Many experienced off road riders will always stay in second on steep inclines and feather the clutch to control the rear tire. It is easier to control rear wheel spin in 2nd gear than in 1st gear. We've ridden thousands of miles of technical single track and learning that technique is a game changer. Also, as you hinted, momentum is always your friend when attacking hills. A little quicker approach speed in the beginning translates into easier riding near the top.
@@Makermook I can't speak for motorcycles with dry clutches, but in my experience, wet-clutches can be slipped quite a bit in their service life. I currently have an africa twin with 33,000 miles and a lot of clutch slipping. My old KLR 650 had 59,000 miles on the original clutch when I sold it. I also have a klx250 and an xt250 with 13,000 and 18,000 respectively with many of those miles being offroad and plenty of clutch slipping. All original clutch plates and springs.
@@Makermook There is a difference between feathering the clutch at a reasonable rpm and burning the clutch. The clutch is a wear item. Wearing out prematurely is a concept created by riders who think the clutch is only slipped/feathered when starting from a complete stop. You will get years of riding use out of a clutch that is feathered and modulated. The throttle is used to control engine rpm, the clutch is used to control the power to the rear wheel. It is far easier to maintain a steady throttle position and feather the clutch while climbing technical hills than it is to try twisting the throttle to control the rear wheel while climbing a technical hill. A new rider will stall the engine because he is trying to twist the throttle while climbing. An experienced rider won't stall his engine even if he fails to make the climb because he keeps the RPMs up in the power range and feathers his clutch to control wheel spin and traction.
I was a huge fan of the Yamaha 125 in the 80's. After not riding for 25 years I thought I'd do the right thing and buy a Tiger 900 Rally Pro and took it on the AZ back road to Crown King. Before buying the Tiger I watched all of you videos and I think that may have saved me from certain insurance disability claims. I really need to take your class.
I don't even own an offroad motorcycle. I just love Mototrek and these educational videos are outstanding to learn from for city riding too. Great job Mototrek Team and Dusty!!!
What a nice, comprehensive explanation, Dusty! Thank you very much for that! I chose to listen to it twice, it really carries a lot of useful info, cannot afford to miss any of it 😊
One of the things I like about the GS is the ability in many situations to crawl up over sketchy terrain…it’s like a tractor with it’s torque, bottom end and gearing. After riding peaky low displacement two stroke dirt bikes in my youth and high horsepower in-line four street bikes since, I am continually impressed by the broad scope of capabilities my R1250GS possesses.
Awesome video! Wish I had seen it a couple weeks ago when I found myself forced to go up, then back down, the most challenging road I’ve ever ridden. Glad to see that I did some stuff right, but can also see things I could have done better.
Another thing about foot placement: When adding gas, toes down, when braking, heels down. This keeps the bike on your feet, not on your arms. This adds stability on hills; it takes a little practice, but keeps the bike from pulling or pushing you, as you're staying centered both on the bike and in the momentum of the bike.
I use the engine off technique all the time. Great advice about body position and using your knees to grip the bike going downhill. Too much weight on the bars causes fatigue and prevents you from absorbing deflections. One thing I'd add is that it's much easier to stop and rest going downhill than going uphill. If you lose your momentum going up it's much harder to get it back.
Great tips. I live off-road in mountainous, rocky terrain in Mongolia. It's a mix of grassy and forested mountain terrain with loose and embedded rocks. I don't usually ride trails, I generally ride cross country. The hardest thing for me is traversing hills when the hills are 20-30 degrees and have loose rocks. I think this is called 'crabbing' or maybe just traversing. It's intense. I also only ride lighter bikes because when I have tip-overs (pretty frequent), I need to pick up and position the bike on an awkward slope to get moving again. Lighter is better in this situation for picking up, avoiding injuries and getting pinned. My bikes are 24kg (eMTB), 85kg (Surron Ultra Bee) and 132kg (Surron Storm Bee). My bikes are all electric too so that's entirely different from a controls point of view. I used to ride mid-weight and heavyweight adventure bikes but sold them because I don't find them suitable for my 100% off-road, technical riding terrain. Nevertheless, your tips on body position, momentum and so on, are great and apply to my kind of riding. Thanks again.
First gear also makes it a lot easier to whiskey throttle when you hit a big rock or ledge, whereas you can stall the engine in second if you don't keep revs up. I still prefer second gear because it's easier to control the throttle and to rely on torque to power up the hill.
