Back in the day v cube was a dictator who wanted everyone to only use their cubes, they sued everyone! If you got here after 2015 you got in to a nicer era of cubing.
@@elrockerchido It's still kind of fun though to come back to this every so often because the controversies of both the V-Cubes 3 and 4 are kind of a major part of cubing history. Granted, I started cubing in late 2013, on the very tail-end of it all so I didn't get to see happen in real time, but it's still interesting regardless, even now a decade later.
Well VCubeSolver's question seems to be a hypothetical question disregarding the fact that it already is a complete KO. So I answered it as such. I'm calling the V-Cube 4 a partial KO because only part of the cube uses XB27's design. The spherical & conical designs are original. That would make it, in the simplest terms, 1/3rd KO.
Look, mmap, I'm saying this right now. I have a lot of respect for you, your Megaminx tutorial was the only one that helped me, but my respect level has gone down. X-cubes are completely original, and you just assumed that they weren't. And when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME
Yeah, if Dan had cited sources that it would've made it easier on me researching my video. (Not that I would've expected him too, or any TH-camr for that matter.) So figured it would be good idea to start doing this for controversial videos.
I appreciate your support, but as I said in the beginning of the video, there are significant differences between my mod & XB27's alignment mechanism to reasonably conclude they are different mods. Plus he never said my mod was bad. On the contrary, he praised me for it.
I understand that using legit cubes in competitions wouldn't be well accepted, especially for the top speed cubers. And it's probably true that someone else would've come up with the V-Cube design eventually. But after over 20 years, V-Cubes was the first to release the design. So my stance in supporting V-Cubes remains. (Plus it took several years for Shengshou to perfect the design, so I'm confident the quality of cubes wouldn't be close to where it is now if it wasn't for V-Cubes.)
Good question. First off, the X-Cube never used anything from the Shengshou initially. 2nd, I would only classify it as a partial knockoff, which is what the V-Cube 4, disregarding everything else, seems to be.
V cubes dont deserve the recognition that they get they have demolished smaller companies for simply make a puzzle for people to enjoy what company does that
Well I can't say the same for you, but when I've talked to people about the plot, they all sympathized with father & would have done the same thing if they were in his shoes. That's why I used it as an example.
I really appreciate the time and effort you and crazy bad cuber have put in to this. This is a topic I have been interested in for a long time and this video solved so many riddles. Thank you very much! Keep up the great work! :)
You'd think so, but some people don't think that way. Dan, in fact, wanted to collaborate with me, but cut off any intentions of doing so when he learned my views on homosexuality. Some people just aren't willing to work together.
True Shengshou does seem to targets speedcubers more than V-Cubes, & it's also true that the pieces of Shengshou do have some differences from the V-Cube. However, I don't see those reasons as being significant enough to declassify Shengshou from it's knockoff status.
I understand you're reasoning. It's certainly a lot easier not to have to think about this stuff. But the moment you have someone profiting from your hard work, (like RedKB) you'd think otherwise.
Sure that sounds ridiculous. That's why patents expire after around 20 years. That give's time for the original inventor to profit off of it, then when he's had his chance, allows others to improve on it later.
Probably for the same reasons Dan isn't willing to ever collaborate with me. Conflict is a recurring problem around the world, & most people aren't willing to deal with it.
WAIT!!! one more thing to deal with!! Dan clearly stated that XB27 clearly stated that he ALSO did not know a specific patent was out for the 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 V-cubes. When he made the first prototype, he would have used the eastsheen as a base is v-cubes did not come out. so his improved cylindrical design would have allowed for a 5x5. so Verdes really did not need to deal with the cubing comunity Alll he did was make a conical design that allowed pillowed cubes to take place
Guys Pi should make a video every month on the 14th that would be a good idea. It would give him some space only 12 videos a year but still give us the videos we want. Don't complain that he does not make videos often enough just give him the credit he deserves. He makes high quality videos and SHOULD NOT be hated for not making them that often... so I think that 1 video every month on the 14th would be perfect. Get it 3. 14 the 14th. Thumbs up so he can see.
