Testing Different Oak Char & Toast With Nuclear Ageing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2018
- This week I decided to test 4 different American white oak toasts and chars by quickly "ageing" some UJSSM whiskey.
I wanted to be able to taste the differing flavours fast so I decided to use the nuclear ageing method.
NOTE:
- Yes, I used those "bad" lids. I know its a problem but I needed to use 4 "identical" vessels to keep variables down. I know its not on, but am willing to do it in a test scenario.
- I understand that some people think of this method as unsafe. I understand your concerns, but personally, think the risks can be minimised to an acceptable level.
- If you DO try this method MAKE SURE you are careful, take precautions and DO MORE RESEARCH!
- Yup this is not "really ageing". That's the topic for a whole other talk. That's not what this video is about. It's about being able to experience the different flavours that wood imparts quickly so I can use that knowledge now.
- Yes the wood will likely impart different flavours over a different time period.
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Tip: try this process in the trunk of your car. You get the big temperature swings, depending on time of year, you get vibration, liquid movement, and if you listen to music, you get the vibration from the speakers in the trunk. I've been able to turn 4 grain white whiskey (that smelled awful) into a drinkable, enjoyable whiskey, in three weeks in trunk, and was able to eliminate the harsh smell. I recommend it highly.
3 weeks of aging sounds nice
awesome idea! im doing that.
The modern version of seagoing casks.
Driving around with bootlegged liquor on the other hand comes with its own risks lol
@@brandonn102 Well, it's historically accurate!
I age mine in a sous vied water bath. Slow heat prevents the glass from breaking , keeps it at a constant temp, then take it out and freeze for an hour , do it again . You can keep the lids on and not worry about accidents.
I know this is old, but do you have a fav time and temp?
@@thirstbuster78 I wouldn't think it would be to high, to mimic what a whisky warehouse might experience. 90f max for a couple hours?
I really appreciate your in-depth and knowledgeable videos. They’re hard to find and I’m glad to have come across your channel. As a noob, it gives me lots of insight and direction. Thanks, cheers!
"The party happens at the end. When it first goes into your mouth, there's not much going on." I lmao 🤣
You rock, brother.. I love your videos. I love the way you work to not only produce a great product but learn exactly what it is that produces that product. You're an artisan and a gentleman. Hahaha I'm new to the craft and love that I can learn from a guy like you. Cheers!
I've mentioned this on another of these videos. Last time I distilled, I decided to toast wood at same time. Placing toasted still warm white oak and maple in 1 litre jars with fresh spirit 45-65% gave me rapidly colored and mature tasting corn whisky
The first half of the video is great can't wait to watch the rest after work.
Yeah . . .she was a long one! haha
Awesome stuff, sir! Thanks for making these.
Great video and it opened my eyes to the different possabilities. I've been adding one charred and one medium toasted stick. It's a good combination for me. BUT... It makes a pretty big difference at different alcohol levels as well.
Whats your impression, whats the best ABV to age spirits?
Love the videos!
I haven't even gotten a still yet but I am looking forward to it. This video has me excited to get another oak barrel and age one in my 56 degree basement and the other outside.
Very cool video dude. I've read about this but haven't tried it yet. Had no idea you could get so much flavor. Awesome stuff!
Yeah it was interesting. Still think going the long road is probably better. But gave me idea of the flavours oak can impart.
Thanks for a very good video that so thoroughly acknowledges the differing approaches and applications to this very complex phase of craft distilling!
I’ve personally come to the conclusion that jar aging can only mimic long term rest in a barrel. I’ve also reached the conclusion that over-oaking isn’t really an overarching concern. Why? Because with small sticks or chips the wood pretty quickly becomes saturated and won’t give up any more after a certain point. After this initial saturation point of a couple of months the flavors extracted from the wood will mellow on their own. Time is a key element that cannot be discounted.
