Yeah, there is no "fruit _or_ vegetable" quandary. Botanically, I don't think there's properly any such thing as a vegetable, but colloquially, "vegetable" and "vegetable matter" can indicate plants or the edible parts of them (which doesn't necessarily exclude fruit). Culinarily, a tomato is very much a vegetable (just consider what it tastes like and how it's used in food), as are many other things that are botanical fruits (like bell peppers, eggplants, cucumbers, squash, beans, corn, olives, pumpkins, peas, okra, avocados...). If it were impossible to be both a botanical fruit and culinary vegetable, we'd have to pretty much ditch the culinary distinction altogether, and shake in fear of exactly what a fruit salad might include.
Some of the things that Joss did with this series.... At the time, Fox was using the standard TV aspect ratio but Joss blocked the scenes to require widescreen aspect ratio, so he had the scenes recorded by both camera setups and shown in dailies, and the widescreen version dominated. Joss wanted to give viewers time to process the scenes longer by including more frames 'cut-to-black'. The problem was the network had machines that recognized the blackout frames as the signal to cut to local commercials. When he learned about it in production notes, he worked on the darkest hue possible before triggering the cutoff signal. He protected it [patent, trademark, copyright, whatever applied.] For the unique camera touches, the director of photography traded in the newest lenses for older lenses that could do lens flares. Joss fought the network to maintain the marriage between Zoe and Wash, as the network did not want them paired.
I was watching one of many car chases in LA, and the driver did a quick u-turn and the announcer said that 'He just pulled a Crazy Ivan'! I nearly fell out of my chair.
It's funny to hear you guys talking about first episodes being an hour and a half. Star Trek shows starting with TNG all had "two hour" pilot episodes (about 90 minutes after commercials), as did SeaQuest DSV, Babylon 5, and many others. 😄
Series premiere used to be an anticipated TV event before streaming. It was appointment TV that launched the show and hopefully got high ratings for the network.
It might feel longer reacting to something, since you can't just sit back and enjoy it, and are cognizant of the fact that you're "on the clock", but I have to say that this hasn't ever seemed long to me. Maybe there's also some distinction between movies and TV shows, where the former are expected to be longer, and their length is accepted on that basis, while it's viewed as abnormal and therefore off-putting for a show? I have heard a sizable minority of people say this first double-episode of Firefly is slow, but it never seemed like that way to me. I'm not sure what the consensus is though. Maybe other people feel like it's slow but haven't voiced that fact, or maybe it _is_ just a minority that feels that way. I think there was a time period (after shows began to be more arc-y, but before everything was freely and easily accessible to stream) when there was an extra incentive to start a show off with a double episode, so as to build the world and get more established than you could in a single one.
Yeah. It used to be VERY common to have a premier night for a show on a Sunday night in place of showing a movie so that no other shows got their time slots bumped by the double length episode and then after that the show was moved to a regular time slot. Quantum Leap, I think every Star Trek show after TOS, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis, and many others. The first episode for the 1980s Buck Rogers series actually had a theatrical release and then the TV release 6 months later with a few edits and a few short extra scenes shot.
I do enjoy when someone says that it didn't need to be feature length and then extol the virtue of taking time to introduce the characters and the antagonist. That seems contrary to me.
Correction: It only got a half season! Never even got to finish the first season. Also the networks aired the episodes out of order, change what night it was on just about every week, the pilot episode was the last one they aired and never even aired the last three episodes!
When I heard you saying you would be watching this, my reaction was: "Oh no, they watch things in release order, that's not going to go well." Then I saw the thumbnail and was so happy. The network really messed up when they aired it. Hope you enjoy the ride.
The network didn't understand the show. Blew the marketing, showed episodes out of order, preempted some episodes, didn't show others, and then wondered why people weren't following it.
They didn't get even one season. It was cancelled at the midpoint of the first season. The "Dammit Joss" bit is going to get old fast. For the record, Fillion recently said he saw nothing to support the (vague) allegations against Whedon while working on "Firefly"and he said that he would work with him tomorrow if he had the opportunity. The theatrical film, "Serenity", should be considered the series finale. It doesn't answer all of the unresolved questions, but it does wrap up the main ones.
Whedon was just another casualty of the #WokeWhinyActors who think every criticism of how a scene was acted and any suggestion of alternate ways to shoot the scene are direct attacks on the actors themselves. These are people who think words are the exact same thing as physical violence. Personally, I'd much prefer an ass-chewing to getting punched in the face repeatedly since I'm still grounded in reality. If you look up "most difficult directors who work with in history"...Whedon isn't even on the list.
Just to add: "The River Tam Sessions" were released as 5 movie promos for the movie "Serenity". Combined they are a little over 8 minutes total. For them, release order makes a better mini-story than chronological order.
@@dunringill1747 Only, DON'T watch them BEFORE the movie !!! They mean nothing and add nothing important to the story. In fact, the detract from "the mystery that was" !!!
It's heartbreaking to hear the Joss bashing, because even Fillion has said he'd work with him again tomorrow if he could. Look up the list of men AND women that have worked with him on multiple projects, and I'm pretty sure if you're a horrible person, people wouldn't come back. I have spoken with technical people that have worked for him and said he's a fantastic guy and very kind. This doesn't mean he never did anything wrong. Maybe he did, but if you've ever worked a day in your life, we've all had bosses treating us bad. And we've all had bad days where we say something we regret. We aren't talking about anything illegal, and I can guarantee, there's a LOT of worse people in movies and tv shows you love.
that's the thing. the famous story of Alan Tudyk giving Joss the red button to call everyone home once the series ended... idk there is definitely more to the story. Plus - most great artists generally aren't the greatest people behind the scenes.
Some important things about this show are, first: no aliens. Second: if they say something that sounds like Mandarin, it's because they're speaking Mandarin.
The second episode was written to replace this as the pilot episode, because executives didn't think there was enough action. So, if they seem to be restating a lot of the same information, that's why. Firefly was originally greenlit by the previous management of the network. The new management didn't care about it and basically killed it through lack of advertising, timeslot preemptions, and airing the episodes out of order. (The Joss-bashing does get old really quickly, really. Deserved or not.)
In my opinion, this episode suffers in that Mal comes off as a jerk most of the episode. The second leans more into Nathan Fillion's roguish charm and comedy skills.
@@cboscari Why are you talking about the 2nd episode ??? At this point, they haven't even seen it yet. You should only be talking about what they just saw ... and nothing more !!! Additionally, I think Mal came off the way he did for a reason ... to show the strength of his character and that he thinks fast and acts faster. Remember, at the beginning of this episode, there was only Mal, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kayleigh and Inara. They didn't pick up Shepard Book or Simon and River until this episode was well underway. They didn't really know the "others", so it wasn't a crew/family yet. Inara was always away and the other were crew. They didn't have the luxury of "being friends". This series gives Mal time to relax and eventually mellow/evolve with the rest of the crew ... as the show progresses.
Most shows from the 70s to 2000s had a double episode to introduce the show. It was very common. Some did it a week apart, some did a movie for the first one. Also, the pastor never betrays his faith, you missed on that one.
The thing about Malcolm Reynolds psychologically he’s recoiled into himself, and sacrificed every moral and belief in order to keep going. Deep down he is a idealistic hero, and sees his crew as his family his ship as his world. basically he’s a broken man still healing from the war.
A 90-minute pilot weirds y'all out? That weirds ME out. :P I am subbed to and watch way more than 100 reactors ... music, TV, film. Y'all are easily in my Top Twenty favorites. Some reactors I skip when they cover something I don't care about but I'm a Trekkie from the first airing of the first episode when I was a tween, and that's how I caught on to you guys. Keep up the great work!
I subbed for your Firefly journey. This is a classic. Double length pilots were the standard back then. Also: Seasons averaged from 22-24 episodes. Joss Whedon had a contract for 5 seasons / 22-24 episodes to complete his story. Firefly was sabotaged on purpose. Every dirty trick in the book was used to get it canceled. There was an internal executive power struggle at FOX. It didn't matter how good a show was, the opposition wanted it gone. Firefly is a hybrid of being both episodic & sequential. Dynamic character growth and important reference call backs connect the series in a specific order.
Joss Whedon wrote this as an allegory for a Confederate soldier trying to live in the untamed west after losing the American Civil War. That is also the origin of the character John Carter (John Carter of Mars books) who was a Confederate captain living in the untamed west after losing the American Civil War.
