Hey Adam, I've done a LOT of work with drilling and cutting glass. To prep it, you need to add a strip of packing tape over the area, the stickier the better, this helps to reduce cracks. Second tip is use an abrasive bit rather than a cutting bit Or a bit with a lot of shallow flutes, there was a brand that made a 7 flute, with 0.1mm flute depth, used to rip through bottles like nothing. Third tip is to fill the bottle with water, this increases the internal strength of the bottle, the water gives a little bit of a push back on the glass and stops heat fractures from occurring.
Also using water or something similar on the cutting surface to help cool and keep the silica dust down. Every time you blew on the dust I screamed quietly inside. Inhaling glass dust is incredibly bad for you. Silicosis is horrible.
@@therenaissancetinker2972 Yeah, either some putty to keep water inside the cutting area OR a spout constantly. Any time I'm grinding anything that's hard and creates micro abrasives I tend to only do either completely submerged or with a copious amount of water running over it. I was also freaking out about the blowing, vacuumed would be a step up but still not ideal.
@@hogandromgool2062 yeah my go to is underwater for this type of thing. I retrofitted my old dynacut saw with continuous water flow. Even they I wear a respirator when cutting. After 20 years of scientific glass and lathe work I’ve learned the hard way not to take chances with your lungs or eyes.
As soon as you started milling the doodads, you were undoing your lapping by deforming the metal. Do the course shaping first, then the fine surface adjustments. Also, I think the quick lapping results (changing sound, smoother motion) you were getting was just the compound getting spread out evenly. You've got to do wayyyy more lapping to get the surfaces matching. Finally, after thorough cleaning (ultrasonic bath in isopropyl alcohol), don't ding them together in your impatience. A small dab of PTFE grease, work it into the groove, assemble, clamp!
Yep, messed up all that initial work by milling it afterward. Also likely milled the slots way too deep and compromised the strength of the pieces. Each time it's used with any force now those smaller pieces are likely to deform. And using it on a mill will get all sorts of junk in the moving parts too.
Yes I have been lapping things for years and that was most definitely either larger bits of the compound being crushed OR just being spread out a bit. Could also just be random crud that's fallen in being cut down into a paste also. Could also be machine lines ribboning off into the compound as there are some still visible on them when he started. If something is lapped nicely it often stops making noise and falls about just by gravity alone. First time I lapped precision parts I thought something was wrong with the compound I swapped o midway through after a few hours because it stopped making noises so I continued until I thought it had had enough but unfortunately I should have realized the lack of sound was the surfaced no longer grinding and that was a finished product. The part ended up way out of spec, floppy and sad. Very disappointing. The other thing to consider is his parts were lapped, modified and warped then put back together without lapping. In my opinion that's reverse order of operations. I also don't think WD-40 is a good compound to use on something like this too, it works well for low clamping forces but it loses all it's viscosity under pressure, think grease as stated would make a huge difference.
Even sharpening knives requires way more time to get the edges aligned, and that's a lot less surface area with more pressure and more grit. Should have left the compound in and articulated all of the joints at once in all directions. Would take a long time.
@@hogandromgool2062i have no experience lapping but what you said makes sense. But I don't think it was WD-40, just WD-40 branded white lithium grease.
Hey Adam, I've (re-)scraped mill ways - i.e. sliding metal surfaces - down to micron precision / smooth sliding. The lapping (and hammering) you've done is okay only as a first step - to get them to stop binding / interfering. After that, further lapping actually will make the sticktion worse! That's because the lapping motion is creating scratches aligned with the in-use motion. You want any scratches in a sliding surface at an angle to the in-use motion. The 'proper' technique is to lightly blue up one surface (the better/larger surface), make an imprint on the other sliding surface and scrape the high spots at a ~45 deg angle. But scraping small _round_ surfaces with any precision is very difficult: 1) you'll have false imprinting from inserting the part and it slightly rocking 2) scraping tools are designed for flat scraping so they'll immediately mess up the geometry 3) Any scraping increases clearance and play (which can result in binding under load). What I'd recommend is lightly buffing the sliding surfaces (at an angle) with a rotary tool for fine control.
Not to the same specificity, but I was thinking the same thing when it comes to lapping it. The more the contact is smooth, the more ringing there will be, just like with guage blocks.
Tip for others: always use water when cutting glass. On the second slot you can see the bottle cracked. Glass is very prone to cracking from the acute temperature difference of the 'cold' portion to the heated portion that is being cut/worked (glass is an insulator so the temperature difference will build and then crack easily). Its also much safer to keep the silica dust to a minimum - that stuff is very bad for humans.
Always use water, and use a grinding tool, not a cutting tool. Diamond-coated bits are really cheap. The thermal regulation of the water also helps keep the diamond grit from overheating and potentially melting out the medium it's embedded in, as well as washing away the dust created. The reason for the chipping is because, using a tool with edges, you're essentially doing micro-knapping of the glass, making tiny chips via percussion, rather than actually scraping away the material as you would with a grinding cutter, or cutting chips as you would in more flexible materials like metal.
Tool Makers opinion: Definitely start with a way lower grit. You gotta do all the surface correction in the first lap. All following steps of lapping with finer compound should only be to remove the scratches of the pervious grit. Its impossible for me to know exactly what grit you should start with, but basically the worse the surfaces are the more course you gotta start. Contact dye like prussian blue are good for checking how much material need to come off. Also, go for a thicker grease over way lube. And dont breath the glass dust!
@@yobgodababua1862 You reminded me of the kid in elementary school who could say 'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis'. It was very impressive.
As far as lubrication goes, I would use a molybdenum disulfide (aka moly) grease with this to protect against galling or binding up when under pressure. Moly greases are great for just about anything, but they're actually specifically used for applications where two metal surfaces are sliding against each other under great pressures. Really slather it on every square inch and then worry about squeeze-out later. Also, as far as lapping it goes, I would do it again with something in the ballpark of 600-800 grit and then work your way up to the ~2000 grit range from there. Definitely be careful not to overdo it or expect it to be perfect in one pass, you don't want to end up with a noticeably sloppier fit. End with a polish that will result in a mirror sheen, something you might already have like flitz is good.
Part of the issue is that you lapped the jaws then milled them which distorted the shape. I would have milled the jaw tips THEN lapped them, but not with Diamond paste. You'll have to re-lap all the surfaces now to get them mated again. I wish I could afford one of those fractal vises. They are totally handy.
my thoughts, run the vise jaws together and machine the slots as “holes” in each set. That would make holding the jaws easy as well as mating the opposite jaws with the slots.
@@ryanlukens9280 Same problem though, very high chance of the metal warping from heat or even just the removal of material. very likely would need to be lapped again anyways.
are we sure he did? He was still lapping while machining the slots. But even then, it might not matter. He is removing a lot of (unneeded) stiffness so the final small jaws may just conform to the socket under pressure, depending on material of course.
Lapping creates more surface contact area. It makes it more important to have a lubricant that can handle the high pressure with a very thin film. I'm not sure what that would be but maybe something with Teflon like Tri-Flow. Also, cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner might be better than using the parts cleaner.
Also, for mating surfaces, 1000 grit is pretty rough, 3000 grit or higher would be better. After 3000 grit, you quickly get to diminishing returns. The oil would need to be viscous as well. That way, it doesn't get pushed out of the joints over time. Is there a high viscosity, low friction, low shear force oil that is safe to use in a shop?
To cut the groove in the smallest segments, you could also clamp pairs of them together face to face, then use a drill to bore down the center. Once they're taken out of the clamp, you'd have a nice semi-circular groove running down the middle of each face.
it's pretty standard practice to put a support block under the work piece while it is in the vise to prevent the mill cutter from pushing the work piece down in the vice like what happened to the bottle. This prevents Z-axis variance.
@@vodiak Over-engineering a solution. A simple piece of scrap wood will do, in most cases, you want something sacrifical just incase you blow through the work piece or make a mess with coolants.
Oxtoolco has a fantastic, detailed series on the making of precision lapping plates! Check it out: th-cam.com/video/rHmsQEAx16o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PYq2R6XKHjxj1pLZ
It would be terribly boring. While I'm sure Adam would make it entertaining by geeking out about it, the fact is that you're just rubbing plates together over and over.
@@johnfreiler6017 lol, are you calling me dull? 😉 My TH-cam view history is full of people planing wood. You might be right, many might find it boring.
Adam, the finer lapping means you end up with the perfectly flat surfaces on gauge blocks, and any movements the individual half-circles make when you tighten the vise ends up wringing them together. You are almost better off making the pieces fit together more loosely and filling the voids with a light oil. Also the inside cuts you put in each of the smallest semicircles don't appear to be smoothed and that might cause you some scratches down the road. Those cut-outs will also reduce the amount of friction holding the work piece in place, as you can see with that glass bottle--it kept slipping whenever you applied force. You could add a thin rubber strip across each of the small circles (bridging over the cut-outs) and that might help. Or if you want a little more fun with fractals, mirror one side of your vise and put it on the underside to perfectly support your workpiece when you need to press down on it.
You will need to re-lap the parts that bent. Also consider adding lubrication bearing groove on the sides you are lapping. On very small parts that need to move freely under compression you need to lower surface contact and use high viscosity grease between them. Just a thought from someone who works on a lot of small gun parts.
A large part of why this is modified shape is better is that when grabbing the object, the contact points of the vice are pushing on the edges of the rotatable part. This makes it rotate and align before grabbing. To work correctly I think the rubber would have to be on top of the fingers of those grabby lego hands he made!
Being the cheep o i am, my first thought was for permanent sort of rubber, you could use some bed-liner, but for temp use as a soft vice, just some cuts of the right sized vacuum hose i think would be perfect.
Your enthusiasm is wonderful to behold. “A slot in a bottle” - child like joy. Yes, you have two lungs but it’s easier if you have both. Pre-filtering the glass dust would be good to see.
@@fewwiggleno adhesive would be good, but it would be unlikely for it to stick anyway because these types of things are kept with a light oil coating that will make it so few adhesives will actually hold well.
Be aware that diamond lapping compound will not break down like the other traditional lapping compounds and can wear the two surfaces potentially forever. Diamond compound should only be used with a dedicated tool that precisely mates the part to be lapped. The diamond particles will embed themselves, both in the tool and the work and not go away. You are better off using a compound such as carborundum or aluminum oxide on the tool, which should be softer than the work so that it stays embedded in the tool and not in the (harder) work.