I’ve arrived at making the largest splits possible of about 3” in length and will fit thru a 38mm jug neck. I use enough to more or less float as a single layer in a gallon jug that is about 3/4 full of about 65%. These are toasted/roasted/charred over an open flame in a small covered pot with a perforated bottom. I keep shaking these to put out the flames until they get hot enough to want to burn. I then take off the cover and let them burn until it’s too much to handle and then quench in a bucket of water. Some of the sticks are deeply charred while others are toasted to varying degrees. Generally, about 15 of these go into each jug.
After about a month the liquor will be quite smoky tasting and very woody. After a couple of months the sweetness comes to the fore. After sitting thru some colder weather it really settles in. It seems to be pretty well settled after about 6 months or so and I’ll usually start bottling some off but some have sat through the winter months. I usually clear out the last of these by about 9-10 months to free up jugs for the next season. Doing all of this in an unheated garage gives all of the temperature fluctuations I could want and I consider 6 months to be a minimum target but haven’t seen any problem with letting it sit longer.
An awful lot of posters seem to panic when it gets dark brown and tastes strongly of wood after a few weeks but as I’ve said I figure that first couple of months to be a saturation point. It won’t do any more than simply mature after that. Time and patience.
Just my 2 cents worth and what seems to work pretty well for me. Thanks again for your concise advice based upon your experience.
chucker have u tried electric heat gun
Loving these vids as I look more into this craft ❤
Great video. I used the jack Daniels’s smoking chip sometimes and what I do is put it in a bucket out in the sun or put it on my radiator then wrap with a towel for a day all depends on the season. Then after a 8 hour sit put it in the freezer for 8 hours. Back and for for 4-5 days. Works really well.
Don’t feel bad about Fahrenheit here in the states we suck at Celsius. Lol
Nice man. On the radiator? Haha awesome!
Sure wish I lived closer to compare notes to my tests, I find such a heavy wood flavour that I am considering scrapping the whole mess and starting over. I will give this method a try, but I still want to try ultrasonics and pressure infused.
As always I rush to every one of your postings and I'm never disappointed!
Yeah, that would be cool to be able to compare!
I have seen a few people say that they will leave a woody/tanic mess alone for 6months and it turns out great. . . . . . could try that rather than loose it?
Hi Jesse, just adding a note here. I have used a batch of chipped American Oak to flavour my first litre of whiskey which turned out delish (to my untrained nose and pallet), but seemed to fall short on the second batch (using the same wood chips). SO I've come to the conclusion that the wood chips I used (about 100 grams per 1 litre of 80% spirit) was good for the first batch but ran out of goodness for the second litre. After a few iterations of heating and cooling on the second batch I couldn't shake a certain chemically smell. Once I used fresh wood chips it was gone immediately after the next heating cooling iteration. I came across great article that said the chips impart certain smokey caramelly\vanilllaish flavours in to the spirit while the charred charcoal chips present act as a filter and soak up undesirables. Thanks for your efforts. Im having so much fun!!
Hi love'n the vids I've been in distilling for about a year now and got my gins spot on so trying ujssm for the first time only running a T500 with pot and column in the Wellington area. Good work man. :)
Love your videos Jesse. Keep em coming. Got to try nuclear aging
👍⚛️
Really helpful video - thank you for your time.
Great video man, I have just cited you in a design science project. This is a brilliant idea.
More power to you brother thank you for your streams, makes me want to try distilling my own spirits and cider, lots of apples in my area
Great vid, very informative.
THanks :)
Nice video jess and the oak flaver is more pronounced if you heat then freeze then heat it allows the wood to exspand and contract to pull the whole flavor out of the wood
Surface area is probably more important than volume, so use the same number of same sized pieces instead of same weight... but also what a wonderful little experiment. Thanks!
I AM having a kick ass day ! You helped make it. Thanks !
Cheers mate 🥃
You have an incredibly difficult job. Sipping whiskey all day. Enjoyed the video and your descriptives.
Great experiment
Thanks Jesse! If I were to to try this I’d use my sous vide setup. I could keep the water bath at exactly whatever temp I chose for as long as I wanted.
That would do it very nicely
Lids on or offf
My favorite part about watching your videos is when you giggle. It's like HAHA that guy's having fun, doesn't take himself too seriously!
Or he's had about 4-5 tasters before shooting the video.