Something that helped viewers with the context of the show was the opening narration that played before the start of each episode, but has not been included in the streaming platforms or the DVDs. Opening Narration for first 4 episodes. Book: After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some...disagreement on that point. After the War, many of the Independents who had fought and lost drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggled to get by with the most basic technologies; a ship would bring you work, a gun would help you keep it. A captain's goal was simple: find a crew, find a job, keep flying. Opening Narration: episodes 7,8,9, and 11 Mal: Here's how it is: The Earth got used up, so we moved out and terraformed a whole new galaxy of Earths. Some rich and flush with the new technologies, some not so much. The Central Planets, them as formed the Alliance, waged war to bring everyone under their rule; a few idiots tried to fight it, among them myself. I'm Malcolm Reynolds, captain of Serenity. She's a transport ship; Firefly class. Got a good crew: fighters, pilot, mechanic. We even picked up a preacher for some reason, and a bona-fide companion. There's a doctor, too, took his genius sister outta some Alliance camp, so they're keepin' a low profile. You understand. You got a job, we can do it, don't much care what it is.
I don't get what's your problem with Joss? Did you read actual complains against. One actress felt bad because she wasn't sure she was important on the set. And she blamed Joss that she didn't feel important enough. Another thought that he was playing favorites and called it abuse. Also him questioning an actress about getting a new tattoo during the shooting was decried as attacking her religion. Are you seriously taking these people's complains as reasonable?
I think they are just joking with his name without actually doing their research.. he is just another example of how cancel culture works in our society today unfortunately 😕
Firefly is a well-written show. It was appreciated by fans, but not by the executives at the networks. Sadly it got cut short before it really got going.
I never got the chance to appreciate it when it was on the air. Whoever made the commercials for the show clearly didn't "get" it, and badly misrepresented it to the point where I thought it looked awful. So I never sought it out.
@@stuffyouotterlistento1461 The print ad used nationwide was a full page shot of River in the cryo case with the vapor streams. The question "Who is the girl in the box?" Not only is it a major spoiler, but the episode did not air until the series was cancelled and it was used to complete airtime commitments. The cast was not included in the network's Fall Season Preview at all, and reviews could only go on the description of space hookers and burnt out hippies [Wash].
Can you imagine what would happen if a reaction channel went through the whole season and then said, "That's enough. We don't need to watch the movie"? 🙂 (I think there would be some disagreement about that course of action.)
Another show I place in the category "cut down in it's prime" was Space:Above and Beyond. The effects don't really hold up to modern standards, but Shirley Walker's music and the storytelling make it a definite classic for me also. Great to see you guys reaction to this beloved show, and truly I would watch yall react to an ice cube melting lol. Keep up the great work!
I love Space: Above and Beyond, though I get why it was cancelled. It was brilliant in many ways, but mediocre at best the rest of the time. It hits every war movie trope and often clumsily. But I love it anyways for those moments where it really shines.
Nobody ever talks about SAAB. It wasn't perfect but it had a lot of potential. I think a reboot would be worth it but hardly anyone seems to remember it.
Think about it ... The APPROPRIATE punishment for "the guys who decided to cancel this amazing show" would be for the ladies to "NOT screw the guys ... ever again" 👀🙌😁😉👍.
love that you guys are going through these shows. Your repport and comments are always interesting and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more! I am very excited about your next Star Trek episode, the Doomsday Machine! certainly one of my favorites :-)
Malcolm Reynolds and Zoe Alleyne were in the war together. NCOs who became de facto leaders of the remaining troops in the shown Battle of Serenity Valley. After the order to lay down arms, they became prisoners of war. Once paroled to civilian life, Mal eventually became the ship captain and Zoe was by his side as first officer. Crew [Ranked by seniority] Captain Malcolm Reynolds First Officer Zoe Washburne - wife Pilot "Wash" - husband Mechanic Kaylee Frye [Public Relations] Jayne Cobb Passengers [Ambassador] Companion Inara Serra Shepherd Book [Fugitive] Simon Tam - Medic [Fugitive] River Tam Lawrence - Fed, picked up at Eavesdown Docks, dropped off at Whitefall. Patience - ruler of Whitefall, penchant for shooting Mal.
This episode was intended to introduce the entire cast. The fact that Fox refused to show it first seriously damaged the show's prospects. Having seen this episode first you're prepared to watch and enjoy the rest of the show - you won't be wondering who everyone is. Yes, future episodes will go into greater detail about the individual characters, and they'll grow and change over time, but this 90 minute premier episode lays the foundation for that.
BTW the Reavers were supposed to be the BIG Scarry dragon held over everyone for a number of seasons before a big season opener or ending where parts of Firefly are taken up. I would love to have had a game like Elite Dangerous or Star Citizen set in this universe. In your ship one minute haling cargo then transferring it to a wagon pulled by oxen and sending out Outriders on horseback to cover you like Red Dead, as you plod along to a town to sell stuff. The dichotomy works so well Thank you Lucis for bringing the Spaghetti western / Si-Fi to life. I don't know about the back story about Joss Whedon but whatever ells he may have been or dun this show was and will be a massive hit.
Having subscribed only recently around the end of your TOS / beginning of TAS watch throughs it is great to see how the format has evolved yet the core stayed the same. Wish I found you sooner, thanks guys.
It's all about the great characters on this show. After the American Civil War, some of the former Confederate soldiers migrated from the southern states towards the western coast. Some became outlaws and lived on the fringes of society. Firefly is the story of those kinds of people living on the edges of habitable planets/moons and ships and how they survived after the war.
So glad you guys are watching this one, even if it might make the Star Trek episodes come out less frequently. LOL This series was a true classic in the making, tragically cut down in its youth before it could ever really spread its wings... RIP the great Ron Glass.✌💯
I never really knew anything about Joss . I only knew he did Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. When it was airing on TV I never got into it. Sometimes preemptively cut for Baseball. Discovered it here on TH-cam and bought the DVD and wore the discs out. I just love the show second to Star Trek. I love the universe Joss created , never knew much about any of the negative stories about him. Never pay attention to stuff like that. The show hooked me. I'm very disappointed it didn't complete several seasons. Could've almost been as big as Star Trek. IMHO
The camera work on the ship is unique because they actually built the entire ship as a set, not different separate sets. The literally built the entire ship interior as one set.
I think Firefly still stands as the only live action 'Space Western'. There are however at least three anime that qualify as part of the genre. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun and Outlaw Star. : )
Let go of roasting Joss Whedon . ... . That will get old real quick. Just keep watching. This will go places you cannot predict. Also Zoe is Mal's second in command. Jayne is the muscle.
Guys, I challenge you to name a better character development / relationship show that succeeds so well (The FF Fandom) in only 13 episodes + a movie (Serenity). Welcome to the browncoats!
For me, that spot is taken by Babylon 5, but Firefly is definitely part of my top 5 shows. And yeah, screw Fox for cancelling it. The _special_ hell and all that...
Hello Target Audience! First time viewer.... I am a Trekkie, but i'm here for Firefly. I may check out your videos on the original series. It's refreshing, not many other channels out there have done the original series. So many channels all just pick from the same bucket of movies or shows. It's nice to have some variety for a change. But yes, I'm freaking happy to join you guys on this Firefly journey. Let's do it!
I stumbled across this reaction. I love Firefly. I am looking forward to see more. I hope you also reaction to the movie Serenity. The first season was cut short. It was supposed to be 22 episodes for 5-6 seasons. The Train Job episode was aired first.
