Agreed, I think Tesla seems more appealing cuz it’s viewed as a cool car and they claim you can make more with “comfort electric” rides but those rides barely pay more than the normal rides.
What if u don’t have your own car is it still a rip off, I just quit my trucking job for the winter to do the uber rental program I’m freaking out now like I made a big mistake since I don’t have my own car and right now my credit too bad to finance one
The bottom line is that if drivers are that smart, no one will sign up to drive for Uber and lyft. I have seen many drivers sitting at the airport for like 30 minutes and when they get a ride for $17 they are so happy and thought they are making $25 per hour.
Not in Texas I have to literally have stop request. You never sitting long in my city that's why I start at 4 am to 1pm which I beat traffic @@ZavHustles
Yeah I did a rental thru Hyrecar while my car was down. It most definitely is a rip I paid over $8,000 in 5 months. I could've bought a used prius cash. Renting is definitely a complete waste of money in my opinion.
You only should listen to this man if you have other options, but if you don’t have any options please listen to this because at least you will be earning.
I did a similar video about this when I had my ford mache. With buying my hyundai ioniq and that's $900/month plus my $210/ month insurance I get free charging and I have offsets from lyft of $150/week and uber gives me another $30-50/week. Then with the IRS mileage deduction I feel I'm doing well. Plus the EV is low maintenance. I've met drivers paying $425/week with their rentals.
Good points. Another thing as well, with the ford you were renting you were able to do both platforms but with an Uber Tesla rental you can only do Uber, which will bring definitely bring down hourly income
What’s really a scam is the people that pay $16-$30 for a ride everyday / every time they have to go somewhere if your a busy person say you take 90 rides per month @ $20 each that 1800 a month when you could just buy a car for $-500-$700 a month .. wait is even buying a car nowadays a scam too ? Buying gas is a scam shit we just live in a scam world lol 😂 I need to make that video ( humanity scam ) how the world fuks us lol 😂
@@ZavHustles I made little over 100k renting a tesla in Las vegas and not LA. I lived in the car and bust my ass every day for hours for a year and saved some money after car rental expenses and other bs. Was that worth it? No but I had to do what I could do. If you are an uber driver thats fine, but if you stay and uber driver you deserve it all. Goodluck
@@samricher I don’t disagree with you, this isn’t something that’s a career it should be a temporary gig. I’m curious, did you make 100k before or after expenses? I feel like you coulda bought a used Tesla and ran it into the ground and still made more money after expenses than renting, which is why I say renting is a scam
@@ZavHustles no man. That was without car expenses (2k a month) But I did it for 9 months and not a full year. Overall at least it is much easier and better to do it in Vegas market since most rides are shorts are tourists tip you.
Yes it is. I rented a tesla for 9 months from hertz because I didn’t have a choice and it totally was not worth it. The car itself was $415 a week with tax and insurance plus charging was about $150 a week. So I was paying about $575 every week for the tesla and I would make only a $1000 after driving for 40 hours and my take home amount was only about $420 a week, way below minimum wage. I blew all my savings to pay my bills and rent because it wasn’t enough. And on top of that Hertz robbed me for a $600 plus my $200 deposit has never returned to me and it’s 2 months now after I returned the car. So that’s $800 they robbed me for
Haha it’s a complete ripoff bro! Especially if you already have a car. If you want to rent it for a week to do content then it might be worth it, you just gotta go ham and put in a bunch of hours that week
Some facts... Any rental, even to use for driving for Uber/Lyft or even any other driving gig... is not from the gig app, as you implied when replying to another comment from someone that claimed otherwise. Charging costs are cost per kilowatt hour, not cost per mile. It's miles per kilowatt hour the EV gets. The difference of cost per kilowatt hour is relevant to the cost of electricity in the area of the supercharger. Taxes and fees, for rentals, are always additional. That's simply how it works. All costs are deducted from gig app pay, just as taxes are. As per the graphic of rental cost of a Tesla, looks like a Model 3, for a week, that you showed... $334/w = shy of $47.72 per day, assuming you drive each day of the week (seven days). Obviously the $334 doesn't include the taxes, fees and charging - so these calculations do not include them. The way charging cost works with Tesla's and the supercharger network, the rental company - since you're renting the vehicle, would have to charge you their cost from you supercharging - unless you charge at home. The only way charging at superchargers would be directly charged to you is if the rental company programs your payment information into the vehicle as well. it would be best for them to just charge you. If you charge at home but not always then only the supercharger cost would be charged by the rental company. If you should happen to need to buy windshield washer fluid then the rental company should reimburse you for that - need the receipt - and any left over should be left in the vehicle. The final fact... It's your responsibility to bring in enough money to cover your expenses and still have money left over. The pay per hour calculation needs to include everything before taxes, charging, etc. Thus, assuming... you do 100 $5 rides any given day and say your pay is $1 for each of those rides, your pay for the day would be $100 - times seven days = $700. Federal minimum wage is $7.25/h, which means you'd have to drive (work) 13.8 hours to 'break' $100 each day. Minimum wage in my state is $14, so here you'd have to drive (work) 7.2 hours each day to 'break' $100/day. Guesstimating 30% for taxes would be $30 in taxes each day, leaving $70. Half of that can easily be a tank of gas, but it'd be reasonably less than that to charge an EV one time from nearly 0% to 80% or even 100%. It's actually best to charge at home, if you can, because supercharging is harder on EVs, which is why they're meant for long distance travel.
