Oh yeah. Also demoed. The Too Many Bones vibes are strong. I’ll agree that saying it’s 2.0 is hyperbolic but a large % of this design is rooted in TMB IMO.
Another reason not to back this game is if you are coming to this for the IP and looking for a similar experience to other Elder Scrolls titles. Elder Scrolls has always been about open-world exploration, character role-playing and narrative-driven gameplay. Based on what I have seen for this game, it will not really be any of those things. CTG has a great reputation, and I’m sure they will make a great game system, but so far, it is looking more like an Elder Scrolls-skinned CTG procedurally-generated tactical game than something that would be recognized as a typical Elder Scrolls experience. What will make or break the game will be how tightly they incorporate the theme into their system, and right now I have serious doubts about what they have shown. For example, they have shown that in some regions, your NPC tokens will represent “cultists” while in others they might be “bandits”, but you may still be drawing the same Skeever enemy for combat no matter what they call it. No money to gain or spend (the shops give you random stuff for free), thin on-the-rails quest lines, no crafting, limited items and loot (though this grows modestly with stretch goals), the same boss every end game, etc. I don’t think it is worth paying the kind of premium they are demanding for the Elder Scrolls IP if what I’m getting doesn’t even remotely resemble the things that I love about the Elder Scrolls franchise.
Thank you for helping me pull myself out of the unproven money abyss! 🙏 Highly tempted, but too many questions about long-term variety plus the very high price point.
One of your best shouldn't backs, and this is an interesting case given the cost, reputation, IP, lack of info, lack of gameplay content, and quality of the updates/communication. My biggest wait and see is how fun the game actually is. It's clearly proficient, but the examples of combat shown have been very lackluster. Quality of narrative isn't bad but it seems like it's very on the sidelines. Most of the campaign has been about getting into character builds, but you raise a great point that the game isn't going to offer the same variety as carefully crafted characters like Oathsworn or I imagine Too Many Bones itself. My main draw is wanting to try a CTG myself and nostalgia for Elder Scrolls itself. I have the Skyrim board game, and that scratches the itch of the original's wanderlust very well, but the pleasure of character building there is very progression-driven, not strategy-driven like this game appears to be. I like Skyrim's dice combat as well, and I think the two games can coexist okay. I'm probably going to let my pledge lock in, but this is more on faith than I'd normally be comfortable with. Fingers crossed the coming updates will really settle things.
5.) price point - agreed, it’s a lot. Might be able to get a lower price though places like gamenerdz 4.) backing because of free shipping - good point since on their website it’s free shipping over $200 anyways. 3.) character variability issue - I don’t see this as a huge negative since it’s thematic and meant to be super loose and fluid. And with more and more content added, more and more skills come out creating interesting combinations. It’s like being able to create your own Gearloc every-time you play in a sense. 2.) if looking for TMB 2.0 - I do think that this system is an advance of too many bones in many ways. It sort of unlocks TMB from the restriction of pre-built characters and opens up the narrow restrictions of the map. It has the same 11-12 day system as well and the loot basically works the same way. The newest thing here that stands out is the stamina bar at the bottom and that is where this one is going to shine over TMB, and become a 2.0 version. I think the comparison is apt and spot on. 1.) No Rulebook - this isn’t an issue for this company, but I would be worried if it were a new one. CTG has shown way way more here than they did with Cloudspire and that one ended up amazing. I don’t expect this to be any less good from a rules angle and the demo that they did shows a lot of what is going on without a rulebook needed.
Did you feel connected to your character? Did you felt excited for each "level up"? Did you feel challengened within the tactical fights (core game mechanic)?
Sorry thought I responded to this. I wouldn't necessarily say I felt connected to my character, I didn't feel imperial more than argonian (the two demo choices) for example. I did enjoy levelling up because I would get to spend my XP on new dice and that was fun. I also wasn't at the stage where I was running out of room for dice, so could just buy and buy. I found the tactical fights to not be super challenging but the delves were enjoyable with the chance to spawn higher enemies than I felt comfortable to handle
I love deluxifying the games in my collection that see tons of play as it enhances the experience for me. I've spend an embarrassing amount of money on my Arkham Horror LCG collection including storage solutions and 3rd party components but I'm happy to do it because I love the game and it gets a ton of play. For CTG, I feel like you get all of the deluxification up front without having inkling as to whether you'd like the game so the upfront cost and risk is always so immense in comparison to titles from other companies. As a result I keep bouncing off the idea of backing one of their projects. Perhaps one day, once I've tried one of their titles from a friend or at a con, I'll change mind. But for now it's a pass. Oddly enough 20 strong is more appealing to me.
Learned about ctg because of tmb. I really love that game and they are always ready to help with rules or anything if needed. Really great company. Also the community behind ctg is fantastic. 5) I don't care about the price point. Can afford it and I trust in ctg delivering a fantastic game with the best components I can imagine. I'm a sucker for these qualities. 4) yep, this is a nice carrot and "cheapens" the game. Not a reason to back, but thank you ctg. 3) Interesting view. The variety in creating a character is huge. A character will have starting stats. These will be different which makes it smarter to choose the one over the other. So indeed not much difference but it may be important to be the best magician or something else. 2) Thankfully no. I own enough tmb. A 2.0 would make the 1.0 outdated. I would cry if they make a 2.0 haha 1) There is no rulebook... true. But I never read those on campaigns anyway😂 I trust in gameplay vids, my own research, input from discord and my guts. Who wants to read a rulebook upfront? There are always so many changes after the campaign, so what are we reading anyway... lol Thanks for this vid👍
Main reason I backed... Stretchpay, without that there is no way. It is basically $360 for me when converted and I cannot pay that upfront, over 10mnths though is a different story. I will not be surpirsed if it is $450 retail where I live... so I feel it is worth it. The shipping was also a massive thing.
The price point is very high. So that already scares me off. But being at that price point with no rule book makes me even less interested. I know this is going to retail, so I do not feel the draw to jump on right now. That will also give me a year+ to save up for the game after I read the rule book. Thanks for the great video!
Your reason #2 is the main reason why I *AM* backing it... :) As all in for TMB with the Trove Chest, this is the perfect reason for me to pick this because it is so different! :)
It's funny, I was initially excited a year ago when this was announced. Then I tampered my FOMO way down and actually was extremely skeptical heading into the start of this campaign. The very detailed and positive discussion of your experience, however, combined with your #2 actually has me interested again. As someone who has the Trove Chest and basically more content for TMB than he knows what to do with, I was not looking for "just anther TMB clone". If this really does play like it's own thing and feels distinct enough from that, that is a compelling reason to look again at this. That price point though...yikes. Then again, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...I don't really want to admit how much I put into the Unbreakable campaign. Very good video and keep up the great work!
Yeah, I was wondering why the explanation of why "it isn't another TMB" was on the list of reasons not to back it. Like you, and for most people talking on BGG, that's a reason they ARE backing it!
Yeah, all his reasons not to back are all reasons why I did back it! Except for #1 of course, but they've shown so much gameplay its pretty easy to tell how it will go and it looks FUN
What ultimately put me into the 'backing' category is the stretch pay. I know, I'm still paying $230, it's still expensive. But I love the IP and I love all the games it's based on. I really want to own and play it. However if I were to drop the full price all at once after the campaign, just might not happen. I can afford $23 over the next 10 months.
@@willboy334 They sure do. Tbh, loans/payment plans like this is actually a great deal but it does allow people to overspend. If you cant put up the money for the pledge upfront you really shouldnt pledge.
@@-Markus- I could for example pledge up front. But I would rather pay $23 a month. Keep that extra money a month helps a lot. But since you can't put buckets on NPC's heads and steal from them, I'm not getting this one. haha
reason number 2 was the biggest problem for me on this campaign, a lot of reviews i watched talked about how this is similar to too many bones, but focusing on that as much as some reviews do is a problem, especially to people like me who did not play tmb and so "oh you level up like too many bones" is just a way to exclude me from the review (now sure i can go watch a review or read about too many bones but lets be honest, most people wont)
Im not a deluxer guy at all but I would say if this is your first chip theory game the premium health chips are 100 percent worth it because you can also use them in too many bones. The core box chips plastic chips honestly detracted from my experience. There is such an amazing weight to the premium chips and for something you are interacting with about every second of the game it's money well spent. Sadly I think it's something they do intentionally. Putting the bad health chips in a box where everything else is premium they know people will pay up.
Thank you--well balanced and honest discussion to provide clarity and perspective on such a big purchase. FOMO and budget now under control. Thanks for restoring balance in the universe.