What I have done successfully in the past (and present) when doing quick aging of spiced/herbal spirits such as Akvavit, Bäsk etc. to try out the spice blends proportions is to put it in bottle/jar in dishwasher and let it run a cycle or two.Same works well to get initial coloring from wood.
nice
This is a really good idea when you put it on 70 degree celcius dishwasher but how can you control the expansivity ? The boiling heat of ethanol is 78 C and if it starts boil (forexample) it will blow up it's container. Even if you controll the heat and just hold on 70 degrees the expansition will start. Am I wrong please let me know
Fantastic experiment. Oddly enough this past weekend I was doing some taste tests with friends in a nuke aging experiment. I did 4 cycles + 1 week and compared it to 1 month, 2 month and 3 month regular aging. All using medium toasted oak. Everyone preferred the nuke aging flavors. I did do my cycling a bit different than you but more experimentation is def in order with the results I got
Tru that?
Interesting man! Yeah I must say I waas blown away at the flavour I got out of this. Definitly keen to play with it some more!
Few months of aging won't do much for the profile in normal environments as you don't have the temp range change of winter/summer/winter/summer/repeat does when you age for years. You need the full cycle.
I know a couple of guys who vary the cycles. Some cycles are "warm" and some "cold" and some "hot" and some "freezing". You can use anything from heat lamps to radiators to microwave to stove top in water to putting outside in the sun. For the other cycle you can use the refrigerator, the freezer to outside in the winter.
Vary the cycles like in nature. Try many cycles to see if a "10 or 15 year" cycles is better than a "3 or 4 year" cycle. Try with less wood over more cycles as well. Try with used wood after first batch.
If you loose the "complexity" of the un-aged shine, feel free to blend un-aged product back in to the final mixed product. You might find you like some wood at 5 cycles, other wood at 10 cycles. It doesn't all have to be aged the same amount of cycles. Keep good logs and adequate samples as you go for reference.
Experiment!
Also keep in mind you can add complexity by using the wood to "age" sherry, brandy, wines and other alcohols first before using them for you whiskey.
cool stuff jes, allway something new thanks for sharing
cheers mate :)
Awsome video! Gave me quite a few ideas and questions! What would u think about pressure cooking them in jars? How much of this has more to do with nuclear radiation as it may be from just heat and/or pressure? .... here's an idea, what about putting the wood in your mash and distilling it that way? Breaks down the wood while its evaporating, KINDA like a gin basket, but in the hottest area. Maybe give it a shot! What do u think?
Hi Jessie if you read this it has been suggested in the comments using a vacuum chamber as done with resin to make wood stable. NO RISK OF FIRE a lot safer at least and cheap to do.
Beautiful video, Thanks.
Thanks Jesse, this beats the hell out of Still Spirits bourbon chips. Tried them and after 8 days got a nasty fine layer of crap at the bottom of my jar. Tried putting it through coffee filters but it was still there and then tried a small amount of carbon filtering, which worked, but lost approx. half a litre out of a 5 litre batch. Lesson learnt!!!
Nice topic again. Interesting method. The help of the microwave and the freezer. Saves a couple of years of our life so we could produce more alcohol.
Yeah I'm sure time would give a better result but it was good for this purpose :)
One round is enough with just microwaving and no need to store for 2 days, providing you put more oak.
Also no need to refrigerate.
I mean avoiding as much activity does deliver you wicked thing any way , aspecially if you are making it all from scratch .
Without this video I would not work it out at all , so massive thing to Mr Beard
I wonder if you could get the same effect if you took a food saver machine with the jar attachment and vacuum all the air out of the jars
Interesting background on your bubbles from the wood......In the early days of the railways here in the UK they needed to maximize the lifespan of the timber sleepers; prevent rot etc. They didn't have the tailor made timber preservatives of today but they did have creosote. They needed to ensure the creosote penetrated as deeply as possible into the sleepers so they heated the sleepers in a water bath for a time to drive any air from the timber before quickly removing it from the water and submerging in cold creosote. As the timber cooled the creosote was drawn back into the low pressure voids within the sleeper to ensure the deepest penetration possible. We still use a similar idea today except with vacuum vessels.That's the cause of the bubbles - if you leave the jars to cool then ethanol will be drawn deep into your oak. Firelighters? :)Yeah I know it's nerdy but I'm a sawmiller.
