Setting up my Hardness Tester.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- Check out those axes here! www.timothydyc...
I received an old Louis & Sons hardness tester from a view of the channel. In this video I take on inspecting the hardness tester, learning about how it works, and setting it up. Once set up I start using it to check hardness on old axes and train rail! So that I can learn how to better make axes!
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The Rockwell hardness test. We did that in our metallurgy class in college. It measures the distance a small ball is pushed into the material to establish hardness.
It is truly amazing that guy bought that piece of equipment and gave it to you.
You should send him a Puget Sound axe and a Hudson Bay axe in return.
Nah, this was real interesting, loving to see the step up into a more scientific approach to improve the quality of your work!
You wouldn't be a Aussie by any chance?
Actually, I really enjoy the more technical videos, and I'm very happy for you. This is a tester I'd love to have, and I suspect you will while away many happy hours testing the hardness of everything from welds to Twinkies. Enjoy!
That's pretty interesting! That hot oil should have left a harder sample I think.
My understanding on preheating quench oil was this: The colder the oil, the more viscous, therefore having a slower heat transfer rate. Preheated oil, as Martin said is more liquid (less viscous) and can draw the heat away from the steel faster. The equation for calculating the overall heat transfer coefficient considers not only this heat transfer rate (heat flux) but also difference in temperature between a solid surface and surrounding fluid (800°c steel vs 0°c Oil). So you're both right, and it's actually super interesting that greater temp difference from icy cold oil and the increased fluidity from preheating the oil essentially cancelled each-other out in your test resulting in the same hardness to the steel!
I use to live just a couple blocks away from Ferndale. It's located just north of Detroit. Glad to see it's still cranking out great tools!
this brings back so many memories; i was tool and gauge inspector at an aerospace machine shop and we had a similar hardness tester i would calibrate every few months. i also vaguely remember my CEGEP materials course where we had to learn the differences and correspondances between all the rockwell (and other) scales and which materials they were applicable to. fun times. Awesome bit of kit you've picked up there.
Holy hoser the canada tyre had that! Off man, good looking equipment!
The hardness testers are always a great help when you're making things, especially out of steel alloys.
What a fabulous gift! When you were unwrapping the Rockwell tester, I was worried you were missing the dial indicator. Then to see you had all the anvils and the manual, I was getting excited. To see you had the calibration standards, I was ecstatic! This tool will take you to another level of forging.
I'm really curious to know what the hardness of the train rail is on the actual running surface, not in the cross-section.
And here I was waiting in hot anticipation for you to check the titanium hammer 😢. But seriously I cannot be the only one who wants to see the Rockwell hardness of all those exotic metal experiments of yours. 😁
Tim, try using a brine solution, and vigorously shake the piece of steel around in the brine solution when it's quenched.
It makes a difference in the hardness. We did exactly what you're doing in a metallurgy class.
We used pieces of steel cut from the same piece of steel and quenched in oil water and brine. One test was just plunged in the other test was shake a vigorously once it was plunged in. We measured all the hardnesses. The hardest came from the brine solution vigorously shaken when I was plunged in.
To really see the effects of heat treating, Turn a piece of the train rail into a piece of round stock approximately an inch and a half in diameter and about 6 in long.
You say hose to produce a column of water two to three inches tall.
After heating the round stock up to temperature of 1, 333°F, quickly drop the end of the round stock on to the end of the column of water, so that it only touches the one end.
Then you can measure the graduation of hardness from one end to the other.
This is why the best axe's have the hardened steel insert in the tip; So you can have a tough body that doesn't crack, and still have the super hardened blade that holds it's edge longer.
This is watching an artist perfecting his master pieces. If you’re a dishwasher, or doctor, or janitor, or blacksmith, always find ways to get better at your craft.
"dry as you can get" this is science, this is a metallurgist dream. I want to do this with some 5160 spring steel and some tapered leaves. I have some stock that is 3" wide and 2" thick and about 5-6" long that I'd love to make a hammer or axe head out of.
Nice video Tim! Thanks again!
I think this tool is CRITICAL for what you guys do. Was wondering for a long time why you didn’t have a hardness tester before. I’m happy to see you can now get ideas as to what’s happening with your creations.
Always nice to put real data with your products to refine your process. Very cool!
Very interesting Timothy, and thank you James as well.
Get your nerd on...looking forward to seeing more like this. Its the details of the art that I watch you for...and I appreciate it. Thank you.
The issue with cold versus hot oil is related to the vaporization temp and it's impact on the oil clinging to the steel. I've been using well used engine oil to quench for about thirty years, it tends to be thinner, less remaining long chain molecules, I get consistent returns in the 42-44 rockwell, and so far, have had zero cracking on gun parts, and machine tool fixturing. I'm more than a bit jealous, lol. Thanks for this great video, never got to tear the sides off the machine, as you have.
