being a Law Student in Namibia myself, i like the energht Lerato is having and the way he is dealing with what he and how he prepared is just inpiring, even if he is carried way by judje on approch or reference he still stand his ground. kudos Adv!!!!!!!!!
This matter is not ripe for hearing. The judge should not have allowed it to proceed in this maner. The should have had pre hearing inchambers meeting about representations and who should apear for the state and all that.
But also you, with respect, it seems as if mind is not ripe to understand the issue. A directive is like a Court Order and or rules of the Court and or case management. That matter was before Court based on criminal procedures rules. It is a directive, what are you talking about? If a Judge direct you to go argue a point in limine before civil Court after he has been address his Lordship about the rules and about the jurisdiction and he refuses, can you arrive before Court and argue that the ,atter is not ripe for hearing when pleadings are closed and when both parties are interested to argue the matter. You also.....lol!!!do not embrace us with Judge Mutata's views. There was a directive by JP and the matter was before criminal Court directed to be argued at civil when he was told that the matter is an application before criminal Court. that is the issue, not your issue.
He is very smart, i know him. he is my friend the Judge is rude and she does not want to listen to the law. A directive is provided to all parties they have to be there. The Judge has to determine the jurisdiction point and stop frastrating the rights of Thabo.
Bail applications eg is Civil in nature, the accused is an applicant, even adv Moela is right this matter can be heard in a criminal court but he is being grilled as they don't want to give Thabo bester a fair trial, separation of powers, checks and balances a pillar of our constitution, politics and public opinion should not affect the courts, presumption of innocence, even for Thabo bester, at court he is innocence before being found guilty
These boy is more than the deputy judge president, she never thought she will ever meet such a talent, Advocate Lerato Moela brings words to practicality... The judge wants to use the position to shut the waters.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us How? He can’t even explain who is the State in this case? The Judge gave up on him and was told “qhuba”. I can’t wait for the Judgement. It will be hilarious.🤣
@@SizakeleTwal she did that, she argued the case of the respondent that is why Lerato attacked the inconsistence of the pleadings of the Respondent. Because the respondent was also shocked and tried to cover the embarrassment. I was once before Judge Thulare, I was shocked. There is one Judge called Judge Alisa Mpofu the immediately demoted her i appeal her overturned a High Court order and later was promoted and later demoted. These Judges, man and their coffee table discussion you can be shocked. It just that, our African brother are used to the worse but these ones also do this biasness that is why biasness is double requirement. They can be very bias. The Judge was to be quite honest out of line. And I believe when she looked at her conduct she is ashamed of her conduct. Its a serious stain to the legal profession.
Guys stop misleading this Moela guy, this is a typical example of a vexatious litigant, they ask him a simple question "how were they served?" at 21:14 i did not hear any answer there. stop promoting this bad kind of litigation. he further fails to indicate who the prosecutor is, ,come on i am not impressed in him.
I think is those coffee engagement they have, I have been in this game for long man. JP can be very corrupt man. This poor judge you must remember for her to be promoted she needs to bit JP's mass. And the JP's needs to bit ministers directives and we and poor Lerato we are at the receiving end. I do not regret to have studied political science. Lerato has a junior degree in accounting so he knows very well what he was dealing with. Judge especially black Judges can be derogative and racist meaning they are the extension of white markets. I think these thinks are getting clearer now as these cases are televised. To be quite honest our judiciary seem not only t be captured but we need to understand we are still developing and corruption is sophisticated its prominent in Courts . he fought shame Lerator lol
The only problem here is the young lawyer, it's important to address the judge with so much respect everytime you speak respect and high honours should be heard from the lawyers voice. She is reflecting him.
@ Irrelevant…you can’t ask a question and interject the answer by asking more questions and interject those answers too…Emotional immaturity for a judge.
You are talking about what is irrelevant to my comment…I’m not worried about whether the she is right or wrong on a legal issue…I’m commenting that her EQ is appallingly low…A judge lacks emotionally immature.
That matter is not on a civil roll as per the application. It is removed by the Judge President and its before Court as per the directive. If you remove it what shall you do. Are you going to apply in chambers to suspend the JP's directive. Its like a case management matter man. JP has powers to administer justice that is what happened here, the JP massed up and the current Judge and the litigants are not dealing with the pleading per se they are dealing with the directive that is unilateral and pr exclusive. If you want to enjoy law respect law not discretion remember discretion can be challenge and one thing that I know judge are scared of its appeal and or review. Lerato is now busy drafting appeal to Constitutional Court and Rule 49. That I can tell. Attorneys must not entertain abuse of secretion by Judge, judges are lawyers they must also account. Remember Judge Brown case with SC Mkhari, I believe this was close to that, because lerato was correctly attacking the interruption of the Judge. This is developmental issue.
