When using Cinematic Studio Strings (all their libs), it's important to set up "negative track delays" in your template. I suggest -60 for "most" of the CSS . Saves you time from moving notes around. Also, use CC 64 (sus pedal) will give you smooth transitions between the long notes. Removing the pain of overlapping notes in editing process. Thx for your video!!!
Heya thanks for the tips, I prefer not to use negative track delay unless I’m quantising everything as I generally like to play things in in real time(even if there’s slight latency). If negative delay is active by default it will mess with the timings of what I performed in (relative to the track)- unless I’m missing something?
@@vincecomposerthe negative delay matter is something I was too about to ask! Even if I believe there is not a strict rule for programming VSTs (and I’ve programmed strings the same way of yours for years…) I found the negative delay + quantizing technique more reliable lately… I do usually perform my strings parts and then quantize them, the negative delay is always set on my tracks. I’ve never had a problem (other than basic latency) with my performance. I’m pretty sure that negative delay just applies when you playback a midi region and it anticipates each midi note by the negative delay time, so you shouldn’t have any problem performing 🤔🤔 Anyway the video content is very useful and interesting for anyone that has to program strings, looking forward to see the next ones 😄😄
@@gioo_wav yes I sometimes use this method as well, especially if I'm in a rush and I just need things to sound tighter or if it's a background part. But I prefer to capture all the performances in real time if possible. I find the small timing nuances add up to a more natural sounding result (IF the lines are all performed with care and musicality). All I meant regarding 'messing with the timings' was that if you record onto a track with negative delay set, the resulting sound played back won't reflect the timing that you heard when you performed in (because it's been shifted by the delay). So if I want to have some material quantised and some played in, I'd need to use 2 separate tracks and make sure I process them the same way. I do this sometimes and it's fine but for specifically for these legato patches, I usually find it's quickest to just play them in accurately and make any small tweaks as required.
@@vincecomposer I believe ones audience should get the facts, is all. A quicker workflow is more important w a deadline in mind. Also when printing parts for players, you gotta be on the grid....:))
@@vincecomposer ok now I understand what you meant! Thank you for the clarification Again, I find that very interesting even if it’s not the method I prefer to program my Strings, but there’s no strict rule on the matter so…🙃 Looking forward to see part 2!
Nice. Being a orchestra performer in college and a band director for 30 years, strings are a unique beast regardless of performance levels: 2nd violins tend to be behind, concertmasters tend to showboat, violas tend to play timid at times, cellos grasp at the melody when given and tend to get too excited, and basses can be clunky. I've also been emulating strings for a pit orchestra scenario since the late 1980's, starting with a Juno-???, then to various modules throughout the years, breath controllers, an EVI, and for the past 10-15 years have been using Presonus' Notion (their soon to die composition software program) tapping/performance function. Basically a written score played back live using a tap/beat to follow the conductor/singers nuances in real time (including vamps, subdivisions, rubatos, etc.). Very different from your composing scenario, I need to bring paper (once transcribed) to life using those aforementioned quirks, using delays, volume offsets, forced balance mistakes. Once I started doing that, our pit had a more human feel to it we never had before. Too many times I hear other live string emulations in other groups (normally a pianist that just discovered synths) that sound like a cheap karaoke laserdisc from the 90's. It's great that you're taking time to get almost every nuance in your compositions for a more human/emotional outcome. Awesome! Waiting for part 2.
The breath bite midi controller was new to me, what a great idea! it is outside my budget limits ATM but definitely something to add to my wish-list. Thanks for sharing your method!
Long time no speak, Vince. Another excellent 'on the fly' vid. PS 1:14 Absolutely. PPS - 23:11 Counter melody underneath? 'To resolve or not to resolve, that is the question' :). If you were feeling a little bit Wagnerian you might decide to leave us all on the edge of our seats for an hour...or two...
Hi Vince! Loved this vid and you make it sound so good. I learned a lot and one thing I'm thinking about is what breath controller would you recommend? many thanks, Peter
Cheers Vince! First time on your channel and instantly subscribed. Very nice peek at your composing process. I'm very fond of this no-nonsense approach. Thanks again and looking forward to more of your videos!