Technically, Firefly only got a HALF a season. Shows back then were 22-24 episodes for a season, and Fox wasn't willing to take the risk and pay for a full season. So they bought a half season and brought the show in as a mid-season offering rather than setting it up to premiere in September along with the slate of new shows that typically had their TV premiers around the same time. One of the biggest problems with the show was that one slate of executives greenlit the project and agreed to bring it to air, but then Fox had a shakeup in the leadership and there was a whole different group of execs in charge by the time the show was ready for TV. The new execs never got it, they found it to be too expensive (reality TV was just becoming a thing back then and it was cheap and fast to make, resulting in more profit supposedly) and they wanted to kill the show. So, they aired it out of order (despite the fact that it had an overarching season-long storyline) and they slated it for Friday night prime time, popularly known back then as the Friday night "death slot." Younger people and families tended to go out on Friday nights and not stay home to watch TV, so Friday was reserved for "news" shows like 20/20, sporting events (Firefly was preempted a couple of time for basketball games in my area), and "movie of the week" movies, usually older classic films. Basically, no one put _new_ series in the Friday primetime slots, and if an established series got moved to a Friday slot, that was a sign that it was on the way out and this was likely to be its last season. The fact that Firefly became as popular as it did back then with fans like me who saw it in its original run is a testament to the chemistry of the cast and the quality of the writing. SciFi channel (back before they became SyFy) later aired the show in its original order, helping us rediscover it and start begging for DVD copies (and in the meantime we taped it with our VCRs) so we could show it to friends and get them hooked too. You're in for a ride, and I think you will like it too. Just please keep in mind this is before seasons were condensed to 10-12 episodes with a single storyline, so it may feel like there are "filler" episodes. There was a 7-season plan for this show, and it was meant to be more an adventure of the week "let's explore the 'verse and get to know the people and places in it" type of show with an overarching background story rather than a "let's immediately solve what's going on with River" show.
About the RPG vibes: There's a lot of speculation that Firefly is based off a "paper and pencils" RPG Whedon played in college called Traveller. Traveller is sort of the "Dungeons & Dragons of science fiction RPGs", one of the originals of the type. The setting was pretty open, a whatever-you-want thing, but the most common one was small-time space freighters, on the edge of staying profitable from cargo + passengers, which needed to take odd jobs (of questionable legality) when they fell behind financially (see the Firefly connection?). Whedon himself has said he played the game but never connected the two, but that could just be his lawyer's advice: admitting inspiration or some other connection would be a potential hook for the owner/creator of Traveller to sue for a piece of the action. Any lawyer's advice would be "admit nothing".
A great bunch of characters played by a talented bunch of actors. You can't help but get invested in them. About the pilot being too long, I guess you can say Whedon was breaking ground here. Currently, with _The Orville,_ Seth McFarlane is doing longer than one-hour episodes, for better or for worse. This show is set in a crowded solar system. It has tons of inhabited planets, all settled by humans who answer to a government that is jointly American and Chinese. So you will learn a lot of colorful Chinese cuss words (it was a creative way of getting around the censors.) It was also a clever way of getting around needing any kind of FTL drive, too. My favorite character has to be Kaylee. She's just so sweet and the best _gorram_ mechanic in the 'verse.
@@somashaman I would judge your reading skills to be seriously lacking because you still seem unable to grasp what I was talking about in my original post. Now you are failing miserably at saving face. Go seek real therapy instead of attacking strangers online in an effort to resolve your personal issues.
Decent review. I don't really get the episode length argument - many shows have a double length pilot, but they are broken into two different episodes. Both of you mentioned how in-depth the character introductions were and how you liked how maybe already invested in them. That couldn't have happened I don't think without the 90 minute run time. And FOX's complaint for this episode was that it was too dark and too long, so they made them write a shorter pilot in a weekend, I think , which will be episode 2 - which is why FOX aired Ep 2 first. Not giving away plot - but you will get to see the compressed version of the character introduction, and you can judge for yourselves which one is better. Most fans of the show love this version better when all is said and done. Thanks for bringing us along for the ride - it's worth a subscription to see how this goes.
I just discovered you guys and I am a big Firefly fan and you did this 3 months ago so all 14 episodes might be available for me to binge. FYI if nobody else told you, this episode was intended to be the pilot. The network, Fox, rejected it because they said there wasn't enough action. That's why The Train Job was broadcast first. The producers added the battle scenes at the start, they were not in the original pilot and then this was broadcast at the end of a sadly very short run. I'll subscribe to watch the rest of Firefly, don't forget the movie Serenity, and since I am a Star Trek fan I will look into those. Well done gentlemen.
About the western aspect... this is a really neat aspect of sci-fi practicality. The colony worlds were rustic because they had to be. You're not going to worry about flying cars and lasers, you're worried about growing crops and making your own clothes. Have to be self sufficient and able to survive on the frontier. No flying cars, but horses and livestock. Rustic, homemade clothing because that's what works. Yes, very western with the dialogue and the like, but also a level of scifi that many overlook.
Things in the Verse are more rustic when they're away from the Alliance core worlds. There , they have every convenience that we have as they shall see in later episodes.
Different strokes and such. I think it is perfect in length and 1 of the top 3 Pilots of any show I have watched- Glad you enjoyed it. Sorry you thought it was too long.
This series is very grounded in reality compared to Trek. No aliens, no shields, no teleporters, no FTL. It all takes place in one solar system with multiple newly colonized planets and moons.
One of the stars of the 70s British sci-fi series "Blake's 7" considered "Firefly" to be an unofficial reboot. Which, doesn't hold up from the Western-in-space angle because "Blake's 7" had none of that. But I can see his point from the Dirty-Dozen-in-space angle.
Gentlemen, be advised that the network thought this pilot episode was too long (and too cerebral!) So the second episode ("The Train Job") is actually another pilot. You'll notice characters all get a re-introduction, but it is shorter and more action packed. I can't wait for the post-viewing conversation after you watch "Out Of Gas."
This is one of the few shows that doesn’t cut or fill time. The pilot was 90 minutes for a purpose. You said it yourself: “I feel like I got to know all these characters”. Not bad for only 90 min.
Great show. As I understand it one of the conservative studio executives was morally opposed to the mature content and intentionally sabotaged it with how things were released.
On the topic of it being too long, I believe the reason why the executives chose to air the second episode first is because it was a short action-oriented episode. Executives expected on the audience to have a short attention span and wanted to hook them with action. I don't think the executives realized it was a semi-serialized plot. The episodes do have a continuing story.
Those executives didn't realize much of anything. If the series would have lasted at least 3 seasons like STOS it might have become as big as Star Trek.
@@Mr.johninjax Yeah, Star Trek: Enterprise, which came out the year before if memory serves, got 4 seasons! (Blows my mind every time I think about it.) I think the execs looked at Enterprise and decided that sci-fi has lost it's prestige, or something, and nipped Firefly in the bud.
It's interesting to me when people praise the western theme of this episode and complain about the length. The slow pace of this first episode is a big contributor to the "western" feel for the rest of the series. (see tangent rant below) Truth be told, there isn't one second that is wasted in this episode. Everything goes to one of the following: character, setting, plot. And you walkaway knowing everything you need to know and nothing more. Later episodes, where the western theme is downplayed or moved to the background, have shifts in pace. A heist episode has its own pace, as does an action episode, as does a horror episode, etc. This is good TV writing/directing/producing. Rant: Watch any Clint Eastwood western for example and the pace is super slow, especially compared to modern movies, and modern westerns. Modern western movies are fast paced like an action movie, which kills the western motifs of setting and storytelling (coughMagnificent7-2016cough). The slow pace is meant to be calming, almost dull, to the audience, it implies simplicity and plain-ness. Add to that wide shots of the landscape/scenery/set and you have the beginnings of a great western.
So happy to see someone else reacting to this series! It deserved multiple seasons, but the BS between Joss and Fox wouldn't let it happen. Enjoy the ride. The characters, the world they're in, the writing....all great!
Extended length pilot episodes were the norm, once upon a time. Not an "odd concept" by any stretch. If they couldn't get the extended time slot, it would be broken up into a two-parter in many cases.
Before streaming and with commercials, a 90-min pilot premiere fit a 2-hr TV movie slot, or 2 one-hr slots in repeats and syndication. Technically this is episodes 1 & 2, and the next episode is 3. The "western" elements confused casual viewers, but people who have read classic science fiction understood the concept that the more remote colonies are not going to have the most advanced technology, because they need to be able to fix what breaks without waiting weeks or months for a ship to bring parts; even today this is somewhat true, and that's not even counting groups like the Amish who deliberately choose a less technological lfestyle. One even imagines the Society for Creative Anachronism might like their own cosplay planet. And because they were the losers in a civil war, the Serenity's crew mostly stick to the fringes of civilization to keep a low profile.
I still have a friend who just can't get into it despite being a big sci-fi guy. I had another friend that I lent the DVDs to and the next day he gave it back to me and said the Western stuff just pulled him out. I dropped it there and then 3 or 4 months later he tells me he tried it again and loved it. That dummy.
