To address some queries: 1. Why no LC76? Because you can't buy one at the moment. I may compare LCs vs Grenadier & Quartermaster later. 2. Cost comparison - I chose the cheapest 4x4 models of each, and noted that standard equipment varies, usually in Grenadier's favour eg tyres and recovery points. Beyond that, the cost comparisons get complex and personal. 3. Why no G-Wagen in the comparison? It's no longer sold in Australia, which is my focus.
Thoughtful, balanced, comprehensive; delivered professionally and even taking the time and effort to solicit a response from Ineos…unlike some others in this space who substitute journalistic craftsmanship with hubris, hyperbole and their own self-importance…
Thanks...think INEOS are sick of my questions now :-) They also see my videos before I release, not because I want their approval, but if there's anything wrong it's in both our interests to correct it. I've never had a carmarker do this before, they generally don't care. Although I did not get a response when I sent them the draft of this one.
@@L2SFBC I think taking the trouble to contact the subject of the video for their input (if any), even if they don’t want to get involved, helps ensure the content and the delivery style is more balanced anyhow. If there’s no effort to independently check the facts, then the TH-cam space rapidly becomes a forum for rants, bigotry and misinformation. There are plenty of your “colleagues” for whom the quantity of their publishing trumps (?) its quality and whose style is angled more towards click bait and trolling of their own viewers rather than contributing to everyone’s ongoing education. But they certainly rake in the comments…
I've always, always sent a draft of my work to whoever is involved. Nobody wins if there are errors. This has led to shouting at me and legal threats - I recall one MD of a well known company in particular - but better that drama before publication than afterwards. I don't change conclusions unless facts change, and give the alternative view an airing. Yes I am well aware I'm missing on out revenue by not clickbaiting - my analysis of the Grenadier's payload could easily have been called "INEOS IS WRONG ABOUT THE GRENADIER PAYLOAD!!!" or some such, but I just can't bring myself to do the polemic thing however well it'd pay. The other problem is that research takes time, ranting into a camera in one take does not, so the production costs are quite different too. Sadly, the world is most interested in shallow, emotion-inducing clickbaity content. I am part of a little group of science, tech and engineering creators spread across the world and we all struggle with this problem, not helped by all being somewhat introverted and uncomfortable with the emotional displays required, and of course the necessary bending of the facts or at least selective omission in order to get the reaction that generates views and revenue.
@@L2SFBC well if you were up for it, you could do a video on “How I go about producing my video content” or “Why I don’t rant and rave and click-bait my own viewers” or similar. You may be doing a service to our fraternity by high-lighting what is a growing problem.
Solid review Robert. Everybody has their bias whether it's price point or usage. My wife and I made the decision to buy a Trialmaster based on expected usage, expected durability/capability over the next 10-15 years (and maybe beyond age 75) and value for money of the factory package. Noting there is no definitive aftermarket support in Australia at this stage and we're not getting younger. It's a bulky package but my wife reckons it looks much better than what's out there ;
Thanks Paul. My little corner of the Internet has a relatively low population of schoolyard banter. So far on this video there's only been one silly comment. Also, owners are not getting upset with the fact I pointed out some flaws, to consider the other side. Nothing is perfect and your cheap/durable/fit for purpose triangle is perfectly put.
The switches on the overhead would become second nature if you actually used them. If its a switch you rarely use, it might be a bit awkward to read, but a bit awkward 2 second lean and glance up once or twice a year is hardly worth fussing about.
Definately a good and overall fair/unbiased review, which is appreciated. I luckily ordered mine back in June 2022 when pricing was actually very competitive. I paid $132k NZ for a Trialmaster which was pretty well loaded with a lot of extras/ goodies. Building now on the site, the same car is $158k NZ, which is quite a hike. That being said, it's still less than a new defender or an "unobtainium" LC 300 here in New Zealand, although obviously far more than the Ford Everest or other Ute based 4X4's. However, I really do see the Grenadier as a better comparison with (and upgrade to) the pre-2018 G-wagon than any of the cars mentioned. However, I'm still waiting for my Grenadier and have been getting frustrated with the delays and lack of info from Ineos. So much so, that I did start to wonder about bailing and looking for something else. However, (In NZ anyway) there is really nothing comparable, and everytime I looked at other cars, they didn't quite tick the right boxes for me. The Patrol was a good option, but the dated interior and ultimately fuel consumption was a deal breaker. A LC 300 can be obtained second hand, but at a crazy pemium ($179k NZ!) . A couple of delivery miles LC76'S are available, but again at a premium ($106k) and when you add the cost of upgrading that old platform, the Ineos still looks like a great option. So for me, yes the Grenadier is starting to look quite expensive, but still not excessively so when you look at the true competitors.
Good review, keep 'em coming. The most disappointing part of your information was that the third party suppliers (ARB, Ironman 4x4, etc.) aren't designing products for this vehicle at this time. I kinda figured that is the point with this vehicle that it was a good platform to add what you like. Seems like many are on the fence about this vehicle.
The reason is that it's not cost-effective for them. They have only a limited amount of time and money, and need to direct that to the vehicles with greatest demand. That's not the Grenadier which hasn't sold much being so new, and there are range of OEM accessories already.
Bailed out halfway through the video mate , was getting nervous of you rushing through the review. Just calm down mate , if the video’s going to be 2 minutes longer , who cares ?!
The battery jump post is a great addition, seeing as the battery is under the rear seat. There is no need for a ground post if there are several big bolts available on the body, chassis or engine block. A suspension turret bolt can usually be found or, commonly, a lifting bracket at the front of the engine. Any will provide an adequately substantial earth point for jump starting either vehicle.
@@L2SFBC They probably assumed that everyone knew and also that nobody much reads documentation these days. Both are valid arguments but it doesn’t cover all people or bases. I’ve had similar posts on several vehicles, including a 2017 Volvo XC90 diesel which had a positive post and no obvious earth post. I recall that it had some documentation under the ‘how to jump start] category in the dashboard manual. It is, of course, well worth downloading the full operator’s manual off the internet into your phone, iPad and laptop for reference while away from base and with a flat battery that disables the on-board manual in the system screen.
I've jumpstarted many, many cars and I always check the manual just in case. Same for jacking up. There might be that one time that's its a bit different.
@@L2SFBC Certainly for jacking up. But let’s face it, probably the majority never look at the manual these days, even for this type of vehicle. Jacks are a bone of contention with me and seldom do manufacturers supply an adequate jack or jacking points that are easily accessible. There’s nowhere to use a hi-lift jack for instance. It doesn’t effect me in the UK because all my vehicles have roadside rescue and recovery cover and good agents to come out and change wheel or whatever all over the UK. Not so in other countries. I also have a workshop and a couple of trolley jacks and only last week changed all four wheels and tyres on my 2014 Ranger for new ones on the yard using cordless tools. On a long journey I always carry an impact wrench, drill, sockets and other small tools plus a couple of spare batteries. I also have a choice of carrying more than one spare wheel for both towing vehicle and trailer. This after a journey to Birmingham and back in a Land Cruiser 100 many years ago where I suffered two punctures with only one spare wheel. The last one at 1am 50 miles from home.
From South Africa... me again. HI 😂 what I would have expected (at the price) is an in-depth, on screen. trouble shooting and basic field repair guide. A "What to do if" manual, compiled in terms simpletons like me would understand, and even indexed to photos / videos .... it's data, weighs nothing, occupies no physical space and is downright useful... But then I'm an idiot.
Regarding your suggestions for relocating the buttons and switches, you quote your pilot pal as saying the "most frequently" used controls should be in line of sight / easiest to see and use. Note, not most important or most manly... rather "most frequently" used. The reality is most users are to be toggling on/off the heated seats >10x more frequently than the lockers. Maybe even >100x. Has anybody tried moving the controls around? Is the wiring harness flexible enough to allow easy customization or has it been "value engineered" so each wire is only as long as presently necessary?
If you are over 6 feet tall the visibility is limited , the roof line cuts in to your view , same goes for the passengers the view is blocked / limited ! why ? Right hand Drive cars have the stupid floor hump , unacceptable ! On a longer journey you will suffer . Otherwise Amazing car , well made and capable , hopefully these issues will get fixed , i will give it a miss as it is not suitable for me .
As expected, things addressed other reviews havent, such as the glove test, how do we jump start it and noting some 'bleedin obvious' points on exchanging switches between overhead and dashboard. Thanks and looking forward to an extended trip review!
@@philhealey4443 agreed, but once you know, it’s easy. The trade-off is nice dry, co electronics inside the cabin which also gives you more lithium options.
Great review. I enjoy your thorough method of showing every detail and its drawbacks. I think in the long term the robustness will show through compared to some other brands which appear cheeper now but wont have strong residuals. Think Honda bikes compared to Chinese.
Sea level is the reference point therefore altitude is ok. Meters / KM’s your happy with but not KPA’s ? They are part of the same system of measurement
Range, electronics buggering up storage space, second spare - and storage is pretty limited really 800mm is not enough - but I am used to a Disco where I can get sleeping room when I flatten the seats or remove the seats to give me room for water etc for a two week trip.
So refreshing to have a knowledgeable review that isn't inflicted with "know-it-all" attitude (like some Aus-based auto, cough, "experts"...). You clearly make a distinction between observation and personal opinion, and correct things with annotations when new info comes to light. It looks like a "Oh so close" touring vehicle, especially with the external fastening points etc, just let down by a few ergonomic decisions and perhaps some last minute costing issues in production.
Costs? In the UK only the two seat van variant may eventually qualify as a commercial vehicle for tax purposes. I ordered a utility five seater with a few accessories, the one with steel panels between the B and C pillars. However because it does not have a one ton payload it cannot have its VAT repaid or be offset against income tax. Just the VAT element means that a Ranger Wildtrak costs £42,000 including some extras like a powered roller cover, after claiming the VAT back. The Granadier costs £73,000. Is the difference in price worth it? Not to 99% of business users in the UK, no. To those that actually want it as a leisure vehicle and compare it to a rather better designed Land Rover Defender 110, well yes, certainly.
Thanks - noted the 1000kg payload issue in my weights video, and that above 3500kg MAM it is a commercial vehicle in the UK, therefore kerb/tare needed to be 2500kg or less. And it's way, way over that. So I agree the value equation doesn't work compared to say a Ranger.
You should improof your technically knowledge... Jump Start GND can be connect to nearly every metal peace of the car. NATO Std recepticle gives you opportunity to connect high power user, like rear winch or Jumpstart cable. Customized extras like lamp protection is always added aftermarket. I do shaere your concerns about snorkel.
It can be, but usually manufacturers are specific about what to do. In this case, INEOS was not. The NATO plug is great but nobody uses it in Australia, so pointless for our market. What I showed for the light is actually an OEM protector. And it's an RAI, not a snorkel.
