance.
"Spiritual snake oil" should be a more popular term since it describes a lot tbh. Amazing video! You're always so thorough, it's impressive!
Thanks! Not just for this one but all the great work you do. Intelligent, well researched, and accessible. Keep it up mate. From a fan in Australia.
Can't stress how much I love your content. Thank you for everything you do, sir!
If there’s one thing I’ve learned throughout my 22 years of life, it’s that if someone says the world is going to end in our lifetimes, then I should probably avoid letting anything they say influence me in any way.
Mrs Eddy never said that
@@amazingjane2703 Yeah, I also don't recall hearing that from her but it is good advice.
Yep! I'm a historian and folks have been predicting the end is nigh since the crucifixion of Christ. They've looked at every happening in a way that fits their beliefs, rather than approaching it rationally. TLDR those fvckers are crazy.
Really, I've never heard an outsider so accurately and understandably explain the tenants of Christian science in a way that logically exposes its circular beliefs without misunderstanding them.
Ty for everything you do. I’m a soon not to be homeless person who has felt like no one wants to do anything about all the bs in the world. Telling me it’s not my responsibility, it might not be but if you are out here making this content I can spread it and spread the msg
I hope you’re doing ok
Excellent video. Thank you for doing all of the research to educate us❤
The vaccine hesitency caused by christian scientists truly has been a massive headache for myself, the pharmacists, and technicians I work with
Strangely enough the vaccine hesitancy from church (not Christian Science) didn't make me vaccine hesitant. It was after getting the flu vaccine which made me extremely sick within three hours of getting it, and which also left me permanently exhausted and caused my joints to feel like they'd been bathed in acid any time I have a fever. If I hadn't been permanently weakened then maybe I would have recovered from mono better, which kicked off full body pain that never goes away and a long, long, list of health problems. Now people wonder why I am hesitant when it comes to vaccines and have even told me I deserve to die because I don't want to take any more.
@@winterinbloomI mean, that is a pretty unlikely story. Unless you are allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine, whatever happened is not likely the cause of your issues
Meh. No different than Big Pharma 🤷🏽♀️
@@winterinbloomironically, the problem
tales like yours are part of the problem, a big part. You should be ashamed of yourself.
i like how you plan ahead and shave your beard differently for different takes, that is hard, especially for a video this long, mad respect
That's what a script let's you do
The fact you have DVD-Rs on the ready made my day. Thank you
I just want to say that the quality of the content of this channel is impressive. I watched all videos at least once. I'm of course very much looking forward to the next video. I just hope this channel keeps growing and maybe in the future get enough support to release even more content and obviously reward the creator behind it. To Knowing Better, you have more impact on the world than you can ever imagine. What you do means a lot and we need more people like you to inform and educate people to make our society a better place. You are an inspiration. I hope to meet you someday.
Every miraculous story of people learning to walk again gets a completely different feel if you've ever had Lumbago. The first day, I could LITERALLY not move. Only after the third day and a fair amount of painkillers it all went away. But those first 48 hours felt so hopeless even if i knew it would quickly go away.
I know what you mean. I destroyed my knee years ago and have to deal with borderline crippling arthritis-I can’t even remember what having two working legs feel like.
It would be real nice if Jesus could lend a bro an arm and (more particularly) a leg 😂
Whenevr somone mentions lumbago I just think of Uncle from RDR2. "I.. I can't Arthur. I got terminal LUMBAGO!"
Yeah, I threw my back out once and was in toouch pain the stand up that first day. But here I am today completely healed, it's a miracle!
@@coolboy3848 it's very serious!
I didn’t know lumbago was a real thing, I thought it was just a fake illness uncle made up in red dead redemption lol.
That story of her falling, not being able to walk, and then miraculously healing shortly after makes me think of multiple sclerosis. Something similar happened to me when I was younger, and several times since then. I've always bounced right back after too, but that's how multiple sclerosis is.
Yeah, I was uncomfortable at her potential illness being described as simply tantrums. It seems to be that she WAS ill.
It sounds more like the neurological manifestations of some lupus presentations, when you combine it with her other symptoms. I wouldn't be shocked if she had SLE, it was often presented at the time as "just constantly ill, never getting better".
@@Abigail-hu5wf Ooh, good point. I have a cousin with lupus and she gets symptoms similar to what I also get with MS.
Amazing work as always about a cult I had never heard of before. This was a really interesting watch but also incredibly saddening and rage-inducing. The adorable ferret at the end was very much needed and made me think of how Swoop adds in a kittie-palate cleanser at the end of her videos. It just soothes your heart a bit and I couldn't help but smile at how the ferret was so very convinced of how much more delightful life on the other side of the gate must be.