Many pilots during this time were 90mins long, SciFi or not. It wasn't that weird, in fact, it was expected of most shows After this, you should consider watching and reacting to Farscape, it's a great SciFi show and very much in line with the Star Trek episodic formula, but with greater stories and performances
It was on TV so you either had a normal length episode or a double length because they needed to be able to run them as 2 normal episodes after the first time.
@@andscifi Some shows did that (the ST:TNG pilot was like that, if I'm not mistaken.) But starting in the '70s, if not earlier, the show "pilot" could be a 2 hour movie-of-the-week that would later become a series if interest was high enough (I think The Six Million Dollar Man started that way, for example.) Firefly, anachronistically perhaps, seems to follow the movie-of-the-week format.
@@spencerbookman2523 It was very common. Sometimes they just showed the first two episodes other times it was a double episodes. I'm sure there were shows that did movies, but with how much money there was in syndication if you could reach the magic number the goal was to make everything in such a way that it could be used as episodes. audience
@@itzel1735 right, two 41 minutes episodes and 20 minutes of commercials. American TV went to roughly 20 minutes of commercials every hour a while ago.
Actually, LESS than one season. A full season would've been something on the order of 20-22 episodes, typically - Firefly got cut off at the knees midway through their only season.
It wasn’t Star Wars it was Star Trek. The show was actually marketed to the studio as a western in space. In fact in Star Trek The Next Generation Captain Picard describe the old series as cowboy diplomacy. Star Wars on the other hand is basically King Arthur.
The original studio pitch for Star Trek was "Wagontrain in space". The concept for Star Wars was "The Hidden Fortress in space". The Hidden Fortress is a Japanese samurai movie. The Mandalorian series is also based on a Japanese series called "Lone Wolf and Cub."
Westerns were heavily influenced by those Japanese movies though, so distinguishing things gets tricky. Regardless of their inspirations though, the original Star Wars (the movie retitled as "A New Hope") does have more of that frontier, dingy, deserty, outlaw feel than Star Trek's clean, cultured, and more bureaucratic Enterprise.
A lot less sexism in this than you guys read. The women of Serenity are strong women who are in charge of their own sexuality and aren't to be dismissed.
Because the series was cut so short, we learn a lot from the universe from supplemental material like comic books novels and the role play game, all of which are official.
The Comic Books, Novels, & RPG should all be avoided until after the series, the movie promos, & the movie. Otherwise there would be enormous spoilers.
I don't understand the comment about it being too long when you're praising it for giving each character their own arc. If it was a shorter episode you wouldn't have gotten the nuances that you're praising the episode for. So it kind of has to be the perfect length to get all of those stories set up without any of them feeling rushed.
Hi. I'm so happy y'all are watching Firefly. I like the Star Trek reactions, but this is my favorite sci-fi series of all time. I really hope you enjoy it. Stay shiny and keep flying.
You mention it feels like a role p[laying game... People have often thought Firefly is a love letter to the original Traveller RPG (the sci-fi answer to Dungeons & Dragons in the 70s.) Whedon is known to have played RPGs. And Dobson (the fed agent who Mal shoots in the end) was meant to come back in season two, which of course, never happened, but did turn up in a comic book story after the series closed.
I’m glad you guys are reacting to Firefly, it’s one of my top favorite shows. Joss Whedon.. sad where he is today, but made masterpieces back then. Buffy is also a good watch.. but if you like this and GOTG, you should also like Farscape if you ever get to it 🙂
The first episode was a two parter. They had to do a bigger opening to the other episodes with a voice over by Book because people in America hadn't seen the pilot so they had no idea what they war watching. It's all human. Josh Whedon makes great shows, just a creepy guy. Huh. Naked Girl. That was the end of Part 1. Mal is a hard ass. That's one of the reasons Fox asked for another pilot. They thought the Captain was too Unsympathetic. They wanted a friendlier Mal and they got him in the Train Job. There was a lot of important info in the pilot. I had to get past the western element. The Fed is a bad guy. And Mal doesnt screw around. Love the quick resolutions. It was a lot like the Mini-series Rome. You had some character you thought was going to be a recurring villain and the next thing you knew Pulo would stick a sword through his neck. I really enjoy all the characters. In the end I like the smart ass pilot Wash and the doctor the best but I like them all. Nice ensemble. Jayne was / is hilarious.
Pilots that are longer than the regular episodes is fairly common. If you thought this was too long I can't imagine what you would think of the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That trilogy's extended versions run 3+ hours, and it is considered by many to be the best movie trilogy of all time.
I think you guys would really like Dark Matter. A SyFy tv show. It didn't get a proper TV ending, but it had 3 seasons of really good writing. It's everything Killjoys *wanted* to be. And the overall theme makes me think of Firefly.
I think you need to be careful that you don't end up reading everything as sexist because of the Whedon controversies. A woman expressing sexuality is not sexist writing. In fact, I think most people would agree that the women in this show are written exceptionally well compared to most other media.
I'd agree. As a woman, and a fan of this show, the ladies in the show absolutely don't feel like "What men think women are like". They feel like genuine women, each with their own quirks, personalities, etc. And anything sexual isn't automatically just sexist writing - the women are allowed to express sexuality without it being "creepy writing because a man wrote it."
24:19 Context is everything. If you are cooking, its a vegetable. If you are talking horticulture or biology, its a fruit.
All fruit are vegetarian.
Yeah, there is no "fruit _or_ vegetable" quandary. Botanically, I don't think there's properly any such thing as a vegetable, but colloquially, "vegetable" and "vegetable matter" can indicate plants or the edible parts of them (which doesn't necessarily exclude fruit). Culinarily, a tomato is very much a vegetable (just consider what it tastes like and how it's used in food), as are many other things that are botanical fruits (like bell peppers, eggplants, cucumbers, squash, beans, corn, olives, pumpkins, peas, okra, avocados...). If it were impossible to be both a botanical fruit and culinary vegetable, we'd have to pretty much ditch the culinary distinction altogether, and shake in fear of exactly what a fruit salad might include.
@@stuffyouotterlistento1461 in the old game 20 questions, to the question of "Animal, vegetable or mineral?"... All "fruit" are vegetable.
IF you're making a fruit salad... it's a vegetable.
If you are talking about vaudeville, it's a form of critique.
“Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!”
Yeah. They cut out a bunch of stuff for YT. The entire Badger talk too!
Lol im wearing a t shirt with that quote right now.
Some of the things that Joss did with this series....
At the time, Fox was using the standard TV aspect ratio but Joss blocked the scenes to require widescreen aspect ratio, so he had the scenes recorded by both camera setups and shown in dailies, and the widescreen version dominated.
Joss wanted to give viewers time to process the scenes longer by including more frames 'cut-to-black'. The problem was the network had machines that recognized the blackout frames as the signal to cut to local commercials. When he learned about it in production notes, he worked on the darkest hue possible before triggering the cutoff signal. He protected it [patent, trademark, copyright, whatever applied.]
For the unique camera touches, the director of photography traded in the newest lenses for older lenses that could do lens flares.
Joss fought the network to maintain the marriage between Zoe and Wash, as the network did not want them paired.
I was watching one of many car chases in LA, and the driver did a quick u-turn and the announcer said that 'He just pulled a Crazy Ivan'! I nearly fell out of my chair.
It's funny to hear you guys talking about first episodes being an hour and a half. Star Trek shows starting with TNG all had "two hour" pilot episodes (about 90 minutes after commercials), as did SeaQuest DSV, Babylon 5, and many others. 😄
People used to have lot more patience.
Series premiere used to be an anticipated TV event before streaming. It was appointment TV that launched the show and hopefully got high ratings for the network.
It might feel longer reacting to something, since you can't just sit back and enjoy it, and are cognizant of the fact that you're "on the clock", but I have to say that this hasn't ever seemed long to me. Maybe there's also some distinction between movies and TV shows, where the former are expected to be longer, and their length is accepted on that basis, while it's viewed as abnormal and therefore off-putting for a show? I have heard a sizable minority of people say this first double-episode of Firefly is slow, but it never seemed like that way to me. I'm not sure what the consensus is though. Maybe other people feel like it's slow but haven't voiced that fact, or maybe it _is_ just a minority that feels that way. I think there was a time period (after shows began to be more arc-y, but before everything was freely and easily accessible to stream) when there was an extra incentive to start a show off with a double episode, so as to build the world and get more established than you could in a single one.