Great tutorial as always. I would like to add that the best method of doing any of these things off road is to simply get out there and ride and learn what works take these lessons apply them and get out and ride. Don’t be afraid you don’t get the experience that Dusty has by only riding once in a while.
last weekend, I took my 1150GS up a hill trail I would have no issue with on my KTM or Suzuki, but that's a real different animal on the trail. Hoping to take your CA training in Oct. Thx for all the great videos.
Wish I saw this yesterday morning lol. Went down a trail yesterday I thought would be pretty tame. After all most of the trail was on google street view. That section that wasn’t was very steep up and back down. Several switch backs that didn’t level off one bit. But I didn’t. 1st gear and engine breaking, gentle rear and front breaking and lots of balancing got me back down safely.
Really interesting approach to conveying useful information in an easy to understand manner, and very encouraging to go out and do it. Nicely done. My two cents is that some mention of where to look (a reasonable distance ahead along the chosen line works well for me, and kind of naturally curtails target fixation). Also, when I first road a 1250 GSA off road I was amazed at how well the bike felt with the surface that would paralyze a road rider on a non-adventure bike. I now understand that these big adventure bikes are extremely capable of confidently rolling through the terraine of one’s well chosen path. Accepting bumps through the suspension travel and in one’s knees if standing inspires sure footed assurance. So pick the line, focus ahead as that line unfolds, and let the suspension deal with the ground beneath the tires because by the time you get there its too late to do much about it without perhaps radical clutch, brake, steering, peg pressure, throttle input. All the techniques he offers + practice are the ticket to smooth. 🙏☮️
I have a video suggestion: Trying light to medium offroading but with 90/10 street tires like Anakee 3s or something similar. Basically trying to build confidence in street tires and finding their limits offroad. Great video as usual!
While I appreciate what you’re getting at, given the consequences of dropping machines like these big ADV bikes, my own conclusion has become to seek the best possible off road traction I can get, while preserving just enough street performance. I’m no longer interested in reducing my off road traction for the sake of learning. While I can imagine circumstances and riders for whom trying street tires in the dirt may be helpful, under extremely controlled conditions, that is too risky, in my opinion, as a general recommendation.
I got Shinko 705's on the front and rear and i can keep up just fine with my buddy with his knobby Dunlop's on this kind of terrain. The Shinko's are just way better on pavement. Both on 2nd gen Kawasaki KLR 650. The big difference is on grass or mud, then the knobbies are a must
Thank you for another great video. I fully support your techniques for going uphill. On the other hand, I have some issues with your downhill ideas. Firstly, I prefer to ride my 1290 KTM (approx the same weight as the GS) on steep downhills rather slower than faster. It is always easier to add speed than break. Secondly,, turning off the engine and work with the clutch works only on very short downhill situations. If you go downhill for a couple of miles you will destroy your clutch. I did use it on a 300 EXC, though. In the woods, walking next to my bike since it was too steep to ride (the front break has already overheated). On the ADV I prefer the engine break and additional the front break if necessary, but the key point for me is, go as slow as possible in the beginning to get comfortable with the terrain. If there is suddenly a tight corner or a log or something like this, it is easier for me to handle the situation. However, I thank you for the videos and lessons you provide. All the best from Austria, EU (the home of KTM 🧡)
Another great video about my most-dreaded aspect of off-roading. We shall try to implement the lesson in hopes of arriving at the bottom of gnarly hills with slightly less solid underpants than is currently the case. Great video, great technique, many thanks for posting.
Thanks! I have less of a problem uphill as down. On a steep, rocky downhill, a GS can become a runaway freight train. It never occurred to me to turn off the engine. I'll be sure to stick that in my repertoire.
Always love going over these technique videos. What's interesting to me now is that I've been taking my 250cc Suzuki cruiser up a hill like this, on my way to work. Body position is very hard to manage on forward controls.
Great clip, and I'd never considered killing the motor, and using the clutch as a more nuanced, left-hand controlled brake. But I will now, for sure. Thanks!
Great tips, except I don’t agree with you on the downhill recommendation for turning off the engine as an option, especially in the terrain you used as an example, there comes a time when you reach the bottom and in most cases off road you’re going to accelerate through the base of the hill in the same type of terrain or even through a stream, many times to go back up a hill, stopping to turn the engine back on will not be an option in most cases. Cheers from Abancay, Peru. Currently riding from northern Colombia to Argentine, mostly off/back roads, Honda XRE 300, dual sport.
Try that technique on Ophir pass. Every time you hit a rock it kicks your front end and the rock kicks out from rear tire. I dumped my 1290 3 times on that hill. Haven’t tried it on my t7 yet.
