Hi and thanks for tuning in! Our TH-cam channel was recently switched to a brand account from a personal one and some past comments were lost as a result. Please ask any questions you have and we’ll get to them as quickly as possible, thanks again for watching and please don’t forget to hit like, subscribe, and enjoy!
In the uphill portion (th-cam.com/video/E5-IehBhEJo/w-d-xo.html) the instructor says he's heavy on the brakes. What does braking accomplish when you're going uphill?
I am in the manual camp for sure. Something not mentioned in your video is that a manual can be started if you battery is low or dead. This is not that uncommon when you are off roading and using a winch or other electrical sources when in the back country. Easier to repair Lighter weight Doesn't over heat light automatics
If you injure a leg or an arm your screwed. I broke my arm and had to drive stick. It was AWFUL!!!! something doing things that only require 1 hand and 1 arm is an advantage
I like my manual truck. Speeding while keeping at low rpm to save gas or speed up with high rpm (downshift) to easily overtake. Will stop on a middle of steep climb (plains, rocks, snow, you name it) and resume without backing (by pedal combination) or intentionally back up a little to scare the car behind(it's fun every time) and keep them from sniffing your ars. You can also play the throttle just to hear her prrrrrr. etc. etc. you can also keep it from borrowers cause most people doesn't really know how to drive it. Manual trans=100% control and it needs SKILLS to optimize performance even beyond the limit. Not because you're older means you know better. Skill is like a talent not everyone have it.
Automatic is definitely better for rock crawling. People always hate on me but when’s the last time you seen a pro using a manual. Auto with shift kit would me cool though
How about the modern automatic gear boxes that allow you shift gear any time you want? Won't that eliminate the drawback in the automatic transmission you mentioned?
Two things not talked about in this video that are benefits of having an autobox while are offroad are that the automatic is much kinder mechanically to the drivetrain components when wheels are slipping and gripping. All that slip-and-grip action tends to get absorbed by the torque converter and not transferred into the iron. The second item is that the torque converter can act as a secondary gear reduction box in a way that slipping the clutch on a manual can, only without damaging or burning out the clutch. Yes, you have to watch your trans oil temps, but it can be danged handy when you're in 1st low crawling uphill.
jhk768234dfg thats why you get dual transfer cases and differential gearing. You lose a lot of power and traction through the torque converter in am autobox.
autos give more torque than a manual, why do you think 1st gear is like 3.5 to 1 on autos and 5.5 to 1 on a manual, the torque converter can give you as much as 3 to 1 torque multiplication giving an auto with 3.5 to 1 first 10.5 to 1 gear ratio, the numbers may be different on different vehicles, but the point is all torque converters give multiplication
samus989 well what car are you talking about. Its true they do hold up better in new cars, but in older cars like these the autos are total. Garbage that's why everyone swaps them out for manuals
It sounds like the best solution is a paddle shift, manual shift automatic and an easily accessible emergence brake lever, or perhaps dedicated emergency brake pedal where the clutch peddle would be, since most "engine braking" would involve the rear wheels. Or, why not just ride the brake down? It's not like there's a danger of overheating them in those conditions.
xXSUPREMEOMEGAXx I started to legally drive at 14. loved my 78 scout ii. 345 v8 factory diff lockers. and an auto. they should have also touched on whether it was in hi or low range. having had 4x4's with both trans, gear range makes them act differently. also engine displacement has an effect on engine braking.
I drive up a steep and slippery and rough hill every time going home. With automatic transmission it was very easy to control speed during ascend (down to zero) which helps a lot in negotiating obstacles with a car staying in one piece. But after my wife rolled over going downhill (disadvantage of automatic) we bought manual which is much much harder to bring up: I either need to drive fast over all the holes not to let engine stall or burn a clutch (which I did the first day) trying to keep speed slow enough.
I've off-roaded all my life and have always found autoboxes to be the best. It's all about throttle/brake control. Try going from snow to sand to rocks in a manual, stuck every time. 1. Have you ever tried shifting gears on sand, buried first shift!!! 2. Have you ever tried crawling up a rock without rolling back, double pedaling brake and throttle with left foot clutch almost impossible. 3. Have you ever tried climbing a snowy hill from the base and get into second gear without spinning out. The autobox can be manually shifted from first to second to gain your momentum. Call me a 14 year old keyboard warrior all you want but with 30 years experience guess I'm just someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Cheers and don't take this as a rant but a little more insight of actually thinking about all the different terrain advantages of an autobox.
Learn how to drive. You don't need to use all three pedals in 1st-low regardless of slope. Hold clutch lightly at friction with the left, then transition from brake to gas with the right foot. Zero movement of the truck even at stupid angles. Perfect control. I do enjoy people who do not have much manual experience claiming they do though. That's shit I learned when I was 16
While respectful of your 30 years experience, I disagree with you regarding snow and sand. I've driven in predominantly sand, snow, and mud when I offroad, and it's really not that bad. You just have to be a quick shifter. Rocks, I must admit, are very difficult in a manual without really low gearing. If you have something like 5.13's with 33's or smaller tires, you're not going to have any issues on rocks, but with anything else, you're going to have a little harder time not rolling back. Concerning the snow, I disagree because you can start out nice and slow in 2nd gear in a manual, whereas you can't start out in an automatic in second gear. Although you can baby an automatic easier because of the torque converter slippage, I've been driving a manual the entire time I've had a driver's license and have never had any issues in snow. It's all about finesse and knowing your vehicle's clutch engaging point well.
Never had issues shifting in the sand. just shift quick. i've got an NV3500 so it's easy to do. if u have an NV4500 or other slower shifting trans then maybe you could have more issues.
My grandfather had a '71 D100 2wd longbed with a 318 and the torque flight automatic. He was able to get into a lot of places he shouldn't have been trying to get to with that truck and proper tires. Compared to his buddies with 4wd manuals. I can see the advantages of a manual. But I prefer the automatic for ease of use (I do know how to drive manual and love rowing through gears), because I'm not as experienced.