Yeah. It used to be VERY common to have a premier night for a show on a Sunday night in place of showing a movie so that no other shows got their time slots bumped by the double length episode and then after that the show was moved to a regular time slot. Quantum Leap, I think every Star Trek show after TOS, Stargate SG1 and Atlantis, and many others. The first episode for the 1980s Buck Rogers series actually had a theatrical release and then the TV release 6 months later with a few edits and a few short extra scenes shot.
@@hackerx7329 In 1978, Battlestar Galactica's premiere was a three part episode, later cut to two hours and released in theaters.
Did it need to be 90 minutes? Hell yea!! Proper pilots are 2 parters.
I do enjoy when someone says that it didn't need to be feature length and then extol the virtue of taking time to introduce the characters and the antagonist. That seems contrary to me.
Correction: It only got a half season! Never even got to finish the first season.
Also the networks aired the episodes out of order, change what night it was on just about every week, the pilot episode was the last one they aired and never even aired the last three episodes!
When I heard you saying you would be watching this, my reaction was: "Oh no, they watch things in release order, that's not going to go well."
Then I saw the thumbnail and was so happy. The network really messed up when they aired it.
Hope you enjoy the ride.
I'm pretty sure them messing it up lead to the premature death of the show, possibly intentional?
The network didn't understand the show. Blew the marketing, showed episodes out of order, preempted some episodes, didn't show others, and then wondered why people weren't following it.
They didn't get even one season. It was cancelled at the midpoint of the first season. The "Dammit Joss" bit is going to get old fast. For the record, Fillion recently said he saw nothing to support the (vague) allegations against Whedon while working on "Firefly"and he said that he would work with him tomorrow if he had the opportunity.
The theatrical film, "Serenity", should be considered the series finale. It doesn't answer all of the unresolved questions, but it does wrap up the main ones.
Whedon was just another casualty of the #WokeWhinyActors who think every criticism of how a scene was acted and any suggestion of alternate ways to shoot the scene are direct attacks on the actors themselves. These are people who think words are the exact same thing as physical violence.
Personally, I'd much prefer an ass-chewing to getting punched in the face repeatedly since I'm still grounded in reality.
If you look up "most difficult directors who work with in history"...Whedon isn't even on the list.
No spoilers!!!!!!
@@fullmoonprepping4024 you're right. There are no spoilers in my comment.
Just to add: "The River Tam Sessions" were released as 5 movie promos for the movie "Serenity". Combined they are a little over 8 minutes total. For them, release order makes a better mini-story than chronological order.
@@dunringill1747 Only, DON'T watch them BEFORE the movie !!! They mean nothing and add nothing important to the story. In fact, the detract from "the mystery that was" !!!
Fox: Firefly is cancelled.
Fans: Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
It's heartbreaking to hear the Joss bashing, because even Fillion has said he'd work with him again tomorrow if he could. Look up the list of men AND women that have worked with him on multiple projects, and I'm pretty sure if you're a horrible person, people wouldn't come back. I have spoken with technical people that have worked for him and said he's a fantastic guy and very kind. This doesn't mean he never did anything wrong. Maybe he did, but if you've ever worked a day in your life, we've all had bosses treating us bad. And we've all had bad days where we say something we regret. We aren't talking about anything illegal, and I can guarantee, there's a LOT of worse people in movies and tv shows you love.
that's the thing. the famous story of Alan Tudyk giving Joss the red button to call everyone home once the series ended... idk there is definitely more to the story. Plus - most great artists generally aren't the greatest people behind the scenes.
Some important things about this show are, first: no aliens. Second: if they say something that sounds like Mandarin, it's because they're speaking Mandarin.
The second episode was written to replace this as the pilot episode, because executives didn't think there was enough action. So, if they seem to be restating a lot of the same information, that's why. Firefly was originally greenlit by the previous management of the network. The new management didn't care about it and basically killed it through lack of advertising, timeslot preemptions, and airing the episodes out of order.
(The Joss-bashing does get old really quickly, really. Deserved or not.)
In my opinion, this episode suffers in that Mal comes off as a jerk most of the episode. The second leans more into Nathan Fillion's roguish charm and comedy skills.
@@cboscari - Apparently, after the first episode, Nathan requested that his character be toned down some, and not be such a dick.
Those tactics WORKED,I remember seeing a promo for the show when it first aired and not knowing when it was going to come on.Lost interest.
@@cboscari Why are you talking about the 2nd episode ??? At this point, they haven't even seen it yet. You should only be talking about what they just saw ... and nothing more !!!
Additionally, I think Mal came off the way he did for a reason ... to show the strength of his character and that he thinks fast and acts faster. Remember, at the beginning of this episode, there was only Mal, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kayleigh and Inara. They didn't pick up Shepard Book or Simon and River until this episode was well underway. They didn't really know the "others", so it wasn't a crew/family yet. Inara was always away and the other were crew. They didn't have the luxury of "being friends". This series gives Mal time to relax and eventually mellow/evolve with the rest of the crew ... as the show progresses.
Battlestar Galactica had a 3-hour premiere in 1978… so 90 minutes is chump change.
This first episode was a two-parter, with the break being when River is revealed in the box & Mal grunting "huh".
Hard to know how I feel about Joss currently. Most of the Buffy cast said some disturbing things but all of the Firefly cast loves him.
Most shows from the 70s to 2000s had a double episode to introduce the show. It was very common. Some did it a week apart, some did a movie for the first one.
Also, the pastor never betrays his faith, you missed on that one.
The thing about Malcolm Reynolds psychologically he’s recoiled into himself, and sacrificed every moral and belief in order to keep going. Deep down he is a idealistic hero, and sees his crew as his family his ship as his world. basically he’s a broken man still healing from the war.
He's hanging on to threads and simultaneously holds what keeps dear close AND at arms length both at the same time.
I can relate to nobody more lol
A 90-minute pilot weirds y'all out? That weirds ME out. :P I am subbed to and watch way more than 100 reactors ... music, TV, film. Y'all are easily in my Top Twenty favorites. Some reactors I skip when they cover something I don't care about but I'm a Trekkie from the first airing of the first episode when I was a tween, and that's how I caught on to you guys. Keep up the great work!
Glad you started watching Firefly, I hope you'll continue to enjoy it
I subbed for your Firefly journey. This is a classic. Double length pilots were the standard back then. Also: Seasons averaged from 22-24 episodes. Joss Whedon had a contract for 5 seasons / 22-24 episodes to complete his story.
Firefly was sabotaged on purpose. Every dirty trick in the book was used to get it canceled. There was an internal executive power struggle at FOX. It didn't matter how good a show was, the opposition wanted it gone.
Firefly is a hybrid of being both episodic & sequential. Dynamic character growth and important reference call backs connect the series in a specific order.
I need to get the Sliders device to find the alternative world that has five seasons of Firefly!
Joss Whedon wrote this as an allegory for a Confederate soldier trying to live in the untamed west after losing the American Civil War.
That is also the origin of the character John Carter (John Carter of Mars books) who was a Confederate captain living in the untamed west after losing the American Civil War.
20:30 Correct. And that's exactly why 90 minutes are necessary. If anything it is too short, not too long.
Something that helped viewers with the context of the show was the opening narration that played before the start of each episode, but has not been included in the streaming platforms or the DVDs.
Opening Narration for first 4 episodes.
Book: After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some...disagreement on that point. After the War, many of the Independents who had fought and lost drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggled to get by with the most basic technologies; a ship would bring you work, a gun would help you keep it. A captain's goal was simple: find a crew, find a job, keep flying.
Opening Narration: episodes 7,8,9, and 11
Mal: Here's how it is: The Earth got used up, so we moved out and terraformed a whole new galaxy of Earths. Some rich and flush with the new technologies, some not so much. The Central Planets, them as formed the Alliance, waged war to bring everyone under their rule; a few idiots tried to fight it, among them myself. I'm Malcolm Reynolds, captain of Serenity. She's a transport ship; Firefly class. Got a good crew: fighters, pilot, mechanic. We even picked up a preacher for some reason, and a bona-fide companion. There's a doctor, too, took his genius sister outta some Alliance camp, so they're keepin' a low profile. You understand. You got a job, we can do it, don't much care what it is.