You say this isn't that interesting but These are the videos I enjoy most.
Water quench is the best route for that steel. And I wouldn’t use ice water. Make yourself a brine quenchant. (Water, salt, and dish soap) heated to 150*F. Try it out since you have the tester. I promise you will yield better results. You can always temper down but can’t make it harder. Brine quench is also safer than cold plain water but yields higher hardnesses. Martian is also correct about heating the oil. If you want to stick with oil then get some parks 50 quench oil, which is made for steel that needs a fast quench speed but is safer than water.
HOLY SMOKES! 😳 The Puget Sound Axe is used for making the notch to put a springboard in.
That's an AWESOME axe. 👊🦊👍
Love the axes and the serious harness tester😍
I use a these hardness machines on a daily basis. If you have any questions let me know!
A smart man understands his variables then begins to control them. Very professional.
Warm oil gets thinner and cools metal faster, so you should get harder steel with that. Think/cold oil have more air bubbles in the surface of steel and cools slower.
Hardening happens in higher temperatures so it dosen't matter if the oil 0 celsius or 80 celsius. cooling speed is the most important thing.
Keimo from Finland
Fascinating! I really appreciate the process of data collection and deductive reasoning! Thank you Tim.
Iv been following you for about 2 years now, and though this isn't the usual content it is still very interesting.
That was super cool of James to do!right on man!
Thats a great way of proving that your product is a good as it looks.
I'm guaranteeing YOU, Tim, that I am enjoying this content. Data can be fun.
Very interesting. Establishing baselines is essential.
That was very interesting! It's always fun to learn the "why". 😃
Most axes are around 57 Rockwell C. That's still soft enough to cut with a file.
Tim this was super interesting. Love seeing the actual machine for testing this. I've heard hardness ratings for all sorts of knives or machining videos. But it's cool to see it more in depth
Very interesting indeed. What a wonderful gift for you and us all as it made a great video
It is interesting to me. I worked in a knife factory. Our cutting edges were in the 60’s. This was ATS34 knife making steel.
Found that very interesting. Thank you!
Great vid. It’s not boring. Really enjoyed this vid and your process.
I’m watching from about 15 miles outside of Ferndale MI. So close.
Somehow I missed this video. Glad it made it to you in good condition. Guam to Canada is a long trip! When it came up for auction I had to buy it vs let it become scrap. But knew I would not be putting it to good use. Hope it serves you well.
The size and shape of the object being quenched will effect the final harness. A thin or small object will cool faster than a thicker larger object. The difference between the test piece and the actual axe could be as simple as that.
Neat stuff Tim! Very interesting! Looking forward to see how the Inconel and Titanium tests out... 😀
Hell ya
GG MY DUDE
It's probably already elsewhere in the comments, but the pre-heat in the oil makes it a faster quench (to an extent). All oils are different, but most non-formulated quenching oils have the highest specific heat capacity in the ~130-140 degree (F) range which means they pull the heat out the quickest when that temperature. It will be lower (less efficient) when cold, and then tapers off again once it's too hot. Formulated quench oils are made to have a stable range of specific heat capacity that's generally wider than that of cooking oils so more heat can be absorbed by the quenching media over time (more use for a run of quenched objects). Once the steel is below the nose of the TTT curve, which depends on the alloy, the rest of the heat taken out doesn't matter quite as much in this application. It's definitely safe to assume that you will achieve maximum hardness in that quench well before it gets to the temperature range of the oil since you're below the flash point. Love the investigation with the hardness tester, fascinating stuff!
Love this vid... yeah, your right its material nerd zone. But.. super important for making high quality bladed tools.
It would be really cool to mill or grind the surface down bit by bit testing the hardness to see how thick that work hardening is
Awesome video, I’ve got a few knives that were Rockwell tested and I’ve always wanted to see the process of testing that. It’d be fun to do a whole array of test metals like Damascus and stainless and things and see what they measure out too!! What a great guy to just send you that 👍
Great video, Tim. Most interesting look into the innards of your new toy. Your knowledge base has grown considerably and now your tools/product will benefit. And a big thank you to James for being so generous. You now need to find you, someone?, to pronounce you authorized! If you can't find anyone, I volunteer.
Thank You! This was genuinly interesting!
By far.. the most valuable you have in your shop... congrates..! little jealous!
Yes Timothy so happy to see a new video. Really good video today. Congratulations on your new tool /Toy Tim. Hopefully you get great use out of it for many years to come my friend. Can't wait to see more videos soon my friend. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge on. Keep making. God bless.
Neat to see you figuring out the hardness of the materials. Should be helpful for future axes.
