Why Top Tier Is Broken
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2022
- In War Thunder, top tier of the game's tank realistic battles mode is always the center of a lot of debate. Recently, that debate has escalated. Russian teams now sit at an average win rate of around 70 percent or so, making the game less fun for pretty much everyone who doesn't get paired with them. But why are things like this? Many will say that Russian main battle tanks aren't good, they simply have a lot of them. I don't entirely agree.
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The main issue with Top tier has been and still is Repair costs. Russian repair costs are half that of any other top tier tank.
Half to a quarter of the price, and that's without speaking of their other vehicles
@@OfficialNeonSky They aren’t outdated. But using that as a statistic to determine costs is absolutely idiotic. Russian MBTs aren’t cheap to repair. It’s that every other nations MBT is just so expensive.
The Wiesel cost more to repair than the T80BVM ._.
@@SilentButDudley that. Top tier sl rewards are absolutely pathetic, even for a victory, even with premium. The main reason I picked russia to main was that the repair costs seemed reasonable. The fact that other nations are so expensive is ridiculous.
@@CetoFreakingKaiba Keep coping, Repair costs for BVM + B3 + 80U is practically the same as repair cost of 2A6 + 2A5 + 2PL. I believe it's around the same as 3 top Abrams' as well.
You forgot that it’s impossible to win a match when there are 4+ ka-50s flying simultaneously. I can take them out one by one at the same time, but if there’s more of them you’re guaranteed to die, and your team will start getting killed not even right off, but inside the spawn.
Ka50/52/Mi28/Mi282nd: "Oh no, a SAM is on the way to me (presses button, deletes SAM)"
*/joins NATO in ITO90m repair cost*
Yes every game for me became heli hunt otherwise they would just wreck my team. It still pisses me off that all a 50/52 has to do to counter an ADATs is to spam atgms and proxy all the AA missiles.
Also often happen to get situations, in which my aa (FlaRakRad) dont reload fast enough to kill the massiv heli spam. In addition to that the FlaRaRak has a higher BR than the Tunguska and costs even more. Balance
@@212thfives8 exactly, all the people saying the flarakrad is fine always bring up how fast the missile is and how good it is at taking out aircraft because of it, none of that even matters if your 2 missiles get intercepted by 10 vikhrs before they can even get near the heli
Yesterday I was assisting my teammate and on my left there was huge open desert I didn't notice at first but I was paying attention to the mi28 that killed me beforehand all I did was look a bit more left and I see a ka50 hovering in the air and the flame of a 6ft long vikhr agm flying towards me 2 seconds later I was dead
Yeah Top Tier with all the fancy MBTs and fighterjets and choppers, it is pretty unbalanced and considering that several tanks between 7.0 and 8.3 aren't top of the line MBTs or IFVs (one example: Superheavies) makes the descrepency even larger.
Stop insulting the snail you’ll go missi-
there should be a point in which cold war era stuff dos not meet late ww2, I think 7.0 would be alright except for some nations that don't get 6.7 vics.
@@user-go1sl6rd7u then top ww2 tanks would clap all the other and all early cold war era tanks would be shit. That would be even more inbalanced than it is now
@@user-go1sl6rd7u late ww2 stuff like soviet heavies are fucking stupidly tanky, even vs heatfs, stop thinking you can just W out of everything, top tier russians is where you can do that agian.
I'm 9.0 and going against t72s and Abrams this shit sucks
Also what doesnt help: The absolute worst map design in human history
Most of the maps work fantastic or medicore with vehicles between 1.0-6.7 but once you start to get rounds that go 1600m/s and horsepower to weight ratios at modern mbt levels the maps dont work as well anymore
I feel like there are only 2 map types for ground battles. Close quarter brawl maps or long range spawn sniping maps.
they should really just use the long distance versions of the maps for top tier
@@user-go1sl6rd7u I agree!
@@user-go1sl6rd7u Long distance versions : Dies out of spawn cuz laser rangefinder uhuh...
The limited gun depression on Russian tanks isn't nearly as much of a weakness as one would expect either since Gaijin has done a lovely job eliminating slopes of less than eleven degrees and more than 3 or 4. A rather specific bracket, if I say so myself.
I just reached top tier after 4 y in 4 nations, so i grind them all to fullest, rn i do US, and is insane, i am fighting with basically lego tanks my Heatfs, 20k for a f mod, btw, ofc i run prem account, for 3 y now...
well, that's free to play enforcer to buy some stuff and have nothing to tech tree
Are you phlyday
4 years? Holy shit. There goes my hopes of going from tier I to tear VII in a couple months
@@noonelikespokimane8924 WT is a long grind, make sure to set small goals to vehicles that you really want to play and have fun in them, don’t focus on the grind, goof around and have fun despite everyone and everything saying you can’t have fun in WT
@@noonelikespokimane8924 he also meant he got to rank 7 in 4 different trees in 4 years, so around a year for each, sounds about right, if you play for around an hour a day you will be able to achieve a lot
Gaijin: "There is no such thing as Russian bias."
Also Gaijin: *Keeps adding loads of top tier Russian vehicles.*
But everything other than T-80 variants are garbage. And the tree to T-80 after IS-2 is a pain. And the T-72 tree is just a pain with no purpose, while Us a German trees have good setup for every rank.
@@dswngz lmao what? T-72 tree is ful of good vehicles, and if you're incapable of using them - that's your problem.
@@dswngz Give me the good setup for US 7.0, I don’t think one exists. American tanks at 7.0 underperform against early leopard one and the constant Russian speedboat bombardments
@@dudka_i like what? Name anything good between T-54 and T-72B3.
@@dudka_i no thermals, slow turret traverse, almost nonexistent reverse, low mobility in general. NATO tanks are way better with all of these.
As someone whose main tech tree is Italy, I feel the top-tier imbalance more than most. We currently have one of the worst, if not THE worst top-tier MBT in the game. Like the F-104S in the air tree, they're not even top-tier, they just get up-tiered into it almost every game. We have two MBTs, one light vehicle, and arguably two AAs in the form of the OTOMATIC and the SIDAM 25 with missiles. Then we have a Dardo you can easily up-tier to 10.7, and mediocre CAS options in the form of the F-104S with dumb bombs or the A129CBT with Hellfires. We are so behind in terms of 11.3 fighting capability that I don't think Italy will ever be a popular nation again.
I feel ya man as a fellow Italy main its pretty hopeless
I think they could drop Italy's repair costs to literally zero and it still wouldn't be a popular nation to play.
@@serch3ster No money, no reason for gaijin to do anything slightly positive to the game
Italy low tier is enough to make most people quit.
@@g.williams2047 I disagree, low-tier is where I had the most fun with Italy. 1.3 and 2.3 are immensely enjoyable lineups, and now 3.7 too.
Russian tank armor: 90%
Allied tank weak spots: 90%
real nice logic gaijin
I mean, there's some Russian favoritism happening right now, but where the fuck did you get those numbers?
@@ricardohumildebrabo well from my armor pen test testing, the Turms (not even top tier) can easily pen the m1a2 from the the front, meanwhile the m1a2 has to aim for small weak spots on t80u for example.
T-80BVM head cut off gameplay it. If ur fast enough around corners and such ur technically almost impenetrable if u know how to finesse ur way.
1 round to any point of russin tank: crew has died. Russin tanks got more armor but much less survivability.
@@dswngz most tanks die or are crippled in 1 hit, yeah if you pen a Russian tank you’re likely to kill it but it’s easier said then done from the front if both of you see each other at the same time. Meanwhile Russian tanks don’t have to be as picky with their shot placement which usually leads to a faster shot time and win
I think a good start to rebalance some stuff would be to stop artificially nerfing some tanks. The Leclerc does not even have the French motorisation. In war thunder, only the Diesel engine is counted, but in reality there’s also a secondary turbine that offers extra power.
Also, they keep adding new stuff to even already existing USSR tanks, like APFSDS, while forgetting that the Leclerc S2 and XXI could be fitted with an armor kit and a much better APFSDS in the form of the OFL 120 F1B or OFL 120 F2.
lmao leclerc is literally one of the best tanks in the game due to its trolly armor
@@nikolaperic6307 it might be extremely good compared to other minor nations, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the BVM, 2A6 and M1A2
@@vizender I'd say it's better than the M1A2 and especially the BVM. On 1v1s it destroys them due to better reload, faster rounds and how little spall occurs in Leclercs for some reason compared to all other top tier tanks. If you're calling bs, the only Leclerc I haven't spaded is the last one. I don't even have it yet because they're all just so damn expensive to repair and it offers nothing new.
@@bickboose9364 I’ve spaded all Leclercs as well as my main nation.
The Leclerc rn is no way near as good as both of them. Indeed the Leclerc does not spallas much as the BVM, but the M1A2 is in the same situation. However the M1 has 4 crew members.