Another excellent and informative video Dusty, thanks! This is the first time I have heard anyone suggest turning the engine off and using the clutch for improved engine braking. Makes sense, but I'd be nervous to loose the ability to power over a mid decent obstacle or possibly pause to turn it back on. I will probably try it on an easy one though =) I've recently switched from a 2006 R1200GS to a 2021 Tiger 900RP, and have had to adjust my downhill technique to compensate for the slightly higher idle speed and less (perceived?) engine braking. The Tiger feels faster downhill...not uncomfortably so, just need to get used to it. Maybe it's just the 21" front tolls easier than the 19 =D Though I have not had as much off road time on the Tiger as I would have liked by now, I find it a lot easier to manage/handle in the dirt (and in sand!) than the GS.
All good stuff; thank you. With that said, has anyone performed a "study" regarding how rider weight shifting actually changes the weight on the tires? For example, put a scale under the front wheel and a scale under the rear wheel. While balanced (probably need some assistance), how many lbs/kgs are on each wheel? Then, what happens when the rider shifts their weight forward? Then back? It would be fascinating to know how much % change actually occurs.
Hey Mate, that's what I call "time loss". Get down and practice! With that said.... you'll feel the difference yourself (is big!). Once there, you won't give a damn on the weight scale indication! 😁 You need to be more of a "believer" when listening to Dusty's lessons!🤨 Instead of enquiring on "figures" behind his teaching, take advantage of his experience and thoroughly explained videos and.. -again- get on the track and practice! 🤷
Great vid...Thank you. Lots to think about depending where you are on the learning curve but becomes instinct with practice. Stand up, stay loose, keep er moving....and maybe start with a smaller bike 😉
Really enjoy and learn from your video's and thank you for your efforts to put out good content. One more thing, what is your tire combo in this video?
I think that foot position on some bikes, especially the GS, is horrible for size 12.5 and up. If you go just slightly back from the Arche, you are pushing down the side stand.
🙌 the tip of turning off the engine and feathering the clutch is a first for me,, and a dam fine technique. I'm a huge fan of engine braking. Thanks for sharing that 🙏🏻. Cheers 🍻, G.
This is a lifesaver on a steep downhill section with loose rocks and deep ruts. Dusty had a good video showing this as a combination of waddling down with the engine off and using very light throttle.
@@geraldjones8925 ,,🤣 I think waring out the brakes is not the issue. Falling down under a 500+ lb scooter is the real issue 😕🤌. But thats just my 2cents opinion...
This is an odd question, what motorcycle pants do you wear? They look hella comfortable. I don't like most 'ADV' gear as it looks like I'm going on a safari, I don't need all those pockets and being in Texas with 100+ Summers - cooling is an important consideration.
For me the trouble starts when that flat trail turns into a "V" shaped trough due to erosion. I often try to ride up on the side of the "V" but frequently slide down to the bottom of the trench where my wheels get trapped and give me balance problems. But I can usually struggle back up to the other side of the "V". Except for one time when I slid to the bottom and wound up in a "death wobble". The bike eventually went one way and I went the other, landing in boulders. Broke 4 ribs and popped a lung that time. But since I was riding alone I had to self rescue. That was 10 more miles of dirt and 20 more miles on pavement to the nearest hospital to find out what I had done to myself. I think the next time I encounter those conditions, I'll park the bike and get a sure-footed horse.
I can't ride on my arches of my feet, because my boots will ride the brake, and also hit up agaisn't the shifter.... I found out the hard way my boot was riding the brake on the highway few months ago (long expensive story btw).
I did one of these roads (wide but completely washed out to deep ruts an huge rocks) at around 400miles on my first bike a KTM 890. Hoooly shiiit, dropped my bike twice. Downhill was easy tho.
Hello," MatsPetterssonTravel" here ... and thanks for nice and instructive videos. Question: How do you fix the sound when you talk about your skills? I see you have a "Dead Cat" on your backpack, but how is that gear fixed. Which camera - which microphone do you use? I use in my helmet a micron when I drive, ,but I wonder how you get the sound in when you talk without a helmet. Thanks again ... /mats, Sweden
No - because you'll only being doing that for a very short time and travelling very slowly. If you are going faster than that there's no need to turn the engine off.
This hill makes me think it might be better to take the grass than that broken road lol. If the road were any worse I might even get off and check to see if the grass were hiding any obstructions
Me too, and I’ve overheated my rear brake going downhill in loose stuff for miles and miles. I think switching to manual and keeping it in first gear is the best option..
Try to learn all this stuff on a lighter bike. Trying to learn these techniques on a heavy bike. Just makes it harder than it needs to be, and your progress will be much slower.