I just feel like there’s a huge lack of theme from what I’m seeing. Unfortunately I am going to not be backing us. I’m going to stick with the elder scrolls adventure board game the game has a ton of theme with over 800 cards
34:07 Scarily, that sounds like me :( (I don’t make a TON of money, but I have a job - and I don’t have to pay rent, based on my current living situation. So instead of spending money on rent, I spend on board games). But actually, Chris - I am starting to hear you. I have so many board games around here - and I am getting de-sensitized to all these campaigns; all the grind of looking through the pages; all the “should you back it?” videos, etc. - to the point where I really don’t need to back things anymore - because the marginal satisfaction I am feeling toward board games isn’t as high anymore - and I am thinking about other things (not even objects) besides board games.
Yeah, once the collection hits a certain point, it's really hard to feel the need to have something else come in to that collection. I think it's good to take a break and enjoy the things you have for sure.
I used to think premium chips are meh, but playing a lot of TMB they are better as when you stack a few, the lighter ones are way more prone to tip over/spill. Not so much with the premium ones
I find the map variety to be lackluster, for this price I'd like to see more variety in terms of map shapes. The random nature of delve discovery helps, but you're gonna see a lot of the same as you keep playing. To be fair, I think quests and the delve deck add different strategies to the same tiles - which is nice
Interesting... That being said, I'm going ALL In on this one and cant be more excited. The campaign is looking better every day. Chip Theory Games are amazing.
Man I'm so glad I found your channel. Where have you been my whole life! You convinced me to back this game all the way until your number 1 reason. Everything you were saying made me see how cool this looked but your last point really drove it home. I may still back it in a month or two but there are so many other great games coming out that idk if i'll even be able to; S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Gloomhaven 2.0/ Frosthaven are releasing soon. Oathsworn is still on my list to back before PM closes. I know there's a couple more eluding me atm. There are too many games! I can't get them all especially not all at once. Thank you for making these decisions easier for me... kind of. Either way you flippin rock and thanks for the great content keeping my FOMO somewhat in check.
Aw, thanks! I'm just glad to be able to be somewhat valuable :) Really appreciate you saying so. Honestly, I keep coming back to Elder Scrolls, especially when you see some of the other prices out there. I hope you have a blast with it!
I am so on the fence with this. I am not sold on the deluxified components since I always feel the chips, as good as they feel as a compinent per se, are a poor medium for representing characters compared to minis or even cards. The Artwork is just so small on them. Furthermore at this pricepoint you cannot but compare it to other preium narrative games like Oathsworn, Frosthaven or Isofarian Guard (using chips again...) and this just feels lackluster and flat in terms of narrative as well as gameplay. That being said: The CTG track record is just too good to not consider backing this at all.
On #5: I think people forget that it includes shipping. I live in Switzerland and shipping (even from within the EU) is between 35 up to 55usd for a boardgame.
Seems like you have been looking through my Shelf of Shame based upon your comments about my unopened campaign games… breaking and entering is illegal sir!😂 seriously, you brought up some great points, for myself though, having had every game they have released and loved NEARLY all of the content released, it was an easy one for me. YMMV
It definitely shouldn't be, you're right. But I feel with any sort of collectibles there's always that sense of people feeling like they need to get in on the ground floor.
Regarding reason number 2, Chip Theory Games said in an interview: "This is probably also a good place to mention that a lot of these concepts were already in the works for a potential Too Many Bones sequel. We would have made this game one way or the other, even if we hadn’t landed The Elder Scrolls license. That’s how much we believe in the system we’ve built here." - so yes, this is not TMB2, but it shares some DNA with their vision for a TMB sequel.
I think that exact interview is where a lot of the comparisons come from, but I was expecting for it to feel a LOT more like TMB and was surprised when it didn't. It feels reminiscent of Chip Theory, like all of their titles kind of feel distinctly "Chip Theory", but it personally doesn't give me more Too Many Bones over something like Burncycle (the only other one of theirs that I've currently played)
Its not that skills reset, its that one complete playthrough of the game lasts over three sessions/quests after which youve either won or lost. For me this sounds perfect, 5-10 hours per playthrough suits me perfectly as a solo player. Just wanted to clarify that its not that characters are wiped in the middle of their adventure, the adventure itself is over at that point :)
Great balanced and well-reasoned video, Chris. I'm really glad you got the chance to demo this and get an inkling of how the game will play. Really appreciate that you highlighted the differences between TES and TMB, and I'm relieved that they are distinct enough to both have their own space in the CTG lineup. The exploration aspect and battle system has me more interested in this than TMB, but the combo of price without rulebook just makes me too uneasy to back at this point. Anyway, with the sheer number of backers, and it being tied to a popular IP, there will be plenty of secondhand copies from those who realize this game wasn't for them or their group. Despite me wanting to get a copy down the road cheaper 😁, I do hope this title brings more into the hobby. I'm curious though what the price would be if the TES IP wasn't used. Maybe it could've been 10-20% cheaper, and even allowed the CTG to have a draft rulebook available during the campaign (no IP approval system to deal with)?
CTG often don't have their rulebooks available during the campaigns. Especially, with their bigger games - Too Many Bones, Burncycle, Cloudspire. They're still actively developing the game. Considering how unpolished any rulebook would be for the game, it'd likely be a detractor to have one on the campaign page. The price would be cheaper without the TES IP. But, the IP has already brought in 5x the money that their new IPs typically get during crowdfunding. It wouldn't surprise me to see the campaign end around 3.5M which is pretty significant when their new IPs tend to bring in around 500K.
Hey, Chris! We have a rulebook for the game now. I'd love to see a shorter 2nd look on this, since I know you like TMB and you have some kind of addiction to reading rule books (from what I've seen in the CFs videos hahaha), this one have 100 pages. Cheers!
Got a chance to play White Death as well, and the first scenario was pretty fun. Feels like Black Plague but a bit harder. At least from that first iteration. Honestly might be too hard as it is, but we'll see how it develops.
Yeah FOMO isn't really a factor wrt CTG as there are no exclusives and if you really want it in the future you can buy from the store or second hand which is restricted price wise due to the CTG store. CTG rarely come with a manual as the game is not complete and it's still in the design phase, that's how they have always done it and clearly state if your not happy with it wait for the final game and buy from their store if you don't want to shoulder a risk. As far as I can tell the IP holder is signing off everything so the game would probably need to be complete before any manual is released to the wild. Main concern is the apparent lack of actual gameplay content. Those tiles look like they will quickly become repetitive and tiresome. The lack of Loot is a massive disappointment for an open world style RPG as it's their lifeblood normally. Character builds could be a bit to similar with only minor tweaks and nothing really unique to distinguish them from each other besides bigger/smaller numbers. Cool down system is a strong point from what I've seen. In summary it looks a bit shallow for a CTG game in it's current form and I'm not sure if people who own their other games will respond if it's over simplified. Price point seems comparable to their other base games when you factor in shipping which is subsidizing the expensive countries and the inflation of the recent 12-24 months. My take is CTG games are at the upper end of the market and if your looking at their games and considering buying them then you can afford it. Main thing wrt price is on the face of it this game may look like it's going to really need expansion content to flesh it out and that's where the real cost will lie IMO :P
I think whether you'll find it replayable is dependent upon how you enjoy board games. If you like exploring new things and then stop playing once you've seen it all, then this is likely poor bang for you buck. If you like emergent narrative or roleplaying, then this game has a lot of randomizers to generate that content. If you want crunchy gameplay that keeps you coming back, then it's like every other crowdfunded game - a crapshoot.
On the topic of items, I really hope they don't flood the game with a bunch of generic item cards to fulfill that request from backers. Open world RPGs may have a ton of items, but they're a large pool of generic shit that looks different. Other than appearance, the +1 Sword of Smiting isn't any different from the +1 Malicious Mace. Should they do an expansion that adds an influx of items, then I hope it's an influx of dice. Crafting a bow that swaps out a standard bow dice for a custom one is interesting. It's not simply a stat-boost, it's now a decision. That's fun, cool, interesting and builds out the existing system without making making the existing system uninteresting. I realize there are video gamers that love the hundreds (if not thousands) of items in open world RPGs. But, 99% of these items aren't interesting. The next upgrade is 20-30 minutes away. These forgettable things have already abstracted into the skill system. The other gear is likely meant to represent the more unique items in the world or consumables.
@@VaultBoy13 Yeah I'm not a lover of Diablo slot machine loot showers but they are popular because they massage the gambling gland. Hence the Video Game industries hard press on loot boxes etc as they know for many it's a irrational drive. Personally I prefer loot to provide something my character could not normally do or be very specific for a class not just bigger numbers. My thought process on the apparent lack of loot is there are a relatively large number of classes and thus the loot pool is arguably very small for so many. I like it when classes have some specific items tailored to them so concern is there isn't many and they are all pretty generic? We don't know tough and it seems like the SGs have been adding content including some loot. There is to be a crafting expansion apparently so maybe this will expand this area.