In terms of reload rate, the Leclerc is always better than a Russian, but not better than a M1 or 2A6 with ace crew.
In terms of protection from the front, the Leclerc is pretty much 70% green when you shot at it, while if a leclerc wants to kill a BVM, it’s at most 10% of the area that is green, which makes mid to long range engagements extremely favorable to the BVM. The situation, while not as bad, is still similar with the M1A2.
Well yes I agree with the fact that the gun breach does absorb quite a lot of shots, but with the current penetration of the BVM, M1A2 and 2A6, even it isn’t really enough to protect the crew behind.
Where the tank shines in reality is with its mobility. But to bad, in game even the M1A2 accelerate faster, and the BVM has better top speed than the Leclerc, which, according to official numbers and video footage of the 3 countries, simply isn’t true, because they modeled the engine of the Leclerc wrong.
@@vizender Yeah, Gaijin more or less screwed all non-Russian tanks. Still, when I take out the Leclercs I do much better than in any Abrams, and although BVMs pretty much win every round it doesn't make them as good as the Leclerc. I always crap my pants if I see one while in a BVM, because that UFP bounces alot and even if I shoot the ammo straight through the weakspot in front of the commander the damn things just refuse to die. Literally the only reason I don't play the Leclercs more often is because of the ridiculous repair price.
Most easiest way to explain why the game is broken can be said in one word- Gaijin.
i somewhat amazed of the fact that repair costs of some nato tanks almost quadruple of russian mbts.
The T80BVM has better gun handling than all M1 series tanks, at 40*/s for both horizontal and vertical, on top of having better optics, a good round, and much better armor. The absolutely awful side turret armor of the M1 tanks makes them extremely easy to ammo rack hitting even slightly off angle.
@@tinture2822 Don't forget about the Leclerc lol. Despite being probably the fast MBT in real life with superb gun handling and round, it's the worst ingame with only the speed barely matching the BVM in top speed.
In real life the Leclerc can accelerate 30-35% faster than the T-80bvm
@@Jake-dh9qk Not to mention the terrible neutral steering that's worse than a stock STRV 122 or Challenger, but also the new SXXI with "improved turret armor" that wasn't changed at all beyond a small spot on the optics. It can get frontally ammo racked through the turret by every single top tier round now (3BM60, DM43/53 and M829A2), while still not getting its OFL 120 F2 round to compete.
@@Northern00 Oh damn don't even get me started on the traverse speed. I have both the strv122 and leclerc and that shit was beyond disbelief. I did a test, the strv122/leopard can turn hull in about 11 seconds while the Leclerc takes full 18 seconds fully spaded on the same level of ground.
Not only does it get ammo racked through turret, it also gets 3 crews killed in one hit occasionally if hit in the hull, and that's not even counting the 80% chance of fuel tank explosions too.
The Leclercs are practically your light-tank "hard hitter" without the hard hitting aspect and the speed because almost every other MBT is as fast as you.
@@Northern00 yes straight up, the French need their top tier round, and so do the Italians, the US's A2 is severely under performing as well, the documents I've read from the Gulf War, the A2 round should be penning 850+
For me, the biggest annoyance are the Russian helis (vickors specifically). They can completely prevent spaas from being able to shoot them down if the pilot is paying any attention, forcing the opposing team to get into jets to shoot them down, which takes significant time and a lot of sp, and with the high repair cost of many jets, the player will stay in it and try to support rather than get back in a vehicle (if they have any left as most nato nations only have 2 good spawns).
That's utter bollocks, even with the missile warning it is extremely hard to see missiles coming towards you and in the ADATs case quite literally impossible as it doesn't produce smoke. Not to mention the fact that even if it does see your missile then you can easily swerve your missile around and kill the Heli as SPAA missiles are twice as fast.
Lmao you are speaking utter shit, you cant spawn in off the start of a game with vikhirs so what do you do then? Also deleting ALL of your ordanance to evade 2 missiles is a pretty bad tradoff as you have to go and land again.
TheThreeRocks no you can’t, and I never said you could, but it’s much lower sp than an aircraft with ordinance and you only need a couple missiles to airburst the spaa missiles and kill it since it doesn’t airburst the vickors
TheDopeRope you don’t need to see the missile, just the soaa that launched it. They are 95% of the time in their spawn so the are easy to spot and you can use your rwr to figure out the direction
@@zacharyhoman3597 then what? You fire rocket pods in the direction of it hoping it explodes?
You forgot the Mig-27 spam where they fly above the enemy spawn, camp around there and you can't even see them in air or radar but they can spot you and kill you with guided bombs/ATGMs while you're blind of their location. Even if you try to counteract them with a jet - there's always a Tunguska waiting to kill you if you try to get close to combat zone.
To be honest, other nations than Russia have better air to ground platforms. America in particular has stupidly powerful air to ground capabilities. Tunguska is still way too powerful to be compared to other SPAA's
The rng factor on the additonal side ERA protection of the T72B3 and T80BVM is abusolutely busted. Several times I have my M900 hitting them at 90 degree but do zero damage.
Yeah the ERA is ridiculously broken atm. It completely negates TOW2B's and has just enough KE protection to stop top tier APFSDS from penning the turret, go figure. I've literally had the HSTVL APFSDS eaten by the side ERA of the T80. It's out of this world how broken it is atm.
this right here, every god damn time aye
Its randomized! I still could Pen additional ERA on the BVM with 30° DM33 round
I think you missed an opportunity to mention the fact that Gaijin essentially encourages players to play Russia top tier because of its low repair cost.
I've been playing for a long time and would like to say I'm average - I have US top tier, Russia Top Tier and UK. And reason I revert to playing as Russia all the time, is the cheap repair cost.
I constantly feel punished by losing SL playing any other faction except for Russia. Where I can have 1 or 2 bad matches and not go bankrupt.
i started ussr for the low rep cost, and oh boy im glad that i no longer only play the americans
I have top tier lineups for 4 nations and the only one I ever play is Russia for that same reason. Nobody should have to pay 12-15k because their MBT got blown up by a helicopter they can't even shoot at
@@GodWentAFK Yeah and jet-launched guided bombs/missiles are making it even worse. I'll be in an SPAA with nothing on radar and then I'll get killed by a jet that was flying 12000 meters up. They're literally unkillable.
I see alot of people complaining about russias low repair cost at top tier (which is a valid complaint), yet i see no one acknowledging why they have such a low repair cost in the first place, if you get a reply at all 90% of the time people just say something along the lines of "hurr durr russian bias hurr durr gib sep v4 with m829a4 would be totally balanced" which when you look back isint the case at all. It can all be traced back to two specific things, first is leo 2a6's introduction to the game causing a surge up german and US trees cause it was a guaranteed win, and two the old match maker which restricted what nations could play with each other. These two factors led to a top tier meta where russia and china were so absolutely stomped that tanks repair costs changed wildly (t-80U went from 7k repair cost to what it has now, and m1a2 went to 10k) and for a time (until new shell additions) russia didnt have a tank over 10.3. Is also a key time to point out gaijin change vehicle repair cost based on the SL earning power of the vehicle in question.
@@TheIrishBread Dude, we all play Russia at top tier. We all know that their tanks perform incredibly well and yet still have an absurdly low repair cost compared to other nations like Germany, the US, the UK, France, and Sweden.
It really is just Russian bias. There's no legitimate reason why they should have a repair cost so low when they're so good.
"some American tanks still got gen1 thermals". Correction there Spook, All Abrams tanks have only gen1. Say what u want but looking thru soup is neither effective nor fun. Bradley and Striker got gen2 and then everything above that (9.7) is gen1. In a meta where acquisition to shot time is super low, having potential bad acquisition is dropping US win rates itself by a percent point or two.
And dont forget the 2a5/6
@@reselutfu7361 You know, I play 2A5, 2A6 and 2PL quite a lot instead of playing US, at least commander sights on thsoe are gen2.
You mean all Abrams do only have Gen 2 thermals irl or just in game
@@mswinds IIRC the first gen 2 thermals on the Abrams is the M1A2 sepv1
Hate to sound like THAT guy but I refuse to believe the Russians have had the same clarity if not better thermals than us.
That's just a fucking gaijinism.
It isn't some secret that the west, namely America, has typically enjoyed better ergonomics in its equipment. From thermals to fucking actually being able to issue proper socks to troops.
You're gonna tell me a country with a burnt down ass carrier, just recently ditched linen wraps for soldiers and now slowly adopting western equipment/lookalikes into its ranks has had America beat in tank ergonomics?
Yeah aight. Alright, you're gonna have a hell of a hard time convincing me and I was on M1a1 FEPs. Curious how those nor AIMs are in yet.
