Just for people to bear in mind: a Judo brown belt is not the equivalent of a BJJ brown belt. In BJJ the black belt is the "last", whereas in Judo it is, in a sense, the first. 1st Dan (degree) is the initial rank of a "fully fledged" judoka.
@@burghleyli2693 Yeah but that's meant more like in a poetic way. After 8-10 years it's not really a "beginning", but it makes you consider things in a life-long perspective. In Judo most people obtain their 1st degree bb after 3-5 years, which doesn't equate to "mastery" as with the BJJ bb, just to "now I'm a person you can safely spar with and gain something out of it".
The thing with Judo is that throws are meant to put somebody on the ground considering it as a hard surface. There is a ton of difference between landing on concrete and on a mat. That's why a high school wrestler may hit you with a double leg in the street and more often that not you are DONE. The softness of the mat helps recover and react quicker. Still I believe cross training is probably the best option if you have the time and money
You’re not gonna shoot on a Muaythai practitioner the way you doing wrestling and jiu-jitsu. You have to be more pragmatic and understand that ending up in a clinch, where a kickboxer can smash your face with knees is not a good place. I wrestled for a while, but my main studies now are kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. I feel well rounded.
@@irishsavage8715 I meant my comment in a street fight situation, considering you are never going to fight (hopefully) a trained muay thai practitioner on the street. If you do, maybe you should reconsider the whole situation lol
That is not what it is really. Judo throws are meant for the thrower to gently guide you to the floor so that you won't get hurt - to avoid injuries. The goal is to hit the opponents back on the mat without head bang and without them just dropping, that's why you hold the control until the end and don't fall on your opponent if it's a really clean throw. And the throws have quite good follow ups to wrestling for pin after the throw if you keep the control, there's solid progessions and things you have to defend against. In fact you are penalized harshly for poorly executed or dangerous throws and dangerous throws have been removed from competitive judo. Which goes to emphasize the point that you aren't learning street fighting skills. To extend that, judo is a sport. And furthermore if you talk to a decent self-defence trainer, your goal is not to use judo but your legs - to run if your mouth wasn't enough to defuse the situation. It's just not that good of a take to start arguing judo for street fight, gives people wrong ideas about judo and alarming situations.
Cross training can be the best depending on your goals ofc. Focusing on one sport if you are competing is probably the thing to do as there is only so much time. If you are doing mma or just want to otherwise be well rounded for fun and what not then cross training is great.
@@Yupppia judoka can choose to keep control or not, if they let go mid air mat or not it’s gonna hurt. On top of that, if someone doesn’t know breakfall they will still hit their head or get whiplash
In my judo school we do newaza and nage waza so BJJ guys always have a hard time when they visit us, but judo is not the same everywhere. Some schools focus more on standing techniques a d other on ground techniques. Anyway, interesting video and nice sparring
Hayashi dojo in El Paso has been teaching kosen since 1955 their ne waza light up BJJ guys on the mat all the time.Steve Scott's judo club and Gokor's school are also every bit as good on the mat as any BJJ school.
There's so much cross training at this point that these matchups mostly come down to the individual. For me, a five set ne waza practice could include rolling with a Judo Olympian, a D-1 wrestler, a BJJ World Champion, a Sambo Master of Sport, and a random Judo white belt who knows way more ground techniques than their belt would suggest. You just never know.
i trained bjj and judo in a swiss judo school. Our bjj trainer was a brasilian 2nd degree backbelt and absolute master of his craft winning the london open in both -70kg and the absolut division aswell as other famous championships. Claudio Rocha if you wanna look him up. Our judo coach was a swiss judo guy ranked 4. dan or something. Before Claudio came to the gym as a bjj coach, the judo guy did train newaza and choosen and also went to local swiss championships, winning some of them. Nonetheless he was not nearly as experienced in ground fighting than the bjj guy. Then in one bjj session the judo guy came by and had a roll with us all. Overall very gentle, easygoing and cool. He tossed the bjj guys like toys but never hurting them, because he controlled the fall, further no bjj guy could ever take him down. 0 chance. He just smiled all the attacks off. Then at the end of the session he and claudio went for it. This was one of the most technical, beautiful yet effective displays of judo i ever witnessed. And his opponent was by no means a newcomer as i just mentioned. Claudio went in for a hip throw kind of attack, but the judo guy perfeclty anticipated it and duck under for a 'kata guruma' or firemans throw as the wrestlers call it. Damm, that was a thing of beauty! Then he rolled claudio over his shoulder, rolled with him and caught in a 'americana from side controll'. You clearly saw the brasilian fighting with his ego and he didnt let himself tap that fast. I could rarely believe what im witnessing because back then i never say anybody even coming close to tapping Claudio. Even at open mats other blackbelts repidedly got chocked pretty fast by him. But this swiss sturdy little judo guy hold on to that shoulder crank for so long, it was a pain to watch. And Claudio finally had to submitt to it. And yes, Claudio wanted a other round after it, where he tapped the judo guy witha guilotine as a revenge. But we all were kinda schocked, since this was next level. The anticiption, the counter setup, the counter, to roll into, the grap, the submission. All was just perfect! Thats when i realised one simple thing: its not about the art, but the artist. Every art can work, if you pratice it well enough and often enough!
bulshidojutsus always do that. they always set up the spar to their advantage then claim bjj is superior. i have zero respect for bjj. it was founded upon LIES and DECEPTION. no respect for that kind of "art".
In judo its counter productive. Judo are throwsband tactics taken from a combat system. The throws are designed and practiced to hurt an apponent and allow you to get to a weapon. In japanese systems, weapons are always primary modes of attacking. You never want to have to rely on hand to hand combat in the real world. It is allways a bad thing. Judo doesnt scramble for a ground position because its bad to go to the ground, no soldier would ever willingly go to the ground, its just stupid. Actually, when fighting, the goal is yo getbaway to a weapon first. Hand to hand combat is to risky for both persons. Judo represents more realistic scenario. You throw and stay standing. If they come back, you are ready to run or fight again.
In judo rules, you would have lost in the first minuite(if you get thrown on your back you lose.) You have amazing groundwork, i learnd a lot. Thank you🙏
I've practiced both and I love BJJ. However, to be honest, I find it ridiculous that a BJJ practitioner would just sit down at the beginning of a fight. I consider this tactic childish and believe it's only applicable because the opponent can't kick you.
While I agree with you, others will say “you’re there to train bjj, not stand and grip fight for 6mins”. Both are true. Never neglect training take downs but repetition is of the most importance. Positional sparring, starting from open guard, on the knees, and any other position is great practice to elevate specific areas of your game. I would avoid pulling guard, even if I am a guard player, being on top is never a bad thing.
I completely agree. However Wrestling is far superior... roll with a BB that was at least collegiate level, without your PJ's, that Gonna be a rude awakening. It trumps Judo It won't even be close. Even Travis Stevens would have no chance. Once you take the jacket off most of the throws are a dumbed down less sophisticated version of greco roman wrestling but with an exposed posture. Add the legs from freestyle, high crotch, single or double leg, and ankle picks and its all she wrote. Wrestling is THE stand up grappling art to end them all. Most No Gi schools wrestle at least half the time and that's why they are leading the way through innovation like Gordan is. Danaher almost never talks about Judo anymore, we all know why.
its not fair , a normal bjj black belt equals a judo 3th dan black belt.. plus, this bjj guy is a world class he probably shall face an judo athlete who competes national championship...
And in spite of a strength, weight and experience advantage the judoka still put him on his back with a pretty well executed drop seio nage. Clearly, Judo did work that day 😂
Judo vs BJJ reminds me of legendary fight between Helio Gracie vs Masahiko Kimura. "Hélio did not surrender, and Kimura rotated the arm until it broke. As Gracie still refused to give up, Masahiko twisted the arm further and broke it again. Finally, when the judoka was about to twist it a third time, Gracie's corner threw the towel, and Kimura was declared winner."