My Patron who lives in Hungary said that it's always been cheaper for him to buy at retail, because the VAT gets kind of factored in when he does. Not sure if it's that way for everyone, but he said he thought it was for most of the EU. I'd go to their web store and mock order something and look back at a previous campaign and see what the difference would be.
@@RoomandBoardReviews Thx for the details. I have ordered from their store in the past and usually it is similar (assuming you get free shipping). BUt will look again. Thx for the tip and in case you find out more, please let me know. Enjoy your videos! Keep them comming
Thanks for this video - even though I am a year late to the party 🤣. The pledge manager is still open so appreciate your well thought out . . .thoughts. When this crowd funded I was focusing on cheap party games after a few big/deluxe games, but the pendulum has swung. Looking at current price of big campaigns, feel like this a win because of the quality, even at $200. Everything costs way more here in the US then it did , Gas is $4 dollars a gallon, good bread $5. $200 for an heirloom game, I get it. But gas is $4, bread $5, am I gonna walk or starve, that's the only question for me 😁
This is the only game I’m buying this year. I’m moving and realized I have more games than I know what to do with anymore. I already have everything else CTG and I know they put out quality games(plus I backed this before I found out about moving).
funnily enough i am watching this after pulling the trigger yesterday after swearing to myself i wouldn't because i am not that intersted in the TES IP.. the thing that finally swung me was the new gameplay videos that are starting to emerge and the similarities to too many bones.. i love CTG but i haven't play too many bones outside of TTS because its just so inaccessible due to pricing (because I want everything, the base box will just not do, like i have with cloudspire, i am not playing all the content but i still bought it all lol).. so seeing that TES BOTSE will give me the TMB style fighting and that its a new IP they plan to expand, I can be there at the start and get all of the expansions and upgrades etc and at the end of its like i will have a £700 collection which no one wants to buy off me but at least I will have kept up with it xD
@@Denzarki haha I'll admit if you have to pull the trigger on one of their games this is a good choice. I'm still pretty excited about it as well (someone bought it for me as a gift) so I think it's gonna be a good one. Hope you like it :)
@RoomandBoardReviews josh from ctg on fb one time replied to me saying if i come down to their head office and help him pack reviewer copies he'll give me a free pledge, if i didn't live in England i totally would've taken him up on the offer 😂.. alas ive had to spend my own money on it.. the very next day, today, my partner says "can we pay for our holiday on your account and I'll pay you back".. "sure...." i said, with my eyes watering 😂
Late pledge is still possible, so I'm still on the fence on this one. Saving VAT by buying it later (in Europe) is a good idea. However, do we have any idea how much more expensive it will get later on? The Too Many Bones base game was under 100€ in the original Kickstarter, and it is now 150€ + shipping. I definitly can't afford the Elder Scrolls game when the price will be multiplied like this, it already nearly too much now (to even be able to afford it). But I AM really excited about this ... (Also, backing only because of the IP and the company doesn't sound far of 😂)
I'm still debating if I should back the game, but I want to share a perspective from somebody in the ROTW section. I agree that the price is high, but the free shipping and ChiptheoryGames partnering with a local publisher to reduce importation taxes made it possible to import the game to Brazil, which is impossible to do with too many bones, for example. I'll compare The Elder Scrolls vs Zombicide White Death. If I'd buy all the playable content from both games, I'd pay $200 for ZWD and $230 for ED. The difference is I'll need to pay more $60 to ship ZWD. Besides that, I'll have to pay between 50%~70% of the total amount (game+shipping) as taxes. In the end, I'd pay around $400-$500 for all content in ZWD, while with the friendly shipping and reduced taxes, I'd end up paying around $260 for all playable content in ED.
hey, i don't have any game from CTG yet. I ordered and I'm waiting impatiently for the Polish edition of TMB ... And I lick every screen on which it is displayed ... When I saw BotSE, I got into it right away, especially since there is a Polish version and I can only guess that the quality of workmanship and pleasure from the game will consume me like no other game (except TMB 😉). This week, extra Ghillie chips came in and I'm enchanted with them 🤩😎😁
Beware CMON games. Campaigns with multitudes of poorly balanced exclusive expansions for bland games. Beware campaigns like Robinson Crusoe where you have a decent base game sold with a hundred different unecessary add ons that will all most likely just sit on your shelf doing nothing. However I make an exception for Chip Theory Games who have a talent for making these ultra creative, vibrant, random, chaotic kind of games that just feel glorious to play. FOMO should not be an issue when in these rare cases the end product is coming from such a uniquely talented team.
1. as of now June 6 2024 rulebook and tutorial book available. 2. The way Too Many Bones abstracted the setting and terrain is exactly why some of my friends didn't like it. Looking forward to see if this game is a better experience for them.
Considering games like Gloomhaven and Frosthaven are going for 250 - 275 USD, and yes those are crazy long campaigns, but the fact that BotSE is a campaign based game over 3 acts, the gameplay bundle comes with 2 expansions with new areas and the amount of content and replayability they are building in the game, it seems reasonably priced at 230 USD for the content.
I still can’t figure out why people back games without knowing anything about them, especially if the price point is really high. I like Chip Theory Games’ merchandise, but I won’t buy games I don’t think I will like, or won’t ever play, unless they are really cheap, say, less than $10. I didn’t buy Cloudspire or Hoplomachus because they didn’t appeal to me. I didn’t back TES:BotSE until I could watch a couple of play-throughs and judge whether or not it would be worth my money. I liked it, thought I and my gaming buddies would enjoy it, so I backed it. If I hadn’t come to that conclusion, it wouldn’t have happened.
Always wanted to play a ctg game, and the ES theme is a big thing as i love that theme. Still, the price point is such a big thing; it's free shipping, but then again, i will pay extra VAT as free shipping is just calculated in the price. The VAT is an extra increase of 40 euro's, kicking the game up to 266 euro's wow... still hoping to get this cheaper via a store.
Noooooooooo You didn't manage to hold me back! ;) Normally you succeed but this time the power of the fun was too strong. Btw I hope they'll get Forteller to voice some of the text in the game ^_^ I want to hear their Khajiit voice! Edit: I just saw like 100 comments on the official trailer where people are commending them on the voice acting and begging for voice actors to do a voice over for the game XD I guess I wasn't the only one thinking that.
Backing because it is CTG and I'm sure I will love it and I can afford it. But agree with your points, I would suggest anyone who is really on the fence to wait for the 2nd campaign with additional expansions, you might end up paying slightly more, but it is worth 5-10% more to be sure about it than make a bad $250 decision
Your aguments make me doubt backing the game (especially the customization). My main doubt is the 3 quest long campaign. I don't mind putting money into a game when I know I will spend hours on it. I'm scared that redoing 3 missions will only be fun 2 or 3 times max. Did you have the feeling that quests are really different in your short experience ?
As you said in the video, for the EU Vat is a killer. Having to pay 19% extra in taxes will stop my FOMO any day (had that surprise with the TMB all in, so Ilearned my lesson :p )
I'm not backing. I have enough backlog to go through for the next couple of years and I can play on PC with mods to be immersed if I need ES fix. I'm saving money now for a new car.
Thank you, you talked me off the cliff of going for the late pledge. I was kind of looking for Too Many Bones 2.0 so I appreciate you being more genuine about the comparisons there than I've seen from basically everyone else.
This game is gonna be sick. I'm not a chip theory fan boy. I think burncycle sucks. But TMB is a masterclass and this feels very similar with a world I love.
Went out for lunch, got some bad food, very unsatisfied. Bloating and pain and it think to myself I could have got premium health chips that last forever!
You absolutely won’t get this game for a similar price point since you’ll have to pay shipping when you order later. You mentioned how expensive shipping can be in this video.
There are more people that should take this video to heart. I signed up day one, but ultimately canceled it. Too much money for what you get and I don’t want to pay more for the game since shipping is covered for everyone with free shipping, resulting in people the us having to pay more for shipping that they would normally pay.
I don't have any experience with chip theory... all their stuff seems overpriced for what it is... *though this is the most interested I've been in one if these sky-rim games...