You are missing two points in this why Russia is also overperforming. All top tier NATO tanks are underperforming in various ways, from nerfs, legacy choices carrying over, and inaccuracies Gajin acknowledges and doesn't intend to change b/c lack of published info. The primary opponent of the Russians the M1 is particularly plagued by this. Secondarily, the NATO players are conditioned to be overly cautious of shot placement on the Russian MBTs. This give the reaction time advantage to the Russians and makes NATO players less confident fighting Russian MBTs. This comes from players being espoused to these tanks using HEAT then 105 APFSDS both rounds quite literally made to be defeated by the Russian MBTs. This behavior is carried over to the 120s from the stock HEAT experience at top tier. This further reinforced by the number of Russian MBTs with ERA that makes the window in Russian armor even smaller, and can completely negate even 120 HEAT from the side at best making HEAT inconsistent. The moving turret bug "especially at top tier" and ghost shells further compounds this and erodes confidence. The lack of confidence is a self fulfilling prophecy and needs to be trained out of. Plus a un-honorable mention to overpressure weirdness and strange post pentation effects and spalling at their peak in top tier.
its also relitively easy to defeat nato mbts with heat compared to russia, which is another bonus for russia
Yeah, I hate the fact that my M1 isn’t what it made out to be, and the fact that I have to constantly endure the false lack of performance bullshit against the Russian tanks.
It’s called “State Of The Art Patriotism” by Gaijin. They wanna boast how good their fcking tanks are by nerfing NATO down to the ground till it’s a viable 1.0 tank.
Overly cautious of shot placement? Lack of confidence?
No disrespect, but you can't just assume this is the collective mindset and skill issue of allied players.
Reaction time, shot placement indoctrination etc etc (at least in my opinion) is a complete 'non-issue' / or at least, limited by the skill of each individual player. All players are dealt the same hand in terms of bugs and core issues. To use your example, hit registry and inconsistent spalling - both mechanics of the game not a single player can exercise control over.
The more involved, 'better players' will always learn weakspots regardless of what they're fighting in, or against, regardless of the tools at their disposal - the more casual, perhaps not. Evidently not an objective matter.
But by shoehorning allied players as a whole, you misrepresent many many players via an unsubstantiated opinion, that imo is largely baseless. Sorry.
Do I think Russia owns TT meta right now? Sure, though not due to what you alluded to, as my reply should very clearly demonstrate.
@@mrloominati3097 I think this kind of argument just packs a sort of elitist mindset. Well, experience might differ from person to person but from what I’ve seen, Russian ERAs does stop a lot of rush shots or misplaced shots that other MBTs wouldn’t have, and that is an unfair advantage in the first place.
Speaking of true fairness, if someone has to put in extra efforts in order to achieve the same result as the other, isn’t it the very fair definition of unfair? Why do NATOs have to aim carelessly at the driver port, breach, turret ring, and lower frontal while RU can just aim at a general location below your turret, or even sometimes, just anywhere at the front of your tank (since Russians to have extremely potent shells as well?)?
The phenomenon itself is unfair, doesn’t matter if the NATO players are ACTUALLY WEAKER than their RU counterparts, which is likely not true anyways. Whether a phenomenon or a mechanism is unfair should be judged independently, the fact that some NATO players do struggle to overcome this disadvantage should not be used as a perspective to undermine this argument.
Man, we all know that the best MBT tank in history is the Ho-Ro tank destroyer 😂
True it's like a small slow nuke
@@gamepusher1229 it's enough to kill anything
@@Geniusinventor very true
@@gamepusher1229 agreed
Making minor nations stronger would help a little. Like making the leclercs perform closer to how it perform in real life and giving Sweden their real rounds and not have their MBTs cost 5 Russian MBTs to repair.
I think giving Sweden the m95 makes more sense than ever since the round was nerfed anyways. The current round should become the stock round (even though it was never used) and m95 can be researchable.
Also idk why the Swedish tanks cost so much to repair. Their armor is a bit better than the German leo but the weak spots are the same and the armor that is good on the strv isn't exactly bad on the leo
@@arthurkal5892 It's because (like france) the only players who play Sweden are experienced and place high on their teams, making lots of SL while theyre at it. So gaijin sees this biased stats of experienced players doing well against inexperienced players (i..e, france and sweden vs. America/germ/rus) and nerfs swedens vehicles as a result.
Its never based on vehicles, only the stats of win/loss kill/death and SL/RP made per match, which is dogshit.
Don’t get me started on the poor UK tanks it’s actually quite sad the new chally is the same but more armour that only works against HEAT and no new round PLEASE I know the challys rifled gun is a bit odd in real life but it’s not completely shite
@@arthurkal5892 Not to mention the fact that as more and more nations gets access to high pen rounds (600mm pen is now considered average) the armour on the strv 122 gets more and more obselente.
Currently it just feels like a slower leopard 2a5 with a much worse round
@@panzerkampfwagenviiimaus2187 yeah, 480mm pen doesn't feel great on the type 90, but atleast it has a quick reload. But the strv 122? Basically the same round but slower reload. Yikes
NATO tanks were meta for two patches after the 2a6 was released and they got flagged as op and got hit with increased repair costs, armor nerfs and the 2PL. Meanwhile russia has been dominating ground and air RB for almost a year and they’re getting even more vehicles every patch
I love this comment Nato as in any nations besides russia. Sorry kid. But russia still had a higher win rate then say usa. Italy. France..... So nato overall was suffering. While russia was cheky breky time with extreme bias and only germany to compete with them. Just based off win rate. The best solution is to remove the russian tech tree until. Br based off production/retrofit year.
Yes pressing w and bouncing shots because frontal weak spots are much smaller than other nations' tanks is highly skillful.
I see the problem with russia at their air tech tree. They have many jets and many helicopters which is enough. But gaijin is still bringing out new planes and helis for them. Germany for example have only 2 or 3 top tier jets. I would enjoy a mode only with tanks. Then i think russia would suffer.
Russia has the best Heli tree out of all of them. It starts with the Mi4A which is a bad platform, but it has an OK armament. But the second Heli the mi24A is already a really capable Heli. The third Heli (The Mi24V) can even perform in Heli EC as it gets AA missiles.
Compare that to the German tree, which only gets 4-6 ATGMs up until you hit an end Vehicle (the Mi24 or the Tiger). Most other Trees suck at Heli 1 and 2 and are moderatley OK at Heli 3. You get capable Helis that can perform in Heli EC when you hit like the second top Heli in most trees unless you are in the German tree.
Honestly Russia has "OKish" planes before jets and during early jets (with some exceptions) because early tiers are dominated by P40s, BF109s and Spitfires, this could lead to 2 things: 1-American pilots dont get good until later due to how strong their early planes are. 2-Gaijin has a weird way of balancing nations, where they look at the whole tree to consider if a nation is strong or not.
Meanwhile italy without top tier jets
Tanks only would be the best thing content wise since a long time
but the whole point of this game is that its combining tanks and aircraft and multiple spawns with lineups. what sets this game back is the outdated gameplay… yeah combined tanks and planes but its still the same gamemode
You forgot there is no equivalent for vikhrs in other helicopters, and the ATGMs' mobility on helicopters are incredibly agile.
Also, many people do forget that US also has an incredible lineup on 11.0; but I've only seen few actually using a full-fitted lineup.
The M1A2 entered service in the early 90's. The T-80BVM entered service in 2019. The T-72B3 entered service in 2016. The T-90A (it sucks, I know) entered service in 2006. Gaijin should at least give the US the M1A2 SEP v1 from 1999.
Also, if Russia gets the 3BM60 round from 2002, the US should get the M829A3 round from 2003.
The year of introduction has nothing to do with capability of said vehicle, but I agree that other nations should have more than 1 "reserve" tank, and more capable CAS. Plus a point that Spook missed is the repair cost, russian MBTs cost on average half of the western counterparts, leading to more players respawning in the russian side.
It makes some sense. I do also get Gaijins reasoning cause historically, the end of the cold war and the associated financial problems in Russia put a ten year freeze on AFV development.
Then there's debate over how much polish can be applied to an old platform.
France is still rocking a 1994 shell as well, when they have much better 1996 DU OFL 120 F2 but apparently no they can’t have it
@@vizender they could have given the F2 to the Leclerc XXI but instead they made an almost copy paste of the S2 and not much more, they could have added the Azur pack for example as a modification, but no, even though a lot of tanks like the new challenger 2 and a lot of russian tanks have side protection in the form of ERA or similar reactive explosives
Spot on one big prob in this game. Not only top tier, Ww2 tenks facing 70s or even 90s tanks. Pt-76-56
And same whit top tier.
Why doesnt blowout panels in leo2 work 9 out 10times and ends up blowing up? But ruskie active armor works like a charm?