In that match, Kimura planned to knock Helio out with throws. Helio was thrown repeatedly, but was not knocked out. Kimura did get Helio in a choke, but Helio refused to tap. Kimura let the choke go, as he did not want to actually kill Helio. This was all within three minutes of the fight. 10 mins. more, Kimura broke Helio's arm. The headlines in Brazil with large print on the paper, was Helio Victory, but the small print of moral right before victory. Equivalent to "moral VICTORY!" It was later discovered the Gracies used thick heavy padding to make Kimura's throws essentially ineffective and of course Helio admitted decades later, that if Kimura did not let go of the choke, then Helio himself would have died. The tall tales from the Gracies continued, like Kimura weighed 50 lbs. to 80lbs. more than Helio.
I believe in never limiting myself. I love Wrestling, Judo, Ju Jitsu, Muay Thai, Karate, Hapkido, and so on. I implement Judo and Ju Jitsu and Wrestling when it comes to grappling.
judo throws if mastered properly are probably the best, because you can do them without exposing vital areas like the neck or head to various strikes or chokes but they are so hard, 1 throw might take you 2 years to be just good at.
That knee slide to mount is a very small but important detail. I see all the time in UFC, guys will try to leap their leg over to get the mount and end up in butterfly guard instead. Very good technical stuff in this roll from all Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ
@@rns7426 Haha Kazumi is just Tyler trolling ;) I think for Uki Waza you would go more straight down between Uke's legs, not on the outside. Sort of like Sumi Gaeshi but without the leg to kick them over which makes it somewhat likely that they faceplant if they are not aware of what is happening.
@@bjarneschmalbach1524 lots of variations for uki waza. I would definitely call it that. Whether it is a down the middle or off to the side it still looks the same. BJJ has a on the butt collar drag version of it. Forget what they like to call it. When I saw it In BJJ class it was still an uki waza. Of course my coach looks at me like I’m crazy when I tell them the Japanese names for it. The links I dropped I’d call both uki waza. Here’s an example of the judo version. th-cam.com/users/shortsUjv9BD0oZzs?si=GLwNG1CILRhyu6Wm A standing BJJ version: th-cam.com/users/shortsiSaruR9XfiM?si=_n8osXcujdxwxDdT
Did judo the entire 1980ies and the onset of the 1990ies. Thanks to the concept of 'Olypic Judo' we Judoka lost tons of techniques. Rules from outside were forced upon us like no standing leg grabs. No chockes under green belts. Ones the fight goes to the ground, like in boxing, they stand you back up. Some friends of mine who are in BJJ ask me and eachother wether or not BJJ should become an Olympic discipline. DO NOT DO IT! Those Olympic commities will castrate your martial art into a sport fit for old ladies. My martial arts friends in BJJ, from a Judoka who witnessed the downfall of functional Judo, like taught to the Japanese army in the 1930ies. With on the ground training TO FINISH THE JOB! Horrible time in hystory, but Judo was great and inspirational by being EFFECTIVE and EFFICIENT. These days, man, it is form, kata and the 6 techniques favored by the Olympic commity.
My judo club does tons of newaza as well as throws it's a 2.5 to 3 hr class 2 days a week but we also have bjj classes 3 days a week. I also learned the basic judo double leg I prefer this particular double leg to th wrestling one because you dont have to necessarily follow them to the ground and ot uses way more off balance and leverage to do I also like it because my long arms can reep the legs up easy while my head pushes them over I usually place my head on the upper most part of the chest directly on between the 2 collar bones creating more leverage and less likely to be cought in a head lock or punched that high up
We never lost any techniques. Judo still teaches everything from Japanese Ju Jutsu, it's legacy. We just don't in competitions, as joint lock and neck wrenching kills your Uki
@@MichaelEhlineDepends highley on the gym. Due to the olympic rules, gyms will and do focus on the olympic rule set more. If your train at a gym that does a lot of classic judo cool, but that’s not most gyms.
@@ethanchaney1139 are you speaking from personal experience. I have trained at multiple dojos and BJJ academies and I find that Judo senseis are pretty uniform, unlike most BJJ academies. The Japanese tradition and respect militate in favor of uniformity
Judo is amazing. I think as a lifetime pursuit is it absolutely equal to BJJ. That said, on the ground (and especially earlier in your training) BJJ definitely has the advantage. For the record I’m a judo brown (sankyu) and 4 stripe white belt (hopefully soon a blue belt!) in BJJ.
I used to train with judo black belts when i was a blue belt and destroyed most of them. If a Judo guy learns Jiu Jitsu thats what makes them tough to beat the JJ not the Judo.
@@badtrekee4348 As I said, BJJ has the advantage. This is because it's easier to end a fight with newaza (groundfighting) than with tachiwaza (takedowns and throws). BJJ guys are almost always better on the ground, so they tend to win over judoka in submission based combat. BUT high level judoka have beaten high level BJJ guys several times back when there was more style v style matchups. They call the submission a Kimura because Kimura, a judoka, used it to beat Helio. Another example is Yoshida, a judoka, beating Royce. And in a street fight a good throw or slam can end a fight. So yes, BJJ tends to beat Judo. But don't underestimate it! Everyone Cross trains nowadays, but it's not BJJ that makes judo great. Judo is amazing all on its own. And we wouldn't have BJJ without it.
@@vibovitold Constrained compared to what? Sure it has more rules today than when it was created. But more rules than other grappling sports? I wouldn't say that. Just different.
That doesn’t throw was NOT a sacrifice throw. You may have said that because you felt embarrassed and made it bigger than what it was. It is upon seoi nage, a forward throwing technique. He used a version where you drop to your knees. The call it drop seo
@@ninjaatori 100% Alex also rolled through to be nice to Tyler. In reality, Tyler's counter was too weak to safely get top position. But it was a nice attempt
It depends on what the rules are. This is apples to oranges. In a Judo tournament, the Judo guy would win because the match would be over with the throw. In a BJJ tournament, the BJJ guy would win because the Judo throw would not count. That being said, all black belts (in any discipline) are not equal. A Judo brown belt from Gokor Chivichyan's school, would eat your lunch. They train in everything.
Very Interesting video….. the scramble after throw really is sorted by training transition from Tachi Waza(Standing) to Newaza(Ground Work) which is sometimes not always trained as regularly as Judo contest it’s all about the IPPON! that said a good brown belt and above with transition game would be very different contest in my opinion
It was different in Judo pre-2000. I won 75% of my matches on the ground, mostly by submissions. Back then, folks didn't care about a clean throw as much as most of the time you just wanted to get a dominant position for a pin or submission.
Imagine if this had not been 'sport' in a fully matted dojo. Would the throw @00:55 had a different outcome if it had been onto concrete or tarmac? @04:55 or @06:30 from standing onto concrete... you judge how this would have changed how this would have likely progressed....
BJJ = BASICALLY JUST JUDO Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. “Conde Koma”, began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano’s Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name “Judo” was not popularized until 1925. Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as “pulling-guard” in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu). There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting “Gracie Jiu-Jitsu” or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie’s loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a “moral victory”. More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano’s original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods.
Interesting example. I was doing judo for about 4 years when I decided to check out a Bjj club, of course the trainer put me against some purple belt with a few white stripes on them. He was a bit taller then me, probably the same weight. It was a great ne waza but he didnt manage to choke me out nor the get me in a hold. Learn some awesome moves on that class. The guy spanked my ass in the end of ne waza so i didnt go there anymore. Anyways!! I saw that there is a huge strength and grip gap between us. I would be really happy to see you doing a randori with someone who is more dynamic, has a better grip and is a bit more relaxed. The wrist bar was nice tho.