As a fellow Canadian, I almost never back anything. The only game I have backed so far is trick shot (come on, I wouldn't be a true canadian without a good hockey game) but I have to admit I almost dropped out just cause of shipping and the currency exchange. I feel Elder scroll is way too much for a board game, but I have been craving for a good campaign game that focus on replayability rather than a ridiculous ''run time''. This seems to be exactly what I've been looking for. A campaign game I can complete in one week-end at the cottage during the summer. I've backed it so far, but will keep a close eye on it to ensure it's worth my investment. Never played any CTG so that also add a bit of stress edit : thank you for talking me out of the mat and upgraded chip though, I was considering it for a moment xD
For some reason this one didn't click for me. I'm actually very happy about that! I've been able to back a ton less this year so far. I'm also looking at moving to a smaller place so... Gotta be more picky.
BTW CTG themselves said this is based on mechanism from TMB and Hoplo series 🤷🏻♂️ They even said that if and when TMB 2.0 comes along - it will use similar mechanics
One last thing - regarding your #1: whoever waited and now wants everything, will pay around 100$ more... Next time think about it when you tell people not to buy games
@@shaike82 also, literally had the pledge manager with the same price open until a couple weeks ago, the additional costs for an all in are things that they added on and cost everyone. Perhaps I'm not the one incapable of thought. Also literally played the game so I'm going to trust my opinions on feel and mechanics instead of yours. But it's great fun and I hope you enjoy it.
I bet Chris will break on this one. May be a year or so after it is released or in a future campaign, but the pull will be too much assuming they do deliver well in the quest variability.
Thanks for the video. New viewer. As someone sitting on the fence for this one your review made me pass on it. I had wanted it to be in the same line as journeys in middle earth but isn’t. I’m currently playing Skyrim the adventure game and loving it. I do not think the price is pushing me to add another elder scrolls game. Subscribed thanks!
I think we only recorded B-roll for it when we were demoing it, I did it when I was at Dice Tower West so it wasn't really the environment to record in.
Not backing. I love CTG and own Hoplo Vic, Cloudspire, and Burncycle. I love them all. But something about this isn't clicking with me, which is usually enough for me to pass. CTG's campaigns also never have exclusives, so I know I can always buy it later without missing anything. Your point about the rulebook was something I hadn't considered which is very valid. Lastly, boy do I not need another long campaign game on my shelf right now (ok, in 18+ months).
Too Many Bones, Cloudspire and Burncycle didn't have rulebooks either...? I can understand it being a reason not to back, but you own 2 games from the company that didn't have rulebooks for their campaigns.
You’re right, not 2.0. More like 1.5, and the new ideas will be improved for 2.0. Anyway I’m looking for five reasons for Unconscious minds. I messed up with 9€ in the PM and I’m not sure I want it, lol. … and it seems Battletech ain’t a board game.
Unconscious mind I don't have one on since it hadn't crossed that line before I covered it in the week of Crowdfunding Countdown when it was finishing up. That one would be harder for me, I think it looks like my type of game, but also Endless Winter at retail was like half the price, so you may save yourself even if you cast aside that 9 euro to the wind. That's a tough break though.
"Don't get Base Pledge " yeay, I had kinda feeling after watched itxd Yeah it is expensive, I mean really expensive. I have to add to this cost another 50$ taxes... with inflation around 20 it is really a big deal. But thanks to Stretch Play even I can do thatxd But I have to admit, that your second point give me a lot of to think. I have to admit, that I thought about this game as TMB2.0. And your video open my eyes and show me these differences. In some points better for me, but still important matter. Thank you for that. I was also wandering, why we do not have still rulebook, it is kinda unfair, like they want to hide something or something. Aaand it is alot of money. I have just back Batman escape from Asylum, case I love DC IP, but if it comes to Elder Scrolls not big deal for me. I will wait a little longer to see if I will find out something more about pure gameplay, thank you one more time:)
CTG regularly don't have rulebooks on their campaigns because they bring their games to crowdfunding fairly early. They're still in the design and playtesting process. Any rulebook wouldn't reflect the final product anyways. Beyond that with a licensed IP, that often means getting approvals of everything before it can be shared with backers. Going through the process of approvals for a beta rulebook (which may require a bunch of back and forth) is an time consuming and potentially costly effort. The last reason is that the lack of a rulebook isn't a factor for most people. They've brought in 2.5M without a rulebook and the campaign isn't even over. A lot of people watch the gameplay videos to get an idea of how a game plays.
@@VaultBoy13 I can not agree with you. Most of pople buy it because it is Cheap Theory Games and looks like TMB2.0. And IP of course. These are 3 major factors. They do not know how gameplay looks like, only some glimps nothing more. It is like we do not really know what we are going to buy, as this video can show:)
About the premium Health tokens versus the light tokens, are the stacks just a stable being the light weight ones compared to the premium? Or do the stack fall over more if the table is bumped, ect...
Here because its TES. Biggest issue for me is no minis option. Im new to tcg and get that chips are their gimmick but coming from KDM, Skyrim:TAG, Euthia, Ankh, and 40k, moving chips around feels so…flat. Yea i have plenty of char minis, but some of the unique monsters not so much. Also, imo, the gamplay bundle is CHEAP for KS/GF games. The allin is a waste of money for really meh extras (the 50$ health shit what even?? shouldve been minis) but the gameplay bundle is cheaper than many. Biggest sell is travelling more of tamriel with hopefully better gameplay than ESO pve (so easy its sleepytime) and im totally gonna homebrew a grand campaign spanning all provinces if at all possible
I’m still on the fence. I don’t have TMB so leaning towards pre-ordering that and by the time I’m done with that content (huge back log) this should be at retail. 🤔. That would also save me from subsidizing the shipping for our fine fellows with different bordering oceans. Love your series and the intricate, highly thematic outros. Here’s a free one I’d love to hear. This has been Room and Board and I don’t need no damn outro. (In a southern drawl of course).
You're still going to pay the same price, plus shipping, when it hits retail, and the way things have been going lately, the price will probably go up a bit by the time it hits retail, especially if lots of stretch goals make it in. But definitely get TMB in the meantime, it's a fantastic game. I got all of it all at once with the (at the time) $10 shipping and have been incredibly happy with that decision ever since.
@@KarlJSmith not necessarily. I’m looking at a site right now that has too many bones and both expansions for $112.50 and$75/2 with free shipping plus tax. So I’m looking at 262.47 + tax to my door.
@@stitchgrrr5973 That's a difficult one...I backed both of those (Unbreakable & Undertow) during the laat campaign and can't wait to see what TMB holds once it delivers! There's no way of telling how they compare (yet), I would look at both campaigns and go for whichever one looks and feels more interesting to you i.t.o. theme and characters.
This video should be burned and banned from the universe!!! How dare you sir?!
It is banned in your universe.
We're in the multi-verse, yo.
I smell a video where you and I debate why this is based on the Too Many Bones system....
Oh yeah. Also demoed. The Too Many Bones vibes are strong. I’ll agree that saying it’s 2.0 is hyperbolic but a large % of this design is rooted in TMB IMO.
Please never change. I really need someone who talks me out of my FOMO on a regular basis.
Another reason not to back this game is if you are coming to this for the IP and looking for a similar experience to other Elder Scrolls titles. Elder Scrolls has always been about open-world exploration, character role-playing and narrative-driven gameplay. Based on what I have seen for this game, it will not really be any of those things. CTG has a great reputation, and I’m sure they will make a great game system, but so far, it is looking more like an Elder Scrolls-skinned CTG procedurally-generated tactical game than something that would be recognized as a typical Elder Scrolls experience. What will make or break the game will be how tightly they incorporate the theme into their system, and right now I have serious doubts about what they have shown. For example, they have shown that in some regions, your NPC tokens will represent “cultists” while in others they might be “bandits”, but you may still be drawing the same Skeever enemy for combat no matter what they call it. No money to gain or spend (the shops give you random stuff for free), thin on-the-rails quest lines, no crafting, limited items and loot (though this grows modestly with stretch goals), the same boss every end game, etc. I don’t think it is worth paying the kind of premium they are demanding for the Elder Scrolls IP if what I’m getting doesn’t even remotely resemble the things that I love about the Elder Scrolls franchise.
Thank you for helping me pull myself out of the unproven money abyss! 🙏 Highly tempted, but too many questions about long-term variety plus the very high price point.
Look at this charismatic fellow in his stylish little office!
One of your best shouldn't backs, and this is an interesting case given the cost, reputation, IP, lack of info, lack of gameplay content, and quality of the updates/communication. My biggest wait and see is how fun the game actually is. It's clearly proficient, but the examples of combat shown have been very lackluster. Quality of narrative isn't bad but it seems like it's very on the sidelines. Most of the campaign has been about getting into character builds, but you raise a great point that the game isn't going to offer the same variety as carefully crafted characters like Oathsworn or I imagine Too Many Bones itself.