I completely agree with you. I would give a like for every word you said. I recently got into cubing although I had known about this V-Cube X-Cube controversy. Thank you for helping in getting the community out of this controversy. I hope they calm down
Yeah, that's a toughy. My personal opinion is that you can, it just gets really complicated. But it seems too complicated in the case with the Dayan Guhong. Since there are SO many variations of 3x3s out there, along with that it didn't use the spherical design, plus the original patent not technically covering the V-Cube that came after the Guhong, it seems to hard for me to judge one way or another.
I agree that ShengShou is a knockoff, but part of the love for V-Cubes is that they're a brand name with a fancy logo and highly recognizable puzzles, just like fancy designer clothing that costs twenty bucks more for the logo. I think that's why they always have pillowed options for puzzles. It's their signature look.
I've only known how to solve a cube for 4 days and I'm learning F2L etc... and my best time is 1:20 on a rubiks brand with a lot of friction and no lube. Is that good?
I looked down through all the comments because I don't have much of a life and it's summer, and amidst all this controversy all I could think about was how funny it was that CBC replied to himself saying "I agree!"
v-cubes really did a lot for the whole hobby. But then, there is one thing that did even more for cubing than what v-cubes did, and that is 3d printing and 3d simulation. That may be the reason why the v-cube design idea lay dormant for so long, prototyping may have been prohibitively expensive and difficult. it is too bad that patents are often in the way when it comes to fusing different designs in an attempt to reach perfection. Fusing 2 or 3 good ideas will be necessary down the road.
get the eastsheen set, consisting of 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5. They are far from perfect, but they are original designs, no knockoffs, and dirt cheap. in 3x3 you have hundreds to choose from, maybe get a ghost hand 2. Then, definitively get the v-cube 7. that gets you a very cheap but worth having set of 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 and 7x7. From there, just upgrade, infinite choices, maybe v-cube 2, 4 and 5, and mefferts 4, different speed 3x3s, maybe a knockoff 9x9 or 11x11.
I remember coming across a post on twistypuzzles form. The post was was created back in 2004 3 years before V-Cubes. The post was about making a working 7x7. the 7x7 was made from a Eastsheen 5x5. the cuber extended the 5x5 into a cubic 7x7. I can't remember if you commented on that post.
I have almost all of the squares aligned, all I have to do now is the Allan algorithm. The only problem is my cube is an exception, where the last middle blue cube in the top layer is on the green side, and the last green cube in the top layer is on the blue side. The same is for the red and the orange cubes. They are all on the opposite side of where they need to be. Does anyone know what algorithm to use for this case?
He used to make videos quite often, and in each one you could really see all the effort he put into it. Now he just makes them every once in a while and doesn't put nearly as much work into them as he does with his Minecraft videos. The fans got especially upset when he posted his previous video which was openly taunting everyone who was upset. I would understand if he was getting less interested in cubing, but it would be nice to hear him at least say so instead of stringing everyone along.
This is my opinion, please don't judge me or anyone else for their opinions. I think that people are making to big of a deal. It is just a toy! I don't think Erno Rubik likes us fighting over what he meant to be fun. So, can we all just drop this and move one with our lives?
Nate Johnson I'm afraid to say that this might still be going, after all, if people can find something to whine about, they will. Also, I will say that I agree with you on the matter.
I want to know if the DaYan company has patents. Dan says that that company has patents for all of its cubes, but I am not sure about that. I am trying to find out whether or not the v-cube 3 is a knockoff of the dayan guhong. Geometrically, the v-cube 3 uses the same combination of the cylindrical and conical designs.
Okay, I respect that By the way, can the cones be justified bythe Eastsheen corners having a sort of slanted profile for the base? I mean, they could have used a corner similar to the Rubik's one...
I will agree with you that vcubes mechanism for their 6x6 has revolutionized the cubing world because of how handy designers have used it to create amazing cubes such as the 4x4x6 and the 4x5x6. Even though shengshou is a "knock-off" it has still improved on the mechanism. That is why civets like it so much more and for the price too
if i'm right V-cubes intention is more to sell cubes to the public and become a well known brand just as Rubik's is, so i don't think cubes like the shengshou cubes should be viewed in such a negative way, v-cubes have said that their cubes aren't aimed at speedsolvers, but if they want to use them then great! whereas shengshou for example are aimed mostly at speedsolvers and the similarities between the cubes aren't big enough for me to consider them a knock off or even negative to vcubes.
