Distillers Parrots: Should I Use One? Do They Smear?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Distillers parrots or parrots beaks are a very common piece of equipment for home distillers.
But what does a parrot do? How do you use a distillers parrot? Do distillers parrots cause smearing and should I use a parrot?
These are the questions I am going to talk about today!
I also geek out a little bit a do a small experiment involving food coloring :)
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Just a reminder for those that use a Parrot. I tell this to all the persons using one for the first time. Make sure you have an air break. If not you will get back pressure and this can lead to a dangerous situation, as well as making the Parrot impossible to use as the hydrometer bounces like my nephew on sugar. Another great vid too. Looks like you've lost a stone or two. Looking good
Nuntius01 Ahh another internet expert lol
Yep, all knowledge gained state side has bee strictly from the interweb. Lol 8)
VERY good point Nuntius! COMMENT PINNED :)
+1 Nuntius01. A good safety tip!
A "Married" Parrot or "direct connection" Parrot will need an air break. You will see them connected to the output side of the condenser and they usually have a dump valve on the intake/bottom of the parrot to dump heads.
A "Divorced" or "Solo" parrot like Jessie is using is fine.
… yeah he's lost a stone or two - when he shaved his beard down! :o)
It would be interesting to fill the parrot with 90% ETOH, and watch the specific gravity as you push a volume of 100% water through. That would show how smeary it will make the hearts to tails.
From a practical perspective, collect the foreshots and heads directly into a jar. Once those are collected and out of the way, the parrot can be connected to the still output line. This will eliminate smearing of the nasty compounds into the desirable spirits.
or have a parrot with a valve on the bottom, cause connecting a parrot mid run without any leaking will probably only work if you're using flower paste
Make your parrot neck only as tall as your meter then less fluid in parrot. Less fluid. Less smearing. Mine is 125 ml end to end. Also making vodka you often double distill so smearing doesn’t matter on first distill since I keep it all.
What about if per say u use your Parrot backeards and check the % as it comes out of the condrnsor?
Then their wouldn't be any smearing?
Loved the visual with the food color control set, compared to the cuts you took from the parrot. Also, I knew nothing about this device, so this whole video was insanely informative to me, and you did an awesome job of explaining it. You have a teacher's heart and a scientist's passion. Outstanding job!
I had fun with it hahah
Cheers mate, .eams a lot!
This experiment is an example of "time constants" look them up they are a physics/chemistry theory. They will tell you that it takes 5 times the volume of a vessel to change the concentration in the vessel to greater than 96%.
It took me while to realise this is what we are talking about.
Yeah that makes a lot if sense
....not that the universe cares if it makes sense to me haha. But I mean that lines up with personal observation.
The replies below that say that if you make the volume smaller the smearing will be less also fits in with time constants. I know it from anaesthesia breathing systems, but it works with anything like this.
I thought this rule of thumb only applies to ideally mixed liquids, e.g. in a CSTR (Continuous Stirred Tank Reactor)? In a narrow tube you will find other flow conditions that are influenced by flow velocity, fluid viscosity, tube length, etc. (see Reynolds number)
I only use a parrot in reflux mode and I only connect it after my heads have come off then for me as soon as my abv starts dropping off I collect the rest as tails.
I dunno, I see a loss of correlation between the results of plain water vs alcohol under heat control given the differing boil points of methanol, ethanol and water.
You also have to factor the design of the parrot when you are figuring the amount of smearing. The smaller amount of liquid your parrot holds reduces smearing greatly. That's why I built mine with the smallest input tube possible
Agreed!
I've got mine down to 73ml capacity with hydrometer in there 😁 I'm surprised the main tube is so long, I used to sell ones that had the tip poking out the top a tiny bit so you can hold it. I never use parrot it untill have started collecting hearts.
I used to get 'smearing' issue when switching my van over to veg oil to diesel 😆 would take 15 - 20 mins to clear the diesel pump!
the smaller the still, the smaller the cuts... but parrot volume depends on hydrometer size... thinking of diy stills around 5gl/20l or even smaller "pot on the stove solutions", having the volume of a complete cut (or even more) in that thing sounds silly to me. So parrots might have their benefits for some "big scale" users, but with small stills, the disadvantages prevail. Just my thoughts ...
