Regarding curved traces: For high speed signals, signals with fast edges, higher frequencies, etc. you want a constant impedance from beginning to end of the trace. Part of that is maintaining constant trace width. If you made a 90 degree bend, the trace would be wider from the inside of the corner to the outside. 45 degree bends are better. Curved is pretty much ideal for maintaining constant trace width. It also allows for easy length matching of traces in Altium or other software. Regarding FR4: It’s inherently a less consistent and homogeneous material than materials made specifically to have a controlled dielectric constant like RT/duroid. FR4 is also anisotropic, meaning different properties in different directions. But you can’t be guaranteed anything about how it is manufactured, especially batch to batch. Even if your pcb printing house used a trusted FR4 supplier and orientated it the same way every time, you would have variation. Adding random direction changes will not ‘average out’ the differences, it will only move you away from the ideal constant trace impedance. In short, worry about all the other things that will effect signal integrity before considering the direction of the traces.
Quick note: you need not constant impendance, but constant _wave_ impendance. Otherwise signal will be weakened(bad for receiveing end) and reflected(bad for sender, can potentially burn it). Wave impendance is complex in both senses. Bless my uni professor.
Speaking from 5 years of professional experience in developing metro DWDM fiberoptic equipment here. The name of the game is always about reducing the price of production. 10 GbE lanes is going to cause more problems and be more expensive than anything else on that board. A 12 layer PCB is an expensive headache. When dealing with 10 GHz, everything is either a transmitter or an antenna and it works in 3 dimensions. Even following best practices of having grounded shielding layers above and below the 10 GHz lanes layer, and having grounded dampening lanes between each data lane, radio interference will still cause issues. Hard to debug issues. My advice would be to opt for fewer layers and use a larger PCB instead. Most importantly, keep anything 10 GHz away from the rest of the circuitry as far as possible. Reduce your design to maximum 4 PCB layers. (Cisco, Alcatel Lucent, Infinera, etc, rarely goes higher than that for very good reasons.) By all means make the analog signal as nice as possible by following the above mentioned design rules, but always consider if you can make your design cheaper by slapping a ton of FEC (forward error correction) on your lanes instead. Even adding extra lanes purely for FEC is often cheaper than using expensive components and cheaper than adding more PCB layers to achieve better analog signals. That's how the big boys do it. Cheap components, shit design full of compromises and lots radio interference, and then go captain overboard with FEC. The end user will never know the difference and it will achieve the same results at a lower cost.
@@unicornengineer Ehhh, I liked the other two comments, but this was severely condescending. I hope he chooses to go for better than their standards, otherwise the product he's trying to make is worthless for it to be run of the mill like "How the big boys do it." Pass on this "Unicorn", heavy pass.
@@steezegod2768I'm curious, what exactly is it that you find so offensive? Apologies if I bruised your feelings, but industry standard practices are there to make better products. Heavy forward error correction has the added advantage of making the device resistant to noisy radio environments so the end product actually ends up being of perceived higher quality. And as for keeping costs down, that's just a question of choices. Do you want to build a device for 50 wealthy enthusiasts or for millions of real world users. Fortunately the builders are free to choose. Everyone can have an opinion, but in the end, engineering is not a democracy.
Awesome work Tomaz! thanks for the update Being Greek let me suggest some greek words for the naming, which are inspired by the Cloud Native world (Istio, Kubernetes, Kiali etc) 1. Pylon (Πύλων - "Gateway" or "Portal") - suggests a passage or gateway within a network. (I like this a lot) 2. Dromos (Δρόμος - "Path" or "Route") - suggests routing paths in networking. 3. Kentro (Κέντρο - "Center" or "Hub") - suggests a central point in a network. 4. Synapse (Σύναψη - "Connection" or "Link") - suggests connectivity in networks . 5. Helio / Ilios (Ήλιος - "Sun") - suggests photon light speed in networking . 6. Sima (Σήμα - "Signal") - suggests data signals or communication. 7. Kyma (Κύμα - "Wave") - suggests waves of data streams passing through the router. 8. Nefos (Νεφός - "Cloud") - suggests cloud-based networking.
This is good news. Keeping a firewall/router security patched is important, and getting a small run from a small company that might not be around in 2year, 5year 10year, would be an issue if not open source. Not that I wish bad, but life and reality are much different from what we wish.
This is why the compute module approach has become so popular, the main ASIC BGA is typically the only hard PCB to design so using a reference one saves a lot of time on development.
I just noticed that the CR2032 Holder you have in 14:47 is probably also a Würth Electronic part. Be careful, the pins are in the wrong order on the connector (from the Würth parts library on their website). Depending on what you use it for, it might get very expensive to put -3V in a system. The issue is already reported to Würth, they just have not fixed it afaik
FYI, Portal would have been a terrible name, as searching "Portal router" or "Portal networking" brings up results relating to the video game. Whatever you pick, make sure that it's a unique enough search term when combined with networking phrases.
One time I found hotel called "Address" in local language. Very creative, simple design and good service. But I'm able to find only via map application because of that name...
19:43 I have a fun experience with this at my previous company … During a first generation prototype phase for a high end product, some lines were switched to the DDR4 ram chips. The entire run of 10 prototypes had bom in the range of 3 to 5 thousand euros each with 16 layer PCBs, FPGA, application class CPU, high end DAC etc… we really couldn’t afford to throw away what we had, so we went the route of trying to fix them. In the end, we had a company remove the CPUs and while remounting new CPUs, insulate the problem balls with kapton tape and micro-solder some leads to fix the routing. When we got them back, 9 out of 10 boards were operational and we managed to do the bring up on them! It was so tense but a very good learning experience in the end.