Excellent Video! Keep it up!
I have a useful labeling tip. Use clear tape, write on the tape once its been stuck on the glass. Apply another piece of clear tape once the ink is no longer runny. makes a cheap label that wont rub off and when your done you can just remove the tape.
Dude that's a great idea!!
going a step further you could also color co-ordinate it. Also i swear im not a pintrest mom. I resell magic the gathering cards on the side and wanted a cheap and effective way to label my boxes but still have them be useful after the box is no longer needed. @@StillIt
...yeah bro. diggin' back into your old stuff. Love it! I hope you go pro someday! (like, make money) Don't forget your roots. ;)
Interesting method man.I will try it.
Yeah it did better than I thought it would!
Awesome videos. I'll have to try this :)
Hello, thanks for your videos, very informative. I tryied my first rum distillation and it came out ok but it smells a little bit like whent it was brewing, I don't know how to explain...maybe I used too much yeast...next time I used half of the yeast and it came out lot better but still with a hint of that smell...is there anything I can do to fix the first? Thanks
So, do you balance out the wood that you put in your UJSSM, specific ratio of each kind, or make a batch of each type and blend them after?
Tip! Use a small piece of clear tape and place it over your markings on your jars. This will save your notes even if ya try washing it. Just peel the tape to remove like normal. Also Medical tape (or clothe tape) is useful incase your marker just won't stick enough to get a clear reading. Cheers!
Hey do you have a good range to start with, say X grams of wood per Y milliliters of spirit? Just looking for a starting point in weight as opposed to length and width of pieces... Thanks so much!
would it be effective to test heat water in the same number of jars & volume in the microwave first to get a rough idea of how long to heat for?
If i just put the oak sticks and let the jar for a couple of months in room temperature without heating , you think i will have a good outcome?
Nice video Jessy,I just ran a batch of rye bread and corn flake mash today,going to try this method of oaking.
awesome man. hows it tasting > ?
Just ran it yesterday,haven't made the cuts yet,still airing,I will make cuts tomorrow and put it on some oak,will let you know in a couple months
Cool keep em coming Jessie your videos are easy to follow as a novice distiller . From blenhiem
Ayyyeeee another Kiwi!
Glad you like em mate :)
Would it be a good idea to do one round in the microwave and putting the lid on, to get that seal, then let it sit for a couple weeks/months ?
Generally toasted is used for wine and different levels of char is used for spirits. Light char to dark char will go from the more vanilla to carmal to the more smokey and burnt taste
Very helpful, thank you
Hi I used a water bath concept to bring it up to temp gently, keeping the lid on to apply gentle pressure and then take the lod off so that it can create a vacuum when I put the lid back on and cooling it.
Very interesting video. Thanks
hi,
i don't seem to be able to get rid of the "woody" flavor that's transferring into the alcohol, any ideas? and yes my oak is toasted.
hi bro, plz I want to ask u if i put walnut wood did the taste of whiskey will be bitter??? or only i have to aged it with oak??? there is a problem if i put them together??? waiting your answer 😊
Once you’ve found a ratio you like would putting that ratio of the woods in your spirit to age be the same as ageing them separately and then combining them like you did?
Great video. You're a mad scientist 👍
Well I don't know about scientist 🤪
Your videos have given me a lot to think about with my hobby. I've been making flavoured sugar washes on charred oak for some time, using turbo yeast. I saw your video on birdwatchers wash, worth a try. Also, the 'cooked' vs 'raw charred' oak, and blending them from this video is inspiring. Also want to try a corn mash instead of sugar sometime. Thanks for all the great info. Best wishes
Absolute pleasure man. Glad the vids help.
Definitly give it a go. That UJSSM is a easy way into something else :)
Jesse, what are your thoughts on saponification? there are many discussions about proofing down slowly to avoid such disgrace, my first batch went smooth, which I cannot say the same with the second which tastes like a f. softner
charred/toasted dust may have caused ?