I’ve done a lot of research on this brother. You might get 5 cents a mile with a home charger but you will almost never get a rate that good at a supercharger.
@@ZavHustles Im not talking about research, although it’s just anecdotal because it only applies to one location where I Live and it is a supercharger. It has about 20 spaces.
@@TeslaMan69 maybe that location is just cheap? I’ve watched a bunch of videos and the lowest I saw someone get was about 7 cents a mile, while most paid more than that
People rent the Tesla because they have to not because they want to. Renting from hertZ/ Uber is a scam it’s for people with no credit or down payments
@@Killahkron1992 if you buy the wrong vehicle yes, I see people doing gig work with American cars and that’s also equally unintelligent. Best bet is to get a Toyota or Honda, in addition to it being a hybrid so you save money on fuel
@@esehavek1 the earlier models had horrible reliability but I think they’ve gotten a lot better, I wouldn’t stress about the battery pack or the electric engines but I’d probably worry about a lot of the other minor things that could go wrong
Definitely worth it! Gives you an opportunity to look at money from a daily profit prospective and expand from there vs an hourly wage one. The way you all are looking at is the reason the pay is so low. WE’RE NOT EMPLOYEES, stop saying this and that per hour! Look at it from how many trips you do average…. Earn your profits! And take that money and invest in something that can make you more money. Scale and Leverage in whatever market of passion as necessary to accomplish your true dreams and ideas! That’s the American Dream.
I value my Uber drivers and the service that they provide but The truth is that many of them are uneducated and will not do the math.... If they were highly educated they most likely wouldn't be driving for Uber....😂😢
Bro, Wouldn't let me message you back so just wanted to say I don't touch protein powder none of that sugar filled processed junk, as far as food goes all I eat is red meat animal fat and eggs thats it, I'm strict carnivore brother, I drink RO water and raw milk for fluids...... Peace....... Madness lol my dad has a Tesla hahaaaa 😎
U wont get any sleep u will be at charger 12 in the night it really is horrible lol I'm out for goodbno more renting I'm same place where i start lol take my advice run lol
I understand what you’re saying. And you make some great points. But you have to compare the pros and cons from renting to owning. Not just the renting standpoint. I think most rent due to obvious reasons. Maintenance and fuel comparisons. I use my own vehicle and I’ve put on some serious miles and probably change the oil every 6 Wk’s. Not to mention the ware on tires. My fuel cost is from $150-$180, Sun through Friday. Just to go further into it. I drive over night. When traffic is not bad at all. Imagine during the mornings or during the day. Houston is no joke when it comes to traffic. Yeah you may make less on what an average person might make at a fast food restaurant. But rideshare drivers due it for the freedom. Renting,,,It may be a ripoff but in essence. It does come with some pros. That some are willing to take a gamble. I’m on the fence on renting. Thanks for sharing. Stay safe. 👍🏼👍🏼
You gotta think about it this way, a rental car company has one objective, to make money. I’d they are offering you a car at a certain price it’s because they are making money off of you, which means you are spending more money than they are to upkeep the car, that’s where their profit comes from. You are spending more money on the car than they are, which is how they make a profit, which is proof that you are losing money but not owning the car yourself
That is such a harsh statement, you have no idea the struggle it is to make it , people have to do what they need to do to survive. I just signed up as my expense keep going up and it’s for a short time period
@@ZavHustles I feel lucky. I'm a college student through Uber Eats' partnership with ASU Online. To maintain eligibility for the 100% tuition coverage, I need to 100 points per month which is ~10 hours of dinner time deliveries. I'm sure only a minority of drivers are utilizing the opportunity though.
