Honestly another big thing that makes it hard for judo to grow on social media is that there's such a culture of elitism in it. It's great that we strive for perfection, but I've posted my throws in videos on Facebook groups before and received nothing but hate like 'is that really a brown belt? How shameful, etc.' We need to be more supportive and constructive
In france before black belt u're a beginner , i'm a green belt and i sometimes beat some brown belt with weird throw , but on average peope are happy to see u come often and try hard
@@ryanwilliams9984funny you mention that. Travis stevens said that he did a clinic doing unconventional grips and the instructors were like nah don’t do this. To the students!
MY BJJ gym has paired up with a local Judo gym and now offers a Judo class on a Friday evening. It doesn't cost anything extra as the Judo class is included in the BJJ membership. I'd say that's the way to go for Judo. MMA has made BJJ crazy popular. Rather than Judo trying to compete against that, it needs to get in with it and promote how Judo will blend with BJJ
Completely agree that BJJ gatewayed me back to judo. I did judo as a kid like a lot of Western kids, but didn’t really get it and dropped away. I’ve gotten into BJJ as a Masters athlete, love the gi and that has led to several of us getting into judo for its own sake. Our BJJ club now has a judo club with people competing in both sports.
I think something that can really help Judo is if trainers look into physio and injury prevention courses. Learning and teaching all the best exercises to keep judo players from trashing their bodies. Additionally, I notice Japanese Judo tends to be more technique oriented and well timed. They tend to wait for kuzushi instead of forcing a throw. It's a wise approach tactically, but also for safety. They seem to do judo well into their senior years, and i think technique has a lot to do with it. Proper form applies to any form of lifting.
I coach a judo club at a mid sized Midwestern university in the middle of corn fields. The nearest judo dojo is 48 miles away. I have to compete with a whole boatload of organizations that students can choose from. We work out in the wrestling practice room which is cavernous. I wish I could fill it.
I train at a BJJ school where the head instructor is a world champion and also a judo brown belt. Our adult gi classes are divided into 3 categories. Fundamentals/beginners class, advanced class & the black belt program. All three classes have heavy emphasis on stand-up (judo/wrestling) techniques. It makes up a third of every class. It's what we drill the most other than guard passing. Fundamentals students can learn and drill judo throws but are not allowed to use them in live sparring. Advanced students all start sparring on their knees but are allowed to do throws or pull guard if the roll naturally progresses to standing. In the black belt program, all sparring starts in the standing position and you're not allowed to pull guard so you're forced to learn/use judo or you won't be rolling. You have to earn your newaza. I absolutely love this approach. You get the best of both worlds. 🥋✌🏼
That's how BJJ was Pre-2001 (turn of this century). Too many BJJ Schools on focus on building up to MMA, which from 2001 to Present, is based on rule sets that favor Wrestling (US NCAA Wrestling) and striking.
I really want to learn judo. The problem is there is no schools within a reasonable distance in any sense for me. The last time I looked, I think the nearest school was 3 - 4 hours away. So I have had to go to BJJ instead. I found those classes to be somewhat frustrating at times because the stand up grappling and takedown portion of the game was effectively an after thought if it was addressed at all.
Bjj stance on stand up Is literally judo is perfect we focus on 99% groundwork… Judo is super popular in Brazil more so then bjj so it’s easy to train both
@@VTdarkangel yeah, after moving to canada im in a similar situation it totally sucks. what about wrestling? ... yeah i was only trying to explain why you felt the art is incomplete ( like zero takedowns ),, its actually a hyper focused judo (on the ne waza/ground work) and its actually was kinda expected you to already knew or took judo for the takedown aspects.. so when imported to new students who became teachers and then again.. the takedowns were lost and it feels (it actually is for many gyms) incomplete ... if you learn from a bjj instructor look for 'professors' that do stand up takedowns like claudio casalans or jacare ( both judo black belts).. still being careful is best. simply learning a throw wrong can have a training partner break you leg and it happens alot with bjj guys trying judo without knowing how dangerous it is
@user-vc6 I've done a little bit of wrestling, and there is some benefit there. However, in my experience, the game has gotten so sport focused and on getting the pin that much of the martial aspect has been lost. Things like the focus on shooting for someone's leg make me a little nervous about taking a knee to the face. Perhaps my perspective is still a bit shallow because I haven't done enough wrestling, but I'm also not so sure where to find good wrestling classes. I know that at my school, finding someone interested in practicing takedowns is difficult.
As a 40 year old BJJ student (1 year exp.), I think that Shintaro is absolutely correct. By allowing the lower belts to compete helps grow the sport, especially with all the kids coming through the pipeline! I personally follow Shintaro for his mastery and passion for Judo, but I don’t do judo myself. BJJ (newaza) NEEDS judo! In order to be a well rounded grappler BJJ practitioners have to be better at stand up, takedowns, wrestling’s and throws!
I trained BJJ for about 5 years before I was unfortunately forced to walk-away. I thoroughly enjoyed doing it, but there was always a glaring absense of discussing and practicing takedowns at both schools I trained at. When the topic was covered, it a quick gloss over when tournaments were coming up if any instruction was given at all. Even then you either understood how takedowns worked or you were just screwed. In my personal opinion, modern BJJ needs to get reacquainted with its Judo roots in a major way. The problem is that it near impossible to find Judo schools, at least in my part of the country. The last time I looked, I couldn't find one that didn't involve driving at least 3 - 4 hours one way.
Why would bjj needs judo ? Nogi bjj wrestling >>>> judo. If you don’t believe me look up average wrestler like rod destroying judoka’s in nogi, or Brandon reed vs Olympic judoka etc etc. So depends nogi bjj wrestling is and will be far superior ( footsweep uchi mata are very good tho but many judo throws in nogi are wayyy less effective )
@@youngbuddha7778 nogi is only one part of BJJ and without a doubt, wrestling is very good for that side. However, wrestling doesn't work as well with the gi. Certain habits developed in wrestling (at least in my experience) leave openings when there is a gi to grab. Modern wrestling also has a habit of leaving both fighters on the ground which is not ideal when training self-defense. Judo addresses those concerns. I'm not saying wrestling is bad or you should do only one or the other. However, I am saying Judo has some distinct advantages that is unwise ignore.
@@youngbuddha7778 Yes, Judo is at max a plus but it's not necessary at all to be a well rounded grappler/BJJ fighter. Also, most people forget that the original BJJ, Gracie JiuJitsu, had already incorporated wrestling elements since the beginning of their practice, including holds, take downs, and even striking. Maeda before arriving in Brazil was fighting catch wrestlers and other styles of grapplers all over the world, and he transmitted all this experience to his students in Brazil.
Bjj literally has all of judo incorporated into it. Every judo throw is actually part of bjj and most bjj is technically part of judo … the arts in the gi are meant really to be combined. In Brazil judo is more popular then jiu jitsu so it’s not a problem at all..just in America you get instructors who have never learned the throws like original Brazilians already knew
I think judo banning leg grabs did far more damage to its popularity than people realise. A major problem is it greatly undermined judo as a self-defence martial art. If you're someone who's main thing was boxing or kickboxing, and you want to learn how defend yourself in a grappling situation, in the past a lot of people would have picked judo because it does such a good job of teaching you how to take someone down, without going to the ground with them. By getting rid of leg grabs and by extension, defence against leg grabs, it now appears to have a major hole in its defence, which is why most people pick BJJ or wrestling over it. This combined with the fact that it's only done in the gi, causes a lot of people who are not familiar with it to say "it's just a sport, it's not a real fighting style." If that wasn't bad enough there's also the fact that by banning leg grabs, it now gives an advantage to taller fighters, which really sucks because judo used to market itself as the small guys weapon against a big guy. If judo wants to be popular again it needs to 1 bring back leg grabs 2 have no gi classes and tournaments 3 partner with MMA gyms, and 4 get rid of this conservative elitist mindset of "Well if we did that, it wouldn't be judo." Judo needs to adapt or die.
@asdfasdf1397 Wrong. If you score a throw in wrestling it doesn't count as an automatic win. This is what makes Judo unique and it's why it is so awesome for self defence, because if someone grabs you in a street fight, your aim should be to try to throw them, without going to the ground with them. If there was no gi and leg grabs were allowed, I would class it as THE best martial art for self-defense.
@@millennialwatchman6703 It's a very good self defense system but incomplete on its own, you should also know how to strike ideally (and how to avoid getting struck).
I love judo but I find it very hard to continue to teach judo in my area. I’ve been training for 11 years and have only made ikkyu, as there are few instructors to learn under. However, if I stop teaching I’m afraid judo will completely disappear off the schools schedule further reducing the practice in this area.
You should launch a PR crusade against BJJ butt scooters who pull guard all the time… “You don’t have to scoot your butt, come learn Judo!” Maybe there’s a cartoon with a bjj guy who’s wincing from matt burn on his butt from scooting. I really hope someone does this I need this in my life.
My son has been doing judo for 10 years and I am a Bjj black belt and 100% agree with everything you said and have thought it for a while. Judo should be so much more prevalent in the US and Aus (where I am). Another two things is the belt system primarily adult v junior, so when you are an adult amateurs compete it makes the weird. Also the nogi side and the pro circuit that developed from it. I would love more nogi judo to be taught. Great podcast ✊🏼
I'm in Aus too, thinking of picking up judo as an adult now (34). Bjj experience about 6 years, a blue belt currently. What do you think it's like as an adult picking up Judo in Aus/NSW, and who'd like to compete from time to time?
@@supplemarmot1244I know you didn't ask, but my opinion is that you should give judo a go. I've been doing it 11 years, since I was 11, so I can't speak personally about starting later, but it's something you should try. A lot of older people I train with find it hard to adjust to being thrown, having grips broken and being bumped (failed foot sweeps, etc). But if you stick with it, you will enjoy it, you'll just have to give it time. Not just a couple of weeks, but long enough for your body to adjust. Hope this helps
Another thing BJJ has that Judo hasn’t capitalized on is its recent exposure in pop culture via Joe Rogan, Jocko, even Zuckerberg and other celebrities are BJJ practitioners now. Judo needs to jump on that train as at least as a good complimentary art to BJJ.
This wasn't my experience at all. There are tons of judo clubs, but by and large, they generally didn't really care much about really teaching judo. Most of the classes barely bothered actually teaching anything. Hell a good third of the classes were spent playing football/soccer. Most of the time, the black belts just trained with each other and everyone just had to fend for themselves.
I’ve been training bjj for almost 14 years now, but I’ve always had a strong interest in judo. (Huge credit to Shintaro’s TH-cam content for helping me make my crappy bjj ‘judo’ kinda work on people.) I’ve thought about training at the Obukan judo club here in Portland, and I’ve stopped in several times to watch. They’re super nice guys, but the curriculum is strictly Kodokan, sport-focused and therefore probably not very translatable to my main sport due to all of the gripping rules. I really should just get over that mental block, but it’s there nonetheless. But that’s why I like Shintaro’s content so much-it’s much broader, open, and dynamic. I think the best way to popularize judo is probably through bjj (and mma) by offering a more adaptable version of judo. A version that’s a little less focused on getting that perfect, clean ippon, and maybe a little more focused on situational adaptability. My 2 cents.
