As someone that just got into backpacking, and is working up to my first overnight trip, I am so glad I found this video. It never even occurred to me that people would bail out and turn around.
Mr Nate! Such a great discussion, pal. I’m so glad you share these stories. I’ve watched a lot of YT content about camping - you’re one of three who has had an honest discussion about bail outs. No one else talks about them. We made the right call that night. Never break up the band! ❤
Thanks for this video. Andrew Skurka talks about the "turn-back muscle". Not only does one need to acknowledge the need to sometime turn back, there is also need to exercise that muscle. You are right - this doesn't get talked about as much as it should. All that seem to get publicized are the fatalities or stories of SAR rescues that we all point to and say how a lack of experience and intelligence led to the problem. I did a turn back a couple of years ago where the consequences of pushing on were not fatal or really that physically onerous - but we turned back anyway. Part of the reason was that I was leading this particular trip and others were leaning on my leadership. I still don't know if it was the perfect decision, but 1) I came back the next year to the same hike and had a glorious time. So "the trail will be here next year" is almost always true. 2) My turn-back muscle got some exercise. Looking back through the inputs, probabilities, and consequences - I'm still not sure I'd make the same decisions. But I have practice in that decision process and have harkened back to that time in other trips. Forward to this year and I had a stream crossing in Sequoia on a solo trip. I thought I had arrived early enough in the morning so the snow melt would be low, but the crossing was sketchy. Consequences were high and could have involved death. Working through my options (one was doing a really unhappy backtrack) I "thinked my way through" the problem and ended up solving it safely. That thinking of and exploring options took more than an hour, but it enabled me to make the crossing with ultimate safety and then visit a gorgeous alpine lake that I had all to myself for a couple hours. My turn-back muscle helped me really enjoy that trip to its fullest even though - in the end - I didn't actually fully turn back.
I love those experiences! The ones where you turn back and don’t regret it are good decisions, but those times when you find a way through and avoid turning back are almost more rewarding and memorable than when the trip goes exactly as planned.
I love this video! You were spot on, bailing out doesn't make good video thus we don't see it. How you breakdown the reason/risk for bailing out is a life lesson I will keep with me. Thanks!
Thank you for poining this out. So many people don't talk about this. I have bailed on many a trip. Bad weather, underestimated the terrain and the miles I could cover in a day. Are just a few reasons. On a trip to a new place I often look for alternative routes in case I have to bail or can get to the place I intended to get to. Thank you!!!😊
Im glad your talking about this... this topic is extremely prevalent in the mountaineering world. "Go until it doesn't make sense." is a moto many mountaineers go by or another one is "I'll turn back once the mountain tells me to." It's all about gut feeling and risk assessment, knowing your limits and the limits of your gear. You can always try again until you push it to far and either die or get seriously injured. It sucks to have to turn back, especially after thousands of vertical feet and tens of miles deep, but if the situation is telling you to get out while you still can you better listen. Just remember that, "GO UNTIL IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE" or "LISTEN TO THE MOUNTAIN AND FOLLOW HER LEAD". Trust yourself and your instincts.
I love that! Mountaineers are so much better prepared and trained for the most part than I am as a backpacker…I can’t imagine being in the situations and places that they are in and having to make those judgement calls.
@ It comes with experience and mentorship. Being with someone more experienced and knowledgeable allowing you to get to your edge and riding the line knowing they’ve got your back. It builds trust in yourself! Another way is in the perfect conditions just pushing a bit further than you normally would and over time you’ll find that you can do so much more than you think you ever could. But as a long time backpacker and now mountaineer thanks for spreading the message it’s ok to turn back to the new comers and intermediate outdoorsmen / women. It’s a very important lesson to learn and become ok with.
I recently took my brother on his very first backpacking trip. In the morning when we were breaking camp, his headlamp batteries died and I didn't bring backups. We probably could have proceeded and made due with my headlamp and a rechargeable clip on light, but there were storms coming the following night and some risk of high water. I've been on trips where I have made cascading bad decisions that led to a bad trip. I wanted his first trip to not end with serious problems, so we pulled the plug after one night on the trail. I hope it gave him a taste for backpacking and hopefully he'll come back for more.