In the good old days of Judo, there were only white belt for the 5 Kyu 級 and black belt for the 5 Dan 段 in Judo. Later, in 1913, the brown belt was introduced to experienced Kyu players in 3 to 1 kyu, and then color belts were invented by the British Judo Association in 1926 and later half-color belts for other Kyu were invented by the French. Kano awarded his best student Saigo Shiro 西鄉 after Saigo passed away. Evebtually dan expanded and white-red belt for kodansha when 6 to 10 dan were introduced. In Sumo during training, only senior rikishi in the top two divisions (the sekitori) are allowed to wear white mawashi. In Shuaijiao, yellow jacket and belt could only be worn when awarded by the Emperors. Chang Dong Sheng introduced a belt system in Taiwan and later the US. It didn't go far. In last 40 or so years old coaches who had won championship before started to wear yellow belt. So if you are a Judo or BJJ guy who go to a Sumo beya or Shuaijiao gym, do not think a white belt or yellow belt is easy target.😂
Tyler, you should roll with one of the miyao brothers. As a Jiu-Jitsu practitioner and fan of both I'd love to see you roll with either of the brothers. I'm sure they'd love the collab ❤❤
It’s only aikido & Bjj nerds butthurt that Judo has whooped their art on a regular basis for decades on end. They have to go & pick midgets to try to get wins
Wonderful video! Truly "scientific" studies of martial arts are impossible because of variables like differences in strength and skill levels of opponents. But this is an excellent comparison with great narration.
I do struggle to see why folks differentiate judo and wrestling as if they are 2 separate things. Modern judo due to the rule set is certainly restrictive. However, the judo of 15+ years ago was effectively just wrestling in a gi, leg grabs, pick-ups all allowed. I think this point needs to be made more clear.
I did Judo in the 80s and 90s. Stopped for university and went back around 2005 for fitness. It was 100% a different sport. I was late 30s and could absolutely destroy younger kids on the ground -- if the silly rules weren't in effect. I left because the sport had gotten too far away from its roots to the point it wasn't practical. Why can't you continue on the ground? Because it doesn't look good in the Olympics is a stupid answer. Today, I don't mind people saying Judo is different than wresting. Most competitors are young and learned post 2000, so as a sport 90% of Judoka you see today cannot wrestle or face a BJJ guy.
That's certainly how it looks like "from the outside", but Judo has a lot of stuff that doesn't exist in wrestling. The way you are taught to move is different. The way you deal with things is different. The time to master judo technicalities is much longer than wrestling (or BJJ, aka Judo Ne Waza, for that matter), because the movements are originally based on subtle imbalance and sensing, not pure muscle leverage like wrestling. That said, sports Judo has done a lot to destroy all the original finesse
This is a obviously definitive, end all discussion on judo vs jujitsu. Thank you for this video and for ending the great "Judo/ jujitsu" war. We are saved 🥹
Double leg is a part of judo. Find some old timers in a club and ask to learn the judo they were taught. You would be shocked if you are lucky enough to find someone willing to share what they were taught.
So the answer of the initial question of the video is simple: none is better or both are better. The Judo brown was clearly better in the stand up game even though his opponent is much more advanced. The BJJ black belt was dominating on the ground as he should against a non-black belt grappler. Video was fun to watch! Really really cool
On a hard surface most judo throws will result in injury for the opponent. A BJJ player can be great on the ground, but after getting slammed those skills are not going to be very useful. Plus a skilled judoka almost always has a final say whether to follow to the ground or not.
Yes man a skilled judoka slams a BJJ player to peaces on the hard concrete , but if the BJJ guy survive the trow and the judoka have to do ground work then BJJ will win. But we will never see that kind of videos only training videos where there are tatami (matts)
@@TylerSpangler more like japanese terms, also their are guys in judo with really good groundgame and can hold their own and even sub bjj black belts but most of them are japan. judo groudwork standards have fallen since the late 80s.
@@هذاأنا-ذ3ث Judo groundwork is a bit different, because in Judo the ref will get you both back on your feet unless something happens very quickly. so their window of opportunity is very narrow. it's for that reason that Kosen Judo highlights are a pleasure to watch, because when they submit the guy, it's blazingly fast, like boom to the ground we go, and an armbar (or whatever) 2 seconds later. in bjj you get to work towards the submission, and you can't lie down on your belly trying to wait it out : ) this difference changes the game very much.
Offhand, where I respect both systems --Judo seems more well-rounded than BJJ. And kinda lost why BJJ is referred to as "Jiu-jitsu," when traditional Jiu-jitsu is a complete fighting system using strikes/kicks, throws, joint locks, and submission techniques and BJJ doesn't.
Hi Tyler Spangler. I'm Karate. I think BJJ is great. Wrestling has been show to be a challenge all throughout the MMA world. Just want to mention a couple of points. 1. Judo Ground Game Lacking. People criticize Judo's ground game and it's true the training emphasis is not always there. So its not surprising that you could outdo your opponent on that score. 2. Judo vs. Wrestling. Judo's a traditional martial art; hence it's designed for self defense. The postures that wrestlers take in particular is vulnerable to strikes; same often holds for BJJ. Judo is designed to defend against strikes. 3. Fragmented Training. Some criticize Judo for training the techniques in an isolated setting. Then when one goes into a competitive situation or fight, the opponent is resisting and they can't work their technique. We see the same criticism of karate basics. BJJ emphasizes more "rolling." A quick answer is Judo philosophy is to master the intricacies of the technique first... then move onto application. Ultimately, Randori which is a key component of Judo training... addresses the actual conflict scenario. 4. BJJ's Technical Emphasis. I feel BJJ's strong point, one of them, is it's technical emphasis, particularly when moving to the ground. IMO, really difficult to learn too. Judo provides some solid basic building blocks in contrast. 5. Injuries. I can't speak for BJJ. Judo is designed to be risk free. All the problems I have witnessed stem from practitioners straying from the "gentle way" philosophy and employing physical aggression. The typical sport mentality 🤗🤗including wrestling. Judo proper never forces technique, the technique does all the work.. People are too reactive and too tense, and this likely explains why their break falls are hurtful. Nice video.👍👍
Hmm. So I’m a single strip white belt in Bjj. And a white belt inn judo. During Bjj class yesterday, rolling, i wanted to hit a white belt throw O goshi or dehashi hari. But the Bjj stance is so far away o wasn’t able to hit them let alone attempt them. So i wanted to see the application… This video confirmed the problem i saw. A “simple” sweep isn’t applicable unless they’re standing every erect. Good video.
In classic Judo, that Uchimata countered by Yoko Otoshi is an ippon for the counter but not in IJF Judo. Donbai Kuwabata have a good Newaza and Nagewaza. Maybe try collaborate with him. Gotta watch it.
The main problem in these videos is that most of BJJ guys are probably in a good competitive level, and call Judokas from the USA... It would be interesting to the this with european or asian judokas, or top USA judokas... I'm not a hater but, even Junior brown belts in Judo (With real competitive training) will probably take you down in style...
Jiu-Jitsu really works than Judo...when no strike rules with gi I saw many bjj practitioners dominated by Judoka in uni The biggest difference was physical issues, bjjs were really thin and easy to be koed
Judo is from Ju jitsu, but for what You speak of Judo is THE THING. The ju-jitsu You reffer is derived from Judo, and is BJJ, not Ju-jitsu. And just to answer generaly: Judo all day every day.
I am only a blue belt so I'm not sure if I'm incorrect, but isn't the thing you're calling an Ezekiel choke a paper cutter choke? I could be wrong and feel free to school me on my ignorance if that's the case.
90% of judo players will lose to a BJJ black because all throws end on the mat, and unless there is a referee to shout “ippon,” the match continues. BJJ has a much large repertoire of moves, whereas judo bans throws every Olympic cycle
Man I've done bjj since I was 13 and judo off and on if we as a jiu-jitsu collective where to bring a judo program's into most bjj schools it would re-merge the art making it complete again ,honestly we would be unstoppable. I see a bjj black belt struggling to take down and I see a judo brown or purple belt struggling on the ground.