Guys, I just wanted to suggest that Billy used a lot of time to making this video (Dan too :) ) so we shouldn't be picking on Bill and forcing him to upload videos for us all the time. Billy has school, his own private business, another minecraft channel and this channel to take care of. Guys, that's a lot so we should really be looking things at Bill's point of view before we submit comments telling Bill to upload more and more videos. Bill, keep up the great work on your videos :)
I thanks Verdes for the higher order cubes and how it worked out, and plus pi's mod on the V6, it was a great enjoyment! But since the V3 came out, all the controversy was flying here and there, i see the point of what dan had say in his video when he asked V-Cube on the design. "The fact that are copying 100% our mechanism and then add some small rounds or mods does not make them legitimate"(taken from dan's cubes vs cubes video @ 07:05) from this, V-cube did this yet claiming they are legal..
Actually, yes it is. The patents cover the puzzles as a whole yes, but they also cover individual pieces, curves, properties that allow stability such as alignment mechanisms and many more. If it's in the patent, the patent owner owns it. Just because somebody didn't use the entire puzzle completely doesn't mean they didn't steal some of the design. Please learn stuff.
i think that both CrazyBadCuber and you made some really good points. It definately gives me a new perspective on this situation. Kudos to both of you for putting in the time and effort to enlighten us on the situation.
You make understanding mechanisms much harder and complicated than it should be. If you examine the cross sections side by side of all the 4x4's you reference in the video, it is apparent that they are all extremely similar. There is just not a lot of variation when it comes down to fundamental geometry. That's why I think to patent any mechanism is a very touchy topic. I can make a video better explaining this idea if that would help people.
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m watching this in 2017 and none of these cubes are even relevant anymore.
CUBED in 2018, I feel like a cubing archaeologist.
And I thought I was a new Cuber. A lot of kids now don't even know who MMAP is.
In 2019, I am here
Back in the day v cube was a dictator who wanted everyone to only use their cubes, they sued everyone! If you got here after 2015 you got in to a nicer era of cubing.
@@elrockerchido It's still kind of fun though to come back to this every so often because the controversies of both the V-Cubes 3 and 4 are kind of a major part of cubing history. Granted, I started cubing in late 2013, on the very tail-end of it all so I didn't get to see happen in real time, but it's still interesting regardless, even now a decade later.
lets just skip all this and get an aosu
lol!
genius
+Mikus Haikus You do realise this comment is 11 years old?
+AG Cuber are you dumb
+Ag Cuber 1 YEAR
That still doesn't give v-cube any reason to be a jerk to crazy bad cuber
Well VCubeSolver's question seems to be a hypothetical question disregarding the fact that it already is a complete KO. So I answered it as such.
I'm calling the V-Cube 4 a partial KO because only part of the cube uses XB27's design. The spherical & conical designs are original. That would make it, in the simplest terms, 1/3rd KO.
i think vcube pays him to fanboy their cubes
agreed
True.
yes
Back in the day we all mock MMAP for this (rightly assumed) meme.
Look, mmap, I'm saying this right now. I have a lot of respect for you, your Megaminx tutorial was the only one that helped me, but my respect level has gone down. X-cubes are completely original, and you just assumed that they weren't. And when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME
Zach Lesk V-cube came before X-cube
Won't make any promises, but I do miss the time when I made videos regularly.
Yeah, if Dan had cited sources that it would've made it easier on me researching my video. (Not that I would've expected him too, or any TH-camr for that matter.) So figured it would be good idea to start doing this for controversial videos.
I appreciate your support, but as I said in the beginning of the video, there are significant differences between my mod & XB27's alignment mechanism to reasonably conclude they are different mods. Plus he never said my mod was bad. On the contrary, he praised me for it.
Actually, he blocked me. His messages would've been deleted otherwise.
I understand that using legit cubes in competitions wouldn't be well accepted, especially for the top speed cubers. And it's probably true that someone else would've come up with the V-Cube design eventually. But after over 20 years, V-Cubes was the first to release the design. So my stance in supporting V-Cubes remains.