I never found myself struggling against Russian MBT's, except maybe with the TURMS in 9.3 vehicles on occasion. In my 2A6 most of my losses are just because ka-50s. Even with the FlaRakRad you cant kill them because they'll just launch a missile at you which detonates your AA missile, but then doesnt detonate their ATGM, so that same missile that detonated your AA missile also kills you. Take away Ka-50s and ka-50s from Russian and their winrate would plummet towards an average of 50% i bet.
I know the pain bro... even the FlakRads mobility cant help esp on desert or snowy maps... I cant even get to a position when a heli pops up and rocketspams the spawn
They finally fixed the issue with missles triggering proxy fuses. Your aa should be a lot better at fighting them now
@@lilhombrae3532 it still goes off most of the time (the AA missile) and the vikers will still kill you, they only fixed the thing in heli ec when ka50 players would launch multiple rockets to stop anything that wasn't a vikers in heli ec, so any AA missile or atgm you launched at them would get nullified except for the vikers
@@bololollek9245 T-80BVM's relict ERA can protect against the most powerful shell in the game
Technically it's DM63 but that's only found on 105mm gun
But since DM53 is very similar and is on long 120mm gun it's better...
But... meh
Swing it around their missile, it works lol
When they released the type 10 a lot of the veteran players did flock over to Japan and type 74 Gs increased too for a moment
And I witnessed a Player playing Germany say the Type 10 was op
@@snazzydazzy he's a german main so I'd disregard his opinion
@@snazzydazzy pretty fnuuy ngl
@@darktemplardelta268 stereotypes go vrrr
those premium werent even that great.
Once the T-80BVM got added
I was shocked and surprised that they added it
Didnt think they would pull out another MBT after the T-72 Turms
And that Pushed even further into people buying such Premium.
Relatively small weak spots seems like an understatement, it’s three spots that are like minuscule vs everything below your turret face for almost every other nation. Not to mention the huge list of very simple changes that would really balance out things, like the Abrams not being able to lay its gun flat over the rear or the f4es not getting the three GAU-8s it’s supposed to be able to carry. Those are both things that are so simple that all the verification required is a google image search and they just refuse to change it, also the Abrams turret ring is like three times the size it should be. Theres a lot of little things that would go a long way to the community. I’m sure there are lots of other things for other nations, I’ve heard the type 10s hull traverse is comically bad. Unfortunately I only have US top tier so I can’t really speak to those but I’m sure there’s plenty of problems.
As sad as it is.
Russian Developer = Make Russia look the best.
If those tanks are smaller compared to their western counterparts wouldnt make sense to be ingame too smaller thus making the weakspots smaller? I agree with spook regarding the repair costs etc but people go too far sometimes
@@kugo6085 the problem is not that the weakspots itself are smaller, the problem is that when you shoot a Russian Mbt you have to hit 2 specific spots while the NATO tanks you can just shoot somewhere below the turret and it will be fine.
Isn’t that design doctrine , Russian MBT trades a lot of survivability, size and weight for effective use of armor , as both turret and hull are all equally protected.
On the other hand western MBT trades effective use of armor weight for survival ability and crew comfort. If you can see, almost all NATO MBT have trash hull but superb turret cheeks.
Technically, you won’t get one shorted a lot in western mbt, but it usually cripples you to combat ineffective, so it’s a mix bag
@@lynx3873 yes that s right to some degree considering most of NATO tanks have worse LFP or equal to the Russian ones, but overall i think all MBT some advantages and disadvantages not that i am saying that USSR is balanced, also the ones in the USSR tree are nowhere the Best in the game, i think the STRV 122 is currently the best in the game regarding armor and firepower(might be wrong), but yeah seeing lots of wehraboos crying everywhere when their nation isnt the best at all BR s is kinda funny
When I first got into higher tier tanks all I wanted was the T-72B, 9.7, and that was all but ended practically grinding out the whole tech tree
9.7 is a lot better than top love the t72 b
Should I get the 72 or the 80?
@@norvinosorio22 80's are meta vehicles, 72's are lineup support.
@@norvinosorio22 72's are cheaper and not the star of the tech tree, the 80's are worth it in the long run, both still good
Top Tier or "Russia either completely dominate or 1 death leavers" simulator, no exception despite them having loads of tanks
by loads of tanks do you mean 1 Turms lol
The one death leaving is the most common for 9.7 and the few turms players that put a KA50 in their lineup amd suck ass
The one death leaving is a *Certified TURMS-T Player Moment* . This morning I played a match on 10.0 as Sweden, and I begun the match by typing "I sure hope our TURMS players won't leave after one death." in Team chat, and a guy replied "Sorry, but I hate playing with my BT-5" and left after getting an assist and dying with his TURMS.
@@balazsfonnyadt1903 Like atleast have a bmp 2 or something lol
A few things missed here and there;
1) Armour of Russian MBTs is massively overbuffed beyond anything realistic. For example, a T-90A; per all the available documents the armour should be worth anywhere from 500mm RHAe to 550mm RHae, nothing wrong so far, aye? Well, no, Gaijin ignored the part where this protection is provided at the constructional angle of the armour, meaning the penetration of APFSDS should increase when dealing with them. Here's the Joker, Gaijin ignored all that, gave Russia's MBTs armour that overperforms by 25% (not to mention ERA that eats anything, even stuff it shouldn't - but there's no fix for it, even after a year of ERA doing that stuff. Very convenient hand-holding, almost as if there's actual Russian Bias.) and made most if not all NATO APFSDS underperform in one way or another; e.g - DM53 should be *easly* capable of defeating a T-90A at combat ranges exceeding 3km's (it was designed to do so), so should L27 and possibly M829A2, none of them can do that.
2) Their mobility is just as overbuffed, the trials for T-80U showed that it accelerates roughly 30 - 40% slower than heavier MBTs (M1A2/Strv 122) yet it butchers them in the game in every single catergory of mobility that isn't reverse - again an example of Gaijin ignoring real life trials to hand hold Russia.
3) NATO MBTs are full of nerfs;
- Leopard 2s still have double-spall modifiers for their mantlets
- Leopard 2s mantlets (also the NERA blocks next to the gun) are underperforming by roughly ~80% in Gaijin's infinite wisdom
- M1s are missing some UFP armour
- Leclercs are missing at least 250mm of KE protection at their UFPs
- Type 10 was literally released in a nerfed state - it's known to be far more mobile than Type 90 but no no, Gaijin couldn't have a NATO MBT be more mobile than the T-80s, could they?
4) Survivability of NATO tanks is butchered as well - fx; blow-out racks can be (as seen in this video) blown open even WHEN they round does not penetrate the blast door. Like??? How the fuck. If the blast door's intact the ammunition should cook off not fucking explode??? Fuck off Gaijin.
The same very much funnily applies to all MBTs with blow-out pannels... BUT! Here's the kicker - T-series CAN be hit directly INTO the ammo and they won't detonate... LIKE HOW THE FUCK??? GAIJIN??? ARE YOUR BRAINS MELTED DUE TO CHERNOBYL OR WHAT???
There's more but i don't remember them. Anyways, it's clear as day that Gaijin is hand-holding Russia and they won't stop doing so. Russian Bias was a meme, now it's a reality.
THIS. I also think that only 2A5 /2A6 and strv 122 suffer fromm the duble spall but bad enough
Skill issue
What the fuck are you talking about? Some of your points are correct but exaggerated. And what is this bs where a 2a6 cant take out a t90. It does so sooo easily?? A t90 almost doeant stand a chance against a 2a6 long range. And are you not going to mention how 3MB60 is completely underperforming? Is should have around 700 mm of penetration
And what are you talking about the t80 is 46 tons vs the abrams 62!!! Russian tanks are considerably lighter and have just as powerful engines maybe a little less but that explains the better mobility
@@topbanana.2627 You're aware of their worse torque at the sprocket, worse transmissions, bad hp transfer as well as god awful ground pressure, yes? You're aware there's more to mobility than MUH BIG HP ENGINE.
as a player who plays an immense amount of german top tier (with some USA), i find top tier in general to be in an atrocious state - particularly for Germany v Russia atm. In a vacuum, german SPAA is quite underwhelming and has a lack of viable IFVs, light tanks and CAS. The german heli tree is horrific to grind with no potent premium (or reward) heli. The Tiger is a good top tier but very few of them are in circulation as compared to its contemporaries. Combine this with the differences in SPAA, tech tree flexibility and general playstyle / skill gaps, it is pretty terrible atm. I wish germany could get a multi role ifv like the puma or east german tunguska (even though they never got them as far as I know).