@@pedromoreira393Blame UFC and the rule changes they institutionalized starting in year 2000. That was when BJJ started to abandon it's Judo roots. Those UFC rules starting back then were made to create environments more favorable to Striking Martial Artists and Wrestlers. Strikes by someone from the bottom of the guard, weight classes, more restrictive time limits, etc. It turned MMA into overglorified kickboxing with wrestling because Americans only enjoy boxing and wrestling and combat sports that operate under similar rules.
@@joeruiz4010 yeah that's true, americans destroy everything they touch, now we have a new hype arround sambo, russians, dagestanis etc, it's all about the money.
If Kimura were alive he'd probably be banned from modern Jiu-Jitsu competitions if tried to transition to them. His Judo throws were pretty much knockouts. When someone can throw you hard enough to the ground to knock you unconcious, you won't have a chance to use BJJ.
Judo is great for explosive aggression and a lot of throws lead to great ground positions for submissoin. That said, I am just learning ju-jitsu and I am really old, so I lean into my judo a lot.
What do you think, I've heard multiple times that bjj players hate nothing more than wrestling a judoka on the mat? I think I've heard some places don't have equal amounts of mat wrestling though. I don't think you can gauge his skills based on a video like this, but I was slightly surprised by the passiveness and lack of preventing you from even getting in positions given he's a brown belt. Obviously you played good, but I did expect less opportunities, more legs locked between thighs and you having to wrestle your way to the pins. In judo the uchimata attempt would've probably been a clean point for him, attempted a throw and you landed on your full back under him, no questions asked about scoring. But I could be wrong about that. The standing grappling in general looked a bit weird throughout the video. Feels like he was trying to style you, uchimata is one of those luxurious specialist throws that take an eternity to master or get good at, and sacrificial throws in general are a bit sketchy unless you execute them really well - meaning that you take full advantage of your opponents slacking position to attempt, and if you're doing it right, it looks convincing and inevitable, not tumbling around loosely. Then again, it's just a march for fun, shouldn't really judge too pedantically. I'm just thinking his on feet grappling should've been way more advantaged compared to yours. Like the grips used, grip fights going pretty even and the throw attempts having a lot of slack. Would've expected way more leg sweeps and perhaps hip throw attempts, some arm throws. In my opinion those are the bread and butter of on feet judo and easiest to score. And winning grip battles should be a big part of it. I think you won all of them, he did make a couple of uncomfortable positions for you but didn't take advantage over them and didn't go for it. Lacked that grip battle to gain something to initiate to score. Those situations end up in quick and convincing scores in judo, on the contrary of judokas who play but don't know what they're aiming at and end up creating situations withour progression. Like the annoying collar grip you can't get rid of does nothing if you don't use it. What good is single arm collar grip until you throw your opponent. You even offered him an extended arm. Maybe it's because of the competition mentioned. A judo referee wouldn't have passed the non-adjusted gis for so long either. Good plays by you guys. He looked really exhausted by the end, probably explains why he wasn't defending anything on the mat. Like I didn't see a single cross hand collar grip to defend chokes against a bjj player.
Smothering like that when you were already dominating the wresting end of things, sort of a dick move like you admitted. Quick question: unless one's goal is to actually submit and tie up an intruder or something, why would the judoka willingly go into bjj rolling and wrestling vs a bjj/wrestler? Wouldn't they just stand up, let you stand up and proceed to throw you over and over again? And at that point, what stops the bjj guy from simply walking away?
I'm confused. He can use Judo and jujitsu while you can only use jujitsu while only on the ground with no wrestling technique to get him there. Right or wrong?
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Just for people to bear in mind: a Judo brown belt is not the equivalent of a BJJ brown belt. In BJJ the black belt is the "last", whereas in Judo it is, in a sense, the first. 1st Dan (degree) is the initial rank of a "fully fledged" judoka.
You learn something new every day!
So you sre saying it is easier to get a brown belt judoka
@@debsaye3360yes. And in time its between high blue and purple.
isn't that also like BJJ? My coaches always say the black belt is just the beginning as well.
@@burghleyli2693 Yeah but that's meant more like in a poetic way. After 8-10 years it's not really a "beginning", but it makes you consider things in a life-long perspective. In Judo most people obtain their 1st degree bb after 3-5 years, which doesn't equate to "mastery" as with the BJJ bb, just to "now I'm a person you can safely spar with and gain something out of it".
Standing up a judo guy is way better than the Jitsu guy for throws. If you take a world champion in judo, the jujitsu guy will never take him down.
Never say never.
How is the judoka supposed to win then against a bjj guy butt scooting to him
The thing with Judo is that throws are meant to put somebody on the ground considering it as a hard surface. There is a ton of difference between landing on concrete and on a mat. That's why a high school wrestler may hit you with a double leg in the street and more often that not you are DONE. The softness of the mat helps recover and react quicker. Still I believe cross training is probably the best option if you have the time and money
You’re not gonna shoot on a Muaythai practitioner the way you doing wrestling and jiu-jitsu. You have to be more pragmatic and understand that ending up in a clinch, where a kickboxer can smash your face with knees is not a good place. I wrestled for a while, but my main studies now are kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. I feel well rounded.
@@irishsavage8715 I meant my comment in a street fight situation, considering you are never going to fight (hopefully) a trained muay thai practitioner on the street. If you do, maybe you should reconsider the whole situation lol
That is not what it is really. Judo throws are meant for the thrower to gently guide you to the floor so that you won't get hurt - to avoid injuries. The goal is to hit the opponents back on the mat without head bang and without them just dropping, that's why you hold the control until the end and don't fall on your opponent if it's a really clean throw. And the throws have quite good follow ups to wrestling for pin after the throw if you keep the control, there's solid progessions and things you have to defend against.
In fact you are penalized harshly for poorly executed or dangerous throws and dangerous throws have been removed from competitive judo. Which goes to emphasize the point that you aren't learning street fighting skills.
To extend that, judo is a sport. And furthermore if you talk to a decent self-defence trainer, your goal is not to use judo but your legs - to run if your mouth wasn't enough to defuse the situation. It's just not that good of a take to start arguing judo for street fight, gives people wrong ideas about judo and alarming situations.
Cross training can be the best depending on your goals ofc. Focusing on one sport if you are competing is probably the thing to do as there is only so much time. If you are doing mma or just want to otherwise be well rounded for fun and what not then cross training is great.
@@Yupppia judoka can choose to keep control or not, if they let go mid air mat or not it’s gonna hurt. On top of that, if someone doesn’t know breakfall they will still hit their head or get whiplash
In my judo school we do newaza and nage waza so BJJ guys always have a hard time when they visit us, but judo is not the same everywhere. Some schools focus more on standing techniques a d other on ground techniques.
Anyway, interesting video and nice sparring
Hayashi dojo in El Paso has been teaching kosen since 1955 their ne waza light up BJJ guys on the mat all the time.Steve Scott's judo club and Gokor's school are also every bit as good on the mat as any BJJ school.
There's so much cross training at this point that these matchups mostly come down to the individual. For me, a five set ne waza practice could include rolling with a Judo Olympian, a D-1 wrestler, a BJJ World Champion, a Sambo Master of Sport, and a random Judo white belt who knows way more ground techniques than their belt would suggest. You just never know.
i trained bjj and judo in a swiss judo school. Our bjj trainer was a brasilian 2nd degree backbelt and absolute master of his craft winning the london open in both -70kg and the absolut division aswell as other famous championships. Claudio Rocha if you wanna look him up. Our judo coach was a swiss judo guy ranked 4. dan or something. Before Claudio came to the gym as a bjj coach, the judo guy did train newaza and choosen and also went to local swiss championships, winning some of them. Nonetheless he was not nearly as experienced in ground fighting than the bjj guy.
Then in one bjj session the judo guy came by and had a roll with us all. Overall very gentle, easygoing and cool. He tossed the bjj guys like toys but never hurting them, because he controlled the fall, further no bjj guy could ever take him down. 0 chance. He just smiled all the attacks off.