My main draw is wanting to try a CTG myself and nostalgia for Elder Scrolls itself. I have the Skyrim board game, and that scratches the itch of the original's wanderlust very well, but the pleasure of character building there is very progression-driven, not strategy-driven like this game appears to be. I like Skyrim's dice combat as well, and I think the two games can coexist okay.
I'm probably going to let my pledge lock in, but this is more on faith than I'd normally be comfortable with. Fingers crossed the coming updates will really settle things.
5.) price point - agreed, it’s a lot. Might be able to get a lower price though places like gamenerdz
4.) backing because of free shipping - good point since on their website it’s free shipping over $200 anyways.
3.) character variability issue - I don’t see this as a huge negative since it’s thematic and meant to be super loose and fluid. And with more and more content added, more and more skills come out creating interesting combinations. It’s like being able to create your own Gearloc every-time you play in a sense.
2.) if looking for TMB 2.0 - I do think that this system is an advance of too many bones in many ways. It sort of unlocks TMB from the restriction of pre-built characters and opens up the narrow restrictions of the map. It has the same 11-12 day system as well and the loot basically works the same way. The newest thing here that stands out is the stamina bar at the bottom and that is where this one is going to shine over TMB, and become a 2.0 version. I think the comparison is apt and spot on.
1.) No Rulebook - this isn’t an issue for this company, but I would be worried if it were a new one. CTG has shown way way more here than they did with Cloudspire and that one ended up amazing. I don’t expect this to be any less good from a rules angle and the demo that they did shows a lot of what is going on without a rulebook needed.
Did you feel connected to your character? Did you felt excited for each "level up"? Did you feel challengened within the tactical fights (core game mechanic)?
Sorry thought I responded to this. I wouldn't necessarily say I felt connected to my character, I didn't feel imperial more than argonian (the two demo choices) for example. I did enjoy levelling up because I would get to spend my XP on new dice and that was fun. I also wasn't at the stage where I was running out of room for dice, so could just buy and buy. I found the tactical fights to not be super challenging but the delves were enjoyable with the chance to spawn higher enemies than I felt comfortable to handle
I love deluxifying the games in my collection that see tons of play as it enhances the experience for me. I've spend an embarrassing amount of money on my Arkham Horror LCG collection including storage solutions and 3rd party components but I'm happy to do it because I love the game and it gets a ton of play.
For CTG, I feel like you get all of the deluxification up front without having inkling as to whether you'd like the game so the upfront cost and risk is always so immense in comparison to titles from other companies. As a result I keep bouncing off the idea of backing one of their projects. Perhaps one day, once I've tried one of their titles from a friend or at a con, I'll change mind. But for now it's a pass. Oddly enough 20 strong is more appealing to me.
You should not try any CTG game unless you want to spend a lot of money! Their games are sooooo good!
20 strong was such a lovely change from their usual, I hope that keeps getting supported
I would love to know what storage solution for Arkham is cause I'm trying to find one I really like.
Learned about ctg because of tmb. I really love that game and they are always ready to help with rules or anything if needed. Really great company. Also the community behind ctg is fantastic.
5) I don't care about the price point. Can afford it and I trust in ctg delivering a fantastic game with the best components I can imagine. I'm a sucker for these qualities.
4) yep, this is a nice carrot and "cheapens" the game. Not a reason to back, but thank you ctg.
3) Interesting view. The variety in creating a character is huge. A character will have starting stats. These will be different which makes it smarter to choose the one over the other. So indeed not much difference but it may be important to be the best magician or something else.
2) Thankfully no. I own enough tmb. A 2.0 would make the 1.0 outdated. I would cry if they make a 2.0 haha
1) There is no rulebook... true. But I never read those on campaigns anyway😂
I trust in gameplay vids, my own research, input from discord and my guts. Who wants to read a rulebook upfront? There are always so many changes after the campaign, so what are we reading anyway... lol
Thanks for this vid👍
Main reason I backed... Stretchpay, without that there is no way. It is basically $360 for me when converted and I cannot pay that upfront, over 10mnths though is a different story. I will not be surpirsed if it is $450 retail where I live... so I feel it is worth it. The shipping was also a massive thing.
The price point is very high. So that already scares me off. But being at that price point with no rule book makes me even less interested. I know this is going to retail, so I do not feel the draw to jump on right now. That will also give me a year+ to save up for the game after I read the rule book. Thanks for the great video!
Great video, as always. Very funny, entertaining, and educational. Living vicariously through you is always a joy.
Your reason #2 is the main reason why I *AM* backing it... :) As all in for TMB with the Trove Chest, this is the perfect reason for me to pick this because it is so different! :)
It's funny, I was initially excited a year ago when this was announced. Then I tampered my FOMO way down and actually was extremely skeptical heading into the start of this campaign. The very detailed and positive discussion of your experience, however, combined with your #2 actually has me interested again. As someone who has the Trove Chest and basically more content for TMB than he knows what to do with, I was not looking for "just anther TMB clone". If this really does play like it's own thing and feels distinct enough from that, that is a compelling reason to look again at this. That price point though...yikes. Then again, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...I don't really want to admit how much I put into the Unbreakable campaign. Very good video and keep up the great work!
Yeah, I was wondering why the explanation of why "it isn't another TMB" was on the list of reasons not to back it. Like you, and for most people talking on BGG, that's a reason they ARE backing it!
Yeah, all his reasons not to back are all reasons why I did back it! Except for #1 of course, but they've shown so much gameplay its pretty easy to tell how it will go and it looks FUN
I too totally got the feeling character variability wouldn’t be as high as it seems on the surface.
What ultimately put me into the 'backing' category is the stretch pay. I know, I'm still paying $230, it's still expensive. But I love the IP and I love all the games it's based on. I really want to own and play it. However if I were to drop the full price all at once after the campaign, just might not happen. I can afford $23 over the next 10 months.
Same. 0 interest loan plus free shipping to Japan is huge.
They know how to get us. Pay it off in ten months. And the game is not even projected to ship out until 18 months. No rush in paying up front.
@@willboy334 They sure do.
Tbh, loans/payment plans like this is actually a great deal but it does allow people to overspend. If you cant put up the money for the pledge upfront you really shouldnt pledge.
@@-Markus- I could for example pledge up front. But I would rather pay $23 a month. Keep that extra money a month helps a lot. But since you can't put buckets on NPC's heads and steal from them, I'm not getting this one. haha
reason number 2 was the biggest problem for me on this campaign, a lot of reviews i watched talked about how this is similar to too many bones, but focusing on that as much as some reviews do is a problem, especially to people like me who did not play tmb and so "oh you level up like too many bones" is just a way to exclude me from the review (now sure i can go watch a review or read about too many bones but lets be honest, most people wont)
Im not a deluxer guy at all but I would say if this is your first chip theory game the premium health chips are 100 percent worth it because you can also use them in too many bones.
The core box chips plastic chips honestly detracted from my experience. There is such an amazing weight to the premium chips and for something you are interacting with about every second of the game it's money well spent.
Sadly I think it's something they do intentionally. Putting the bad health chips in a box where everything else is premium they know people will pay up.
Thank you--well balanced and honest discussion to provide clarity and perspective on such a big purchase. FOMO and budget now under control. Thanks for restoring balance in the universe.
I just feel like there’s a huge lack of theme from what I’m seeing. Unfortunately I am going to not be backing us. I’m going to stick with the elder scrolls adventure board game the game has a ton of theme with over 800 cards
Wait, a character only lasts 3 sessions? Oh boy it's gloomhaven all over again. Just when you connect to a character it just disappears.
I'd love a source on this, and I can't find anything that states so, would kinda suck
34:07 Scarily, that sounds like me :( (I don’t make a TON of money, but I have a job - and I don’t have to pay rent, based on my current living situation. So instead of spending money on rent, I spend on board games).
But actually, Chris - I am starting to hear you. I have so many board games around here - and I am getting de-sensitized to all these campaigns; all the grind of looking through the pages; all the “should you back it?” videos, etc. - to the point where I really don’t need to back things anymore - because the marginal satisfaction I am feeling toward board games isn’t as high anymore - and I am thinking about other things (not even objects) besides board games.
Yeah, once the collection hits a certain point, it's really hard to feel the need to have something else come in to that collection. I think it's good to take a break and enjoy the things you have for sure.
Love the review, thanks. It’s been difficult to discern the hype on this one.
This one is tempting. Elder scrolls plus CTG is a potent combo
Of course! CTG is such a great company!
It really is
I used to think premium chips are meh, but playing a lot of TMB they are better as when you stack a few, the lighter ones are way more prone to tip over/spill. Not so much with the premium ones
I find the map variety to be lackluster, for this price I'd like to see more variety in terms of map shapes. The random nature of delve discovery helps, but you're gonna see a lot of the same as you keep playing. To be fair, I think quests and the delve deck add different strategies to the same tiles - which is nice
Interesting... That being said, I'm going ALL In on this one and cant be more excited. The campaign is looking better every day. Chip Theory Games are amazing.