Germany lacks light tanks in general, not only in top tier. :(
I agree, I basically have all the vehicles in Germany and the EC UHT is okay, it was nerfed so bad. The lock on doesnt lock well if the target is between two trees, loses lock when it goes behind something, and the PARS atgm is SO SLOW, in a range of 7 km, it takes 27 seconds to get there. Now imagine this vs. Ka 50 Ka 52 where they have the fastest atgm for heli in the game, and the fact they can keep flying even after being shot. Also the AIM9s are unreliable for jets, I prefer using the PARS but the enemy can also dodge them easily if they pay attention. Leo 2A6 with DM53 652mm can't pen the T80 and every other tank with ERA. You have to be picky in order to kill from the front those tanks. The German F4F Phantom just have 2 Mavericks, while Mig27K has 4 unguided ordnance, and American F4E Phantom has 4 Mavericks and unguided ordnance as well (and radar air to air missiles too! but german one doesn't), Germany top tier is not great at the moment. The TAM2C with Gen 3 thermals but 436mm of pen is kinda useless against rushers and aircrafts. Flarakrad is good, but with heli spawn 2 missiles per reaload means dying, and don't forget the KAs can spawn rockets or more ATGMs to detonte the fuze of your missile.
I think it was shipped to germany
Wow! Russian made game and Russia is dominating.... Who would have thought?
Russia definitely needs a break from TT. If possible leak lists are true, Russia can expect the T90M & MS, alongside a couple of Mig 29 variants.
The fact that countries like Italy would still be using the Ariete and F104 is ridiculous.
Dont forghet the bmpt terminator 😂😂😂
Italy is a bad example because - again - there's literally nothing better for them. The Ariete as it is in game is the Italian MBT as it is currently in service.
As for the air - again - nothing to add to Italy that would be actually relevant to "top tier" until everyone gets Aim-9L (will come soon enough) ; but even then, Italy will suck because an F-104-ASA will still be ten times easier to dunk on with a missile than any jet that can actually turn. Tornado we don't know if it could be an option, but even if it was it would almost certainly be mediocre at best. F-16 should be great, but it really won't be unique.
I agree but I still kinda wanna see MiG-29
Please give some example’s for tanks that could make it more balanced!! I just enjoy these videos the most!!
Another huge thing is the 125mm has great post pen damage compared to others IMO.
All top tier shells have the same post pen.
@@arieg2234 not the DM53 according to my experience.
@@exerity7942 Anecdotal experience means nothing. All top tier long rod shells have the same "APDS_FS_LONG" damage preset.
@@arieg2234 no actually. cl31 far out paces other nato shells in terms of post pen for example
@@snepcheck2198 any evidence?
Don't forget to add that they have very overperforming ERA . The T72 side skirt ERA will eat M1a2 top apfsds rounds easily.
Which it shouldnt because ERA is meant against shaped charge ammo and not kinetic penetrators like APFSDS...
@@LtCWest Some ERA types can deflect Kinetic projectiles like the Ukrainian (I forgot the name). However, Russia's Kontakt ERA cannot deflect APFSDS
Oh trust me bro it’s the same with DM53 point blank on the side and I got clapped cause of that.
@@panzerschiff9805 Interessting, thanks for bringing that to my attention.
thats called hitting multiple ERA blocks in one hit. A direct 90 degree shot will always go through.
Back when I played (2013-2021) I did usualy notice that the team that lost did usualy have a high number of aircraft and not many tanks. Anecdotal of course but that was the usual commonality I noticed at mid-high tier.
had a game this morning where i was literally one of only 2 tanks in the game in my X-M803. It was me and a hostile t64 on the ground and we just found a covered spot and hid there together as the jets roared endlessly overhead and everyone was yelling at us to cap something. We refused right up to the point where the planes got their asses on the ground and into tanks. If we wanted to play Air RB we would have queued for Air RB so we forced the issue.
@@shamrock3957 That`s what I hate about ground RB. I usually have atleast 2-3 rounds a day where there are only tanks for the first 3 mins and then there are about 10 planes in the sky simultaniously. And the fact that they make planes so strong against ground forces with guided munitions that lock on to targets is unbelieveable. At this point and for a long time now I think planes just don`t belong in ground RB. They should have a different gamemode like tnaks only or something
@@blume3516 completely agree. It should be Air AB/RB/SB, Ground AB/RB/SB, then Combined Arms AB/RB/SB.
@@shamrock3957 That would be beautiful. However, how would you otherwise be incentivised to also start grinding CAS via premium time/premium air vehicle? Gaijin would lose potential income with this move so it's very unlikely to happen.
@@bickboose9364 Oh its pretty much guaranteed not to happen, lol. I've long since accepted that as bad as the system is right now IMO its here to stay.
You know Spook, in russian WT community every one tell that soviet/russia tanks/teams are suffer. Im not joking. This is so f-ing funny.
*lmao* _poor fellas_
6 months later, nothing changed.
Every other nation that had "meta" vehicles got nerfed within the first few patches, but here is Russia with the Ka-50/52, T-80BVM, Mig-27K and the BMP-2M still in its blatantly overpowered state.
High br nearly unplayable right now.
Now imagine the moment when Gajing decides to add the T90M
we would love to see more gameplay :D
Great vid, with an objective point of view as usual and a proposal for a fix
Never been disappointed by your vids ! Hope one day they listen more to this side of the community rather than those A-10 goes brrrrr and similar ensieg design fans
Can you cover the 1 death leaving problem next?
That's prevalent on Non-Russian tanks simply because the Repair Costs are literally 3-4 times higher. T90 Repair cost 3437 SL, M1A2 Repair Cost 12,000 SL, Swede STRV122 13,392 SL. Most egregious examples there.
Don't forget that Russia can spawn multiple times thanks to their lower repair cost. From what I've heard, America, Sweden and Britain have high repair cost compared to such.
USA and Sweden have the highest in game
13k repair cost for BOTH STRV 122’s
Russia can spawn 4 takns for price of one spaded strv .
it's normal gayjin is russian
@@ender1111 No it fucking isn't lmfao.
Russia? Having the “best” vehicles? In a Russian game? Nooooooo, that’s crazy.
What's crazy is that modern Russian tanks have been knocked out by guerrilla forces with nothing but outdated rpgs/TOW and ieds. Their armor isn't nearly as strong as the Russian government propaganda says it is.
@@Iceman7711 ah yes T72 ural gets knocked out meants T72B3, T90A, T-80BVM should also have the same weakness yes?
Its the only place they can have the best vehicles
@@tsundereoperator5741 cope
I love that background music, Subnautica is such a great game, you should cover it, btw you should play Abandon Ship (also from Subnautica)
I agree on filling out some of the other tech trees. especially spaa options. I know as primarily US player I often find those lacking in most tiers.
winrate when i play usa, germany 11.0 is absolutely abysmal. however when i switch to my t80bvm my team just steamrolls through the enemy with ka50's
Yeah, and I love using my Ka-50's ATGM's to snipe jets doing 1100 km/h and maneuvering. Like holy hell Gaijin has made top tier Russia so OP.
I don't know about your win rate as the USA, but I'm winning like mostly 2 games out of 20 playing the USA against Russia 11.0. my team gets steamrolled like in 5 min max :) I'm really close to visit control panel and remove this ungodly piece of shit game
Well that is what happens when You have ~20 years of gap between two major nations. T-80BVM, T-72B3, Sprut, BMP-3... they all are present in their latest upgrade variants form 2010's meanwhile the US is kept in the early 1990's. In the air it's not much better with 1980's MLD stomping 1960's Phantoms. IRL when MLD entered service not only F-15A but C was already way into it's operational life... Soviet ATGMs have simplifyed flight model without their signature spiralling motion meanwhile Hellfires for a long time just straight up didn't work at all and now barely work cuz snail is incapable of propperly programming it's guidance... Add to it soviet repair cost hovering on 1/4 to 1/2 of comparable western vic and top it all with having to GE crew to outpace russian autoloaders
Honestly I just don't care about top tier anymore, haven't played it in months and I am not going to any time soon, going closer to just leaving years and thousands of hours of playing behind and quiting.
The phantoms that we have in game are form the 70s or even 80s not the 60s, keep in mind that the EJ Kai is an 84 plane, or the viggen is also an early 80s, and the British phantom are all late 70s and the f4j is at least a 76 variant
Thats's TRUE!
@@noelmoreno5879 Every single NATO plane should be armed with much better missiles from the same year. AIM-7F/M, Aspide, and of course, the big boogeyman, AIM-9L. Even though it would basically be a slightly longer range R-60M, as the R-60 and R-60M are both way too good at locking targets from frontal and side angles. The R-60 should lock things that the SRAAM would (IE, only stuff from the rear), R-60M should have lock angles like the AIM-9G/J.
And even then, Russian planes still have a handheld flight model, as the instructor is programmed to fly them pretty much perfectly but will very happily make sloppy maneuvers with NATO aircraft.
Considering the F-15C would eat every single plane in the game alive due to air being *the* emphasis of the USA, I don't mind it being excluded. I just wish we got modern upgrades and variants, as has already been mentioned endlessly both here and elsewhere. Air and the Abrams aside, there's no reason for the M103 from 1957 to be in the game when the Russians have the T-10M with its 1967 HEAT and sabots. No reason they couldn't give us the M103A2 with upgraded FCS, turret traverse, and engine.