A good presentation with very similar Cherokees over the same trails to minimize other variables. Thanks! It should be noted that the 5-speed manual gives you a taller cruising gear on the paved road that takes you to the trail-head - not a small advantage!
BTW, rather then 20+ year old designs, how about pitting one of Toyota's TRD trucks against each other as one can still order a manual transmission for one and order the other with their more modern automatic? They have a select-a-gear holding feature that allows down-shifting for descents or holding in a selected gear for other off-road needs. Though I prefer manuals, I've driven newer Toy's with this transmission and found little to fault.
I drive a manual FJ as a daily and weekend toy. My buddy drives an auto and at almost every obstacle he will have a much smoother time going through it. A modern auto will beat a manual everyday offroad and with new designs on a drag, But i will always say that a manual is a lot more fun to ride. Just something about connecting with your vehicle.
@@onefastcyclist I know this is an old comment but... here's a video of a manual and automatic Modern Toyotas trucks off roading :) th-cam.com/video/jy1joyWcRCc/w-d-xo.html
@@jhunt6943 agreed... I had a manual Wrangler and loved the connection, but hated stalling while crawling. My Xterra has hill climb assist (only available in automatic) which is quite helpful
I don't mind 4 wheeling with either. Choosing the right gear is the key, waiting till you are flying down a hill with the wheels locked up is a bit too late to worry about shifting LOL.
I've owned a '98 Wrangler Sport (manual) and currently an '06 Xterra Offroad (automatic). I'll gladly take the performance of the automatic transmission and accompanying technology (slip control, lockers, brake lock) over a manual Jeep. The X does have "descent control" but I've only used it a couple times, just to see what it did... and I prefer just dropping it into 4L and/or downshifting for heading downhill. I've driven both offroad in the mountains in Colorado and hands-down the Xterra does better. But the automatic Xterra has much better technology (in my opinion) than the Jeep XJs or '98 TJ Sport so it's not really a fair comparison. There is, however, a testosterone fueled machismo associated with this discussion and you can see it throughout the comments. "Real men drive standards"... and here we are... making videos to identify the shortcomings of an automatic transmission over a standard. My response to that is... real men drive what they want and don't need to "size" each other up.
I love manual but only thing with this is rock climbing and uphill rock climbing its super hard and tricky before that you need to master the clutch control and it also wear your clutch alot faster you need to mod it up with a heavy duty clutch and you foot and knee will also hurt like hell if you're doing it for whole day for long time
So on trails you use the brake as your throttle in a way. You hold the brake and rev the engine. Slowly let off your brake while holding that rev. It's called trail braking. It prevents you slamming on the gas on a bump.
My work truck is a Ford F-350 and drive on dirt roads and mtns all the time tow mode and has gear select buttons on the column shifter works great for engine braking
there are some small tweaks you can do that make up for the problems you mentioned, and there is a company that makes a shift controller that allows you to lock the auto transmission into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, good video though, and decent information for new buyers
automatic, add proper shift kit, gearing can help, as can upgrading the transfer case used. ive had both jeeps in auto and manual, and a commanche and an amc eagle, and a ford hi boy in automatic, swapped 360 for fresh 390, built stroker inline 6 engines for most of the jeeps. the additional power made it better down hill either transmission used, more powerful engines do make the torque converter work more efficiently. the 4.5 liter stroker was cheap to build, and parts were everywhere. more powerful, feels sorta like a small block. worth the time.
What about new automatic transmissions that you can put into specific gears? Ford has a 10 speed auto now that does a lot of engine breaking. does the new jeep automatic transmission not slow you down and stay in specific gear?
Auto all the way I've off-roaded both and auto is just so much easier. The biggest thing by far is with a manual when you are in first gear and trying to crawl up hill you need to feather the gas and the clutch so you don't stall and also feather the breaks on dips and rocks which is almost impossible unless you can heal toe like a rally driver. In an auto all you have to worry about is giving it gas when you want to and breaking when you want to. You don't have to worry about stalling you don't have to worry about over Reving and spinning your tires and getting stuck you don't have to worry about bogging down in a higher gear when slowing down. What a lot of people don't realize is their is a lot of control and effort that goes into serious off-roading and theirs a lot to do at one time. So if theirs anything you can do to lower the amount of activities you have to do all at once it's always for the better
I think the bolder climbers prefer the automatic, but as for me I much prefer a manual as I am more engaged with the car. I think in many circumstances an automatic may do better, and I know I'll make some mistakes driving the manual. But they're my mistakes and that's part of the deal being more involved with the vehicle.
well in the army l driven both and predictability of a manual wins me over every time but the automatic wins on easy of use for the average driver first time off road BUT the experienced off road driver will pick the manual for complete control of said 4x4 ing not to mention more robust powertrain afford by a manual .
well l will add if one prefers auto box l recommend and older one that s mechanical vs electronic ,generally older C6 turbo 400 or 727 torque flight are pretty stout old school autos l m not as familiar with anything newer as of yet but l hear 700R from GM are pretty good from what l ve read BUT there s any you know of please share
any more Cherokee manual vs automatic videos on the way by any chance? I've been debating switching from an automatic to a manual for what I do because I have to run low range and it bangs off the rev limiter before shifting with automatic.
MidnightMadness4x4 use the gates on the auto and shift it before banging it off... idk how you even do that lol. Must be raising hell because ixve never had a shortage of power with the 4.0 and the low af low range..
That is in 4 Low, we use Advance Adapters transfer case levers + linkage which are much beefier than stock, but yeah it looks different than the normal one.