Great review. The size of the boot was the biggest let down for me when I first saw it. Coming from a 110 Defender, I was hoping for something that could replace my Defender. I won't be able to get half the gear into the Grenadier that I can get into my Defender. The size of the boot and that footrest is spoiling an otherwise superb vehicle. Oh, and that eye-watering price! There is someone here in South Africa that now offers a 77 liter auxiliary tank.
BMW drivers are used to the jump start terminal. there is alwas some kind of big screw or nut as a negative terminal. often on the strut tower or engine block.
I struggled to watch the entirety of this video as most of your negative/confused comments were simply corrected by on screen texts...plus your heavy breaths between each sentence were very off putting. No thanks, I'll watch another in-depth review elsewhere..
Fair enough. A limitation of this review was time, I had to shoot without full knowledge of the vehicle and edit later. Most of the captions are extra info, not contradicting what I'm saying - when I had something wrong on camera, I added a voice-over instead of use the original audio, so it's all accurate and checked with INEOS.
Prado, Nissan Patrol, isuzu MUX and other ute based SUVs all are cheaper and have bigger driving range. i like the looks but price, driving range are the deal breakers. there should be a base model that is in price range of base models of other brands
Ineos are volume constrained for many reasons, including law in UK (fleet size capped due to poor fuel economy in part due to vehicle weight), factory output, high cost of initial quality control and startup supply chain, warranty math liabilities, staffing, sales and support dealer network. The LAST thing they want to do is sell a fixed volume of trucks at lower cost and reduced profit. Anti mission.
Great review. I have to say at the current price mine would be $148K on road and I would be out. Luckily I ordered mine in July 2022 and Ineos held the original price. So with a lot of factory accessories mine is $121K on road.
Website shit down before I placed deposit and new pricing was 13k more, but still liking the idea to what else is out there. I have yet to see a Toyota 300 under 130k in base guise around here, second hand Ute's are in caryards at 119k proudly displayed at front.
torx - Euro .. get with the program Robert! 🤣 Torx are so much better in the long run than hex bolts. But if you buy a Euro-centric, you need the more popular tools that are used in the Euro zone. ie. TORX!
Still prefer hex, one less set of tools to carry, maybe can use a shifter if you really need to. If everything used torx that'd be different, but that's not the case. Bit like wanting everything to be USB-C - a video I just finished - makes life easier with fewer things to carry.
@@L2SFBC that's a fair call, but a quick look around, and apart from one or two models, pretty much everything is Euro. For the Grenadier owner tho, if they've come from a non Euro model, they probably wont have many torx tools, so will need to get a bit more intimate with them I guess.
At first I was interested in buying one as soon as it's available on the market. But, after some test drives I started having some doubts, cuz I wanna fit big tyres, shocks and springs, winch, lights etc... Grenadier is too new. May be after 4/5 years. If it survived😂
@@L2SFBC after market parts aren't available yet, most of them are in developing stages. Example: to fit a 35 inch tyre is almost impossible, cuz suspension lift kits aren't available in the market yet.
Its a shame the back rests on the 2nd row of the Ineos do not have any tilt adjustment. Would have liked to have known where the alternator is located, to determine whether it's in a vulnerable position like the Land Cruiser.
Hi Robert, i think the 60 part of the 60/40 seat will fold flat/level if the centre headrest is also removed (see the @13:00 minute). What are the chances of a large MacDonald Coke making its way into the the electrics under 2nd row seat? Perhaps the footrest trim can be removed to lower your heel? Where can I get the accessory list with weights? Is it on their website? Do you think there is enough length, width and height to sleep two persons if a platform is constructed at the level of the folded 60/40 seat backs? Thanks for making this video. It covered a lot of useful info. Cheers
Yes, could be right, all that was in one take for time. I wouldn't worry overmuch about the Coke, can't see how it'd get in there. Footrest can be removed a bit yes Accessory list is on the website yes Yes if they're not too tall and maybe front seats forward a bit
In the USA when I did a similar cost comparison with Ford Bronco, Defender and Ineos, the Ineos came out cheaper although technically you could get a bronco cheaper it has nothing on it.
Having owned many 4WDS since 1977, there is no argument about owning a Grenadier, I own a Trialmaster. Those other wagons you talk about have fragile wishbone front ends only suitable for towing the boat or caravan.Ypu get what you pay for. When I was selling Harley Davidsons, we had a saying, if you have $10 head, buy a $10 helmet. The same applies to 4WDS.
The range is the deal breaker for me and that's s shame because it checks so many boxes otherwise. This is why Toyotas hybrid engine is so compelling for overlanding. You can usually get by with something rated at 650 km in the western U.S. but when we travel up north into Canada or Alaska, you really want something rated over 800.
Engine hours and most of those features can also be found on the latest Ford Ranger’s dashboard. The Ford also seems to have better access to and room in the second row seats. Also available with auxiliary pre-wiring and with switches and provision for a second battery in the engine bay. Range? Compare with the new Ranger 2.0 twin turbo and the Ranger can travel 600 miles/1000kms unladen and I’ve proven this with my own vehicle. Towing with about 5.5 tons gross train weight, the Ineos will only safely travel 250 miles compared to 375 miles with Ranger.
The footwell would be a deal breaker on long distances. Not suitable for people with long legs and need for foot space. I see myself being in pain after 2 hours.
The window visibility issue at 13:23 has to be the biggest con and downfall of this vehicle for me. I mean seriously not being able to see out the bloody side windows by turning your head to the side normally and having to lean your head down in an uncomfortable position is a massive design oversight and absolutely ridiculous, is there anyway to fix this issue? Lowering the seats might not be possible because of the batteries under the seats and cutting above the window would ruin the side curtain airbags so I can't think of a solution myself besides having a shop lower the seats with the small bit of room possible.
i don't think the switches would be an issue once you're familiar the car. and being designed in europe heated seats would get more use than lockers. australian accessory manufacturers will get on board when or if sales figures increase. they never jump on completely new vehicles because they might be a flash in the pan. not a big deal though, smaller manufacturers can make higher quality gear with specific usage in mind rather than a mass produced one size fits the masses. it's something i'd never buy, but i do think they did a good job, especially as a first effort.
Good solid review - the rear should have been longer - with the front seats back you should have a reasonable space for a bed and it could have been designed not to reduce the rear angle - put the batteries under the front seat like the defender and fit the electronics higher up - i would preferred a " failure mode " front screen with speed, temp , oil pressure , tire pressure all in front of the driver ( essentials ) and slightly bigger - but its a great car and it will sell well - the question is of course - is it going to be reliable ?
Good comment, agree with all that. Everything indicates it will be reliable from the engineering to the early experiences. But, we'll need to wait a little while to be sure.
Always appreciate your research and talks. I was tossing between this vehicle and LC78 18 months ago and ended up buying LC 78. I can build a perfect overland based on78 for 125K inc roof conversion
So disappointed with the price of this vehicle. I bought a new hilux in 21 because I just couldn’t wait any longer for the grenadier, I was hoping to upgrade after 3 or 4 years but that’s just never going to happen now. It was supposed to be classless like the old defender. It’s more like a G wagon in reality.
@@MrTreegeek1978 Heaps of these Grenadiers will sell , since $130k is a common price bracket for LC300/X5/GLE and many people can afford 125-150k written down , leased or cashed up .
@@npet6842 Let’s see in 10 years time. INEOS should do an absolute basic one for poor overlander with 1T payload, axle locking front and back and sell for 80k. Queue will be longer than CSR
Good video except for the cost comparison. Not really comparing apples with apples. IG base model still comes standard with two steel bumpers, two bash plates, four recovery points, traction control with a proper central diff lock. You could easily add $10k to the base cost of a LC300 and the 76 series base model GX (workmate) doesn’t have any traction control, so you’d have to add the cost of lockers as well. I personally got a quote for the very base model defender back in Oct and it was $107k with the 4wd package added…and that was 11 months ago.
I did mention that the IG comes with things like decent tyres and recovery points, which needs to be factored in. However, it still ends up way more expensive. Pretty much all the others have a centre diff lock. The base Grenadier doesn't have cross-axle lockers, that's Trialmaster.
I think you could’ve done a better job to list out the additional benefits you get for that base cost. You know just as well as I do that to add steel bumpers, recovery points and underbody protection to a standard vehicle like an LC 300 costs a significant amount of money aftermarket. The base 76 series does not have traction control whatsoever and has a narrower rear axle that needs to be fixed, If you have any hope of doing proper four-wheel driving on a beach. By omitting a more detailed summary, the costs on its own is misleading.
Most of the points you made Robert would more than likely be addressed by the aftermarket industry. Nevertheless a brilliant vehicle which I would buy in a heartbeat if I had the money spare.
For me, at 6’2” the foot rest is not an issue whatsoever. Even after major surgery on the knee following a fall from a ladder. I collected my Grenadier three weeks ago and drove it for five hours solid back to Somerset. No aches, pains, gripes or whinges. With the 5 seat commercial, the rear seats are positioned around 3” further forward, giving a little more room in the back cargo area. I have drawers fitted in the back that makes better use of the available space. Our South African brothers also know how to kit out a travel wagon. For European use, fuel capacity isn’t an issue either. For those lucky enough to receive their Grenadiers pre price hike, then they should be very happy bunnies indeed. Red Winch now offer an aftermarket winch set up which will be far superior to the current offering; double the rope capacity, as well as externally mounted. Cost should be comparable to the Ineos OEM winch, including bracketry and wiring (assuming you’ve already got the auxiliary wiring loom fitted). There are roof racks appearing in the UK including 3/4 length racks (soon to come from SA by EeziAwn. Very solid construction, as well as being fully welded). Great review Robert. Glad I’ve got my Grenadier. No regrets at all
You should be able to find Red Winches online. The model they are looking at using as an alternative for the OEM winch will be the Nomad (already available in 12v or 24v variants). Talk is of offering a complete front bumper with bracketry already attached, or a replacement centre section of the original three part bumper, with brackets etc on that. I queried them about whether front suspension will need upgrading to take the extra 37k sat on the front, and they are (hopefully) liaising with Ineos for some more technical data to be able answer that definitively. My understanding is that Ineos have seven different spring rates to cater for all their markets, with Australia probably being equipped with the heaviest spring rates due to roo bars and brush bars being offered as options.
@@L2SFBC Following BMW standard practice (since BMW are the engine electrics suppliers) the negative post will be the rather 'over-specified' bare stud and nut holding the positive terminal housing pressed steel bracket to the inner guard. Sometimes BMW screw a round post to the top of the stud, but perhaps Ineos considered that a bit redundant given the stud and nut will work fine.
I would be interested in your review of the 70 Series Troop Carrier with the 2.8 litre 1GD 4 cylinder diesel when it becomes available in the future, as a 4x4 touring vehicle. The 6 speed auto, 180 litre fuel tank, front and rear diff locks on the GXL spec and interior space are big ticket attractions. But lack of noise insulation is a negative as is the dissimilar track widths between the front and rear axles.