Not allowing the Advocate to present His case. Watching the whole thing proves that this young man is right after all, what a see here reading between the lines is this Judge has a problem with the Judge President who allocated this case to Her. Or she had concluded that her court must not even give these guys a chance. This I my opinion Well done Advocate Moela!
There was a stage when the judge said "Mr Moela just carry on coz whatever i say to you seems that they do not make sense"....she was actually washing her hands...realizing that this guy is standing his ground right or wrong....Stand your ground Mr Moela stand your ground....28/11/2024
ADVOCATE MOELA IS THE FUTURE, WE WILL SEE A LOT OF HIM IN THE COMING YEARS, HE STILL HAS A LOT TO LEARN. WHERE IS THE NPA QUESTION IS KILLING HIM. 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Only four years into his admission as an advocate and Mr Moela makes submissions and conducts himself in this manner. I am not impressed by his conduct. Especially when compared to the manner in which his opponent made his submissions - cool, calm and collected. Overall, Mr Moela's submissions are empty, to say the least. There are contradicting views in the comments where some people say he has a bright future and others say he's not doing well. Why people share a view on the former really puzzles me.
Am well aware that a lot of people are taken by some hype and emotions without having knowledge of the law. That legal counsel representing Thabo Bester is mediocre and I doubt if he will ever grow in his career and the reason why, am citing that, is that he quoted a case and relied on its principle in a wrong context, which it was even was set aside and dismissed. furthermore, the case was not even supposed to be heard since it's not in a criminal procedure act , it involves correctional service and their behavior towards his accused. How is it that one become confident when his case is does not even have merits and directed to the wrong court considering jurisdiction? Its mere stubbornness as a defense mechanism and delusion. I feel sorry for people who will consult him.
Council, do not lose sight of what Bester has done, and will continue henious acts still to come. Remember that we have to protect the law abiting citizens. You probably have a groding family. There was a dead body that was burnt, .... a mother is still crying. But you are fighting for a criminal... what for,? The money ? Eish.
He was driving on the wrong lane hence the judge is almost impatient and to others sound rude, which is to me is unfair comment to throw to her...the lawyer is floundering and she wants to put him back in line...28/11/2024
The judge is rude agains the fellow Advocate. if this was a young black lady being managed in this way by a male judge. feminists would have been on steroids
This judge is disrespectful and arrogant.In my view she got it wrong.The matter has already been before the criminal court and all she had to do was to determine whether the matter is civil or criminal,thats all.
I get the judges point, the NPA is a party in these proceedings and there's a relief sought against it, therefore they need to be before court in their own capacity and not as a legal representative of the state.
Wow, thanks for standing illitated, sister. I think the judge is actually trying to make him stronger. She Considered that he is young and still have to plead his case before real hostile Judges. I only see a mother trying to push his son. I hope he sees the love in her heart. As for me I can't wait to clarify with my professor whether the legal argument can be argued on principle or facts only. I hope other law students enjoy this game of wits as I have.
I am eager to hear someone who understands what Adv Lerato was upto here. I certainly couldn't follow. Are these civil, criminal or Constitutional Court proceedings..?
@@silentchikamhi1341 He was challenging the directive. Remember the issue before Court was one. is to determine whether the matter can be heard on civil and or criminal. He was simply saying the case law says that such matter is dealt with in criminal because its covered by section 35 it is a criminal matter. The directive is wrong. And if the state is not ready they must pay costs. His submission today was that, we ought to be before criminal matter this is a criminal matter it cannot be regulated by civil rules. This is one of the difficult cases its like committal. Contempt of Court is a civil matter regulated by civil rules but takes a form of criminal consequences. Lay people struggle they listen to President Zuma rhetoric. The judge tried to ridicule him and he stood his ground. And pushed back and I can tell you he is better place for appeal. interplay between section 35 and civil procedure is complicated. he simplified it. The defence of facts that the judge tried he attacked it very quickly and directly because he was aware. Check the case of EFF and see how justice Bhaqwa was ridiculed by justice Collopen. Not all Judges are that smart some judges are planted by certain section in the bench man.
Just like me....this is a product of Adv D Mpofu SC and he argues with amazing passion and quotes the law ...he is definitely winning this case come rain come sunshine....yiBoss le....he is just like his mentor....The judge will bow to his direction...28/11/2024
Are you saying directive that has pleadings that are closed must have a different case and is served afresh? Interesting precedence that you are setting CJ. lol
@@user-Benisto What you failing to understand is that the matter in its inception in the criminal court was defective of which that defect continues on to this current civil process. In the criminal court the same issues raised by this judge were raised by the criminal judge that you can't cite the state and claim relief against the state because that is vague and broad and may include just about any public or state entity. He should have cited the NPA as is common practice. The relief he seeks in his papers are absurd in criminal procedures. A declaration of invalidity cannot be made in a criminal court. What i don't agree with the judge is that she takes issue with him citing the correctional services where the order that he seeks will have a direct impact on them.