Then at the end of the session he and claudio went for it. This was one of the most technical, beautiful yet effective displays of judo i ever witnessed. And his opponent was by no means a newcomer as i just mentioned. Claudio went in for a hip throw kind of attack, but the judo guy perfeclty anticipated it and duck under for a 'kata guruma' or firemans throw as the wrestlers call it. Damm, that was a thing of beauty! Then he rolled claudio over his shoulder, rolled with him and caught in a 'americana from side controll'. You clearly saw the brasilian fighting with his ego and he didnt let himself tap that fast. I could rarely believe what im witnessing because back then i never say anybody even coming close to tapping Claudio. Even at open mats other blackbelts repidedly got chocked pretty fast by him. But this swiss sturdy little judo guy hold on to that shoulder crank for so long, it was a pain to watch. And Claudio finally had to submitt to it. And yes, Claudio wanted a other round after it, where he tapped the judo guy witha guilotine as a revenge. But we all were kinda schocked, since this was next level. The anticiption, the counter setup, the counter, to roll into, the grap, the submission. All was just perfect!
Thats when i realised one simple thing: its not about the art, but the artist. Every art can work, if you pratice it well enough and often enough!
@@janosch7210 I wish you recorded that
Same thing with my dojo. We actually do a lot more newaza based sparring.
“Judo won’t work” as you picked a smaller less experienced grappler than you.. very strange text overlay
Yeah that thumbnail click bait line is a hunk of bs.
bulshidojutsus always do that. they always set up the spar to their advantage then claim bjj is superior. i have zero respect for bjj. it was founded upon LIES and DECEPTION. no respect for that kind of "art".
@@premo0 someone forgot to change accounts lmao
@@nanr1686?
Of course its "your" video! NO DOUBT that a Experienced Judoka would sweep the floor with your a$$! 😅😅😅😅
Honestly it's the scramble after a takedown that no one really practices. Most room for improvement and advantages there.
In bjj that’s common to learn
@@thatonebananabananaman8565its not
But in judo its everyday stuff
In judo its counter productive. Judo are throwsband tactics taken from a combat system. The throws are designed and practiced to hurt an apponent and allow you to get to a weapon. In japanese systems, weapons are always primary modes of attacking. You never want to have to rely on hand to hand combat in the real world. It is allways a bad thing. Judo doesnt scramble for a ground position because its bad to go to the ground, no soldier would ever willingly go to the ground, its just stupid. Actually, when fighting, the goal is yo getbaway to a weapon first. Hand to hand combat is to risky for both persons. Judo represents more realistic scenario. You throw and stay standing. If they come back, you are ready to run or fight again.
@@trillrudeboy boom
In judo rules, you would have lost in the first minuite(if you get thrown on your back you lose.) You have amazing groundwork, i learnd a lot. Thank you🙏
I've practiced both and I love BJJ. However, to be honest, I find it ridiculous that a BJJ practitioner would just sit down at the beginning of a fight. I consider this tactic childish and believe it's only applicable because the opponent can't kick you.
Yh its pretty silly. Sitting down opens you up to leg kicks for sure
Not all BJJ practitioners do that
While I agree with you, others will say “you’re there to train bjj, not stand and grip fight for 6mins”. Both are true. Never neglect training take downs but repetition is of the most importance. Positional sparring, starting from open guard, on the knees, and any other position is great practice to elevate specific areas of your game. I would avoid pulling guard, even if I am a guard player, being on top is never a bad thing.
I completely agree. However Wrestling is far superior... roll with a BB that was at least collegiate level, without your PJ's, that Gonna be a rude awakening. It trumps Judo It won't even be close. Even Travis Stevens would have no chance. Once you take the jacket off most of the throws are a dumbed down less sophisticated version of greco roman wrestling but with an exposed posture. Add the legs from freestyle, high crotch, single or double leg, and ankle picks and its all she wrote. Wrestling is THE stand up grappling art to end them all. Most No Gi schools wrestle at least half the time and that's why they are leading the way through innovation like Gordan is. Danaher almost never talks about Judo anymore, we all know why.
@@ericparis224too bad wrestling isnt available in my area (its very unpopular in holland) so i have to do with Judo which is still awesome either way
I love seeing two opposing styles that work well together also verse each other
its not fair , a normal bjj black belt equals a judo 3th dan black belt.. plus, this bjj guy is a world class he probably shall face an judo athlete who competes national championship...
Tyler is good but world class is a bit of a stretch….
@@blind_warriorr world class only in guillotines
@@denisl2760 Haha for sure
And in spite of a strength, weight and experience advantage the judoka still put him on his back with a pretty well executed drop seio nage. Clearly, Judo did work that day 😂
Judo vs BJJ reminds me of legendary fight between Helio Gracie vs Masahiko Kimura. "Hélio did not surrender, and Kimura rotated the arm until it broke. As Gracie still refused to give up, Masahiko twisted the arm further and broke it again. Finally, when the judoka was about to twist it a third time, Gracie's corner threw the towel, and Kimura was declared winner."
akktually. kimura choked helio multiple times but let go so as not to embarass his stupid ass in his own country.
In that match, Kimura planned to knock Helio out with throws. Helio was thrown repeatedly, but was not knocked out. Kimura did get Helio in a choke, but Helio refused to tap. Kimura let the choke go, as he did not want to actually kill Helio. This was all within three minutes of the fight. 10 mins. more, Kimura broke Helio's arm.
The headlines in Brazil with large print on the paper, was Helio Victory, but the small print of moral right before victory. Equivalent to "moral VICTORY!"
It was later discovered the Gracies used thick heavy padding to make Kimura's throws essentially ineffective and of course Helio admitted decades later, that if Kimura did not let go of the choke, then Helio himself would have died. The tall tales from the Gracies continued, like Kimura weighed 50 lbs. to 80lbs. more than Helio.
Tell that Helio Gracie after Masahiko Kimura broke his arm in 1951.
I believe in never limiting myself.
I love Wrestling, Judo, Ju Jitsu, Muay Thai, Karate, Hapkido, and so on.
I implement Judo and Ju Jitsu and Wrestling when it comes to grappling.
judo throws if mastered properly are probably the best, because you can do them without exposing vital areas like the neck or head to various strikes or chokes
but they are so hard, 1 throw might take you 2 years to be just good at.
Delusional much???
Thats explains why noone ever uses Judo in a real fight or the UFC LMFAO
@@badtrekee4348Highkey debatable, a lot of throws in MMA could be considered judo. Especially cage wrestling
@@badtrekee4348 Ronda Rousey dominated womens MMA for years using judo techniques.
@@hedgehog11953 Funny how she was always with Charles Gracie Lmfao. Now lie and tell me Judo uses Armbars? 😂
That knee slide to mount is a very small but important detail. I see all the time in UFC, guys will try to leap their leg over to get the mount and end up in butterfly guard instead. Very good technical stuff in this roll from all Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ
Judo??????????🤣🤣
1:52 Ah the Kazumi, most classic of Judo throws.
Lat drop in Judo is usually called Yoko Otoshi or Yoko Guruma depending on how exactly you do it
That looked like a Uki Waza which the nogi variation is a lat drop. have no idea what a "Kazumi" is.
@@rns7426 Haha Kazumi is just Tyler trolling ;)
I think for Uki Waza you would go more straight down between Uke's legs, not on the outside. Sort of like Sumi Gaeshi but without the leg to kick them over which makes it somewhat likely that they faceplant if they are not aware of what is happening.
@@bjarneschmalbach1524 lots of variations for uki waza. I would definitely call it that. Whether it is a down the middle or off to the side it still looks the same.
BJJ has a on the butt collar drag version of it. Forget what they like to call it. When I saw it In BJJ class it was still an uki waza. Of course my coach looks at me like I’m crazy when I tell them the Japanese names for it.
The links I dropped I’d call both uki waza.