I have reviewed the 79 Series and found it....wanting. It is not an offroad weapon by any means.. Here's some 79 action th-cam.com/video/YsK4JQxoEpw/w-d-xo.html and if I can get one from Toyota, I'll review it.
Hi Robert, it’s so refreshing seeing your videos, looking deep into the practical and comfort points of every vehicle. I personally driving buses used to enjoy stretching my leg out and also my right at times driving to be able to relief the muscles do not understand why anyone would fit up footrest like this to stop being able to move your leg to stretch it. I have seen some owners removing the plate/footrest on some hand, drive vehicles to have more room for their foot, but they did say it got a little bit warm. I personally was looking at a two seater version with the idea of sleeping in the back . I’m a minimalist when it comes to carrying gear for weeks away (probably down to the years of experience driving, overland trucks and adventure bus tours in the northern Hemisphere. I hope the fuel tank option will be available soon. I’m just wondering if they’re going to make a petrol oversize fuel tank bar because I’d rather fit a petrol engine in New Zealand (allergic to diesel and need to wear gloves when fuelling) So my question is, does the bass version come with window winders instead of electric windows? I asked this because it’s much more handy to be able to wind a window up-and-down by hand while sleeping inside overnight. Do you think one would learn the switch positions on the overhead console, so you don’t have to look at them while using? I asked this because the old London double-deckers that I drove in Europe, had all the switches behind the driver seat two rows. top row lights upstairs, bottom row lights downstairs and headlights etc. Learn the positions, and we able to put our hand behind the driver seat, which was the idea behind the design and switch on an off lights as required. This was in the old-fashioned, half cab double-deckers. Team up your great work .
I think the base version 'Grenadier' comes with electric windows all round, but not 100% on that. Yes you'd get used to the switch positions in time, but also remember there are lights on the switches you need to look at...not ideal. The petrol engine doesn't need AdBlue so potentially use that space (19L+) for extra petrol.
@@L2SFBC thank you for your reply, I have forgotten about the adblue tank so fingers crossed if they don’t use the space and one is not made for this space that I could tig weld up a second reserve tank and pump fuel across into the main tank like I used to help make for Africa Overland trucks back in Europe days.
Just discovered your channel. Really good. I had a deposit on a Grenadier but bought a L663 that does get used and abused to enjoy its capabilities.. Its a cracking car but my D3 and D4 were much more practical.
I paid the reservation fee on the Grenadier 2 years ago with the very excited expectation (at the time) of getting the trayback version when it was released. I have recently taken the very disappointing decision to pull out from proceeding (at this time)… There’s not one single factor although the payload is the straw that has broken this particular camel’s back. At the risk of writing an epistle, here goes… I have felt a bit like the frog in the pot with a succession of disappointments about the Grenadier none of which was a deal-breaker in itself but all of which when combined have torpedoed this for me at this point in time. Firstly warranty, servicing and repairs including parts availability. Many new buyers are talking about a wide range of very basic build and pre-delivery issues and it does make me wonder if the vehicle’s production and delivery processes were truly ready for market. Weak fuel tank capacity (90 l) and no options for any increase at this point. 90 litres is just sub-par. Weak payload especially for its high GVM and no GVM upgrade possible at this point. I need at least 1000 kg to take bulbar, dual battery, compressor, off-road pack and so forth (min 200 kg), a light-weight, slide-on camper (550 kg) or 10% tow ball weight for a trailer (150 kg), family of 5 (say 300 kg min), fuel and water (min 100 kg) and a bit of gear (min 150 kg) and probably the weight of a roof rack or tray or tub canopy (if going for a trailer). 1000 kg payload is an entirely reasonable minimum expectation from this type of vehicle and it has totally failed on this point. The diesel engine needs AdBlue when even the new LC79 and the new Ford Ranger V6 engines don’t need AdBlue. No blind spot monitoring, no auto headlights, no rain sensing windscreen, no 360deg camera, limited AEB. Sure, not everyone will want these but they will be deciders for many prospective private buyers. Certainly I would like to have all of these although this by itself would not be a deal-breaker for me. At the price point and given the risks for buyers taking on a new vehicle from a new car manufacturer and given the other established competitor options already on the market, I cannot see miners, farmers or tradies taking this vehicle up in any numbers so that means sales will mostly be to recreational enthusiasts so sales numbers will be low and the aftermarket will only develop slowly and then only from 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers (not ARB, TJM etc) and/or will focus on cosmetic accessories rather than those that need extensive engineering and R&D. Flash cup holders and other 3-D printed gimmickry are just trivia. It’s things like the GVM upgrade and fuel tank capacity that are important. My configurator build price with my key factory options came to $125k and after allowing for what I deem to be essential aftermarket accessories was getting closer to $150k, assuming the aftermarket actually comes to the party. $150k is not only a lot of shekels in itself but raises the question as to whether this is value for money especially given the risks? Enthusiasts buy a vehicle based on what their heart says; (successful) businesses buy vehicles based on what their head says. I think the vehicle has, at the moment, ended up too Euro-centric and too much targeted at the well-heeled recreational user. At the time, I shook my head when I heard the Grenadier would be sponsoring a bicycling team (seriously?) and launching the vehicle at a festival of speed? And what vehicle in this category of dual-cab utes boasts of having a Toot horn rather than a serious payload? How do any of these reinforce its “built for purpose” motto in terms of what the vehicle was meant to be about. Personally, I feel I need to see 5 things happen over the next 3 years for me to take up a future Grenadier, which I would otherwise love to support Demonstrated success of Ineos’ build quality and pre delivery systems Demonstrated success of Ineos’ warranty promises, servicing and maintenance/repair systems Development of a strong or at least adequate aftermarket accessories supply ESP fuel tank, suspension lift, GVM/GCM upgrades. Several important safety and convenience items being made available as factory options. If Ineos offered the Quartermaster with a 4000 kg (optional) GVM (so payload of at about 1200 kg) then I’d still be willing to buy one. In the meantime I have placed an order a couple of weeks back for a 2024 Ford Ranger dual cab-chassis at 2/3 (or less) of the price of the Quartermaster with >1100 kg payload (after fitting tray) and an inexhaustible list of aftermarket options and accessories from the Tier 1 aftermarket suppliers (incl GVM upgrades). Focussing on meeting the needs of miners or farmers or tradies or preferably significant numbers of all three. At the moment the Grenadier seems to have lost its way and become more of a Sir Jim’s vanity project IMO. However I’m keeping a bet each way as I’m retaining my GRNADIR plates (purchased 2 years back) and am hoping Sir J will deliver the goods in the next iteration.
A fantastic post and one with which I almost entirely agree. When the Quartermaster came out I instantly posted about its payload which to me makes it a non-starter, no point looking any further and that's before you get to the price. I can't really think of a use case where you'd want a car like the Quartermaster and NOT need a decent payload. The Jeep Gladiator is similar, but that is not positioned as a serious workhorse/tourer/overlander so its payload can be, somewhat but not entirely, excused. The one other point you didn't mention is that the QM's spare tyre is in the tub which uses valuable space. It should be underslung where it doesn't take up room. The point on which we differ is INEOS sales and support; I'm seeing a lot of very good feedback on this from owners. I cannot really see a reason to recommend QM over other utes; it'll be good offroad, but not to the point where the lower payload and higher price make the extra worth it, and then there's safety etc...
@@L2SFBC I was only interested in the tray-back (which is supposed to be released soon after the tub) so the placement of the spare in the tub wasn’t as relevant to me but definitely another indicator that Ineos has not really understood the needs of Aussie buyers wrt their “utes”. I think it was a mistake from Ineos to try to making an almost simultaneous global release of the vehicle.
Great review, I love your videos. I would love to know your opinion also on g-wagon. Also I would love you consider european and us markets in your videos.
I can't see a reason to buy a G-Wagon over a Grenadier. The Grenadier is newer, better offroad, more practical for touring, probably safer, more accessories, more payload etc. And it's just as cool. The last G I drove had a silly 4x4 system, the Grenadier does not.
If you don't have swing space for large door because of another vehicle parked to close or obstruction, you can still get access with smaller door... how do you not gwt that?
Great comments, as an owner of one I whole heartly agree. The driving is probably a bit more enjoyable than you have given it credit for. The length of the back would have absolutely been better being 80- 100mm longer. There are some other annoyances that could have been improved, there are also other things those cheaper vehicles dont offer. Nothing is perfect, but dam if you like this care, you really like it!
One problem with buying a cheaper rig and throwing $30, 40, 50,000 of accessories is when you write it off in a crash. The Grenadier payout will be $123,000, the accessorised rig payout will be half that. If you do choose to insure $50,000 of accessories on a $70,000 vehicle, if that's even possible, your premium would be a dealbreaker. The weight of all those accessories will increase your fuel consumption, reduce your payload to close to zero, and then you wouldn't be able to tow an empty box trailer. Meanwhile the Grenadier would sail past towing a good sized van.
Not necessarily, Club4x4 and others do agreed value of accessories. My own car is insured for way more than its base value, for example. And the Grenadier needs all the same kit as any other 4x4, just some of it comes standard in Trialmaster especially.
@@L2SFBC Yes there are a few that do agreed value on accessories, but it's not cheap. When the kit is standard in a vehicle there is no extra premium required. You still have the weight and fuel consumption problem when adding $50k accessories to an IFS vehicle like the ones you mention, even if you are happy to cough up the insurance premium. While my Patrol is not a good caravan towing vehicle, it still excels at everything else I use it for and it has no annoying gongs, ever :) I was excited about the Grenadier at first, but I see no compelling reason to sell the Patrol and get one.
Thorough, reasoned, unbiased analysis - nice one! I'm in the UK market for a new working 4x4 (farm/forestry) that will also double-up with family/recreation/touring use. I took a Grenadier on test and was very impressed, actually staggered for a ground-up new build. I think credit is due. For me, in the limited UK market, it's up against Defender and Prado (I'm done with pick-ups). In stock, Utility (longer boot) Grenadiers work out £2k more than a run-out, top spec Prado and £12k less than a similar spec Defender, but I'll get the 20% VAT off the Grenadier... Known dependability (Prado) vs dynamic ability (Defender) vs ruggedised practicality (Grenadier).
The Toyotas have a more equal split so there's more point to opening the left door first. I would have preferred a single door and saved a bit of weight which could have meant more payload.