Thabo Bester is seeking a laptop to resume his fraudulent activities. He also wishes to be among the rest of the prison population to plan another escape. Bester's legal team is focusing on trivial matters to buy time, allowing him to devise a new escape plan. They have no substantial case, period.
I agree with you. Bester is on plan B. By refusing him a laptop they are delaying his plans of scamming people and fraudulent activities. By putting him with other prisoners he will get a chance to speak to corrupt wardens to assist him to escape. He better wait like everyone. Bester is a crook that can't be trusted
So true why are they waisting money on a person who is guilty why does he have so much rights wasting tax payers money dragging so many case's on and on and on so sickening
I have one question to the judge what does she means when she say i can see you're getting quiet excited for what you're doing why does she get into that part?
Listen to the engagement with the Court then you will know exactly who the respondents are or should have been....the court made herself very clear...29/11/2024
Mr Moela is asking prayers from Respondents that are not there in court to defend themselves....he did not serve them so that they build a defence or response to his allegations....eg Minister of Correctional service....etc...29/11/2024
Mntungwa this guy is winning today come rain come sunshine he argues with amazing passion justike Adv D Mpofu SC and he is mentored by him...hence he is so passionate and forceful...phez kwabo Mr Moela phez kwabo you are on the right track....bazakugoba....it has been a long time hearing a lawyer arguing so forceful quoting law and cases....with such a high pitch voice....that judge izakugoba today....28/11/2024
The AI is really making everything to be a mess , the young man seems to be confused by its interpretations...hence he is lost in the midst of confusion...
This judge doesn’t question or interject when the opposition is on the stand but the way she’s anticipating to interject when this advocate is on stand roots for biasness… i cant🚮
she was trying to block facts that can lead to appeal. she did that deliberately. But here, the matter was live they do this think all the time when judges are planted. they make sure that facts that shall hurt her points are not on the recorded. Its an old trick. With time Lerato shall learn to take notes. and keep quite. And then sought leave to respond. When you do that, you then make a Judge Counsel making submission on behalf of the respondent other than inquiring about the case. The duty of the Judge is to understand your case and not to argue against your case. Judge argue in the judgement base on the facts and the law not to establish new principles. It come with time. he shall master that, Counsel Mkhari does it better and he attacks judge who are generally with respect dizzy very well. Judge Brown was dealt with trying these tendencies.
Her Ladyship is failing to understand that the relevant parties were served in a different court on the very matter and that this is not a different matter but a decision that needs to be taken by her Ladyship.
Thabo is fully and or intact represented.Lera is a researcher man. Some Judges do not read law and they have tendencies of being bully. With Lerato the law is the law. He pregnant of case law. I am glad that the presiding officer finally conceded when they were debating Moyo. I think she realised that, to push coffee table and strange directive shall compromise her. lol their coffee talks with the JP and the Ministers are exposed here lol. ka ka ka ka ka. Lol, hardy Lerato, the Court was very hostile. But you pushed back in the parameters of law. It take tenacity and definitely not LLB alone but other degrees to master such focus. Hay ke i state attoney ngokutyisa amangamla. Lol
@@rirhandzulovemoremashele9944 These coffee table of these people shall always shock you broer. Lerato was ready for Rule 49. Appeal so that she can be dealt with by SCA and his JP. We need to guard against the abuse of administrative of Justice. What is clear here is that, the state has massed up and they are trying to manage their administrative blunder via intimidating. This generation especially young professionals must refuse this abuse. In Nigeria our colleagues are fighting this abuse. Once a Judge starts funny thing, lawyers must appeal him. Remember appeal minimizes chances of their upwards mobility. Lawyer must not be scared anything that seeks to suggest nonsensical decision against trite law appeal. That is why she run away. To be quite honest she was embarrassed, even her colleagues especially Justices are watching what shall come out of this JP mass.
@@rirhandzulovemoremashele9944 My brother as I am texting you. I ought to be before Court on the 18th December 2024 based on extreme urgency. The Court did not process the application. seemingly they sat and gave each other seemingly orders that are obtained unlawfully. I sat the matter again on the 22 December 2024. The University come to argue that I do not have a contract with them generally with respect nonsensical argument. I demonstrated in papers and from the bar as well that, the University seems not only to be dizzy, but dishonest and their case is hopeless and necessitate cost bonis de propriss. Guess what, I got an order ex temporer. Only to discover that, the clerk together with the attorney typed an order that has no effect. i arrive at my home. I am still denied access. I am left with no choice but to move on extreme urgent basis rule 42 and send my draft order. If I am not entertain I have to approach ConCourt. There is an issue of section 29 (1) (b) and section 26 (3) and 164 that I believe I can get an order ex parte with rule nisi. This is how our Court have degenerated and how the poor especially black and African are treated. This does not only happen in the western cape only but Gauteng also there are some JP that believe to be super JP because of thier proximity to whiteness. Hence we are in this mass. Its a mass man.
being a Law Student in Namibia myself, i like the energht Lerato is having and the way he is dealing with what he and how he prepared is just inpiring, even if he is carried way by judje on approch or reference he still stand his ground. kudos Adv!!!!!!!!!