Delete anxiety. Face your fear. It sounds so easy, but needs a lot of practice. And just when you've made it downhill, you crash on your next uphill ride...
Not sure its a good idea to turn off engine while descending on a modern motorcycles. I am basing my conclusion on a certain don't that manufacturer enforces, one of them is not to pushstart motorcycle. There is so much electronic controlled stuff happening that you basically may end with engine chain slip or valves bent.
I have a fully modern pgm-fi and can bus motorcycle. Tuareg 660. I regularly turn off my engine my during steeper descents. I often restart mid hill. Never had any electrical issues. As far as engine timing skipping on restart, that would only happen if there was a component failure that occurred at the same time as the restart such as a broken chain tensioner.
@@James-nc2ed Its good that your bike have no issues so far, but still theres strong 'don't' of manufacturer. Look in manual for panam for example. Its strictly forbidden to push-start/tow-start motorcycle. And I can imagine various situations why they forbid that, some of them may cause serious engine failures.
Hi, not sure about the engine off clutch control hill decent! That will really knock hell out of the clutch plate faces, basket etc. I can’t imagine anyone recommending slipping a clutch going up a hill for one or two hundred yards, very bad practice and this will have exactly the same effect, only in reverse, major reduction in clutch life 😢
DO NOT turn your engine off and go downhill on gear if you have carburetor. The engine without ignition will work as a pump. The gas will accumulate in exhaust and the second you turn on engine your exhaust will explode.
LoL. This is a good beginner's hill, and it looks fun at any rate. Want a hill that will challenge? Do the NEBDR, and take the hill that they say not to take on a big bike - and do it on a big bike. (Mine is an F800GSA; 30 min to get up the "hill," and a couple of hours to get down.)
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Many experienced off road riders will always stay in second on steep inclines and feather the clutch to control the rear tire. It is easier to control rear wheel spin in 2nd gear than in 1st gear. We've ridden thousands of miles of technical single track and learning that technique is a game changer. Also, as you hinted, momentum is always your friend when attacking hills. A little quicker approach speed in the beginning translates into easier riding near the top.
New to off-road riding...
If you spend a lot of time feathering the clutch under load, won't that wear it out prematurely?
@@Makermook I can't speak for motorcycles with dry clutches, but in my experience, wet-clutches can be slipped quite a bit in their service life. I currently have an africa twin with 33,000 miles and a lot of clutch slipping. My old KLR 650 had 59,000 miles on the original clutch when I sold it. I also have a klx250 and an xt250 with 13,000 and 18,000 respectively with many of those miles being offroad and plenty of clutch slipping. All original clutch plates and springs.
@@Makermook There is a difference between feathering the clutch at a reasonable rpm and burning the clutch. The clutch is a wear item. Wearing out prematurely is a concept created by riders who think the clutch is only slipped/feathered when starting from a complete stop. You will get years of riding use out of a clutch that is feathered and modulated. The throttle is used to control engine rpm, the clutch is used to control the power to the rear wheel. It is far easier to maintain a steady throttle position and feather the clutch while climbing technical hills than it is to try twisting the throttle to control the rear wheel while climbing a technical hill. A new rider will stall the engine because he is trying to twist the throttle while climbing. An experienced rider won't stall his engine even if he fails to make the climb because he keeps the RPMs up in the power range and feathers his clutch to control wheel spin and traction.
I was a huge fan of the Yamaha 125 in the 80's. After not riding for 25 years I thought I'd do the right thing and buy a Tiger 900 Rally Pro and took it on the AZ back road to Crown King. Before buying the Tiger I watched all of you videos and I think that may have saved me from certain insurance disability claims. I really need to take your class.
I did and can highly recommend
The theory given about descending with the engine off… brilliant.
This whole session has helped my anxiety levels.
Thank you
Another outstanding lesson. Dusty really understands how to ride these big ADV bikes off road. I’ve picked up a lot of really useful information.
I don't even own an offroad motorcycle. I just love Mototrek and these educational videos are outstanding to learn from for city riding too. Great job Mototrek Team and Dusty!!!
U get bored on the blacktop give it a try.jusy went back to off road after 40yrs and man,what a blast!
LOL
What a nice, comprehensive explanation, Dusty! Thank you very much for that!
I chose to listen to it twice, it really carries a lot of useful info, cannot afford to miss any of it 😊
One of the things I like about the GS is the ability in many situations to crawl up over sketchy terrain…it’s like a tractor with it’s torque, bottom end and gearing. After riding peaky low displacement two stroke dirt bikes in my youth and high horsepower in-line four street bikes since, I am continually impressed by the broad scope of capabilities my R1250GS possesses.