Robert misses the entire point here in this review. BUILT ON PURPOSE! How many vehicles exposed 3 pre-production versions sent out world wide over 3 years to break, review or comment? How many designs from ground up before, or by Magna Steyr? Overhead 4x4 switches? are ideal, hell your not locking diffs 90% of the time! Heaps of bitumen driving to get there. His comments on 90Ltr tank only? For the extreme 1900km range like the Canning, (which one doesn't do every day) 1x jerry can on rear, 2x 40 ltr diesel bladders in rear footwell ($600) that's 190 ltrs plenty for longest trip. Far cheaper than long range tanks (if you could fit them) for those trips. Bladders fold up are lighter not in use. This UV is described by most worldwide as a blank canvas. If you add up $25k aftermarket gear, the same price as a standard Grenadier! (Robert $98k not $110k price) plus no luxury tax as is a NB1 vehicle unlike Defender.(he didn't mention) Obviously biased on the Ranger. Grenadier is not required to argue unreliability or warranty issues with Land Rover, Ford, Toyota or Jeep. Robert - the Grenadier doesn't have LIMP mode! Given FREE, the 3D CAD User & maintenance manual, parts list etc even if repaired yourself 10 year drive train warranty holds. Robert didnt mention, all components & parts comonly available BMW, ( motors only been around 16 years,) ZF, BOSCH, Bilstein shocks, eibach springs, Brembo brakes, Carraro diffs, list goes on - BUILT ON PURPOSE. - unlike LR parts rip off. Just not desiged well enough for Robert. Think his review is not accurate & is personally slanted. I would have expected more as his technical reviews are very good. BTW He also forgot to mention. First new vehicle configured, purchased via online to an agent, not a dealer!
Thanks for that detailed comment. My response: 1. the prototype tour was good, but too late in the piece to actually change much significant. And what matters is the end result, not the process. 2. the switches; it's speed of need, not frequency of use. If you are on a difficult track and need lockers, you need them NOW. Same for HDC, and if the track turns from dirt to sand, then ESC off. Also, a new driver will find those switches much more easily if they're centrally located. They are important vehicle controls. Heated seats are not time-critical nor important in driving, so displace them. 3. I run LR tanks in all my 4x4s and not for the Canning. As per video, I used mine during a 'local' camping trip in the High Country. I don't want to take up space inside the vehicle with bladders and jerries. I also tow, and find the extra range immensely useful there too. There is a reason why people buy LR tanks and not jerries, paying the extra cost. If you don't want an LR tank I'm not about to argue with you, each to their own. 4. The LCT was mentioned in the video, take a look. 5. The Grenadier base price is $110k + onroads. Clearly states that on the website right now, "From $110,000". Probably used to be $98k a while back. 6. I'm sure the Grenadier ECU does have a LIMP mode, why wouldn't it? 7. No I didn't mention all the component suppliers. Like the origin story, I felt that information was already well known so why bother repeat it. I think the approach of sourcing from such suppliers is very wise.
Free lesson of the day. Altitude is the elevation ABOVE SEA LEVEL. The altimeter in aircraft reads ALTITUDE above sea level. The altimeter is set based on barometric pressure, unlike via gps in the Grenadier.
No, the altimeter in an aircraft refers to altitude above whatever it's set to, which may be the height of the airfield or some other reference. QFE, QNH, QNE etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altimeter_setting I don't know how the Grenadier determines its elevation, but I imagine it'd be GPS based as you suggest, not therefore subject to barometric variations.
Great review, really appreciate it but a bit harsh on the rear passenger seat veiw when reviewing for overland travel. Not too many overlanders travelling with people in the back. Love your channel ❤
True, but sometimes tallish people need to be in the back. Also, if Land Rover can make perfect seats back in 2005...why not INEOS in 2023? However the batteries are in the way. Probably no room in the engine bay. Everything is a compromise...
Thanks for this video, well done. One thing Im interested in, is info on the parts used. So Ive heard they 'used a BMW driveline,' 'used *fancy brand axles*,' anything else? This should increase spare part availability. Can a BMW shop work on a ineos driveline? How do these quality parts affect longevity?
The engine is BMW. The transmission is the ZF 8-speed. Axles are Carato. Transfer case is INEOS designed built by Tremec. Seats by Recaro. Winch by RED. This use of industry leading component suppliers is very smart in my view, all are high quality units. A "BMW shop" could handle the engine, the gearbox is very common, and the rest of the driveline is simple. This approach bodes well for longevity and ease of maintenance.
@@L2SFBCThe axles are from Carraro of Italy, an established manufacturer of tractor and truck axles. The transmission is the ZF 8HP75 in the diesel variant rated for 750Nm! The diesel engine is a variation of the existing BMW B57 six-cylinder 3.0L twin-turbo. The brakes are probably Brembo.
Would you mind mentioning how tall you are for reference when seeing how you fit in the various seats? I don’t recall it being mentioned in the video and I didn’t see it in a quick comments scan. Appreciate you taking the time to answer all the comments/questions on here!
Thank you so much Robert. Absolutely awesome analysis. I’ve only just found your channel. I think my new go to. I might even pop over to patreon. BTW the analysis of thr overhead panel was top notch. I loved the idea of it but when I drove one off road was disappointed. You have to stop and look up carefully to find stuff
Worst case we'd go off an exposed chassis point, but generally the owner's manual has more specific instructions, and often a negative post if there is a positive. Neither in this case. We'd have got the job done had we needed to though.
Enjoying your videos generally. Much better than others, although there are some things that I would do differently .. like your intro music.. I feel like there could be something more suitable than what you have. Re your comments on the switches, I would imagine most people would use seat heating , air con, audio etc etc controls 10x more than the offroad ones and so I think placement makes sense. Each to their own i guess. Great stuff otherwise
I'm not happy with the music either but can't find anything better. Not really my skill. Open to ideas. Controls - it's not so much frequency of use as urgency. If you want heated seats, you can wait a minute or two, no problem. If you want to turn off stop/start, then you can wait a little if needs be. If you turn a corner and find a rocky ascent, you need lockers and you need them NOW. Same for HDC. That hill might suddenly steepen or get slippery. You might turn a corner on a dirt road and find sand...you want ESC off, NOW. And so on. When touring, you want to be able to instantly reconfigure the car. One thing I loved with my D3 was high/range change on the move, used that often. On a long trip you want to keep moving, not stop, select, and continue, also if you're leading a trip that can cause a big stoppage for the group for no reason.
@@L2SFBC - Thanks for the reply! I understand what you're saying, and as I can safely assume you do more of the touring than I do I wont say that you're wrong. I will add though, that for a user like myself or my wife, I find myself wanting to change things like the air con/seats etc as Im driving, and I so the placement of those seems better for me now. Having said that Ive not yet received mine, and so if I change my mind ill come back and admit it you~ I was serious when I said I think your content is better, as you grow I think things like the music can play a part. For now enjoying your content v much
@L2SFBC The only point I'd make on moving difflock switches down is to guard against accidental deployment on the road although I can see present risk in selection when fumbling around in the overhead console. My G 'Military' (effectively the same as the W461 Professional) has switches down near the gear lever and they are prone to contact from phones etc. I'd have preferred the old style idiotproof pull up hydraulic levers, but anyway I've made a perspex cover fitted with magnets, having experienced a sudden mystery loss of willingness to go round corners. The Grenadier data readouts are impressive; can both main and auxiliary batteries be selected to view charging current etc? My G has a readout of both 24V and 12V system Voltages as well as engine hours (as a Saddo I did fit an hour meter also in my previous 290GD).
I'd want the cross-axle locker switches where I suggested them not down by the shifter which I agree is an area prone to accidental selection. I could probably have spent an hour on the Grenadier displays alone, very comprehensive!
@@L2SFBC The ony solution for that problem is to buy it. If you own the car, I do not see any problems driving it over a week or even longer. 😀 Another story, when you crash it at the fist 50 meters from the dealer.
To address some queries:
1. Why no LC76? Because you can't buy one at the moment. I may compare LCs vs Grenadier & Quartermaster later.
2. Cost comparison - I chose the cheapest 4x4 models of each, and noted that standard equipment varies, usually in Grenadier's favour eg tyres and recovery points. Beyond that, the cost comparisons get complex and personal.
3. Why no G-Wagen in the comparison? It's no longer sold in Australia, which is my focus.
This is the most informative video on the vehicle I’ve seen. Hats off. Well done.
Glad it was helpful!
Thoughtful, balanced, comprehensive; delivered professionally and even taking the time and effort to solicit a response from Ineos…unlike some others in this space who substitute journalistic craftsmanship with hubris, hyperbole and their own self-importance…
Thanks...think INEOS are sick of my questions now :-) They also see my videos before I release, not because I want their approval, but if there's anything wrong it's in both our interests to correct it. I've never had a carmarker do this before, they generally don't care. Although I did not get a response when I sent them the draft of this one.
@@L2SFBC I think taking the trouble to contact the subject of the video for their input (if any), even if they don’t want to get involved, helps ensure the content and the delivery style is more balanced anyhow. If there’s no effort to independently check the facts, then the TH-cam space rapidly becomes a forum for rants, bigotry and misinformation. There are plenty of your “colleagues” for whom the quantity of their publishing trumps (?) its quality and whose style is angled more towards click bait and trolling of their own viewers rather than contributing to everyone’s ongoing education. But they certainly rake in the comments…
I've always, always sent a draft of my work to whoever is involved. Nobody wins if there are errors. This has led to shouting at me and legal threats - I recall one MD of a well known company in particular - but better that drama before publication than afterwards. I don't change conclusions unless facts change, and give the alternative view an airing.
Yes I am well aware I'm missing on out revenue by not clickbaiting - my analysis of the Grenadier's payload could easily have been called "INEOS IS WRONG ABOUT THE GRENADIER PAYLOAD!!!" or some such, but I just can't bring myself to do the polemic thing however well it'd pay. The other problem is that research takes time, ranting into a camera in one take does not, so the production costs are quite different too. Sadly, the world is most interested in shallow, emotion-inducing clickbaity content. I am part of a little group of science, tech and engineering creators spread across the world and we all struggle with this problem, not helped by all being somewhat introverted and uncomfortable with the emotional displays required, and of course the necessary bending of the facts or at least selective omission in order to get the reaction that generates views and revenue.
@@L2SFBC well if you were up for it, you could do a video on “How I go about producing my video content” or “Why I don’t rant and rave and click-bait my own viewers” or similar. You may be doing a service to our fraternity by high-lighting what is a growing problem.
I've already done that to some extent here th-cam.com/video/K81d03WcQiQ/w-d-xo.html and here l2sfbc.com/automotive-journalism-in-2021/
Solid review Robert.
Everybody has their bias whether it's price point or usage.
My wife and I made the decision to buy a Trialmaster based on expected usage, expected durability/capability over the next 10-15 years (and maybe beyond age 75) and value for money of the factory package. Noting there is no definitive aftermarket support in Australia at this stage and we're not getting younger.
It's a bulky package but my wife reckons it looks much better than what's out there ;
Thanks Paul. My little corner of the Internet has a relatively low population of schoolyard banter. So far on this video there's only been one silly comment. Also, owners are not getting upset with the fact I pointed out some flaws, to consider the other side. Nothing is perfect and your cheap/durable/fit for purpose triangle is perfectly put.