@@SpardaSon21 well the m103 isn't 8.3 maybe is that the reason why it doesn't have those, besides its a bit stupid that you mention the date when a leopard 1 from the 65 is 7.3
how do i adjust the vertical range scale in-game / what is it named in the controls menu?, so that i can rebind them...
now compare Russia vs smaller tech trees like Italy, Japan or France.
Even the USA and Germany have a hard time dealing with Russia, and for every player form those minor nation in your match, that's one player with a pretty bad lineup : one or 2 decent tanks, then either back to the hangar or just vehicles that aren't equipped well enough to deal with most 10.3/11.0 MBTs.
Playing those minor nations will lead to having more people like you in your own team, and sometimes, they gather all the minor nation against 2 of the major ones like Ger / Russia or USA / Russia against you. Combat logging would save you silver lions and time at this point.
Minor nation players are essentially shooting themselves in the foot, being forced to play against unfavorable odds every game. By playing a major nation, you at least have a greater chance to get a decent enough team. Worst part being the fact that as time goes on, this problem gets worse and worse : minor nation players will just stop playing them and transision back to major ones, reducing even more the player count on one side, increasing on the other and making the decision of which nation to give a new vehicle a whole lot easier for Gaijin
From my experience playing the top tier of both France and Italy, the french and italian tanks tend to be more towards the top. I think this is due to these countries being played by more experienced players.
@@plantenthusiast3052 That's literally all it is, when I see people play France like myself, we need to get near the top of the team if only to break even on repair cost. And in order to do well in a nation with only 3 MBTs and 1 CAS 1 Heli option against nations like Russia with 6 tanks, 2 lights, 3 helis, and 3-4 viable CAS, its just impossible.
I took to playing naval for a while, you can make tonnes of silver out of that. Best ship to get is so far is USS Atlanta.
Atlanta is a hit or miss really because with only the HE Serious damage besides the deck is out of the question
@@ryanh2621 iunno, eats destroyers alive for me.
It lights people on fire always as well
Is it hard to find a match?
@@phobosatthegatesofe3m158 no, Atlanta is the popular choice for Naval. US Naval are the top, will dominate the naval thanks to their Fast Reload and 13mm of Armour on Destroyer Hull, if you fight against 3 Moffet and an Atlanta, it would be a win for them.
edited: usually it took 40 seconds to get a match
@@phobosatthegatesofe3m158 At peak hours, no issue.
At night, it'll take a couple minutes and then there'll be some bots in the game. Sadly unlike world of warships bots give you awful rewards.
So I play every nation at top tier aside from Italy and China. Russia the past few patches has gotten everything it lacked meanwhile other tech trees have not gotten anything they lacked.
Within 2-3 patches Russia received the best CAS plane in the history of CAS the Mig-27K being able to carry 4 laser guided missiles that you can use from 8km away with ease and a 30mm.
In one game I got 7 kills with my Mig-27K 4xmissile kills and 3x30mm gun kills. This isnt even considering the fact that Russia also received its best round one 3 tanks. While most nations only get there best round one 1 or 2 tanks. Top attack missiles where overly nerfed in my opinion giving nations like the U.S and Sweden good counters to the heavy ERA on Soviet MBT's. Nations like France and Germany have yet to receive there modernized CAS/Light vehicles.
France has the Jaguar but it only carries 2 laser guided weapons and doesnt have the extremely effective 30mm gatling gun like the Mig-27 and the Jaguars flight performance is less then desirable.
I think France should receive the Mirage 2000 at this point to fill the need of a top tier fighter and CAS aircraft. Along with either the EBRC Jaguar or VBCI 2 to fill the gap of needing a light tank and possibly buffing French helicopters with similar fire and forget Spike missiles like the Tiger UHT.
Germany should receive the Puma with the Spike ATGM's although nerfed, as lock on after launch capabilities would be too overpowered but have them work like hellfires from the ground similar to what systems like the Stryker SHORAD would perform like. Germany should also receive some sort of buffed CAS but I dont know much to be able to say what they should get to bring them up to spec to Russia.
U.S , The U.S currently lacks a top tier SPAA. And before you mob me I know the ADATs exsist but the SP cost of the ADATs makes it hard to spawn as an actual SPAA. The whole point of SPAA is after you die with your MBT's you get this low cost vehicle to be able to help your team but keeping the skies clear. I think with all the high altitude CAS its time for Gaijin to add more advanced SAM systems along with SEAD/DEAD . The U.S also imo lacks CAS now compared to Russia. The Mavericks imo are inferior to the newer laser guided munitions simply because its harder to find targets and lock them with the clunky interface. The U.S should receive GBU-12 Paveways on the F-4E with its laserpod similar to that of the Jaguars.A buff to the Apaches across the board giving them the fire and forget hellfires but limited it to only 8 fire and forget missiles similar to the Tiger UHT. After the TOW-2B nerf the U.S could use the Stryker SHORAD with would also double a close range SAM utilizing a 20mm cannon 4xstingers and 2x hellfires on a stryker chassis.
The M1a2's are good tanks in terms of armor and firepower but they really do need new optics I think its a bit silly that Russia is so far ahead of NATO in optics when historically and till this day Russia is behind in optics.
To continue though the U.K has 3 MBT's with decent optics firepower and usable armor. What the U.K lacks is light vehicles I think they should receive the AJAX which would perform similarly to the Puma and EBRC/VBCI 2. Buff the British Jaguar to carry 4 laser guided weapons to have similar capability to the Mig-27k.
Sadly for Japan there really is not much left for us Japanese tank enthusiast we could get a SAM but thats about it for now till we receive newer CAS in the form of the F-2/F-15J.
I cant touch on Italy/China as I dont play them and don't really know much about there vehicles.
And finally, I decided to put this at the bottom because it deserves its own separate part.
The A-10 for the U.S should be added. Reduced payload ofc, historically the A-10 could carry 4-6 mavericks along with 4 laser guided bombs ( depending on the bomb size and the pylons it could carry even more ) It could also be the first aircraft to receive cluster munitions. So how would you balance this monster of a weapons load? Simple you make the player choose between which guided weapons they want you can only have the mavericks or guided bombs but not both. And if you want both for some odd reason reduce each by half so the loadout would look something like this.
2x Mavericks
2x Paveway II
2x 500LB bombs
2xAIM-9L's ( The A-10's ground loadout is going to put it at a high tier in air rb and I think this is the perfect platform for the first U.S all aspect missile)
OR
6 AGM-65B's
NO BOMBS
2xAIM-9L's
OR
4x Modernized AGM-65L/H
NO BOMBS
There is also room to give the U.S the laser guided rocket pods which would be pretty funny to have but might be a bit overpowered due to the fact that you can land one right on a SPAA from 8km away giving you insane kill potential against enemy SAM players.
One thing that could be done for Japan is properly modeling the Type 10, from what I've heard it's missing armor and the mobility it's supposed to have, but yeah, you absolutely nailed it with this comment.
@@guywhodoesstuff3314 Yeah the Type 10 is missing a lot right now, the armor is really lacking. But what is worse is the Type 10 feels more sluggish then some of 60 ton NATO MBT's. Also I didnt mention this in my other comment but it should be known, Gaijin starts working on vehicles months if not years before they are added.
So Russia getting all these vehicles in such quick succession might have been a blunder on Gaijins part. Probably due to other nations contemporary vehicles lacking public information causing delays in a vehicles addition.
Right now im grinding out the American ground tree and im on my last tank and that being the m1a2 just unlocked the m1a1 hc and my god it's as painful as ever to grind to get the first tier apfsds seeing how one always faces Russia and we all know they eat heat-fs for breakfast unless you hit their lil weak points as with every shell and i have prem acc. I wanna cry so bad
Reactive armor is another thing that russian vehicles certainly aren't lacking.
Yeah, especially when it absorbs APFSDS to the side or the front yet my ERA gets penetrated every time by theirs.
In my experience I died most of the time to ka50 helis after getting kills against russians MBT in my Leclerc
Because imo the leclerc is the best counter mbt vs russians, its downsides
Bad survivability/easy1shot and bad gunhandling are negated by the fact soviet MBTs are easier to 1shot, and they have weaker gund that cant just cuz throu the leclercs UFP and 1 shot it right away, on top of that both have an autoloader, but the leclerc is considerably faster
@@ofekk213 that's what I do and ka50 are gone After because the it0's missiles are so effective
@@ofekk213 those things literally sweep ka50 out of the sky
@@ofekk213 but if u die in the ito u spend 17k stock to repair it
I think you are missing one big point, top tier cas availability, most ground rb players dont care about air rb so they dont put the time in to get good cas but with russia you can just buy top tier cas ( ka50 & su7bmk), so alot more russian players have actually good cas and not some low br heli or subsonic attack aircraft.