I'd never thought of using the engine off - what a great idea!
Awesome video! Wish I had seen it a couple weeks ago when I found myself forced to go up, then back down, the most challenging road I’ve ever ridden. Glad to see that I did some stuff right, but can also see things I could have done better.
Thanks!
This is by far the best Dusty video you folks have put together this far. Well done!
I am not sure if it's the content presentation or what but I found this remarkably well done. Somewhat new to a Big Africa Twin and this hit home.
Thanks!
Another thing about foot placement: When adding gas, toes down, when braking, heels down. This keeps the bike on your feet, not on your arms. This adds stability on hills; it takes a little practice, but keeps the bike from pulling or pushing you, as you're staying centered both on the bike and in the momentum of the bike.
I use the engine off technique all the time. Great advice about body position and using your knees to grip the bike going downhill. Too much weight on the bars causes fatigue and prevents you from absorbing deflections. One thing I'd add is that it's much easier to stop and rest going downhill than going uphill. If you lose your momentum going up it's much harder to get it back.
Thanks for this. In my neck of the woods, we get lots of these rocky trails, so this video is really useful. Thanks again.
Great tips. I live off-road in mountainous, rocky terrain in Mongolia. It's a mix of grassy and forested mountain terrain with loose and embedded rocks. I don't usually ride trails, I generally ride cross country. The hardest thing for me is traversing hills when the hills are 20-30 degrees and have loose rocks. I think this is called 'crabbing' or maybe just traversing. It's intense.
I also only ride lighter bikes because when I have tip-overs (pretty frequent), I need to pick up and position the bike on an awkward slope to get moving again. Lighter is better in this situation for picking up, avoiding injuries and getting pinned.
My bikes are 24kg (eMTB), 85kg (Surron Ultra Bee) and 132kg (Surron Storm Bee). My bikes are all electric too so that's entirely different from a controls point of view. I used to ride mid-weight and heavyweight adventure bikes but sold them because I don't find them suitable for my 100% off-road, technical riding terrain.
Nevertheless, your tips on body position, momentum and so on, are great and apply to my kind of riding. Thanks again.
Awesome advice! Hadn’t heard the engine off on decent before and using clutch. Going to try it next time 👍
Thanks! The engine OFF method only makes sense when the hill is VERY steep.
First gear also makes it a lot easier to whiskey throttle when you hit a big rock or ledge, whereas you can stall the engine in second if you don't keep revs up. I still prefer second gear because it's easier to control the throttle and to rely on torque to power up the hill.
Great tutorial as always. I would like to add that the best method of doing any of these things off road is to simply get out there and ride and learn what works take these lessons apply them and get out and ride. Don’t be afraid you don’t get the experience that Dusty has by only riding once in a while.
last weekend, I took my 1150GS up a hill trail I would have no issue with on my KTM or Suzuki, but that's a real different animal on the trail. Hoping to take your CA training in Oct. Thx for all the great videos.
Wish I saw this yesterday morning lol. Went down a trail yesterday I thought would be pretty tame. After all most of the trail was on google street view. That section that wasn’t was very steep up and back down. Several switch backs that didn’t level off one bit. But I didn’t. 1st gear and engine breaking, gentle rear and front breaking and lots of balancing got me back down safely.
Really interesting approach to conveying useful information in an easy to understand manner, and very encouraging to go out and do it. Nicely done. My two cents is that some mention of where to look (a reasonable distance ahead along the chosen line works well for me, and kind of naturally curtails target fixation). Also, when I first road a 1250 GSA off road I was amazed at how well the bike felt with the surface that would paralyze a road rider on a non-adventure bike. I now understand that these big adventure bikes are extremely capable of confidently rolling through the terraine of one’s well chosen path. Accepting bumps through the suspension travel and in one’s knees if standing inspires sure footed assurance. So pick the line, focus ahead as that line unfolds, and let the suspension deal with the ground beneath the tires because by the time you get there its too late to do much about it without perhaps radical clutch, brake, steering, peg pressure, throttle input. All the techniques he offers + practice are the ticket to smooth. 🙏☮️
Really like your videos can’t wait to hit the trail again soon.
I have a video suggestion: Trying light to medium offroading but with 90/10 street tires like Anakee 3s or something similar. Basically trying to build confidence in street tires and finding their limits offroad.
Great video as usual!