@@writerpatrickAs someone who has “drilled” glass, a diamond coated bit or the Dremel double helix work equally well. The main thing to remember is that you grind glass not drill it. As Adam was slotting, my hope was that he was going slow enough for heat to dissipate and freaking out about not having any grinding lube on it. In my experience he was lucky to only have a relatively few flakes come off.
There's decent evidence that diamond abrasive actually doesn't last nearly as long as you would expect when used with steel, particularly low carbon steel. This is almost certainly not low carbon, but likely still would exhibit some of that excessive wearing tendency. It's been long hypothesized that the iron and carbon of the diamond are forming iron carbide. There's some research that suggests it may be due to other mechanisms. Either way, it's pretty well evidenced that iron does actually wear diamonds away, so that grit will not stick around forever.
20:20 if you want your glass bottle not to move downwards put a block of wood under it that acts like a stop, just make sure your stop is a smaller width than the bottle. Yes polishing the surface with an abrasive works, as you call it lapping or honing for cylindrical devices. If you want ultra smooth action without having to grease or oil the fractal vise ever again you could sleeve the halfmoons with Teflon. My old man made this modification to his fractal vise back in the 90's & it worked really well especially for oil free environments also Teflon has very good heat resistance. I remember the good old days when I was a kid in my dad's machine shop solving problems by modifying tools to perform a specific task, fun times & learned a lot as a teen. So I see you caught the machinist bug Adam, when you have a new tool you start think of ways of making it better.😁😁keep up the great workshop content.
What continues to bring me back are not only the stories told during the work but the absolute and pure joy Adam takes in doing the work. It's fascinating to watch and something I wish were far more common. Please continue to bring this sort of joy to all of us Adam. Thank you.
Did you polish the undersides after stamping the letters? If not, that could be an additional source of friction as there will be small ridges around each letter.
Thank you for talking about the origin of precision. I do hand tool woodworking sometimes and I have sometimes pondered how they achieved something like the flatness I desire on my tools, but I never really pondered it enough to draw a conclusion. As soon as you mentioned the three rocks, it started to make sense and I knew what you meant before you explained it.
After lapping the surfaces to created mated sets, the parts need to be roughened to give the grease some place to stay or it will be squeezed out. Also a lithium grease with molybdenum, I recommend Mobilgrease XHP 462 Moly, will ensure low friction between parts even at high clamping pressures.
18:05 made me chuckle out loud. “Not perfect but good enough” from the man who just lapped 28 ways with 1k lapping compound. I would love for Adam to spend a whole video on the concept of “good enough”. I train my staff that “good enough” is when you’re tired of working on it and “they” are tired of waiting for it.
"Good enough"... when it's to the standard "they" are paying for, which isn't always the best standard "I" can work too.. I can make it better, but they're not going to pay anymore for it (in my line of work anyway).
Other modding tips (that may have already been mentioned by others in the comments): Add a rubber coating strip accross the center of the teeth, this will help with gripping objects that are very smooth (like the glass bottle, which kept getting pushed down as you were trying to drill through) Add a lever bar to that twist lock mechanism And a safety tip, have a hoover next to your drill bit when drilling glass, that glass dust you're spraying everywhere cannot be healthy, please stay safe 😭
I use those rubber gripper things (meant for opening jars) all the time to aid in me holding onto, or to aid in clamping irregular objects. They really have a lot of uses I've found. The bottle at the end was sinking from the press... if you put a strip of rubber like I mentioned around it or on either sides it would be held tight and gripped, wouldn't sink. Cheers!
Generally, precision slotting would come with a intermediate step of loosening the vice and then reclamping for a finished cut. It lets the material stress relieve a bit from having such a large amount removed. It was cool to see you playing with a fractal vice. Those are interesting workholding devices. A slip fit assembly isn't really going to be improved by lapping compound, because it is effectively removing clearance and creating a vacuum. I always wondered if it was possible to create a workholding device with a series of movable pins or ball bearings. Creating a truly universal/repeatable vice would eliminate the conventional practice of simpy milling the shape into aluminum jaws, so it's a relevant topic. The trick is something that gives enough to hold the shape but retains the repeatable reference surface like a solid jaw.
As others have mentioned, a graphite or molybdenum disulphide dry lube would probably be the best. You can also mix it with a light oil to carry it, I used to use the "graphoil" on manual typewriters when they were a thing. It's messy as hell but works well.
As a locksmith and key cutter we recommend to puff graphite into locks that are sticky instead of wd40 or similar as itll clog/bind up over time with bits of grit and grime in the lube, where as graphite 'laps' the surfaces and make the lock much smoother
I would avoid graphite if it may be used around oils. graphite is great for a dry vise but when cutting oil is introduced it makes a paste that can bind once dried and restrict movement. I personally use a dry Teflon lube for my vices and screws on my cnc and mill. have to reapply every few weeks but never had a case where i needed to take apart and brush parts clean since i swapped over.
@allangibson8494 Normally you'd be correct but typically in the UK our locks are made from copper and zinc. Stainless and other materials are used for the cam and casing so wouldn't be much of a factor as the important materials are non ferrous
I would love a compilation of Adam's machining sound effects. The lapping "Ke-ke-ke-ke" and the corner-softening whistle. I bet there are thousands of these. Adam is a gift to this world.
Did you lap the jaws to the surface of the vice? You mentioned it wasn't as smooth after assembled and that seems like a possible reason. For something like that you might gt better results with a surface plate. Very interesting. I would also advise against cutting glass without water. The fine silica dust is very bad for your insides, eyes, everything. When you cut or shape glass in other crafts, its always under water to prevent that dust from going airborne.
yeah, i worried even before he began the milling whether there was at least a mask involved. and then i kept hearing the blowing away of dust. i'm not sure whether it was the compressor all through out, sounded rather like mouth blown. adam should consider designing something that reminded him of his psa every now and then...
Graphite powder on all contact surfaces should help take care of the remaining points of friction. Then cleaning debris from the parts in an ultrasonic bath after use on the mill will prevent uneven wear. I hope to some day watch you machine a variety of holding jaws to fit the 16 dovetail semi-circles of this vice! Possibly some with knurled faces to prevent the slipping you experienced with the glass bottle. Maybe a set with interchangeable faces via set screw so you can hold delicate items with rubber or silicone jaw faces.
Hey Adam, I enjoy watching your videos and how you explain things in a plain and simple manner. Thank you for that. I have a suggestion that may or may not be easily implemented. I've seen some other videos about old (late 1800s / early 1900s) fractal vises that use grease ports to provide constant lubricity to the different fractal components. I say "grease ports" but it may be more advantageous to use a thinner grease or even a thick oil. Just a thought. I design oil wells and components for the largest oil field services company in the world (SLB) and grease ports are used regularly to provide lubrication to areas that would otherwise not be able to get or keep the needed lubrication for the parts to move properly. I hope this suggestion helps. Again, many thanks for continuing to make these videos. 🙂
I think the smallest fractals should have rounded tips instead of flat. The flat tips grab at irregular areas, but rounded ones will manage to compensate and turn until they cant, if that makes sense. Cutting the groove was a great start, but to have the least resistance, you'll need to round them at the tip. My thoughts on the compound is, I wouldn't continue to higher grits. 1000 is probably more than enough. I also think some of the noise you heard when you first started lapping was actually the compound particles grinding until they were mostly dust. My fear with running higher and higher grits is that you wont get a better fit. You'd actually likely get a sloppier fit because the original milled surfaces were cut to a certain tolerance and keyed so the parts fit together without falling apart. By lapping them, you'll make those keyways wider and make the fit sloppier. I would suggest using a higher viscosity oil between the parts to take up the slack you're creating.
@ianvisser7899 except, I dont think you technically want more "grip" in the classic sense. The vise isn't gripping the object like a normal flat faced vise would. You notice that, as you tighten the vise, it is conforming to the shape, instead of the shape conforming and adjusting to the vise. On a normal flat faced vise, the object you put in it will adjust to a point where it is evenly gripped at a couple points and will balance in the middle. The pressure will be different, where the vise touches the object and less on the places it doesn't. This causes stress on the object. On a fractal vise, the vise conforms to the shape of the object to reduce the amount of pressure in one given area. If you were to measure the pressure in any given area, it would be close to the same, regardless of where you are gripping. Silicone padding on the vise would alter that and make the vise grab in places that you wouldn't necessarily want. You want the vise to essentially roll into place, not grab the first spot it touches.
@@AdmiralQualityyou would end up with fewer points of contact. I think the pressure from a round ending would apply way too much force in a single location.
@@MelodicTurtleMetalThat's the whole point of this exercise though. Also, if the surfaces of the object aren't flat (as we can pretty much assume) then that's going to happen anyway. (After I wrote that I wondered if there is such a thing as a 2D fractal vise, where it's captive ball bearings inside captive ball bearings inside captive ball bearings! Still wondering...)
@@AdmiralQuality you want more contact points, and to spread the pressure across various points, otherwise you'll just damage every item. Flat ridges would be better
I suspect that by taking the edges off each of the grippers you’ve reduced the length of the lever when they touch the item being held so it’s harder for them to adjust.
Yup. That extra width provided a lot of leverage to help rotate the teeth into place. Taking the corner off reduces the leverage and also allows the tooth to actually rotate the wrong way to "grab" on the beveled edge face.
Fractal vices are super-cool tools to have but smooth jaws have their limitations, as opposed to the diagonally-knurled, serrated jaws that most bench vices come with and those fractal jaws will only grip an object from moving up and down, as well as any smooth metal surface can and when you multiply the verticle facets to better grip the object horizontally, the jaws just become 'rails' in a vertical sense, due to less gripping surface. I would suggest putting multiple metal blocks if nessasary underneath the object to support downward pressure.
Yes, higher grit results in smoother action. Also for lubrication: high pressure grease should work, but I prefer a mixture of light oil, graphite and molybdenum disulfite. I buy mine in a spray bottle (packed and sold by Nigrin, I don't know if that's available anywhere else but in Germany) Look out for anything containing MolyD (MoS2, molybdenum disulfite), stuff's good!
I had the same thought, need some moly grease - pretty cool stuff from a molecular perspective - they form little 'sheets' of M with S on either side, so you end up with a bajillion little nano-scale springy 'plates' which prevent the surfaces from coming in contact.
graphite and oil are good lubricants on their own, but don't mix them together; over time they will seize up. Depending on how often you reapply oil you may not have experienced it yet; but it does happen.
@@ghffrsfygdhfjkjiysdz It is a very light oil, it might even evaporate over time. The joints seem dry after a few weeks. Also, I did not have to reapply on any that were not getting cleaned in between.