I would go for it. I've been doing judo for a few years, and on my off season spent some time in BJJ. The BJJ guys realized right away even in no gi that I had done something before and my base and pressure were noted right away. Their is lots of carry over. My dojo practices sports rules, but you still learn tons of gripping and breaks, principles are still transferable, and most BJJ guys can't grip anyways so no problems there.
Keep In mind majority pf wrestling, judo, bjj has the same techniques just called different besides bjj came from judo find a school that does wazza if you are a bjj guy then u will have fun with that
Hi. If you live in PDX and looking for judo/bjj, there is a place in NW, they used to be called Portland Judo, I think they have a new name now. But great group of people, and they do judo and bjj. I enjoyed my time there when I was in the area.
90% of BJJkas don't compete. For most, it's not a sport at all, so it sells like hot-cakes. It thrives on social connectedness and group bonding. Very different from Judo. Wrestling works because of institutional support as an academic sport. Statistically, no one wrestles after college; it has no paying adult "community". If Judo majors on sport, but has no cultural institutional support, there's no paying market, and no coalescing around critical mass.
I started in BJJ in 2017 and quickly found out that what I was really most interested in was judo. Following a break, a return, and an extended hiatus due to the pandemic, I've been trying to get back into grappling, and in addition to hopefully starting judo soon, I've fallen head over heels into the amateur sumo community in the US, with the hope that there's some cross-pollination in grappling skills between the two that will carry me forward and improve my grappling. I can't help but get this feeling that judo is absolutely the underdog of the three, as you mentioned, and I hope that can change in the near future. Amateur sumo unfortunately doesn't even really currently make sense to include in the discussion, but perhaps in the future we can get an American banzuke and something will change there.
Sounds similar to me. Did bjj before the pandemic. Never went back but went to a judo school as it was a hell of a lot cheaper and found it more interesting. Nothing against bjj just fell for the judo bug
I do version of Traditional Japanese Jiujitsu and our dojo shares its local with Karate , Sumo and Kung Fu folk on different hours. We are few in our city with Japanese Jiujitsu but i love it, it was closest to Judo that I could find and that Is near me. I got my yellow belt from white after few months 😃 i got to learn my first hip throw.
My original instructor taught judo techniques as part of the basic curriculum and I've always loved it. But, as you say here, it can be hard to even find a dojo here in the US. I've had a ton of conversations with other BJJ guys about how we'd like to train Judo as well. I wonder if part of growing the sport could be introducing Judo classes at BJJ schools where there is an interest.
I think this is a very American thing. Over the pond in Scandinavia, Europe where I live, Judo was (and prbably still is where available) the friendliest and most down-to-earth type of martial art you can practice. It is only elite-level for those who want to and not completely just "aim for the big medals". Then it simply got outcompeted totally by BJJ, by the mystique after MMA and so few Judo clubs are still around. But my impression of the BJJ clubs I visited and tried to put my son in, is that it is far more "respect" and hierarchy, but in a Brazilian macho way, instead of a Japanese sensei style, but far from the welcoming and friendly than what I encountered in Judo. At least that is what Judo used to be. Now I have a hard time finding a club that doesn't just do kids classes (which are still great) and competition oriented classes for 15-25 year olds. I cannot find an adult class for normies within distance.
Your not wrong, it is an "American thing" Every American HS has a folkstyle wrestling team that's either free to join or less than $100 for the year, something briefly mentioned in the video. It makes zero sense for a parent in the US to pay a dojo $100-$200 dollars a month when their kids can just join the school's wrestling team where every Judo throw is also legal and taught without a gi. Furthermore, American folk style is the base martial with the most UFC champions so Americans with an interest in grappling sports just don't see a point in learning Judo. Sadly, Judo lost it's effectiveness when wrestling take downs where removed. Bringing them back would probably increase Judos popularity in the US
It seems as though Judo and Wrestling, require one to be strong and reasonably Athletic. Also, it is apparent that very few people, especially adults, enjoy being thrown. Nothing really hard can be that popular. Therefore, to acquire and keep students, it becomes much softer. It has to really. BJJ is becoming the new Aikido or TKD. Bring on the daycare and aftercare programs. Popularity destroys everything in the end. Most people do these things as hobbies and are not going to be serious competitors. They can’t have injuries. They have to work, take kids to piano lessons and soccer practice., etc. Your points are great, and I have never found a solution to making a hard sport popular unless money and or scholarships are involved. Excellent video. Thanks you.
As someone who started judo in my late 20's and had dabbled in just about every art except for wrestling and Sambo prior, judo is by far the hardest sport/Martial Art I've done in my life. I've seen so many people from other sports or arts come in and just be dead during and after a judo practice. It's really not for everyone, and the injuries that happen are pretty catastrophic. Especially in the states without universal healthcare I'd be worried about doing it. Also judo has like zero room for error on matches and sparring. That's very tough for some people to get through. I wish it was so much more popular even in my country. But everyone I invite to the dojo never comes back because it's too exhausting/rough.
You should do a show on how to get clubs in middle-school. Our school districts are trying to move to year-round, which Judo (being indoors in the air-conditioning) would be a perfect summer sport.
The problem is. Judo is mostly recreational, i mean there are some for profit organizations with better facilities. But BJJ has been highly commercialized, as the go to base for ground fighting in MMA, so even the most cheapest BJJ school prices are expensive and with fees being soo expensive.. the expectation for better facilities are there. While judo is associated to some old run down traditional place with tatami mats and cheaper fees for students.
I'll make this comparison: Judo is like surfing, BJJ is like snowboarding. If you have practised all four, you know the difference. Judo and BJJ are both great but BJJ basics are much more easier to get than Judo basics. Same thing with Surfing and Snowboarding. I'm not talking about kids or super athletic people, I'm talking regular persons with decent athletic skills.
I begin my first Judo class in 2 weeks. I’m so excited to begin. I haven’t taken any other MMA classes before. It’ll be my introduction into the combative sport world. I’m 22 and work every day (ironworker) but I’ve been making time for a head start on conditioning. Run a mile after work for cardio Calisthenics for muscle growth Any advice for getting my body and mind ready for class be greatly appreciated!
I'm listening to this and am gobsmacked. This couldn't be any more different to Europe. In Europe judo is so accessible with clubs everywhere. It's a fraction of the price of BJJ, and in a ranking competition you will very often get squad judo players (usual fighting off for gold 😅). Squad players will regularly come down to take a session even at a lower level club. There is very little ego amongst Judo players at all ranks. Judo is a humble sport and perhaps that philosophy doesn't lend itself to how things are in the US? Saying that, it does sound like there may be some issues with the way it's promoted by the US judo association from what's being said. As for the language barrier, you really don't have to speak the language to train, I used to take my gi on holiday, and have always been able to follow what's going on.
The toughest guys I've ever met were at wrestling mentality and physically. The judo club I train at is very technical and welcoming, very nice people but not that big. I've trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for five years trained in Brazil once for two and a half months .was a very good experience and good training with multiple black belts and high-level competitors. Now......... Bjj, I have met some very nice people, but....I don't know what it is about Brazilian jiu-jitsu, but I've met some of the BIGGEST weirdo freaks wannabe tough guy's creeps Cultsh behavior back stabing people straight out lying scumbag control freaks. Honestly, I enjoy Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I would love to train catch wrestling some Sambo, but you have to make do with what is available.
Question for Shintaro: It looks to me that IJF keeps changing rules to stay relevant in the Olympics by making Judo look different from wrestling in PJs to the layman Olympics viewer. It diluted the value of Judo - Judo is getting really weak in competing against Sambo and BJJ outside of Judo rules. Shouldn't someone finally say "f#ck off" to IJF and start teaching Judo as more practical and thus relevant outside of Judo clean-room environment?
To the people watching the olympics they're worlds apart. Another one is sweaty ppl doing all the bedroom moves clothed in swimsuits and the other ones throwing each other in "PJ's" as you put it. Judo has no problem surviving on its own. In the states it might be marginal sport, but luckily the world is a much larger than that. Everyone crying for the leg graps are just ppl who saw them removed. I've started way after and not needing any of it. What comes to Judo losing to other martial arts outside the Judo ruleset, thats a marginal part of the art for normal recreational hobbyist.
I think you guys missed to focus more on a lot of points on explaining the difference in BJJ and Judo. 1) exposure through MMA for so many years 2) BJJ keeps evolving into American JJ producing champions like Gordon Ryan. Of course the wrestling tradition in the USA helped. It’s becoming local. Judo is too Japanese. 3) BJJ has many different rule sets (EBI, combat, AdCC, etc) and different styles. 4) BJJ has steroids everywhere 5) everyone made money from online courses. So it became through internet more accessible. Etc. it helped people to get more knowledge Etc. Judo sucks because it’s an Olympic sport not evolving. Everything that becomes an Olympic sport gets f…up.
@@jojojojo6253 yes and its because of people that think like you that judo is dying being the "father" of anything/anyone doesn mean you're entitled to stay on top forever lol
For me, what makes BJJ so attractive is that you can have so many different styles. Wrestler? There's your take down style. Did 3 years of Judo? There's your takedown style. Pure BJJ guy? Learn to pull guard properly and pull directly into diferent types of guards and sweeps. There's your takedown style. Now, that's just takedowns/grip fighting. That's the very beginning of the match. From there, there's so many different styles you can play on the ground, that I don't even want to start giving examples. BJJ is rediculously open and fluid, because it allows for almost everything except for strikes and from any type of position, with no dumb rules that take you out of the match for arbitrary reasons like "oh your shoulders are on the mat, you're out!". It's fight or tap, that's it. Makes it so much more fun.
100%! Plus, there are formats available where strikes are allowed, whether it’s mma, Combat Jiu Jitsu tournaments, self defense training, or just plain old “jits with hits” that we train at our gym from time to time. It’s totally up to the practitioner as to what they want to focus on, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to focus on the sport aspect.
@@muaythairaja I certainly think judo can be effective for self defense, but to say it's actually 'for street self defense'-how do figure? I have yet to come across a Judo dojo that actually emphasizes self defense. It's usually all about that perfect ippon and not getting pinned, which often involves giving up your back-Not exactly conducive for self defense, depending on the situation. All of these arts (or what my coach calls 'delivery systems') have their gaps. That's why it's best to have a solution for all ranges. Right?
It's even worse for Kosen Judo!! Took a few classes while I was stationed at Camp Fuji and fell in love lol. Couldn't and still can't find anything here in the states.
Kosen Judo still exists in Japan? My HS Wrestling Coach was a 2nd Dan/Level Black Belt. His Instructor (Japanese Immigrant) at the Academy he went to was a Kosen Judo Master.