I would agree automatics are far more easier to drive than a standard off road. For me it's no challenge with an auto. I like a challenge. I've had a lot of Cherokees and the last few I've built plus my current build I 5 speed swapped. Driving a manual off-road is an awesome experience and that's all I'll ever want. I love to have complete control of the gears, rpm range, speed, braking, all that. I drove manuals since I was 16. I'm so used to it that I gag when driving an auto. My love for having a standard off road began with owning a yj. Everything I drive is manual almost lol. My car is a manual, my Jeep is a manual, and my truck is currently getting 5 speed swapped once I get enough money for a clutch and flywheel.
What’s it like to swap a XJ auto to a 5 speed? I’ve missed my 95 2 door sport from high school. (Got rear ended totaled) been looking an dang there just isn’t any 5 speed manuals out there.
I say manual the only thing that sucks about a manual is that if u start on a hill u can get roll back but other then that it's better. I have a 1996 f150 300 i6 it's a 5 speed I haul a lot with it and some off road cuz I fish and hunt but a lot of my off-road is done on my atv it's a Honda rincon 680 so i use it usually
Like that the XJs that you use at the school are basically stock with roll cages. That's cool. As a relatively new XJ owner I'd love to do some off-road training with the rally school and these XJs. In your opinion what is the advantages and disadvantages of the roll cages you use in these XJs? Do you think that the XJ needs this level of reinforcement? Or is it more for insurance/safety considerations for use with the rally school?
XJs don't have a frame like 98% of other vehicles. the roll cage will stiffen up the unibody and act like a pseudo-frame. that said, i don't have a cage in mine...yet.
In the automatic how does it not keep it in 1st gear if you leave it in first gear ? In my auto land cruiser in steep hills going down I leave it in first and it stays in first and doesn’t want to run away
That's weird in my 1995 automatic, when going down hill! I put it in gear 1 an put it in 4 wheel low it acts the same as the manual an doesn't fall down the hill it catches the whole way... Are you also in low or high?
Well I've owned 3 xjs were automatic and there automatics are really good but xjs don't like hills but the manual makes it better,. It's more fun off road and coming down a mtn it's nice to engine break instead of roasting the breaks. Haven't tested the dunes yet hopefully in a week or so have some work to do to it.
I am with the auto...Were you in 4 low? going down that hill. I believe 1st gear on a 4 or 5 speed is lower than 1st gear on an 3 or 4 speed auto..the best part of an automatic is when i am going up a hill, all i have to do is let off the brake, no feathering and 3 toed or heel toe clutching, to get going, though I am good at it. I have had two identical rigs at the same time. both scouts. both 4x4's had positrac rear ends. one a stick the other an auto.The stick was always at a disadvantage. I never found any time where the stick shift offered any advantage in extreme off road conditions. like rocking your self out of a hole. The auto was way better in snow, on the highway in snow it is superior hands down. My dad had jeeps it had a 3 speed. We changed that clutch ever summer after visiting the dunes. The simple answer to the question, which is better? is simple. what do you like. My dad liked shifting, he was a truck driver. I am not; I used to like shifting when My 400 4 speed camaro drove me to high school. now I prefer to hold my coffee cup while I idle along the Cat trails after the first snow instead of the shifter knob.
3:39 i have been using the L gear and 1,2 gear ⚙ even on my tractor, it's a good trick, byt what if Engine brakes fail? And then Engine breaks? And you are going down hill... is it good to throttle it a bit when going down hill right?
any tips on not burning the clutch in a manual when im in deep snow or mud ? should i rev it up and dump the clutch? because when i ease into it i start burning the clutch any tips would be great thanks !
I have a Nissan Xterra 4 wheel drive 6 speed manual and I do a lot of off-roading and I would not have it any other way. Yes you do have to work the clutch a little more but you have a lot more control and a lot more torque than a lousy automatic for off roading
Why do you need to apply brakes and throttle at the same time? I understand this when it's used on racing and rallying, but why on snow uphills going slow? Thank you for the video.
From my experience with heavy equipment, it locks up the drivetrain and limits the wheel spin. Ironically I've also found that it stabilizes the vehicle over rough stuff too. I'm sure the guys here can provide better feedback.
One reason going downhill or just on a slippery flat surface is that you can lock up the tires easily while braking because there is no torque being applied. But if you're on the brakes and add a little bit of gas, it adds some torque and resistance so the brakes are less likely to lock. Team O'Neil did another video on this sort of thing a few months ago I believe where they were doing braking tests in the snow
Thanks for all the replies. I've had quite some experiences on very steep snow uphills. I shall practice this. Once I had old winter tires and I got stranded at the very top of the hill. Slowly started to slide downhill and boy it was scary. (very steep, like unable to see the road from the hood kind of steep) My oldest car has a very bad diff I think, even in the rain the left tire has a tendency to spin a lot and it's unstable on turns. On very snowy days it can even change direction of travel. (torque steer but 3 times more than normal). I can break using left foot and next year when it snows I will try the difference. Thanks for all the replies again, very informative. Edit: all my cars are manual.
My 88 five speed Cherokee with the 4.0L was awesome, when you manually turned the 4x4 on My 96 Cherokee 4.0L HO automatic was very capable tho, but less easy to control.
I wonder the same thing... honestly i own a manual f-150 that i love off roading very much but i think its mostly a preference thing, both can work well in offroad situations
I’ve had a manual and auto TJ. The manual is more fun for the street but loses in every situation to the automatic off-road. Manual is less forgiving to the rest of the drivetrain. Mechanical connection between the crank and axles bounces you around while driving over trails with lots of baby-head sized rocks. The vent at the bottom of the bell-housing allows grit and muddy water to get between the surfaces of the clutch and accelerate wear. My auto had 4:1 gearing in the t-case so engine braking was never an issue. Auto also allows you to seamlessly shift through all of the gears if you find yourself half way up a slick climb and need some more wheel speed.