One of my favorite lubricants to at least try in uncertain applications is both hydraulic oil and high temp bearing grease. Sometimes the bearing grease can be a bit sticky but a mix of both really can be a surprisingly good lubricant.
Totally agree. The smooth metal aids in vertical slipping as we saw with the bottle. The only other thing that could of been done would be to of put something beneath the bottle so it had a termination in movement. Alternatively changing the caliper design of the two surfaces that move towards each other would solve this same problem. Currently it is two books or plates on either side that move towards each other. If it was changed to one long but narrow plate in the middle from one side and then a matched groove in a long book from the other side such that they move through each other smoothly. The vice would maintain a mating surface beneath the jaws at all distances while still allowing them to clamp even a thin object.
Of course, thinking further the complication from this would be the pivot point. Will probably need to maintain a groove in the middle for the pivot area of the vice and work outside of that for the two plates to mesh next to each other from either side essentially with a tongue and groove.
Cheap toothpaste works pretty good as polishing compound. You have to use it with power, ideally an orbital buffer, but a drill works as well. It's more abrasive than you'd think tbh. Also the fancier toothpaste doesn't work as well, you want the cheap stuff.
Greetings Adam it is a pleasure and privilege to help one that was such a motivation. You have lapped all the fractal parts. Yet you overlooked the interface of the fractal head and the main vice body. I noticed it looked to possibly be rubbing on and snagging the lower body, yet when you pulled it out and checked it worked fine. To me that points to that last interface between those two parts. Much respect from a fellow maker Kitsuntuar.
I might be wrong, but I always thought that perfectly smooth surface's aren't as slippery. That's why you lap valves (perfect seal) and hone cilinders (small grooves retain oil and therefore less friction)
honing cylinders is mostly to create a surface where the oil will have space and sticks better ( you never wan't the oil film to break ). perfectly smooth can be rather different, depending on the applied forces, surface, material and smoothness. you can get stuff so smooth it cold welds together, not slippery any more then... when applying force, often you compromise because friction throgh irregularities is varying so much that you get jumpy behaviour, so you trade "not as slippery as it could get" for consistency in slipperiness
Even at 1000 grit the surface isn't going to be perfectly smooth and will still be loaded with micro surface scratches which you can see in the fact that they're not polished to a mirror shine. This should be plenty of oil-holding for such a low speed application.
They are "stickier" they suction together. That's where the grease comes in. The choice of WD-40 instead of grease actually makes this suction FAR worse. If you get two pieces of glass and put oil on them then rub them together they will stick together. Grease them next and you'll see they do "stick" but they aren't suctioned together like the oiled ones are. Take apart any mechanical equipment hat has honed surfaces, there will NEVER be oil, always grease because it has micro-particulate in it that artificially makes the surface irregular enough to slide freely. Graphite powder is one of the best lubricants because of how small it's particle size is, it's used for a lot of precision surfaces.
You Adam are my Idol since I was 4 and me and my dad used to watch the og mythbusters series. Now I'm 17 and I want to thank you for giving me the curiosity to study engineering(it is my passion since then). P.s. sorry for my bad English, I'm Italian😂
Hey! I think the lapping process didn’t go as well as you expected, because the sliding surfaces were altered by the vice bending them ever so slightly, and the hammer corrections most likely didn’t leave them in the same position as before
I think there's a possibility the lapping was partially upset by the clamping/milling of the small jaws. You'd want to reverse that order of operation ideally. I would try molybdenum disulfide. It has the characteristic of filling imperfection and performing well under pressure, in bearings and axles, for example.
The design make things evenly grasp from left to right, but not up to down. Because you don't have a way to conform to the shape up to down things will slip like your bottle did. It makes the design more complicated to make, but would prevent slipping. Also a toothed option can help prevent slipping as well. VvvV
you lapped the surfaces then changed how the surface touch each other of course its still rubbing, lap them again and dont deform them afterward this time
@@crackedemerald4930 There's not that much difference between pencil lead and a graphite brush used in motors with direct contact with copper. The goal of a motor brush is roughly the exact opposite of lapping compound.
@@ExtremeSquaredactually there is. Pencil "lead" is a mixture of graphite and clay (silica) the ratio of which is where the different harnesses comes from.
Adam, if you've never played with a Belgium bit setup, it's fun. The bits are hollow with a diamond abrasive, and you pump water through them while you drill. The bits thread into a housing that chucks into the drill, into which you pump the water. Not all that complicated. I've used them a lot for drilling glass jewelry, but I don't know how safe milling sideways would be!
I wonder if the fact that the vice is laid out horizontally has an effect. I feel like the weight of each piece (especially the larger ones) are essentially 'hanging off' the dovetails like a cantilever structure, which might affect the friction between the pieces differently than they did when you were lapping them (since you were either holding them vertically or having them laid out on a table, essentially negating gravity as a force causing friction)
I know that in heavy constructions when they want to minimize friction they use plate liquid soap for it. Also, I would probably soften the edges on the inside of the channel instead of the outside. Letting the outside intact it is more far away from the center of rotation in the semi-circles and as such more force would be applied when closing the vice (as a lever) - alowing it to rotate easier.
It looked to me like it got stuck once you changed the orientation. You did the lapping with them pointing up, but that isn't the actual surface they ride on when the gravity changes direction.
@@jesuschris9543 but it still might be a very slightly different surface. If you image the part has some (microscopic) clearance on the to and bottom, lapping it upside down will polish the top-surface and the higher-corner; but then gravity causes the part to primarily rest on the bottom surface and slide against the bottom corner. I don’t know if he was varying the upward/downward pressure while lapping, and I don’t know if this is a significant effect, but the relative strength of gravity and pressure isn’t a factor- it’s not about forces, it’s about whether the upside-down lapping mated all the same surfaces that are used when it’s right-side up.
The thing that I really appreciate about Adam's work here is that not only does he show us his successes, but also his mistakes -- and how he overcomes them.
I'm a huge white lithium grease fan because of it's incredible longevity and it's ability to spread itself thinner over time instead of dissipating but I would say for the pressure you will be putting on this I would use white lithium anti seize instead of a spray. The paste will work like a permanent lapping compound and grease mixture.
I think using a wire EDM to put rounds instead of flats on the gripping surface would be the next best thing. Beyond that, add a third axis of fractals beneath the vice as a support. That could keep odd parts from shifting in the vice vertically during machining (problem you saw with the bottle).
As others have mentioned, I think the reduced contact from the slots you milled out of the smaller parts, in addition to the very smooth surface left, makes it a bit too slippery. Some sort of hard rubber insert or strips would seem like a smart choice.
An idea of improving it would be to create a 3dish version using half spheres instead of half circles. This will allow to secure up and down so the object don t slip.
I would think that after lapping the surfaces to ensure the closest fit you can get you would want to scrape the surfaces to cause controlled irregularities where oil or other lubricant would be able to help the surfaces slide. This is common on surfaces like the ways of machining equipment. Keith Rucker of the Vintage Machinery TH-cam channel has some great videos on flattening and scraping surfaces that slide on each other.
I would add small rubber inserts for your new mini moons so it can grab slick objects easier. as for grease keep it to a minimum a small dab of EP grease or Extreme Pressure grease will do you. Adding a bar to your twist handle will also making closing the jaws much easier.
I think Adam is in love more so with the idea of the fractal vice rather than this particular item. It just so happens to be a physical embodiment of the idea in his possession. And while his tinkering tenacity has great stamina, I foresee him moving on from this object sooner or later.
The problem is that even if you got a perfect surface, it will still want to bind. First of all they are the same material. So surface bonding is actually just getting worse. The only way to make it not bind at all is to have a extremely thick grease or chemical coating. Both them will not make the jaws turn easy but they will allow them to turn under pressure. To get fractal vice that would work perfectly you need to have roller bearings instead of dovetail slots.
I was wondering about that. The truer the surfaces the more surface area is going to be in contact with each other. That's not necessarily a good thing. Isn't that how gauge blocks stick together?
Lube is a must for similar metals in a dovetail joint, but with a high viscosity grease, the more coplanar the surfaces are, the more freely they'll move. Any sort of lobing or nonplanar area will pressure the grease to squeeze out of tight spots, or fill voids in loose spots; this takes a significant amount of mechanical pressure, even on thinner greases. A more viscous grease will allow for a thinner film that still adequately protects, which is really what you want for surfaces that are going to vised together. I'd go with molybdenum disulfide for this application.
Invert the fasteners from the original and make them a channeled slot an suck. Them into each other. No perfect matting surface and less room for debris to be a issue and easier to produce n manufacture
Adam, if you see this, I encourage you to explore a metal surface treatment called WPC treatment. It’s essentially a micro sand blasting process that can create a hydrostatic bearing of air between two very tightly machined surfaces. Seems like a fun experimental application here.
It would be a cool mod to have a low profile set of fractal jaws as a vertical bed beneath the line of the horizontal jaws so you could have a support that also conforms to odd shapes to keep it registered before clamping down.
I would think that if you get the surfaces too true to each other, there will be greater friction due to the additional surface contact. Plus they've already proven easy to deform so as you remove material in the lapping, you will create larger gaps between the parts. So when you tighten the vice, the pieces will bend and then seize up.
I can see why you wanted to mill the channels: When gripping a concave workpiece with flat faces, you have two contact points per face. However, with a convex workpiece, you would have only one contact point per face. With the channel, you would have two contact points per face either way. To make the channels, I suggest: While the vise is still fully assembled, clamp a thin straight strip of aluminum in the vise. Then center the mill or drill press on the aluminum strip and drill a hole along each small face. The softer aluminum should tend to keep the drill bit centered between the two faces.
I have a suspicion that when you milled out the core of the smallest fractals, you did two things: released pent up stresses in the metal and changed the hardness of the metal from the heat. Both can result in bowing and distortions. Since the lapped first, the new bends in the metal are now present in the fractals. They probably need to be relapped to account for their new shapes.
Hi Adam, I enjoyed this video and your explanation. The grease specialy for this purpose I would use EP2 (EP stands for Extreme Pressure) Thats made for slow moving/ rubbing objects. I allways use it for the tappered bearings in the steering stem of a motorcycle, which barely moves but its under a lot of pressure. Grts from 'The Old Mechanic' 👨🔧--->🏍
I'm using REMS spezial thread cutting oil for almost everything. This stuff is amazing for lubrication. It's so fine that as soon as you put it on anything, it flows into even the smallest gap.