While I appreciate what you’re getting at, given the consequences of dropping machines like these big ADV bikes, my own conclusion has become to seek the best possible off road traction I can get, while preserving just enough street performance. I’m no longer interested in reducing my off road traction for the sake of learning. While I can imagine circumstances and riders for whom trying street tires in the dirt may be helpful, under extremely controlled conditions, that is too risky, in my opinion, as a general recommendation.
I got Shinko 705's on the front and rear and i can keep up just fine with my buddy with his knobby Dunlop's on this kind of terrain. The Shinko's are just way better on pavement. Both on 2nd gen Kawasaki KLR 650. The big difference is on grass or mud, then the knobbies are a must
Momentum, momentum and look done the line.
Thank you for another great video. I fully support your techniques for going uphill. On the other hand, I have some issues with your downhill ideas. Firstly, I prefer to ride my 1290 KTM (approx the same weight as the GS) on steep downhills rather slower than faster. It is always easier to add speed than break. Secondly,, turning off the engine and work with the clutch works only on very short downhill situations. If you go downhill for a couple of miles you will destroy your clutch. I did use it on a 300 EXC, though. In the woods, walking next to my bike since it was too steep to ride (the front break has already overheated). On the ADV I prefer the engine break and additional the front break if necessary, but the key point for me is, go as slow as possible in the beginning to get comfortable with the terrain. If there is suddenly a tight corner or a log or something like this, it is easier for me to handle the situation.
However, I thank you for the videos and lessons you provide. All the best from Austria, EU (the home of KTM 🧡)
Another great video about my most-dreaded aspect of off-roading. We shall try to implement the lesson in hopes of arriving at the bottom of gnarly hills with slightly less solid underpants than is currently the case. Great video, great technique, many thanks for posting.
As always, good quality.
Great video. I feel like I learned something that has expanded my understanding of motorcycles. I was also the 1K like!
Thanks! I have less of a problem uphill as down. On a steep, rocky downhill, a GS can become a runaway freight train. It never occurred to me to turn off the engine. I'll be sure to stick that in my repertoire.
wow .. thank you nice lesson ..
Sadly, the camera doesn't do justice to the gnarlyness of that hill.
That’s what I’m thinking. It would be interesting to see a comparison using 1st vs 2nd downhill. He’s going pretty quick downhill idk.
Always love going over these technique videos. What's interesting to me now is that I've been taking my 250cc Suzuki cruiser up a hill like this, on my way to work. Body position is very hard to manage on forward controls.
Fun video with useful info. That looks like a really fun trail!
Could you please say where these trails are? Even if only in the description.
Great clip, and I'd never considered killing the motor, and using the clutch as a more nuanced, left-hand controlled brake. But I will now, for sure. Thanks!
Excellent video 👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 great explanations on how you do it.
Thank you! 👍
I love that his channel is active again, I got a question about this video, in a loose gravel downhill, would it help to turn off ABS function?
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Great tips, except I don’t agree with you on the downhill recommendation for turning off the engine as an option, especially in the terrain you used as an example, there comes a time when you reach the bottom and in most cases off road you’re going to accelerate through the base of the hill in the same type of terrain or even through a stream, many times to go back up a hill, stopping to turn the engine back on will not be an option in most cases. Cheers from Abancay, Peru. Currently riding from northern Colombia to Argentine, mostly off/back roads, Honda XRE 300, dual sport.
Exactly what I needed - thank you 🙏
What techniques are helpful if the road was abused by 4x4 vehicles and has the usual bumps and undulations?
Try that technique on Ophir pass. Every time you hit a rock it kicks your front end and the rock kicks out from rear tire. I dumped my 1290 3 times on that hill. Haven’t tried it on my t7 yet.
Hay Dusty....what base layer (armour ?) are you using-wearing?....noticed the thumb loops...Another great video! All the best from CANADA!
Such great info! Thanks!
Another excellent and informative video Dusty, thanks! This is the first time I have heard anyone suggest turning the engine off and using the clutch for improved engine braking. Makes sense, but I'd be nervous to loose the ability to power over a mid decent obstacle or possibly pause to turn it back on. I will probably try it on an easy one though =) I've recently switched from a 2006 R1200GS to a 2021 Tiger 900RP, and have had to adjust my downhill technique to compensate for the slightly higher idle speed and less (perceived?) engine braking. The Tiger feels faster downhill...not uncomfortably so, just need to get used to it. Maybe it's just the 21" front tolls easier than the 19 =D Though I have not had as much off road time on the Tiger as I would have liked by now, I find it a lot easier to manage/handle in the dirt (and in sand!) than the GS.