Taylor Mallory I own both. Both are fun. Do you want to focus and play hard impressing the boys? Do it in the manual. Do you want to take a pair of tits out on the trail and not embarrass yourself stalling or missing a gear/pedal? Use the auto. Once you're really good, neither is significantly better. It's an xj. Anything the other can't get up is really suited for the tube frame anyway.
skeetorkiftwon i had both at one point but my first XJ was a 5 speed. Second was a automatic. The automatic was much easier lol. Unfortunately that one caught fire. Still offroading the 5 speed, not trying to " impress the bois " just prefer that for the better mpg overall..
I think there's something wrong with your auto jeep, my aw4 works awesome keeping my jeep under control when stuck in first gear low range downhill, also I use high range to keep wheelspin down sometimes
I've done lots of xj offroading, and all though I love standard trans for a lot of things, auto seems to be the best fit for put it In drive and just go, anywhere, plus you have a free hand for your off road soda
How about the same comparison when both cars have a low range 4wd system? It _seems_ like the low range overcomes some of the problems of the automatic wanting to go downhill without getting engine braking; also going faster than you would like to go in the manual, you can go pretty darn slow in low range & not have to worry about the engine stalling or anything. Just a thought. You might get too much torque and increase wheel spin I suppose...
When going downhill with conventional auto in 4 low mode you need to bring it to a rev in low gear only then the engine bracking comes in. If you just let the in low gear while going downhill the engine bracking will only comes with the speed.
I just can't get on board with an auto. I've had nothing but problems with the unpredictability of an auto transmission and lack of control on and off the road.
Hi and thanks for tuning in! Our TH-cam channel was recently switched to a brand account from a personal one and some past comments were lost as a result. Please ask any questions you have and we’ll get to them as quickly as possible, thanks again for watching and please don’t forget to hit like, subscribe, and enjoy!
Team O'Neil Rally School Where are you guys located at? It would be awesome if there was a rally school where I live.
In the uphill portion (th-cam.com/video/E5-IehBhEJo/w-d-xo.html) the instructor says he's heavy on the brakes. What does braking accomplish when you're going uphill?
What the setup ok those xj’s? Lift and tire size?
Love how you 2 compared exact. Same model and everything. Roll cages and all. Exact same vehicle just different drivetrain. Good work guys.
* transmission
@@lscstudios4637 thank you, I was just about to say that
That's true! Fair and square comparison
My truck is 2wd wtf am I watching this for lol
entertainment
and knowledge
Dreaming is valid
Because your truck wants to be a 4x4 when it grows up
So you know what to do when you get a 4wd
I am in the manual camp for sure.
Something not mentioned in your video is that a manual can be started if you battery is low or dead. This is not that uncommon when you are off roading and using a winch or other electrical sources when in the back country.
Easier to repair
Lighter weight
Doesn't over heat light automatics
And if it breaks, in most cases you are still mobile. Been there few times. LOL
If u misshift or get injured you won't be enjoying it especially remote locations.
If you injure a leg or an arm your screwed.
I broke my arm and had to drive stick.
It was AWFUL!!!!
something doing things that only require 1 hand and 1 arm is an advantage
Rock crawling in a manual and stalling is a big problem
missshift? What does that even mean lol@@mann_idonotreadreplies
I like my manual truck. Speeding while keeping at low rpm to save gas or speed up with high rpm (downshift) to easily overtake. Will stop on a middle of steep climb (plains, rocks, snow, you name it) and resume without backing (by pedal combination) or intentionally back up a little to scare the car behind(it's fun every time) and keep them from sniffing your ars. You can also play the throttle just to hear her prrrrrr. etc. etc. you can also keep it from borrowers cause most people doesn't really know how to drive it.
Manual trans=100% control and it needs SKILLS to optimize performance even beyond the limit. Not because you're older means you know better. Skill is like a talent not everyone have it.
I'm 15 and getting a jeep cherokee 5 speed for my first vehicle there arent many kids my age driving stick
Cherokee93 literally everyone I know drive manuals, I’m 16 and good for you my friend hope you will enjoy it
@@toadfullya3558 i got an auto but i will get a manual i still know how drive stick tho
@@CopperheadGarage my XJ is 5 speed but turbo diesel. 😁 I had both but I have much more fun with manual.
@@V8AmericanMuscleCar what country are you from ive never seen a turbo diesel Cherokee in America
Automatic is definitely better for rock crawling. People always hate on me but when’s the last time you seen a pro using a manual. Auto with shift kit would me cool though
no need for shift kit anymore, autos are all electric
@@Dexter_Solid You can get a proper 4x4 manual with a crawler gear. Gives you more control of your speed and wheel torque than an automatic.
The classic rock crawlers with this Hilux’s were all manual and they did one hell of a job
Bro with a Toyota Hilux and dual transfer case I'm sure manual would be just as good if not better
2:10 You can use low gears and stay in 1st gear. You can go REALLY slow without touching the clutch.
Trump!
Wow thank you so much! I recently bought a manual XJ and was not sure if it was the right choice. This cleared it up. Thank you so much.
I had both and I prefer manual, more fun for me. 😁
How about the modern automatic gear boxes that allow you shift gear any time you want? Won't that eliminate the drawback in the automatic transmission you mentioned?
The majority of automatic transmissions in off road cars have 1, 2 or 3 modes, in order not to shift gears in unappropriate situations
Two things not talked about in this video that are benefits of having an autobox while are offroad are that the automatic is much kinder mechanically to the drivetrain components when wheels are slipping and gripping. All that slip-and-grip action tends to get absorbed by the torque converter and not transferred into the iron. The second item is that the torque converter can act as a secondary gear reduction box in a way that slipping the clutch on a manual can, only without damaging or burning out the clutch. Yes, you have to watch your trans oil temps, but it can be danged handy when you're in 1st low crawling uphill.
jhk768234dfg thats why you get dual transfer cases and differential gearing. You lose a lot of power and traction through the torque converter in am autobox.
autos give more torque than a manual, why do you think 1st gear is like 3.5 to 1 on autos and 5.5 to 1 on a manual, the torque converter can give you as much as 3 to 1 torque multiplication giving an auto with 3.5 to 1 first 10.5 to 1 gear ratio, the numbers may be different on different vehicles, but the point is all torque converters give multiplication
Mitchell Halvorson hurts to get proven wrong huh?
samus989 well what car are you talking about. Its true they do hold up better in new cars, but in older cars like these the autos are total. Garbage that's why everyone swaps them out for manuals
The problem with autos is the are boring as hell to drive. Lmao
I don't even have a truck just enjoyed watching this lol Thanks for comparing the exact models as well.