The switches on the overhead would become second nature if you actually used them. If its a switch you rarely use, it might be a bit awkward to read, but a bit awkward 2 second lean and glance up once or twice a year is hardly worth fussing about.
Definately a good and overall fair/unbiased review, which is appreciated. I luckily ordered mine back in June 2022 when pricing was actually very competitive. I paid $132k NZ for a Trialmaster which was pretty well loaded with a lot of extras/ goodies. Building now on the site, the same car is $158k NZ, which is quite a hike. That being said, it's still less than a new defender or an "unobtainium" LC 300 here in New Zealand, although obviously far more than the Ford Everest or other Ute based 4X4's. However, I really do see the Grenadier as a better comparison with (and upgrade to) the pre-2018 G-wagon than any of the cars mentioned. However, I'm still waiting for my Grenadier and have been getting frustrated with the delays and lack of info from Ineos. So much so, that I did start to wonder about bailing and looking for something else. However, (In NZ anyway) there is really nothing comparable, and everytime I looked at other cars, they didn't quite tick the right boxes for me. The Patrol was a good option, but the dated interior and ultimately fuel consumption was a deal breaker. A LC 300 can be obtained second hand, but at a crazy pemium ($179k NZ!) . A couple of delivery miles LC76'S are available, but again at a premium ($106k) and when you add the cost of upgrading that old platform, the Ineos still looks like a great option. So for me, yes the Grenadier is starting to look quite expensive, but still not excessively so when you look at the true competitors.
Good review, keep 'em coming. The most disappointing part of your information was that the third party suppliers (ARB, Ironman 4x4, etc.) aren't designing products for this vehicle at this time. I kinda figured that is the point with this vehicle that it was a good platform to add what you like. Seems like many are on the fence about this vehicle.
The reason is that it's not cost-effective for them. They have only a limited amount of time and money, and need to direct that to the vehicles with greatest demand. That's not the Grenadier which hasn't sold much being so new, and there are range of OEM accessories already.
Bailed out halfway through the video mate , was getting nervous of you rushing through the review.
Just calm down mate , if the video’s going to be 2 minutes longer , who cares ?!
The battery jump post is a great addition, seeing as the battery is under the rear seat. There is no need for a ground post if there are several big bolts available on the body, chassis or engine block. A suspension turret bolt can usually be found or, commonly, a lifting bracket at the front of the engine. Any will provide an adequately substantial earth point for jump starting either vehicle.
Indeed, but I was looking for the official method which wasn't documented
@@L2SFBC They probably assumed that everyone knew and also that nobody much reads documentation these days. Both are valid arguments but it doesn’t cover all people or bases. I’ve had similar posts on several vehicles, including a 2017 Volvo XC90 diesel which had a positive post and no obvious earth post. I recall that it had some documentation under the ‘how to jump start] category in the dashboard manual. It is, of course, well worth downloading the full operator’s manual off the internet into your phone, iPad and laptop for reference while away from base and with a flat battery that disables the on-board manual in the system screen.
I've jumpstarted many, many cars and I always check the manual just in case. Same for jacking up. There might be that one time that's its a bit different.
@@L2SFBC Certainly for jacking up. But let’s face it, probably the majority never look at the manual these days, even for this type of vehicle. Jacks are a bone of contention with me and seldom do manufacturers supply an adequate jack or jacking points that are easily accessible. There’s nowhere to use a hi-lift jack for instance. It doesn’t effect me in the UK because all my vehicles have roadside rescue and recovery cover and good agents to come out and change wheel or whatever all over the UK. Not so in other countries. I also have a workshop and a couple of trolley jacks and only last week changed all four wheels and tyres on my 2014 Ranger for new ones on the yard using cordless tools. On a long journey I always carry an impact wrench, drill, sockets and other small tools plus a couple of spare batteries. I also have a choice of carrying more than one spare wheel for both towing vehicle and trailer. This after a journey to Birmingham and back in a Land Cruiser 100 many years ago where I suffered two punctures with only one spare wheel. The last one at 1am 50 miles from home.
From South Africa... me again. HI 😂
what I would have expected (at the price) is an in-depth, on screen. trouble shooting and basic field repair guide. A "What to do if" manual, compiled in terms simpletons like me would understand, and even indexed to photos / videos .... it's data, weighs nothing, occupies no physical space and is downright useful...
But then I'm an idiot.
Regarding your suggestions for relocating the buttons and switches, you quote your pilot pal as saying the "most frequently" used controls should be in line of sight / easiest to see and use.
Note, not most important or most manly... rather "most frequently" used. The reality is most users are to be toggling on/off the heated seats >10x more frequently than the lockers. Maybe even >100x.
Has anybody tried moving the controls around? Is the wiring harness flexible enough to allow easy customization or has it been "value engineered" so each wire is only as long as presently necessary?
From South Africa @ 65 I don't think the price amortized over use-life-span makes sense
If you are over 6 feet tall the visibility is limited , the roof line cuts in to your view , same goes for the passengers the view is blocked / limited ! why ?
Right hand Drive cars have the stupid floor hump , unacceptable ! On a longer journey you will suffer .
Otherwise Amazing car , well made and capable , hopefully these issues will get fixed , i will give it a miss as it is not suitable for me .
As expected, things addressed other reviews havent, such as the glove test, how do we jump start it and noting some 'bleedin obvious' points on exchanging switches between overhead and dashboard. Thanks and looking forward to an extended trip review!
The negative pole for jump start sits under the plastic engine cover.
@@gerritvr4 Not a place you'd intuitively go looking !
@@philhealey4443 agreed, but once you know, it’s easy. The trade-off is nice dry, co electronics inside the cabin which also gives you more lithium options.
I haven't had to jump start any of my cars since my old Holden in the 1970s.
The foot rest is a deal breaker. Shame. But it’s just too annoying on long distance travels.
Great review. I enjoy your thorough method of showing every detail and its drawbacks. I think in the long term the robustness will show through compared to some other brands which appear cheeper now but wont have strong residuals. Think Honda bikes compared to Chinese.
I am not even going to watch the video because I already know that it is the best touring vehicle available
Sorry mate - the 300 series is.
Sea level is the reference point therefore altitude is ok. Meters / KM’s your happy with but not KPA’s ? They are part of the same system of measurement
Brilliant review. The best out there by far!!!!
Range, electronics buggering up storage space, second spare - and storage is pretty limited really 800mm is not enough - but I am used to a Disco where I can get sleeping room when I flatten the seats or remove the seats to give me room for water etc for a two week trip.
Loved the Discovery seats, have also slept in it!
The footrest isn't there on left hand drive, as it covers a mechanical projection (exhaust or ..) under the car
So refreshing to have a knowledgeable review that isn't inflicted with "know-it-all" attitude (like some Aus-based auto, cough, "experts"...). You clearly make a distinction between observation and personal opinion, and correct things with annotations when new info comes to light.
It looks like a "Oh so close" touring vehicle, especially with the external fastening points etc, just let down by a few ergonomic decisions and perhaps some last minute costing issues in production.
I think smaller door first is ideal for dog I think.....
At least he has one to review unlike aspw. 😅
I'm sure Mr P-W could source one from his supporters if he wanted to.
I offered to drive the CSR with him in mine when it arrives!
@leftcoastoverland8750 How are you going to do CSR with little fuel tank?
@@SR-yq6zo take extra fuel in Jerry cans
@leftcoastoverland8750 I estimate it will need at least 5-6 20L jerry cans. Plus, all the other gear you need to carry.
Costs? In the UK only the two seat van variant may eventually qualify as a commercial vehicle for tax purposes. I ordered a utility five seater with a few accessories, the one with steel panels between the B and C pillars. However because it does not have a one ton payload it cannot have its VAT repaid or be offset against income tax. Just the VAT element means that a Ranger Wildtrak costs £42,000 including some extras like a powered roller cover, after claiming the VAT back. The Granadier costs £73,000. Is the difference in price worth it? Not to 99% of business users in the UK, no. To those that actually want it as a leisure vehicle and compare it to a rather better designed Land Rover Defender 110, well yes, certainly.
Thanks - noted the 1000kg payload issue in my weights video, and that above 3500kg MAM it is a commercial vehicle in the UK, therefore kerb/tare needed to be 2500kg or less. And it's way, way over that. So I agree the value equation doesn't work compared to say a Ranger.
You should improof your technically knowledge...
Jump Start GND can be connect to nearly every metal peace of the car.
NATO Std recepticle gives you opportunity to connect high power user, like rear winch or Jumpstart cable.
Customized extras like lamp protection is always added aftermarket.
I do shaere your concerns about snorkel.
It can be, but usually manufacturers are specific about what to do. In this case, INEOS was not. The NATO plug is great but nobody uses it in Australia, so pointless for our market. What I showed for the light is actually an OEM protector. And it's an RAI, not a snorkel.
Great review. The size of the boot was the biggest let down for me when I first saw it. Coming from a 110 Defender, I was hoping for something that could replace my Defender. I won't be able to get half the gear into the Grenadier that I can get into my Defender. The size of the boot and that footrest is spoiling an otherwise superb vehicle. Oh, and that eye-watering price! There is someone here in South Africa that now offers a 77 liter auxiliary tank.
Yes I really feel the boot should be another 100mm longer at least.
BMW drivers are used to the jump start terminal. there is alwas some kind of big screw or nut as a negative terminal. often on the strut tower or engine block.
Keep up the great work you’re doing and thank you for positively contributing to us the four-wheel-drive owner and buyer!
Thanks, will do!
I struggled to watch the entirety of this video as most of your negative/confused comments were simply corrected by on screen texts...plus your heavy breaths between each sentence were very off putting. No thanks, I'll watch another in-depth review elsewhere..
Fair enough. A limitation of this review was time, I had to shoot without full knowledge of the vehicle and edit later. Most of the captions are extra info, not contradicting what I'm saying - when I had something wrong on camera, I added a voice-over instead of use the original audio, so it's all accurate and checked with INEOS.
Jump start it from batteries under seat no probs
Prado, Nissan Patrol, isuzu MUX and other ute based SUVs all are cheaper and have bigger driving range.
i like the looks but price, driving range are the deal breakers. there should be a base model that is in price range of base models of other brands
Ineos are volume constrained for many reasons, including law in UK (fleet size capped due to poor fuel economy in part due to vehicle weight), factory output, high cost of initial quality control and startup supply chain, warranty math liabilities, staffing, sales and support dealer network. The LAST thing they want to do is sell a fixed volume of trucks at lower cost and reduced profit. Anti mission.
Great review. I have to say at the current price mine would be $148K on road and I would be out. Luckily I ordered mine in July 2022 and Ineos held the original price. So with a lot of factory accessories mine is $121K on road.