It’s soooo worth it to make sure it’s something that you can enjoy over and over and over and over!!!! It’s also scary how easy it is to make the next bad decision after the first one right?! lol.
Altered a route, but never have bailed. I do understand the need to “complete every step”…that’s done for others, not for ourselves. Ask yourself at the start of every hike, who am I doing this for. 🤷♀️
Just had to bail on a trip last week. There was a river that got too high due to recent rains. It would have been too dangerous to cross. First time I've ever bailed.
You know those stories you hear where someone says something like “I wish I had turned back” or “I knew I shouldn’t keep going but I thought I’d be ok” …
I was just in Norway and bailed out of quite a few things due to going late in season. Just wasn't safe with snow, high winds and 10-20f temps. Frustrating but played it safe.
@@BACKPACKERish Also really nice was TMB (switzerland/italy/france), and northern peru near caraz/hauaraz (think huayhaush or santa cruz trek) was incredible. NZ and tasmania were cool too but I thought norway was better.
As someone that just got into backpacking, and is working up to my first overnight trip, I am so glad I found this video. It never even occurred to me that people would bail out and turn around.
I’m glad you found it! I started solo and bailed on my very first trip lol! There’s always another opportunity!
Mr Nate! Such a great discussion, pal. I’m so glad you share these stories. I’ve watched a lot of YT content about camping - you’re one of three who has had an honest discussion about bail outs. No one else talks about them.
We made the right call that night. Never break up the band! ❤
Thanks Vince! We still need to find a time to get back to Floe though!!!!
@@BACKPACKERish indeed we do. We need an army of computers just to book a date LOL... we'll figure it out, I'm sure.
Thanks for this video. Andrew Skurka talks about the "turn-back muscle". Not only does one need to acknowledge the need to sometime turn back, there is also need to exercise that muscle. You are right - this doesn't get talked about as much as it should. All that seem to get publicized are the fatalities or stories of SAR rescues that we all point to and say how a lack of experience and intelligence led to the problem.
I did a turn back a couple of years ago where the consequences of pushing on were not fatal or really that physically onerous - but we turned back anyway. Part of the reason was that I was leading this particular trip and others were leaning on my leadership. I still don't know if it was the perfect decision, but 1) I came back the next year to the same hike and had a glorious time. So "the trail will be here next year" is almost always true. 2) My turn-back muscle got some exercise. Looking back through the inputs, probabilities, and consequences - I'm still not sure I'd make the same decisions. But I have practice in that decision process and have harkened back to that time in other trips.
Forward to this year and I had a stream crossing in Sequoia on a solo trip. I thought I had arrived early enough in the morning so the snow melt would be low, but the crossing was sketchy. Consequences were high and could have involved death. Working through my options (one was doing a really unhappy backtrack) I "thinked my way through" the problem and ended up solving it safely. That thinking of and exploring options took more than an hour, but it enabled me to make the crossing with ultimate safety and then visit a gorgeous alpine lake that I had all to myself for a couple hours. My turn-back muscle helped me really enjoy that trip to its fullest even though - in the end - I didn't actually fully turn back.
I love those experiences! The ones where you turn back and don’t regret it are good decisions, but those times when you find a way through and avoid turning back are almost more rewarding and memorable than when the trip goes exactly as planned.
I love this video! You were spot on, bailing out doesn't make good video thus we don't see it. How you breakdown the reason/risk for bailing out is a life lesson I will keep with me. Thanks!
Wow! Thank you!!!
Thank you for poining this out. So many people don't talk about this. I have bailed on many a trip. Bad weather, underestimated the terrain and the miles I could cover in a day. Are just a few reasons. On a trip to a new place I often look for alternative routes in case I have to bail or can get to the place I intended to get to. Thank you!!!😊
Always a good plan to have alternates and bail out points!!!!