It sounds like the best solution is a paddle shift, manual shift automatic and an easily accessible emergence brake lever, or perhaps dedicated emergency brake pedal where the clutch peddle would be, since most "engine braking" would involve the rear wheels. Or, why not just ride the brake down? It's not like there's a danger of overheating them in those conditions.
Did I hear that Automatics can be better than Manuals? Watch out here come the testosterone fueled 14 year old key board warriors
14 year old keyboard warriors lol ?!?! they can't even drive until they 18 maybe in USA they can.
Rene Grondzi since when did not being able to drive stop them?.....
xXSUPREMEOMEGAXx I started to legally drive at 14. loved my 78 scout ii. 345 v8 factory diff lockers. and an auto.
they should have also touched on whether it was in hi or low range. having had 4x4's with both trans, gear range makes them act differently. also engine displacement has an effect on engine braking.
Rene, they could if it has an automatic transmission.
I drive up a steep and slippery and rough hill every time going home. With automatic transmission it was very easy to control speed during ascend (down to zero) which helps a lot in negotiating obstacles with a car staying in one piece. But after my wife rolled over going downhill (disadvantage of automatic) we bought manual which is much much harder to bring up: I either need to drive fast over all the holes not to let engine stall or burn a clutch (which I did the first day) trying to keep speed slow enough.
I've off-roaded all my life and have always found autoboxes to be the best. It's all about throttle/brake control. Try going from snow to sand to rocks in a manual, stuck every time.
1. Have you ever tried shifting gears on sand, buried first shift!!!
2. Have you ever tried crawling up a rock without rolling back, double pedaling brake and throttle with left foot clutch almost impossible.
3. Have you ever tried climbing a snowy hill from the base and get into second gear without spinning out. The autobox can be manually shifted from first to second to gain your momentum.
Call me a 14 year old keyboard warrior all you want but with 30 years experience guess I'm just someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Cheers and don't take this as a rant but a little more insight of actually thinking about all the different terrain advantages of an autobox.
Lol
Learn how to drive. You don't need to use all three pedals in 1st-low regardless of slope. Hold clutch lightly at friction with the left, then transition from brake to gas with the right foot. Zero movement of the truck even at stupid angles. Perfect control.
I do enjoy people who do not have much manual experience claiming they do though. That's shit I learned when I was 16
While respectful of your 30 years experience, I disagree with you regarding snow and sand. I've driven in predominantly sand, snow, and mud when I offroad, and it's really not that bad. You just have to be a quick shifter.
Rocks, I must admit, are very difficult in a manual without really low gearing. If you have something like 5.13's with 33's or smaller tires, you're not going to have any issues on rocks, but with anything else, you're going to have a little harder time not rolling back.
Concerning the snow, I disagree because you can start out nice and slow in 2nd gear in a manual, whereas you can't start out in an automatic in second gear. Although you can baby an automatic easier because of the torque converter slippage, I've been driving a manual the entire time I've had a driver's license and have never had any issues in snow. It's all about finesse and knowing your vehicle's clutch engaging point well.
Never had issues shifting in the sand. just shift quick. i've got an NV3500 so it's easy to do. if u have an NV4500 or other slower shifting trans then maybe you could have more issues.
RedneckRickem or maybe you just don't know how to drive standar
When rock-crawling in a manual, if you stall out, you are screwed.
1978 Called and asked what hill descent control, ABS, locking torque converters, and computers were.
My grandfather had a '71 D100 2wd longbed with a 318 and the torque flight automatic. He was able to get into a lot of places he shouldn't have been trying to get to with that truck and proper tires. Compared to his buddies with 4wd manuals. I can see the advantages of a manual. But I prefer the automatic for ease of use (I do know how to drive manual and love rowing through gears), because I'm not as experienced.
A good presentation with very similar Cherokees over the same trails to minimize other variables. Thanks! It should be noted that the 5-speed manual gives you a taller cruising gear on the paved road that takes you to the trail-head - not a small advantage!
BTW, rather then 20+ year old designs, how about pitting one of Toyota's TRD trucks against each other as one can still order a manual transmission for one and order the other with their more modern automatic? They have a select-a-gear holding feature that allows down-shifting for descents or holding in a selected gear for other off-road needs. Though I prefer manuals, I've driven newer Toy's with this transmission and found little to fault.
I drive a manual FJ as a daily and weekend toy. My buddy drives an auto and at almost every obstacle he will have a much smoother time going through it. A modern auto will beat a manual everyday offroad and with new designs on a drag, But i will always say that a manual is a lot more fun to ride. Just something about connecting with your vehicle.
@@onefastcyclist I know this is an old comment but... here's a video of a manual and automatic Modern Toyotas trucks off roading :)
th-cam.com/video/jy1joyWcRCc/w-d-xo.html
@@jhunt6943 agreed... I had a manual Wrangler and loved the connection, but hated stalling while crawling. My Xterra has hill climb assist (only available in automatic) which is quite helpful
I don't mind 4 wheeling with either. Choosing the right gear is the key, waiting till you are flying down a hill with the wheels locked up is a bit too late to worry about shifting LOL.
Love my 5-speed Cherokee. They're so hard to find because not many people but standards in the 90s.