I don't get what's your problem with Joss? Did you read actual complains against. One actress felt bad because she wasn't sure she was important on the set. And she blamed Joss that she didn't feel important enough. Another thought that he was playing favorites and called it abuse. Also him questioning an actress about getting a new tattoo during the shooting was decried as attacking her religion. Are you seriously taking these people's complains as reasonable?
I think they are just joking with his name without actually doing their research.. he is just another example of how cancel culture works in our society today unfortunately 😕
There was a lot of "me2 kool-aid" that was being passed around - I.E. - cancel culture. Maybe these two guys drank some of it?
Firefly is a well-written show. It was appreciated by fans, but not by the executives at the networks. Sadly it got cut short before it really got going.
I never got the chance to appreciate it when it was on the air. Whoever made the commercials for the show clearly didn't "get" it, and badly misrepresented it to the point where I thought it looked awful. So I never sought it out.
@@stuffyouotterlistento1461 The print ad used nationwide was a full page shot of River in the cryo case with the vapor streams. The question "Who is the girl in the box?" Not only is it a major spoiler, but the episode did not air until the series was cancelled and it was used to complete airtime commitments. The cast was not included in the network's Fall Season Preview at all, and reviews could only go on the description of space hookers and burnt out hippies [Wash].
Quick correction. Captain Reynold's second in command wasn't Jane Cobb...it was Zoe.
you need to add the movie 'Serenity' to the watch list after the final episode...
Can you imagine what would happen if a reaction channel went through the whole season and then said, "That's enough. We don't need to watch the movie"? 🙂 (I think there would be some disagreement about that course of action.)
Welcome to the world of the Brown Coats. You will love the series & the movie.
Another show I place in the category "cut down in it's prime" was Space:Above and Beyond. The effects don't really hold up to modern standards, but Shirley Walker's music and the storytelling make it a definite classic for me also. Great to see you guys reaction to this beloved show, and truly I would watch yall react to an ice cube melting lol. Keep up the great work!
Personally I think that Saab is more deserving to be renewed
I love Space: Above and Beyond, though I get why it was cancelled. It was brilliant in many ways, but mediocre at best the rest of the time. It hits every war movie trope and often clumsily. But I love it anyways for those moments where it really shines.
Nobody ever talks about SAAB. It wasn't perfect but it had a lot of potential. I think a reboot would be worth it but hardly anyone seems to remember it.
I'm glad you got into Firefly, screw the guys who decided to cancel this amazing show. Enjoy it!
Think about it ... The APPROPRIATE punishment for "the guys who decided to cancel this amazing show" would be for the ladies to "NOT screw the guys ... ever again" 👀🙌😁😉👍.
love that you guys are going through these shows. Your repport and comments are always interesting and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more!
I am very excited about your next Star Trek episode, the Doomsday Machine! certainly one of my favorites :-)
Malcolm Reynolds and Zoe Alleyne were in the war together. NCOs who became de facto leaders of the remaining troops in the shown Battle of Serenity Valley. After the order to lay down arms, they became prisoners of war. Once paroled to civilian life, Mal eventually became the ship captain and Zoe was by his side as first officer.
Crew [Ranked by seniority]
Captain Malcolm Reynolds
First Officer Zoe Washburne - wife
Pilot "Wash" - husband
Mechanic Kaylee Frye
[Public Relations] Jayne Cobb
Passengers
[Ambassador] Companion Inara Serra
Shepherd Book
[Fugitive] Simon Tam - Medic
[Fugitive] River Tam
Lawrence - Fed, picked up at Eavesdown Docks, dropped off at Whitefall.
Patience - ruler of Whitefall, penchant for shooting Mal.
This episode was intended to introduce the entire cast. The fact that Fox refused to show it first seriously damaged the show's prospects. Having seen this episode first you're prepared to watch and enjoy the rest of the show - you won't be wondering who everyone is. Yes, future episodes will go into greater detail about the individual characters, and they'll grow and change over time, but this 90 minute premier episode lays the foundation for that.
I liked your guys' input and observations :) welcome to the firefly fandom!
BTW the Reavers were supposed to be the BIG Scarry dragon held over everyone for a number of seasons before a big season opener or ending where parts of Firefly are taken up. I would love to have had a game like Elite Dangerous or Star Citizen set in this universe. In your ship one minute haling cargo then transferring it to a wagon pulled by oxen and sending out Outriders on horseback to cover you like Red Dead, as you plod along to a town to sell stuff. The dichotomy works so well Thank you Lucis for bringing the Spaghetti western / Si-Fi to life. I don't know about the back story about Joss Whedon but whatever ells he may have been or dun this show was and will be a massive hit.
Having subscribed only recently around the end of your TOS / beginning of TAS watch throughs it is great to see how the format has evolved yet the core stayed the same. Wish I found you sooner, thanks guys.
It's all about the great characters on this show.
After the American Civil War, some of the former Confederate soldiers migrated from the southern states towards the western coast. Some became outlaws and lived on the fringes of society.
Firefly is the story of those kinds of people living on the edges of habitable planets/moons and ships and how they survived after the war.
Recommend the guys watch The Outlaw Josey Wales, if they haven't already.
@@artboymoy excellent suggestion!
So glad you guys are watching this one, even if it might make the Star Trek episodes come out less frequently. LOL This series was a true classic in the making, tragically cut down in its youth before it could ever really spread its wings... RIP the great Ron Glass.✌💯
Star Trek will still be twice a week!
@@targetaudience Best news ever!!! 😜😜
Watch Babylon 5 next. Or The Expanse. Or both...
Yay! Firefly! Welcome to the 'Verse!
Don't let prejudice ruin this for you ;)
I never really knew anything about Joss . I only knew he did Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. When it was airing on TV I never got into it. Sometimes preemptively cut for Baseball. Discovered it here on TH-cam and bought the DVD and wore the discs out. I just love the show second to Star Trek. I love the universe Joss created , never knew much about any of the negative stories about him. Never pay attention to stuff like that. The show hooked me. I'm very disappointed it didn't complete several seasons. Could've almost been as big as Star Trek. IMHO
Just came here after your first Buffy upload! :D Gonna love this!
Glad you are doing these. I never caught the series, but saw the Serenity movie which was pretty amazing.
Zoe (played by Gina Torres) is the second in command. Zoe's been with Mal since the war. Jayne Cobb (played by Adam Baldwin) is the ship mercenary.
Oh! I thought Jayne was public relations.😆
@@Mr.johninjax that too lol 😂
The camera work on the ship is unique because they actually built the entire ship as a set, not different separate sets. The literally built the entire ship interior as one set.
I think Firefly still stands as the only live action 'Space Western'. There are however at least three anime that qualify as part of the genre. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun and Outlaw Star. : )
Let go of roasting Joss Whedon . ... . That will get old real quick. Just keep watching. This will go places you cannot predict. Also Zoe is Mal's second in command. Jayne is the muscle.
Guys, I challenge you to name a better character development / relationship show that succeeds so well (The FF Fandom) in only 13 episodes + a movie (Serenity). Welcome to the browncoats!
The best show ever written, my heart will never find peace about not having more Firefly 💔
Wow! You are obviously very limited in what show's you have watched. Again, WOW!
I'd argue that 'The Expanse' beats Firefly, even if not by a large amount.
@@nielgregory108 Thank you for YOUR opinion. Noted, then deleted !!!
For me, that spot is taken by Babylon 5, but Firefly is definitely part of my top 5 shows. And yeah, screw Fox for cancelling it. The _special_ hell and all that...
It's lived on ever since in comic books. They're really good.
This should be a fun run for you guys!
You'll find that Firefly constantly changes its feel from episode to episode...and it does it well.
Hello Target Audience! First time viewer.... I am a Trekkie, but i'm here for Firefly. I may check out your videos on the original series. It's refreshing, not many other channels out there have done the original series. So many channels all just pick from the same bucket of movies or shows. It's nice to have some variety for a change. But yes, I'm freaking happy to join you guys on this Firefly journey. Let's do it!
I stumbled across this reaction. I love Firefly. I am looking forward to see more. I hope you also reaction to the movie Serenity.
The first season was cut short. It was supposed to be 22 episodes for 5-6 seasons. The Train Job episode was aired first.