@@renewableaccess9714 No one said it was charged by the mile dumbo. You take the cost of the charge and divide that by the miles of range you gained from the charge in order to get the cost per mile, free lesson for you today, you’re welcome.
You clearly have an auditory processing disability. Perhaps re-watching this video without distractions will enable you to hear the many references to charging by the mile.
@@renewableaccess9714my Prius costs 5 cents a mile for gas, does that mean I pay by the mile? No. It means you run the numbers to figure out how much the cost per mile is, depending on your cost per gallon and milage your vehicle gets. You’re trying so hard to sound intelligent but you can’t even put 2 and 2 together. I’m gonna assume you’re one of the morons who rents a Tesla and this video pissed you off.
@@ZavHustles I'm not saying it's particularly complicated to figure it out. I am saying that if you tell people that charging is priced by the mile, you shouldn't be giving your analysis. Furthermore, when you say that no one said charge by the mile, you're just flat out wrong and an idiot for doubling down.
Any rental from Uber or Lyft is a total ripoff not just Tesla's
Agreed, I think Tesla seems more appealing cuz it’s viewed as a cool car and they claim you can make more with “comfort electric” rides but those rides barely pay more than the normal rides.
Of course.avoid for any cost,Uber and their partners,they as ll ripping you off!!!!
What if u don’t have your own car is it still a rip off, I just quit my trucking job for the winter to do the uber rental program I’m freaking out now like I made a big mistake since I don’t have my own car and right now my credit too bad to finance one
The bottom line is that if drivers are that smart, no one will sign up to drive for Uber and lyft.
I have seen many drivers sitting at the airport for like 30 minutes and when they get a ride for $17 they are so happy and thought they are making $25 per hour.
Ya, it’s crazy how many people just sit and wait for a ride at the airport, such a waste of time
Not in Texas I have to literally have stop request. You never sitting long in my city that's why I start at 4 am to 1pm which I beat traffic @@ZavHustles
bro, they just don’t want to be home, maybe bad situation at home, they are just hanging out there like bums
Yeah I did a rental thru Hyrecar while my car was down. It most definitely is a rip I paid over $8,000 in 5 months. I could've bought a used prius cash. Renting is definitely a complete waste of money in my opinion.
Agreed, should only be an option if you have no other option, even then it’s questionable
@@ZavHustles Right! It's good for a temporary situation but you're better off financing a car with a much lower car payment like you said
You only should listen to this man if you have other options, but if you don’t have any options please listen to this because at least you will be earning.
People need to learn the meaning of scam. Its annoying
Uber misleads people into thinking renting a Tesla is profitable business venture, I personally view that as a scam
@@ZavHustles fortunately the law doesn’t abide by your personal view
How am I making 6k monthly with my rental? What chick fil a pays that in Nashville?
@@iketurnip9906 How much you making after paying for the rental and charging? And how many hours a week do you work?
show proof of the income and the hours driving, nobody is stupid here
So what about other cars? Or is the rental program just not good if you don’t have your own car
I did a similar video about this when I had my ford mache. With buying my hyundai ioniq and that's $900/month plus my $210/ month insurance I get free charging and I have offsets from lyft of $150/week and uber gives me another $30-50/week. Then with the IRS mileage deduction I feel I'm doing well. Plus the EV is low maintenance. I've met drivers paying $425/week with their rentals.
Also, I never had pay issues with Ford Drive unlike the stories I've heard about Hertz.
Good points. Another thing as well, with the ford you were renting you were able to do both platforms but with an Uber Tesla rental you can only do Uber, which will bring definitely bring down hourly income
@ZavHustles very true. Same with the lyft drive rentals they can only be used with lyft.
Hmm this is interesting, I never knew about this. It's definitely something to think about
$900/m for a Hyundai is insane. lol People are bad with finances.
can i ask you how much uber pay per miles and mins in your area?