The engine off is only really helpful on VERY steep descents. Have a look at this video: th-cam.com/video/sqWbMOZ4DOA/w-d-xo.html
AMAZING CONTENT !!! thanks for sharing all of this !!
Great lesson. Thanks. 🎉
All good stuff; thank you.
With that said, has anyone performed a "study" regarding how rider weight shifting actually changes the weight on the tires? For example, put a scale under the front wheel and a scale under the rear wheel. While balanced (probably need some assistance), how many lbs/kgs are on each wheel? Then, what happens when the rider shifts their weight forward? Then back? It would be fascinating to know how much % change actually occurs.
Hey Mate, that's what I call "time loss". Get down and practice!
With that said.... you'll feel the difference yourself (is big!). Once there, you won't give a damn on the weight scale indication! 😁
You need to be more of a "believer" when listening to Dusty's lessons!🤨 Instead of enquiring on "figures" behind his teaching, take advantage of his experience and thoroughly explained videos and..
-again- get on the track and practice! 🤷
We all look forward to watching your instructional videos, nmgsa3989.
Great vid...Thank you. Lots to think about depending where you are on the learning curve but becomes instinct with practice. Stand up, stay loose, keep er moving....and maybe start with a smaller bike 😉
You don’t recommend modulating the torque with your clutch?…a habit I keep from riding 2 stroke bikes
Thanks dusty, that peg weighting is so effective
Turn the engine off going downhill and use the clutch.... wow... learned something completely new! Thankyou!
Really enjoy and learn from your video's and thank you for your efforts to put out good content. One more thing, what is your tire combo in this video?
Muy bien explicado, con todo detalle, gracias!!!
I think that foot position on some bikes, especially the GS, is horrible for size 12.5 and up. If you go just slightly back from the Arche, you are pushing down the side stand.
Yeah, I wear a 13. I found that particularly annoying when I temporarily replaced my 2006 GS with a 2017 GSA. My Tiger has much better foot ergos.
🙌 the tip of turning off the engine and feathering the clutch is a first for me,, and a dam fine technique. I'm a huge fan of engine braking. Thanks for sharing that 🙏🏻.
Cheers 🍻, G.
Right on!
Keeps your brakes cool and unworn on those very long descent
This is a lifesaver on a steep downhill section with loose rocks and deep ruts. Dusty had a good video showing this as a combination of waddling down with the engine off and using very light throttle.
@@geraldjones8925 ,,🤣 I think waring out the brakes is not the issue. Falling down under a 500+ lb scooter is the real issue 😕🤌.
But thats just my 2cents opinion...
I am fearful if the engine is off for this technique and I suddenly need to turn on the engine. It will be a daunting task.
Muito agradecido pelos ensinamentos. Você é o cara! Muito bom.
Great video! The gear choice has more to do with the bike's power.
What shocks are you rocking on that GSA, Dusty?
Great stuff as usual!
This is an odd question, what motorcycle pants do you wear? They look hella comfortable. I don't like most 'ADV' gear as it looks like I'm going on a safari, I don't need all those pockets and being in Texas with 100+ Summers - cooling is an important consideration.
👍Thanks for the tips!
Fantastic explanation, Thanks to Italy.
For me the trouble starts when that flat trail turns into a "V" shaped trough due to erosion. I often try to ride up on the side of the "V" but frequently slide down to the bottom of the trench where my wheels get trapped and give me balance problems. But I can usually struggle back up to the other side of the "V". Except for one time when I slid to the bottom and wound up in a "death wobble". The bike eventually went one way and I went the other, landing in boulders. Broke 4 ribs and popped a lung that time. But since I was riding alone I had to self rescue. That was 10 more miles of dirt and 20 more miles on pavement to the nearest hospital to find out what I had done to myself. I think the next time I encounter those conditions, I'll park the bike and get a sure-footed horse.
Jeez 😬
WHICH GEAR downhill using the clutch method (engine off)? I guess it depends on the slope, but where to start if unsure?
thank you again, great lesson.
Very helpful.Thanks!!
What tires do you recommend for a GS doing the Idaho BDR?
Thanks Dusty!
I can't ride on my arches of my feet, because my boots will ride the brake, and also hit up agaisn't the shifter.... I found out the hard way my boot was riding the brake on the highway few months ago (long expensive story btw).
Thanks for your lessons. Great stuff. Günter/Nürnberg
I did one of these roads (wide but completely washed out to deep ruts an huge rocks) at around 400miles on my first bike a KTM 890.
Hoooly shiiit, dropped my bike twice.
Downhill was easy tho.