Technically, Firefly only got a HALF a season. Shows back then were 22-24 episodes for a season, and Fox wasn't willing to take the risk and pay for a full season. So they bought a half season and brought the show in as a mid-season offering rather than setting it up to premiere in September along with the slate of new shows that typically had their TV premiers around the same time. One of the biggest problems with the show was that one slate of executives greenlit the project and agreed to bring it to air, but then Fox had a shakeup in the leadership and there was a whole different group of execs in charge by the time the show was ready for TV. The new execs never got it, they found it to be too expensive (reality TV was just becoming a thing back then and it was cheap and fast to make, resulting in more profit supposedly) and they wanted to kill the show. So, they aired it out of order (despite the fact that it had an overarching season-long storyline) and they slated it for Friday night prime time, popularly known back then as the Friday night "death slot." Younger people and families tended to go out on Friday nights and not stay home to watch TV, so Friday was reserved for "news" shows like 20/20, sporting events (Firefly was preempted a couple of time for basketball games in my area), and "movie of the week" movies, usually older classic films.
Basically, no one put _new_ series in the Friday primetime slots, and if an established series got moved to a Friday slot, that was a sign that it was on the way out and this was likely to be its last season.
The fact that Firefly became as popular as it did back then with fans like me who saw it in its original run is a testament to the chemistry of the cast and the quality of the writing. SciFi channel (back before they became SyFy) later aired the show in its original order, helping us rediscover it and start begging for DVD copies (and in the meantime we taped it with our VCRs) so we could show it to friends and get them hooked too.
You're in for a ride, and I think you will like it too. Just please keep in mind this is before seasons were condensed to 10-12 episodes with a single storyline, so it may feel like there are "filler" episodes. There was a 7-season plan for this show, and it was meant to be more an adventure of the week "let's explore the 'verse and get to know the people and places in it" type of show with an overarching background story rather than a "let's immediately solve what's going on with River" show.
Great video!! Great editing!! Love it
About the RPG vibes: There's a lot of speculation that Firefly is based off a "paper and pencils" RPG Whedon played in college called Traveller. Traveller is sort of the "Dungeons & Dragons of science fiction RPGs", one of the originals of the type. The setting was pretty open, a whatever-you-want thing, but the most common one was small-time space freighters, on the edge of staying profitable from cargo + passengers, which needed to take odd jobs (of questionable legality) when they fell behind financially (see the Firefly connection?). Whedon himself has said he played the game but never connected the two, but that could just be his lawyer's advice: admitting inspiration or some other connection would be a potential hook for the owner/creator of Traveller to sue for a piece of the action. Any lawyer's advice would be "admit nothing".
A great bunch of characters played by a talented bunch of actors. You can't help but get invested in them.
About the pilot being too long, I guess you can say Whedon was breaking ground here. Currently, with _The Orville,_ Seth McFarlane is doing longer than one-hour episodes, for better or for worse.
This show is set in a crowded solar system. It has tons of inhabited planets, all settled by humans who answer to a government that is jointly American and Chinese. So you will learn a lot of colorful Chinese cuss words (it was a creative way of getting around the censors.) It was also a clever way of getting around needing any kind of FTL drive, too.
My favorite character has to be Kaylee. She's just so sweet and the best _gorram_ mechanic in the 'verse.
@@somashaman Yes, _two_ hour pilots, not oddly timed 90-minute ones.
@@somashaman Nobody ever put a quarter of an hour's worth of commercials in a 90-minute show to pad it out to two hours.
@@somashaman I would judge your reading skills to be seriously lacking because you still seem unable to grasp what I was talking about in my original post. Now you are failing miserably at saving face.
Go seek real therapy instead of attacking strangers online in an effort to resolve your personal issues.
Decent review. I don't really get the episode length argument - many shows have a double length pilot, but they are broken into two different episodes. Both of you mentioned how in-depth the character introductions were and how you liked how maybe already invested in them. That couldn't have happened I don't think without the 90 minute run time.
And FOX's complaint for this episode was that it was too dark and too long, so they made them write a shorter pilot in a weekend, I think , which will be episode 2 - which is why FOX aired Ep 2 first. Not giving away plot - but you will get to see the compressed version of the character introduction, and you can judge for yourselves which one is better. Most fans of the show love this version better when all is said and done.
Thanks for bringing us along for the ride - it's worth a subscription to see how this goes.
I just discovered you guys and I am a big Firefly fan and you did this 3 months ago so all 14 episodes might be available for me to binge. FYI if nobody else told you, this episode was intended to be the pilot. The network, Fox, rejected it because they said there wasn't enough action. That's why The Train Job was broadcast first. The producers added the battle scenes at the start, they were not in the original pilot and then this was broadcast at the end of a sadly very short run. I'll subscribe to watch the rest of Firefly, don't forget the movie Serenity, and since I am a Star Trek fan I will look into those. Well done gentlemen.
About the western aspect... this is a really neat aspect of sci-fi practicality. The colony worlds were rustic because they had to be. You're not going to worry about flying cars and lasers, you're worried about growing crops and making your own clothes. Have to be self sufficient and able to survive on the frontier. No flying cars, but horses and livestock. Rustic, homemade clothing because that's what works. Yes, very western with the dialogue and the like, but also a level of scifi that many overlook.
Things in the Verse are more rustic when they're away from the Alliance core worlds. There , they have every convenience that we have as they shall see in later episodes.
Aaaah, yes. Here we go!
Different strokes and such. I think it is perfect in length and 1 of the top 3 Pilots of any show I have watched- Glad you enjoyed it. Sorry you thought it was too long.
This series is very grounded in reality compared to Trek. No aliens, no shields, no teleporters, no FTL. It all takes place in one solar system with multiple newly colonized planets and moons.
One of the stars of the 70s British sci-fi series "Blake's 7" considered "Firefly" to be an unofficial reboot.
Which, doesn't hold up from the Western-in-space angle because "Blake's 7" had none of that.
But I can see his point from the Dirty-Dozen-in-space angle.
@5:36 Those facial expressions during the intro music hahaha
It's not an odd consept, Back in the 70's quite a few TV shows started as a double episode, it was'nt unusal back then.
My favorite show ever. Aired out of order and moved to different nights. Messed with a great show.
Gentlemen, be advised that the network thought this pilot episode was too long (and too cerebral!) So the second episode ("The Train Job") is actually another pilot. You'll notice characters all get a re-introduction, but it is shorter and more action packed.
I can't wait for the post-viewing conversation after you watch "Out Of Gas."
Its the A-team in space & I'm here for it!
This is one of the few shows that doesn’t cut or fill time. The pilot was 90 minutes for a purpose. You said it yourself: “I feel like I got to know all these characters”. Not bad for only 90 min.
Great show. As I understand it one of the conservative studio executives was morally opposed to the mature content and intentionally sabotaged it with how things were released.
On the topic of it being too long, I believe the reason why the executives chose to air the second episode first is because it was a short action-oriented episode. Executives expected on the audience to have a short attention span and wanted to hook them with action.
I don't think the executives realized it was a semi-serialized plot. The episodes do have a continuing story.
Those executives didn't realize much of anything. If the series would have lasted at least 3 seasons like STOS it might have become as big as Star Trek.
@@Mr.johninjax Yeah, Star Trek: Enterprise, which came out the year before if memory serves, got 4 seasons! (Blows my mind every time I think about it.) I think the execs looked at Enterprise and decided that sci-fi has lost it's prestige, or something, and nipped Firefly in the bud.
Even worse, the execs demanded a new 1st episode- Joss & his other writer had to write episode 2 in one weekend.
It's interesting to me when people praise the western theme of this episode and complain about the length. The slow pace of this first episode is a big contributor to the "western" feel for the rest of the series. (see tangent rant below) Truth be told, there isn't one second that is wasted in this episode. Everything goes to one of the following: character, setting, plot. And you walkaway knowing everything you need to know and nothing more. Later episodes, where the western theme is downplayed or moved to the background, have shifts in pace. A heist episode has its own pace, as does an action episode, as does a horror episode, etc. This is good TV writing/directing/producing.
Rant:
Watch any Clint Eastwood western for example and the pace is super slow, especially compared to modern movies, and modern westerns. Modern western movies are fast paced like an action movie, which kills the western motifs of setting and storytelling (coughMagnificent7-2016cough). The slow pace is meant to be calming, almost dull, to the audience, it implies simplicity and plain-ness. Add to that wide shots of the landscape/scenery/set and you have the beginnings of a great western.