I wouldn’t say Judo devolved even though it lost a lot of techniques, but rather it branched off and made its upper body throws more technical and modified it’s leg grabs to suit the current judo. Two examples are kata guruma/fireman’s carry or the kouchi-makikomi. Kind of like how in Pokémon, a monster could choose one of its multiple evolutions (Eevee for example) and it doesn’t necessarily become bad, but better in its own aspect. Just look at how wrestlers and BJJ guys always admire Judo throws even though it has “devolved.”
In my town, there’s a huge Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu academy with a state of the art gym and lots of people who go to it. My dojo is a small hut with nothing but mats and a maximum of about 15 people showing up for a training session, but I don’t care. I just want to do Judo and not BJJ. There’s lots of black belts and a very knowledgeable sensei at my club, and that’s all you need. I respect BJJ, but if that’s why people choose it over Judo then I don’t understand the reasoning. Can forget all the social media likes because at the end of the day ,that doesn’t make or break a martial art.
One of Kale Sanderson’s team mates is a black belt in BJJ. (He also has a photographic memory) The intensity and control he has is amazing. And very cool. Most people in our gym (Unified in SLC) want more judo to improve their standing game. Being well rounded in your hand to hand martial arts is important. Just like skipping leg days, can’t skip striking for grappling. Can’t skip gra-pling for striking.
One contrast I’ve noticed since coming to Judo a few years ago is that there’s a lot more BJJ guys who emphasize innovation. Think about some of the titles of videos in BJJ, “don’t get left behind,” and “this guy is changing BJJ” and “new wave.” Not that nobody innovates in judo, but it ought to be marketed!
BJJ has incredibly evolved, Judo has devolved and lost techniques, I watched some tapes of ne waza from the 50s and it was like day and night compared to today. Also you should include the nonsensical shido and mates, the future of judo is dark
I disagree that Judo has devolved but it’s adapted to be spectator friendly. Unlike BJJ where you do need some proficiency to enjoy some matches to understand what’s happening Judo is simply visually exciting. The removal of techniques such as leg grabs is only in its competition setting and does not mean it’s removed from the curriculum of Judo. Removal of certain moves directly contributes positively to things like standing up in an attacking posture rather then hunched over and defensive, which in turn creates opportunity for bigger explosive techniques. If we are real when it comes to visual appeal and spectators, Judo wins as there are no lack of big technique matches… where BJJ there are many slow and even down right boring matches, especially For the spectator who may not know what they are looking at. Everything has its place.
Injury prevention and highlighting how much sambo/judo is used in ufc and bring it in to bjj gyms. My bjj gym teaches takedowns but I’d like to learn more from judo/sambo/wrestling professionals from this
The formality in judo is the biggest thing working against it in the US, It's that slice of Japanese culture that doesn't really align with American sensibilities The "proper etiquette" And it's not really even a Japanese thing it's a judo thing, I feel more comfortable training BJJ in Japan then I do judo in the US. The whole thing is just so much more relaxed. It's so rigid you feel on edge the entire time everyone is quiet and completely focused when sense is talking and make sure you don't accidentally walk in front of someone or turn your back to the wrong person or face in the wrong direction or not bow properly blah blah blah. Or else you get a lecture about Japanese culture from a guy that can't even pronounce the name of the moves hes teaching correctly Meanwhile go do some BJJ in Tokyo and guys are laying around on the mat bullshitting and having a good time
Why does Judo suck? Because it's always sudden death victory. Imagine if a basketball game was over after the first goal. Basketball would suck too. I know the Japanese like that kind of ruleset but a lot of the west doesn't like sudden death unless for a tie breaker.
People always say "wrestling is the number 1 background art for MMA!" And I'm like... that's because it's scholastic. Any small town in America you flip over a rock and 3 wrestlers will pop out and tell you how close they got to states.
Completely agree that BJJ gatewayed me back to judo. I did judo as a kid like a lot of Western kids, but didn’t really get it and dropped away. I’ve gotten into BJJ as a Masters athlete, love the gi and that has led to several of us getting into judo for its own sake. Our BJJ club now has a judo club with people competing in both sports.
In other countries judo is included in many games meets also there are regionals and nationals regularly, not to mention the special events in Mexico and Cuba etc. But point made, the countries that have it in most schools have a ready made fan base. I personally believe that the rule sets need looking at and Worllds is now only for the top 100 in ranks.
I would love to train at a legitimate judo school but there are also none in my area. Jiu jitsu and karate schools on every corner and some teach judo on the side to help complement the style but no where near for just judo
grass roots. so, kiddies after-school programs with government subsidies for low income parents and appeal to the non-competitor adult. The greater percentage of people training aren’t competitors, but they pay fees and the more fee payers allows for more tournaments. Even having more novice division tournaments.
There are alternative Judo associations and sanctioning bodies that are doing it in a way that resembles the old-style GOOD judo and having success at growing in a grassroots manner because they offer education, competition and support. Small local Judo clubs are generally affordable (not everyone can afford the $150-200 month BJJ school fees, speaking of elitism) and provide a great opportunity for folks to train in areas not large enough to support a large BJJ school. Most Judoka aren't going to be Olympians and don't need to train like them or with them, most are hobbyists and there are some great programs for these folks; and support for coaches to run their own similar clubs. I'd suggest anyone interested research the AAU, JBBA and IFJA.
I think BJJ should be rebranded tbh, most modern BJJ schools provide a mixture of grappling arts, any decent school will teach wrestling, judo, and BJJ. There are no rules to where BJJ can go, Judo as it's own isolated martial art has already reached it's peak.
I think something that would help Judo grow is to Judo to target applications towards MMA. The strict sport rules of Judo are a limiting factor affecting that though. I am not familiar with Judo rules but you cannot grab legs or do leglocks is that correct? I think this makes Judo not appeal to MMA fans. There are TONS of MMA fans and many people walk into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu classes just from watching UFC the weekend before. Even so I imagine Judo schools would get more attention if they catered to MMA fans.
So you would add leglocks to judo? That would attract the MMA fans? Or is there more required? Judo doesn't practice its leg locks in sparring or comp because it's very concerned with safety and a shredded knee is debilitating. They also don't want kids to imitate certain techniques. But seriously, what else should judo change to appeal to MMA fans. I do judo and I'm an MMA fan btw.
@@gajorg69 I absolutely agree with your sentiment about the dangers of leglocks. And adding it to Judo would likely have little value. But leg grabbing seems essential for adding more "wrestling" to some variation of judo. Maybe Nogi judo has a chance to take off? Leg grabbing is likely excluded from sport Judo for a good reason. Judokas and BJJ fighters should be able to handle a white belt off the street who shows up off the street with a rashguard and shorts and not require them to put on a jacket. And it is very reasonable to tell the white belt that hell hooks are banned. And anyone who ignores that should be shown the door. I honestly don't really know what judo could do to attract more MMA fans. I have been doing no-gi ju jitsu for a while now but I have zero MMA experience just a few Muay Thai classes. I just noticed a lot of people coming through my jiu jitsu classes who were big UFC fans and a good number of MMA fighters. It might be as simple as as school putting MMA in their marketing and stating that judo has many useful elements that would help MMA fighters get better. And that would not be a stretch at all. So it seems some elements of BJJ and Nogi BJJ could be beneficial to Judo and definitely BJJ needs a lot more Judo since too many BJJ guys have trashy top games. Cheers!
One thing that would boost judo in popularity is changing the perception of it. Many would say "Judo is a sport", and after all, it started as a way to continue the practice of elements of jiu jitsu while staying within the bounds of the Law in Japan during the Meiji Restoration. But if Judo was perceived as a 'combat art' and practicioners demonstrated mainstream success in popular competitions like MMA, it would channel interest and energy into the art. For instance, a man who became an extended champion in MMA who was a judo master could begin expounding on some of the differences between judo and BJJ and how these differences could be helpful in certain circumstances. Just IMHO.
The reason BJJ exploded is because of the UFC. The Gracies invested a lot of money to make sure BJJ could be exposed to the world as a viable martial art and, it paid off. Wrestling is an integral sport at the high school and colegial level in the United States. Judo has never had a large movement to push for its mainstream acceptance.
True, TODAY'S JUDO is so watered down that "sucks" is a compliment. So many goofy rules today makes real bad ass judoka sick. Soon we will be seeing judo matches with the fighters wearing helmets, gloves, chest protectors and shin guards, plus pink ballerina slippers. It seems like every day we're hearing about this or that technique being banned because it is "too dangerous". I fought in the bad ass days of the 1960s. I was good, but not great. I only got to the Nationals once and the best I could do was come out fifth in the Open Weight division. I missed the podium. But the guys who got there were animals. Judo then was more like Kano JuJitsu than today's ultra restricted matches.
Another issue is specialization. How many gyms exist with ONLY Jiu Jitsu? Vs “Gi, nogi, and kick boxing” or “MMA school, Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai here” only reason I even started my current Judo gym is because their website said judo, Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling. If you can cast a wider net you’ll attract more people. Lots of MMA guys want to do Judo but aren’t willing to lose Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai from their training to learn it. If you could have more judo in MMA gyms more people would do it.
I love and prefer Judo, but as someone that moves around a lot in the US, any state Ive moved to, the closest pure Judo gym was at least 1 hour away, the closest BJJ gym is 5 minutes, I think a giant problem in American Judo is lack of qualified teachers throughout the US vs BJJ.
I am 49 years old and I am a white belt in judo it's a good excersize I enjoy the work our my club is very safe we do an hour of nage waza and 30 min of ne waza .
Shintaro, you also described issues with weightlifting, powerlifting, & strongman. Olympic lifting is dead in america because the greats are inaccessible, gyms are hard to find, and high barrier to entry(okay a lot more but just to highlight your points). But you can go to some of these powerlifting or strongman gyms and meet those people. Powerlifting also has that accessibility edge for the demographic of people youre talking about - adults with disposable income. Those people populate the gyms, give coaches jobs, and go to local and state-level competitions. Watching powerlifting is like watching paint dry for anyone who isn't a powerlifter. I think Strongman has the best blend of everything, which is why its on ESPN and you can barely find a stream for powerlifting. It knows exactly what it is, and does not bend its will to try to fit into the olympics (powerlifting is and its not going well). I pretty much agreed with a lot of your points I dont think I have all the answers but I think if outreach is the goal we definitely have to mess with the rules and how competitions are run.
I truly wish I had studied judo now that I am in BJJ. I have five black belts, but not in judo. I used to think it was a sport and useless to my law enforcement and military careers. Boy, was I wrong, and I wish I had studied it when I was young. I had no idea how valuable it really was for the streets and my work. Now I am too old (60) with one replaced knee and the other too bad to practice it now.