There is Tesla and then there is you. When you add a third party, it will always be less cost effective. Because it must.
bro I live in Canada, we don't have this Tesla Uber option, but the number says it all, what a rip-off😡😡😡
I got mine at avis.
They had a direction to my bank account.
Three times took money Out authorized.
I can't do that job.They're untrustworthy
What’s really a scam is the people that pay $16-$30 for a ride everyday / every time they have to go somewhere if your a busy person say you take 90 rides per month @ $20 each that 1800 a month when you could just buy a car for $-500-$700 a month .. wait is even buying a car nowadays a scam too ? Buying gas is a scam shit we just live in a scam world lol 😂 I need to make that video ( humanity scam ) how the world fuks us lol 😂
that is different, there could be multiple of reasons why some people don’t drive
agreed - not worth it. That doesn't make it a scam.
Uber offers these cars to people knowing there will barely be any money left for them after expenses, scam, ripoff, deceptive, call it what you want
It is
@@ZavHustles I made little over 100k renting a tesla in Las vegas and not LA. I lived in the car and bust my ass every day for hours for a year and saved some money after car rental expenses and other bs. Was that worth it? No but I had to do what I could do. If you are an uber driver thats fine, but if you stay and uber driver you deserve it all. Goodluck
@@samricher I don’t disagree with you, this isn’t something that’s a career it should be a temporary gig. I’m curious, did you make 100k before or after expenses? I feel like you coulda bought a used Tesla and ran it into the ground and still made more money after expenses than renting, which is why I say renting is a scam
@@ZavHustles no man. That was without car expenses (2k a month) But I did it for 9 months and not a full year. Overall at least it is much easier and better to do it in Vegas market since most rides are shorts are tourists tip you.
Yes it is. I rented a tesla for 9 months from hertz because I didn’t have a choice and it totally was not worth it. The car itself was $415 a week with tax and insurance plus charging was about $150 a week. So I was paying about $575 every week for the tesla and I would make only a $1000 after driving for 40 hours and my take home amount was only about $420 a week, way below minimum wage. I blew all my savings to pay my bills and rent because it wasn’t enough. And on top of that Hertz robbed me for a $600 plus my $200 deposit has never returned to me and it’s 2 months now after I returned the car. So that’s $800 they robbed me for
Damn, I’ve heard they screw people over a lot with the deposit. Uber allows it to happen too, damn shame
I did almost 2 years and lost a lot of money It was a very bad experience to stay away
Hertz double charged me over 900 bucks hertz will hurt you financially
Ev charging isn’t by the mileage ev charging isn’t priced by the mileage
@@joronomo707 You take the cost of the charge and divide it by the miles of range gained by that charge in order to get the cost per mile.
Yall dont know how to hustle .. if you are renting you have to work more than 50hrs .. if thats not something u can do .. dont rent
@@oonieify Poor guy, even after watching this video you won’t admit you’re being finessed lol.
You need to first deduct your taxes from the $1250 and then factor in your overhead. Nonetheless, I see your point, it's a total scam.
Bro why you put out this video the same day I had an idea of renting a car from Uber for TH-cam footage? 🤣🤣
Haha it’s a complete ripoff bro! Especially if you already have a car. If you want to rent it for a week to do content then it might be worth it, you just gotta go ham and put in a bunch of hours that week
🤣
Have to work 40 hr a week to make a profit. 20hr a week will barely brake even after gas rental taxes .
And you did it again 😐
modern day slavery . the more you driver the poorer you get .
You can write off the entire thing though
And you can write off 65 cents a mile if you own the car, which is a much larger tax write off
You can rent a Uber black car for the same price. Keep renting those teslas for basic rides guys !
I heard Uber black is dead. Might depend on the city? In los angeles people are working 80 hours a week for a gross profit of $1,600
@@ZavHustles If you only do Uber BLack yeah sure thats the case. Need to adapt.
This rentasl are good to work 16hrs a day save and buy a car cash or if your car breaksdown
Finally a smart person that knows how this rental scam works.😮
Flipping CHICKEN BUCKETS for $16/hr! That's what I"m about to go do. I'm gonna eat a few pieces before I put em in the bucket, tho! LOL!
Some facts...
Any rental, even to use for driving for Uber/Lyft or even any other driving gig... is not from the gig app, as you implied when replying to another comment from someone that claimed otherwise.