I'm inspired by this young counsel
This judge is very patient.I wud hv ruled and dismissed the case asap
This matter is not ripe for hearing. The judge should not have allowed it to proceed in this maner. The should have had pre hearing inchambers meeting about representations and who should apear for the state and all that.
But also you, with respect, it seems as if mind is not ripe to understand the issue. A directive is like a Court Order and or rules of the Court and or case management. That matter was before Court based on criminal procedures rules. It is a directive, what are you talking about? If a Judge direct you to go argue a point in limine before civil Court after he has been address his Lordship about the rules and about the jurisdiction and he refuses, can you arrive before Court and argue that the ,atter is not ripe for hearing when pleadings are closed and when both parties are interested to argue the matter. You also.....lol!!!do not embrace us with Judge Mutata's views. There was a directive by JP and the matter was before criminal Court directed to be argued at civil when he was told that the matter is an application before criminal Court. that is the issue, not your issue.
The judge is straight to the point and the lawyer is tending to run away from asked questions
I see a bright future on this lawyer
Very courageous
But driving on the wrong lane...in this case....29/11/2024
He is very smart, i know him. he is my friend the Judge is rude and she does not want to listen to the law. A directive is provided to all parties they have to be there. The Judge has to determine the jurisdiction point and stop frastrating the rights of Thabo.
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us expand
Bail applications eg is Civil in nature, the accused is an applicant, even adv Moela is right this matter can be heard in a criminal court but he is being grilled as they don't want to give Thabo bester a fair trial, separation of powers, checks and balances a pillar of our constitution, politics and public opinion should not affect the courts, presumption of innocence, even for Thabo bester, at court he is innocence before being found guilty
"You dont apply the law through the facts, you apply through the principles!!!!!" Brilliant
Finally, we are introduced to Mrs Ratha Mokgwatlheng 😂😂😂
@@MacMelo 😂😂😂😂😂ohhh mu
You will get arrested this festive season 😂😂😂
That judge is very correct...29/11/2024
😂😂😂😂😂
On point!!This disrespectful judge got it wrong after all.She lacks extensive grasp of the law.
These boy is more than the deputy judge president, she never thought she will ever meet such a talent, Advocate Lerato Moela brings words to practicality... The judge wants to use the position to shut the waters.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
KEEP HIM IN JAIL WITH ALL PEOPLE THAT HELP HIM?
😂
Judge is nice, teaching him.
Mr Moela is a real fighter
It sound like we are attending a law class
Eish! My guy got derailed by the Judge. Mpofu taught him all the wrong things. “Ignore the Judge and do what you want” Banna! 😅😅😅
😂😂😂you guys mara
This guy is winning come rain come sunshine...28/11/2024
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us How? He can’t even explain who is the State in this case? The Judge gave up on him and was told “qhuba”. I can’t wait for the Judgement. It will be hilarious.🤣
😂😂😂
bad indeed
U will go far as a lawyer my brother. U a very confident.u know o story .grill this judge .I like it
I thought judges ask questions to seek clarity, but i just saw this judge arguing as a defense lawyer 😂 like really
😂😂😂😂SA is a joke in everything
Not in S.A
You are completely wrong if you thought that way.
@@SizakeleTwal she did that, she argued the case of the respondent that is why Lerato attacked the inconsistence of the pleadings of the Respondent. Because the respondent was also shocked and tried to cover the embarrassment. I was once before Judge Thulare, I was shocked. There is one Judge called Judge Alisa Mpofu the immediately demoted her i appeal her overturned a High Court order and later was promoted and later demoted. These Judges, man and their coffee table discussion you can be shocked. It just that, our African brother are used to the worse but these ones also do this biasness that is why biasness is double requirement. They can be very bias. The Judge was to be quite honest out of line. And I believe when she looked at her conduct she is ashamed of her conduct. Its a serious stain to the legal profession.
She is asking a simple question
Guys stop misleading this Moela guy, this is a typical example of a vexatious litigant, they ask him a simple question "how were they served?" at 21:14 i did not hear any answer there. stop promoting this bad kind of litigation. he further fails to indicate who the prosecutor is, ,come on i am not impressed in him.