As for the lapping advice, I wonder if you can take the concept of rubbing 3 surfaces together and apply it here? Do the parts fit upside down? If so, maybe try to lap them upside down, then right side up. That could give you A, B, and C surfaces to get them perfectly smooth.
I think the concept of the 3 surfaces is specifically for flat surfaces. As two surfaces rub and shape each other they will become shapes that mirror the other. The significance of three surfaces is that if you have surface A, B, and C, the only shape that allows them all to be mirrors of each other is perfectly flat. A mirrors B. B mirrors C. C Mirrors A
When lapping make sure you do it in the orientation of the force that will be applied when you start using the vice. Otherwise you are lapping a surface that isnt "load bearing"
For high pressure sliding surfaces I always use molybdenum disulfide grease. Doesn't smell that nice, but the 6 ton pill press has never been happier since we switched to it
Hey Adam. I would probably try Nano-Oil or sometimes it's called NanoLube. I usually use it on knife bearings and moving gun parts but I think it would probably do an excellent job on your vise.
I know this sounds ridiculous but you were gonna be able to cut the grove perfectly if the tip of the bit, the fractal vice and the glass bottle are underwater. You have been an inspiration to me since MythBusters you are one of the most awesome human beings I have ever had the pleasure of knowing about thank you so much for doing what you do the way you do it.
the reason this works is beacuse the water puts pressure on the inside and outside off the glass, while also cooling it. though id imagine he dosnt want to throw his vice in water lol
I think if you’re going to use this vice for mill work you should secure your work piece and then using some masking/painter tape to go over the top of the vice. It would prevent debris falling into all of the cracks.
I actually would love to hear more about the origins of precision, with how you actually go about doing the rubbing of rocks together to make flatness happen. And, if you happen to know, if there's a way to get a perfect cylinder.
You might take an interest in the video "Origins of Precision" on the channel of Machine Thinking. Not saying it's _everything_ you're looking for, but I found it nice.
This makes me think of those circular planes of ice that form naturally. As the river flows, the water eddies and swirls in a somewhat consistant pattern. Ice forms at the edges near the banks first, then starts to create a layer over the faster moving water, creating a spinning secton. The moving ice in the middle grinds against the edges of the unmoving ice, and eventually ceates an almost perfect circle. I know this is a little off topic, but it's a beautiful natural phenomena.
One way to think of the three flats is that you are removing the material that isn't a perfect surface, and the only perfect surfaces that makes all three rocks perfectly match is a flat plane. The trick that you don't get with a cylinder is that the flats are self-improving. With a cylinder, the parts wear away from each other, maybe improving the shaft is possible but you're always wallowing out the hole. Look into the "Universal Measuring Machine" and Wayne Moore's "The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy"
Hey Adam, I am a huge fan and wish you to be safe and healthy! I know its not always the best for a camera, but a mask is always a great idea around glass dust! Love the vice!!
Never change, Mr. Savage. Thank you for making my childhood so amazing, and still in my adulthood. You and Jaime were and are some of my favorites to have ever walked the earth. And rip, Grant.
Grate job, . In the groove that you milled in each piece, you can put a special piece of rubber to better hold objects that tend to slide, such as the glass bottle.
I dunno if I'm right or not, and i dont know anything about this stuff, but it seems like Adam modifying this made it funtion worse. Seemed like over tinkering a piece of machinery that was already functioning quite well.
We often do rubbings and we refer to them as "Frottage" worth looking up... it has more than one meaning. Also a personal fun fractal fact... In HS I did my sciencefair project about Benoit Mandelbrot and fractals... I was disqualified because it was before a computer category. Once again highly informative and entertaining.
The Further Adventures of the Fractal Vise is something I didn't expect to see today, and it's honestly perfect timing. After a pretty bad start to the week, this is so chilled out. Zen. Thanks.
Egad, im seeing Adam blow glass dust around, and im freaking out. Just about the worst abrasive dust you can make, and if/when it gets into the ways of the mill (or worse, lungs!) its bad news...
No idea as to the exact grit but I use finely powdered aluminum oxide (I think the supplier is Fisher) when polishing ion optics, you can use whatever lubricant (or solvent masquerading as) you want.
Always unexpected gems watching Adam at work. That alternate use of "worry" is new to me and yet makes so much sense. Reminds me of how the Chinese character for "research" combines the idioms of something like "grinding a stone to finest sand in a cave".
Watching Adam work reminds me of the constant fiddling, optimizing and puzzling that happens in software engineering. Working with real stuff is a physical element that just seems so much more satisfying. I wish I could go back in time and start over as an engineer.
@@AdmiralQuality Fiddling, optimizing, and puzzling are not flailing, lol. They are the description of the experience of learning. Fiddling is learning your framework or materials and exploring what they can do, and the limits they have. Trial and error often lead to amazing new designs and adaptations. Optimizing is looking at flaws and figuring out how to overcome them, or cutting out and streamlining where needed. Puzzling is thinking about potential solutions, considering the project and it's implications overall or in specifics, and using your mind and creatvity to figure things out. Toddlers, birds, monkeys, octopi, and everything with intelligence does these things on some level, including humans of all levels and experience. Watch a toddler figure out how to stack blocks of various sizes, and you will see these things all happening at once. Resentment is a waste of time, especially when you could be busy elsewhere being delighted by something new.
Woohooooo more fractal vise content! That thing is amazing and i'm very jealous of you just owning one to take apart and investigate. I'd love one even though i don't have a workshop... my dad has several sheds/workshops and lathes but it's far too nice for him he'd only muck it up xD With the lapping, maybe start with a much lower grit and maybe lap each piece IN PLACE, since when they're all in series in the vise, they are being weighted front and back differently to when you're freely moving them just against another piece (As you said yourself in your 3 rocks tale, 2 rocks allows for imperfections and curves, 3 rocks leads to a flat surface). I know it will probably make the process take much longer to have to dissemble, lap, and them reassemble the whole thing before working the lapping fluid in, but i feel like it would be worth it for a more accurate result. Sorry but we don't say "Haitch" in the UK, only the uneducated underclass pronounce it like that... usually from "Tut Norf" (which is still actually south of where i live but anyway...). Most regular humans with educations pronounce it "aytch" like a sensible person. As my english professor used to say "Aytch! Aytch! We're not farmers! We're not making HAY in this classroom!".
That has to be the coolest tool I've ever seen. What can't fractals do? Adam, you're the best. You're so funny when the camera keeps falling. It's nice to see the rest of your shop :)
Hey Adam, I've done a LOT of work with drilling and cutting glass. To prep it, you need to add a strip of packing tape over the area, the stickier the better, this helps to reduce cracks. Second tip is use an abrasive bit rather than a cutting bit Or a bit with a lot of shallow flutes, there was a brand that made a 7 flute, with 0.1mm flute depth, used to rip through bottles like nothing. Third tip is to fill the bottle with water, this increases the internal strength of the bottle, the water gives a little bit of a push back on the glass and stops heat fractures from occurring.
Also using water or something similar on the cutting surface to help cool and keep the silica dust down. Every time you blew on the dust I screamed quietly inside. Inhaling glass dust is incredibly bad for you. Silicosis is horrible.
@@therenaissancetinker2972 Yeah, either some putty to keep water inside the cutting area OR a spout constantly. Any time I'm grinding anything that's hard and creates micro abrasives I tend to only do either completely submerged or with a copious amount of water running over it.
I was also freaking out about the blowing, vacuumed would be a step up but still not ideal.
glad i'm not the only glass guy in here that noticed that lol
@@hogandromgool2062 yeah my go to is underwater for this type of thing. I retrofitted my old dynacut saw with continuous water flow. Even they I wear a respirator when cutting. After 20 years of scientific glass and lathe work I’ve learned the hard way not to take chances with your lungs or eyes.
@@ryanschindler923 oh I was absolutely horrified. I expect better than that from Adam and this channel in general.
As soon as you started milling the doodads, you were undoing your lapping by deforming the metal. Do the course shaping first, then the fine surface adjustments. Also, I think the quick lapping results (changing sound, smoother motion) you were getting was just the compound getting spread out evenly. You've got to do wayyyy more lapping to get the surfaces matching. Finally, after thorough cleaning (ultrasonic bath in isopropyl alcohol), don't ding them together in your impatience. A small dab of PTFE grease, work it into the groove, assemble, clamp!
I'd just leave the lapping compound in there for a month or so while I used it lol. Is it the correct way? No, but it's the easiest.
Yep, messed up all that initial work by milling it afterward.
Also likely milled the slots way too deep and compromised the strength of the pieces. Each time it's used with any force now those smaller pieces are likely to deform.
And using it on a mill will get all sorts of junk in the moving parts too.
Yes I have been lapping things for years and that was most definitely either larger bits of the compound being crushed OR just being spread out a bit. Could also just be random crud that's fallen in being cut down into a paste also. Could also be machine lines ribboning off into the compound as there are some still visible on them when he started.
If something is lapped nicely it often stops making noise and falls about just by gravity alone. First time I lapped precision parts I thought something was wrong with the compound I swapped o midway through after a few hours because it stopped making noises so I continued until I thought it had had enough but unfortunately I should have realized the lack of sound was the surfaced no longer grinding and that was a finished product. The part ended up way out of spec, floppy and sad. Very disappointing.
The other thing to consider is his parts were lapped, modified and warped then put back together without lapping. In my opinion that's reverse order of operations. I also don't think WD-40 is a good compound to use on something like this too, it works well for low clamping forces but it loses all it's viscosity under pressure, think grease as stated would make a huge difference.
Even sharpening knives requires way more time to get the edges aligned, and that's a lot less surface area with more pressure and more grit. Should have left the compound in and articulated all of the joints at once in all directions. Would take a long time.
@@hogandromgool2062i have no experience lapping but what you said makes sense. But I don't think it was WD-40, just WD-40 branded white lithium grease.
Hey Adam, I've (re-)scraped mill ways - i.e. sliding metal surfaces - down to micron precision / smooth sliding. The lapping (and hammering) you've done is okay only as a first step - to get them to stop binding / interfering. After that, further lapping actually will make the sticktion worse! That's because the lapping motion is creating scratches aligned with the in-use motion. You want any scratches in a sliding surface at an angle to the in-use motion. The 'proper' technique is to lightly blue up one surface (the better/larger surface), make an imprint on the other sliding surface and scrape the high spots at a ~45 deg angle. But scraping small _round_ surfaces with any precision is very difficult: 1) you'll have false imprinting from inserting the part and it slightly rocking 2) scraping tools are designed for flat scraping so they'll immediately mess up the geometry 3) Any scraping increases clearance and play (which can result in binding under load). What I'd recommend is lightly buffing the sliding surfaces (at an angle) with a rotary tool for fine control.