I think it's important to note that if you aren't 18 and under there are really no wrestling options outside of mma gyms if youre not elite and go to college
I am probably older than most who will watch this discussion: I can remember the 1960s! And in that decade as I recall, judo was often mentioned, it was "in the air," it was even the martial art of many characters in action TV shows or novels or comics. At the same time, probably only a tiny, tiny handful of Americans had ever even heard of BJJ, and I don't know if there was a single school in North America teching "Gracie Jiu--Jitsu," but I would really, really doubt it. All martial arts came from Asia, basically from Japan, and that seemed permanent. Remember how little information anyone could get about anything unfamiliiar, and especially in/from a foreign country, back in those long-ago years of no Internet and comparatively little international travel and interaction, compared to now. It's a different world for martial artists, believe me. Like I wrote, it felt in retrospect, and of course I was then quite young, as if judo was having its breakthrough moment in the USA that could have led to great size and influence. But it never happened! Why not? I"ve never seen anything on this subject, but my simple opinion follows. 1) the country is too spread out, and it was already blanketed with freestyle wrestling from coast to coast. In fact, there might have been even more participation in wrestling than there is now. So no critical mass of dojos and judokas ever built up maybe in any region in this nation, even while judo was galloping ahead in Europe, South America, central Asia, Cuba (!), etc., etc. 2) At some point the American judo world split into USJA vs. USJF, like two dogs bickering over a too-small bone. I don't know exactly when that occurred, but it also couldn't have helped. 3) in 1973 the Bruce Lee movie "Enter the Dragon" debuted in the United States, and for the next twenty years the only MA that boys and young men (always the core MA "market" in any country) wanted to know about were the "chopsocky" martial arts: karate, kung fu, TKD, kickboxing, eventually in the 1980s Muay Thai. And the flashier the spins, kicks, and flying fists the better, just like those Asian (occasionally white) guys and gals on the movie screens! The chopsocky movies became even more numerous, more ubiquitous, after the early video age meant that one no longer needed to go see such Chinese-import films at maybe one dingy independent theatre in a whole city for a week or two; but could load up on what felt to us like unlimited videotapes to watch at home with or without your buddies. 4) When a scrawny little foreign guy in a white gi shocked the sports nation in 1993, he wasn't a judoka! He was Royce Gracie showing BJJ to America for (for the overwhelming majority of people) the very first time in the course of winning the tournament-style UFC 1. WTF was this new magic? And so the BJJ gold rush in the United States was born, and it left what there was of absolutely stagnant and disjointed American judo in its dust, brushed aside. (5) I think that the loose, informal, friendly, often downright funny, imported Brazilian culture in BJJ academies attracted far more loose, informal, friendly, often downright funny Americans than stiff, formal, unsmiling, rarely downright funny, imported Japanese culture ever did, or could. Smart money-focused Brazilian pioneers created a kind of "franchise" system that grew the number of clubs rapidly and across the country. (6) No-gi fighting as an option. The sacred judo gi, by contrast, was never to be substituted with some fighting shorts or leggings, T-shirts or sports bras--also more congenial to U.S. informality, in this case in getting dressed.
Jiu Jitsu is way more "40-something-with-money" friendly. Can be practiced somewhat safely and still provide a lot of confidence, gradual advancement, and skill (in relative terms, age and body adjusted). Judo is scary for that same crowd. It is badass, effective, tough. But scary for someone who has to put on a suit and walk to work, knees and all intact
Instead of trying to compete with BJJ, maybe judo should occupy its own niche and become the Spartan Race of grappling sports. I think the company behind Spartan Race is doing well…as is CrossFit for example…even though the portion of Americans who do those activities is small
If Judo returns to its original values and original purpose, self defense and the martial art…if we offer Judo for all people not just the athletes and younger people, we should tailor for the older practitioner, tailor for the hobbyist and professionals in a safer way, doing more Kata and drills… the art Judo is an amazing art.
What you describe as non-existent, or existing in a micro-scale level in the US have existed in Europe since 1950-60. The development of Judo in Europe was heavily supported by Japanese teachers. Why the same didn't happen in the US ? What's the US judo federation doing ?
It's time to reunite Judo and Jiujitsu. We can have a conversation about the ruleset sure, but everyone involved would benefit from getting to train both arts without having to pay two tuitions. Outside of the Olympics, grappling arts are homogenizing and Judo not being a part of the equation means grapplers are missing out. No-gi Judo would be SO popular in the US. Why is it not an option anywhere? At BJJ schools you have wrestlers teaching wrestling classes, where are the Judo classes? There's definitely demand for it.
Valid, I feel like I am older than these two, did Judo and Jujitsu pre-UFC with Grace. Umm even then it wasn’t like an intense shift, like 12 people in our classes to like 20. Heck people then would see my Gi and make comments like “throws? Like what Steven Sigil does?” 😂
i am an older, newbie. Training 2 days judo, 2 days bjj a week. i love the aspect of 'martial art' of judo, but at the same time it can be little too up tight. seems like im perpetually the new guy in the judo as judo is HARD. if you want to popularize something, introduce it into the hip hop culture. look at what was typically for 'blue collar, white" demographics, its now in the pop culture zeitgeist. Carthartt, lifted trucked, mullets, country music collab with some hip hop influencers!
I started judo at the age of 15 and am now 72. Still in great shape. In real life, imagine being slammed on concrete and you might fall on top of him. It's extremely brutal. Judo also has arm bars, wrist locks, leg locks, choking and grappling. Judo means the "gentle way." There is nothing gentle about it. I'm 5'4" which gives me a great advantage. I got to workout with the all Japan team! What an experience! I was attacked once in my life and it was over with quickly. In most cases, a martial artist won't be fighting another martial artist on the street. A judoka might be going against an unexperienced fighter. There are some brutal throws illegal in sport judo, e.g., Olympics. A judoka must also be in extremely great shape, e.g., weight training, aerobics.
I am also one of the people who has never done Judo, but I think Judo is under-appreciated. In my youth I dressed up my dead grandfather who had rigor mortis. I like throws but I don't like ground fighting. It is too much contact, and resembles the dead meat. That is why I went to boxing. The problem is that people see BJJ and MMA as the ultimate fighting, and it is an ego problem. But real judokas are as strong as a brick wall, and very fluent in their fighting.
I also practice goju ryu karate do I am a brown belt I do both for self defense, yes tournament are fine but really why do this exercise and self defense. Emotional control ect.
I did practice Judo from my 7 to my 21s and practice Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu for over 10 years now. The mains differences for me were: Judo is more competitive and less friendly than BJJ, in training and in competitions. It's easy to see, just watch competitions from both, in Judo, they barely look at each other if not fighting, everything is too formal and that's all. In BJJ, they compete hard, but they always greet each other, in the class too, this helps keep it friendly. Second is that Judo is harder on the body than BJJ. It's very hard see a Judoka training with over 35 years old. Usually they are full of injuries. I myself broke my elbow in a quick arm lock that stop my Judo trainings, not mention, shoulder and lower back injuries (did a surgery). Today I just can train BJJ, I love it, but miss a lot Judo. Unfortunately that's the way it is.
Great perspective, I am not so sure that Judo is more dangerous than BJJ in the long-term. Seems to me it requires the person to be in better physical condition to do it safely and there is a higher barrier to entry, but the modern rule set actually makes it safer if you're properly prepared. Just as with BJJ, how and who you train with is most important. Both arts should cater to hobbyists but let's keep our perspective - that's not the primary issue for Judo in the US. I don't know any place that has Wrestling for adults, yet Wrestling is very popular. Also, Judo is equally hard on the body across the world, yet it is very popular outside the US. Every long-term BJJ guy that I know or seen on youtube is banged up and there is definitely false advertising when it comes to safety of BJJ, particularly for the 35+ crowd. Theoretically, it can be trained safely, but that's not what happens at the vast majority of gyms. I think this will comeback to bite them.
Hi all. My two cents: When it comes to access to champions, you cannot compare bjj and judo. In every bjj’s weight category there are champions of different ranks: white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts. Additionally, there are age categories, where there are also champions of different ranks. In contrast, in judo, each category has only one world champion. I agree that judo champions do not conduct seminars and camps. This is for one reason: the world competition is so strong that they cannot afford losing the time. Lifespan of judo champion isn’t that long compared to bjj champions due to extreme high competition With all respect to BJJ fighters, the level of sport performance is totally different and incomparable between them and judokas. To become a judo champion takes more than bjj.
Honestly another big thing that makes it hard for judo to grow on social media is that there's such a culture of elitism in it. It's great that we strive for perfection, but I've posted my throws in videos on Facebook groups before and received nothing but hate like 'is that really a brown belt? How shameful, etc.' We need to be more supportive and constructive
Agreed and a lot of judoka hate on unconventional throws or grips. Many are just stodgy and set in their ways
Yeah it's definitely a barrier for me as someone who would love to make judo content in the future.
In france before black belt u're a beginner , i'm a green belt and i sometimes beat some brown belt with weird throw , but on average peope are happy to see u come often and try hard
I'm sorry you received so much hate. I think that may be less about judo culture and more about social media culture (aka trolls).
@@ryanwilliams9984funny you mention that. Travis stevens said that he did a clinic doing unconventional grips and the instructors were like nah don’t do this. To the students!
MY BJJ gym has paired up with a local Judo gym and now offers a Judo class on a Friday evening. It doesn't cost anything extra as the Judo class is included in the BJJ membership.
I'd say that's the way to go for Judo. MMA has made BJJ crazy popular. Rather than Judo trying to compete against that, it needs to get in with it and promote how Judo will blend with BJJ
Judo is an Olympic Sport with 140 countries participating. I don't think Judo needs bjj
@@muaythairaja In the US, Judo needs all the help it can get.
Completely agree that BJJ gatewayed me back to judo. I did judo as a kid like a lot of Western kids, but didn’t really get it and dropped away.
I’ve gotten into BJJ as a Masters athlete, love the gi and that has led to several of us getting into judo for its own sake. Our BJJ club now has a judo club with people competing in both sports.
I think something that can really help Judo is if trainers look into physio and injury prevention courses. Learning and teaching all the best exercises to keep judo players from trashing their bodies.
Additionally, I notice Japanese Judo tends to be more technique oriented and well timed. They tend to wait for kuzushi instead of forcing a throw. It's a wise approach tactically, but also for safety. They seem to do judo well into their senior years, and i think technique has a lot to do with it. Proper form applies to any form of lifting.
From what i understand thats a big east west thing
I coach a judo club at a mid sized Midwestern university in the middle of corn fields. The nearest judo dojo is 48 miles away. I have to compete with a whole boatload of organizations that students can choose from. We work out in the wrestling practice room which is cavernous. I wish I could fill it.