Really enjoyed gaining insights into your process, thank you. I tend to approach it very similarly, but don't typically do the piano part initially. Your edit skills are especially useful to observe. You certainly have more than one talent, not only musically, but in the ability to communicate very directly and purposefully. Subscribed!
Ha! You read my mind. I plan to buy CSS when it goes on sale black Friday. I only have Nashville, Musio and freebies at the moment which works but to get the same kind of controlled, dry sound of CSS takes too much fiddling. I've been waiting for 2 months and I'm dying to get my greedy little hands on it. Great video. Thank you for taking the time to do it! I'm looking forward to the next one.
Thank you very much for sharing your approach! It makes me rethink how I could improve my workflow when it comes to mockups. I'm learning how to do mockups and the struggle is real haha What would be your go to library for small ensemble or soloist? Great video Vince! can't wait for part 2!!
Hey! Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! My go to Chambers strings right now, is probably sample modelling ensemble strings, but they lack a little bit of grit, so I would blend that with the cremona strings from native instruments. For more soloistic, solo string parts, I tend to gravitate towards the swam series.
I always learn something useful from your videos Vince! Love the idea of combining the Exp. and Mod. to ta single BreathCtrl. Do you have any dedicated videos explaining your Logic workflow using key commands and anything else that gets you away from clicking and menu diving? Thats been my major goal as of late. I spend all day editing and mixing audio for work that by the evening when i wanna compose my wrists feel like they're gonna fall off. Thanks for all you do!
Hey! I probably will make a dedicated key commands video at some point but check out these old ones: th-cam.com/video/ernEXhaZUlI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_S5sfN49gEMBAkIX th-cam.com/video/gtb0Su17TxM/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/vXNmD3InWrI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=27gaKIEf0vjJc5Pb In the third one I recommend a tool called Plugsearch which i recommend checking out as a way to quickly load plugins. Also 'gain control', made by the same company.
Thank you for your very informative video. I have question, would this DAW audio output be the end product which you would submit as audio to the video production, or do you notate it, give it to an orchestra to maybe produce a more realistic sound, or does it vary?
You seem to have a few nifty things setup in Logic, having oatches available in your library. Have you done or would you do a video on that? One thing I'd really benefit from is a regined workflow so I can express my ideas more in the moment. Would mean a lot! Thanks, Joel.
This is a great attitude to have. My workflow is improving all the time but here’s a video that might be useful (but not exhaustive). A lot of it comes down to your preferred way of working (eg template or no template) good luck! th-cam.com/video/vXNmD3InWrI/w-d-xo.html
as a beginner , can I use the strings that come with Logic pro or is there some Free library I can Download because there is no use me wasting money on a pro Library at this stage .
Really dumb question - are you creating music that was always conceived with the aim of being recorded by a live orchestra, or is the DAW output (essentially) the actual finished product?
Not dumb at all! The techniques I describe here apply to both situations (since a demo for a client will generally need to be of a certain standard even if we are planning to replace it with live instruments). What varies however is the amount of time i dedicate to finessing the samples - if samples are the final product, I'll generally spend more time making sure they sound as expressive as possible.
Yes I also play in real time and use a traditional standalone multitrack . Ensemble patch then overlay with legato and blend . Vst still isn't right really
Tuning. Tuning. Tuning. 12 tone equal tempered strings will never sound like real strings because real string players always "dynamically" retune their melodies and chords. They actually don't play within the constraints of strict cold 12 tone equal temperament imposed by machines.
@@RaymondDoerr personally I don’t! But if you’re hearing something as wrong in the tuning there’s no reason you can’t go in and make improvements here and there. It’s a question of how much time you want to spend and where your priorities lie.