Thank you for trying to save me from myself.
Man I'm so glad I found your channel. Where have you been my whole life! You convinced me to back this game all the way until your number 1 reason. Everything you were saying made me see how cool this looked but your last point really drove it home. I may still back it in a month or two but there are so many other great games coming out that idk if i'll even be able to; S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Gloomhaven 2.0/ Frosthaven are releasing soon. Oathsworn is still on my list to back before PM closes. I know there's a couple more eluding me atm. There are too many games! I can't get them all especially not all at once. Thank you for making these decisions easier for me... kind of. Either way you flippin rock and thanks for the great content keeping my FOMO somewhat in check.
Aw, thanks! I'm just glad to be able to be somewhat valuable :) Really appreciate you saying so. Honestly, I keep coming back to Elder Scrolls, especially when you see some of the other prices out there. I hope you have a blast with it!
I am so on the fence with this. I am not sold on the deluxified components since I always feel the chips, as good as they feel as a compinent per se, are a poor medium for representing characters compared to minis or even cards. The Artwork is just so small on them. Furthermore at this pricepoint you cannot but compare it to other preium narrative games like Oathsworn, Frosthaven or Isofarian Guard (using chips again...) and this just feels lackluster and flat in terms of narrative as well as gameplay.
That being said: The CTG track record is just too good to not consider backing this at all.
On #5: I think people forget that it includes shipping. I live in Switzerland and shipping (even from within the EU) is between 35 up to 55usd for a boardgame.
There's free shipping above 200 euro on european orders on the CTG store. So this one will have free shipping.
Seems like you have been looking through my Shelf of Shame based upon your comments about my unopened campaign games… breaking and entering is illegal sir!😂 seriously, you brought up some great points, for myself though, having had every game they have released and loved NEARLY all of the content released, it was an easy one for me. YMMV
You've failed with me this time, my friend.... Still planning on late pledge it! hahaha
Haha awesome hope you love it!
It's not really FOMO though as the game will be available fully on CTG store after the campaign?
It definitely shouldn't be, you're right. But I feel with any sort of collectibles there's always that sense of people feeling like they need to get in on the ground floor.
Regarding reason number 2, Chip Theory Games said in an interview:
"This is probably also a good place to mention that a lot of these concepts were already in the works for a potential Too Many Bones sequel. We would have made this game one way or the other, even if we hadn’t landed The Elder Scrolls license. That’s how much we believe in the system we’ve built here." - so yes, this is not TMB2, but it shares some DNA with their vision for a TMB sequel.
I think that exact interview is where a lot of the comparisons come from, but I was expecting for it to feel a LOT more like TMB and was surprised when it didn't. It feels reminiscent of Chip Theory, like all of their titles kind of feel distinctly "Chip Theory", but it personally doesn't give me more Too Many Bones over something like Burncycle (the only other one of theirs that I've currently played)
Very good #3 point. I did not see that way. Also did not know skills were resetted after 3 quests. Thanks for doing this video!
Its not that skills reset, its that one complete playthrough of the game lasts over three sessions/quests after which youve either won or lost.
For me this sounds perfect, 5-10 hours per playthrough suits me perfectly as a solo player. Just wanted to clarify that its not that characters are wiped in the middle of their adventure, the adventure itself is over at that point :)
Great balanced and well-reasoned video, Chris. I'm really glad you got the chance to demo this and get an inkling of how the game will play. Really appreciate that you highlighted the differences between TES and TMB, and I'm relieved that they are distinct enough to both have their own space in the CTG lineup. The exploration aspect and battle system has me more interested in this than TMB, but the combo of price without rulebook just makes me too uneasy to back at this point. Anyway, with the sheer number of backers, and it being tied to a popular IP, there will be plenty of secondhand copies from those who realize this game wasn't for them or their group. Despite me wanting to get a copy down the road cheaper 😁, I do hope this title brings more into the hobby.
I'm curious though what the price would be if the TES IP wasn't used. Maybe it could've been 10-20% cheaper, and even allowed the CTG to have a draft rulebook available during the campaign (no IP approval system to deal with)?
CTG often don't have their rulebooks available during the campaigns. Especially, with their bigger games - Too Many Bones, Burncycle, Cloudspire. They're still actively developing the game. Considering how unpolished any rulebook would be for the game, it'd likely be a detractor to have one on the campaign page.
The price would be cheaper without the TES IP. But, the IP has already brought in 5x the money that their new IPs typically get during crowdfunding. It wouldn't surprise me to see the campaign end around 3.5M which is pretty significant when their new IPs tend to bring in around 500K.
Hey, Chris! We have a rulebook for the game now. I'd love to see a shorter 2nd look on this, since I know you like TMB and you have some kind of addiction to reading rule books (from what I've seen in the CFs videos hahaha), this one have 100 pages. Cheers!
dont worry, i aint getting it. i was but decided to not get it. i already got enough board games + i know zombicide KS coming
Got a chance to play White Death as well, and the first scenario was pretty fun. Feels like Black Plague but a bit harder. At least from that first iteration. Honestly might be too hard as it is, but we'll see how it develops.
Yes, white death for me also!
Yeah FOMO isn't really a factor wrt CTG as there are no exclusives and if you really want it in the future you can buy from the store or second hand which is restricted price wise due to the CTG store.
CTG rarely come with a manual as the game is not complete and it's still in the design phase, that's how they have always done it and clearly state if your not happy with it wait for the final game and buy from their store if you don't want to shoulder a risk. As far as I can tell the IP holder is signing off everything so the game would probably need to be complete before any manual is released to the wild.
Main concern is the apparent lack of actual gameplay content. Those tiles look like they will quickly become repetitive and tiresome. The lack of Loot is a massive disappointment for an open world style RPG as it's their lifeblood normally. Character builds could be a bit to similar with only minor tweaks and nothing really unique to distinguish them from each other besides bigger/smaller numbers. Cool down system is a strong point from what I've seen.
In summary it looks a bit shallow for a CTG game in it's current form and I'm not sure if people who own their other games will respond if it's over simplified.
Price point seems comparable to their other base games when you factor in shipping which is subsidizing the expensive countries and the inflation of the recent 12-24 months. My take is CTG games are at the upper end of the market and if your looking at their games and considering buying them then you can afford it. Main thing wrt price is on the face of it this game may look like it's going to really need expansion content to flesh it out and that's where the real cost will lie IMO :P
I think whether you'll find it replayable is dependent upon how you enjoy board games. If you like exploring new things and then stop playing once you've seen it all, then this is likely poor bang for you buck. If you like emergent narrative or roleplaying, then this game has a lot of randomizers to generate that content. If you want crunchy gameplay that keeps you coming back, then it's like every other crowdfunded game - a crapshoot.
On the topic of items, I really hope they don't flood the game with a bunch of generic item cards to fulfill that request from backers. Open world RPGs may have a ton of items, but they're a large pool of generic shit that looks different. Other than appearance, the +1 Sword of Smiting isn't any different from the +1 Malicious Mace.
Should they do an expansion that adds an influx of items, then I hope it's an influx of dice. Crafting a bow that swaps out a standard bow dice for a custom one is interesting. It's not simply a stat-boost, it's now a decision. That's fun, cool, interesting and builds out the existing system without making making the existing system uninteresting.
I realize there are video gamers that love the hundreds (if not thousands) of items in open world RPGs. But, 99% of these items aren't interesting. The next upgrade is 20-30 minutes away. These forgettable things have already abstracted into the skill system. The other gear is likely meant to represent the more unique items in the world or consumables.
@@VaultBoy13 Yeah I'm not a lover of Diablo slot machine loot showers but they are popular because they massage the gambling gland. Hence the Video Game industries hard press on loot boxes etc as they know for many it's a irrational drive.
Personally I prefer loot to provide something my character could not normally do or be very specific for a class not just bigger numbers.
My thought process on the apparent lack of loot is there are a relatively large number of classes and thus the loot pool is arguably very small for so many. I like it when classes have some specific items tailored to them so concern is there isn't many and they are all pretty generic?
We don't know tough and it seems like the SGs have been adding content including some loot. There is to be a crafting expansion apparently so maybe this will expand this area.
I did cancel my pledge two times by now and now I’m ready to do it again 😅 Thank you.
Hi, I am from EU and just heard from this video that you can save on VAT from CTG website instead of backing now. Anyone has more details?