Not to the same specificity, but I was thinking the same thing when it comes to lapping it. The more the contact is smooth, the more ringing there will be, just like with guage blocks.
Tip for others: always use water when cutting glass. On the second slot you can see the bottle cracked. Glass is very prone to cracking from the acute temperature difference of the 'cold' portion to the heated portion that is being cut/worked (glass is an insulator so the temperature difference will build and then crack easily). Its also much safer to keep the silica dust to a minimum - that stuff is very bad for humans.
Damn you science with your thermophysics!
I was thinking this as he went in dry and cringing as I waited for a crack or explosion. It definitely chipped but went better than I anticipated.
Always use water, and use a grinding tool, not a cutting tool. Diamond-coated bits are really cheap. The thermal regulation of the water also helps keep the diamond grit from overheating and potentially melting out the medium it's embedded in, as well as washing away the dust created.
The reason for the chipping is because, using a tool with edges, you're essentially doing micro-knapping of the glass, making tiny chips via percussion, rather than actually scraping away the material as you would with a grinding cutter, or cutting chips as you would in more flexible materials like metal.
@@themeandrousengineer I was squinting the whole time, wish I had safety glasses nearby just to enjoy watching better :)
Came here to say this, lots of coolant needed!
Tool Makers opinion:
Definitely start with a way lower grit. You gotta do all the surface correction in the first lap. All following steps of lapping with finer compound should only be to remove the scratches of the pervious grit. Its impossible for me to know exactly what grit you should start with, but basically the worse the surfaces are the more course you gotta start. Contact dye like prussian blue are good for checking how much material need to come off.
Also, go for a thicker grease over way lube.
And dont breath the glass dust!
100% on the glass dust. Silicosis is currently incurable, but may be preventable.
@@yobgodababua1862 yup, when he blew the dust and you saw all the glinty surfaces catch the light I was thinking silicosis all the way.
@@yobgodababua1862 You reminded me of the kid in elementary school who could say 'pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis'. It was very impressive.
@@lasagnahog7695 Thank you, and I have never said that word, but I did bring up the permittivity of free space in casual conversation yesterday.
@@yobgodababua1862that's the type of conversation I like!
As far as lubrication goes, I would use a molybdenum disulfide (aka moly) grease with this to protect against galling or binding up when under pressure. Moly greases are great for just about anything, but they're actually specifically used for applications where two metal surfaces are sliding against each other under great pressures. Really slather it on every square inch and then worry about squeeze-out later. Also, as far as lapping it goes, I would do it again with something in the ballpark of 600-800 grit and then work your way up to the ~2000 grit range from there. Definitely be careful not to overdo it or expect it to be perfect in one pass, you don't want to end up with a noticeably sloppier fit. End with a polish that will result in a mirror sheen, something you might already have like flitz is good.
Used to work on aircraft, was looking for this answer.
Part of the issue is that you lapped the jaws then milled them which distorted the shape. I would have milled the jaw tips THEN lapped them, but not with Diamond paste. You'll have to re-lap all the surfaces now to get them mated again. I wish I could afford one of those fractal vises. They are totally handy.
Yep, wrong order.
I immediately noticed that and I bet if he watched this back would realize the order issue. forest for the trees moment.
my thoughts, run the vise jaws together and machine the slots as “holes” in each set. That would make holding the jaws easy as well as mating the opposite jaws with the slots.
@@ryanlukens9280 Same problem though, very high chance of the metal warping from heat or even just the removal of material. very likely would need to be lapped again anyways.
are we sure he did? He was still lapping while machining the slots.
But even then, it might not matter. He is removing a lot of (unneeded) stiffness so the final small jaws may just conform to the socket under pressure, depending on material of course.
Lapping creates more surface contact area. It makes it more important to have a lubricant that can handle the high pressure with a very thin film. I'm not sure what that would be but maybe something with Teflon like Tri-Flow. Also, cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner might be better than using the parts cleaner.
I was going to suggest the same. Or some kind of PTFE lube.
Yeah, making the surface perfectly smooth is great, but still need a "bearing". In this case, lube.
Graphite powder.
Also, for mating surfaces, 1000 grit is pretty rough, 3000 grit or higher would be better. After 3000 grit, you quickly get to diminishing returns. The oil would need to be viscous as well. That way, it doesn't get pushed out of the joints over time. Is there a high viscosity, low friction, low shear force oil that is safe to use in a shop?
molybdenum disulphide
To cut the groove in the smallest segments, you could also clamp pairs of them together face to face, then use a drill to bore down the center. Once they're taken out of the clamp, you'd have a nice semi-circular groove running down the middle of each face.
it's pretty standard practice to put a support block under the work piece while it is in the vise to prevent the mill cutter from pushing the work piece down in the vice like what happened to the bottle. This prevents Z-axis variance.
Maybe a third fractal vice jaw would make a good support (facing up from underneath). Maybe a custom one so it isn't as tall.
@@vodiak Over-engineering a solution. A simple piece of scrap wood will do, in most cases, you want something sacrifical just incase you blow through the work piece or make a mess with coolants.
Thanks for the confirmation. It felt like the obvious solution, but I’m always prepared for the “surprise! that’s a terrible idea, here’s why”
I'd suggest some machinist jacks. Good side project if he doesn't have any already. Lathe work and some milling tasks.
@@peterward2875 my exact thought, even a tapped hole in some round stock with a cap screw can do the job.
Would love to see a video where you make a flat edge from scratch (without using edge). The phenomenon you described sounds genuinely fascinating.
Ya I was trying to think about it. Seems pretty easy to demonstrate. Is there a name for this process?
@@GorlockSlayer”whitworth 3 plate method”, that’s what I’ve seen it referred to as
Oxtoolco has a fantastic, detailed series on the making of precision lapping plates! Check it out:
th-cam.com/video/rHmsQEAx16o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PYq2R6XKHjxj1pLZ
It would be terribly boring. While I'm sure Adam would make it entertaining by geeking out about it, the fact is that you're just rubbing plates together over and over.
@@johnfreiler6017 lol, are you calling me dull? 😉 My TH-cam view history is full of people planing wood. You might be right, many might find it boring.
Adam, the finer lapping means you end up with the perfectly flat surfaces on gauge blocks, and any movements the individual half-circles make when you tighten the vise ends up wringing them together. You are almost better off making the pieces fit together more loosely and filling the voids with a light oil. Also the inside cuts you put in each of the smallest semicircles don't appear to be smoothed and that might cause you some scratches down the road. Those cut-outs will also reduce the amount of friction holding the work piece in place, as you can see with that glass bottle--it kept slipping whenever you applied force. You could add a thin rubber strip across each of the small circles (bridging over the cut-outs) and that might help. Or if you want a little more fun with fractals, mirror one side of your vise and put it on the underside to perfectly support your workpiece when you need to press down on it.
You will need to re-lap the parts that bent. Also consider adding lubrication bearing groove on the sides you are lapping. On very small parts that need to move freely under compression you need to lower surface contact and use high viscosity grease between them. Just a thought from someone who works on a lot of small gun parts.
Those grooves you've made, perfect for a little insert of rubber. Would hold slippery objects like that bottle so much better!
Had a similar thought; hard surface to hard surface is inherently slippery, especially when smooth.
A large part of why this is modified shape is better is that when grabbing the object, the contact points of the vice are pushing on the edges of the rotatable part. This makes it rotate and align before grabbing. To work correctly I think the rubber would have to be on top of the fingers of those grabby lego hands he made!
You could also just glue on rubber grips, that would be, like, way simpler, lmao.
Being the cheep o i am, my first thought was for permanent sort of rubber, you could use some bed-liner, but for temp use as a soft vice, just some cuts of the right sized vacuum hose i think would be perfect.
Or a big rubber band around each side of the vice?
Your enthusiasm is wonderful to behold. “A slot in a bottle” - child like joy.
Yes, you have two lungs but it’s easier if you have both. Pre-filtering the glass dust would be good to see.
you should cover the vice surface with tape to protect from "dust" once you have clamped the shape, helps keep the mated surfaces clean.
Hmmmm, maybe something like saran wrap would be even better, less 'messy'?
@@fewwiggleno adhesive would be good, but it would be unlikely for it to stick anyway because these types of things are kept with a light oil coating that will make it so few adhesives will actually hold well.
Be aware that diamond lapping compound will not break down like the other traditional lapping compounds and can wear the two surfaces potentially forever. Diamond compound should only be used with a dedicated tool that precisely mates the part to be lapped. The diamond particles will embed themselves, both in the tool and the work and not go away. You are better off using a compound such as carborundum or aluminum oxide on the tool, which should be softer than the work so that it stays embedded in the tool and not in the (harder) work.
Speaking of diamonds, a diamond tipped bit would probably work better for cutting glass.
@@writerpatrickAs someone who has “drilled” glass, a diamond coated bit or the Dremel double helix work equally well.
The main thing to remember is that you grind glass not drill it.
As Adam was slotting, my hope was that he was going slow enough for heat to dissipate and freaking out about not having any grinding lube on it.
In my experience he was lucky to only have a relatively few flakes come off.
Even worse is the fact that his parts washer now contains diamond lapping compound and will contaminate everything he washes in it.
@@GrayRaceCatFOREVER
There's decent evidence that diamond abrasive actually doesn't last nearly as long as you would expect when used with steel, particularly low carbon steel. This is almost certainly not low carbon, but likely still would exhibit some of that excessive wearing tendency. It's been long hypothesized that the iron and carbon of the diamond are forming iron carbide. There's some research that suggests it may be due to other mechanisms. Either way, it's pretty well evidenced that iron does actually wear diamonds away, so that grit will not stick around forever.
20:20 if you want your glass bottle not to move downwards put a block of wood under it that acts like a stop, just make sure your stop is a smaller width than the bottle.
Yes polishing the surface with an abrasive works, as you call it lapping or honing for cylindrical devices. If you want ultra smooth action without having to grease or oil the fractal vise ever again you could sleeve the halfmoons with Teflon. My old man made this modification to his fractal vise back in the 90's & it worked really well especially for oil free environments also Teflon has very good heat resistance. I remember the good old days when I was a kid in my dad's machine shop solving problems by modifying tools to perform a specific task, fun times & learned a lot as a teen. So I see you caught the machinist bug Adam, when you have a new tool you start think of ways of making it better.😁😁keep up the great workshop content.