FOR PRESENTERS OF VST DEMOS that speak louder than the vst= FOR PRESENTERS OF VST DEMOS learn to make demos: the prominence (the star, THE DESTAC, THE MAIN SOUND TO APEAR IN THE VST demo) must be the vst, not you... DO YOU UNDERSTAND or are you morom? .................. .......LEARN TO RECORD DEMOS.....despite the regrets this demo is fantastic, but other thing that decreases the value of this demo is youtubers saying all the time "incredible"......."wow"........WHO HAS TO FIND IT FANTASTIC IS WHO LISTENING, NOT WHO PRESENTS ....... you SAY" IT'S FANTASTIC" DOESN'T DO ANYTHING, SO MANY ARE THE LIARS IN THIS WORLD, WHAT DECIDES IS WHAT PEOPLE LISTEN TO a vst, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? and IT'S RIDICULOUS TO IMITATE TORLEY'S LAUGHTER...... another thing that annoys me is this pile of big drools in the comentaries, they only praise, they don't see any defects.... you all youtubers talk too much, it would be wonderful don't say anything, as a few wise youtubers “PLAY, NO TALK”, or at least talk lower than the vst................sometimes I had the hard job of editing the video of a vst demo, erasing almost all the speechs, only a few I thought might be necessary, video that also had the same defect= speech louder than the sound of vst.......I would really have to work ..
When using Cinematic Studio Strings (all their libs), it's important to set up "negative track delays" in your template. I suggest -60 for "most" of the CSS . Saves you time from moving notes around. Also, use CC 64 (sus pedal) will give you smooth transitions between the long notes. Removing the pain of overlapping notes in editing process. Thx for your video!!!
Heya thanks for the tips, I prefer not to use negative track delay unless I’m quantising everything as I generally like to play things in in real time(even if there’s slight latency). If negative delay is active by default it will mess with the timings of what I performed in (relative to the track)- unless I’m missing something?
@@vincecomposerthe negative delay matter is something I was too about to ask! Even if I believe there is not a strict rule for programming VSTs (and I’ve programmed strings the same way of yours for years…) I found the negative delay + quantizing technique more reliable lately… I do usually perform my strings parts and then quantize them, the negative delay is always set on my tracks. I’ve never had a problem (other than basic latency) with my performance. I’m pretty sure that negative delay just applies when you playback a midi region and it anticipates each midi note by the negative delay time, so you shouldn’t have any problem performing 🤔🤔
Anyway the video content is very useful and interesting for anyone that has to program strings, looking forward to see the next ones 😄😄
@@gioo_wav yes I sometimes use this method as well, especially if I'm in a rush and I just need things to sound tighter or if it's a background part. But I prefer to capture all the performances in real time if possible. I find the small timing nuances add up to a more natural sounding result (IF the lines are all performed with care and musicality). All I meant regarding 'messing with the timings' was that if you record onto a track with negative delay set, the resulting sound played back won't reflect the timing that you heard when you performed in (because it's been shifted by the delay). So if I want to have some material quantised and some played in, I'd need to use 2 separate tracks and make sure I process them the same way. I do this sometimes and it's fine but for specifically for these legato patches, I usually find it's quickest to just play them in accurately and make any small tweaks as required.
@@vincecomposer I believe ones audience should get the facts, is all. A quicker workflow is more important w a deadline in mind. Also when printing parts for players, you gotta be on the grid....:))
@@vincecomposer ok now I understand what you meant! Thank you for the clarification
Again, I find that very interesting even if it’s not the method I prefer to program my Strings, but there’s no strict rule on the matter so…🙃
Looking forward to see part 2!
Nice. Being a orchestra performer in college and a band director for 30 years, strings are a unique beast regardless of performance levels: 2nd violins tend to be behind, concertmasters tend to showboat, violas tend to play timid at times, cellos grasp at the melody when given and tend to get too excited, and basses can be clunky.
I've also been emulating strings for a pit orchestra scenario since the late 1980's, starting with a Juno-???, then to various modules throughout the years, breath controllers, an EVI, and for the past 10-15 years have been using Presonus' Notion (their soon to die composition software program) tapping/performance function. Basically a written score played back live using a tap/beat to follow the conductor/singers nuances in real time (including vamps, subdivisions, rubatos, etc.). Very different from your composing scenario, I need to bring paper (once transcribed) to life using those aforementioned quirks, using delays, volume offsets, forced balance mistakes. Once I started doing that, our pit had a more human feel to it we never had before. Too many times I hear other live string emulations in other groups (normally a pianist that just discovered synths) that sound like a cheap karaoke laserdisc from the 90's. It's great that you're taking time to get almost every nuance in your compositions for a more human/emotional outcome. Awesome! Waiting for part 2.
This was so fun to watch and the sequence is quite beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to show your process.