Charging costs are cost per kilowatt hour, not cost per mile. It's miles per kilowatt hour the EV gets. The difference of cost per kilowatt hour is relevant to the cost of electricity in the area of the supercharger. Taxes and fees, for rentals, are always additional. That's simply how it works.
All costs are deducted from gig app pay, just as taxes are. As per the graphic of rental cost of a Tesla, looks like a Model 3, for a week, that you showed... $334/w = shy of $47.72 per day, assuming you drive each day of the week (seven days). Obviously the $334 doesn't include the taxes, fees and charging - so these calculations do not include them. The way charging cost works with Tesla's and the supercharger network, the rental company - since you're renting the vehicle, would have to charge you their cost from you supercharging - unless you charge at home. The only way charging at superchargers would be directly charged to you is if the rental company programs your payment information into the vehicle as well. it would be best for them to just charge you. If you charge at home but not always then only the supercharger cost would be charged by the rental company. If you should happen to need to buy windshield washer fluid then the rental company should reimburse you for that - need the receipt - and any left over should be left in the vehicle.
The final fact... It's your responsibility to bring in enough money to cover your expenses and still have money left over. The pay per hour calculation needs to include everything before taxes, charging, etc. Thus, assuming... you do 100 $5 rides any given day and say your pay is $1 for each of those rides, your pay for the day would be $100 - times seven days = $700. Federal minimum wage is $7.25/h, which means you'd have to drive (work) 13.8 hours to 'break' $100 each day. Minimum wage in my state is $14, so here you'd have to drive (work) 7.2 hours each day to 'break' $100/day. Guesstimating 30% for taxes would be $30 in taxes each day, leaving $70. Half of that can easily be a tank of gas, but it'd be reasonably less than that to charge an EV one time from nearly 0% to 80% or even 100%. It's actually best to charge at home, if you can, because supercharging is harder on EVs, which is why they're meant for long distance travel.
They have cheaper cars to rent and its good for only when your car is in the shop.
Please listen to this man.
On god lol
Lol it never costs me 10 cents a mile no matter where I charge it’s more like 5-7.5 cents a mile bro.
I’ve done a lot of research on this brother. You might get 5 cents a mile with a home charger but you will almost never get a rate that good at a supercharger.
@@ZavHustles Im not talking about research, although it’s just anecdotal because it only applies to one location where I Live and it is a supercharger. It has about 20 spaces.
@@TeslaMan69 maybe that location is just cheap? I’ve watched a bunch of videos and the lowest I saw someone get was about 7 cents a mile, while most paid more than that
People rent the Tesla because they have to not because they want to. Renting from hertZ/ Uber is a scam it’s for people with no credit or down payments
I disagree, you’re better off going to a shady bank and getting screwed with a 27% interest rate than renting through hertz
@@ZavHustles What if even some shady bank won’t touch you with a 10 foot pole?
@@TeslaMan69 you’re not trying hard enough, if illegal immigrants with no social security numbers can get approved for a loan then so can you
Its bad but repairs on your vehicle can add up too.
@@Killahkron1992 if you buy the wrong vehicle yes, I see people doing gig work with American cars and that’s also equally unintelligent. Best bet is to get a Toyota or Honda, in addition to it being a hybrid so you save money on fuel
@@ZavHustles MY Honda broke down lol
@@esehavek1 it happens, but statistically speaking you have a much lower chance of a Honda or Toyota breaking down than other car brands
@@ZavHustles this is true. I wonder how Teslas would hold up long term for local transportation business
@@esehavek1 the earlier models had horrible reliability but I think they’ve gotten a lot better, I wouldn’t stress about the battery pack or the electric engines but I’d probably worry about a lot of the other minor things that could go wrong
EV bonus has been discontinued should sue them for deceptive advertising
I think they’ve stated it will end at the end of March
Agreed.
Definitely worth it! Gives you an opportunity to look at money from a daily profit prospective and expand from there vs an hourly wage one. The way you all are looking at is the reason the pay is so low. WE’RE NOT EMPLOYEES, stop saying this and that per hour! Look at it from how many trips you do average…. Earn your profits! And take that money and invest in something that can make you more money. Scale and Leverage in whatever market of passion as necessary to accomplish your true dreams and ideas! That’s the American Dream.