What continues to bring me back are not only the stories told during the work but the absolute and pure joy Adam takes in doing the work. It's fascinating to watch and something I wish were far more common. Please continue to bring this sort of joy to all of us Adam. Thank you.
Did you polish the undersides after stamping the letters? If not, that could be an additional source of friction as there will be small ridges around each letter.
Definitely would be. There's always vertical protrusion around a stamp mark .
This got 100+ likes 😂
🤦♂️
Excellent catch!
Do they actually touch anything though? I don't see a point of contact for them
@@MelodicTurtleMetal I am not certain, but I do remember Adam saying that the stamped letters face downwards when it is assembled.
Thank you for talking about the origin of precision. I do hand tool woodworking sometimes and I have sometimes pondered how they achieved something like the flatness I desire on my tools, but I never really pondered it enough to draw a conclusion. As soon as you mentioned the three rocks, it started to make sense and I knew what you meant before you explained it.
Well worth googling and watching videos on, precision engineering.
@@jaysunbradygood point! Thanks for giving me an idea of what to put on tonight.
After lapping the surfaces to created mated sets, the parts need to be roughened to give the grease some place to stay or it will be squeezed out. Also a lithium grease with molybdenum, I recommend Mobilgrease XHP 462 Moly, will ensure low friction between parts even at high clamping pressures.
18:05 made me chuckle out loud. “Not perfect but good enough” from the man who just lapped 28 ways with 1k lapping compound. I would love for Adam to spend a whole video on the concept of “good enough”. I train my staff that “good enough” is when you’re tired of working on it and “they” are tired of waiting for it.
"Good enough"... when it's to the standard "they" are paying for, which isn't always the best standard "I" can work too.. I can make it better, but they're not going to pay anymore for it (in my line of work anyway).
Once you realize perfection is utterly impossible, the only task is to define "good enough"
Watching you mill that slot in a bottle was hands down the most anxiety inducing thing I've ever seen. It was like reverse ASMR haha
Other modding tips (that may have already been mentioned by others in the comments):
Add a rubber coating strip accross the center of the teeth, this will help with gripping objects that are very smooth (like the glass bottle, which kept getting pushed down as you were trying to drill through)
Add a lever bar to that twist lock mechanism
And a safety tip, have a hoover next to your drill bit when drilling glass, that glass dust you're spraying everywhere cannot be healthy, please stay safe 😭
^ This. A huge amount of surface area was removed from the teeth of the vice so it would be good to add back some additional forces
use an aluminum welding rod, you're welcome
I use those rubber gripper things (meant for opening jars) all the time to aid in me holding onto, or to aid in clamping irregular objects. They really have a lot of uses I've found. The bottle at the end was sinking from the press... if you put a strip of rubber like I mentioned around it or on either sides it would be held tight and gripped, wouldn't sink. Cheers!
this is where insert for jaws instead of machined grooves would've been perfect. Make some from an old drive belt.
@@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301Hey, different inserts? Great idea.
Generally, precision slotting would come with a intermediate step of loosening the vice and then reclamping for a finished cut. It lets the material stress relieve a bit from having such a large amount removed. It was cool to see you playing with a fractal vice. Those are interesting workholding devices. A slip fit assembly isn't really going to be improved by lapping compound, because it is effectively removing clearance and creating a vacuum. I always wondered if it was possible to create a workholding device with a series of movable pins or ball bearings. Creating a truly universal/repeatable vice would eliminate the conventional practice of simpy milling the shape into aluminum jaws, so it's a relevant topic. The trick is something that gives enough to hold the shape but retains the repeatable reference surface like a solid jaw.
I want a compilation of every time Adam's camera holder has fallen over lol
That would be a long video
ive thought about this and then naming it "POV: youre far too drunk in adams shop"
You’re not wrong.
And sync it to Mr Blue Sky by ELO.
@@absolutEVEL Or "You're falling asleep, but Adam keeps waking you up."
As others have mentioned, a graphite or molybdenum disulphide dry lube would probably be the best. You can also mix it with a light oil to carry it, I used to use the "graphoil" on manual typewriters when they were a thing. It's messy as hell but works well.
Or buy a spray can of Molybond 122L…
As a locksmith and key cutter we recommend to puff graphite into locks that are sticky instead of wd40 or similar as itll clog/bind up over time with bits of grit and grime in the lube, where as graphite 'laps' the surfaces and make the lock much smoother
@@leepullon1147 Graphite accelerates corrosion on ferrous metals…
A bit of caution is required regarding materials compatibility…
I would avoid graphite if it may be used around oils. graphite is great for a dry vise but when cutting oil is introduced it makes a paste that can bind once dried and restrict movement. I personally use a dry Teflon lube for my vices and screws on my cnc and mill. have to reapply every few weeks but never had a case where i needed to take apart and brush parts clean since i swapped over.
@allangibson8494 Normally you'd be correct but typically in the UK our locks are made from copper and zinc. Stainless and other materials are used for the cam and casing so wouldn't be much of a factor as the important materials are non ferrous
I would love a compilation of Adam's machining sound effects. The lapping "Ke-ke-ke-ke" and the corner-softening whistle. I bet there are thousands of these.
Adam is a gift to this world.
Did you lap the jaws to the surface of the vice? You mentioned it wasn't as smooth after assembled and that seems like a possible reason. For something like that you might gt better results with a surface plate. Very interesting. I would also advise against cutting glass without water. The fine silica dust is very bad for your insides, eyes, everything. When you cut or shape glass in other crafts, its always under water to prevent that dust from going airborne.
yeah, i worried even before he began the milling whether there was at least a mask involved. and then i kept hearing the blowing away of dust. i'm not sure whether it was the compressor all through out, sounded rather like mouth blown. adam should consider designing something that reminded him of his psa every now and then...
Graphite powder on all contact surfaces should help take care of the remaining points of friction. Then cleaning debris from the parts in an ultrasonic bath after use on the mill will prevent uneven wear.
I hope to some day watch you machine a variety of holding jaws to fit the 16 dovetail semi-circles of this vice! Possibly some with knurled faces to prevent the slipping you experienced with the glass bottle. Maybe a set with interchangeable faces via set screw so you can hold delicate items with rubber or silicone jaw faces.
Hey Adam, I enjoy watching your videos and how you explain things in a plain and simple manner. Thank you for that. I have a suggestion that may or may not be easily implemented. I've seen some other videos about old (late 1800s / early 1900s) fractal vises that use grease ports to provide constant lubricity to the different fractal components. I say "grease ports" but it may be more advantageous to use a thinner grease or even a thick oil. Just a thought. I design oil wells and components for the largest oil field services company in the world (SLB) and grease ports are used regularly to provide lubrication to areas that would otherwise not be able to get or keep the needed lubrication for the parts to move properly. I hope this suggestion helps. Again, many thanks for continuing to make these videos. 🙂
I think the smallest fractals should have rounded tips instead of flat. The flat tips grab at irregular areas, but rounded ones will manage to compensate and turn until they cant, if that makes sense. Cutting the groove was a great start, but to have the least resistance, you'll need to round them at the tip.
My thoughts on the compound is, I wouldn't continue to higher grits. 1000 is probably more than enough. I also think some of the noise you heard when you first started lapping was actually the compound particles grinding until they were mostly dust. My fear with running higher and higher grits is that you wont get a better fit. You'd actually likely get a sloppier fit because the original milled surfaces were cut to a certain tolerance and keyed so the parts fit together without falling apart. By lapping them, you'll make those keyways wider and make the fit sloppier. I would suggest using a higher viscosity oil between the parts to take up the slack you're creating.
@ianvisser7899 except, I dont think you technically want more "grip" in the classic sense. The vise isn't gripping the object like a normal flat faced vise would. You notice that, as you tighten the vise, it is conforming to the shape, instead of the shape conforming and adjusting to the vise.
On a normal flat faced vise, the object you put in it will adjust to a point where it is evenly gripped at a couple points and will balance in the middle. The pressure will be different, where the vise touches the object and less on the places it doesn't. This causes stress on the object.
On a fractal vise, the vise conforms to the shape of the object to reduce the amount of pressure in one given area. If you were to measure the pressure in any given area, it would be close to the same, regardless of where you are gripping.
Silicone padding on the vise would alter that and make the vise grab in places that you wouldn't necessarily want. You want the vise to essentially roll into place, not grab the first spot it touches.
Exactly.
Captive (even no-longer free to rotate) ball bearings would be the ideal "grip" surfaces.
@@AdmiralQualityyou would end up with fewer points of contact. I think the pressure from a round ending would apply way too much force in a single location.
@@MelodicTurtleMetalThat's the whole point of this exercise though. Also, if the surfaces of the object aren't flat (as we can pretty much assume) then that's going to happen anyway.
(After I wrote that I wondered if there is such a thing as a 2D fractal vise, where it's captive ball bearings inside captive ball bearings inside captive ball bearings! Still wondering...)
@@AdmiralQuality you want more contact points, and to spread the pressure across various points, otherwise you'll just damage every item. Flat ridges would be better
I suspect that by taking the edges off each of the grippers you’ve reduced the length of the lever when they touch the item being held so it’s harder for them to adjust.
I was thinking the same. That reduced the surface area in contact with the object being held. Maybe a vice with yet another row of half moons?
Maybe add a rubber surface that would slightly deform to grab the item better.
Yep, Adam should have talked to Hand Tool Rescue, I feel like HTR realized that issue with the lever length in one of his videos about the vice.
Yup. That extra width provided a lot of leverage to help rotate the teeth into place. Taking the corner off reduces the leverage and also allows the tooth to actually rotate the wrong way to "grab" on the beveled edge face.
Agreed. Now that the edge is gone the teeth have to reach farther to make contact.
Fractal vices are super-cool tools to have but smooth jaws have their limitations, as opposed to the diagonally-knurled, serrated jaws that most bench vices come with and those fractal jaws will only grip an object from moving up and down, as well as any smooth metal surface can and when you multiply the verticle facets to better grip the object horizontally, the jaws just become 'rails' in a vertical sense, due to less gripping surface. I would suggest putting multiple metal blocks if nessasary underneath the object to support downward pressure.
Man, those cuts of where the video is sped up but the audio continues at the same pace is top notch 😙👌
This isn't hard to do... like, at all. But hey, if you're impressed by simple things, so be it.
Yeah, but it's just a cool choice to make and worth appreciating
A classic Tested editing trick! I loved it the first time I heard it used, and it rewards every time.