Me neither
The judge schooling this guy on basics 😂
The opposite lawyer only needed a few minutes to bury Bester's lawyer.
Not at all, yall don't understand Lerato's prayers
Lol he is very argumentative… just answer the questions
Yes,she is so patient,the lawyer is running away from the main matter
@@YaobantuYes you are correct,he is deviating a lot and l think the judge is very patient,other judges cannot tolerate what this lawyer is doing
There should be a module on listening to and understanding questions by the presiding officers
I think is those coffee engagement they have, I have been in this game for long man. JP can be very corrupt man. This poor judge you must remember for her to be promoted she needs to bit JP's mass. And the JP's needs to bit ministers directives and we and poor Lerato we are at the receiving end. I do not regret to have studied political science. Lerato has a junior degree in accounting so he knows very well what he was dealing with. Judge especially black Judges can be derogative and racist meaning they are the extension of white markets. I think these thinks are getting clearer now as these cases are televised. To be quite honest our judiciary seem not only t be captured but we need to understand we are still developing and corruption is sophisticated its prominent in Courts . he fought shame Lerator lol
Does this suggests that Lerato doesn't hear the presiding officers outcry?
@@goodwillsphiweandTeamor he chooses to ignore her just like his mentor does
Mphoza come on😂😂😂@@mphorakabe8463
Law is not easy at all
It’s hard
Yes indeed one needs to do proper research and prepare before you go to court......28/11/2024
Moela is lost he can't answer questions
Did the judge say "You are getting excited with what you are doing?"😂😂
Ish😢
I thought I was the only one who heard that.
What is going on here😮😮😮
The only problem here is the young lawyer, it's important to address the judge with so much respect everytime you speak respect and high honours should be heard from the lawyers voice. She is reflecting him.
Emotional immaturity of this judge...appalling to say the least!!! 🤮
But she has a point though. How do you bring an opponent to court ? Through service. This is not an ex parte application baba 😂😂
@ Irrelevant…you can’t ask a question and interject the answer by asking more questions and interject those answers too…Emotional immaturity for a judge.
Lolz this is not ex parte application, therefore where the parties you seek relief against
This matter was opposed by State Attorney and they are there in Court
You are talking about what is irrelevant to my comment…I’m not worried about whether the she is right or wrong on a legal issue…I’m commenting that her EQ is appallingly low…A judge lacks emotionally immature.
Sometimes its best to just remove the matter from the roll and go back and fix your papers and come back again. Thats what I would do
That matter is not on a civil roll as per the application. It is removed by the Judge President and its before Court as per the directive. If you remove it what shall you do. Are you going to apply in chambers to suspend the JP's directive. Its like a case management matter man. JP has powers to administer justice that is what happened here, the JP massed up and the current Judge and the litigants are not dealing with the pleading per se they are dealing with the directive that is unilateral and pr exclusive. If you want to enjoy law respect law not discretion remember discretion can be challenge and one thing that I know judge are scared of its appeal and or review. Lerato is now busy drafting appeal to Constitutional Court and Rule 49. That I can tell. Attorneys must not entertain abuse of secretion by Judge, judges are lawyers they must also account. Remember Judge Brown case with SC Mkhari, I believe this was close to that, because lerato was correctly attacking the interruption of the Judge. This is developmental issue.
Forward Mr Moela✌️
I wish they could serve articles for far longer... please?
Does Advocates serve articles Kante?🤔
@sekotomajacobustau7782 Who said anything about advocates serving articles... stupidity????
@@abemosiuoa6449Do Judges or Advocates serve articles🙆♂️🤷♂️🫣😳
Whatever training they need...must be longer @@abemosiuoa6449
@@abemosiuoa6449 Lerato has long passed that stage
Dali's wrong teachings and referencing wrong Judgement 😂😂
Let me tool (Mandithule)...😂😂...28/11/2024
😂😂😂 Dali Mpofu
Not allowing the Advocate to present His case.
Watching the whole thing proves that this young man is right after all, what a see here reading between the lines is this Judge has a problem with the Judge President who allocated this case to Her. Or she had concluded that her court must not even give these guys a chance. This I my opinion
Well done Advocate Moela!
Mrs Ratha in the house🤞
😂😂😂
Wow this is embarrassing 😳….
Where's is the NPA simple question 🤔
This judge though!!! 😮
I am not happy with Mr Moelo 😂
😂😂
Thabo Bester is a better lawyer
Thinking the same here.
There was a stage when the judge said "Mr Moela just carry on coz whatever i say to you seems that they do not make sense"....she was actually washing her hands...realizing that this guy is standing his ground right or wrong....Stand your ground Mr Moela stand your ground....28/11/2024
This guy is totally lost in law and it's procedures,he is been schooled 😅😅😅
😂😂
Answer the question....
What a circus !!