(Plus it took several years for Shengshou to perfect the design, so I'm confident the quality of cubes wouldn't be close to where it is now if it wasn't for V-Cubes.)
Good question. First off, the X-Cube never used anything from the Shengshou initially. 2nd, I would only classify it as a partial knockoff, which is what the V-Cube 4, disregarding everything else, seems to be.
V cubes dont deserve the recognition that they get they have demolished smaller companies for simply make a puzzle for people to enjoy what company does that
yea fuck v cubes dude. so mean to crazybad, young companies should have good customer service
I won't make any promises, but I certainly hope so!
Well I can't say the same for you, but when I've talked to people about the plot, they all sympathized with father & would have done the same thing if they were in his shoes. That's why I used it as an example.
Thanks, Dan!
I really appreciate the time and effort you and crazy bad cuber have put in to this. This is a topic I have been interested in for a long time and this video solved so many riddles. Thank you very much! Keep up the great work! :)
Yep, plus a new stand alone mic. Thanks to thriving Minecraft channel/server ;)
Yeah eventually, I was able to too. However, it was MUCH harder on the unmodified side.
You'd think so, but some people don't think that way. Dan, in fact, wanted to collaborate with me, but cut off any intentions of doing so when he learned my views on homosexuality. Some people just aren't willing to work together.
True Shengshou does seem to targets speedcubers more than V-Cubes, & it's also true that the pieces of Shengshou do have some differences from the V-Cube. However, I don't see those reasons as being significant enough to declassify Shengshou from it's knockoff status.
No, I got cubes such as Shengshou so I could study the mechanism. In no way would I ever encourage buying one.
Thanks!
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I like pi...
Wrong 😭
Philip Robertson
e
ShadowCooper77 I do like that, too. But I was talking about the greek symbol pi.
Philip Robertson
Ik
I understand you're reasoning. It's certainly a lot easier not to have to think about this stuff. But the moment you have someone profiting from your hard work, (like RedKB) you'd think otherwise.
Same for me.
And also congratz on your come back in youtube :)
I'm happy to see a video from you!
Sure that sounds ridiculous. That's why patents expire after around 20 years. That give's time for the original inventor to profit off of it, then when he's had his chance, allows others to improve on it later.
Probably for the same reasons Dan isn't willing to ever collaborate with me. Conflict is a recurring problem around the world, & most people aren't willing to deal with it.
If V cubes didn't exist, I'm sure that there wouldn't be need for this stupid argument
If v cube didn't exist then we wouldn't be where we are
So what cubes do you recommend? I am a new cuber and am trying to expand my collection of cubes. Please reply. Thanks.
WAIT!!! one more thing to deal with!!
Dan clearly stated that XB27 clearly stated that he ALSO did not know a specific patent was out for the 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 V-cubes.
When he made the first prototype, he would have used the eastsheen as a base is v-cubes did not come out.
so his improved cylindrical design would have allowed for a 5x5. so Verdes really did not need to deal with the cubing comunity Alll he did was make a conical design that allowed pillowed cubes to take place
Pi, what's your opinion on the Dayan 2x2? The cube is basically a Zhanchi with a 2x2 shell.
Guys Pi should make a video every month on the 14th that would be a good idea.
It would give him some space only 12 videos a year but still give us the videos we want.
Don't complain that he does not make videos often enough just give him the credit he deserves.
He makes high quality videos and SHOULD NOT be hated for not making them that often... so I think that 1 video every month on the 14th would be perfect.
Get it 3. 14 the 14th.
Thumbs up so he can see.
I completely agree with you. I would give a like for every word you said. I recently got into cubing although I had known about this V-Cube X-Cube controversy. Thank you for helping in getting the community out of this controversy. I hope they calm down
Yeah, that's a toughy. My personal opinion is that you can, it just gets really complicated. But it seems too complicated in the case with the Dayan Guhong. Since there are SO many variations of 3x3s out there, along with that it didn't use the spherical design, plus the original patent not technically covering the V-Cube that came after the Guhong, it seems to hard for me to judge one way or another.
Hmm, well not sure I did anything wrong, it just didn't turn well for me...
If it fused a LOT of cube together, then it might be considered fair use. Might.
Pi, I am looking for a good (not highly expensive) 4x4 cubes. any suggestions?