As bad as it sounds i think giving other nations similar premium cas options could help the overall top tier balancing imo
Because just getting rid of the ka50 and prem su7 is not gonna work since 100s of players already have them
Beyond that i agree with you, anyway that is my 2 cents, good vid as always keep it up.
And Question what makes you think america doesn‘t have good cas,the biggest problem with most cas players is they are braindead
Su7bmk isnt that great at 11.0, but Su22m is :D
Whenever I play with my Abrams, I have to carry the whole team to victory. I’ve been able to do it a few times, but it’s really hard to do
Hello , this is an awesome video and analysis. I love your pros and cons section, as it debunks the stupid idea, that Russia have more inferior MBTS. While the t72b3 have better armor from front and side armor compared to the 2nd best well armored NATO tank- challenger 2.
2 thing that bugs me are the incorrect reload time for t72 and t80.
Gaijian should also remove the 3bm60 and fix the correct penetration value for 3bm42 and 46.
Also, this is true not just for ground forces, but also the top tier jets , the MLD is stomping everything.
NGL the "russian tanks are bad because of bad gun depression, handling and slow reverse speeds" is kinda dumb....
Given what terrain russian tanks were designed for, mostly plains, steppes and slightly hilly areas (in contrast to Leo being designed around a mix of plains, hills and semi-mountainous terrains), they perform perfectly well. And since maps in WT are so artificially designed that you always have steep/urban, semi-steep and flat areas, they always have an area where they are going to perform their best.
You think tanks and especially russians ones are correctly modelled in this game ? Russia is still giving to this day fake images of it's T14 Armata, 45 tons tanks outperforming every other tanks in speed and armor just lmao developed in bankrupt USSR. Just take a look at the fake photoshopped images of Russian government about Ukrainian Mig shooting a civilian plane, it was entirely demystified by people on the internet not even secret services 😅
Somehow you missed the considerably repair cost discrepancy. No point playing top tier of nations (almost all of them) where you lose credits if you die, even if you played well. And if you die once, you are better off just leaving instead of respawning and potentially losing even more credits.
And imagine if we get the t90m this year as expected
As someone who never goes above 7.7, this is interesting to hear about.
Another problme is the fact nations like france that has fewer vehicle got them nerfed otherwise they would be too powerful. Best example is the leclerc SXXII that is lacking around 100mm in protection for it's front composite (made of titanium insert but being only slightly more effective in game ?), has weakspot it shouldn't have and shoots rounds it nerver used instead of the much more powerful they have irl like the ofl120 F1B and f2B and other variants lack their f2. Top tier russia isn't winning the most because they have awsome tech, but because tech made to face them is artificially nerfed. I believe we can put it on russian bias.
Also Russian tech is artificially buffed.
For instance using 68 degree armor values for T-72s but flat pen values for APFSDS. T-72B (without K5) only has 550 mm RHAe at 68 degrees, while something like M829 has significantly higher LOS pen than 550 mm at 68 degrees (in fact it even approaches 560 mm at 60 degrees from 2km, let alone at 68 degrees), but gets stuck with 489 mm 0 degree pen against it. So rounds like M829, that should pen the T-72Bs UFP at 2km, suddenly cant even do it at point blank range.
Likewise tanks like Leclerc and Abrams both have artificially nerfed UFPs that cant bounce and also artificially nerfed paper-mantlets.
Its just a perfect storm of Russian bias and small peepee energy on the part of Gaijin.
@@johanlassen6448 why T-72B is RHA not composite? and what t-72B u refer to.
@@Rururudenko I think it's equivalent to 550mm of RHA, not that it's not composite
@@Rururudenko RHAe, i.e. composite protection equivalent to an amount of RHA. The T-72B has composite armor that combines sloping with different materials. Those two things together, when factoring a sloping of 68 degrees, produce protection which against kinetic longrods provide an equivalent of 510-550 mm RHA. Ergo RHAe (the e = equivalent).
Any T-72B variant that does not carry K5.
@@johanlassen6448 thank
I think the main issue with top tier is that the maps are too small, making it so that you absolutely NEED to have split second timing otherwise you're essentially fucked
I feel like half the maps start to feel really cramped at 7.0 already, I can imagine what top tier is like. There's no space to utilize the longer ranges that higher tech tanks are meant for and capable of. It starts to feel like bringing a sniper rifle into a call of duty match. Especially on maps like Karelia, Frozen Pass and Finland where the hills and cliffs limit the sightlines heavily.
The maps should be big enough that it's possible to be too far away from an enemy to be effective. At lower BR's this can happen, but at higher BR's nothing it out of reach even at the opposing end of a map. If you can see it, you can kill it.
And I dont mean "effective" as in "duh just use heat that far away", I mean as in the shot will fall short no matter what you do because it doesn't fly fast enough. The maximum firing range of a T-80 is around 3 kilometers. The same for the M1A2. The Leopard 2A4 has a reach of 5 kilometers. And I've never had to shoot further than 1,5 kilometers, even on the bigger maps like Fields of Poland.
@@ofekk213 Thats a problem with some of the maps too. A lot of them have ditches or small valleys you can use to move around, or you can risk a faster route over the hills and ridges but risk getting shot. But then there's some that are just straight up flat suicide plains where its impossible to get from the spawn to a cap without being shot if the enemy gets into position. Hurtgen is a good one (mostly), Poland is a bad one.
I have had a much easier time now that I have top at Russia. My explosive armor on the body can completely stop an APFSDS, my auto loader means when we trade shots and both gunners are knocked out, mine still loads.
How do you get the crosshair to move after range finding
I’m not even trying to get to top tier, there’s just no incentive
Hey Spook, if you were a tank designer what features would you add or remove? And what tank would it be heavily/lightly based of?
im not a engineer but a sniper tank with ok armor, great firepower and great mobility is what i think would be good so a light medium i quess
@@lolkid6018 that's pretty much every modern MBT. also, Spook really likes light fire support vehicles like the HSTV-L or the AGS, and I think he said he likes the Sprut-SD too, so he would do something like that.
Probably a second turret or sponson with a larger caliber gun for supporting HE fire. Either that or twin-linked cannon for more rounds on target.
Idk if It's okay for me to contribute, but:
For the hull I'd have a conventional hull with composite in front with a u shaped fuel tank and 25mm plate separating it from the driver with another 25mm plate separating it from the fighting compartment. The fighting compartment would have tc, tg with tc/g on one side and autoloader on the other. 25mm plate between fighting and engine compartment. Standard 1500hp diesel engine with 2000litres total fuel capacity in armored fuel tanks that stretch across side sponsons and in front of driver compartment. The compartment would also house transmission and fluid containers. Engine compartment would be built with thermally absorbent tiles to reduce IR signature. Liquid and air cooling would be used. No ammunition would be stored in hull. Hull will have 1080p cameras with night vision mounted on all sides. Total weight would be approximately 35 tonnes.
The turret would be octagonal with each outward face being 50mm thick. They would be flat armor plates with applique mounting points. Four of the faces would be mounted with a dual purpose (against HEAT and KE) composite piece approximately 200mm vs KE and 350-400mm vs HEAT. Over these plates would be an IR warning receiver and a micro trophy APS. Two of the other plates will have thicker composites with 500mm vs KE and and 1000-1100mm vs HEAT. The gun mount would provide approximately the same protection as the heavy composite plates. The tank interior would be lined with HEAT resistant liner and synthetic spall liner materials. The tank would carry a 140mm gun with 36 shells in turret bustle mounting a bustle Autoloading conveyor system. The autoloader and ammo rack will be in a completely armored compartment with blow out panels covering the bustle roof. They will be deflected at 30 degrees. It would carry NATO standard coaxial and pintle mounted machine gun in 7.62 or new caliber with 2000 rounds in standard cans under commander. Batteries would be stored in both the hull and turret allowing operating without engine running. Temperature management system would be in place using interior recycled air. The main gun day optics would be x0-16 wide lens with 40 degree FOV and have digital zoom overlay. Night optics would be x8 dual mode high definition night vision and thermal with 30 degree FOV. Would feature standard NATO radio equipment and all optics would have digital backup with target sharing battle net capabilities. All controls would be available to gunner and commander including driving. Total weight probably around 30 tonnes.
@@sasharudyy3587 all mbts are like that because its works well so maybe i will become a tank designer
Hey, has anyone else noticed the hstv-l vs t80bvm Side armor? I have had a dozen instances where I am able to have the flank on a t80bmv and go for ammo through side armor and just end up getting no penetration because of the skirts. The protection analysis shows ammo penetration at 57° with a heading angle at 31° Despite that being at a perfect 90° angle I will still not even pen the skirts of the t80. I am unsure if its a bug in the side armor of the t80bvm, but its really made it even more depressing to play against Russia at top tier with my favorite tank. I know you love the Hstv-l I was wondering if either you or anyone has had this issue.