@@VielofDarkness Do you also hate on people who enjoy sunsets and cold glasses of water?
@@thekingoffailure9967 I'm sorry, did I fray your sensitive safe-space boundaries? It's not Hate to identify simple tasks for what they are... simple.
Yes, higher grit results in smoother action.
Also for lubrication: high pressure grease should work, but I prefer a mixture of light oil, graphite and molybdenum disulfite. I buy mine in a spray bottle (packed and sold by Nigrin, I don't know if that's available anywhere else but in Germany)
Look out for anything containing MolyD (MoS2, molybdenum disulfite), stuff's good!
I had the same thought, need some moly grease - pretty cool stuff from a molecular perspective - they form little 'sheets' of M with S on either side, so you end up with a bajillion little nano-scale springy 'plates' which prevent the surfaces from coming in contact.
graphite and oil are good lubricants on their own, but don't mix them together; over time they will seize up. Depending on how often you reapply oil you may not have experienced it yet; but it does happen.
@@ghffrsfygdhfjkjiysdz It is a very light oil, it might even evaporate over time. The joints seem dry after a few weeks. Also, I did not have to reapply on any that were not getting cleaned in between.
One of my favorite lubricants to at least try in uncertain applications is both hydraulic oil and high temp bearing grease. Sometimes the bearing grease can be a bit sticky but a mix of both really can be a surprisingly good lubricant.
You might also add a horizontal slot/groove in the face pieces in order to hold objects rounded in that direction.
I actually came here to say just that!
Good Thought!
Totally agree. The smooth metal aids in vertical slipping as we saw with the bottle. The only other thing that could of been done would be to of put something beneath the bottle so it had a termination in movement. Alternatively changing the caliper design of the two surfaces that move towards each other would solve this same problem. Currently it is two books or plates on either side that move towards each other. If it was changed to one long but narrow plate in the middle from one side and then a matched groove in a long book from the other side such that they move through each other smoothly. The vice would maintain a mating surface beneath the jaws at all distances while still allowing them to clamp even a thin object.
Of course, thinking further the complication from this would be the pivot point. Will probably need to maintain a groove in the middle for the pivot area of the vice and work outside of that for the two plates to mesh next to each other from either side essentially with a tongue and groove.
I was going to recommend cross hatches in the faces.
"Toothpaste is a lapping compound for your internal face parts" just might have to be my new favorite quote of yours.😂
Luxury bones
Don't use it on your brain lol
Cheap toothpaste works pretty good as polishing compound. You have to use it with power, ideally an orbital buffer, but a drill works as well. It's more abrasive than you'd think tbh.
Also the fancier toothpaste doesn't work as well, you want the cheap stuff.
Greetings Adam it is a pleasure and privilege to help one that was such a motivation. You have lapped all the fractal parts. Yet you overlooked the interface of the fractal head and the main vice body. I noticed it looked to possibly be rubbing on and snagging the lower body, yet when you pulled it out and checked it worked fine. To me that points to that last interface between those two parts. Much respect from a fellow maker Kitsuntuar.
I might be wrong, but I always thought that perfectly smooth surface's aren't as slippery. That's why you lap valves (perfect seal) and hone cilinders (small grooves retain oil and therefore less friction)
honing cylinders is mostly to create a surface where the oil will have space and sticks better ( you never wan't the oil film to break ). perfectly smooth can be rather different, depending on the applied forces, surface, material and smoothness. you can get stuff so smooth it cold welds together, not slippery any more then... when applying force, often you compromise because friction throgh irregularities is varying so much that you get jumpy behaviour, so you trade "not as slippery as it could get" for consistency in slipperiness
Even at 1000 grit the surface isn't going to be perfectly smooth and will still be loaded with micro surface scratches which you can see in the fact that they're not polished to a mirror shine. This should be plenty of oil-holding for such a low speed application.
They are "stickier" they suction together. That's where the grease comes in. The choice of WD-40 instead of grease actually makes this suction FAR worse. If you get two pieces of glass and put oil on them then rub them together they will stick together. Grease them next and you'll see they do "stick" but they aren't suctioned together like the oiled ones are.
Take apart any mechanical equipment hat has honed surfaces, there will NEVER be oil, always grease because it has micro-particulate in it that artificially makes the surface irregular enough to slide freely. Graphite powder is one of the best lubricants because of how small it's particle size is, it's used for a lot of precision surfaces.
Makes sense--that's why mill and lathe ways are scraped rather than sanded.
You Adam are my Idol since I was 4 and me and my dad used to watch the og mythbusters series. Now I'm 17 and I want to thank you for giving me the curiosity to study engineering(it is my passion since then).
P.s. sorry for my bad English, I'm Italian😂
Hey! I think the lapping process didn’t go as well as you expected, because the sliding surfaces were altered by the vice bending them ever so slightly, and the hammer corrections most likely didn’t leave them in the same position as before
I think there's a possibility the lapping was partially upset by the clamping/milling of the small jaws. You'd want to reverse that order of operation ideally. I would try molybdenum disulfide. It has the characteristic of filling imperfection and performing well under pressure, in bearings and axles, for example.
The design make things evenly grasp from left to right, but not up to down. Because you don't have a way to conform to the shape up to down things will slip like your bottle did. It makes the design more complicated to make, but would prevent slipping. Also a toothed option can help prevent slipping as well. VvvV
you lapped the surfaces then changed how the surface touch each other of course its still rubbing, lap them again and dont deform them afterward this time
You could try using graphite dust. It works well as lubricant and since its dust, it should help laping over time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but graphite won't lap steel beyond a geological timescale due to the wide disparity in hardness.
@@ExtremeSquaredunless it's pencil lead, maybe.
@@crackedemerald4930 There's not that much difference between pencil lead and a graphite brush used in motors with direct contact with copper. The goal of a motor brush is roughly the exact opposite of lapping compound.
@@ExtremeSquaredactually there is. Pencil "lead" is a mixture of graphite and clay (silica) the ratio of which is where the different harnesses comes from.
I would probably go with a dry ceramic instead of graphite personally.
Adam, if you've never played with a Belgium bit setup, it's fun. The bits are hollow with a diamond abrasive, and you pump water through them while you drill. The bits thread into a housing that chucks into the drill, into which you pump the water. Not all that complicated. I've used them a lot for drilling glass jewelry, but I don't know how safe milling sideways would be!
I wonder if the fact that the vice is laid out horizontally has an effect. I feel like the weight of each piece (especially the larger ones) are essentially 'hanging off' the dovetails like a cantilever structure, which might affect the friction between the pieces differently than they did when you were lapping them (since you were either holding them vertically or having them laid out on a table, essentially negating gravity as a force causing friction)
24:22 Lapping followed by warping. It seems to me... that that undid all the precision gained by lapping.
Yes, it seems like after warping those parts then fixing them with a hammer he needed to lap them a second time.
I know that in heavy constructions when they want to minimize friction they use plate liquid soap for it. Also, I would probably soften the edges on the inside of the channel instead of the outside. Letting the outside intact it is more far away from the center of rotation in the semi-circles and as such more force would be applied when closing the vice (as a lever) - alowing it to rotate easier.
if you want lubricity under pressure, grease containing molybdenum or graphite could help.
It looked to me like it got stuck once you changed the orientation. You did the lapping with them pointing up, but that isn't the actual surface they ride on when the gravity changes direction.
The compression force of the vice is far greater than the force of gravity pulling the piecesdown
@@jesuschris9543 but it still might be a very slightly different surface. If you image the part has some (microscopic) clearance on the to and bottom, lapping it upside down will polish the top-surface and the higher-corner; but then gravity causes the part to primarily rest on the bottom surface and slide against the bottom corner.
I don’t know if he was varying the upward/downward pressure while lapping, and I don’t know if this is a significant effect, but the relative strength of gravity and pressure isn’t a factor- it’s not about forces, it’s about whether the upside-down lapping mated all the same surfaces that are used when it’s right-side up.
I get the feeling that the bigger issue is coming from his clamping force when cutting those slots. He should have done more lapping afterwards.
@@jesuschris9543 that's true but you can see in the video him moving it with his hands even binds much more once he changes orientation
I love the rawness you can almost feel the vibes of the shops when it's not a heavily edited video
The thing that I really appreciate about Adam's work here is that not only does he show us his successes, but also his mistakes -- and how he overcomes them.
I'm a huge white lithium grease fan because of it's incredible longevity and it's ability to spread itself thinner over time instead of dissipating but I would say for the pressure you will be putting on this I would use white lithium anti seize instead of a spray. The paste will work like a permanent lapping compound and grease mixture.
*its
One thing to consider is lapping reduces the peaks and vallies if you do it to fine they won't hold oil or lube and could fuse like gauge blocks do
I think using a wire EDM to put rounds instead of flats on the gripping surface would be the next best thing. Beyond that, add a third axis of fractals beneath the vice as a support. That could keep odd parts from shifting in the vice vertically during machining (problem you saw with the bottle).
I am supposing that EDM would have been best, rather than next best! Must need far less grip to hold a part with such, compared to a cutting tool.
As others have mentioned, I think the reduced contact from the slots you milled out of the smaller parts, in addition to the very smooth surface left, makes it a bit too slippery. Some sort of hard rubber insert or strips would seem like a smart choice.
An idea of improving it would be to create a 3dish version using half spheres instead of half circles. This will allow to secure up and down so the object don t slip.
I would think that after lapping the surfaces to ensure the closest fit you can get you would want to scrape the surfaces to cause controlled irregularities where oil or other lubricant would be able to help the surfaces slide. This is common on surfaces like the ways of machining equipment. Keith Rucker of the Vintage Machinery TH-cam channel has some great videos on flattening and scraping surfaces that slide on each other.
I would add small rubber inserts for your new mini moons so it can grab slick objects easier. as for grease keep it to a minimum a small dab of EP grease or Extreme Pressure grease will do you. Adding a bar to your twist handle will also making closing the jaws much easier.
I love the sense of humor of the video editor. The way they play with the sound when the video speeds up. Its great!
I think Adam is in love more so with the idea of the fractal vice rather than this particular item. It just so happens to be a physical embodiment of the idea in his possession. And while his tinkering tenacity has great stamina, I foresee him moving on from this object sooner or later.
The problem is that even if you got a perfect surface, it will still want to bind. First of all they are the same material. So surface bonding is actually just getting worse.
The only way to make it not bind at all is to have a extremely thick grease or chemical coating. Both them will not make the jaws turn easy but they will allow them to turn under pressure.