Here’s an example of the judo version.
th-cam.com/users/shortsUjv9BD0oZzs?si=GLwNG1CILRhyu6Wm
A standing BJJ version:
th-cam.com/users/shortsiSaruR9XfiM?si=_n8osXcujdxwxDdT
it's uki-waza actually :)
because bbj is really judo, not jujitsu
Saw someone dominate panams years ago with judo throws into side mounts guy won gold
Did judo the entire 1980ies and the onset of the 1990ies. Thanks to the concept of 'Olypic Judo' we Judoka lost tons of techniques. Rules from outside were forced upon us like no standing leg grabs. No chockes under green belts. Ones the fight goes to the ground, like in boxing, they stand you back up.
Some friends of mine who are in BJJ ask me and eachother wether or not BJJ should become an Olympic discipline.
DO NOT DO IT! Those Olympic commities will castrate your martial art into a sport fit for old ladies.
My martial arts friends in BJJ, from a Judoka who witnessed the downfall of functional Judo, like taught to the Japanese army in the 1930ies. With on the ground training TO FINISH THE JOB! Horrible time in hystory, but Judo was great and inspirational by being EFFECTIVE and EFFICIENT. These days, man, it is form, kata and the 6 techniques favored by the Olympic commity.
My judo club does tons of newaza as well as throws it's a 2.5 to 3 hr class 2 days a week but we also have bjj classes 3 days a week. I also learned the basic judo double leg I prefer this particular double leg to th wrestling one because you dont have to necessarily follow them to the ground and ot uses way more off balance and leverage to do I also like it because my long arms can reep the legs up easy while my head pushes them over I usually place my head on the upper most part of the chest directly on between the 2 collar bones creating more leverage and less likely to be cought in a head lock or punched that high up
We never lost any techniques. Judo still teaches everything from Japanese Ju Jutsu, it's legacy. We just don't in competitions, as joint lock and neck wrenching kills your Uki
@@MichaelEhlineDepends highley on the gym. Due to the olympic rules, gyms will and do focus on the olympic rule set more. If your train at a gym that does a lot of classic judo cool, but that’s not most gyms.
@@ethanchaney1139 are you speaking from personal experience. I have trained at multiple dojos and BJJ academies and I find that Judo senseis are pretty uniform, unlike most BJJ academies. The Japanese tradition and respect militate in favor of uniformity
olympic commitees ruined karate as well over 20 years ago, thei turned it into bullshido
That wasn’t Kazumi, that was more like a Yoko Otoshi. Kazumi is a person and she does….uhhh….😂
If he tossed you on the concrete you done xD
Judo is amazing. I think as a lifetime pursuit is it absolutely equal to BJJ. That said, on the ground (and especially earlier in your training) BJJ definitely has the advantage.
For the record I’m a judo brown (sankyu) and 4 stripe white belt (hopefully soon a blue belt!) in BJJ.
modern Judo has a very constrained ruleset though, no?
I used to train with judo black belts when i was a blue belt and destroyed most of them. If a Judo guy learns Jiu Jitsu thats what makes them tough to beat the JJ not the Judo.
As someone who learned Judo in Japan back in the 80's. The more recent changes to contest Judo are ridiculously constrained. @@vibovitold
@@badtrekee4348 As I said, BJJ has the advantage. This is because it's easier to end a fight with newaza (groundfighting) than with tachiwaza (takedowns and throws). BJJ guys are almost always better on the ground, so they tend to win over judoka in submission based combat.
BUT high level judoka have beaten high level BJJ guys several times back when there was more style v style matchups. They call the submission a Kimura because Kimura, a judoka, used it to beat Helio. Another example is Yoshida, a judoka, beating Royce. And in a street fight a good throw or slam can end a fight.
So yes, BJJ tends to beat Judo. But don't underestimate it! Everyone Cross trains nowadays, but it's not BJJ that makes judo great. Judo is amazing all on its own. And we wouldn't have BJJ without it.
@@vibovitold Constrained compared to what? Sure it has more rules today than when it was created. But more rules than other grappling sports? I wouldn't say that. Just different.
Gotta love the self aware humility combined in due portion of over the top pride
A lot of people in the comments didn't notice that it's a Judo Brown Belt vs Jui Jitsu Black Belt, (At least according to the title).
a judo throw on the street means game over
So does a right hand to the jaw lol
That doesn’t throw was NOT a sacrifice throw. You may have said that because you felt embarrassed and made it bigger than what it was. It is upon seoi nage, a forward throwing technique. He used a version where you drop to your knees. The call it drop seo
Dude your game against all comers is fantastic when I watch people do things so effortlessly it’s like watching magic
Look at you sporting the gi. Looking sharp my dude! 👍👏👊
At 2:55, in judo, I suspect it would've been scored as an ippon.
Yeah you’re probably right on that score.
You’ll be proud of me wearing quite a bit more gi lately at the cost of my fingers
Surely an ippon, but I don't know who would've scored it, honestly.
@@thecubeman381 White gi scores and wins the match there, no question at all. But alas, it's bjj :)
@@ninjaatori 100%
Alex also rolled through to be nice to Tyler. In reality, Tyler's counter was too weak to safely get top position.
But it was a nice attempt
@@thecubeman381 looked more like a wazari, Tylers leg hit first
It depends on what the rules are. This is apples to oranges. In a Judo tournament, the Judo guy would win because the match would be over with the throw. In a BJJ tournament, the BJJ guy would win because the Judo throw would not count. That being said, all black belts (in any discipline) are not equal. A Judo brown belt from Gokor Chivichyan's school, would eat your lunch. They train in everything.
What? I had a hard time to understand whats the point. You should see some olímpicos matches and you would understand. JUDO is EFECTIVE!! BELIEVE IT!!
BJJ is like the MMA of grappling. Wrestling, judo, bjj ect all allowed
it's mmga mixed martial grappling arts
@@rackembarryMGA league coming soon?
Next we need aikido Vs bjj
@@TylerSpangler Yoo potential Collab with martial arts journey??
@@TylerSpanglerdo a roll with steven segal
Very Interesting video….. the scramble after throw really is sorted by training transition from Tachi Waza(Standing) to Newaza(Ground Work) which is sometimes not always trained as regularly as Judo contest it’s all about the IPPON! that said a good brown belt and above with transition game would be very different contest in my opinion
Definitely, this guys newaza sucks. He spent way too much time on his back. 30 seconds and it's over.
It was different in Judo pre-2000. I won 75% of my matches on the ground, mostly by submissions. Back then, folks didn't care about a clean throw as much as most of the time you just wanted to get a dominant position for a pin or submission.
Imagine if this had not been 'sport' in a fully matted dojo. Would the throw @00:55 had a different outcome if it had been onto concrete or tarmac? @04:55 or @06:30 from standing onto concrete... you judge how this would have changed how this would have likely progressed....
Kimura vs Helio Gracie already showed how Judo is far superior to BJJ.
BJJ = BASICALLY JUST JUDO
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. “Conde Koma”, began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano’s Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name “Judo” was not popularized until 1925.
Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as “pulling-guard” in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).
There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting “Gracie Jiu-Jitsu” or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie’s loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a “moral victory”. More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano’s original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods.
@@IvusppI'm a brazilian judoka, and agree.
Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is pretty different my guy
BJJ came from Kosen Judo
@@mr.d1888it’s a difference now, because BJJ has been watered down heavily, if you want to learn some good BJJ stick with 10th world JJ
Interesting example.
I was doing judo for about 4 years when I decided to check out a Bjj club, of course the trainer put me against some purple belt with a few white stripes on them. He was a bit taller then me, probably the same weight. It was a great ne waza but he didnt manage to choke me out nor the get me in a hold. Learn some awesome moves on that class. The guy spanked my ass in the end of ne waza so i didnt go there anymore. Anyways!! I saw that there is a huge strength and grip gap between us. I would be really happy to see you doing a randori with someone who is more dynamic, has a better grip and is a bit more relaxed. The wrist bar was nice tho.