I wonder if the tongue is so sensitive to flavors as eye is sensitive to blue color. I doubt it.
Personally I wouldn't run a still without a parrot. When the first of the run comes out (real bad stuff) it should not go through the parrot. Better parrots have a take off spout on the bottom to drain this poison so it does not smear. Then one should be taking very small cuts, about 1-1.5 inches inches in small mason jars for rest of the run or at least until you are past the good stuff. Very small amounts flavor smearing occur but not insignificant. I find it very helpful having a parrot. It allows me to know how efficient my reflux system is operating in real time. At the end of the run it also lets me know when the liquid coming out has reached the point where it is a waste of energy to distil any farther.
You have a design flaw. The inflow in the measuring tube is too high. In that endcap in the bottom there will stay early head smearing out in the product to come. In brewery construction we avoid such design. No places where liquid can stay and change slowly. They are also harder to clean with the CIP.
Try making tubing as slim as possible . 3/8 or 1/4 " tubing coming down and just big enough tubing for alcometer ...
Try putting 1 glass of yellow die. then 1 clear and then one glass of blue . If you get green then its smearing.
The narrower you make the tubing, the less axial mixing you will get, and the cleaner your cuts will be.
Very nice video. Just got a parrot and an anxious to try it out. Do you think you increased your smearing factor by using the copper wool to cushion the meter? It would increase the "current" in the fluid, disrupting the continuous flow.
i guess we need a parrot that is as thin as possible whilst also having smooth bends instead of hard corners
I like running a parrot. I keep the ABV in the log so, as I go along I see the changes there as well. I have found that the ABV is a better indicator than my nose or burned out tongue. Like others I do not run 4-shots through the parrot. Old timers couldn't give a rat's ass. Fill the jar, shake it, watch the bubbles, add water until it shakes out right and SELL it. I like a bit more control and keep my whisky at 45%. More burns, less isn't as much FUN! Well done young man. Keep up the good work.
To add to your parrot drain valve; this video shows a commercial distiller using parrot and it's pretty interesting.
th-cam.com/video/UjFkyWbmqfU/w-d-xo.html
Essentially he keeps the drain wide open while sampling to see when the heads are done then closes it for the hearts. Probably not much different than dumping the parrot like you said... but at least you wouldn't need to fill the parrot first before learning it's smearing then draining it. Guess that also assumes that a person knows when to close the valve also....which I probably wouldn't. :D
ah cool. Yeah that is cool.
I kinda enjoy being able to assess each jar too. But I guess one day I maay move away from that. In which case running just like that would be the go.
Your Videos Are So Epically Awesome & Informative! Thank You For All That You Do For Society!!
Ahhhh shucks mate!
Parrots should be designed with the minimum possible volume to minimize the "smearing" problem you mention. The parrot you have has too large diameter down tube and too tall of a main tube (why you dropped your hydrometer in there and then had to put copper wool in). The parrot I designed and built has a 75 ml volume (with hydrometer in place) which is 1/3 what yours is. Maybe I should make and sell them.
Thanks, i was always pro parrot as the one's i have seen only hold 100ml and i guess i was under the assumption that if it holds 100ml there is no more smearing than you would get in collection jars, but when you consider as soon as the vapour hits point of no return it is condensed back to a liquid and slides down the the condenser and in to the jar with no chance of mixing except in the jar and reality if things start going bad the most you lose is a jar and that could be as little as 250ml but as you have shown using a parrot that could be several jars, a dump vale would limit the loss and clear the parrot of rubbish liquid.
Love my parrot for stripping runs. I don't use it on spirit runs.
Last week was my first time using a parrot. I did not use it to collect the foreshot and heads. I love it! I'm new to the Craft, and I love every moment is like magic to me.💯🥃💥
Funny you made this video cause after 10 years of distilling i finally broke down and bought a parrot and so far i have to say im pretty impressed with the mile high one that's made like a tank. I recommend one to be honest
Try "Dunking" the bird, or pushing the proof meter down into the spirit being tested,which semi-empties the well for fresher spirit refill. Good way to verify spirit changes.
True that. Will give it a crack.
Watch all professional German fruit spirit stills, they all have one...