To get fractal vice that would work perfectly you need to have roller bearings instead of dovetail slots.
I was wondering about that. The truer the surfaces the more surface area is going to be in contact with each other. That's not necessarily a good thing. Isn't that how gauge blocks stick together?
Lube is a must for similar metals in a dovetail joint, but with a high viscosity grease, the more coplanar the surfaces are, the more freely they'll move. Any sort of lobing or nonplanar area will pressure the grease to squeeze out of tight spots, or fill voids in loose spots; this takes a significant amount of mechanical pressure, even on thinner greases. A more viscous grease will allow for a thinner film that still adequately protects, which is really what you want for surfaces that are going to vised together. I'd go with molybdenum disulfide for this application.
Invert the fasteners from the original and make them a channeled slot an suck. Them into each other. No perfect matting surface and less room for debris to be a issue and easier to produce n manufacture
Or roller pins like needle bearings
I feel a new patent coming along lol
Adam, if you see this, I encourage you to explore a metal surface treatment called WPC treatment. It’s essentially a micro sand blasting process that can create a hydrostatic bearing of air between two very tightly machined surfaces. Seems like a fun experimental application here.
It would be a cool mod to have a low profile set of fractal jaws as a vertical bed beneath the line of the horizontal jaws so you could have a support that also conforms to odd shapes to keep it registered before clamping down.
I would think that if you get the surfaces too true to each other, there will be greater friction due to the additional surface contact. Plus they've already proven easy to deform so as you remove material in the lapping, you will create larger gaps between the parts. So when you tighten the vice, the pieces will bend and then seize up.
What Adam proved is that tools need to be hardened.
I can see why you wanted to mill the channels: When gripping a concave workpiece with flat faces, you have two contact points per face. However, with a convex workpiece, you would have only one contact point per face. With the channel, you would have two contact points per face either way.
To make the channels, I suggest: While the vise is still fully assembled, clamp a thin straight strip of aluminum in the vise. Then center the mill or drill press on the aluminum strip and drill a hole along each small face. The softer aluminum should tend to keep the drill bit centered between the two faces.
I have a suspicion that when you milled out the core of the smallest fractals, you did two things: released pent up stresses in the metal and changed the hardness of the metal from the heat. Both can result in bowing and distortions. Since the lapped first, the new bends in the metal are now present in the fractals. They probably need to be relapped to account for their new shapes.
Hi Adam, I enjoyed this video and your explanation. The grease specialy for this purpose I would use EP2 (EP stands for Extreme Pressure)
Thats made for slow moving/ rubbing objects. I allways use it for the tappered bearings in the steering stem of a motorcycle, which barely moves but its under a lot of pressure. Grts from 'The Old Mechanic' 👨🔧--->🏍
I'm gunna have to try this for some old bikes of mine...
I'm using REMS spezial thread cutting oil for almost everything. This stuff is amazing for lubrication. It's so fine that as soon as you put it on anything, it flows into even the smallest gap.
As for the lapping advice, I wonder if you can take the concept of rubbing 3 surfaces together and apply it here? Do the parts fit upside down? If so, maybe try to lap them upside down, then right side up. That could give you A, B, and C surfaces to get them perfectly smooth.
The 3 plate method is for making flat surfaces. You wouldn't use it to fit 2 parts together like he's doing here.
I think the concept of the 3 surfaces is specifically for flat surfaces. As two surfaces rub and shape each other they will become shapes that mirror the other. The significance of three surfaces is that if you have surface A, B, and C, the only shape that allows them all to be mirrors of each other is perfectly flat. A mirrors B. B mirrors C. C Mirrors A
When lapping make sure you do it in the orientation of the force that will be applied when you start using the vice. Otherwise you are lapping a surface that isnt "load bearing"
For high pressure sliding surfaces I always use molybdenum disulfide grease. Doesn't smell that nice, but the 6 ton pill press has never been happier since we switched to it
Hey Adam. I would probably try Nano-Oil or sometimes it's called NanoLube. I usually use it on knife bearings and moving gun parts but I think it would probably do an excellent job on your vise.
Adam is about to go down a fixturing rabbit hole.
I know this sounds ridiculous but you were gonna be able to cut the grove perfectly if the tip of the bit, the fractal vice and the glass bottle are underwater. You have been an inspiration to me since MythBusters you are one of the most awesome human beings I have ever had the pleasure of knowing about thank you so much for doing what you do the way you do it.
the reason this works is beacuse the water puts pressure on the inside and outside off the glass, while also cooling it.
though id imagine he dosnt want to throw his vice in water lol
I think if you’re going to use this vice for mill work you should secure your work piece and then using some masking/painter tape to go over the top of the vice. It would prevent debris falling into all of the cracks.
some sort of sheet metal cover that only leaves enough of the last vice head exposed would do it too if he wanted to make it look pretty
I actually would love to hear more about the origins of precision, with how you actually go about doing the rubbing of rocks together to make flatness happen. And, if you happen to know, if there's a way to get a perfect cylinder.
You might take an interest in the video "Origins of Precision" on the channel of Machine Thinking. Not saying it's _everything_ you're looking for, but I found it nice.
This makes me think of those circular planes of ice that form naturally. As the river flows, the water eddies and swirls in a somewhat consistant pattern. Ice forms at the edges near the banks first, then starts to create a layer over the faster moving water, creating a spinning secton. The moving ice in the middle grinds against the edges of the unmoving ice, and eventually ceates an almost perfect circle. I know this is a little off topic, but it's a beautiful natural phenomena.
One way to think of the three flats is that you are removing the material that isn't a perfect surface, and the only perfect surfaces that makes all three rocks perfectly match is a flat plane. The trick that you don't get with a cylinder is that the flats are self-improving. With a cylinder, the parts wear away from each other, maybe improving the shaft is possible but you're always wallowing out the hole.
Look into the "Universal Measuring Machine" and Wayne Moore's "The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy"
Hey Adam, I am a huge fan and wish you to be safe and healthy! I know its not always the best for a camera, but a mask is always a great idea around glass dust! Love the vice!!
Adam its time to build a better camera mount! Loved every bit of your programs for the last 20+ years!
Never change, Mr. Savage. Thank you for making my childhood so amazing, and still in my adulthood. You and Jaime were and are some of my favorites to have ever walked the earth. And rip, Grant.
I love how he rotates the table the vice is on right at the begining but the vice itself stays in it's original orientation.
Grate job, . In the groove that you milled in each piece, you can put a special piece of rubber to better hold objects that tend to slide, such as the glass bottle.
Adam is the actual personification of chaotic good 😂
I dunno if I'm right or not, and i dont know anything about this stuff, but it seems like Adam modifying this made it funtion worse. Seemed like over tinkering a piece of machinery that was already functioning quite well.
We often do rubbings and we refer to them as "Frottage" worth looking up... it has more than one meaning. Also a personal fun fractal fact... In HS I did my sciencefair project about Benoit Mandelbrot and fractals... I was disqualified because it was before a computer category. Once again highly informative and entertaining.
The Further Adventures of the Fractal Vise is something I didn't expect to see today, and it's honestly perfect timing. After a pretty bad start to the week, this is so chilled out. Zen. Thanks.
Egad, im seeing Adam blow glass dust around, and im freaking out. Just about the worst abrasive dust you can make, and if/when it gets into the ways of the mill (or worse, lungs!) its bad news...
No idea as to the exact grit but I use finely powdered aluminum oxide (I think the supplier is Fisher) when polishing ion optics, you can use whatever lubricant (or solvent masquerading as) you want.
Always unexpected gems watching Adam at work. That alternate use of "worry" is new to me and yet makes so much sense. Reminds me of how the Chinese character for "research" combines the idioms of something like "grinding a stone to finest sand in a cave".
I immediately thought of a dog "worrying" a bone.
Watching Adam work reminds me of the constant fiddling, optimizing and puzzling that happens in software engineering. Working with real stuff is a physical element that just seems so much more satisfying. I wish I could go back in time and start over as an engineer.
You CAN go back and start over as an engineer, if that is your desire.I give you permission, lol. 😂
As a software engineer, I deeply resent your remark.
@@AdmiralQuality Relax, lol. Not everyone is satisfied by the same things, which keeps the world interesting.
@@wildflower1397Again, I resent the suggestion that we achieve things by random flailing. That is *not* engineering!
@@AdmiralQuality Fiddling, optimizing, and puzzling are not flailing, lol. They are the description of the experience of learning. Fiddling is learning your framework or materials and exploring what they can do, and the limits they have. Trial and error often lead to amazing new designs and adaptations. Optimizing is looking at flaws and figuring out how to overcome them, or cutting out and streamlining where needed. Puzzling is thinking about potential solutions, considering the project and it's implications overall or in specifics, and using your mind and creatvity to figure things out.
Toddlers, birds, monkeys, octopi, and everything with intelligence does these things on some level, including humans of all levels and experience. Watch a toddler figure out how to stack blocks of various sizes, and you will see these things all happening at once. Resentment is a waste of time, especially when you could be busy elsewhere being delighted by something new.
I love Adam so much, this guy is not only a genius but he takes so much pleasure in just rubbing his tools together
For additional lubricant try firearm oil. That should keep everything silky smooth
Way oil probably works better for this purpose, it is designed basically for this application
Woohooooo more fractal vise content! That thing is amazing and i'm very jealous of you just owning one to take apart and investigate. I'd love one even though i don't have a workshop... my dad has several sheds/workshops and lathes but it's far too nice for him he'd only muck it up xD
With the lapping, maybe start with a much lower grit and maybe lap each piece IN PLACE, since when they're all in series in the vise, they are being weighted front and back differently to when you're freely moving them just against another piece (As you said yourself in your 3 rocks tale, 2 rocks allows for imperfections and curves, 3 rocks leads to a flat surface). I know it will probably make the process take much longer to have to dissemble, lap, and them reassemble the whole thing before working the lapping fluid in, but i feel like it would be worth it for a more accurate result.
Sorry but we don't say "Haitch" in the UK, only the uneducated underclass pronounce it like that... usually from "Tut Norf" (which is still actually south of where i live but anyway...). Most regular humans with educations pronounce it "aytch" like a sensible person. As my english professor used to say "Aytch! Aytch! We're not farmers! We're not making HAY in this classroom!".
That has to be the coolest tool I've ever seen. What can't fractals do? Adam, you're the best. You're so funny when the camera keeps falling. It's nice to see the rest of your shop :)
I would like a one day build ”A silent camera holder” 😂