Yep, I found a 99, love it
you can go slower on descents with a auto trans if you shift the TC into low range
I've owned a '98 Wrangler Sport (manual) and currently an '06 Xterra Offroad (automatic). I'll gladly take the performance of the automatic transmission and accompanying technology (slip control, lockers, brake lock) over a manual Jeep. The X does have "descent control" but I've only used it a couple times, just to see what it did... and I prefer just dropping it into 4L and/or downshifting for heading downhill.
I've driven both offroad in the mountains in Colorado and hands-down the Xterra does better. But the automatic Xterra has much better technology (in my opinion) than the Jeep XJs or '98 TJ Sport so it's not really a fair comparison.
There is, however, a testosterone fueled machismo associated with this discussion and you can see it throughout the comments. "Real men drive standards"... and here we are... making videos to identify the shortcomings of an automatic transmission over a standard. My response to that is... real men drive what they want and don't need to "size" each other up.
Alpha Male Comment 👍
So what if you had a manual Xterra, that was exactly the same as your automatic. Would it be a closer battle for you?
But, which one puts a bigger smile on your face when you drive it? I'm willing to bet the Jeep ;)
I agree. I drove a manual Jeep and mow have an automatic Xterra with hill descent and hill climb assist. It's helpful while climbing steep objects
I love manual but only thing with this is rock climbing and uphill rock climbing its super hard and tricky before that you need to master the clutch control and it also wear your clutch alot faster you need to mod it up with a heavy duty clutch and you foot and knee will also hurt like hell if you're doing it for whole day for long time
XJ is great car. We just have bought one and starting our drives with it!
Was he hitting the brake and the throttle at the same time or did I interpret that incorrectly?
So on trails you use the brake as your throttle in a way. You hold the brake and rev the engine. Slowly let off your brake while holding that rev. It's called trail braking. It prevents you slamming on the gas on a bump.
@@coopercox5270 Interesting. Thanks.
what about the newer boxes with Manual mode and paddles? They should hold the selected gear fairly reliably
My work truck is a Ford F-350 and drive on dirt roads and mtns all the time tow mode and has gear select buttons on the column shifter works great for engine braking
0:36 you had it in 2nd gear. 1st is over one spot. & in low range it will hold in first gear.
there are some small tweaks you can do that make up for the problems you mentioned, and there is a company that makes a shift controller that allows you to lock the auto transmission into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, good video though, and decent information for new buyers
automatic, add proper shift kit, gearing can help, as can upgrading the transfer case used. ive had both jeeps in auto and manual, and a commanche and an amc eagle, and a ford hi boy in automatic, swapped 360 for fresh 390, built stroker inline 6 engines for most of the jeeps. the additional power made it better down hill either transmission used, more powerful engines do make the torque converter work more efficiently. the 4.5 liter stroker was cheap to build, and parts were everywhere. more powerful, feels sorta like a small block. worth the time.
What about new automatic transmissions that you can put into specific gears? Ford has a 10 speed auto now that does a lot of engine breaking. does the new jeep automatic transmission not slow you down and stay in specific gear?
The auto in the xj cherokees are really good too
This must be an XJ owner thing. I can put both of my automatics in any gear I want.
Auto all the way I've off-roaded both and auto is just so much easier. The biggest thing by far is with a manual when you are in first gear and trying to crawl up hill you need to feather the gas and the clutch so you don't stall and also feather the breaks on dips and rocks which is almost impossible unless you can heal toe like a rally driver. In an auto all you have to worry about is giving it gas when you want to and breaking when you want to. You don't have to worry about stalling you don't have to worry about over Reving and spinning your tires and getting stuck you don't have to worry about bogging down in a higher gear when slowing down. What a lot of people don't realize is their is a lot of control and effort that goes into serious off-roading and theirs a lot to do at one time. So if theirs anything you can do to lower the amount of activities you have to do all at once it's always for the better
Especially if you have a radio in one hand
I think the bolder climbers prefer the automatic, but as for me I much prefer a manual as I am more engaged with the car. I think in many circumstances an automatic may do better, and I know I'll make some mistakes driving the manual. But they're my mistakes and that's part of the deal being more involved with the vehicle.
How do the auto transmissions hold up in bad mud. Looking at buying a 1999 for our hunting camp.
well in the army l driven both and predictability of a manual wins me over every time but the automatic wins on easy of use for the average driver first time off road BUT the experienced off road driver will pick the manual for complete control of said 4x4 ing not to mention more robust powertrain afford by a manual .
A lot of rock crawlers and snow wheelers choose the automatic. I can see where mudding or higher speed travel would be better with a 5 speed.
well l will add if one prefers auto box l recommend and older one that s mechanical vs electronic ,generally older C6 turbo 400 or 727 torque flight are pretty stout old school autos l m not as familiar with anything newer as of yet but l hear 700R from GM are pretty good from what l ve read BUT there s any you know of please share
richard carr well in iceland experienced off road drivers choose automatic in our super jeeps
Automatic transmissions can handle much more power and torque. Also, less wear and tear with no constantly slipping clutch.
Chris Woods autos handle more power? tell that to mercedes
Range selection and hill descent control on newer autos eliminate the two issues you guys were talking about
My Xterra also has hill climb assist which can be helpful
any more Cherokee manual vs automatic videos on the way by any chance? I've been debating switching from an automatic to a manual for what I do because I have to run low range and it bangs off the rev limiter before shifting with automatic.
MidnightMadness4x4 use the gates on the auto and shift it before banging it off... idk how you even do that lol.
Must be raising hell because ixve never had a shortage of power with the 4.0 and the low af low range..
MidnightMadness4x4 and i own both setups.
The manuals for uphill and downhill is so good especially in 4lo
Awesome video. Manual for life , Cheers!
I love my manual 99 XJ!
And what if your rig has downhill descent? How would that affect the choice between the two?
