Peterson: What We Should Learn from Milton’s Paradise Lost
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- Jordan Peterson, professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, talks about ideological systems at the background of Milton's Paradise Lost.
#Peterson #ParadiseLost #Ideology
Check out the full lecture here: • 2017 Personality 13: E...
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Teachers must be intense, understandable and passionate and full of meaning. Thanks!!
Yeah but he talks about things and books he has admitted to not reading at all
For the first two minutes, it sounds like he's talking about the internet.
@Ordinary Sessel Thanks for clearing that up. My comment was more to the point that given humanity is always a misstep away from catastrophe, how do we sidestep social media and the internet? What do we do about others, and ourselves, to keep from tribalising into different echo chambers, in the face of having the collective human experience (omniscience) right at our fingertips?
Sean Dutcher Or, in other words, the Palantir!
Lol
He is
The greatest text in the English canon easily for me. Wish he’d address it in greater depth
Poets and artists get there first, and the philosophers follow…
I am just so profoundly amazed by the scope and breadthe of this man's wisdom and understanding of the world. He's extremely clinical, but hot on the trail of the spiritual. His mind is truly beautiful, beyond any Hollywood triviality. His mind is often like a tsunami of knowledge, nearly impossible to grasp or escape as it floods out wisdom over our ears. What I love most is that this undeniable intelligence seems destined to realize it's eternal source of Truth when allowed to pursue it without judgement or predetermined agenda. Science and rationality naturally lead back to the ultimate source of transcendent reality: God. Many favor their own will be done. For these, the journey will be longer and harder. Some put their ego aside and want for delayed gratification. It's either the feast then the hangover. Or, the fast then the feast. Thank God for Jordan Peterson.
Wow eloquently said!
@@crazyalarmstudios2012he still is you just don’t care or subscribe to his politics so it changes your opinion of him.
Its good methaphor for any political system - utopian or not, but it is also a good methaphor for any empire, which collapses under its own weight. Any who wanted a global empire didnt last long.
At the end of his long epic, Milton
Slows down, quietens, becomes sad and sober,
Walks and not trots, as we feel his slower
Pace and mild sorrow in the last five lines:--
Some nat'ral tears they dropp'd but wip'd them soon;
The World was all before them, where to choose
Their place of rest, and Providence their guide:
They hand in hand with wand'ring steps and slow,
Through Eden took their solitary way.
I, too, can write in ten syllable lines
Milton went poopy in his widdle pants
Milton went pee pee in his widdle pants
Milton must now venture to find new pants
@@Euclib I read once review of the great Milton
you tube comment section was the place
and a fellow wrote critique of review
and I added my bit with palmed face
Really loved this
Me too but it ended too quickly 😭🙈
When you listen to Dr Peterson, does anyone else constantly check your phones connection when he pauses like he does😂
He’s thinking before he speaks
@@thegraymedium_ I know
I just want to appreciate the projector in the back
Brilliant.
Good Job , Jordan .
I believe there is something called Dunbar’s Number, which indicates that once a social unit exceeds 150 people, the degree to which people can have meaningful relationships with each other becomes less and less. And thus the Tower of Babel project ultimately failed because, at least some symbolic or even practical level, the people who were a part of it were too different and disparate.
Peterson pontificates on the nature of 'suffering' and gives an analysis based on the individual vs 'society'. Long before 'society' existed with its imposed, external pressures of expectation and conformity, the very existence of consciousness in a wilderness devoid of meaning was THE SUFFERING that 'life' found itself in and enduring.
@JCSU Try reading books or at least quality news articles you braindead cabbage. A man without sufficient vocabulary to express thoughts is incapable of having thoughts that those words encompass. You probably can't understand that sentence, so let me write it again in a different way: if an artist has only primary colours in his repertoir of paints then he can't accurately reproduce real life pictures. Get it?
@JCSU I SEE THAT YOU HAVE A SHILL ACCOUNT. NO SUBS. NO CONTENT.