Really, really great job presenting the history and the culture of the Christian Science followers. I never knew all these details. You spent a lot of time on this and I know many of us truly appreciate all your hard work and your well done video presentation!!! Thanks so much.
Babe, you don't understand, he's my comfort video essayist
Love how this man came out of nowhere after a month with +1 hour video
Me when I see a 2+ hr long Kb video-“LET’S FUCKING GO!!!!”
He's a propaganadist
@Nelson3300 in what sense?
He tends to do that
@@EntryLevelLuxury
All media with a message to impart is propaganda
In the late 80s when I was a very young child, I was severely ill for weeks with frequent vomiting while my CS parents gave me no medicine or treatment for it besides food, drinks, rest, and prayer. The way it was described to me there's a chance I very well could have died, but luckily I didn't. I never learned whatever it actually was, but it possibly could have been prevented by a vaccine that I never received because of religious exemptions in public schools at the time when it was still rare enough to not be an issue. Almost no physical ailment of mine received real treatment beyond the level of drug-free balms & creams, lemon-lime soda & crackers, or simple bandages. I'm still traumatized by my upbringing to an extent even after lots of self-work and therapy. I'm glad this dangerous religion (that promotes what I would personally consider child abuse) is still slowly fading out and one day will just be a footnote in history.
Interesting fact - while church members fought for various exemptions to vaccines for themselves, on March 1900 MBE herself explicitly stated in writing to just take them if legally mandated:
"Rather than quarrel over being vaccinated, I recommend that, if the law demands an individual to submit to this process, he obey the law; and then appeal to the gospel to save him from any bad results."
I can't imagine how much work goes into these videos. It's seriously impressive
I usually don't get bothered by the sections with disclaimers but when the child cases came up it just... the detailed descriptions of cases, the injustice of it all, the fact that it was entirely preventable, and the fact that the victims were all just children and were powerless in these situations... this was the most difficult thing I've ever listened to.
Exactly this. Those children and their suffering are never going to leave my head. To think those are only the ones that became public, too.
It genuinely made me incredibly mad and disgusted by these poor excuses for people
Today children can say they are the opposite gender and the government will happily perform irreversible gender change surgery and sterilize the child often without the knowledge of the parents. Somehow that is not child abuse at all with entire communities being fully supportive of this practice with nobody even listening to those that have detransitioned.
I appreciate that you went out of your way to explain how dangerous Christian Science can be to everyone, not just its followers, but if anyone honestly thinks it's okay because it only affects the children of Christian Scientists and not them or their children, they're heartless and have a serious lack of empathy. We need to protect people, period. Regardless of any circumstances or beliefs they or their parents might have.
All religions are dangerous to everyone, otherwise they would be called "philosophies" and they wouldn't qualify to be tax-free in a rich-corrupted land. Only State-Accepted religions get those special benefits above the rest of us groupies. In terms of danger, at any moment "the politics of heaven" will bear their "earthly members of the body/host" on our "inferior worldly politics" so they can use it to benefit themselves while obviously doing the opposite to us, given how the economy-game works. This always bears out historically.
Irony is they have children and the fans of this channel have darwin awards.
Further irony is "alive due to modernity" farms exactly the opposite of empathy.
@@churblefurbles what exactly are you talking about
@@jonahschwab He thinks none of us have children, or that we're dumb and die of darwin awards. A CS cult member obviously.
Love the deep dives! Great job
Lolll I feel super called out here. I was playing your video as background while hunting in RDR2 🤣🤣 I love your videos 🥰
My great Aunt went blind which could have been prevented with medical treatment. Her husband died from a cold and he was fairly healthy. My Grandma lived with debilitating Rheumatoid Arthritis without treatment leaving her without the use of her hands for years. They were all with Christian Science. I remember going to their service on Easter Sunday once and you were right. My Great Aunt and her husband manly just read from the books. They all lived in Michigan.
What is sad is they were the kindest, funniest and most calming people I knew. In their presence you felt at ease and had a good time due to their whit. It was so upsetting to see them suffer needlessly.
Echo chambers and extremist pipelines have ALWAYS existed. So dangerous to not hear the full story rather hear someone’s opinion or interpretation of said matter. Been a fan for years, beautiful work as always!
And the worst thing is that the ones who manage to come out become atheist extremists as well.
Genuinely dangerous stuff, especially when kids get involved
And I have to say that delving into the comment section for a video like this demonstrates to me that, instead of lunatics, serious people have serious things to say.