In the good old days of Judo, there were only white belt for the 5 Kyu 級 and black belt for the 5 Dan 段 in Judo. Later, in 1913, the brown belt was introduced to experienced Kyu players in 3 to 1 kyu, and then color belts were invented by the British Judo Association in 1926 and later half-color belts for other Kyu were invented by the French. Kano awarded his best student Saigo Shiro 西鄉 after Saigo passed away. Evebtually dan expanded and white-red belt for kodansha when 6 to 10 dan were introduced.
In Sumo during training, only senior rikishi in the top two divisions (the sekitori) are allowed to wear white mawashi.
In Shuaijiao, yellow jacket and belt could only be worn when awarded by the Emperors. Chang Dong Sheng introduced a belt system in Taiwan and later the US. It didn't go far. In last 40 or so years old coaches who had won championship before started to wear yellow belt.
So if you are a Judo or BJJ guy who go to a Sumo beya or Shuaijiao gym, do not think a white belt or yellow belt is easy target.😂
which is better...lets use rules to give the advantage to one???
You proved that BJJ players benefit immensely from practicing nage waza.
Tyler, you should roll with one of the miyao brothers. As a Jiu-Jitsu practitioner and fan of both I'd love to see you roll with either of the brothers. I'm sure they'd love the collab ❤❤
Great roll i love sparring with bjj players it teChes me i have to not over rotate for the throw and tight transition on the ground great content
i never heard of judo doesnt work until youtube ppl started sayin it
It’s only aikido & Bjj nerds butthurt that Judo has whooped their art on a regular basis for decades on end. They have to go & pick midgets to try to get wins
Wonderful video! Truly "scientific" studies of martial arts are impossible because of variables like differences in strength and skill levels of opponents. But this is an excellent comparison with great narration.
I do struggle to see why folks differentiate judo and wrestling as if they are 2 separate things. Modern judo due to the rule set is certainly restrictive. However, the judo of 15+ years ago was effectively just wrestling in a gi, leg grabs, pick-ups all allowed. I think this point needs to be made more clear.
Agreed
I did Judo in the 80s and 90s. Stopped for university and went back around 2005 for fitness. It was 100% a different sport. I was late 30s and could absolutely destroy younger kids on the ground -- if the silly rules weren't in effect. I left because the sport had gotten too far away from its roots to the point it wasn't practical. Why can't you continue on the ground? Because it doesn't look good in the Olympics is a stupid answer.
Today, I don't mind people saying Judo is different than wresting. Most competitors are young and learned post 2000, so as a sport 90% of Judoka you see today cannot wrestle or face a BJJ guy.
That's certainly how it looks like "from the outside", but Judo has a lot of stuff that doesn't exist in wrestling.
The way you are taught to move is different. The way you deal with things is different.
The time to master judo technicalities is much longer than wrestling (or BJJ, aka Judo Ne Waza, for that matter), because the movements are originally based on subtle imbalance and sensing, not pure muscle leverage like wrestling.
That said, sports Judo has done a lot to destroy all the original finesse
@@BW022it's actually why a lot of ex judo guys are now doing BJJ.
tf you even talking bout? 😂 Bjj is Judo but not wrestling! Wrestling has another way coming up
that brown belt looks suspiciously purple
purple in bjj i guess, brown in judo. not unusual
It's not a BJJ belt, its a Judo belt.
you need to go against a top judo black belt. that would be fun to see.
This is a obviously definitive, end all discussion on judo vs jujitsu. Thank you for this video and for ending the great
"Judo/ jujitsu" war. We are saved 🥹
Double leg is a part of judo. Find some old timers in a club and ask to learn the judo they were taught. You would be shocked if you are lucky enough to find someone willing to share what they were taught.
So the answer of the initial question of the video is simple: none is better or both are better. The Judo brown was clearly better in the stand up game even though his opponent is much more advanced. The BJJ black belt was dominating on the ground as he should against a non-black belt grappler.
Video was fun to watch! Really really cool
So glad I'm learning Judo on top of skills in wrestling (I'm like ever so slightly above average in wrestling)
Next time Alex should wear X Martial so he would win! LOL
So he lost the Judo Part but won the Bjj Part who could have guessed that😂
On a hard surface most judo throws will result in injury for the opponent. A BJJ player can be great on the ground, but after getting slammed those skills are not going to be very useful. Plus a skilled judoka almost always has a final say whether to follow to the ground or not.
Yes man a skilled judoka slams a BJJ player to peaces on the hard concrete , but if the BJJ guy survive the trow and the judoka have to do ground work then BJJ will win.
But we will never see that kind of videos only training videos where there are tatami (matts)
Exactly ever since Helio Gracie, Bjj guys soften up the floors & try to ban certain slams to nerf judo & buff Bjj.
Just pull guard
The brown belt guy has good throws but needs to work on his groundwork (newaza in judo)
Learning new judo terms every day 😄
@@TylerSpangler more like japanese terms, also their are guys in judo with really good groundgame and can hold their own and even sub bjj black belts but most of them are japan. judo groudwork standards have fallen since the late 80s.
He is a bjj purple belt, so he does work on his newaza plenty.
The dude IS a purple belt in bjj. Plenty groundwork. But obviously its not going to look like It against a bigger black belt.
@@هذاأنا-ذ3ث Judo groundwork is a bit different, because in Judo the ref will get you both back on your feet unless something happens very quickly. so their window of opportunity is very narrow. it's for that reason that Kosen Judo highlights are a pleasure to watch, because when they submit the guy, it's blazingly fast, like boom to the ground we go, and an armbar (or whatever) 2 seconds later. in bjj you get to work towards the submission, and you can't lie down on your belly trying to wait it out : ) this difference changes the game very much.
Offhand, where I respect both systems --Judo seems more well-rounded than BJJ.
And kinda lost why BJJ is referred to as "Jiu-jitsu," when traditional Jiu-jitsu is a complete fighting system using strikes/kicks, throws, joint locks, and submission techniques and BJJ doesn't.
Always finish with wrist lock... triangle..wrist lock. .. bicep splice ..wrist lock..arm Bar..wrist lock
You were rough with that wrist lock and cruel with the Ezo too lol
0:48 I know that feeling too well man
Kimura vs Gracie showed that Judo can absolutely work
It was a different judô and a different BJJ, judo has been changing and being pruned
They are both Judokas. BJJ simply does less or no throws. Google it
@@MrArthur7000Nope
@@stillgotyourmomit was Gracie Jiu Jitsu not Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
@@mr.d1888 hääh?
Hi Tyler Spangler. I'm Karate. I think BJJ is great. Wrestling has been show to be a challenge all throughout the MMA world. Just want to mention a couple of points.
1. Judo Ground Game Lacking. People criticize Judo's ground game and it's true the training emphasis is not always there. So its not surprising that you could outdo your opponent on that score.
2. Judo vs. Wrestling. Judo's a traditional martial art; hence it's designed for self defense. The postures that wrestlers take in particular is vulnerable to strikes; same often holds for BJJ. Judo is designed to defend against strikes.
3. Fragmented Training. Some criticize Judo for training the techniques in an isolated setting. Then when one goes into a competitive situation or fight, the opponent is resisting and they can't work their technique. We see the same criticism of karate basics. BJJ emphasizes more "rolling." A quick answer is Judo philosophy is to master the intricacies of the technique first... then move onto application. Ultimately, Randori which is a key component of Judo training... addresses the actual conflict scenario.
4. BJJ's Technical Emphasis. I feel BJJ's strong point, one of them, is it's technical emphasis, particularly when moving to the ground. IMO, really difficult to learn too. Judo provides some solid basic building blocks in contrast.
5. Injuries. I can't speak for BJJ. Judo is designed to be risk free. All the problems I have witnessed stem from practitioners straying from the "gentle way" philosophy and employing physical aggression. The typical sport mentality 🤗🤗including wrestling. Judo proper never forces technique, the technique does all the work.. People are too reactive and too tense, and this likely explains why their break falls are hurtful.
Nice video.👍👍
The fact that a judo brown belt (~3 years exp) can throw a bjj black belt with 10 plus years just shows we can all learn from different styles
Hmm.