I also did not wait to cool down to proof down for the second time.
Thoughts?
If you want to speed up the process after you put the charred oak into it then put it in the freezer for 24hrs then on a candle warmer for 24hrs then repeat the process several times or until you get the flavor you want.
You are a scientist!
Greetings from Argentina, I am a craft distiller and craft maltster.
Very good video
In what percentage would you say that the Nuclear Ageing in microwave manages to soften the itch in the tongue of young alcohol?
Thank you
did a liter using chips of American white oak (27g for a liter of alcohol 60%), toasted in 220c for 2:30 - used a single cycle of nuclear - result is REALLY good! (used cane alchool though). added 2 tea spoons of honey to help on getting rid of the bad volatiles.
I will test with corn alcohol soon. I am very happy with the first results.
BTW color went similar to your 2nd jar left-right (my chips are more of flakes instead)
have you thought about infusing the wood with some sherry and then putting those pieces in the shine to get a sherry cask finish?
Do you have a video showing you charring the oak? On your wood preparation video it only goes through the 3 toasts.
Hey Jessy, Does the oak need to be toasted or can you just put raw oak into the spirit?
Have you eve tried a sous vide method of aging? I do infusion like making your Vanilla extract and it works great. I just put vanilla pods right in the bottle and seal it up and then in a sous vide bath at 130f for 5 hours and done.
Could you do something similar using sous vide bath? Is the heated temp critical?
Do you have a chart on the wood to flavour profile, and what kind of wood do you recommend for a beginner thank you.
Wonder how putting the jars into a ultrasonic cleaner and letting the ultrasonic waves do the infusion would be
How do i get my tequila to tast like store bought? I am not getting the tequila taste even though i am using 100% blue agave and tequila yeast? Should i scorch some of the nectar before fermenting? I do a double distillation.
Is it possible to get similar results if you do it like canning instead of using the micro
Hi, what is the abv of your alcohol? We can warm up to 60 degrees and repeat the process 3-4 times.
So, i like your mess behind you ,true laboratory ,i see you doing a lot of experimentation there. Cheers ,and have fun.
As for those bubbles... it's due to the heat in your wood vaporizing any residual moisture and the vapor rising causing a moment of exchange where the alcohol therein enters in place of the vapors in your wood. That alcohol can't wait to move in.
How did your mixes come out. 1 part each #2 and 3 would probably be good. Also try taking woods #2 (medium) and #3 (highest bake temp)baked woods and then char them for a more complex flavor!
How much alcohol is lost from the absorption of the chips? Can you squeeze the chips like limes to get a more concentrated flavor and save that loss of alcohol?
Just thinking. Putting the jars in a double boiler until temperature. I am going to give the oaking a try
Now mix all four together!!!!!
I wondered the same thing Sman.
I was told that the microwave did a better job than just heat. But I can varify that through personal trial. The other idea that was thrown around was heating from the inside etc.
Good idea. I'm thinking a water recirculator / sous vide stick would work well too
Jeremy MacGregor I’m going do same say every 24 hours ish to save lekky do some cooking too have you tried leaving lids on I’m going to use whiskey bottles or kilner jars
Safer to use canning boiler and immerse jars into hot water. That's the way preserve jars are meant to be used.
What kind of water is what u use to temp it down to 40%?
What is the difference tastewise between nuclear ageing and oak infusion?
What will happen if wood chips from different varieties of trees is added?
so..here's a question. Do you loose any alcohol by heating in the microwave to accelerate aging? I'm assuming not because the heat doesn't go above 60 degrees C. I'm just starting with home distillation and I make my own charred oak chips ( because I have access to loads of Oak offcuts for free)...I'm using an Air Still as a beginner, and double distilling taking cuts on the second distillation as per your videos ( which are great). Is there any advantage using a copper parrot on the second distillation to help with purification?
Did you keep any of your favorite blend?, if so how about a blurp after couple years of aging
If you are trying to get a consistent temperature for the quick aging, could you use a sous vide for this instead of microwaving it?