This case will dragg on untill kingdom comes !!!!
Let it drag so that he's money dry out buy the time found him guilty no money for bribe
Until Mandela rises famous words of Ratha
He just needs to settle down … he is all over the joint
You back Advocate is lost on basics
ADVOCATE MOELA IS THE FUTURE, WE WILL SEE A LOT OF HIM IN THE COMING YEARS, HE STILL HAS A LOT TO LEARN. WHERE IS THE NPA QUESTION IS KILLING HIM. 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Why should the NPA be present my guy?
That's incorrect.The judge lacks extensive grasp of the law.
Only four years into his admission as an advocate and Mr Moela makes submissions and conducts himself in this manner. I am not impressed by his conduct. Especially when compared to the manner in which his opponent made his submissions - cool, calm and collected. Overall, Mr Moela's submissions are empty, to say the least.
There are contradicting views in the comments where some people say he has a bright future and others say he's not doing well. Why people share a view on the former really puzzles me.
Am well aware that a lot of people are taken by some hype and emotions without having knowledge of the law. That legal counsel representing Thabo Bester is mediocre and I doubt if he will ever grow in his career and the reason why, am citing that, is that he quoted a case and relied on its principle in a wrong context, which it was even was set aside and dismissed.
furthermore, the case was not even supposed to be heard since it's not in a criminal procedure act , it involves correctional service and their behavior towards his accused.
How is it that one become confident when his case is does not even have merits and directed to the wrong court considering jurisdiction?
Its mere stubbornness as a defense mechanism and delusion. I feel sorry for people who will consult him.
42:15 Judge: all the cases you have quoted have nothing to do with this case
Kushubile! 🤣
Council, do not lose sight of what Bester has done, and will continue henious acts still to come. Remember that we have to protect the law abiting citizens. You probably have a groding family. There was a dead body that was burnt, .... a mother is still crying. But you are fighting for a criminal... what for,? The money ? Eish.
His a lawyer doing his work.. Everyone is entitled to advocacy. Don't bring emotions
They were mybe in the same class. The lawyer sound confused😂
He was driving on the wrong lane hence the judge is almost impatient and to others sound rude, which is to me is unfair comment to throw to her...the lawyer is floundering and she wants to put him back in line...28/11/2024
This tjop loves his own voice
Her Ladyship can't handle the heat of Advocate Lerato
The judge is rude agains the fellow Advocate.
if this was a young black lady being managed in this way by a male judge. feminists would have been on steroids
This judge is disrespectful and arrogant.In my view she got it wrong.The matter has already been before the criminal court and all she had to do was to determine whether the matter is civil or criminal,thats all.
If the judge was white then we would be singing racism
I thought the lawyer was rude.. he is trying to lecture the judge
This judge is rude😢
Iyoo this lawyer can talk none stop like Ginindja
I think he's trying to impress Bester so that he don't fire him😅😅😅
I first thought it was Gininda
Umgumlilo ovuthayo😂💃💃
The judge should have refused to hear the matter before the other interested parties are joined and served.
Don't know the Lawyers why waisted their time because this case is clear, Bester and Mgudumane, they are Devels
I get the judges point, the NPA is a party in these proceedings and there's a relief sought against it, therefore they need to be before court in their own capacity and not as a legal representative of the state.
Wow, thanks for standing illitated, sister. I think the judge is actually trying to make him stronger. She Considered that he is young and still have to plead his case before real hostile Judges. I only see a mother trying to push his son. I hope he sees the love in her heart. As for me I can't wait to clarify with my professor whether the legal argument can be argued on principle or facts only. I hope other law students enjoy this game of wits as I have.
I am eager to hear someone who understands what Adv Lerato was upto here. I certainly couldn't follow.
Are these civil, criminal or Constitutional Court proceedings..?
She’s not there to be a mother, she’s fucken rude
@@silentchikamhi1341 He was challenging the directive. Remember the issue before Court was one. is to determine whether the matter can be heard on civil and or criminal. He was simply saying the case law says that such matter is dealt with in criminal because its covered by section 35 it is a criminal matter. The directive is wrong. And if the state is not ready they must pay costs. His submission today was that, we ought to be before criminal matter this is a criminal matter it cannot be regulated by civil rules. This is one of the difficult cases its like committal. Contempt of Court is a civil matter regulated by civil rules but takes a form of criminal consequences. Lay people struggle they listen to President Zuma rhetoric. The judge tried to ridicule him and he stood his ground. And pushed back and I can tell you he is better place for appeal. interplay between section 35 and civil procedure is complicated. he simplified it. The defence of facts that the judge tried he attacked it very quickly and directly because he was aware. Check the case of EFF and see how justice Bhaqwa was ridiculed by justice Collopen. Not all Judges are that smart some judges are planted by certain section in the bench man.