Really informative thanks!
It all comes down to personal preference if you like going fast (manual), if you like put-put around (automatic)
I feel like it's the same difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke dirtbike, you dont have to pin an automatic uphill which is a huge bonus
Keep my 97 automatic Jeep XJ. Mostly drive hwy an am not very good with a stick. Especially on hills in the city.
Practice makes perfect!
When going downhill in the auto, why was the t case not in 4-Lo?
That is in 4 Low, we use Advance Adapters transfer case levers + linkage which are much beefier than stock, but yeah it looks different than the normal one.
One point you missed is having an extra hand available with an automatic for navigation, communication, or drinking a beverage.
I would agree automatics are far more easier to drive than a standard off road. For me it's no challenge with an auto. I like a challenge. I've had a lot of Cherokees and the last few I've built plus my current build I 5 speed swapped. Driving a manual off-road is an awesome experience and that's all I'll ever want. I love to have complete control of the gears, rpm range, speed, braking, all that. I drove manuals since I was 16. I'm so used to it that I gag when driving an auto. My love for having a standard off road began with owning a yj. Everything I drive is manual almost lol. My car is a manual, my Jeep is a manual, and my truck is currently getting 5 speed swapped once I get enough money for a clutch and flywheel.
What’s it like to swap a XJ auto to a 5 speed? I’ve missed my 95 2 door sport from high school. (Got rear ended totaled) been looking an dang there just isn’t any 5 speed manuals out there.
We're can I get inner roll cage like that and what's the cost???????
A torque converter is just a work around for not having low range.
Why does the green XJ have ford bronco2 wheels?
Manual should be the only option in every vehicle. Car, truck, suv. If you can't drive manual get the fuck off the road
Automatic is probably better overall, but manual is more fun.
old people drive Automatics in my country.
I say manual the only thing that sucks about a manual is that if u start on a hill u can get roll back but other then that it's better. I have a 1996 f150 300 i6 it's a 5 speed I haul a lot with it and some off road cuz I fish and hunt but a lot of my off-road is done on my atv it's a Honda rincon 680 so i use it usually
Like that the XJs that you use at the school are basically stock with roll cages. That's cool. As a relatively new XJ owner I'd love to do some off-road training with the rally school and these XJs. In your opinion what is the advantages and disadvantages of the roll cages you use in these XJs? Do you think that the XJ needs this level of reinforcement? Or is it more for insurance/safety considerations for use with the rally school?
XJs don't have a frame like 98% of other vehicles. the roll cage will stiffen up the unibody and act like a pseudo-frame. that said, i don't have a cage in mine...yet.
Jason Argonauts cus unibody
That 4 litre in that manual Cherokee sounds so cool lol
In the automatic how does it not keep it in 1st gear if you leave it in first gear ? In my auto land cruiser in steep hills going down I leave it in first and it stays in first and doesn’t want to run away
Luckily hill descent control fixes some of the problems with automatics/cvts
That's weird in my 1995 automatic, when going down hill! I put it in gear 1 an put it in 4 wheel low it acts the same as the manual an doesn't fall down the hill it catches the whole way... Are you also in low or high?
I watched this when I was thinking about getting a new Wrangler and here I am just bought a manual xj instead lol
Observations so far?
Well I've owned 3 xjs were automatic and there automatics are really good but xjs don't like hills but the manual makes it better,. It's more fun off road and coming down a mtn it's nice to engine break instead of roasting the breaks. Haven't tested the dunes yet hopefully in a week or so have some work to do to it.
Is there any way i can get the plans for the role cage that you have in your car? Thank you
This is in snow. Some say their automatic will over heat if you go off road in the summer.
What size lift and tires are on these XJs?
Thank you for this!!
I am with the auto...Were you in 4 low? going down that hill. I believe 1st gear on a 4 or 5 speed is lower than 1st gear on an 3 or 4 speed auto..the best part of an automatic is when i am going up a hill, all i have to do is let off the brake, no feathering and 3 toed or heel toe clutching, to get going, though I am good at it. I have had two identical rigs at the same time. both scouts. both 4x4's had positrac rear ends. one a stick the other an auto.The stick was always at a disadvantage. I never found any time where the stick shift offered any advantage in extreme off road conditions. like rocking your self out of a hole. The auto was way better in snow, on the highway in snow it is superior hands down. My dad had jeeps it had a 3 speed. We changed that clutch ever summer after visiting the dunes. The simple answer to the question, which is better? is simple. what do you like. My dad liked shifting, he was a truck driver. I am not; I used to like shifting when My 400 4 speed camaro drove me to high school. now I prefer to hold my coffee cup while I idle along the Cat trails after the first snow instead of the shifter knob.
3:39 i have been using the L gear and 1,2 gear ⚙ even on my tractor, it's a good trick, byt what if Engine brakes fail? And then Engine breaks? And you are going down hill... is it good to throttle it a bit when going down hill right?
still haven't found anyone who put a military surplus Allison transmission in a jeep or other 4x4 of similar size.
You get the most control out of a geared dual transfer case and you don't even have to use the clutch cause it's so low geared
what is the lift size on those?
any tips on not burning the clutch in a manual when im in deep snow or mud ? should i rev it up and dump the clutch? because when i ease into it i start burning the clutch any tips would be great thanks !
I have a Nissan Xterra 4 wheel drive 6 speed manual and I do a lot of off-roading and I would not have it any other way. Yes you do have to work the clutch a little more but you have a lot more control and a lot more torque than a lousy automatic for off roading
Jay P. r ....
Jay P. i.i. o i , l
Why do you need to apply brakes and throttle at the same time? I understand this when it's used on racing and rallying, but why on snow uphills going slow?
Thank you for the video.
From my experience with heavy equipment, it locks up the drivetrain and limits the wheel spin. Ironically I've also found that it stabilizes the vehicle over rough stuff too. I'm sure the guys here can provide better feedback.