Website shit down before I placed deposit and new pricing was 13k more, but still liking the idea to what else is out there. I have yet to see a Toyota 300 under 130k in base guise around here, second hand Ute's are in caryards at 119k proudly displayed at front.
torx - Euro .. get with the program Robert! 🤣 Torx are so much better in the long run than hex bolts. But if you buy a Euro-centric, you need the more popular tools that are used in the Euro zone. ie. TORX!
Still prefer hex, one less set of tools to carry, maybe can use a shifter if you really need to. If everything used torx that'd be different, but that's not the case. Bit like wanting everything to be USB-C - a video I just finished - makes life easier with fewer things to carry.
@@L2SFBC that's a fair call, but a quick look around, and apart from one or two models, pretty much everything is Euro. For the Grenadier owner tho, if they've come from a non Euro model, they probably wont have many torx tools, so will need to get a bit more intimate with them I guess.
Some things could perhaps just be a wingnut..
At first I was interested in buying one as soon as it's available on the market. But, after some test drives I started having some doubts, cuz I wanna fit big tyres, shocks and springs, winch, lights etc... Grenadier is too new. May be after 4/5 years. If it survived😂
Why can't you fit all of that?
@@L2SFBC after market parts aren't available yet, most of them are in developing stages. Example: to fit a 35 inch tyre is almost impossible, cuz suspension lift kits aren't available in the market yet.
Its a shame the back rests on the 2nd row of the Ineos do not have any tilt adjustment. Would have liked to have known where the alternator is located, to determine whether it's in a vulnerable position like the Land Cruiser.
Maybe it's a sealed water cooled alternator common on Euro engines?
Hi Robert,
i think the 60 part of the 60/40 seat will fold flat/level if the centre headrest is also removed (see the @13:00 minute).
What are the chances of a large MacDonald Coke making its way into the the electrics under 2nd row seat?
Perhaps the footrest trim can be removed to lower your heel?
Where can I get the accessory list with weights? Is it on their website?
Do you think there is enough length, width and height to sleep two persons if a platform is constructed at the level of the folded 60/40 seat backs?
Thanks for making this video. It covered a lot of useful info.
Cheers
Yes, could be right, all that was in one take for time.
I wouldn't worry overmuch about the Coke, can't see how it'd get in there.
Footrest can be removed a bit yes
Accessory list is on the website yes
Yes if they're not too tall and maybe front seats forward a bit
In the USA when I did a similar cost comparison with Ford Bronco, Defender and Ineos, the Ineos came out cheaper although technically you could get a bronco cheaper it has nothing on it.
Interesting, good to know thanks!
Not even close a kitted out Bronco is wayyyy cheaper lol
I hope you will be able to review the Quartermaster as well.
I hope so
Really wish you could pronounce your 'Thats, thens etc' instead of Dens and Dats .
Thorry, I wish I could too as it does seem to upset people.
Criticizing people for their accents is gross. You might as well criticize him for his choice in parents or hairline.
Having owned many 4WDS since 1977, there is no argument about owning a Grenadier, I own a Trialmaster. Those other wagons you talk about have fragile wishbone front ends only suitable for towing the boat or caravan.Ypu get what you pay for. When I was selling Harley Davidsons, we had a saying, if you have $10 head, buy a $10 helmet. The same applies to 4WDS.
The range is the deal breaker for me and that's s shame because it checks so many boxes otherwise. This is why Toyotas hybrid engine is so compelling for overlanding. You can usually get by with something rated at 650 km in the western U.S. but when we travel up north into Canada or Alaska, you really want something rated over 800.
I recently got my Land Rover to an altitude of 0.5M, I can't imagine 314!
optional rotor blades is how it's done :-)
Engine hours and most of those features can also be found on the latest Ford Ranger’s dashboard. The Ford also seems to have better access to and room in the second row seats. Also available with auxiliary pre-wiring and with switches and provision for a second battery in the engine bay. Range? Compare with the new Ranger 2.0 twin turbo and the Ranger can travel 600 miles/1000kms unladen and I’ve proven this with my own vehicle. Towing with about 5.5 tons gross train weight, the Ineos will only safely travel 250 miles compared to 375 miles with Ranger.
The footwell would be a deal breaker on long distances. Not suitable for people with long legs and need for foot space. I see myself being in pain after 2 hours.
Opinion is mixed. It's a personal thing.
The window visibility issue at 13:23 has to be the biggest con and downfall of this vehicle for me. I mean seriously not being able to see out the bloody side windows by turning your head to the side normally and having to lean your head down in an uncomfortable position is a massive design oversight and absolutely ridiculous, is there anyway to fix this issue? Lowering the seats might not be possible because of the batteries under the seats and cutting above the window would ruin the side curtain airbags so I can't think of a solution myself besides having a shop lower the seats with the small bit of room possible.
Offroad are the least used buttons and with kids etc it's better they are out of the way.
It's not the number of times you use them that matters, its the importance of time when you are using thats key.
@@boc3499 This is the opposite of what he said his test pilot pal said. Which was frequency not importance.
i don't think the switches would be an issue once you're familiar the car. and being designed in europe heated seats would get more use than lockers.
australian accessory manufacturers will get on board when or if sales figures increase. they never jump on completely new vehicles because they might be a flash in the pan.
not a big deal though, smaller manufacturers can make higher quality gear with specific usage in mind rather than a mass produced one size fits the masses.
it's something i'd never buy, but i do think they did a good job, especially as a first effort.
Fair, detailed and honest review, much appreciated
Good solid review - the rear should have been longer - with the front seats back you should have a reasonable space for a bed and it could have been designed not to reduce the rear angle - put the batteries under the front seat like the defender and fit the electronics higher up - i would preferred a " failure mode " front screen with speed, temp , oil pressure , tire pressure all in front of the driver ( essentials ) and slightly bigger - but its a great car and it will sell well - the question is of course - is it going to be reliable ?
Good comment, agree with all that. Everything indicates it will be reliable from the engineering to the early experiences. But, we'll need to wait a little while to be sure.
i prefer 70 series with 2.8GD engine & auto tranny...simple, robust & reliable..
Always appreciate your research and talks.
I was tossing between this vehicle and LC78 18 months ago and ended up buying LC 78.
I can build a perfect overland based on78 for 125K inc roof conversion
Thanks and yes you can, $125k wouldn't see you drive off the lot in an INEOS Trialmaster.
So disappointed with the price of this vehicle. I bought a new hilux in 21 because I just couldn’t wait any longer for the grenadier, I was hoping to upgrade after 3 or 4 years but that’s just never going to happen now. It was supposed to be classless like the old defender. It’s more like a G wagon in reality.
@@MrTreegeek1978 Heaps of these Grenadiers will sell , since $130k is a common price bracket for LC300/X5/GLE and many people can afford 125-150k written down , leased or cashed up .
@@npet6842
Let’s see in 10 years time.
INEOS should do an absolute basic one for poor overlander with 1T payload, axle locking front and back and sell for 80k. Queue will be longer than CSR
@@RoamingRooma Not with that transmission and engine .
Good video except for the cost comparison. Not really comparing apples with apples. IG base model still comes standard with two steel bumpers, two bash plates, four recovery points, traction control with a proper central diff lock. You could easily add $10k to the base cost of a LC300 and the 76 series base model GX (workmate) doesn’t have any traction control, so you’d have to add the cost of lockers as well. I personally got a quote for the very base model defender back in Oct and it was $107k with the 4wd package added…and that was 11 months ago.
I did mention that the IG comes with things like decent tyres and recovery points, which needs to be factored in. However, it still ends up way more expensive.
Pretty much all the others have a centre diff lock. The base Grenadier doesn't have cross-axle lockers, that's Trialmaster.
I think you could’ve done a better job to list out the additional benefits you get for that base cost. You know just as well as I do that to add steel bumpers, recovery points and underbody protection to a standard vehicle like an LC 300 costs a significant amount of money aftermarket. The base 76 series does not have traction control whatsoever and has a narrower rear axle that needs to be fixed, If you have any hope of doing proper four-wheel driving on a beach. By omitting a more detailed summary, the costs on its own is misleading.
Most of the points you made Robert would more than likely be addressed by the aftermarket industry. Nevertheless a brilliant vehicle which I would buy in a heartbeat if I had the money spare.
For me, at 6’2” the foot rest is not an issue whatsoever. Even after major surgery on the knee following a fall from a ladder.
I collected my Grenadier three weeks ago and drove it for five hours solid back to Somerset. No aches, pains, gripes or whinges.
With the 5 seat commercial, the rear seats are positioned around 3” further forward, giving a little more room in the back cargo area.
I have drawers fitted in the back that makes better use of the available space. Our South African brothers also know how to kit out a travel wagon.
For European use, fuel capacity isn’t an issue either.
For those lucky enough to receive their Grenadiers pre price hike, then they should be very happy bunnies indeed.
Red Winch now offer an aftermarket winch set up which will be far superior to the current offering; double the rope capacity, as well as externally mounted. Cost should be comparable to the Ineos OEM winch, including bracketry and wiring (assuming you’ve already got the auxiliary wiring loom fitted).
There are roof racks appearing in the UK including 3/4 length racks (soon to come from SA by EeziAwn. Very solid construction, as well as being fully welded).
Great review Robert.
Glad I’ve got my Grenadier. No regrets at all
Thanks, great to hear! Useful additional information too. Agree re European use, you'd never get far enough away from a fuel station.
same I am 6 3 and it felt very wierd at first but a non issue
Would you be so kind as to post a link for that aftermarket winch, please?
RED Winches. Coming out in due course.
You should be able to find Red Winches online.
The model they are looking at using as an alternative for the OEM winch will be the Nomad (already available in 12v or 24v variants).
Talk is of offering a complete front bumper with bracketry already attached, or a replacement centre section of the original three part bumper, with brackets etc on that.
I queried them about whether front suspension will need upgrading to take the extra 37k sat on the front, and they are (hopefully) liaising with Ineos for some more technical data to be able answer that definitively.
My understanding is that Ineos have seven different spring rates to cater for all their markets, with Australia probably being equipped with the heaviest spring rates due to roo bars and brush bars being offered as options.
Excellent! Hoping that Andrew St Pierre White sees this
Why so?
@@L2SFBC Only because I am interested in his view as well as yours. The more the better.
Has he not made his views plain?
what an amzamazing car for the first release tho! a 2024 model might fix most of the issues
Maybe you can jump start the vehicle by using the + and then just the base metal point in the engine as the - Ive heard that once.
Jump starting is done only using plus terminal. Minus goes to the frame or some other ground.
The negative pole (earth) for jump start is under the edge of the plastic engine cover just close the the positive pole
Cant watch with the heavy breathing every sentence. Wtf is wrong with him
The whole car frame is your negative terminal for jump starting. The correct way to jump start.
yes, but sometimes there are specific points.