A full serie will be amazing so after strings, woodwinds, brass, perc , hybrid, cinématic synth etc
The breath bite midi controller was new to me, what a great idea! it is outside my budget limits ATM but definitely something to add to my wish-list. Thanks for sharing your method!
it's pricey, isn't it?
Long time no speak, Vince. Another excellent 'on the fly' vid. PS 1:14 Absolutely. PPS - 23:11 Counter melody underneath? 'To resolve or not to resolve, that is the question' :). If you were feeling a little bit Wagnerian you might decide to leave us all on the edge of our seats for an hour...or two...
Good stuff Vince!
Hi Vince! Loved this vid and you make it sound so good. I learned a lot and one thing I'm thinking about is what breath controller would you recommend? many thanks, Peter
Hey Peter good to hear from you. It’s the Tec control breath and bite 2. Very nice bit of kit!
@@vincecomposer Super cool on this and I'll explore further! And man, can't wait for Part 2 of your series. all best, P
Cheers Vince! First time on your channel and instantly subscribed. Very nice peek at your composing process. I'm very fond of this no-nonsense approach. Thanks again and looking forward to more of your videos!
Thanks very much for the sub! Glad it was useful.
Really enjoyed gaining insights into your process, thank you. I tend to approach it very similarly, but don't typically do the piano part initially. Your edit skills are especially useful to observe. You certainly have more than one talent, not only musically, but in the ability to communicate very directly and purposefully. Subscribed!
Appreciate the feedback! Thanks for taking the time to drop a comment 😊
Thanks, this video was very helpful ❤
Really good, more please!
part 2 is recorded and on it's way :)
Nice demonstration! I assign vibrato to tilting my head to the right or lifting my head. This gives me a more controlled sound than biting.
Nice 👍
Thanks for sharing your videos , just wondering how did you change the logic gui colors ?
I use an app called LPX colorizer
www.creationauts.com/products/lpx-colorizer-update/
very nice, thank you for the guide 😁
no probs1
Ha! You read my mind. I plan to buy CSS when it goes on sale black Friday. I only have Nashville, Musio and freebies at the moment which works but to get the same kind of controlled, dry sound of CSS takes too much fiddling. I've been waiting for 2 months and I'm dying to get my greedy little hands on it. Great video. Thank you for taking the time to do it! I'm looking forward to the next one.
Thanks for the support! Css is great I’m sure you’ll enjoy it 😊
Great stuff, I've been starting with notes and automating back, but building it in looks much more immediate.
Very nice video, thank you !!!
Nice, very informative!
Great video!
Thank you very much for sharing your approach! It makes me rethink how I could improve my workflow when it comes to mockups. I'm learning how to do mockups and the struggle is real haha
What would be your go to library for small ensemble or soloist?
Great video Vince! can't wait for part 2!!
Hey! Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! My go to Chambers strings right now, is probably sample modelling ensemble strings, but they lack a little bit of grit, so I would blend that with the cremona strings from native instruments. For more soloistic, solo string parts, I tend to gravitate towards the swam series.
Awesome! I'm going to give them a listen. Thank you so much for the reply!
I always learn something useful from your videos Vince! Love the idea of combining the Exp. and Mod. to ta single BreathCtrl. Do you have any dedicated videos explaining your Logic workflow using key commands and anything else that gets you away from clicking and menu diving? Thats been my major goal as of late. I spend all day editing and mixing audio for work that by the evening when i wanna compose my wrists feel like they're gonna fall off. Thanks for all you do!
Hey! I probably will make a dedicated key commands video at some point but check out these old ones:
th-cam.com/video/ernEXhaZUlI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_S5sfN49gEMBAkIX
th-cam.com/video/gtb0Su17TxM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/vXNmD3InWrI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=27gaKIEf0vjJc5Pb
In the third one I recommend a tool called Plugsearch which i recommend checking out as a way to quickly load plugins. Also 'gain control', made by the same company.
nice video, thank you! What is the name of the breath controller? i want one 😀😃😄
you're welcome! www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-bite-controller-2
Thank you for your very informative video. I have question, would this DAW audio output be the end product which you would submit as audio to the video production, or do you notate it, give it to an orchestra to maybe produce a more realistic sound, or does it vary?
It varies! But In either case getting the sample strings to sound realistic and expressive is a good thing to do.