"I don't want you to buy this puzzle, but i'm gonna show you how well it turns". LOL
I agree that ShengShou is a knockoff, but part of the love for V-Cubes is that they're a brand name with a fancy logo and highly recognizable puzzles, just like fancy designer clothing that costs twenty bucks more for the logo. I think that's why they always have pillowed options for puzzles. It's their signature look.
This video is a knock off of crazybadcubers video
matt sorenson But we can't judge it by how it looks. We must judge it GEOMETRICALLY.
Yeah, but the majority of people that watch TH-cam are in the US.
I've only known how to solve a cube for 4 days and I'm learning F2L etc... and my best time is 1:20 on a rubiks brand with a lot of friction and no lube. Is that good?
I looked down through all the comments because I don't have much of a life and it's summer, and amidst all this controversy all I could think about was how funny it was that CBC replied to himself saying "I agree!"
v-cubes really did a lot for the whole hobby. But then, there is one thing that did even more for cubing than what v-cubes did, and that is 3d printing and 3d simulation. That may be the reason why the v-cube design idea lay dormant for so long, prototyping may have been prohibitively expensive and difficult.
it is too bad that patents are often in the way when it comes to fusing different designs in an attempt to reach perfection. Fusing 2 or 3 good ideas will be necessary down the road.
watching in 2020 and i truly wonder where you are today
gaming channel, MMAPGaming
Both your and CrazyBadCuber's videos must have took SO long to make so i applaude you for putting the effort into uploading this video.
get the eastsheen set, consisting of 2x2, 4x4 and 5x5. They are far from perfect, but they are original designs, no knockoffs, and dirt cheap.
in 3x3 you have hundreds to choose from, maybe get a ghost hand 2. Then, definitively get the v-cube 7.
that gets you a very cheap but worth having set of 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 and 7x7. From there, just upgrade, infinite choices, maybe v-cube 2, 4 and 5, and mefferts 4, different speed 3x3s, maybe a knockoff 9x9 or 11x11.
lol, neither did I!
I never saw Crazybadcubers video but I can tell that this had been a big debate, good job
I remember coming across a post on twistypuzzles form. The post was was created back in 2004 3 years before V-Cubes. The post was about making a working 7x7. the 7x7 was made from a Eastsheen 5x5. the cuber extended the 5x5 into a cubic 7x7. I can't remember if you commented on that post.
I have almost all of the squares aligned, all I have to do now is the Allan algorithm. The only problem is my cube is an exception, where the last middle blue cube in the top layer is on the green side, and the last green cube in the top layer is on the blue side. The same is for the red and the orange cubes. They are all on the opposite side of where they need to be. Does anyone know what algorithm to use for this case?
Everyone, I urge you to completely take back what you said, because at least he made a video.
i dont think any of the three or four cubes are knockoffs of eachother at all they just might look similar
He used to make videos quite often, and in each one you could really see all the effort he put into it.
Now he just makes them every once in a while and doesn't put nearly as much work into them as he does with his Minecraft videos.
The fans got especially upset when he posted his previous video which was openly taunting everyone who was upset.
I would understand if he was getting less interested in cubing, but it would be nice to hear him at least say so instead of stringing everyone along.
yes a video!!! thx so much pi!
Can you start posting more vids on this channel?
Thanks for responding twice in a day. Thumbs up for my Memyselfandpi Fan Club!
Finally new videos came!
This is my opinion, please don't judge me or anyone else for their opinions. I think that people are making to big of a deal. It is just a toy! I don't think Erno Rubik likes us fighting over what he meant to be fun. So, can we all just drop this and move one with our lives?
Nate Johnson Our has everybody already moved on?
Nate Johnson I'm afraid to say that this might still be going, after all, if people can find something to whine about, they will. Also, I will say that I agree with you on the matter.
I agree with you Erno made a small toy now look at these sophisticated video
you said that you will be uploading daily videos :\
On TH-cam's statistics page it says 70% of TH-cam traffic comes from outside the US
could you make a tutorial of your way to make a rubik's cube ? pls
... It's been a month with no vids...