Very informative for me as now I completely understand the term Smearing being a newbie to all of this. I did just build myself a parrot and think they are cool but because of this video, I also now know that I will only be using it to monitor the stripping run. I may even modify it to make it a bit smaller as it now holds 140 mls. I could probably shave another inch off the height but likely not worth the effort for the difference in volume. Thanks again man, love your videos!
After the heads I blend all mine anyway lol and I use an all copper pot still I find it makes for an all around better taste over all but to each their own
Very scientific, best channel for understanding this stuff.... you sir are an absolute Legend!
so the smaller the parrot the less smearing? makes sense to me
Three suggestions, make your parrot half the volume. Second add a dump valve. Third, design it so that there is a U shape rather than a T shap at the bottom. All of these changes would eliminate the issues. And finally as a method, too much food coloring. Second spraying into the intake tube would cause mixing. Thanks for the show.
I am thinking that if you want to reduce smearing, you would want to reduced volume by using smaller pipes. Comparing this parrot to the ones I am researching, the input and output are 1/4' pipe and the parrot main vessel is shorter. I think I will build one just to see if I can reduce volume significantly from the 200+ ml initial volume.
I'm just getting into the hobby so it's not like I can speak from experience - but I favor a refractometer over the hydrometer in most cases.
They can generally do the same job in most cases, and can be found pretty cheap if you shop around (a manual one at least).
The big benefit is that you can get a reading in seconds from literally a single drop - which makes it so much more practical and hygenic in comparison. Just have a long pipette/syringe or simple straw at hand to sample from your big fermenters and you're set.
I don't see them referenced very much though. Maybe it is because they haven't been cheaply available for everyman-use until recently? Or maybe it's simply due to traditionalism and people not knowing that they even exist as an alternative.
BUT , considering smearing , the parrot still tells you when proof starts to drop, the same will happen without a parrot but you will have a better idea with a parrot.
A revisit of this with the fill neck of the parrot filled with copper wool to slow the interaction of the fluids down mayhaps? Or perhaps any other experiments the patreon members suggest to potentially reduce or eliminate smearing
Picked up a little tip on another channel on using a parrot. Ball up a small piece of copper mesh and drop it in the bottom of your parrot. Gives you some padding if you accidentally drop your proof and tralle in to hard... and you already knew that.
nice one I will be puting this to use ... i am on my 4th in as many weeks
hahah. how good of a tip is it though?!?!?!
God dang I wish I knew who it was that told me that!
Still It I think I saw it on Barley and Hops
It was me Jessie. I mentioned it in the comments almost a year ago(?)
You put up a screen shot of it and mentioned me in one of your videos. You also asked me about my screen name "BigEd's Guns" and you made pistol with your hand, and then made a muscle and asked me which...
Answer is both. I used to be a bouncer at a couple bars.
I have always enjoyed shooting firearms, and up until 7 years ago building and repairing airsoft guns. I enjoy the craft, home brewing, and target practice. ;)
Cheers!
Should have known it was you mate :).
I guess you could use the parrot for the stripping run, but not for the spirit run, right?
Yep I'll DEFINITELY use it EVERY strip run. And likely work out how it will fit into my spirit runs too.
OMG, It's just a question if you like live information or 0.5 hourly or 1.0 hourly, or 2.0 hourly, etc. Parrot allows you to monitor in real-time. you don't have to keep filling a cylinder and dropin' the alco in. you can just watch live. Its no big beak :P (get it?)
i know this is an oldie (but a goodie), however... i want Lazy Plummer's info! i'm also hesitant to use a parrot, tho i will probably get one at some point... just 'cause. ;-) but... BUT... that's some great work from what i see. i wanna check out his other stuff (if he's selling any of his stuff). thx Jesse, as ALWAYS!! d-(^^,)
ps. prost! from Ohio!! :-)
wow, someone in your house drinks coke zero?! Tell them that unless they cut out all the other bad food in their life Coke zero ain't gonna do shit :P Sowwy! (I know you took the label off, but there is someone in my life who eats buckets of KFC whilst drinking Coke Zero which blows me away and I reckon I would recognize that bottle anywhere. yes, there a difference but I ain't tellin. A Magician never reveals his/her tricks. but its no magic its pretty ordinary obs. fuck I talk shit when I'm drunk.