Im glad your talking about this... this topic is extremely prevalent in the mountaineering world. "Go until it doesn't make sense." is a moto many mountaineers go by or another one is "I'll turn back once the mountain tells me to." It's all about gut feeling and risk assessment, knowing your limits and the limits of your gear. You can always try again until you push it to far and either die or get seriously injured. It sucks to have to turn back, especially after thousands of vertical feet and tens of miles deep, but if the situation is telling you to get out while you still can you better listen. Just remember that, "GO UNTIL IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE" or "LISTEN TO THE MOUNTAIN AND FOLLOW HER LEAD". Trust yourself and your instincts.
I love that! Mountaineers are so much better prepared and trained for the most part than I am as a backpacker…I can’t imagine being in the situations and places that they are in and having to make those judgement calls.
@ It comes with experience and mentorship. Being with someone more experienced and knowledgeable allowing you to get to your edge and riding the line knowing they’ve got your back. It builds trust in yourself! Another way is in the perfect conditions just pushing a bit further than you normally would and over time you’ll find that you can do so much more than you think you ever could. But as a long time backpacker and now mountaineer thanks for spreading the message it’s ok to turn back to the new comers and intermediate outdoorsmen / women. It’s a very important lesson to learn and become ok with.
I recently took my brother on his very first backpacking trip. In the morning when we were breaking camp, his headlamp batteries died and I didn't bring backups. We probably could have proceeded and made due with my headlamp and a rechargeable clip on light, but there were storms coming the following night and some risk of high water. I've been on trips where I have made cascading bad decisions that led to a bad trip. I wanted his first trip to not end with serious problems, so we pulled the plug after one night on the trail. I hope it gave him a taste for backpacking and hopefully he'll come back for more.
It’s soooo worth it to make sure it’s something that you can enjoy over and over and over and over!!!!
It’s also scary how easy it is to make the next bad decision after the first one right?! lol.
Same with sea kayak camping -- sometimes you have to change plans or bail.
I bet! Adding water travel to the mix would just melt my mind!
Live to hike another day. Don't give Kyle a story for his hiker tragedy videos.
Haha! I do love those though…
Altered a route, but never have bailed. I do understand the need to “complete every step”…that’s done for others, not for ourselves. Ask yourself at the start of every hike, who am I doing this for. 🤷♀️
Totally get that! There’s no need to prove yourself to anyone but yourself.
Just had to bail on a trip last week. There was a river that got too high due to recent rains. It would have been too dangerous to cross. First time I've ever bailed.
Glad you made it home safe and are in a place where you can comment on it! It can be a tough call.
You know those stories you hear where someone says something like “I wish I had turned back” or “I knew I shouldn’t keep going but I thought I’d be ok” …
I am so glad that I do t have any of those stories yet!!! Do you have one where you powered through and knew better?
@ only when I sprained my ankle on the last day 10 minutes from the trailhead 🤣 luckily that was an easy decision (I.e. no decision)
I was just in Norway and bailed out of quite a few things due to going late in season. Just wasn't safe with snow, high winds and 10-20f temps. Frustrating but played it safe.
Never a bad call. Norway must have been awesome!!! That’s a bucket list item for me, so I am envious!
@@BACKPACKERish It's the most beautiful place I've ever been and I'm up to nearly 30 countries now.
@ well that didn’t help make me LESS envious! 😂 what was the top of the list before Norway?!
@@BACKPACKERish Also really nice was TMB (switzerland/italy/france), and northern peru near caraz/hauaraz (think huayhaush or santa cruz trek) was incredible. NZ and tasmania were cool too but I thought norway was better.
Another attempt at Lillian lake this winter?
I hadn’t really thought about it yet…but why not!!!
@ let’s crush it!!
Out of curiosity, have you ever regretted NOT bailing on a trip?
There have been some cooooold and wet nights hunkered down, but even those ones are totally worth it!