I am a full time Trekker but I have heard of Firefly for years so i’ve decided to follow you guy’s an finally see it🖖
Brian from Northeast Ohio 😃
Oh awesome! Hope you enjoy it! :) I wish I could see it for the first time again. For being so short - there's some amazing character development.
So happy to see someone else reacting to this series! It deserved multiple seasons, but the BS between Joss and Fox wouldn't let it happen. Enjoy the ride. The characters, the world they're in, the writing....all great!
Extended length pilot episodes were the norm, once upon a time. Not an "odd concept" by any stretch. If they couldn't get the extended time slot, it would be broken up into a two-parter in many cases.
Fun fact Jewel Staite (Kaylee) hates strawberries
She also looks like a completely different person now.
20 years will do this. All of them look older. Jewel gained weight for this role as well.
@@agresticumbra she doesn't look older. She looks completely different.
Yep. She hates the strawberries. Just goes to show how good an actor she is.
I came down through the comments to see if this had been stated already.
The last scene in the cockpit, Wash wasn’t even holding the stick. They didn’t have it built out yet.
Before streaming and with commercials, a 90-min pilot premiere fit a 2-hr TV movie slot, or 2 one-hr slots in repeats and syndication. Technically this is episodes 1 & 2, and the next episode is 3. The "western" elements confused casual viewers, but people who have read classic science fiction understood the concept that the more remote colonies are not going to have the most advanced technology, because they need to be able to fix what breaks without waiting weeks or months for a ship to bring parts; even today this is somewhat true, and that's not even counting groups like the Amish who deliberately choose a less technological lfestyle. One even imagines the Society for Creative Anachronism might like their own cosplay planet. And because they were the losers in a civil war, the Serenity's crew mostly stick to the fringes of civilization to keep a low profile.
I still have a friend who just can't get into it despite being a big sci-fi guy. I had another friend that I lent the DVDs to and the next day he gave it back to me and said the Western stuff just pulled him out. I dropped it there and then 3 or 4 months later he tells me he tried it again and loved it. That dummy.
I agree with you on this and based on that having horses make sense because horses reproduce themselves, trucks don't.
Many pilots during this time were 90mins long, SciFi or not. It wasn't that weird, in fact, it was expected of most shows After this, you should consider watching and reacting to Farscape, it's a great SciFi show and very much in line with the Star Trek episodic formula, but with greater stories and performances
So good to see other Scapers here! Yeah.. Farscape and Firefly are my top two favorite shows!
It was on TV so you either had a normal length episode or a double length because they needed to be able to run them as 2 normal episodes after the first time.
@@andscifi Some shows did that (the ST:TNG pilot was like that, if I'm not mistaken.) But starting in the '70s, if not earlier, the show "pilot" could be a 2 hour movie-of-the-week that would later become a series if interest was high enough (I think The Six Million Dollar Man started that way, for example.) Firefly, anachronistically perhaps, seems to follow the movie-of-the-week format.
@@spencerbookman2523 It was very common. Sometimes they just showed the first two episodes other times it was a double episodes.
I'm sure there were shows that did movies, but with how much money there was in syndication if you could reach the magic number the goal was to make everything in such a way that it could be used as episodes.
audience
@@itzel1735 right, two 41 minutes episodes and 20 minutes of commercials. American TV went to roughly 20 minutes of commercials every hour a while ago.
Actually, LESS than one season. A full season would've been something on the order of 20-22 episodes, typically - Firefly got cut off at the knees midway through their only season.
Joss wrote this series to be like a western in space.
It wasn’t Star Wars it was Star Trek. The show was actually marketed to the studio as a western in space. In fact in Star Trek The Next Generation Captain Picard describe the old series as cowboy diplomacy. Star Wars on the other hand is basically King Arthur.
Star Wars has its western elements, too. Han Solo is basically a western character. And "The Mandalorian" is very much a space western.
The original studio pitch for Star Trek was "Wagontrain in space".
The concept for Star Wars was "The Hidden Fortress in space". The Hidden Fortress is a Japanese samurai movie.
The Mandalorian series is also based on a Japanese series called "Lone Wolf and Cub."
Westerns were heavily influenced by those Japanese movies though, so distinguishing things gets tricky. Regardless of their inspirations though, the original Star Wars (the movie retitled as "A New Hope") does have more of that frontier, dingy, deserty, outlaw feel than Star Trek's clean, cultured, and more bureaucratic Enterprise.
A lot less sexism in this than you guys read.
The women of Serenity are strong women who are in charge of their own sexuality and aren't to be dismissed.
Because the series was cut so short, we learn a lot from the universe from supplemental material like comic books novels and the role play game, all of which are official.
The Comic Books, Novels, & RPG should all be avoided until after the series, the movie promos, & the movie. Otherwise there would be enormous spoilers.
@@dunringill1747 they are useful for providing things like maps of the solar system.
So you thought it was too long but was happy you got to know all the characters.thats why it was so long.but besides that great reaction.
Alright. A new Firefly reaction. Y'all have lots of subscribers, but now it will blow up on you with this reaction reviews.
I don't understand the comment about it being too long when you're praising it for giving each character their own arc. If it was a shorter episode you wouldn't have gotten the nuances that you're praising the episode for. So it kind of has to be the perfect length to get all of those stories set up without any of them feeling rushed.
Hi. I'm so happy y'all are watching Firefly. I like the Star Trek reactions, but this is my favorite sci-fi series of all time. I really hope you enjoy it. Stay shiny and keep flying.
Shenanigans is a great way to describe Firefly. You've gained a Browncoat subscriber 😁
Back in the day, most shows pilots were longer than the rest of the series. It was just a thing that they did.
You mention it feels like a role p[laying game... People have often thought Firefly is a love letter to the original Traveller RPG (the sci-fi answer to Dungeons & Dragons in the 70s.) Whedon is known to have played RPGs.
And Dobson (the fed agent who Mal shoots in the end) was meant to come back in season two, which of course, never happened, but did turn up in a comic book story after the series closed.
I’m glad you guys are reacting to Firefly, it’s one of my top favorite shows. Joss Whedon.. sad where he is today, but made masterpieces back then. Buffy is also a good watch.. but if you like this and GOTG, you should also like Farscape if you ever get to it 🙂
@Rick King 22 I agree.. they really did him wrong
The first episode was a two parter. They had to do a bigger opening to the other episodes with a voice over by Book because people in America hadn't seen the pilot so they had no idea what they war watching. It's all human.
Josh Whedon makes great shows, just a creepy guy.
Huh. Naked Girl. That was the end of Part 1.
Mal is a hard ass. That's one of the reasons Fox asked for another pilot. They thought the Captain was too Unsympathetic. They wanted a friendlier Mal and they got him in the Train Job. There was a lot of important info in the pilot. I had to get past the western element.
The Fed is a bad guy.
And Mal doesnt screw around.
Love the quick resolutions. It was a lot like the Mini-series Rome. You had some character you thought was going to be a recurring villain and the next thing you knew Pulo would stick a sword through his neck.
I really enjoy all the characters. In the end I like the smart ass pilot Wash and the doctor the best but I like them all. Nice ensemble. Jayne was / is hilarious.
Fox agreed with you about the length, which is why they rejected this episode as the pilot and had Joss make a shorter one, which was episode 2.
Jumping in, I think you guys should do the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica
Don't watch the movie Serenity until AFTER you've seen all the episodes. It's the final episode that took years to finally get.
Pilots that are longer than the regular episodes is fairly common. If you thought this was too long I can't imagine what you would think of the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That trilogy's extended versions run 3+ hours, and it is considered by many to be the best movie trilogy of all time.
I think you guys would really like Dark Matter. A SyFy tv show. It didn't get a proper TV ending, but it had 3 seasons of really good writing. It's everything Killjoys *wanted* to be. And the overall theme makes me think of Firefly.
I think you need to be careful that you don't end up reading everything as sexist because of the Whedon controversies. A woman expressing sexuality is not sexist writing. In fact, I think most people would agree that the women in this show are written exceptionally well compared to most other media.
I'd agree. As a woman, and a fan of this show, the ladies in the show absolutely don't feel like "What men think women are like". They feel like genuine women, each with their own quirks, personalities, etc. And anything sexual isn't automatically just sexist writing - the women are allowed to express sexuality without it being "creepy writing because a man wrote it."