My Patron who lives in Hungary said that it's always been cheaper for him to buy at retail, because the VAT gets kind of factored in when he does. Not sure if it's that way for everyone, but he said he thought it was for most of the EU. I'd go to their web store and mock order something and look back at a previous campaign and see what the difference would be.
@@RoomandBoardReviews Thx for the details. I have ordered from their store in the past and usually it is similar (assuming you get free shipping). BUt will look again. Thx for the tip and in case you find out more, please let me know. Enjoy your videos! Keep them comming
Thanks for this video - even though I am a year late to the party 🤣. The pledge manager is still open so appreciate your well thought out . . .thoughts. When this crowd funded I was focusing on cheap party games after a few big/deluxe games, but the pendulum has swung. Looking at current price of big campaigns, feel like this a win because of the quality, even at $200. Everything costs way more here in the US then it did , Gas is $4 dollars a gallon, good bread $5. $200 for an heirloom game, I get it. But gas is $4, bread $5, am I gonna walk or starve, that's the only question for me 😁
This is the only game I’m buying this year. I’m moving and realized I have more games than I know what to do with anymore. I already have everything else CTG and I know they put out quality games(plus I backed this before I found out about moving).
funnily enough i am watching this after pulling the trigger yesterday after swearing to myself i wouldn't because i am not that intersted in the TES IP.. the thing that finally swung me was the new gameplay videos that are starting to emerge and the similarities to too many bones.. i love CTG but i haven't play too many bones outside of TTS because its just so inaccessible due to pricing (because I want everything, the base box will just not do, like i have with cloudspire, i am not playing all the content but i still bought it all lol).. so seeing that TES BOTSE will give me the TMB style fighting and that its a new IP they plan to expand, I can be there at the start and get all of the expansions and upgrades etc and at the end of its like i will have a £700 collection which no one wants to buy off me but at least I will have kept up with it xD
@@Denzarki haha I'll admit if you have to pull the trigger on one of their games this is a good choice. I'm still pretty excited about it as well (someone bought it for me as a gift) so I think it's gonna be a good one. Hope you like it :)
@RoomandBoardReviews josh from ctg on fb one time replied to me saying if i come down to their head office and help him pack reviewer copies he'll give me a free pledge, if i didn't live in England i totally would've taken him up on the offer 😂.. alas ive had to spend my own money on it.. the very next day, today, my partner says "can we pay for our holiday on your account and I'll pay you back".. "sure...." i said, with my eyes watering 😂
All CTG products are for sale in the next iteration so no fomo here. I love TES but not TESO, didn’t pledge.
Late pledge is still possible, so I'm still on the fence on this one. Saving VAT by buying it later (in Europe) is a good idea. However, do we have any idea how much more expensive it will get later on?
The Too Many Bones base game was under 100€ in the original Kickstarter, and it is now 150€ + shipping. I definitly can't afford the Elder Scrolls game when the price will be multiplied like this, it already nearly too much now (to even be able to afford it). But I AM really excited about this ...
(Also, backing only because of the IP and the company doesn't sound far of 😂)
I'm still debating if I should back the game, but I want to share a perspective from somebody in the ROTW section. I agree that the price is high, but the free shipping and ChiptheoryGames partnering with a local publisher to reduce importation taxes made it possible to import the game to Brazil, which is impossible to do with too many bones, for example. I'll compare The Elder Scrolls vs Zombicide White Death. If I'd buy all the playable content from both games, I'd pay $200 for ZWD and $230 for ED. The difference is I'll need to pay more $60 to ship ZWD. Besides that, I'll have to pay between 50%~70% of the total amount (game+shipping) as taxes. In the end, I'd pay around $400-$500 for all content in ZWD, while with the friendly shipping and reduced taxes, I'd end up paying around $260 for all playable content in ED.
hey, i don't have any game from CTG yet. I ordered and I'm waiting impatiently for the Polish edition of TMB ... And I lick every screen on which it is displayed ... When I saw BotSE, I got into it right away, especially since there is a Polish version and I can only guess that the quality of workmanship and pleasure from the game will consume me like no other game (except TMB 😉). This week, extra Ghillie chips came in and I'm enchanted with them 🤩😎😁
Beware CMON games. Campaigns with multitudes of poorly balanced exclusive expansions for bland games.
Beware campaigns like Robinson Crusoe where you have a decent base game sold with a hundred different unecessary add ons that will all most likely just sit on your shelf doing nothing.
However I make an exception for Chip Theory Games who have a talent for making these ultra creative, vibrant, random, chaotic kind of games that just feel glorious to play. FOMO should not be an issue when in these rare cases the end product is coming from such a uniquely talented team.
1. as of now June 6 2024 rulebook and tutorial book available. 2. The way Too Many Bones abstracted the setting and terrain is exactly why some of my friends didn't like it. Looking forward to see if this game is a better experience for them.
Considering games like Gloomhaven and Frosthaven are going for 250 - 275 USD, and yes those are crazy long campaigns, but the fact that BotSE is a campaign based game over 3 acts, the gameplay bundle comes with 2 expansions with new areas and the amount of content and replayability they are building in the game, it seems reasonably priced at 230 USD for the content.
I still can’t figure out why people back games without knowing anything about them, especially if the price point is really high. I like Chip Theory Games’ merchandise, but I won’t buy games I don’t think I will like, or won’t ever play, unless they are really cheap, say, less than $10. I didn’t buy Cloudspire or Hoplomachus because they didn’t appeal to me. I didn’t back TES:BotSE until I could watch a couple of play-throughs and judge whether or not it would be worth my money. I liked it, thought I and my gaming buddies would enjoy it, so I backed it. If I hadn’t come to that conclusion, it wouldn’t have happened.
Always wanted to play a ctg game, and the ES theme is a big thing as i love that theme. Still, the price point is such a big thing; it's free shipping, but then again, i will pay extra VAT as free shipping is just calculated in the price. The VAT is an extra increase of 40 euro's, kicking the game up to 266 euro's wow... still hoping to get this cheaper via a store.
Noooooooooo You didn't manage to hold me back! ;) Normally you succeed but this time the power of the fun was too strong.
Btw I hope they'll get Forteller to voice some of the text in the game ^_^ I want to hear their Khajiit voice!
Edit: I just saw like 100 comments on the official trailer where people are commending them on the voice acting and begging for voice actors to do a voice over for the game XD I guess I wasn't the only one thinking that.
Backing because it is CTG and I'm sure I will love it and I can afford it. But agree with your points, I would suggest anyone who is really on the fence to wait for the 2nd campaign with additional expansions, you might end up paying slightly more, but it is worth 5-10% more to be sure about it than make a bad $250 decision
Your aguments make me doubt backing the game (especially the customization). My main doubt is the 3 quest long campaign.
I don't mind putting money into a game when I know I will spend hours on it.
I'm scared that redoing 3 missions will only be fun 2 or 3 times max.
Did you have the feeling that quests are really different in your short experience ?
As you said in the video, for the EU Vat is a killer. Having to pay 19% extra in taxes will stop my FOMO any day (had that surprise with the TMB all in, so Ilearned my lesson :p )
I'm not backing. I have enough backlog to go through for the next couple of years and I can play on PC with mods to be immersed if I need ES fix. I'm saving money now for a new car.
Thank you, you talked me off the cliff of going for the late pledge. I was kind of looking for Too Many Bones 2.0 so I appreciate you being more genuine about the comparisons there than I've seen from basically everyone else.
Don't know what Elder's Scroll is; do t care.
Where were you for BattleTech you bastard!!!! My wallet hates you!!!
Other than price, your reasons sound.... like you are smitten! :-) At least because of shipping, we don't have to group pledge.
This game is gonna be sick. I'm not a chip theory fan boy. I think burncycle sucks. But TMB is a masterclass and this feels very similar with a world I love.
Went out for lunch, got some bad food, very unsatisfied. Bloating and pain and it think to myself I could have got premium health chips that last forever!
You absolutely won’t get this game for a similar price point since you’ll have to pay shipping when you order later.
You mentioned how expensive shipping can be in this video.
There are more people that should take this video to heart. I signed up day one, but ultimately canceled it. Too much money for what you get and I don’t want to pay more for the game since shipping is covered for everyone with free shipping, resulting in people the us having to pay more for shipping that they would normally pay.
I don't have any experience with chip theory... all their stuff seems overpriced for what it is...
*though this is the most interested I've been in one if these sky-rim games...