I want to know if the DaYan company has patents. Dan says that that company has patents for all of its cubes, but I am not sure about that. I am trying to find out whether or not the v-cube 3 is a knockoff of the dayan guhong. Geometrically, the v-cube 3 uses the same combination of the cylindrical and conical designs.
from What I'm getting from you I take it that X fused eastsheen and V. Wouldn't that make it new?
You have a good point,Billy.I appreciate your effort and work.
Why unsub? It's just a little joke. He not threatening people, or demanding personal info. Just a joke people. No need to take is personally.
Just look at US patent law. Improving an existing invention is something you can patent.
where do you buy xb27s cube
Awesome video and job on that, thank for all this information, the likes you are getting are very well deserved :)
Combining the designs of 2 puzzles is NOT a knockoff.
Okay, I respect that
By the way, can the cones be justified bythe Eastsheen corners having a sort of slanted profile for the base? I mean, they could have used a corner similar to the Rubik's one...
I will agree with you that vcubes mechanism for their 6x6 has revolutionized the cubing world because of how handy designers have used it to create amazing cubes such as the 4x4x6 and the 4x5x6. Even though shengshou is a "knock-off" it has still improved on the mechanism. That is why civets like it so much more and for the price too
if i'm right V-cubes intention is more to sell cubes to the public and become a well known brand just as Rubik's is, so i don't think cubes like the shengshou cubes should be viewed in such a negative way, v-cubes have said that their cubes aren't aimed at speedsolvers, but if they want to use them then great! whereas shengshou for example are aimed mostly at speedsolvers and the similarities between the cubes aren't big enough for me to consider them a knock off or even negative to vcubes.
Do my eyes deceive me? A NEW VIDEO, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!
You started dailly videos?
Wait, so are you going to review some cubes you were reluctant to do so previously?
Do you have a new camera?
Wow, I just learned so much, I really did. Great video Pi!! :)
Guys, I just wanted to suggest that Billy used a lot of time to making this video (Dan too :) ) so we shouldn't be picking on Bill and forcing him to upload videos for us all the time. Billy has school, his own private business, another minecraft channel and this channel to take care of. Guys, that's a lot so we should really be looking things at Bill's point of view before we submit comments telling Bill to upload more and more videos. Bill, keep up the great work on your videos :)
My point is that if in the US courts it is considered ethical, I consider it ethical.
pi what time when you play minecraft it been 6 days
do you play minecraft? if so were you on the OneCameron server the other day?
I thought you said you would make one video every day?
i like pudding
lol
Irrelevant
Awesome
should I get an V cube 4 pillowed is it good?
I thanks Verdes for the higher order cubes and how it worked out, and plus pi's mod on the V6, it was a great enjoyment! But since the V3 came out, all the controversy was flying here and there, i see the point of what dan had say in his video when he asked V-Cube on the design. "The fact that are copying 100% our mechanism and then add some small rounds or mods does not make them legitimate"(taken from dan's cubes vs cubes video @ 07:05) from this, V-cube did this yet claiming they are legal..
Where are cubeing Videos
Where is the v cube 4 flat review
Ya know, when I started messing around with cubes years ago I never imagined there would end-up being so much drama involved.
Did v-cube still use your mechanism
are you going to make videos regulary
However, I am slightly relieved that your perspective is not as biased anymore :) BTW sorry for the separate comments, I'm using an mobile device
Actually, yes it is. The patents cover the puzzles as a whole yes, but they also cover individual pieces, curves, properties that allow stability such as alignment mechanisms and many more. If it's in the patent, the patent owner owns it. Just because somebody didn't use the entire puzzle completely doesn't mean they didn't steal some of the design. Please learn stuff.
Thank you for shedding some more mechanism-based light on this situation.
i think that both CrazyBadCuber and you made some really good points. It definately gives me a new perspective on this situation. Kudos to both of you for putting in the time and effort to enlighten us on the situation.
You make understanding mechanisms much harder and complicated than it should be. If you examine the cross sections side by side of all the 4x4's you reference in the video, it is apparent that they are all extremely similar. There is just not a lot of variation when it comes down to fundamental geometry. That's why I think to patent any mechanism is a very touchy topic. I can make a video better explaining this idea if that would help people.
Yessss ur back!
Pi. Would the Shengsshou be a knockoff of the X-Cube for using the disign?