One reason going downhill or just on a slippery flat surface is that you can lock up the tires easily while braking because there is no torque being applied. But if you're on the brakes and add a little bit of gas, it adds some torque and resistance so the brakes are less likely to lock. Team O'Neil did another video on this sort of thing a few months ago I believe where they were doing braking tests in the snow
also it helps the torque to the wheel with traction if there is an open diff. poor mans locker.
Thanks for all the replies. I've had quite some experiences on very steep snow uphills. I shall practice this. Once I had old winter tires and I got stranded at the very top of the hill. Slowly started to slide downhill and boy it was scary. (very steep, like unable to see the road from the hood kind of steep)
My oldest car has a very bad diff I think, even in the rain the left tire has a tendency to spin a lot and it's unstable on turns. On very snowy days it can even change direction of travel. (torque steer but 3 times more than normal).
I can break using left foot and next year when it snows I will try the difference.
Thanks for all the replies again, very informative.
Edit: all my cars are manual.
+TeanONeilRally, did you present these advantages in a video?
Thanks!
My 88 five speed Cherokee with the 4.0L was awesome, when you manually turned the 4x4 on
My 96 Cherokee 4.0L HO automatic was very capable tho, but less easy to control.
Wonder how many here commenting have actually taken a 4x4 manual AND auto offroad and are not just backing what they own
Only driven a manual tj and I love it! Can be a bit tricky sometimes but that's the fun part!
I wonder the same thing... honestly i own a manual f-150 that i love off roading very much but i think its mostly a preference thing, both can work well in offroad situations
I’ve had a manual and auto TJ. The manual is more fun for the street but loses in every situation to the automatic off-road.
Manual is less forgiving to the rest of the drivetrain. Mechanical connection between the crank and axles bounces you around while driving over trails with lots of baby-head sized rocks. The vent at the bottom of the bell-housing allows grit and muddy water to get between the surfaces of the clutch and accelerate wear. My auto had 4:1 gearing in the t-case so engine braking was never an issue. Auto also allows you to seamlessly shift through all of the gears if you find yourself half way up a slick climb and need some more wheel speed.
Taylor Mallory
I own both. Both are fun. Do you want to focus and play hard impressing the boys? Do it in the manual.
Do you want to take a pair of tits out on the trail and not embarrass yourself stalling or missing a gear/pedal? Use the auto.
Once you're really good, neither is significantly better. It's an xj. Anything the other can't get up is really suited for the tube frame anyway.
skeetorkiftwon i had both at one point but my first XJ was a 5 speed. Second was a automatic. The automatic was much easier lol. Unfortunately that one caught fire. Still offroading the 5 speed, not trying to " impress the bois " just prefer that for the better mpg overall..
Have these guys never heard of gears or dual transfer case? My lowest gear is less than 1 mph
I been wheeling for a few years (30) always had manuals. Tried a few auto from buddys and just can't seem to like them. Nice demo guys
You probably prefer a 1911 too
Very helpful !!
Looks like both those trucks went down that hill at the same rate of speed to me.
I think there's something wrong with your auto jeep, my aw4 works awesome keeping my jeep under control when stuck in first gear low range downhill, also I use high range to keep wheelspin down sometimes
I`m searching for a manual 4wd pickup and it`s so hard to find one with no rust. :(
If you're open to buying new then the highest trim level of Toyota Tacoma (TRD Pro) still offers a 6-speed manual.
@@tbr2109 I guess I`ll rather buy a mustang then. At least ford never gives up making manual.
I've done lots of xj offroading, and all though I love standard trans for a lot of things, auto seems to be the best fit for put it In drive and just go, anywhere, plus you have a free hand for your off road soda
lgboost "offroad soda" always need one of those
What’s shifter are you using for the transfer case?
Advanced Adapters kits for Wranglers that we modify to fit the Cherokees.
Team O'Neil Rally School I really like it, and is it that hard to modify it to fit an xj with the np231? Thanks
How about the same comparison when both cars have a low range 4wd system? It _seems_ like the low range overcomes some of the problems of the automatic wanting to go downhill without getting engine braking; also going faster than you would like to go in the manual, you can go pretty darn slow in low range & not have to worry about the engine stalling or anything. Just a thought. You might get too much torque and increase wheel spin I suppose...
thank you for your video congratulations
Good video and what's that white stuff on the ground lol
...Caterpillar put torque converter power shift transmissions in their bulldozers back in the 1950s...and never looked back...
When going downhill with conventional auto in 4 low mode you need to bring it to a rev in low gear only then the engine bracking comes in. If you just let the in low gear while going downhill the engine bracking will only comes with the speed.
I just can't get on board with an auto. I've had nothing but problems with the unpredictability of an auto transmission and lack of control on and off the road.
I had one auto trans truck, the trans kept overheating even in low.... that was in 1987. Never had an auto truck after that!
in ireland it's rare to see an automatic except for the new cars nowadays I'm 14 and ive only driven Manuel
Does anyone know what the gear ration was in the rear end on each jeep or the # of splines?
Manual for more advanced driving, automatic has always been about the comfort even off the road
S-tech manual is great for nearly killing your battery while rock crawling lol
BenDover killing your battery?
Because of starting your car from stalling so many times. Usually for noobs its a problem
Auto boxes are more expensive so the industry just want to keep the expensive option plus Americans cnat drive.
You can put a manual xj in first be off the clutch let of the gas and it will creep slowly without stalling
I use a Bicyicle throttle on my shifter to keep from rolling back
In down hill in automatic I use 4L 1 gear in a very down hill slope or I can use my "Hill Decent " button..
What about automatic (or dual clutch) with paddle shifters?
Thanks. Common sense but it helps to Visualize
What's with the little eggshell mountaineering helmets?
If you bang your head on the rollbar, those helmets won't give you very much protection.