Number 0 : I'll went to Essen Spiel 2025 and just buy the damn thing before any of you get it muahahrhhrahahr ;)
As a fellow Canadian, I almost never back anything. The only game I have backed so far is trick shot (come on, I wouldn't be a true canadian without a good hockey game) but I have to admit I almost dropped out just cause of shipping and the currency exchange. I feel Elder scroll is way too much for a board game, but I have been craving for a good campaign game that focus on replayability rather than a ridiculous ''run time''. This seems to be exactly what I've been looking for. A campaign game I can complete in one week-end at the cottage during the summer. I've backed it so far, but will keep a close eye on it to ensure it's worth my investment. Never played any CTG so that also add a bit of stress
edit : thank you for talking me out of the mat and upgraded chip though, I was considering it for a moment xD
I did an insta back when this one launched and the kept thinking, do I really want this. Thanks for the video to save some bucks!
Reason 1: it still more fun to play Skyrim, ad it will not help you in the wait for the Elder Scroll IV
Had no idea you were a Canadian! What province are you in? I'm in Ontario myself.
For some reason this one didn't click for me. I'm actually very happy about that! I've been able to back a ton less this year so far. I'm also looking at moving to a smaller place so... Gotta be more picky.
Looking at this now - at this point in time, a moment before this is shipped, and at least now I am very happy with my All-In
BTW CTG themselves said this is based on mechanism from TMB and Hoplo series 🤷🏻♂️
They even said that if and when TMB 2.0 comes along - it will use similar mechanics
One last thing - regarding your #1: whoever waited and now wants everything, will pay around 100$ more...
Next time think about it when you tell people not to buy games
@@shaike82 nah I'd rather never think at all! Never have never will!
@@shaike82 also, literally had the pledge manager with the same price open until a couple weeks ago, the additional costs for an all in are things that they added on and cost everyone. Perhaps I'm not the one incapable of thought.
Also literally played the game so I'm going to trust my opinions on feel and mechanics instead of yours. But it's great fun and I hope you enjoy it.
@@RoomandBoardReviews do not take it personally... it's just a game
Another great vid. Wish we had these for so many games... also, I like this vid background! Keep it! 👍
From what I saw I really thought it was a cross between gloomhaven and TMB hahaha
It's not bad as for console we don't have very many mmos lots of arpgs but not very many mmos
"You don't need..." Oh hell yes I do! Don't try and stop me! 😱
well i must thank you, you successfully pull me out of this one, and really thank you
Point 3 is kind of crazy because the game is in development. There might be a million changes to all races and classes and even game mechanics.
I only like neoprene in my wellies, not on my table top!
Number 1 is a normal thing with CTG campaigns.
I love chip theory, but this one is a total wait and see. you are right.
Thanks for saving me hundreds of dollars
How much is CTG shipping usually. What is an average price of shipping bigger games found on gamefound
They have shipping flatrates depending on the region you live in on their homepage. For Europe, where I live, it is 15€.
I always assumed the $195 price included the "free" shipping. $150 with $45 shipping.
That’s how I see it. In that sense it’s a good price. When I order stuff for KDM the shipping is as expensive as the mini
I bet Chris will break on this one. May be a year or so after it is released or in a future campaign, but the pull will be too much assuming they do deliver well in the quest variability.
Haha luckily I have a friend who has already broken! Win win!
Thanks for the video. New viewer. As someone sitting on the fence for this one your review made me pass on it. I had wanted it to be in the same line as journeys in middle earth but isn’t. I’m currently playing Skyrim the adventure game and loving it. I do not think the price is pushing me to add another elder scrolls game. Subscribed thanks!
Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful :)
Cure my FOMO! (or don't...maybe don't).
Great vid. Very balanced. Lots to think about 😅
Is your playthrough out yet or will it be viewable? (As far as you know)
I think we only recorded B-roll for it when we were demoing it, I did it when I was at Dice Tower West so it wasn't really the environment to record in.
Not backing. I love CTG and own Hoplo Vic, Cloudspire, and Burncycle. I love them all. But something about this isn't clicking with me, which is usually enough for me to pass. CTG's campaigns also never have exclusives, so I know I can always buy it later without missing anything. Your point about the rulebook was something I hadn't considered which is very valid. Lastly, boy do I not need another long campaign game on my shelf right now (ok, in 18+ months).
Too Many Bones, Cloudspire and Burncycle didn't have rulebooks either...? I can understand it being a reason not to back, but you own 2 games from the company that didn't have rulebooks for their campaigns.
@@VaultBoy13 I didn't back those campaigns but purchased them after the fact.
You’re right, not 2.0. More like 1.5, and the new ideas will be improved for 2.0.
Anyway I’m looking for five reasons for Unconscious minds. I messed up with 9€ in the PM and I’m not sure I want it, lol.
… and it seems Battletech ain’t a board game.
Haha, yeah Battle tech got away from me, but I didn't worry about it since it feels very miniatures forward.
Unconscious mind I don't have one on since it hadn't crossed that line before I covered it in the week of Crowdfunding Countdown when it was finishing up. That one would be harder for me, I think it looks like my type of game, but also Endless Winter at retail was like half the price, so you may save yourself even if you cast aside that 9 euro to the wind. That's a tough break though.
"Don't get Base Pledge " yeay, I had kinda feeling after watched itxd Yeah it is expensive, I mean really expensive. I have to add to this cost another 50$ taxes... with inflation around 20 it is really a big deal. But thanks to Stretch Play even I can do thatxd
But I have to admit, that your second point give me a lot of to think. I have to admit, that I thought about this game as TMB2.0. And your video open my eyes and show me these differences. In some points better for me, but still important matter. Thank you for that. I was also wandering, why we do not have still rulebook, it is kinda unfair, like they want to hide something or something.
Aaand it is alot of money. I have just back Batman escape from Asylum, case I love DC IP, but if it comes to Elder Scrolls not big deal for me. I will wait a little longer to see if I will find out something more about pure gameplay, thank you one more time:)
CTG regularly don't have rulebooks on their campaigns because they bring their games to crowdfunding fairly early. They're still in the design and playtesting process. Any rulebook wouldn't reflect the final product anyways.
Beyond that with a licensed IP, that often means getting approvals of everything before it can be shared with backers. Going through the process of approvals for a beta rulebook (which may require a bunch of back and forth) is an time consuming and potentially costly effort.
The last reason is that the lack of a rulebook isn't a factor for most people. They've brought in 2.5M without a rulebook and the campaign isn't even over. A lot of people watch the gameplay videos to get an idea of how a game plays.
@@VaultBoy13 I can not agree with you. Most of pople buy it because it is Cheap Theory Games and looks like TMB2.0. And IP of course. These are 3 major factors. They do not know how gameplay looks like, only some glimps nothing more. It is like we do not really know what we are going to buy, as this video can show:)
About the premium Health tokens versus the light tokens, are the stacks just a stable being the light weight ones compared to the premium? Or do the stack fall over more if the table is bumped, ect...
The stay perfect. No problem. You dont need them
Here because its TES. Biggest issue for me is no minis option. Im new to tcg and get that chips are their gimmick but coming from KDM, Skyrim:TAG, Euthia, Ankh, and 40k, moving chips around feels so…flat. Yea i have plenty of char minis, but some of the unique monsters not so much.
Also, imo, the gamplay bundle is CHEAP for KS/GF games. The allin is a waste of money for really meh extras (the 50$ health shit what even?? shouldve been minis) but the gameplay bundle is cheaper than many.
Biggest sell is travelling more of tamriel with hopefully better gameplay than ESO pve (so easy its sleepytime) and im totally gonna homebrew a grand campaign spanning all provinces if at all possible
I’m still on the fence. I don’t have TMB so leaning towards pre-ordering that and by the time I’m done with that content (huge back log) this should be at retail. 🤔. That would also save me from subsidizing the shipping for our fine fellows with different bordering oceans. Love your series and the intricate, highly thematic outros. Here’s a free one I’d love to hear. This has been Room and Board and I don’t need no damn outro. (In a southern drawl of course).
You're still going to pay the same price, plus shipping, when it hits retail, and the way things have been going lately, the price will probably go up a bit by the time it hits retail, especially if lots of stretch goals make it in.
But definitely get TMB in the meantime, it's a fantastic game. I got all of it all at once with the (at the time) $10 shipping and have been incredibly happy with that decision ever since.
@@KarlJSmith not necessarily. I’m looking at a site right now that has too many bones and both expansions for $112.50 and$75/2 with free shipping plus tax. So I’m looking at 262.47 + tax to my door.
@@KarlJSmith if you did have to choose between undertow and unbreakable what would be your preference?
@@stitchgrrr5973 That's a difficult one...I backed both of those (Unbreakable & Undertow) during the laat campaign and can't wait to see what TMB holds once it delivers! There's no way of telling how they compare (yet), I would look at both campaigns and go for whichever one looks and feels more interesting to you i.t.o. theme and characters.
My main concern has been if it was to similar to Too Many Bones. So it is nice to see your opinion on that!