Thanks for the great video
Thanks as always for the great info. I had never heard of parrots or smearing before today. Cheers!
;) well there you go!
Great experiment and tons of really informative comments on this one. Great community you've got here Jesse!
Cheers my bro. Yeah the comments section is gold! Lucky to have a bunch of clued up people hanging about ;)
Why can't the parrot be made not so deep and tall to hold less liquid for it to rotate the liquid faster
It can be, with the smaller alco meters. It does not remove the problem, just reduces it.
Like I said, for some people they prefer the data the parrot gives to any draw back in smearing. Im just givving the info so you can make your own mind up.
Tip for making your parrot is only make it as tall as your hydrometer. Every place you can limit volume, limit volume
bit off topic but how many jars do you recommend when making your cuts, essentially how many parts are you breaking it up into? Thanks!
the amount of smearing is directly proportionate to the volume of it...260cc???WOW! smaller shorter tubing...and the top of the parrot should be at the 200 proof line when you gently place it on the bottom!
How is it going to smear if you first collect the forehead/heads first then collect hearts and then keep a check on tails when you know roughly going to come through. When you see a slight drop in ABV then you know tails are slowly coming through. You just collect tails in separate jar and pour the content out of parrot into tails jar. If this is done how are you going to get smearing if you do as I just mentioned???? Collect Forehead/heads and tails separately. All I want the parrot for is to collect for hearts only and to use it so I don't have to keep collecting hearts every 100mls/200mls is the whole point so you got one less job to do besides temperature control on your intake water.
Somebody help me because you only get smearing if you run it without taking the cuts from foreheads/heads/tails which you wouldn't do in the first place. Mmmmm confused 😂🤣😂🤣
The second chamber of that parrot needs to be smaller in diameter like the first. That would minimize the amount it holds and would reflect the ABV change more quickly.
The design could be improved.
I'm just starting to distill. A rookie indeed. Why can't you just periodically empty the parrot to prevent smearing before you go on? Thanks!
Very interesting topic.
One thing is that the parrot design will have a great influence. The less liquid it will hold, the better.
Your parrot is way too high. The diameter of the incoming fluid is too big, etc... In many ways you can reduce smearing.
A good Subject should be "Parrots, should they make of expensive metals like copper or stainless"?
You may want to consider the density of the liquid. The lower the proof the more dense the liquid, therefore forcing the higher proof liquid out of the parrot. By way, of displacement. Maybe? I am completely new at this I have not even Done one distillation yet. Although I am preparing to do one in the next few days. But in playing around with the hydrometers. I think we need to consider the density factor.
I’m not sure your experiment is totally fair. You used a homogeneous water mixture, correct? During a spirit run, the first to come out is a higher ABV. As the run continues, the proof decreases. In the parrot, the new incoming supply comes in from below. So at first the heads will be a higher ABV and therefore a lower density. As the run continues, the incoming supply has a slightly higher and higher water content and therefore a higher density so it will stay at the bottom and work it’s way upward. Not mixing with the lower density stuff higher up. At least as not as much as just water alone.
Another proper test with real-world conditions might be required. Such as adding coloring during an actual spirit run.
Super informative video! Great work 👌
I would make it to clean easier, and use 551 cleaner, to make good non-smearing alcohol/drinking likker!! HA!! Keep it clean!! And you can cook some good clean drinking stuff!, can make some good stuff if you filter through white oak charcoal, and coffee filter to hold the charcoal in, burn to make charcoal, but rinse the coals before filtering!
I think your experiment has a flaw. You are using a fluid with a constant density, so smearing in the parrot will take place. In distilling, the density of the fluid will be increasing over time as the abv drops. So, in using a parrot, the lower density fluid that comes off first will rise to the top of the parrot - since new liquid is added to the bottom of the parrot. This will prevent a lot of the smearing that you are seeing in your experiment.
That's a really good point actually. Perhaps I will have to try this again with two different ABV solutions.
Would it not have the opposite effect on the opposite side of the parrot though?
Here's a good example of different liquids going into a common container and getting very little smearing due to density differences - th-cam.com/video/MoVZoCmkdjY/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TipsyBartender.