I Saw ADV LERATO MOELA AND WATCHED IMMEDIATELY!!!
Just like me....this is a product of Adv D Mpofu SC and he argues with amazing passion and quotes the law ...he is definitely winning this case come rain come sunshine....yiBoss le....he is just like his mentor....The judge will bow to his direction...28/11/2024
I highly doubt it I don't agree with your sentiments.....@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7usbut he failed to answer a simple lesson. Where is the state?
The question is simple, where are the parties you want relief against? This is simple. This is not Ex parte application
Are you saying directive that has pleadings that are closed must have a different case and is served afresh? Interesting precedence that you are setting CJ. lol
@@user-Benisto What you failing to understand is that the matter in its inception in the criminal court was defective of which that defect continues on to this current civil process.
In the criminal court the same issues raised by this judge were raised by the criminal judge that you can't cite the state and claim relief against the state because that is vague and broad and may include just about any public or state entity. He should have cited the NPA as is common practice. The relief he seeks in his papers are absurd in criminal procedures. A declaration of invalidity cannot be made in a criminal court.
What i don't agree with the judge is that she takes issue with him citing the correctional services where the order that he seeks will have a direct impact on them.
Thabo Bester is seeking a laptop to resume his fraudulent activities. He also wishes to be among the rest of the prison population to plan another escape. Bester's legal team is focusing on trivial matters to buy time, allowing him to devise a new escape plan. They have no substantial case, period.
I agree with you. Bester is on plan B. By refusing him a laptop they are delaying his plans of scamming people and fraudulent activities. By putting him with other prisoners he will get a chance to speak to corrupt wardens to assist him to escape. He better wait like everyone. Bester is a crook that can't be trusted
This boy is delusional....can't answer simple questions... I wonder what is going on in his mind on daily basis....
Thabo Bester inja yegame
He doesn't even take the hint of the court that he was wrong?
Why do they wast alot of money on this criminal,there are a lot of people starving in Sa
So true why are they waisting money on a person who is guilty why does he have so much rights wasting tax payers money dragging so many case's on and on and on so sickening
I have one question to the judge what does she means when she say i can see you're getting quiet excited for what you're doing why does she get into that part?
keeping order in her court
i felt the same, it was so unnecessary and i think he did right in responding 'some of the comments are unfair to me'
what is the applicattion for?
I feel for Moela shame😂😂
😂😂😂😂 hay fundamentals 😂😂😂 akunzima e court kule iveki
Dis lawyer is jst hokers pokers😂😂😂rock n roll dis boy his playing 😂😂
Mr Moela never served the opponents...hence he finds it difficult to respond...28/11/2024
Which Respondents bro because this is an opposed motion?
Listen to the engagement with the Court then you will know exactly who the respondents are or should have been....the court made herself very clear...29/11/2024
The judge is laughing, like its a comedy show. You never allow him to finish his points.
Did she say "I can see you are getting excited with whatever you are doing" kkkkkkk
Is the lawyer newly qualified
Who set the matter down kanti?
Concessions 😢 are necessary at times
What law is this guy following..The Judge is right
Very right Indeed....29/11/2024
Expand please
Mr Moela is asking prayers from Respondents that are not there in court to defend themselves....he did not serve them so that they build a defence or response to his allegations....eg Minister of Correctional service....etc...29/11/2024
Bester is not going to win any case with this lawyer, noise maker
Thabo Bester's lawyer seems to be very lost
Mntungwa this guy is winning today come rain come sunshine he argues with amazing passion justike Adv D Mpofu SC and he is mentored by him...hence he is so passionate and forceful...phez kwabo Mr Moela phez kwabo you are on the right track....bazakugoba....it has been a long time hearing a lawyer arguing so forceful quoting law and cases....with such a high pitch voice....that judge izakugoba today....28/11/2024
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us NO wonder you are unemployed !
Haybo my brother......what are you saying????? 29/11/2024
@@ThembaMayekiso-vk7us he is not being not nice
Who is he that is not being nice???? 29/11/2024
Seems like Thabo has more facts than his Rasta lawyer...
A fair trail without Audi alturem partem
The judge is so irritated very impatient
This kid is taking chances.
A simple procedure to bring the respondent to court. Adv Moela is missing the point at all. You can't argue the case without proper serving
I'm shocked as well. He loves taking chances in the name of taking chances 😂😂
😂
@@VonaniMaluks Hewas misled by Mpofu.
@@GeniusLilais he working with him?🤔🤔
Ths Judge 👩⚖️
Why is he referring to a laptop
Thabo Bester must stop waisting his money on lawyers and just stay in jail.