"Nice you are still doing karate." Lol
I train at a BJJ school where the head instructor is a world champion and also a judo brown belt. Our adult gi classes are divided into 3 categories. Fundamentals/beginners class, advanced class & the black belt program. All three classes have heavy emphasis on stand-up (judo/wrestling) techniques. It makes up a third of every class. It's what we drill the most other than guard passing. Fundamentals students can learn and drill judo throws but are not allowed to use them in live sparring. Advanced students all start sparring on their knees but are allowed to do throws or pull guard if the roll naturally progresses to standing. In the black belt program, all sparring starts in the standing position and you're not allowed to pull guard so you're forced to learn/use judo or you won't be rolling. You have to earn your newaza. I absolutely love this approach. You get the best of both worlds. 🥋✌🏼
That's how BJJ was Pre-2001 (turn of this century). Too many BJJ Schools on focus on building up to MMA, which from 2001 to Present, is based on rule sets that favor Wrestling (US NCAA Wrestling) and striking.
What would white belts use in your sparring sessions though?
I really want to learn judo. The problem is there is no schools within a reasonable distance in any sense for me. The last time I looked, I think the nearest school was 3 - 4 hours away. So I have had to go to BJJ instead. I found those classes to be somewhat frustrating at times because the stand up grappling and takedown portion of the game was effectively an after thought if it was addressed at all.
Well Wrestling is a good second choice if you want to improve your stand up grappling if Judo isn't available
Bjj stance on stand up Is literally judo is perfect we focus on 99% groundwork… Judo is super popular in Brazil more so then bjj so it’s easy to train both
@user-vc6 I'm in the US. Judo just isn't a big thing here. Unless you live in a big city, Judo is virtually non-existent.
@@VTdarkangel yeah, after moving to canada im in a similar situation it totally sucks. what about wrestling? ... yeah i was only trying to explain why you felt the art is incomplete ( like zero takedowns ),, its actually a hyper focused judo (on the ne waza/ground work) and its actually was kinda expected you to already knew or took judo for the takedown aspects.. so when imported to new students who became teachers and then again.. the takedowns were lost and it feels (it actually is for many gyms) incomplete ... if you learn from a bjj instructor look for 'professors' that do stand up takedowns like claudio casalans or jacare ( both judo black belts).. still being careful is best. simply learning a throw wrong can have a training partner break you leg and it happens alot with bjj guys trying judo without knowing how dangerous it is
@user-vc6 I've done a little bit of wrestling, and there is some benefit there. However, in my experience, the game has gotten so sport focused and on getting the pin that much of the martial aspect has been lost. Things like the focus on shooting for someone's leg make me a little nervous about taking a knee to the face. Perhaps my perspective is still a bit shallow because I haven't done enough wrestling, but I'm also not so sure where to find good wrestling classes. I know that at my school, finding someone interested in practicing takedowns is difficult.
As a 40 year old BJJ student (1 year exp.), I think that Shintaro is absolutely correct.
By allowing the lower belts to compete helps grow the sport, especially with all the kids coming through the pipeline!
I personally follow Shintaro for his mastery and passion for Judo, but I don’t do judo myself.
BJJ (newaza) NEEDS judo! In order to be a well rounded grappler BJJ practitioners have to be better at stand up, takedowns, wrestling’s and throws!
I trained BJJ for about 5 years before I was unfortunately forced to walk-away. I thoroughly enjoyed doing it, but there was always a glaring absense of discussing and practicing takedowns at both schools I trained at. When the topic was covered, it a quick gloss over when tournaments were coming up if any instruction was given at all. Even then you either understood how takedowns worked or you were just screwed. In my personal opinion, modern BJJ needs to get reacquainted with its Judo roots in a major way. The problem is that it near impossible to find Judo schools, at least in my part of the country. The last time I looked, I couldn't find one that didn't involve driving at least 3 - 4 hours one way.
Why would bjj needs judo ? Nogi bjj wrestling >>>> judo. If you don’t believe me look up average wrestler like rod destroying judoka’s in nogi, or Brandon reed vs Olympic judoka etc etc. So depends nogi bjj wrestling is and will be far superior ( footsweep uchi mata are very good tho but many judo throws in nogi are wayyy less effective )
@@youngbuddha7778 nogi is only one part of BJJ and without a doubt, wrestling is very good for that side. However, wrestling doesn't work as well with the gi. Certain habits developed in wrestling (at least in my experience) leave openings when there is a gi to grab. Modern wrestling also has a habit of leaving both fighters on the ground which is not ideal when training self-defense. Judo addresses those concerns. I'm not saying wrestling is bad or you should do only one or the other. However, I am saying Judo has some distinct advantages that is unwise ignore.
@@youngbuddha7778 Yes, Judo is at max a plus but it's not necessary at all to be a well rounded grappler/BJJ fighter. Also, most people forget that the original BJJ, Gracie JiuJitsu, had already incorporated wrestling elements since the beginning of their practice, including holds, take downs, and even striking. Maeda before arriving in Brazil was fighting catch wrestlers and other styles of grapplers all over the world, and he transmitted all this experience to his students in Brazil.
Bjj literally has all of judo incorporated into it. Every judo throw is actually part of bjj and most bjj is technically part of judo … the arts in the gi are meant really to be combined. In Brazil judo is more popular then jiu jitsu so it’s not a problem at all..just in America you get instructors who have never learned the throws like original Brazilians already knew
This episode’s a good crash course on applied business economics
I think judo banning leg grabs did far more damage to its popularity than people realise. A major problem is it greatly undermined judo as a self-defence martial art. If you're someone who's main thing was boxing or kickboxing, and you want to learn how defend yourself in a grappling situation, in the past a lot of people would have picked judo because it does such a good job of teaching you how to take someone down, without going to the ground with them. By getting rid of leg grabs and by extension, defence against leg grabs, it now appears to have a major hole in its defence, which is why most people pick BJJ or wrestling over it. This combined with the fact that it's only done in the gi, causes a lot of people who are not familiar with it to say "it's just a sport, it's not a real fighting style." If that wasn't bad enough there's also the fact that by banning leg grabs, it now gives an advantage to taller fighters, which really sucks because judo used to market itself as the small guys weapon against a big guy.
If judo wants to be popular again it needs to 1 bring back leg grabs 2 have no gi classes and tournaments 3 partner with MMA gyms, and 4 get rid of this conservative elitist mindset of "Well if we did that, it wouldn't be judo." Judo needs to adapt or die.
Eh, nogi judo with leg grabs is literally just wrestling. But yeah I agree.
@@asdfasdf1397 The most popular forms of western wrestling don't have submissions, Judo does.
@asdfasdf1397 Wrong. If you score a throw in wrestling it doesn't count as an automatic win. This is what makes Judo unique and it's why it is so awesome for self defence, because if someone grabs you in a street fight, your aim should be to try to throw them, without going to the ground with them. If there was no gi and leg grabs were allowed, I would class it as THE best martial art for self-defense.
@@millennialwatchman6703 It's a very good self defense system but incomplete on its own, you should also know how to strike ideally (and how to avoid getting struck).
When Judo lost it's leg grabs- th-cam.com/video/GR_O4Bh5z3Q/w-d-xo.html
I love judo but I find it very hard to continue to teach judo in my area. I’ve been training for 11 years and have only made ikkyu, as there are few instructors to learn under. However, if I stop teaching I’m afraid judo will completely disappear off the schools schedule further reducing the practice in this area.
You should launch a PR crusade against BJJ butt scooters who pull guard all the time… “You don’t have to scoot your butt, come learn Judo!” Maybe there’s a cartoon with a bjj guy who’s wincing from matt burn on his butt from scooting. I really hope someone does this I need this in my life.
My son has been doing judo for 10 years and I am a Bjj black belt and 100% agree with everything you said and have thought it for a while. Judo should be so much more prevalent in the US and Aus (where I am). Another two things is the belt system primarily adult v junior, so when you are an adult amateurs compete it makes the weird. Also the nogi side and the pro circuit that developed from it. I would love more nogi judo to be taught. Great podcast ✊🏼
I'm in Aus too, thinking of picking up judo as an adult now (34). Bjj experience about 6 years, a blue belt currently. What do you think it's like as an adult picking up Judo in Aus/NSW, and who'd like to compete from time to time?
@@supplemarmot1244I know you didn't ask, but my opinion is that you should give judo a go. I've been doing it 11 years, since I was 11, so I can't speak personally about starting later, but it's something you should try.
A lot of older people I train with find it hard to adjust to being thrown, having grips broken and being bumped (failed foot sweeps, etc). But if you stick with it, you will enjoy it, you'll just have to give it time. Not just a couple of weeks, but long enough for your body to adjust. Hope this helps
When BJjJ has gone, Judo will still be here. It isnt a business, it is a way of life.
Another thing BJJ has that Judo hasn’t capitalized on is its recent exposure in pop culture via Joe Rogan, Jocko, even Zuckerberg and other celebrities are BJJ practitioners now. Judo needs to jump on that train as at least as a good complimentary art to BJJ.
Keanu reeves is the greatest judo ambassador...
Al Bundy is a BJJ black belt
And in the germany it is the other way around.
Finding a "decent" judo place is easy(-ish), wrestling is pretty much non existing.
Damn, now i know where to go
Same in Ireland
Same in Canada. Only wrestling is the odd MMA gym..
This wasn't my experience at all. There are tons of judo clubs, but by and large, they generally didn't really care much about really teaching judo. Most of the classes barely bothered actually teaching anything. Hell a good third of the classes were spent playing football/soccer. Most of the time, the black belts just trained with each other and everyone just had to fend for themselves.
I’ve been training bjj for almost 14 years now, but I’ve always had a strong interest in judo. (Huge credit to Shintaro’s TH-cam content for helping me make my crappy bjj ‘judo’ kinda work on people.)
I’ve thought about training at the Obukan judo club here in Portland, and I’ve stopped in several times to watch. They’re super nice guys, but the curriculum is strictly Kodokan, sport-focused and therefore probably not very translatable to my main sport due to all of the gripping rules. I really should just get over that mental block, but it’s there nonetheless.
But that’s why I like Shintaro’s content so much-it’s much broader, open, and dynamic. I think the best way to popularize judo is probably through bjj (and mma) by offering a more adaptable version of judo. A version that’s a little less focused on getting that perfect, clean ippon, and maybe a little more focused on situational adaptability.
My 2 cents.
I would go for it. I've been doing judo for a few years, and on my off season spent some time in BJJ. The BJJ guys realized right away even in no gi that I had done something before and my base and pressure were noted right away. Their is lots of carry over.
My dojo practices sports rules, but you still learn tons of gripping and breaks, principles are still transferable, and most BJJ guys can't grip anyways so no problems there.
Keep In mind majority pf wrestling, judo, bjj has the same techniques just called different besides bjj came from judo find a school that does wazza if you are a bjj guy then u will have fun with that
Hi. If you live in PDX and looking for judo/bjj, there is a place in NW, they used to be called Portland Judo, I think they have a new name now. But great group of people, and they do judo and bjj. I enjoyed my time there when I was in the area.
Thank you for your work supporting Judo! Doing classes with a Cuban Judoka recently.
Started judo 2 months ago because of watching you, Mr.Shintaro. I hope to go as far as I can. I'll even give updates on how the journey is goin!