@@L2SFBC Following BMW standard practice (since BMW are the engine electrics suppliers) the negative post will be the rather 'over-specified' bare stud and nut holding the positive terminal housing pressed steel bracket to the inner guard. Sometimes BMW screw a round post to the top of the stud, but perhaps Ineos considered that a bit redundant given the stud and nut will work fine.
I would be interested in your review of the 70 Series Troop Carrier with the 2.8 litre 1GD 4 cylinder diesel when it becomes available in the future, as a 4x4 touring vehicle. The 6 speed auto, 180 litre fuel tank, front and rear diff locks on the GXL spec and interior space are big ticket attractions. But lack of noise insulation is a negative as is the dissimilar track widths between the front and rear axles.
I have reviewed the 79 Series and found it....wanting. It is not an offroad weapon by any means.. Here's some 79 action th-cam.com/video/YsK4JQxoEpw/w-d-xo.html and if I can get one from Toyota, I'll review it.
Hi Robert, it’s so refreshing seeing your videos, looking deep into the practical and comfort points of every vehicle.
I personally driving buses used to enjoy stretching my leg out and also my right at times driving to be able to relief the muscles do not understand why anyone would fit up footrest like this to stop being able to move your leg to stretch it.
I have seen some owners removing the plate/footrest on some hand, drive vehicles to have more room for their foot, but they did say it got a little bit warm.
I personally was looking at a two seater version with the idea of sleeping in the back .
I’m a minimalist when it comes to carrying gear for weeks away (probably down to the years of experience driving, overland trucks and adventure bus tours in the northern Hemisphere.
I hope the fuel tank option will be available soon. I’m just wondering if they’re going to make a petrol oversize fuel tank bar because I’d rather fit a petrol engine in New Zealand (allergic to diesel and need to wear gloves when fuelling)
So my question is, does the bass version come with window winders instead of electric windows? I asked this because it’s much more handy to be able to wind a window up-and-down by hand while sleeping inside overnight.
Do you think one would learn the switch positions on the overhead console, so you don’t have to look at them while using?
I asked this because the old London double-deckers that I drove in Europe, had all the switches behind the driver seat two rows.
top row lights upstairs, bottom row lights downstairs and headlights etc.
Learn the positions, and we able to put our hand behind the driver seat, which was the idea behind the design and switch on an off lights as required.
This was in the old-fashioned, half cab double-deckers.
Team up your great work .
I think the base version 'Grenadier' comes with electric windows all round, but not 100% on that.
Yes you'd get used to the switch positions in time, but also remember there are lights on the switches you need to look at...not ideal.
The petrol engine doesn't need AdBlue so potentially use that space (19L+) for extra petrol.
@@L2SFBC thank you for your reply, I have forgotten about the adblue tank so fingers crossed if they don’t use the space and one is not made for this space that I could tig weld up a second reserve tank and pump fuel across into the main tank like I used to help make for Africa Overland trucks back in Europe days.
@@L2SFBCI got base version, it has electric windows.
Very informative. Thank you!
Just discovered your channel. Really good. I had a deposit on a Grenadier but bought a L663 that does get used and abused to enjoy its capabilities.. Its a cracking car but my D3 and D4 were much more practical.
I agree, I loved my D3 and neither the Defender nor Discovery can match it for practicality.
I paid the reservation fee on the Grenadier 2 years ago with the very excited expectation (at the time) of getting the trayback version when it was released.
I have recently taken the very disappointing decision to pull out from proceeding (at this time)…
There’s not one single factor although the payload is the straw that has broken this particular camel’s back. At the risk of writing an epistle, here goes…
I have felt a bit like the frog in the pot with a succession of disappointments about the Grenadier none of which was a deal-breaker in itself but all of which when combined have torpedoed this for me at this point in time.
Firstly warranty, servicing and repairs including parts availability. Many new buyers are talking about a wide range of very basic build and pre-delivery issues and it does make me wonder if the vehicle’s production and delivery processes were truly ready for market.
Weak fuel tank capacity (90 l) and no options for any increase at this point. 90 litres is just sub-par.
Weak payload especially for its high GVM and no GVM upgrade possible at this point. I need at least 1000 kg to take bulbar, dual battery, compressor, off-road pack and so forth (min 200 kg), a light-weight, slide-on camper (550 kg) or 10% tow ball weight for a trailer (150 kg), family of 5 (say 300 kg min), fuel and water (min 100 kg) and a bit of gear (min 150 kg) and probably the weight of a roof rack or tray or tub canopy (if going for a trailer). 1000 kg payload is an entirely reasonable minimum expectation from this type of vehicle and it has totally failed on this point.
The diesel engine needs AdBlue when even the new LC79 and the new Ford Ranger V6 engines don’t need AdBlue.
No blind spot monitoring, no auto headlights, no rain sensing windscreen, no 360deg camera, limited AEB. Sure, not everyone will want these but they will be deciders for many prospective private buyers. Certainly I would like to have all of these although this by itself would not be a deal-breaker for me.
At the price point and given the risks for buyers taking on a new vehicle from a new car manufacturer and given the other established competitor options already on the market, I cannot see miners, farmers or tradies taking this vehicle up in any numbers so that means sales will mostly be to recreational enthusiasts so sales numbers will be low and the aftermarket will only develop slowly and then only from 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers (not ARB, TJM etc) and/or will focus on cosmetic accessories rather than those that need extensive engineering and R&D. Flash cup holders and other 3-D printed gimmickry are just trivia. It’s things like the GVM upgrade and fuel tank capacity that are important.
My configurator build price with my key factory options came to $125k and after allowing for what I deem to be essential aftermarket accessories was getting closer to $150k, assuming the aftermarket actually comes to the party. $150k is not only a lot of shekels in itself but raises the question as to whether this is value for money especially given the risks? Enthusiasts buy a vehicle based on what their heart says; (successful) businesses buy vehicles based on what their head says.
I think the vehicle has, at the moment, ended up too Euro-centric and too much targeted at the well-heeled recreational user. At the time, I shook my head when I heard the Grenadier would be sponsoring a bicycling team (seriously?) and launching the vehicle at a festival of speed? And what vehicle in this category of dual-cab utes boasts of having a Toot horn rather than a serious payload? How do any of these reinforce its “built for purpose” motto in terms of what the vehicle was meant to be about.
Personally, I feel I need to see 5 things happen over the next 3 years for me to take up a future Grenadier, which I would otherwise love to support
Demonstrated success of Ineos’ build quality and pre delivery systems
Demonstrated success of Ineos’ warranty promises, servicing and maintenance/repair systems
Development of a strong or at least adequate aftermarket accessories supply ESP fuel tank, suspension lift, GVM/GCM upgrades.
Several important safety and convenience items being made available as factory options.
If Ineos offered the Quartermaster with a 4000 kg (optional) GVM (so payload of at about 1200 kg) then I’d still be willing to buy one.
In the meantime I have placed an order a couple of weeks back for a 2024 Ford Ranger dual cab-chassis at 2/3 (or less) of the price of the Quartermaster with >1100 kg payload (after fitting tray) and an inexhaustible list of aftermarket options and accessories from the Tier 1 aftermarket suppliers (incl GVM upgrades).
Focussing on meeting the needs of miners or farmers or tradies or preferably significant numbers of all three. At the moment the Grenadier seems to have lost its way and become more of a Sir Jim’s vanity project IMO.
However I’m keeping a bet each way as I’m retaining my GRNADIR plates (purchased 2 years back) and am hoping Sir J will deliver the goods in the next iteration.
A fantastic post and one with which I almost entirely agree. When the Quartermaster came out I instantly posted about its payload which to me makes it a non-starter, no point looking any further and that's before you get to the price. I can't really think of a use case where you'd want a car like the Quartermaster and NOT need a decent payload. The Jeep Gladiator is similar, but that is not positioned as a serious workhorse/tourer/overlander so its payload can be, somewhat but not entirely, excused. The one other point you didn't mention is that the QM's spare tyre is in the tub which uses valuable space. It should be underslung where it doesn't take up room. The point on which we differ is INEOS sales and support; I'm seeing a lot of very good feedback on this from owners. I cannot really see a reason to recommend QM over other utes; it'll be good offroad, but not to the point where the lower payload and higher price make the extra worth it, and then there's safety etc...
@@L2SFBC I was only interested in the tray-back (which is supposed to be released soon after the tub) so the placement of the spare in the tub wasn’t as relevant to me but definitely another indicator that Ineos has not really understood the needs of Aussie buyers wrt their “utes”. I think it was a mistake from Ineos to try to making an almost simultaneous global release of the vehicle.
Great review, I love your videos. I would love to know your opinion also on g-wagon. Also I would love you consider european and us markets in your videos.
I can't see a reason to buy a G-Wagon over a Grenadier. The Grenadier is newer, better offroad, more practical for touring, probably safer, more accessories, more payload etc. And it's just as cool. The last G I drove had a silly 4x4 system, the Grenadier does not.
Current civilian production G-class has independent front suspension.
If you don't have swing space for large door because of another vehicle parked to close or obstruction, you can still get access with smaller door... how do you not gwt that?
The small door is so small it'd be hard to get anything out of it. So you'd end up opening the bigger door anyway almost all the time.
Great comments, as an owner of one I whole heartly agree. The driving is probably a bit more enjoyable than you have given it credit for. The length of the back would have absolutely been better being 80- 100mm longer. There are some other annoyances that could have been improved, there are also other things those cheaper vehicles dont offer. Nothing is perfect, but dam if you like this care, you really like it!
There's a lot to like!
One problem with buying a cheaper rig and throwing $30, 40, 50,000 of accessories is when you write it off in a crash. The Grenadier payout will be $123,000, the accessorised rig payout will be half that. If you do choose to insure $50,000 of accessories on a $70,000 vehicle, if that's even possible, your premium would be a dealbreaker. The weight of all those accessories will increase your fuel consumption, reduce your payload to close to zero, and then you wouldn't be able to tow an empty box trailer. Meanwhile the Grenadier would sail past towing a good sized van.
Not necessarily, Club4x4 and others do agreed value of accessories. My own car is insured for way more than its base value, for example. And the Grenadier needs all the same kit as any other 4x4, just some of it comes standard in Trialmaster especially.
@@L2SFBC Yes there are a few that do agreed value on accessories, but it's not cheap. When the kit is standard in a vehicle there is no extra premium required. You still have the weight and fuel consumption problem when adding $50k accessories to an IFS vehicle like the ones you mention, even if you are happy to cough up the insurance premium. While my Patrol is not a good caravan towing vehicle, it still excels at everything else I use it for and it has no annoying gongs, ever :) I was excited about the Grenadier at first, but I see no compelling reason to sell the Patrol and get one.