He will be out on parole after 25 years
@@PreciousLefutswe ... that is if he will get any... by the look of things?🥹🥹🥹🥹
He will stay in jail but first he must tell who he was working with except Nandipha
I also dont think he is going to get parole ,because he embarrassed the country a d the correctional services
And because he reoffended it's not gonna be 25 but 37, mark my words
@thulaninkosi9700 ijoo
The AI is really making everything to be a mess , the young man seems to be confused by its interpretations...hence he is lost in the midst of confusion...
This judge doesn’t question or interject when the opposition is on the stand but the way she’s anticipating to interject when this advocate is on stand roots for biasness… i cant🚮
she was trying to block facts that can lead to appeal. she did that deliberately. But here, the matter was live they do this think all the time when judges are planted. they make sure that facts that shall hurt her points are not on the recorded. Its an old trick. With time Lerato shall learn to take notes. and keep quite. And then sought leave to respond. When you do that, you then make a Judge Counsel making submission on behalf of the respondent other than inquiring about the case. The duty of the Judge is to understand your case and not to argue against your case. Judge argue in the judgement base on the facts and the law not to establish new principles. It come with time. he shall master that, Counsel Mkhari does it better and he attacks judge who are generally with respect dizzy very well. Judge Brown was dealt with trying these tendencies.
I thinknthis advocate can be a suitable advocate at Ratha's court. Same energy
Thie drinking of water now and then means something
Her Ladyship is failing to understand that the relevant parties were served in a different court on the very matter and that this is not a different matter but a decision that needs to be taken by her Ladyship.
No one is listening to the other.
That's my point
How can you enter into matter alone,you cant.The state is not here!!
Why should it be there, put different why should it be served with papers?
IT SEEMS LIKE PRE-TRIAL MEETING WAS NOT CONDUCTED ⚖️🇿🇦
Justice
Can't she let him finish talking yhooo
Dali’s scholar. Shame
Court ethics????
Indeed Chart....Ethics tell us to respect the presiding officer even if you differ with her...29/11/2024
This guy is just excited to be a lawyer for bester .. talking fast like a school boy
Unfortunate he is not Zuma. Who is paying for this lawyer/advocate
Slow on the water pal. U going to pee soon .😂😂😂
Thabo is fully and or intact represented.Lera is a researcher man. Some Judges do not read law and they have tendencies of being bully. With Lerato the law is the law. He pregnant of case law. I am glad that the presiding officer finally conceded when they were debating Moyo. I think she realised that, to push coffee table and strange directive shall compromise her. lol their coffee talks with the JP and the Ministers are exposed here lol. ka ka ka ka ka. Lol, hardy Lerato, the Court was very hostile. But you pushed back in the parameters of law. It take tenacity and definitely not LLB alone but other degrees to master such focus. Hay ke i state attoney ngokutyisa amangamla. Lol
I’m shocked at how the judge doesn’t understand the application of legal principles in a precedent 😢😂
@@rirhandzulovemoremashele9944 These coffee table of these people shall always shock you broer. Lerato was ready for Rule 49. Appeal so that she can be dealt with by SCA and his JP. We need to guard against the abuse of administrative of Justice. What is clear here is that, the state has massed up and they are trying to manage their administrative blunder via intimidating. This generation especially young professionals must refuse this abuse. In Nigeria our colleagues are fighting this abuse. Once a Judge starts funny thing, lawyers must appeal him. Remember appeal minimizes chances of their upwards mobility. Lawyer must not be scared anything that seeks to suggest nonsensical decision against trite law appeal. That is why she run away. To be quite honest she was embarrassed, even her colleagues especially Justices are watching what shall come out of this JP mass.
@@rirhandzulovemoremashele9944 My brother as I am texting you. I ought to be before Court on the 18th December 2024 based on extreme urgency. The Court did not process the application. seemingly they sat and gave each other seemingly orders that are obtained unlawfully. I sat the matter again on the 22 December 2024. The University come to argue that I do not have a contract with them generally with respect nonsensical argument. I demonstrated in papers and from the bar as well that, the University seems not only to be dizzy, but dishonest and their case is hopeless and necessitate cost bonis de propriss. Guess what, I got an order ex temporer. Only to discover that, the clerk together with the attorney typed an order that has no effect. i arrive at my home. I am still denied access. I am left with no choice but to move on extreme urgent basis rule 42 and send my draft order. If I am not entertain I have to approach ConCourt. There is an issue of section 29 (1) (b) and section 26 (3) and 164 that I believe I can get an order ex parte with rule nisi. This is how our Court have degenerated and how the poor especially black and African are treated. This does not only happen in the western cape only but Gauteng also there are some JP that believe to be super JP because of thier proximity to whiteness. Hence we are in this mass. Its a mass man.
A Young Advocate 😢 Vs Judge 😢
He honed these skills from Mpofu SC....he will be double sharper than his mentor ...18/12/2024