90% of BJJkas don't compete. For most, it's not a sport at all, so it sells like hot-cakes. It thrives on social connectedness and group bonding. Very different from Judo. Wrestling works because of institutional support as an academic sport. Statistically, no one wrestles after college; it has no paying adult "community". If Judo majors on sport, but has no cultural institutional support, there's no paying market, and no coalescing around critical mass.
I started in BJJ in 2017 and quickly found out that what I was really most interested in was judo. Following a break, a return, and an extended hiatus due to the pandemic, I've been trying to get back into grappling, and in addition to hopefully starting judo soon, I've fallen head over heels into the amateur sumo community in the US, with the hope that there's some cross-pollination in grappling skills between the two that will carry me forward and improve my grappling. I can't help but get this feeling that judo is absolutely the underdog of the three, as you mentioned, and I hope that can change in the near future. Amateur sumo unfortunately doesn't even really currently make sense to include in the discussion, but perhaps in the future we can get an American banzuke and something will change there.
Sounds similar to me. Did bjj before the pandemic. Never went back but went to a judo school as it was a hell of a lot cheaper and found it more interesting. Nothing against bjj just fell for the judo bug
More Judo gyms need to share gym space with BJJ gyms. That way the operating costs are shared.
It would be great for students of both arts too. Literally everybody wins.
I do version of Traditional Japanese Jiujitsu and our dojo shares its local with Karate , Sumo and Kung Fu folk on different hours. We are few in our city with Japanese Jiujitsu but i love it, it was closest to Judo that I could find and that Is near me. I got my yellow belt from white after few months 😃 i got to learn my first hip throw.
Shared to my community. Thank you sensei. Osss. 🥋
My original instructor taught judo techniques as part of the basic curriculum and I've always loved it. But, as you say here, it can be hard to even find a dojo here in the US. I've had a ton of conversations with other BJJ guys about how we'd like to train Judo as well. I wonder if part of growing the sport could be introducing Judo classes at BJJ schools where there is an interest.
I think this is a very American thing. Over the pond in Scandinavia, Europe where I live, Judo was (and prbably still is where available) the friendliest and most down-to-earth type of martial art you can practice. It is only elite-level for those who want to and not completely just "aim for the big medals". Then it simply got outcompeted totally by BJJ, by the mystique after MMA and so few Judo clubs are still around.
But my impression of the BJJ clubs I visited and tried to put my son in, is that it is far more "respect" and hierarchy, but in a Brazilian macho way, instead of a Japanese sensei style, but far from the welcoming and friendly than what I encountered in Judo. At least that is what Judo used to be. Now I have a hard time finding a club that doesn't just do kids classes (which are still great) and competition oriented classes for 15-25 year olds. I cannot find an adult class for normies within distance.
Your not wrong, it is an "American thing" Every American HS has a folkstyle wrestling team that's either free to join or less than $100 for the year, something briefly mentioned in the video. It makes zero sense for a parent in the US to pay a dojo $100-$200 dollars a month when their kids can just join the school's wrestling team where every Judo throw is also legal and taught without a gi. Furthermore, American folk style is the base martial with the most UFC champions so Americans with an interest in grappling sports just don't see a point in learning Judo. Sadly, Judo lost it's effectiveness when wrestling take downs where removed. Bringing them back would probably increase Judos popularity in the US
@henrikg1388 i've noticed nordic countries have Judo on smoothcomp, here in the UK they are very resistant to anything new
It seems as though Judo and Wrestling, require one to be strong and reasonably Athletic. Also, it is apparent that very few people, especially adults, enjoy being thrown. Nothing really hard can be that popular. Therefore, to acquire and keep students, it becomes much softer. It has to really. BJJ is becoming the new Aikido or TKD. Bring on the daycare and aftercare programs. Popularity destroys everything in the end. Most people do these things as hobbies and are not going to be serious competitors. They can’t have injuries. They have to work, take kids to piano lessons and soccer practice., etc. Your points are great, and I have never found a solution to making a hard sport popular unless money and or scholarships are involved. Excellent video. Thanks you.
As someone who started judo in my late 20's and had dabbled in just about every art except for wrestling and Sambo prior, judo is by far the hardest sport/Martial Art I've done in my life.
I've seen so many people from other sports or arts come in and just be dead during and after a judo practice.
It's really not for everyone, and the injuries that happen are pretty catastrophic. Especially in the states without universal healthcare I'd be worried about doing it.
Also judo has like zero room for error on matches and sparring. That's very tough for some people to get through. I wish it was so much more popular even in my country. But everyone I invite to the dojo never comes back because it's too exhausting/rough.
You should do a show on how to get clubs in middle-school. Our school districts are trying to move to year-round, which Judo (being indoors in the air-conditioning) would be a perfect summer sport.
I really like Judo but it's hard to find a school and if you do find a school all they teach is kids.
Great, on-target comments! I have been trying to revive judo by networking our military bases and it is tough. Your comments gave me some great ideas.
The problem is. Judo is mostly recreational, i mean there are some for profit organizations with better facilities. But BJJ has been highly commercialized, as the go to base for ground fighting in MMA, so even the most cheapest BJJ school prices are expensive and with fees being soo expensive.. the expectation for better facilities are there. While judo is associated to some old run down traditional place with tatami mats and cheaper fees for students.
I'll make this comparison: Judo is like surfing, BJJ is like snowboarding. If you have practised all four, you know the difference.
Judo and BJJ are both great but BJJ basics are much more easier to get than Judo basics. Same thing with Surfing and Snowboarding.
I'm not talking about kids or super athletic people, I'm talking regular persons with decent athletic skills.
I begin my first Judo class in 2 weeks. I’m so excited to begin. I haven’t taken any other MMA classes before. It’ll be my introduction into the combative sport world. I’m 22 and work every day (ironworker) but I’ve been making time for a head start on conditioning.
Run a mile after work for cardio
Calisthenics for muscle growth
Any advice for getting my body and mind ready for class be greatly appreciated!
I'm listening to this and am gobsmacked.
This couldn't be any more different to Europe.
In Europe judo is so accessible with clubs everywhere. It's a fraction of the price of BJJ, and in a ranking competition you will very often get squad judo players (usual fighting off for gold 😅).
Squad players will regularly come down to take a session even at a lower level club.
There is very little ego amongst Judo players at all ranks.
Judo is a humble sport and perhaps that philosophy doesn't lend itself to how things are in the US?
Saying that, it does sound like there may be some issues with the way it's promoted by the US judo association from what's being said.
As for the language barrier, you really don't have to speak the language to train, I used to take my gi on holiday, and have always been able to follow what's going on.
The toughest guys I've ever met were at wrestling mentality and physically.
The judo club I train at is very technical and welcoming, very nice people but not that big.
I've trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for five years trained in Brazil once for two and a half months .was a very good experience and good training with multiple black belts and high-level competitors.
Now.........
Bjj, I have met some very nice people, but....I don't know what it is about Brazilian jiu-jitsu, but I've met some of the BIGGEST weirdo freaks wannabe tough guy's creeps
Cultsh behavior back stabing people straight out lying scumbag control freaks.
Honestly, I enjoy Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I would love to train catch wrestling some Sambo, but you have to make do with what is available.
you were doing good until you generalized a whole martial art to weirdos . Straight up clown
Question for Shintaro:
It looks to me that IJF keeps changing rules to stay relevant in the Olympics by making Judo look different from wrestling in PJs to the layman Olympics viewer. It diluted the value of Judo - Judo is getting really weak in competing against Sambo and BJJ outside of Judo rules. Shouldn't someone finally say "f#ck off" to IJF and start teaching Judo as more practical and thus relevant outside of Judo clean-room environment?
To the people watching the olympics they're worlds apart. Another one is sweaty ppl doing all the bedroom moves clothed in swimsuits and the other ones throwing each other in "PJ's" as you put it. Judo has no problem surviving on its own. In the states it might be marginal sport, but luckily the world is a much larger than that. Everyone crying for the leg graps are just ppl who saw them removed. I've started way after and not needing any of it. What comes to Judo losing to other martial arts outside the Judo ruleset, thats a marginal part of the art for normal recreational hobbyist.
I think you guys missed to focus more on a lot of points on explaining the difference in BJJ and Judo.
1) exposure through MMA for so many years
2) BJJ keeps evolving into American JJ producing champions like Gordon Ryan. Of course the wrestling tradition in the USA helped. It’s becoming local. Judo is too Japanese.
3) BJJ has many different rule sets (EBI, combat, AdCC, etc) and different styles.
4) BJJ has steroids everywhere
5) everyone made money from online courses. So it became through internet more accessible.
Etc. it helped people to get more knowledge
Etc.
Judo sucks because it’s an Olympic sport not evolving. Everything that becomes an Olympic sport gets f…up.
ajj... bjj... it's all japanese at the end of the day
Judo is the father of BJJ..Maeyda was Judoka
Boxing its an olympic sport
@@jojojojo6253 yes and America used to be a British colony.
@@jojojojo6253 yes and its because of people that think like you that judo is dying
being the "father" of anything/anyone doesn mean you're entitled to stay on top forever lol
BJJ has great marketing and is super low impact. Anyone can roll BJJ on day one from a 60 year old grandfather to a 90lb woman. Judo notsomuch.
For me, what makes BJJ so attractive is that you can have so many different styles. Wrestler? There's your take down style. Did 3 years of Judo? There's your takedown style. Pure BJJ guy? Learn to pull guard properly and pull directly into diferent types of guards and sweeps. There's your takedown style. Now, that's just takedowns/grip fighting. That's the very beginning of the match. From there, there's so many different styles you can play on the ground, that I don't even want to start giving examples. BJJ is rediculously open and fluid, because it allows for almost everything except for strikes and from any type of position, with no dumb rules that take you out of the match for arbitrary reasons like "oh your shoulders are on the mat, you're out!". It's fight or tap, that's it. Makes it so much more fun.
100%! Plus, there are formats available where strikes are allowed, whether it’s mma, Combat Jiu Jitsu tournaments, self defense training, or just plain old “jits with hits” that we train at our gym from time to time. It’s totally up to the practitioner as to what they want to focus on, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to focus on the sport aspect.
That's true. Just wish BJJ rules would give more points to the standup game so the takedowns don't become a complete afterthought.
@@TerraThink I agree.
Bjj may be for "fun", but Judo is for street self defense.
@@muaythairaja I certainly think judo can be effective for self defense, but to say it's actually 'for street self defense'-how do figure? I have yet to come across a Judo dojo that actually emphasizes self defense. It's usually all about that perfect ippon and not getting pinned, which often involves giving up your back-Not exactly conducive for self defense, depending on the situation.
All of these arts (or what my coach calls 'delivery systems') have their gaps. That's why it's best to have a solution for all ranges. Right?
It's even worse for Kosen Judo!! Took a few classes while I was stationed at Camp Fuji and fell in love lol. Couldn't and still can't find anything here in the states.