Your videos are always incredibly interesting and well made and this one is no exception! Thanks for all your hard work!
44:00 This is exactly what happens during periods during which I get enough sleep. I remember my dreams practically every single night, which was the norm until I started having issues going to bed. Also, unlike I used to years ago, I've noticed that recently my dreams are very concretely linked to what's going on in my life when I'm awake - which wasn't the case when I was younger (I'm currently in my early twenties)
My grandma was a Christian scientist. Luckily both of my parents were atheist or non-denominational so I got all the usual vaccines etc. I still went to Sunday school growing up, and that scientific statement of being unlocked some deep memories. I think the only reason my parents humored my grandma and sent me was because they could tell I viewed the Bible stories the same way I viewed Harry Potter, even from a very young age.
-and the inheritance : )
I’m glad you received an early inoculation of rationality.
The only thing this video tells people to do is if they hear anything religious sounding, they should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say. Also obey the scientists without question, even if they tell you that sterilization drugs are healthy.
@@funveeable lol what? If by "anything religious sounding" you mean "anything that sounds fantastical and for which there is strong evidence to the contrary," and if by "should immediately condemn the person and ignore anything they say" you mean "should not blindly believe anything they say. Oh and punish them if their actions directly lead to the deaths of children," then sure. That sounds about right.
Obey scientists without question? Really? You must be new to the channel, because he has a bunch of videos where he covers times when scientists screwed up and how you shouldn't just blindly listen to anyone. And sterilization drugs? Where did that come from? Sounds like you're projecting
@@funveeable Someone who thinks non-religious people, and even many religious people “obey” scientists must live in a world of delusion. As if the scientific community works as preachers in a church. Utterly comical. The only job of scientists is to research their fields and write up their findings in journals that are reviewed and often challenged by peers in the same field. Their findings in the fields of human health are acted upon by doctors if the research finds it is beneficial to people and can treat disease or symptoms. No one is forced into treatments and can utterly refuse them or seek second opinions from other physicians. Your comment about sterilization drugs sounds like it is founded in some manic fairytale meant to treat others the way you’re accusing people here. Learn how reality works before airing the dirty laundry of your ignorance. No one is “obeying” scientists and most rational people only dismiss others if those others are acting anti-social to begin with, regardless of religious belief and affiliation.
@@funveeable sorry the truth hurts so bad
As someone raised in Christian Science, having gone through Primary Class Instruction, and having read much of the source material you quote, I feel I do have an informed point of view. I left the church after both of my parents died (too young, in my opinion), and after my son was not responding to this form of treatment. (Son is fine now, and an adult. I credit him with helping me get out of CS)
One thing I will say, and said it at the time to friends, is that I find the church's claims that "members are free to do anything" to be a shield against legal liability for themselves, placing the onus on individual parents. Persons to whom a member might turn to were advising those parents that they are legally protected to choose radical reliance. Whatever the church may say about being free... there is social pressure within congregations (or there was back when I was in the church 20 years ago) for you as a member to be radically reliant, not just for yourself but also for your children. It's kind of like shunning.
I totally support removing those exemptions. My child received the "normal" vaccinations as a teenager, and I got my own in my second half century. Medicine has come a long way since 1866. Whole theories have changed. It takes a long time to come out of a belief system when you were systematically prevented from receiving contrary information. Did you know that CS parents could object to their child being exposed to education about diseases? They could in the 1950's - 1970's when I was in school. The entire concept of book banning and messing with school curricula is troubling to me, based on my own experience.
While there are a few minor inaccuracies in the video, I did not consider them consequential. Example: Wednesday evening readings are composed by the First Reader of each branch church, they are not identical to the Boston church. Often they do address local concerns or happenings.
Medicine changes with time, but omnipotent God does not. It's still all mortal mind shenanigans.
@@OhHapppyDaayAre you playing a bit or are you with the cult
Also, the mother church might not require abstaining from medicine for medical care for general membership anymore, but as far as I know, branch churches can still require it for membership, as can CS organizations that are not officially connected to the Church for employment and enrollment (such as Principia up until I believe 2019). And I'm also not sure what the status is at the moment for keeping one's "Journal listing" if one takes medicine. Anyway, though the mother church says you're free to choose medicine, this is pretty much the same as any other cult claiming 'you're free to leave at any time'. Yes, I believe you can still be exempt from human biology and medical topics in public school, at least i was in the 90s-early 2000s. at least my parents let me take sex-ed, lol.
It was nice to have you talk while shaving. It brings me back to the days when your videos would have you were cooking or getting ready for a date or whatever.