@JCSU Height isn't a requirement to look down on you.
@JCSU I've got no worries in that department little fella
@No Dreams The Buddha identied Life as comprising suffering 500 years before Christ made an appearance.
All that exists in Nature is just Order & Chaos.
All couched in human terms so as to help one understand earthly - heavenly dynamics. The big takeaway from Miltons work, is that all conscious creatures are imbued with free will and that Gods unconditional love does out of necessity, have limits....there is merit in being humble within the eternal struggle and so, allowing ones conscience to act as umpire is crucial in knowing and understanding one's place 😇
One of my former professors had a much profound and insightful lecture about Milton’s Paradise Lost than JP. It was still great though.
remarkable intellect.
AMAZING 😎
I am not buying this. That's a first for me with JP.
Sacrifice. Think processed sugar, fast food, coffee, tobacco, theft...a vice which is a deep part of you...but not good for your body/health/society - sacrifice and see what happens. Example - I can drink water in place of coffee. My body would be more balanced, no caffeine to detox or break down, more sustained energy throughout the day. Better sleep. Improved health. Better human, and healthier member of society. Less consuming, less impact to environment. Good for me, good for macro, a painful sacrifice as I love coffee and drink it knowing I would be better without it but it brings immediate gratification. Practice sacrifice. Look around. Most waistlines could use more sacrifice. (Decided to journal in cyberspace)
I'm telling mom your calling me fat again and in public no less!
@@noway905 lmao
#powerful
K, that’s worth going over twice. The place where I perennially disagree with Peterson tho, is his idea - which if I’m guessing right, he got from Heidegger and Kierkegaard - of taking responsibility and engaging in innocent speech (telling the truth) as the Good.
Having had Werner Erhard as one of the main mentors in my life, I get where he’s coming from, and where he’s pointing to.
But I’ve also seen that effort towards these paradigms, like all intentioned action, may well - especially on the macrosocial level - spill out the other end in phenomena or changes completely unrelated, or even opposite to the intended results.
I do like Peterson’s relentless critique of the neurotic element in ideology, tho.
@Moonburn13 Could you elaborate more on your ideas?
@@CDolph296 What, in particular?
You mean to express that Peterson is getting his point across in a way that its reception will be misunderstood?@@MoonBurn13
You gotta love the way he takes a piece of fiction, uses it as a hook, then takes you into these abstract journeys of universals, axioms and god knows what and fkin barrages you with abstractioms and multi-layered symbolism and then BANG! He links it with reality, breaks it down, simplifies his vocabulary, makes it relatable and always delivers it so matter-of-factly that he's sort of got you cornered and all you can do is just adopt that realisation as your own...you have no choice. Unless, of course, you're so deeply invested in some fort of escapism and are looking for ways to discredit whatever concluion he draws, cause you'd rather be smart than happy and fulfilled. Not that those are mutually exclusive, but in this particular clip, if you disagree, you can only do so at your own expense and that of those around you, as they would have benefited, had you actually accepted that only thinking of yourself all the time is simply unnatural. Sorry for dragging you into this convoluted comment; I swear, when I started typing, I thought I had a pretty straightforward and simple observation to make :D
That's why I enjoyed Philosophy in high school, my teacher used to do a similar thing. Instead of doing what most teachers do.
@@Pduarte79 Then you were lucky. Mine was just a self-enchanted poser with a beard fkn spewing out vacant platitudes. I ran into him recently...still an elitist bitch who still doesn't talk to his own daughter, bit calls everyone around him an uncultivated savage. But I didn't let him completely deter me from philosophy..judt to a great extent :D
@@dejanmarkovic3040
After class ended, me and 2 others students, often debated what was given during the class. Similar to how, classes were during the Ancient Rome and Greece, unlike the typical bs of modern school education, that favors memorization, instead of creating critical and free thinkers, instead is focused in creating mass production sheeple, like the song says, "another brick in the wall".