So I’m a single strip white belt in Bjj.
And a white belt inn judo.
During Bjj class yesterday, rolling, i wanted to hit a white belt throw
O goshi or dehashi hari.
But the Bjj stance is so far away o wasn’t able to hit them let alone attempt them.
So i wanted to see the application…
This video confirmed the problem i saw.
A “simple” sweep isn’t applicable unless they’re standing every erect.
Good video.
Kuzushi!!!!!!
Its impressive that a brown belt could give a black belt bjj a run for his money , would be interresting to see 2 black belts
In classic Judo, that Uchimata countered by Yoko Otoshi is an ippon for the counter but not in IJF Judo.
Donbai Kuwabata have a good Newaza and Nagewaza. Maybe try collaborate with him.
Gotta watch it.
The difference between strikers and judoka is that strikers hit you with their body parts. Jodoka hit you with the earth.
Anyone who practices BJJ or Judo and doesn’t train in the other is really missing out.
If you're only doing one of them, you're not doing either at all. Judo and BJJ are ONE IN THE SAME.
Hey keeping it controlled and nobody got hurt. Thats a win
The main problem in these videos is that most of BJJ guys are probably in a good competitive level, and call Judokas from the USA... It would be interesting to the this with european or asian judokas, or top USA judokas... I'm not a hater but, even Junior brown belts in Judo (With real competitive training) will probably take you down in style...
Agreed!
Jiu-Jitsu really works than Judo...when no strike rules with gi
I saw many bjj practitioners dominated by Judoka in uni
The biggest difference was physical issues, bjjs were really thin and easy to be koed
"we found two martial artists which practice two very similar martial arts to see which martial art is better"
Would love to see this guy do it against a judo black belt.
I get really confused when ppl say jiujitsu and not Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. They are two different things
Hey Tyler I decided to finally start wrestling/ jiu jitsu when I move to Austin, TX. Also I will join the b team thanks to your channel
Judo is from Ju jitsu, but for what You speak of Judo is THE THING. The ju-jitsu You reffer is derived from Judo, and is BJJ, not Ju-jitsu. And just to answer generaly: Judo all day every day.
Nice video, Tyler. Good rolls
Thanks for watching amigo
Have you ever rolled with the coiller Brothers
I am only a blue belt so I'm not sure if I'm incorrect, but isn't the thing you're calling an Ezekiel choke a paper cutter choke? I could be wrong and feel free to school me on my ignorance if that's the case.
the distinguishing feature of Ezekiel is that you form the choking loop by putting your other palm into the sleeve of your choking hand.
Drop seio nage isn't a sacrifice throw. It's categorized a te waza.
Now 1 vs 1 against shintaro higashi , he's Judo Master
And a BJJ black belt.
bro on the ground wasnt even tryng😂
i see a lot of things that you used that's taught in judo so this looked like judo vs judo to me
90% of judo players will lose to a BJJ black because all throws end on the mat, and unless there is a referee to shout “ippon,” the match continues. BJJ has a much large repertoire of moves, whereas judo bans throws every Olympic cycle
gracie hunter
DO judo vs jiujitsu again please
Man I've done bjj since I was 13 and judo off and on if we as a jiu-jitsu collective where to bring a judo program's into most bjj schools it would re-merge the art making it complete again ,honestly we would be unstoppable. I see a bjj black belt struggling to take down and I see a judo brown or purple belt struggling on the ground.
Yeah man that's the whole point, we should bring back some judo to bjj (I do bjj)
@@pedromoreira393Blame UFC and the rule changes they institutionalized starting in year 2000. That was when BJJ started to abandon it's Judo roots. Those UFC rules starting back then were made to create environments more favorable to Striking Martial Artists and Wrestlers.
Strikes by someone from the bottom of the guard, weight classes, more restrictive time limits, etc. It turned MMA into overglorified kickboxing with wrestling because Americans only enjoy boxing and wrestling and combat sports that operate under similar rules.
@@joeruiz4010 yeah that's true, americans destroy everything they touch, now we have a new hype arround sambo, russians, dagestanis etc, it's all about the money.
rule set determines winner
Closed guard, try a Catch move; Twist around and grab a toe lock. At minimum they will release the guard.
Judo brown belt wearing...pink belt? Purple belt? Is this IJF player or some AAU player?
A lot of difference between tournament gyms and traditional gyms tournament gyms almost never train ground fighting
If Kimura were alive he'd probably be banned from modern Jiu-Jitsu competitions if tried to transition to them. His Judo throws were pretty much knockouts. When someone can throw you hard enough to the ground to knock you unconcious, you won't have a chance to use BJJ.
Especially if it's on concrete.
In reality, only a few ground moves are used. The only way to learn ground training is to do it - its like learning tie rope knots.
The uchi Mata roll would have been ippon for him in Judo. You’ve have lost the match by eating that throw
No shooting a double leg? So no morote gari, a traditional Judo technique?
Nice to see you in the gi 👊😁
2:46 imagine you're on concrete and not a soft mat if you are still unsure how that situation should have been scored lmao
Well fortunately I don’t get into street fights lol
Judo is great for explosive aggression and a lot of throws lead to great ground positions for submissoin. That said, I am just learning ju-jitsu and I am really old, so I lean into my judo a lot.
This was awesome, Thanks guys!
What do you think, I've heard multiple times that bjj players hate nothing more than wrestling a judoka on the mat? I think I've heard some places don't have equal amounts of mat wrestling though. I don't think you can gauge his skills based on a video like this, but I was slightly surprised by the passiveness and lack of preventing you from even getting in positions given he's a brown belt. Obviously you played good, but I did expect less opportunities, more legs locked between thighs and you having to wrestle your way to the pins.
In judo the uchimata attempt would've probably been a clean point for him, attempted a throw and you landed on your full back under him, no questions asked about scoring. But I could be wrong about that. The standing grappling in general looked a bit weird throughout the video. Feels like he was trying to style you, uchimata is one of those luxurious specialist throws that take an eternity to master or get good at, and sacrificial throws in general are a bit sketchy unless you execute them really well - meaning that you take full advantage of your opponents slacking position to attempt, and if you're doing it right, it looks convincing and inevitable, not tumbling around loosely. Then again, it's just a march for fun, shouldn't really judge too pedantically. I'm just thinking his on feet grappling should've been way more advantaged compared to yours. Like the grips used, grip fights going pretty even and the throw attempts having a lot of slack. Would've expected way more leg sweeps and perhaps hip throw attempts, some arm throws. In my opinion those are the bread and butter of on feet judo and easiest to score. And winning grip battles should be a big part of it. I think you won all of them, he did make a couple of uncomfortable positions for you but didn't take advantage over them and didn't go for it. Lacked that grip battle to gain something to initiate to score. Those situations end up in quick and convincing scores in judo, on the contrary of judokas who play but don't know what they're aiming at and end up creating situations withour progression. Like the annoying collar grip you can't get rid of does nothing if you don't use it. What good is single arm collar grip until you throw your opponent. You even offered him an extended arm. Maybe it's because of the competition mentioned. A judo referee wouldn't have passed the non-adjusted gis for so long either. Good plays by you guys. He looked really exhausted by the end, probably explains why he wasn't defending anything on the mat. Like I didn't see a single cross hand collar grip to defend chokes against a bjj player.
Where's the judo brown belt??....🤔
Smothering like that when you were already dominating the wresting end of things, sort of a dick move like you admitted. Quick question: unless one's goal is to actually submit and tie up an intruder or something, why would the judoka willingly go into bjj rolling and wrestling vs a bjj/wrestler? Wouldn't they just stand up, let you stand up and proceed to throw you over and over again? And at that point, what stops the bjj guy from simply walking away?
Where’s the judo player? I don’t see him.
Depends on the Judoka
I'm confused. He can use Judo and jujitsu while you can only use jujitsu while only on the ground with no wrestling technique to get him there. Right or wrong?