And after you write off your gas taxes and maintenance I’m sure you are at the same price lol
@@exploringwitheric Wrong brother, that’s why you need to run the numbers instead of just assuming
after the slow season ima try it for content purposes
For sure, create some content and test drive a Tesla for a week
You did basic math, and gave your opinion. No hard numbers though.
*promo sm* 😪
Lyft get the pole star pay $200 a week with tax
I value my Uber drivers and the service that they provide but The truth is that many of them are uneducated and will not do the math.... If they were highly educated they most likely wouldn't be driving for Uber....😂😢
We’re all getting pimped
Bro, Wouldn't let me message you back so just wanted to say I don't touch protein powder none of that sugar filled processed junk, as far as food goes all I eat is red meat animal fat and eggs thats it, I'm strict carnivore brother, I drink RO water and raw milk for fluids...... Peace....... Madness lol my dad has a Tesla hahaaaa 😎
U wont get any sleep u will be at charger 12 in the night it really is horrible lol I'm out for goodbno more renting I'm same place where i start lol take my advice run lol
I understand what you’re saying. And you make some great points. But you have to compare the pros and cons from renting to owning. Not just the renting standpoint. I think most rent due to obvious reasons. Maintenance and fuel comparisons. I use my own vehicle and I’ve put on some serious miles and probably change the oil every 6 Wk’s. Not to mention the ware on tires. My fuel cost is from $150-$180, Sun through Friday. Just to go further into it. I drive over night. When traffic is not bad at all. Imagine during the mornings or during the day. Houston is no joke when it comes to traffic.
Yeah you may make less on what an average person might make at a fast food restaurant. But rideshare drivers due it for the freedom.
Renting,,,It may be a ripoff but in essence. It does come with some pros. That some are willing to take a gamble.
I’m on the fence on renting.
Thanks for sharing. Stay safe. 👍🏼👍🏼
You gotta think about it this way, a rental car company has one objective, to make money. I’d they are offering you a car at a certain price it’s because they are making money off of you, which means you are spending more money than they are to upkeep the car, that’s where their profit comes from. You are spending more money on the car than they are, which is how they make a profit, which is proof that you are losing money but not owning the car yourself
Exactly
Thank you lol ❤
Only desperate driver will keep renting
Desperate or dumb, or both
That is such a harsh statement, you have no idea the struggle it is to make it , people have to do what they need to do to survive. I just signed up as my expense keep going up and it’s for a short time period
Some markets are better than others. What’s desperate for one is not for another.
@@ZavHustles I feel lucky. I'm a college student through Uber Eats' partnership with ASU Online. To maintain eligibility for the 100% tuition coverage, I need to 100 points per month which is ~10 hours of dinner time deliveries. I'm sure only a minority of drivers are utilizing the opportunity though.
People who buy ev cars are getting scammed also…i will believe in ev cars when we ll flight ev planes. 😂
Lol, I’ve always been hesitant as well but over time I think it’ll be worth it, once they perfect the technology
EV changing is not priced by the mile. It’s charged but the kWh. If you don’t know what you are talking about, don’t make a TH-cam video.
@@renewableaccess9714 No one said it was charged by the mile dumbo. You take the cost of the charge and divide that by the miles of range you gained from the charge in order to get the cost per mile, free lesson for you today, you’re welcome.
You clearly have an auditory processing disability. Perhaps re-watching this video without distractions will enable you to hear the many references to charging by the mile.
Dumbo? If you pull your head out of that dark hole and listen, you’ll discover that he says it many times.
@@renewableaccess9714my Prius costs 5 cents a mile for gas, does that mean I pay by the mile? No. It means you run the numbers to figure out how much the cost per mile is, depending on your cost per gallon and milage your vehicle gets. You’re trying so hard to sound intelligent but you can’t even put 2 and 2 together. I’m gonna assume you’re one of the morons who rents a Tesla and this video pissed you off.
@@ZavHustles I'm not saying it's particularly complicated to figure it out. I am saying that if you tell people that charging is priced by the mile, you shouldn't be giving your analysis. Furthermore, when you say that no one said charge by the mile, you're just flat out wrong and an idiot for doubling down.
I always feel bad for the 🤡 that I see renting from Uber and driving 80 hours a week just to break even.
Lol ya bro, seems like they can’t do simple math