I suspect that my initial objection will be mostly incorrect as the abv of the distillate doesn't change very quickly as the parrot fills. I collect spirit directly into jars, and use a parrot only periodically to check abv, so it's not much of an issue.
Degmar is correct. A user on the Hobby Distillers did one with red food coloring. He put in a couple drops at the beginning of the run and it all got pushed out within a pint/half pint jar. I believe it was done again during a head cut, same results. Might have been TruckinB.(?)
Right. methanol, ethanol, and H2O evaporate based on densities. Does anyone have any experience using boiling beads?
You already retested this ?
Good to know what a parrot is.
It may be useful how I do my runs.
I run my pot at about full blast for alcoholic standards. Good to know if I'm still collecting alcohol.
Then I throw it in my temperature controlable air still at 95C. Thoss water out.
Then I throw it back in for temp. based cuts.
Ah if making zombie lubricant and not blending to get a lower proof sure might as well go ahead and worry ABV changes per jar are dropped :) Yah it sure will muddle flavor changes.
Smearing is directly proportional to the volume of the parrot, Some parrots have a 6mm feed tube and some a 19mm diameter feed tube. getting the smallest parrot that will fit your needs reduces the smearing. IMO best used for separating the stripping run from the water.
I'd say a "fix" to this entire issue could be as easy as adding a drain cock to the lower section of the parrot and drain each run huh. Then you have an exact run each time and not but what, a drop of blend or smear? Non the less. Still a good randition of your explanation to newbees!
That would totally fix it. But it would also render the parrot somewhat unneeded. Its just a trade off. what is important to you?
Would it let people know when to make the cuts, especially if it had a valve at the bottom to drain off periodically, to then test the next lot in the parrot, like say start collecting at 94% and stop at say 45% and that's the Hearts of your run.? That makes sense to me 👍🏻🇦🇺
namesto tega lahko postaviš alkoholmeter v 100 ml stekleno menzuro in menzuro namestiš v 2 l steklen kozarec
Your production and presentation is great man. I look forward to that 100k subscriber count it'll be here faster than you think. (Edit hear to here, one too many)
Haha dunno about that mate! But cheers 🥃
One thing that may be of interest to Still Spirit's T500 boiler & alembic head setup owners:
When I'm doing a spirits run with the alembic head, my cold water tap is on 100% (or until it blows off a water hose!) & yet I still get vapours coming out... The parrot solves this issue. :)
Hi, not sure if you still get these messages on older videos... is there any benefit to the liquid distillate contacting copper in the parrot as well as in the vapour path? Could the parrot be made out of stainless with no negative effect is the question?
If you’re using a larger still with the same size parrot will that result in less smear relative to the increased size of the still?
In my mind you would end up with the same quantity in mL of smear, but because you’ve got more liquid it will have a greatly decreased impact... can someone confirm?
I would agree with this. Basically the same logic as larger boiler giving greater resolution on cuts.
Simple solution is sweat in a drain petcock onto the bottom of the parrot. When trading out jar drain it out. I only watch until you described the "smear" ,, boring!
I suspect there's a different answer if you're running 100 gal vs 5 as well?
There would be exactly the same amount of smearing in terms of the voume it takes to compleatly refresh the parrot. The difference would be the resolution/volume of each cut. The volume of the parrot becomes insignificant when dealing with much larger volumes.
Size of still would make a huge difference in smearing between heads, hearts and tails. A small still would change much quicker than a large one, resulting in more smearing.
IMHO, a parrot is only useful if you are making say a 20 gal. or more run, efficiency of scale, the smear would be greatly reduced to an almost negligible amount, since it is a constant value regardless of quantity, if you have 5 gallons of wash and get a quart of smear, that's a lot, but at 20 gals, a quart is nothing.
That is a very good point my man!
a suggestion you don't run heads through a parrot, the parrot is to show you the abv while running your still. you don't need it to run fast run as for the smearing, I am 74 years old, my father made whiskey about all of his life. I helped him a lot and I never heard him use the word smearing .what is smearing?
Another cool bit of 'idiot proof' info, thanks man. You are the distillers equivalent of a science teacher...