Kosen Judo still exists in Japan? My HS Wrestling Coach was a 2nd Dan/Level Black Belt. His Instructor (Japanese Immigrant) at the Academy he went to was a Kosen Judo Master.
@@joeruiz4010 I don't know how many places actually teach/train in Japan but I know that there is a kosen judo program at Kyoto university
@@modestogonzalez182 That's awesome. Kosen Judo is scary.
@@joeruiz4010 yes it is!! The practitioners are extremely dedicated!!!
I care about your princeton medals, bro. I care. Great job, man!
I wouldn’t say Judo devolved even though it lost a lot of techniques, but rather it branched off and made its upper body throws more technical and modified it’s leg grabs to suit the current judo. Two examples are kata guruma/fireman’s carry or the kouchi-makikomi.
Kind of like how in Pokémon, a monster could choose one of its multiple evolutions (Eevee for example) and it doesn’t necessarily become bad, but better in its own aspect.
Just look at how wrestlers and BJJ guys always admire Judo throws even though it has “devolved.”
In my town, there’s a huge Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu academy with a state of the art gym and lots of people who go to it. My dojo is a small hut with nothing but mats and a maximum of about 15 people showing up for a training session, but I don’t care. I just want to do Judo and not BJJ. There’s lots of black belts and a very knowledgeable sensei at my club, and that’s all you need. I respect BJJ, but if that’s why people choose it over Judo then I don’t understand the reasoning. Can forget all the social media likes because at the end of the day ,that doesn’t make or break a martial art.
One of Kale Sanderson’s team mates is a black belt in BJJ. (He also has a photographic memory) The intensity and control he has is amazing. And very cool. Most people in our gym (Unified in SLC) want more judo to improve their standing game. Being well rounded in your hand to hand martial arts is important. Just like skipping leg days, can’t skip striking for grappling. Can’t skip gra-pling for striking.
One contrast I’ve noticed since coming to Judo a few years ago is that there’s a lot more BJJ guys who emphasize innovation.
Think about some of the titles of videos in BJJ, “don’t get left behind,” and “this guy is changing BJJ” and “new wave.”
Not that nobody innovates in judo, but it ought to be marketed!
As a judoka and jiu jitiero I feel like yall are aware of the problems now who’s going to do something about it…
BJJ has incredibly evolved, Judo has devolved and lost techniques, I watched some tapes of ne waza from the 50s and it was like day and night compared to today. Also you should include the nonsensical shido and mates, the future of judo is dark
I disagree that Judo has devolved but it’s adapted to be spectator friendly. Unlike BJJ where you do need some proficiency to enjoy some matches to understand what’s happening Judo is simply visually exciting. The removal of techniques such as leg grabs is only in its competition setting and does not mean it’s removed from the curriculum of Judo. Removal of certain moves directly contributes positively to things like standing up in an attacking posture rather then hunched over and defensive, which in turn creates opportunity for bigger explosive techniques.
If we are real when it comes to visual appeal and spectators, Judo wins as there are no lack of big technique matches… where BJJ there are many slow and even down right boring matches, especially For the spectator who may not know what they are looking at.
Everything has its place.
Injury prevention and highlighting how much sambo/judo is used in ufc and bring it in to bjj gyms. My bjj gym teaches takedowns but I’d like to learn more from judo/sambo/wrestling professionals from this
The formality in judo is the biggest thing working against it in the US, It's that slice of Japanese culture that doesn't really align with American sensibilities
The "proper etiquette"
And it's not really even a Japanese thing it's a judo thing, I feel more comfortable training BJJ in Japan then I do judo in the US. The whole thing is just so much more relaxed.
It's so rigid you feel on edge the entire time everyone is quiet and completely focused when sense is talking and make sure you don't accidentally walk in front of someone or turn your back to the wrong person or face in the wrong direction or not bow properly blah blah blah. Or else you get a lecture about Japanese culture from a guy that can't even pronounce the name of the moves hes teaching correctly
Meanwhile go do some BJJ in Tokyo and guys are laying around on the mat bullshitting and having a good time
Can’t find any judo schools near me. bJJ is everywhere tho. I live in the US
Why does Judo suck? Because it's always sudden death victory. Imagine if a basketball game was over after the first goal. Basketball would suck too. I know the Japanese like that kind of ruleset but a lot of the west doesn't like sudden death unless for a tie breaker.
That’s a good point
That's fair. Even as a competitor sometimes it gets on my nerves. There is like zero margin for error. Most unforgiving sport I've ever done.
A benefit actually
Although in bjj and grappling also you can be.behjnd and then submit
Or boxing knockout
There’s no pure judo academy in northern Virginia.
There is Sport Judo in Springfield, headed by Maurice Allan. I just learned this today.
Been looking for judo in northern VA to, possibly found one in Mt airy as well. Looking into getting more info
People always say "wrestling is the number 1 background art for MMA!" And I'm like... that's because it's scholastic. Any small town in America you flip over a rock and 3 wrestlers will pop out and tell you how close they got to states.
Completely agree that BJJ gatewayed me back to judo.
I did judo as a kid like a lot of Western kids, but didn’t really get it and dropped away.
I’ve gotten into BJJ as a Masters athlete, love the gi and that has led to several of us getting into judo for its own sake. Our BJJ club now has a judo club with people competing in both sports.
Reasons I got out years ago. Injuries & lack of school owner support & no focus by national organizations on recreational judo.
Shintaro are you a watch guy? timepiece lookin slick broski
There is so much in this video that I don't recognise from doing judo in Sweden. Maybe it's very different in USA.
In other countries judo is included in many games meets also there are regionals and nationals regularly, not to mention the special events in Mexico and Cuba etc. But point made, the countries that have it in most schools have a ready made fan base. I personally believe that the rule sets need looking at and Worllds is now only for the top 100 in ranks.
I would love to train at a legitimate judo school but there are also none in my area. Jiu jitsu and karate schools on every corner and some teach judo on the side to help complement the style but no where near for just judo
grass roots. so, kiddies after-school programs with government subsidies for low income parents and appeal to the non-competitor adult. The greater percentage of people training aren’t competitors, but they pay fees and the more fee payers allows for more tournaments. Even having more novice division tournaments.
Is there a gym in seattle that you would refer for someone wanting to compete in judo
It’s hard to find a judo dojo n most areas
how dangerous is judo relative to other martial arts? I'm a newbie
There are alternative Judo associations and sanctioning bodies that are doing it in a way that resembles the old-style GOOD judo and having success at growing in a grassroots manner because they offer education, competition and support. Small local Judo clubs are generally affordable (not everyone can afford the $150-200 month BJJ school fees, speaking of elitism) and provide a great opportunity for folks to train in areas not large enough to support a large BJJ school. Most Judoka aren't going to be Olympians and don't need to train like them or with them, most are hobbyists and there are some great programs for these folks; and support for coaches to run their own similar clubs. I'd suggest anyone interested research the AAU, JBBA and IFJA.
I think BJJ should be rebranded tbh, most modern BJJ schools provide a mixture of grappling arts, any decent school will teach wrestling, judo, and BJJ. There are no rules to where BJJ can go, Judo as it's own isolated martial art has already reached it's peak.
Those of us who have been doing it for a while have started to call this American jujitsu
I think something that would help Judo grow is to Judo to target applications towards MMA. The strict sport rules of Judo are a limiting factor affecting that though. I am not familiar with Judo rules but you cannot grab legs or do leglocks is that correct? I think this makes Judo not appeal to MMA fans. There are TONS of MMA fans and many people walk into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu classes just from watching UFC the weekend before. Even so I imagine Judo schools would get more attention if they catered to MMA fans.
So you would add leglocks to judo? That would attract the MMA fans? Or is there more required?
Judo doesn't practice its leg locks in sparring or comp because it's very concerned with safety and a shredded knee is debilitating. They also don't want kids to imitate certain techniques.
But seriously, what else should judo change to appeal to MMA fans. I do judo and I'm an MMA fan btw.
@@gajorg69 I absolutely agree with your sentiment about the dangers of leglocks. And adding it to Judo would likely have little value. But leg grabbing seems essential for adding more "wrestling" to some variation of judo. Maybe Nogi judo has a chance to take off? Leg grabbing is likely excluded from sport Judo for a good reason. Judokas and BJJ fighters should be able to handle a white belt off the street who shows up off the street with a rashguard and shorts and not require them to put on a jacket. And it is very reasonable to tell the white belt that hell hooks are banned. And anyone who ignores that should be shown the door. I honestly don't really know what judo could do to attract more MMA fans. I have been doing no-gi ju jitsu for a while now but I have zero MMA experience just a few Muay Thai classes. I just noticed a lot of people coming through my jiu jitsu classes who were big UFC fans and a good number of MMA fighters. It might be as simple as as school putting MMA in their marketing and stating that judo has many useful elements that would help MMA fighters get better. And that would not be a stretch at all. So it seems some elements of BJJ and Nogi BJJ could be beneficial to Judo and definitely BJJ needs a lot more Judo since too many BJJ guys have trashy top games. Cheers!
Nice headline about your own Martial Art 👏
One thing that would boost judo in popularity is changing the perception of it. Many would say "Judo is a sport", and after all, it started as a way to continue the practice of elements of jiu jitsu while staying within the bounds of the Law in Japan during the Meiji Restoration. But if Judo was perceived as a 'combat art' and practicioners demonstrated mainstream success in popular competitions like MMA, it would channel interest and energy into the art. For instance, a man who became an extended champion in MMA who was a judo master could begin expounding on some of the differences between judo and BJJ and how these differences could be helpful in certain circumstances.
Just IMHO.
The reason BJJ exploded is because of the UFC. The Gracies invested a lot of money to make sure BJJ could be exposed to the world as a viable martial art and, it paid off. Wrestling is an integral sport at the high school and colegial level in the United States. Judo has never had a large movement to push for its mainstream acceptance.
Pls explain more details about judo streets fight with none grappling uniform 🙏
Same throws, different handles.
True, TODAY'S JUDO is so watered down that "sucks" is a compliment. So many goofy rules today makes real bad ass judoka sick. Soon we will be seeing judo matches with the fighters wearing helmets, gloves, chest protectors and shin guards, plus pink ballerina slippers. It seems like every day we're hearing about this or that technique being banned because it is "too dangerous". I fought in the bad ass days of the 1960s. I was good, but not great. I only got to the Nationals once and the best I could do was come out fifth in the Open Weight division. I missed the podium. But the guys who got there were animals. Judo then was more like Kano JuJitsu than today's ultra restricted matches.
Another issue is specialization. How many gyms exist with ONLY Jiu Jitsu? Vs “Gi, nogi, and kick boxing” or “MMA school, Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai here” only reason I even started my current Judo gym is because their website said judo, Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling. If you can cast a wider net you’ll attract more people. Lots of MMA guys want to do Judo but aren’t willing to lose Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai from their training to learn it. If you could have more judo in MMA gyms more people would do it.