@@dejanmarkovic3040
That's one the reasons, that I love my gen, gen X, while comparing with boomers, Zoomers and millennials. No wonder, most conspiracy theorists are gen Xers. 😏
Being like an early Bart Simpson is in our dna.
When Boomers, Zoomers and Millennials are taught to be Marges and pseudo intelectual like Lisa, or even dumb and obedient Homers, then sell that as the norm, as the Way.
The beer virus, face diaper, etc stupidity, only shows that Icke was right, the wildebeest mindset of the cattle. The concept of PRS, the luciferian masons create the Problem, to induce mass hysteria, paranoia, the reaction they intent, in order to give the sheeple, the Solution that that serves their NWO/Luciferian goals. Is the Allegoric of the cave society.
Claim or rebellion? That enlightenment and suffering is a balance we rarely speak of. Outside of spirituality that is. Why is that hmm.
I had a light bulb moment listening to his tower of Babel interpretation. He didn't even need to explain if further, i understood him completely at his initial statement.
There could be a key to this text, in which the so called "united people" were tested, and had to adapt to certain challenges (life itself). It could be an underlying allegory for the challenges, which drive society and mankind forward, towards a higher level of consciousness or ethos. It is simply not enough to build a physical tower. The "real tower", the metaphysical key, transcends all the cultural and ethnic differences of humanity and reality too, i.e. the heavenly dimensions.
The key to overcoming these differences is not technology per se - which transcends all realities "as in heaven, so on earth", but love. That could also be a metaphor for the "Jacobs Ladder", moving up in a heavenly hierarchy i.e. moving closer to God once the life challenges (language barriers/conflicts) have been understood and solved. So becoming like God is not about external abilities (technology), but community, working together as one despite all sorts of ethnic or cultural "boundaries". It clearly resonates with the underlying narrative of the New Testament.
imagine if peterson extended this train of thought to capitalism
Next it will be Finnegan's Wake to really max out the literary prentiousness points.
Heh. Good one.
No wonder.
Green tablets of Thoth 🤔🕉️ building 7 😎❤️ ZIENIST ❓
Out of about a thousand views only 32 fools? Given how we are I would say those averages are cause for celebration.
Peterson leaves out key aspects of Satan's view. Milton was far more shrewd and detailed.
It's a 10 minute video. Give the man some credit
@@liyuche2695 Assessing Satan is key to any discussion of PL. No credit for getting it wrong, within 5 minutes or 5 hours.
Absolutely. If you don’t get the Satan character in PL, you don’t get PL.
I just learned I’m a descendant of this man..
Go look at my art. Lol
I’m confused
Those who are not passionate themselves cannot are arouse passion in others.
-Adolf Hitler.
Kermit!
He is describing the European Union precisely.
Or socialism
He's describing his own following.
@@20quid that's awfully broad
John Milton "Tis better to reign in hell than serve in heaven"
That’s his depiction of a fallen angel consumed with pride and envy, deceiving himself with sophistry.
@@eliasharrison9782 one person gets it! Damn someone understands the story of Paradise Lost and not swallowing Peterson's "it's about fighting and differing opinions"
no, it's about one being that both is too proud to admit he screwed up and also desperate to be forgiven at the same time and the pride overwhelming him.
Peterson didn't see this, it should be a sign as to his viewpoint.
The art of speaking volubly whilst saying very little
God did not decide what was suppose to be normal.
He is normal, the norm.
It's just us who live abnormally.
In our own way,
WHOOOOOAAAAA
Free from sin, free from sin. Oh, how I want to be free from sin. If not now, please tell me when. Just when will YOU seal me from sin?
lol
Milton’s Satan is the rebellious figure. God is the rational totalitarian in Paradise Lost.