The copper wool cushion is a smart idea, but another fool proof way to not break your hydrometer by accidentally dropping it is to start your run first, let the parrot fill, and then put your hydrometer in once it’s full and flowing.
Great video, I use a parrot and I tend to drain the parrot, that means I have a valve in the bottom of the collection tube when doing my cuts, so in saying that I dont get smearing or very little at all.
Why not have just the 1 side of the Parrot, the side your Hydrometer is in and collect straight out of your coil?
I'm thinking of using 1 for the cuts?
Great experimental video. I gave my parrot away because I had the same concerns about smearing. A small amount of undesirables can greatly affect flavor. I run my heads very slow and I wouldn't want them mixing in with my hearts in any way shape or form.
Add a dump valve to the bottom of the parrot .. easy and no smearing .
Also an easy trick is actually common sense (no offense), but to add the hydrometer once the four shots are gone and the pipe is now full.
Aren't parrots supposed to have a drain at the bottom so you can clear them between tests? Wouldn't this negate "smearing"?
I USE THE PARROT FOR WHEN I'M SHUTTING DOWN AT A % OF ALCOHOL I LIKE!
OTHERWISE, YOU'LL BE BOILING THE WHOLE THING FOR NOTHING!!
Hey mate I know this is 5 years later but could you use the parrot for you stripping run and not use it in your main head would that effect it thanks
grand pap just read the bubbles
And Grandpa only ever had a hunch as to what was going on. Unless it's not clear, I'm not really partial to parrots. I am partial to data that can help me improve :)
Sorry when I say that I mean in relation to proof.
A proper parrot has a drain valve on the bottom, and if used properly is only filled when you want a measurement.
My understanding has always been that as long as you can pull your foreshots without them getting into the parrot, parrots are great for either stripping runs or vodka
Piss ant design.
The guy must have been slugging too much of his own gin when he did it!
"smearing" is literally the biggest of all non-issues there could possibly be.
I just use a parrot for stripping runs. I collect foreshore in a jar then switch to parrot into a jug until it tells me when I’m done.
i drain my parrot after each change so i dont get smearing i loose my be 15 ml in the process of draining put back into the next parrot fill
It would be perfect for a stripping run but I’d remove for the product run.
Your experiment is flawed from the outset, as the product is not pure as it exits the column.
you should probably have ran a normal batch and made your cuts and put them through a specrometer. Dripping water into a colorant laden parrot does not represent how alcohol behaves. In either a mechanical or chemical fashion
True, I mean I just have that spectro sitting there. May as well use it 😂
Not sure about NZ but many colleges/universities in the US have grad students and staff that are alcoholics and a chroma just sitting there. and paid labs here will do chroma tests for as little as 25$ per sample.
I have actually been talking to one of the local unis about just this. I would really like to do a "proper" methanol video with that aid.
@@StillIt this would be really interesting. Testing how much methanol is really in your spirits with a spectrometer would dispel a lot of myths.
Is there any reason you can't add the parrot partway through the process? Skip the foreshots and estimate on the heads a little then add the parrot to the process?
You just saved me 50 dollars in materials and a hour or two of work, thank you for talking me out of making a Parrot! Your videos are the best
zach, one aspect Jesse didn't touch on is that temperature of the spirit off the still. Not seen one yet that dropped out 'cold' spirit so the parrot reading could be taken as gospel. For that reason alone, much as I'd like the toy, no thanks.
Yeah good point Peter, I tend to tune my condenser so that it does come out at 20c. But thats just me, and I dont use a parrot haha.
My 24 X 3 inch shotgun condenser puts out cold spirits through the whole run.
Just a question .
How warm does the exit water get on the condenser and can you circulate the water from a water tank if there is no water tap near by
Hearts are hearts to me. I only start using the parrot after I throw out my heads and stop using it when I start getting tails. So to me parrots are perfect
Put a dump valve in. Would be interesting to see a run with a dump valve
I can see the point of a parrot in the striping run, but the second distilling is all about tastes and cuts, I can't see the point in the cuts run.
Had and used one piece of stainless steel pot scrubber in the bottom stops smashing your alcohol meter
Your parrot up tubing should be at least 25mm in diameter