I love and prefer Judo, but as someone that moves around a lot in the US, any state Ive moved to, the closest pure Judo gym was at least 1 hour away, the closest BJJ gym is 5 minutes, I think a giant problem in American Judo is lack of qualified teachers throughout the US vs BJJ.
Nice tongue-in-cheek rant!
We have to be better! :D
I am 49 years old and I am a white belt in judo it's a good excersize I enjoy the work our my club is very safe we do an hour of nage waza and 30 min of ne waza .
What school did Peter go to again?
Shintaro, you also described issues with weightlifting, powerlifting, & strongman. Olympic lifting is dead in america because the greats are inaccessible, gyms are hard to find, and high barrier to entry(okay a lot more but just to highlight your points). But you can go to some of these powerlifting or strongman gyms and meet those people. Powerlifting also has that accessibility edge for the demographic of people youre talking about - adults with disposable income. Those people populate the gyms, give coaches jobs, and go to local and state-level competitions. Watching powerlifting is like watching paint dry for anyone who isn't a powerlifter. I think Strongman has the best blend of everything, which is why its on ESPN and you can barely find a stream for powerlifting. It knows exactly what it is, and does not bend its will to try to fit into the olympics (powerlifting is and its not going well). I pretty much agreed with a lot of your points I dont think I have all the answers but I think if outreach is the goal we definitely have to mess with the rules and how competitions are run.
I truly wish I had studied judo now that I am in BJJ. I have five black belts, but not in judo. I used to think it was a sport and useless to my law enforcement and military careers. Boy, was I wrong, and I wish I had studied it when I was young. I had no idea how valuable it really was for the streets and my work. Now I am too old (60) with one replaced knee and the other too bad to practice it now.
I think it's important to note that if you aren't 18 and under there are really no wrestling options outside of mma gyms if youre not elite and go to college
I am probably older than most who will watch this discussion: I can remember the 1960s! And in that decade as I recall, judo was often mentioned, it was "in the air," it was even the martial art of many characters in action TV shows or novels or comics. At the same time, probably only a tiny, tiny handful of Americans had ever even heard of BJJ, and I don't know if there was a single school in North America teching "Gracie Jiu--Jitsu," but I would really, really doubt it. All martial arts came from Asia, basically from Japan, and that seemed permanent. Remember how little information anyone could get about anything unfamiliiar, and especially in/from a foreign country, back in those long-ago years of no Internet and comparatively little international travel and interaction, compared to now. It's a different world for martial artists, believe me.
Like I wrote, it felt in retrospect, and of course I was then quite young, as if judo was having its breakthrough moment in the USA that could have led to great size and influence. But it never happened! Why not? I"ve never seen anything on this subject, but my simple opinion follows. 1) the country is too spread out, and it was already blanketed with freestyle wrestling from coast to coast. In fact, there might have been even more participation in wrestling than there is now. So no critical mass of dojos and judokas ever built up maybe in any region in this nation, even while judo was galloping ahead in Europe, South America, central Asia, Cuba (!), etc., etc. 2) At some point the American judo world split into USJA vs. USJF, like two dogs bickering over a too-small bone. I don't know exactly when that occurred, but it also couldn't have helped. 3) in 1973 the Bruce Lee movie "Enter the Dragon" debuted in the United States, and for the next twenty years the only MA that boys and young men (always the core MA "market" in any country) wanted to know about were the "chopsocky" martial arts: karate, kung fu, TKD, kickboxing, eventually in the 1980s Muay Thai. And the flashier the spins, kicks, and flying fists the better, just like those Asian (occasionally white) guys and gals on the movie screens! The chopsocky movies became even more numerous, more ubiquitous, after the early video age meant that one no longer needed to go see such Chinese-import films at maybe one dingy independent theatre in a whole city for a week or two; but could load up on what felt to us like unlimited videotapes to watch at home with or without your buddies. 4) When a scrawny little foreign guy in a white gi shocked the sports nation in 1993, he wasn't a judoka! He was Royce Gracie showing BJJ to America for (for the overwhelming majority of people) the very first time in the course of winning the tournament-style UFC 1. WTF was this new magic? And so the BJJ gold rush in the United States was born, and it left what there was of absolutely stagnant and disjointed American judo in its dust, brushed aside. (5) I think that the loose, informal, friendly, often downright funny, imported Brazilian culture in BJJ academies attracted far more loose, informal, friendly, often downright funny Americans than stiff, formal, unsmiling, rarely downright funny, imported Japanese culture ever did, or could. Smart money-focused Brazilian pioneers created a kind of "franchise" system that grew the number of clubs rapidly and across the country. (6) No-gi fighting as an option. The sacred judo gi, by contrast, was never to be substituted with some fighting shorts or leggings, T-shirts or sports bras--also more congenial to U.S. informality, in this case in getting dressed.
Jiu Jitsu is way more "40-something-with-money" friendly. Can be practiced somewhat safely and still provide a lot of confidence, gradual advancement, and skill (in relative terms, age and body adjusted). Judo is scary for that same crowd. It is badass, effective, tough. But scary for someone who has to put on a suit and walk to work, knees and all intact
Instead of trying to compete with BJJ, maybe judo should occupy its own niche and become the Spartan Race of grappling sports. I think the company behind Spartan Race is doing well…as is CrossFit for example…even though the portion of Americans who do those activities is small
If Judo returns to its original values and original purpose, self defense and the martial art…if we offer Judo for all people not just the athletes and younger people, we should tailor for the older practitioner, tailor for the hobbyist and professionals in a safer way, doing more Kata and drills… the art Judo is an amazing art.
Kata isn't self defense. So that is counter to becoming more self defense based. Jiu jitsu has no kata and does great.
What you describe as non-existent, or existing in a micro-scale level in the US have existed in Europe since 1950-60.
The development of Judo in Europe was heavily supported by Japanese teachers.
Why the same didn't happen in the US ?
What's the US judo federation doing ?
Shintaro, what watch you rockin? :)
It's time to reunite Judo and Jiujitsu. We can have a conversation about the ruleset sure, but everyone involved would benefit from getting to train both arts without having to pay two tuitions. Outside of the Olympics, grappling arts are homogenizing and Judo not being a part of the equation means grapplers are missing out. No-gi Judo would be SO popular in the US. Why is it not an option anywhere? At BJJ schools you have wrestlers teaching wrestling classes, where are the Judo classes? There's definitely demand for it.
Valid, I feel like I am older than these two, did Judo and Jujitsu pre-UFC with Grace. Umm even then it wasn’t like an intense shift, like 12 people in our classes to like 20. Heck people then would see my Gi and make comments like “throws? Like what Steven Sigil does?” 😂
Just started doing judo...gonna train today...yesterday i got thrown by a black belt and my neck hurts
i am an older, newbie. Training 2 days judo, 2 days bjj a week. i love the aspect of 'martial art' of judo, but at the same time it can be little too up tight. seems like im perpetually the new guy in the judo as judo is HARD.
if you want to popularize something, introduce it into the hip hop culture. look at what was typically for 'blue collar, white" demographics, its now in the pop culture zeitgeist. Carthartt, lifted trucked, mullets, country music
collab with some hip hop influencers!
I’ve been wanting to get into judo, does anyone know of any legit places in Houston?
I have seen Westlake represented at tournaments. Guessing there are others.
I started judo at the age of 15 and am now 72. Still in great shape. In real life, imagine being slammed on concrete and you might fall on top of him. It's extremely brutal. Judo also has arm bars, wrist locks, leg locks, choking and grappling. Judo means the "gentle way." There is nothing gentle about it. I'm 5'4" which gives me a great advantage. I got to workout with the all Japan team! What an experience! I was attacked once in my life and it was over with quickly. In most cases, a martial artist won't be fighting another martial artist on the street. A judoka might be going against an unexperienced fighter. There are some brutal throws illegal in sport judo, e.g., Olympics. A judoka must also be in extremely great shape, e.g., weight training, aerobics.
One thing is with things the way they are is BJJ could get watered down, as karate has in the U.S. Judo keeps its prestige.
I am also one of the people who has never done Judo, but I think Judo is under-appreciated.
In my youth I dressed up my dead grandfather who had rigor mortis.
I like throws but I don't like ground fighting.
It is too much contact, and resembles the dead meat.
That is why I went to boxing.
The problem is that people see BJJ and MMA as the ultimate fighting, and it is an ego problem.
But real judokas are as strong as a brick wall, and very fluent in their fighting.
This perfectly describes what i found in the UK 20 years ago when did Judo.
I also practice goju ryu karate do I am a brown belt I do both for self defense, yes tournament are fine but really why do this exercise and self defense. Emotional control ect.
I moved to a town without Judo and I miss it so bad.
I did practice Judo from my 7 to my 21s and practice Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu for over 10 years now. The mains differences for me were: Judo is more competitive and less friendly than BJJ, in training and in competitions. It's easy to see, just watch competitions from both, in Judo, they barely look at each other if not fighting, everything is too formal and that's all. In BJJ, they compete hard, but they always greet each other, in the class too, this helps keep it friendly. Second is that Judo is harder on the body than BJJ. It's very hard see a Judoka training with over 35 years old. Usually they are full of injuries. I myself broke my elbow in a quick arm lock that stop my Judo trainings, not mention, shoulder and lower back injuries (did a surgery). Today I just can train BJJ, I love it, but miss a lot Judo. Unfortunately that's the way it is.
18:22 that is tandoori, correct? Everyone wrestling?
Great perspective, I am not so sure that Judo is more dangerous than BJJ in the long-term. Seems to me it requires the person to be in better physical condition to do it safely and there is a higher barrier to entry, but the modern rule set actually makes it safer if you're properly prepared. Just as with BJJ, how and who you train with is most important. Both arts should cater to hobbyists but let's keep our perspective - that's not the primary issue for Judo in the US. I don't know any place that has Wrestling for adults, yet Wrestling is very popular. Also, Judo is equally hard on the body across the world, yet it is very popular outside the US. Every long-term BJJ guy that I know or seen on youtube is banged up and there is definitely false advertising when it comes to safety of BJJ, particularly for the 35+ crowd. Theoretically, it can be trained safely, but that's not what happens at the vast majority of gyms. I think this will comeback to bite them.
Hi all. My two cents: When it comes to access to champions, you cannot compare bjj and judo. In every bjj’s weight category there are champions of different ranks: white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts. Additionally, there are age categories, where there are also champions of different ranks. In contrast, in judo, each category has only one world champion. I agree that judo champions do not conduct seminars and camps. This is for one reason: the world competition is so strong that they cannot afford losing the time. Lifespan of judo champion isn’t that long compared to bjj champions due to extreme high competition With all respect to BJJ fighters, the level of sport performance is totally different and incomparable between them and judokas. To become a judo champion takes more than bjj.
Great podcast. I never would’ve made it to the NFL without Judo in my life.
I’m a black belt(shodan). Football is easier. Lol 😂