Super interesting! Hope to see how this changes your process over time :)
Very entertaining to watch your reactions to things. Subscribed. 👍🏼😎😂
Love that segue, "Oh talking axes reminds me I have some to sell", Ch-ching!. NOT criticizing you and I mean it! Just funning around. Great video.
Excellent. Very interesting
Vroom that all went right over my head
Good stuff right there. Knowledge is power, don't forget. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the informative video! I found it to be a lot more interesting than some of your previous videos.
I watched it until the end and I enjoyed the video very much Tim! Great job on the videos and especially the axes, thanks for sharing your experience
"With a steep-nosed hammer on the end of a four foot switch handle, John Henry laid it back till it touched his heels, the spike went through the crosstie, split it half in two, thirty five cents a day, for driving steel". I suspect John Henry was also six four.
This is interesting. Hes like a kid with a new toy who just figured out some math he was taught in school applies to the new toy. Now hes gone a little crazy with it.
I was watching and interested at the point you said we probably weren't. We knew what we were getting into. 😆
Thanks for sharing, Tim!! Extremly interesting!! I could watch, and do it myself, all day long! So, so interesting to see the different testing of the different heat treating. Please test an axe with a hard edge forge welded into the edge part of the axe. Thanks for a great video!! This really made my day!! Best regards from Norway!
I'm loving this!
Super interesting!
I'm looking at getting into smithing with a friend of mine. This is really interesting stuff for an inquiring mind
Hey Tim, love the content, as always...not from Ferndale but about 70 miles away...
Very interesting!
I would like to see some tests on the inconel with this!?
Good video as usual, if you are off 100 degrees F can make a 5 to 10 c scale difference.
Missed your videos!
spent some time in Ferndale MI! great video
Ferndale Michigan is less than an hour away from me! 👍
Great video I really enjoyed it
I found this to be very entertaining. I'm sick in bed and I loved every bit of it, I actually forgot I was sick for a moment.
rockwell of 26 is exreamey soft a good knife is 58-61
I think the cold and hot oil left the same outer but the inner of the metal might be where the difference is on those pieces. Try cutting them in half and testing to find out if the cold oil is hardening more of the inner steel than the hot is. Could be too much of the steel is getting hard causing cracking.
Cool tool
I thought the whole thing was pretty interesting. Give yourself some credit. You know what we like.
Careful with the anvils. Any imperfections on the surface will throw off your readings. It's easy to accidentally hit the diamond when inserting and removing anvils, and that will absolutely mark up the surface.
Damn love that long axe 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥❤❤❤❤❤
Hi Tim, awesome project and a nice tester, but I think your numbers all over the board. I dont think you are getting accurate readings there. You should do test coupons and surface grind them. The top and bottom surface should be parallel, decarb ground off and degreased. You shouldnt test too near to the edges either. Someone mentioned the "smoothness", 120 grit should suffice.
Watching in Muskegon/Fruitport Michigan at least. 😁.
Super super cool
🤔 heard supposed to quench on a rising heat, would be interesting to see how they ping compared to quenching on a lowering heat.
I think you need to take more measurements, the sample size is pretty small and the variation is quite high for the averages to be accurate
Great content
Hey Tim! so you won't get accurate results on the Rockwell tester unless you take perfectly machined test pieces on the top and bottom. Any variations can throw your numbers off. I would take a piece of that railroad and machine the top and bottom parallel to each other and then quench it in Parks 50 oil. Then machine it again and then do your testing.
I’m not really sure how it hardening science works but could the Hudson Bay axe be harder because your testing on a thinner piece so it gets harder on the thinner part as it cools faster?
Tyrell knifeworks or Salem Straub or Aleeknives might have experience with hardness testers. I've seen them use them before.
I’m a numbers guy so that was very interesting to me
Some steel, especially the higher the alloy content, doesnt fully harden untill it hits -30°C. This is specifically the modern Powder Vanadium steels. But its crazy to think that steel isnt fully hardned by quenching it in ice water!
I thought that the water would not be as hard of a number since it turns to steam quickly off the surface and oil would stay on the surface longer.
Has anyone ever experimented with dipping into a thermal paste type material. Thinking cooling as fast as possible makes it harder but I'm not a metal specialist.
That was interesting!
Finally, some attempt at science!
(NORMALIDED?)
The location of the test is of course important. In the video it looked like the Hudson bay (that had cracked) was tested near the eye. I imagine that 44 Rockwell C is appropriate for the edge but not the body/eye area.
Way cool!
Thanks so use water for 50+ oil from 40+ and air for ,?i did here of someone using air quenxhing three times ,i would lime to here what using air additional times and maybe quenching in oil a couple of times etc to give a larger picture ,,,gr8 video man take heart that noobies lime me can use these numbers and form a me tal pattern for our own work ...👍🏼👍🏼