I was interested, now you got my attention.
> Gen 1 only on US tanks
If it isn't proof of bias, I don't know what is.
Yeah, I've noticed that too.
This. This is the bias. I’m not crazy, gaijin is HEAVILY biased
Idk... But our man spookston did a video on this Bussian Rias
Yea, 2A6, in real life, has both for gunner and commander 3rd gen thermals, if not mistaken, it is supported by actual tank drivers, one being interviewed in an video, I think Red Effect channel, and I met one within the game, and asked these few questions as well that are quite important, it was regarding 2A6 soon after it was introduced to us. One of the questions were thermal sights, to which he acknowledged that both for gunner and commander are equal generation.
does the T-80U still have thermals? despite everyone knowing they did not have them
Over a year later and nothing has been done.
the war is still going on, propaganda is still needed.
Real
It's turned way worse since the ukraine war, the damage model of russian tanks are just fcked and im a russia main
There is no reason for russia to get another mbt, but maybe in the very distant future, it would be cool to get the T-90M.
Love your work
No lower the spawn costs
I don’t play any ground vehicle past 6.3 and I’m glad that I decided to do so long ago.
Top tier where if you don't play russian MBT with repair of 1.5k or 2.k you'll go bankrupt otherwise.
even Leo 2A4 that is super nerfed compared to IRL, the collimator in the gun means the model is from 1993, by 1993 all Leo 2s were using DM33..., so where is it? And it costs 3.8k-4k sl to repair...
Also, its armour is laughable, a bloody 'Mango' can penetrate the turret cheeks, - and everywhere else - that's quite absurd...
It feels like it's an export-version, or I don't know.
@@mikhail-yug-9581 the only good NERA part of 2A4 is the left turret cheek, and it must be angled to stop more powerful rounds than "Mango".... which is of no use, because to defend yourself you must be hull-down anyways.
Leo 2a4 in game is modeled as a b tech despite it being a 1993 c-tech.
Even then it's armor is underperforming by 100mm on the hull
@@Ropetor also i heard that he's missing a tungsten block in the mantlet which would make it 430mm of NERA and Tungsten is also more effective in protection.
@@user-sh2mo9ex8c Im not sure if it's for the 2a4 tho.
Leo 2a5 and 2a6 have nera and a 200mm block of titanium on the breach, but gaijins for reasons moddels it as structural steal with 0.20x multiplier instead of 0.87x
Also leopards have twice the spall modifier on the breach, don't know why they are the only ones.
I have been saying this for years with a few buddies of mine, as of right now, and most likely in the future. Russia has been on the edge of being OP, the amount of top tier tanks, support tanks, (in my opinion) the best SPAAG, best Heli's and strong air support. Pair that up with low rep costs, and the fact that they are of the only country's to get their war kits (Looks at M1's), and lastly the over preforming ERA they have. It just makes it feel like the only way to win or have fun is to play Russia, intentional or not. It just makes it boring.
Also on a small side tangent, have you all seen the amount of damage the Migs do with there guns compared to everything else? example being, the A7D/E's 30mm HE round does less damage then the 23mm HE round on all Migs. Isn't that something stupid? Well I'm done ranting about that as it does nothing, but what's your guy's thoughts?
Trust me from an air focused player the 23mm i
does not do more damage than the 30mm gau. The 23 is the worst air rb gun possible.
Feel like it's because they have ka50/52 and the newer one as well as getting paired up with Germany so often. So they don't have to fear spaa's as much. Where allies have to deal with flak spaa's and s56. Making it hard to come in low or high.
I hate that the TURMS can stop APFSDS but the ERA on the TURMS wouldn’t stand a chance against it in reality
those who say or try to downplay prowess of russian mbts by calling it ammo rack on wheels etc, they have no idea what they are talking about or they are just bad or average player.
I have 3k hrs and have 7 nations grinded out and russian tanks are although not by far but significantly better than their counterparts. lack of gun depression and survivability is made up with absurd acceleration and top speed, smallest weakspot and strongest armor.
Alongside the best thermal sight and FOV, plus good pen from apfsds and you also have tandem warheads. i would disagree with armor, if we are talking for the entire russian tree then yes but for MBTs the STRVS have the best armor in game ATM.
lol
@@gugi233 armor numbers are irrelevant between bvm and 122. Unless 1000mm darts come to the game.
@@killthemall55 untrue. the Strv can soak up more damage then the t80BVM can because of the ridiculus amount of armor layers it has. Also when you shoot down t80bvm turret era it has 495 mm or armor so anyone can go through it, while the leo5/6 cant even pen the STRVS turret from point blank range and they have the strongest round in the game with 652mm pen at 10 meters, best case scenario when i hull down you can get a breach.
@@gugi233 Not to mention the UFP is trolly as hell and the weakspot under the barrel is incredibly small.
add the javelin system to the us tech tree
So when they gona fix the longbow and let me radar lock ground targets and fire my hellfires that way laser isnt accurate at all or the missile is bugged on how many g it can turn
“Gaijin” we are going to add in the nest update T90Ms and T14 armada I hope you will enjoy that :)
as a us player the russain ERA is the real thing that really helps them because if your from the front you can only shoot drivers hatch to kill them in one shot otherwise it takes 1 shell to brake ERA and another to kill it
having russian tanks with gen 3 thermals and americans with gen 1 is fucking hilarious given it took the soviet like 20 years to catch up with that. literal bias, and those who say no are just saying no to shit on germany, as the community loves.
cope harder Russia did not take "20 years" to come up with that
@@zeffy._440 I said catch up... reading is hard
I havent played for 9months, I had around 800-900 hours, should I give it another try?
One thing for at least the MBTs in the U.S. tech tree that may or may not be the for other NATO tanks is that they received upgrades to their thermal sights/optics over time like with the AIM upgrade for the Abrams. This could easily just be a modification to add to a bunch of the MBTs that got it. Otherwise I think you're correct on support vehicles for the most part. Good video Spookston, thank you.
and now they just added the Stupid Pansir.
i personally think russian MBT's are the strongest in the game, the BVM can bounce any shell in the game frontally, even leopard 2A6 and in general they are just better at holding down W to win.
A minor point, but there is a weak spot on the BVM turret cheek you can pen thru surprisingly often. It's the horizontal line where the two ERA plates meet in the center, and goes all the way around the turret, like a medieval knight's visor. The classic box shaped weak spot right under the turret is also really easy, it's also a guaranteed one shot, either crew kill or ammo rack, and it's a pretty big area you can pen, combine that with the low silhouette which makes the BVM too short for most hull down spots, forcing them to expose its hull, and you can almost always one shot a BVM from the front fairly easily.
+1
No idea where this "Russian tanks are weak" sentiment originated from. BVM own the current meta. Glad to see at least one commenter with their head screwed on.
They literally have the worst turret armor out of every 11.0 besides the challenger (mantlet is huge and weak)
The T-90MS/SM, or whatever its called, is in WT now?
there is a thing id like to know since i mainly play planes
every time you measured distance the sight automatically adjusted itself.
is that a modern tank thingy only or is that also for mid to low tier?
That's a feature that is available if your tank has a laser rangefinder. It's mostly present on top-tier from 8.7 and forth, but some examples are present in mid-tier, with the prime user being France since they have the most of their tanks fit with laser rangefinder from 7.7 and on.
What i feel is an issue, you forgot to mention, the fact that russia has significantly more MBT's to spawn back in.
I play mainly Germany qnd after dying twice i don't have a MBT to spawn back in and either have to use a SAM and dedicate myself to shooting down aircraft, while being a waste of a team if no enemy air is up or a light support several br steps below top tier (begleitpanzer 57 and wiesel 1A2. Both of them aren't bad but can't do as much as a MBT)
While on the russian side there are atleast 4 MBT's suitable for top tier and more, better light support vehicles to fall back onto. And their SPAA is, after the ADATS, the best to use against tanks.
TLDR: while most enemys have to fall back onto vehicles significantly below the capabilities of top tier vehicles russia can still spawn in vehicles with thise capabilities
Top tier balance is so broke I see people first-spawn the 8.7 BMP2M and one-click anybody they see to death.
@@Mamiya645 yeah
8 (4 pf those ready to fire without reload) tandem, fire on the move atgms with 1200mm of pen with a low profile, good mobility and a gun that can pen most NATO MBT's side.
Compared to other IFV's of it's br it's criminally untertiered.
And the otter IFV's could already see a move in br up without having problems
From my experience it seems like when you play Russia 11.3 your entire team are also 11.3 and have stacked lineups. Whereas when you play top tier America, you have a lot of 10.3+ who leave after a couple deaths.
the thermals arnt problems for the m1s really atleast for me
What do you think about small tech trees that are 80% copy paste?