Dusty! You’re back on a GSA!? I thought you were sold on the smaller GS?
Dusty borrowed this GSA while we filmed in WA.
Hello," MatsPetterssonTravel" here ... and thanks for nice and instructive videos.
Question: How do you fix the sound when you talk about your skills? I see you have a "Dead Cat" on your backpack, but how is that gear fixed. Which camera - which microphone do you use? I use in my helmet a micron when I drive, ,but I wonder how you get the sound in when you talk without a helmet. Thanks again ... /mats, Sweden
All the voice in this episode was recorded with a Countryman B3 lave into a Tascam DR10-L recorder.
Very good advice actually that even works on smaller and lighter bikes also
Awesome tips!
Good advice!
Would the downhill with engine off and riding the clutch cook the clutch?
No - because you'll only being doing that for a very short time and travelling very slowly. If you are going faster than that there's no need to turn the engine off.
Downhill, wet, washed out cobble size rocks?
What I always understand is when you put this big bikes in gear end cut off the engine you can bend your valves
This hill makes me think it might be better to take the grass than that broken road lol. If the road were any worse I might even get off and check to see if the grass were hiding any obstructions
with engine off technique: is there a preferred gear to be in?
hi, do i need to release some tire pressure during down lose rock hill?
What gear would you use for engine off method, steep compared to less steep?
I have the same question. I'm scanning thru the comments looking for an answer. No luck.
Hey i have an issue while up hill climb.. my lower back pains
Clutch? what clutch? :D owner of Honda AT AS ;)
😂
Me too, and I’ve overheated my rear brake going downhill in loose stuff for miles and miles. I think switching to manual and keeping it in first gear is the best option..
@@anothernuther I bought and install leaver for changing gears as normal one ;) so I'm switching to manual too and use foot to change gear.
Top always👏🏼👏🏼💪🏼
🔥🔥🔥
Try to learn all this stuff on a lighter bike. Trying to learn these techniques on a heavy bike. Just makes it harder than it needs to be, and your progress will be much slower.
Delete anxiety. Face your fear. It sounds so easy, but needs a lot of practice. And just when you've made it downhill, you crash on your next uphill ride...
Tires make or break offroading for sure
Not sure its a good idea to turn off engine while descending on a modern motorcycles. I am basing my conclusion on a certain don't that manufacturer enforces, one of them is not to pushstart motorcycle. There is so much electronic controlled stuff happening that you basically may end with engine chain slip or valves bent.
I have a fully modern pgm-fi and can bus motorcycle. Tuareg 660. I regularly turn off my engine my during steeper descents. I often restart mid hill. Never had any electrical issues. As far as engine timing skipping on restart, that would only happen if there was a component failure that occurred at the same time as the restart such as a broken chain tensioner.
@@James-nc2ed Its good that your bike have no issues so far, but still theres strong 'don't' of manufacturer. Look in manual for panam for example. Its strictly forbidden to push-start/tow-start motorcycle.
And I can imagine various situations why they forbid that, some of them may cause serious engine failures.
top!
👍
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Hi, not sure about the engine off clutch control hill decent! That will really knock hell out of the clutch plate faces, basket etc. I can’t imagine anyone recommending slipping a clutch going up a hill for one or two hundred yards, very bad practice and this will have exactly the same effect, only in reverse, major reduction in clutch life 😢
@@markwetton7431these bikes were meant to be beat on
DO NOT turn your engine off and go downhill on gear if you have carburetor. The engine without ignition will work as a pump. The gas will accumulate in exhaust and the second you turn on engine your exhaust will explode.
Damn really?
I would have never thought of that tbh but im no bike expert
Yeah pretty cool 👍
I had zero issues w my Gen 1 KLR.
like a bomb right 😂
Actually with the throttle closed the fuel going thru is very minimal and for short distances will not do any harm or fowling.
What hill?
LoL. This is a good beginner's hill, and it looks fun at any rate.
Want a hill that will challenge? Do the NEBDR, and take the hill that they say not to take on a big bike - and do it on a big bike. (Mine is an F800GSA; 30 min to get up the "hill," and a couple of hours to get down.)
Which do you want to replace, brake pads or clutch discs??? 😮
The clutch is not going to wear out from engine braking on slow speed descents.
@@MOTOTREK yeah it won't as long as its stays in engaged position. Not when you're constantly playing with clutch lever
I Have a friend in a level two trauma hospital he got talked into a adventure. Now he's in a coma don't play with it. Think about it.😮
to start with why ride such a heavy pig ? if you have to go to roads like these...