You've never studied Milton have you
Perhaps the most shallow possible take on the poem is to take Satan's point of view as expressed in his public speeches as the truth. If it were the case Satan were a rebel and God a totalitarian, rational or otherwise, there would be no speech of remorse on Mount Niphates.
God is the All. Satan is he who falls in love with himself, forgetting the All, constructing his own rationalist kingdom and denying everything transcendent.
Milton did NOT write Paradise Lost before the rise of the nation state. Nor was the work prophetic. On the contrary, most critics acknowledge its autobiographical nature, based on Milton’s experience of the English Civil War. What is this fool talking about.
Most critics do NOT acknowledge its autobiographical nature. Milton opposed idolatry which was why he was a republican - he believed Kings only had earthly power and therefore it was idolatrous to worship them as God on Earth. Worshipping God in Paradise Lost is not viewed as idolatrous; God and Charles I are in no way conflatable, and you must have only done a very cursory and shallow reading to infer this.
@@freddyshaw1905 agreed, In my reading Satan is allegorical of Tyrannical Monarchy, just as Faustas sought to gain knowledge above his station, Charles I and Satan sought to attain a position in ‘The Great Chain of Being’ that opposed God’s supremacy.
First off he's completely wrong about the Tower of Babel story being about chaos it's funny to hear him talk like that, it's a story about the shattering of ties that bind a person to another, of the removal of common understanding and the argument about how easily it is that we can turn on each other when we don't understand each other.
Anarchy comes from that and that's not chaos, chaos is a loss of all understanding and total annihilation of everything, anarchy is the destruction of order which leaves a vacuum to allow for the assemblage of new order - in the image of how multiple nations come up out of this myriad of languages.
And trying to make Paradise Lost an image of the Political struggle between two groups is perhaps the biggest lie this idiot has ever actually spoken in his life.
If you take a look at the story of Paradise Lost (which 90% of you haven't) it's told from the perspective of the Devil entirely. We see everything from his point of view, from the beginning where we see the defeat in Heaven and the Host of Hell cast out to Hell where they make their justifications to the eventual corruption of Man and the destruction Eden.
Through it we see Lucifer both making serious arguments as to why he's not wrong in opposing God, why he's not wrong for hating The Garden, why he's not wrong for wanting man to fall into sin and when he has, glorying in it.
While simultaneously lamenting the loss he's gone though in losing his connection to the Perfect God, the Perfect Creation of Paradise and the Perfect image of God - made - Flesh in Man.
It's basically the "It's not my fault I did this, its yours." letter from the devil to God for why he's rebelling against his Father.(oh and he wasn't named as chief angel, he was among them but not the highest, that's more modern interpretations of other non-biblical text)
And this man is supposed to be a Christian, he's a freaking charlatan and con man trying to convince you he's intelligent when he's anything but that.
dear me.... he does not know anything about Milton and I rather doubt if he has bothered to read the whole poem. Satan has very little to do with rationalism - it is the story of the first non serviam; because of his pride and envy Satan will not serve God, therefore he rebels and therefore he is thrown into hell.
Of course Satan can be read as the rationalism that opposes unquestioning faith. An encapsulation of the Renaissance project to reconcile Athens with Jerusalem
But rationalism is exactly the pride of the intellect which denies everything transcendental
You fucked up Jordan Peterson
This is embarrassing. I doubt Peterson has even read Paradise Lost. Reminds me or when he was supposed to debate Marxism and pulled out the communist manifesto 😂😂😂
Can not get more totalitarian than God' ruling. He controls everything. If Totalitarianism is bad, then God is the worst.
Paradise Lost is actually a direct refutation of this stance. God is not the tyrant, Satan is.
God is so "totalitarian" that he permits Satan to be Satan
This was really poorly delivered, and not very incisive.
The God-fearing get there first, then the poets and artists, then philosophers, then finally the scientists follow.
He didn’t say that. While Milton was Christian, he didn’t write paradise lost as a religious work. I would question the idea that the god-fearing get there first. I’d say they get there last