Thorough, reasoned, unbiased analysis - nice one! I'm in the UK market for a new working 4x4 (farm/forestry) that will also double-up with family/recreation/touring use. I took a Grenadier on test and was very impressed, actually staggered for a ground-up new build. I think credit is due. For me, in the limited UK market, it's up against Defender and Prado (I'm done with pick-ups). In stock, Utility (longer boot) Grenadiers work out £2k more than a run-out, top spec Prado and £12k less than a similar spec Defender, but I'll get the 20% VAT off the Grenadier... Known dependability (Prado) vs dynamic ability (Defender) vs ruggedised practicality (Grenadier).
Sounds like a Grenadier may in your future! All would do the job nicely for you, and Grenadier has a cool factor the others can't match.
Indeed! As a (multiple) Defender owner, it just feels proper! But a lot of wind noise above 70...@@L2SFBC
Don't all LC76 and LC78 rear doors open the same way? It's suddenly wrong now that Ineos are doing it?
The Toyotas have a more equal split so there's more point to opening the left door first. I would have preferred a single door and saved a bit of weight which could have meant more payload.
Robert misses the entire point here in this review. BUILT ON PURPOSE! How many vehicles exposed 3 pre-production versions sent out world wide over 3 years to break, review or comment? How many designs from ground up before, or by Magna Steyr?
Overhead 4x4 switches? are ideal, hell your not locking diffs 90% of the time! Heaps of bitumen driving to get there. His comments on 90Ltr tank only? For the extreme 1900km range like the Canning, (which one doesn't do every day) 1x jerry can on rear, 2x 40 ltr diesel bladders in rear footwell ($600) that's 190 ltrs plenty for longest trip. Far cheaper than long range tanks (if you could fit them) for those trips. Bladders fold up are lighter not in use. This UV is described by most worldwide as a blank canvas.
If you add up $25k aftermarket gear, the same price as a standard Grenadier! (Robert $98k not $110k price) plus no luxury tax as is a NB1 vehicle unlike Defender.(he didn't mention)
Obviously biased on the Ranger. Grenadier is not required to argue unreliability or warranty issues with Land Rover, Ford, Toyota or Jeep. Robert - the Grenadier doesn't have LIMP mode!
Given FREE, the 3D CAD User & maintenance manual, parts list etc even if repaired yourself 10 year drive train warranty holds.
Robert didnt mention, all components & parts comonly available BMW, ( motors only been around 16 years,) ZF, BOSCH, Bilstein shocks, eibach springs, Brembo brakes, Carraro diffs, list goes on - BUILT ON PURPOSE. - unlike LR parts rip off.
Just not desiged well enough for Robert. Think his review is not accurate & is personally slanted. I would have expected more as his technical reviews are very good.
BTW He also forgot to mention. First new vehicle configured, purchased via online to an agent, not a dealer!
Thanks for that detailed comment. My response:
1. the prototype tour was good, but too late in the piece to actually change much significant. And what matters is the end result, not the process.
2. the switches; it's speed of need, not frequency of use. If you are on a difficult track and need lockers, you need them NOW. Same for HDC, and if the track turns from dirt to sand, then ESC off. Also, a new driver will find those switches much more easily if they're centrally located. They are important vehicle controls. Heated seats are not time-critical nor important in driving, so displace them.
3. I run LR tanks in all my 4x4s and not for the Canning. As per video, I used mine during a 'local' camping trip in the High Country. I don't want to take up space inside the vehicle with bladders and jerries. I also tow, and find the extra range immensely useful there too. There is a reason why people buy LR tanks and not jerries, paying the extra cost. If you don't want an LR tank I'm not about to argue with you, each to their own.
4. The LCT was mentioned in the video, take a look.
5. The Grenadier base price is $110k + onroads. Clearly states that on the website right now, "From $110,000". Probably used to be $98k a while back.
6. I'm sure the Grenadier ECU does have a LIMP mode, why wouldn't it?
7. No I didn't mention all the component suppliers. Like the origin story, I felt that information was already well known so why bother repeat it. I think the approach of sourcing from such suppliers is very wise.
Also, the Grenadier is not by any means the first car to be sold online. Even if it was, then that'd have zero effect on its touring suitability.
Guessing you bought one then?
Free lesson of the day.
Altitude is the elevation ABOVE SEA LEVEL. The altimeter in aircraft reads ALTITUDE above sea level. The altimeter is set based on barometric pressure, unlike via gps in the Grenadier.
No, the altimeter in an aircraft refers to altitude above whatever it's set to, which may be the height of the airfield or some other reference. QFE, QNH, QNE etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altimeter_setting I don't know how the Grenadier determines its elevation, but I imagine it'd be GPS based as you suggest, not therefore subject to barometric variations.
Altitude is a flying term. Elevation relates to landscape and relief.
Great review, I like the way you present and explain everything. Keep up the great work. Cheers from the U.S.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great review, really appreciate it but a bit harsh on the rear passenger seat veiw when reviewing for overland travel. Not too many overlanders travelling with people in the back. Love your channel ❤
True, but sometimes tallish people need to be in the back. Also, if Land Rover can make perfect seats back in 2005...why not INEOS in 2023? However the batteries are in the way. Probably no room in the engine bay. Everything is a compromise...
Thanks for this video, well done.
One thing Im interested in, is info on the parts used. So Ive heard they 'used a BMW driveline,' 'used *fancy brand axles*,' anything else? This should increase spare part availability. Can a BMW shop work on a ineos driveline? How do these quality parts affect longevity?
The engine is BMW. The transmission is the ZF 8-speed. Axles are Carato. Transfer case is INEOS designed built by Tremec. Seats by Recaro. Winch by RED. This use of industry leading component suppliers is very smart in my view, all are high quality units. A "BMW shop" could handle the engine, the gearbox is very common, and the rest of the driveline is simple. This approach bodes well for longevity and ease of maintenance.
@@L2SFBCThe axles are from Carraro of Italy, an established manufacturer of tractor and truck axles. The transmission is the ZF 8HP75 in the diesel variant rated for 750Nm! The diesel engine is a variation of the existing BMW B57 six-cylinder 3.0L twin-turbo. The brakes are probably Brembo.
Would you mind mentioning how tall you are for reference when seeing how you fit in the various seats? I don’t recall it being mentioned in the video and I didn’t see it in a quick comments scan. Appreciate you taking the time to answer all the comments/questions on here!
I did mention I am 6.0ft tall :-)
@@L2SFBC Ahh, perfect! I guess that’s a problem with a little multitasking! 😬
❤️🙏 Love from Scotland 🙏❤️
you missed a real plus as far as std fitment. Front and rear lockers on the trialmaster as std as well as the double battery.
I did cover the battery. The lockers are mentioned in the offroad review here th-cam.com/video/KTgupbbRfog/w-d-xo.html
Incredible review which has prompted me to subscribe. Well done!
Awesome, thank you!
2nd-row review with exterior view made my day 😂
11:15 torx are pretty common on cars post 2010
Small door open first is good for city driving when you have tight parking spaces.
Also when towing as access to the rear is easy.
Excellent video really enjoyed watching this.
Glad you enjoyed it please share!
Are the open doors going to drain the battery on the computer like the Defender?
I doubt INEOS would make a mistake of that magnitude!
Excellent video. Clear and informative. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
High quality assessment.
Thank you so much Robert. Absolutely awesome analysis. I’ve only just found your channel. I think my new go to. I might even pop over to patreon. BTW the analysis of thr overhead panel was top notch. I loved the idea of it but when I drove one off road was disappointed. You have to stop and look up carefully to find stuff
I hope to see a review of the new 76 series 2.8 auto!
It would become easier with use but still no ideal
If I can get one...
All great points, let hope someone at the Ineos is watching this video.
thanks
Another great video Robert!
Not sure how to jump start! Really??
Worst case we'd go off an exposed chassis point, but generally the owner's manual has more specific instructions, and often a negative post if there is a positive. Neither in this case. We'd have got the job done had we needed to though.
Enjoying your videos generally. Much better than others, although there are some things that I would do differently .. like your intro music.. I feel like there could be something more suitable than what you have. Re your comments on the switches, I would imagine most people would use seat heating , air con, audio etc etc controls 10x more than the offroad ones and so I think placement makes sense. Each to their own i guess.
Great stuff otherwise
I'm not happy with the music either but can't find anything better. Not really my skill. Open to ideas. Controls - it's not so much frequency of use as urgency. If you want heated seats, you can wait a minute or two, no problem. If you want to turn off stop/start, then you can wait a little if needs be. If you turn a corner and find a rocky ascent, you need lockers and you need them NOW. Same for HDC. That hill might suddenly steepen or get slippery. You might turn a corner on a dirt road and find sand...you want ESC off, NOW. And so on. When touring, you want to be able to instantly reconfigure the car. One thing I loved with my D3 was high/range change on the move, used that often. On a long trip you want to keep moving, not stop, select, and continue, also if you're leading a trip that can cause a big stoppage for the group for no reason.
@@L2SFBC - Thanks for the reply! I understand what you're saying, and as I can safely assume you do more of the touring than I do I wont say that you're wrong. I will add though, that for a user like myself or my wife, I find myself wanting to change things like the air con/seats etc as Im driving, and I so the placement of those seems better for me now. Having said that Ive not yet received mine, and so if I change my mind ill come back and admit it you~
I was serious when I said I think your content is better, as you grow I think things like the music can play a part. For now enjoying your content v much
@L2SFBC The only point I'd make on moving difflock switches down is to guard against accidental deployment on the road although I can see present risk in selection when fumbling around in the overhead console.
My G 'Military' (effectively the same as the W461 Professional) has switches down near the gear lever and they are prone to contact from phones etc. I'd have preferred the old style idiotproof pull up hydraulic levers, but anyway I've made a perspex cover fitted with magnets, having experienced a sudden mystery loss of willingness to go round corners. The Grenadier data readouts are impressive; can both main and auxiliary batteries be selected to view charging current etc? My G has a readout of both 24V and 12V system Voltages as well as engine hours (as a Saddo I did fit an hour meter also in my previous 290GD).
I'd want the cross-axle locker switches where I suggested them not down by the shifter which I agree is an area prone to accidental selection. I could probably have spent an hour on the Grenadier displays alone, very comprehensive!
TOP Channel
For this review, you got a follow
thanks!
Great review. Thank you
Thanks for watching!
After a week or so driving one you just get used to where the switches are .
I would expect so, but not everyone will have the luxury of driving it for a week to learn. I feel it's important for a 4x4 to be instantly usuable.
@@L2SFBC The ony solution for that problem is to buy it. If you own the car, I do not see any problems driving it over a week or even longer. 😀
Another story, when you crash it at the fist 50 meters from the dealer.
happy with my sdv6 2015 hse thanks
Who signed off on the foot rest?
Inevitable consequence of whoever signed off on the engine. Ultimately the boss himself.