Definitely. I have just been doing it in the sink with the hot tap lately.
I was just about to ask the same!
Obviously more to do with microwaves than heat
@@StillIt have a video on this water / freezing technique?
@@StillIt I know i'm comming in late!
You could just simply use a cooler. Keeps the temperature in for a long time!
Right temp or 2 degrees higher to compensate for time. I cook stakes like that... cheap...
I wonder what would happen if you put some in a vacuum chamber instead of heating. Similar to how wood is stabilized with resin
I'm a complete newbie at all of this and have just been watching your videos to learn more about the hobby. Can you explain more about the jar lids and what about them you shouldn't be using?
I came to the comments looking for an explanation about that too.
Finally finished the video definitely going to try this with my George Washington rye. Why did you use the plastic lids? I'm planning on using mason jars with the metal lids. Also did you put your jars on a carousel in the micro wave or were they stationary? As always a great video thanks for all you do. Cheers
Cool man!
Only used them because I really wanted 4 "identical" containers.
Mason Jars have a plastic lining inside their lid, too. Best check that out!
on a scale of Pendleton to Crown, which was closer to a Crown taste? I have friends that like Pendleton, I like Crown. I have just started brewing and would like to make my own Crown Royal type whiskey. A starting point a little more narrowed would be nice. Thanks to whom ever answers this.
hi jessie, love what your doing gonna give it a go ! just wondering if you put the wood in before or after you dilute the product ?
best wishes from ireland
I normally age in the 50-60% range. So if it comes out of blending around there cool, if not I'll drop it down. Then again to bottle strength after it's done with the wood.
ta for the reply Jessie
I always did mine at 40 percent
I char sticks of red oak and put them in a gallon. Then roll them everyday! For two weeks..i see them bubbles come off the sticks after i roll.. Wonder if something else is going on .
I would like to suggest using a Sous Vide machine and water bath to bring your mixtures up to temp next time
If you had a gazillion bucks, you could do a large number of accelerated solvent extractions (ASE) using a Thremo ASE unit. These instruments use a sealed stainless steel “bomb” capsule filled with your material of choice and a high pressure and temperature injection system to extract various organic compounds from that material. We use them at the laboratory where I work to extract organic contaminants like flame retardants and lipophilic chemicals from fish tissue, soil, sewage sludge, etc. You can use any number of different solvents including ethanol to extract your compounds of choose. You can also set the extraction temperature and even set up a ramping routine with different temperatures. The ASE would work fantastic for your experimenting, perhaps too well though as its a very aggressive extraction. You can set it up to operate automatically and walk away. Come back later and you have a set of 12 different extractions. Here is a link to a YoiuTube video about two different older models of ASE. The video predates the acquisition of Dionex by Thermo Scientific so bear in mind it is very dated, but the principles of operation are the same.
th-cam.com/video/8DPLCVuugzY/w-d-xo.html
That's awesome man. Have seen other home distillers replicating this, but didn't know the origin.
I don't know the origin of this process. There is a known distiller Brian Davis who has a process similar (if not the same, I am sure he holds the process a bit of a secret) to this. It seems he has refined it on a whole level in of itself. @@StillIt
I usually blend flavors I like then let it sit for at least 2 days before finalizing my results. I make at least 2 blends and let them sit. Nice vids.
Cheers for the tips! I need some more practice with gin!
Heat expanded the wood releasing the oil and gas. (Bubbles) And allows for absorption of the alcohol. I heat my jars in a pot then let cool down, then put in freezer over night. Then repeat till I get the flavor I want. The heat expands the wood, and the cold shrinks the wood forcing the alcohol back out of the wood and the goodness with it.
Awesome. I need to try the pot way some time as well.
Still It so many possibilities, that's what's great about the"chase the craft"
Man that is awesome. It looks like a great way to also get an idea of what other woods would do to whiskey. Speaking of which. Have you ever tried using a different wood than oak to influence your whiskey?
Cheers man. Yeah was good for me to be able to taste those flavours separately. Not yet my man. I really want to though!
Going to try Apple,cherrie & plum wood... just to see.