You seem to have a few nifty things setup in Logic, having oatches available in your library. Have you done or would you do a video on that? One thing I'd really benefit from is a regined workflow so I can express my ideas more in the moment. Would mean a lot!
Thanks,
Joel.
This is a great attitude to have. My workflow is improving all the time but here’s a video that might be useful (but not exhaustive). A lot of it comes down to your preferred way of working (eg template or no template) good luck!
th-cam.com/video/vXNmD3InWrI/w-d-xo.html
as a beginner , can I use the strings that come with Logic pro or is there some Free library I can Download because there is no use me wasting money on a pro Library at this stage .
@@edwardmacnab354 www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-symphony-orchestra-discover check out the bbc symphony orchestra free edition from Spitfire!
where do you get that breath controller?
www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-bite-controller-2 good piece of kit!
gratitude for this video, could you pass me information about the midi controller with the breath? genius
Hi Martin it's the tec control breath and bite 2
www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-bite-controller-2
Sir.. what is that midi gadget that helps you to "blow" midi parms?
Tec control Breath and Bite 2! www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-bite-controller-2
do you sell midi for strings arrangement? I would purchase them!!!
I don't! But thanks for your interest.
Really dumb question - are you creating music that was always conceived with the aim of being recorded by a live orchestra, or is the DAW output (essentially) the actual finished product?
Not dumb at all! The techniques I describe here apply to both situations (since a demo for a client will generally need to be of a certain standard even if we are planning to replace it with live instruments). What varies however is the amount of time i dedicate to finessing the samples - if samples are the final product, I'll generally spend more time making sure they sound as expressive as possible.
What wind controller is that?
Tec control breath and bite 2
Yes I also play in real time and use a traditional standalone multitrack . Ensemble patch then overlay with legato and blend . Vst still isn't right really
old school! do you have any music online be curious to see how it sounds
Could send you a wav file do you have an email
@@MaxCardwell-y7k vincentkwebb@googlemail.com cheers!
I think his Andrew Llod Webber brother!
Sorry to disappoint!
Tuning. Tuning. Tuning. 12 tone equal tempered strings will never sound like real strings because real string players always "dynamically" retune their melodies and chords. They actually don't play within the constraints of strict cold 12 tone equal temperament imposed by machines.
100%. As much as I enjoy tinkering with virtual instruments there's no substitute for the real thing!
How much should one play with pitch bend to tweak the temperament/tuning balance?
@@RaymondDoerr personally I don’t! But if you’re hearing something as wrong in the tuning there’s no reason you can’t go in and make improvements here and there. It’s a question of how much time you want to spend and where your priorities lie.
@@vincecomposerthank you
Instead of talking so much nonsense, you should say how you assembled these strings (what vst you used, in what proportion each 1, how much layers)
In this demo I used cinematic studio strings (just one legato patch per part)
FOR PRESENTERS OF VST DEMOS that speak louder than the vst= FOR PRESENTERS OF VST DEMOS learn to make demos:
the prominence (the star, THE DESTAC, THE MAIN SOUND TO APEAR IN THE VST demo) must be the vst, not you...
DO YOU UNDERSTAND or are you morom? .................. .......LEARN TO RECORD DEMOS.....despite the regrets this demo is fantastic, but other thing that decreases the value of this demo is youtubers saying all the time "incredible"......."wow"........WHO HAS TO FIND IT FANTASTIC IS WHO LISTENING, NOT WHO PRESENTS ....... you SAY" IT'S FANTASTIC" DOESN'T DO ANYTHING, SO MANY ARE THE LIARS IN THIS WORLD, WHAT DECIDES IS WHAT PEOPLE LISTEN TO a vst, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? and IT'S RIDICULOUS TO IMITATE TORLEY'S LAUGHTER...... another thing that annoys me is this pile of big drools in the comentaries, they only praise, they don't see any defects.... you all youtubers talk too much, it would be wonderful don't say anything, as a few wise youtubers “PLAY, NO TALK”, or at least talk lower than the vst................sometimes I had the hard job of editing the video of a vst demo, erasing almost all the speechs, only a few I thought might be necessary, video that also had the same defect= speech louder than the sound of vst.......I would really have to work ..
Thanks for the feedback I’m sorry you found my style annoying!
i played STOP to stop you anoying talking and went away