I've had many issues sourcing specialized RJ45 connectors with pin-outs that match something that was discontinued. If you're having issues with getting them now, you may want to do some layout and routing on a similar board that flips the pins 180 degrees or has some other common pin-out in case they discontinue it or there's a supply crunch like during the pandemic.
Please make sure device will be compatible with SFP ONUs, because in majority of cases at home you will likely see GPON or EPON. Those SFP ONUs heat up considerably and can overheat some components placed nearby SFP ports, especially in a small package router like this. It was a problem with Mikrotik HEx S I got. And having at least one PoE out would be great.
Indeed that is absolutely 100% mandatory that have become compatible with saplans for all the fiber that's being rolled out without that it makes the Box completely useless
I'm afraid your mechanical problems are not over. Leaving such a large overhang for connectors which are going to be ab-used by users, with folks pulling on the cable as they stumble over it, yanking usb sticks with excessive force, is surely going to bend pcb and cause ceramic caps to crack (DFM rule number 1 - don't place MLCCs near mounting holes and connectors, where they will experience maximum mechanical stress).
I named my OPNsense router "Senkaimon" In Japanese culture, Senkaimon () refers to a dimensional gateway or portal that allows Soul Reapers (Shinigami) to travel between the Soul Society and the Human World.
14:00 I am getting flashbacks at what is happening to motherboards. You know how they used to have 8 segment displays to tell you stuff and now you are happy if you get at least some LEDs? You have an entire I2C driver, just to drive a single LED, instead of adding, I don't know, an OLED display? What the actual frick?
I mean attaching a whole ass oled display is kinda of a waste especially if they send it to consumers since they will barely use it. But I think for troubleshooting / development they could definitely expose 4 pins so that they can attach an I2C 7-segment display to it. That might be a bit easier to read, more cost effective and lower power usage than an o-led display.
Hestia. Is the Greek goddess that connects the people. She was actually the goddess of home, but her name means fireside. In Ancient Greece, the fireside was considered the center of the house, where everyone gathered. It was believed that Hestia’s presence at the fireside fostered a sense of unity and community among the people, ensuring the vitality and warmth of the home.
I still find it very sad to see that you guys didn’t think about PoE for powering the appliance. There are so many applications where this could be a deal breaker.
Instead of 1gb ram chips for the lower end version, why not always use the 2gb chips. That way there will be empty pads which could be soldered on/upgraded later if the user wanted to go through with that
as far as I know with my radio course - everything is antenna, especially not terminated pads in memory Also, here used *specifically* ECC functionality, which requires 4+1 memory chips (although 8+1 exists)
Hello Tomaž! For the product name, how about "GigaTier". The device is capable of processing Gigabits of data per second, so it's clearly a "Giga-tier" device. Also, since the "Giga" name suggests a performance capability, then the "pro", "lite", or "mini" sub-products would also directly relate to the device forwarding performance. As with most enterprise network gear, we never use actual product names, but rather their abbreviations, so this would result in "GTpro", "GTlite", or "GTmini", or to stylize it a bit, "GT.pro", "GT.lite", or "GT.mini". Keep fighting the good fight and I cannot wait to see your final version! Greets from Ireland!
got to be a "Pathfinder" then the follow up "Pathfinder Lite" simply because wikipedia says "a pathfinder is a specialized soldier inserted or dropped into place in order to set up and operate drop zones, pickup zones"
Pathfinder is not a good I need for something like this especially with your connotation disorders my dad was sister works for part of his military career is a tunnel rat Pathfinder and that's a hell lot more important than any router (he went on from that start to the GBs and would have been Deltas or had he not retired from the mil at that point Anyhow as for the box pathfinder wouldn't be right for the connotation regardless since the router is more of the in charge braking orders So if I was to use a mil term "Gunnery Sgt" would be more appropriate with the mentalmoic of the infamous Hardman from FMJ. Funny my 1st drill sgt reminded me of him in several ways.. only with a wicked sense of humor picking on us flybois lol
Great to see the progress and that you are trying to use free software instead of the proprietary NXP software. Looking forward to the next update! Some names: * Packet Warper * WANSlinger * JellyPacket * piconet * nanostream * packet boi * YeetRouter
Great to see people working on this. With the new faster internet connections, there is a lack of good quality and affordable home routers. It's very easy to get 10gbit connections now, but the router options are almost zero.
Seeing as the router will primarily be used with SFP ports and optical transceivers, calling it the Photon router could work. "Light Photon" or "Photon Light" is even a nice little play on words for the mini version!
Curved Traces: For high-speed signals, keeping impedance consistent is critical. Sharp 90° bends can cause impedance issues because the trace widens at the corner. 45° bends are better than 90° because they reduce impedance changes, but curved traces are ideal for maintaining a constant width and impedance. Curved traces also make it easier to match trace lengths, which is important for high-speed designs. FR4 Material: FR4 isn’t as consistent as materials like Rogers RT/duroid, which are designed for controlled dielectric properties. FR4 can vary in quality between batches and has different properties depending on the direction, making it less predictable for high-frequency designs. Random trace directions won’t "average out" these variations and can actually worsen impedance consistency. Key Takeaway: Focus on big factors like proper routing, ground planes, and reducing crosstalk before worrying about trace direction. If your design is very high-speed, consider using curved traces and upgrading to better materials for more consistent performance.
12 layers for this project is really insane. 6 layers or hardly 8 layers are enough for this sort of design. You dont need dedicated power plane layer. Instead I would used those as GND or signal layer with each signal layer attached to adjacent GND plane. DC-DC converters are placed here and there in the board. they should have been placed in one area as they are the source of noise in the design. in case metal shielding is needed it is easier to cover all switching circuitry using one or two shield. For the name my proposal will be "Lane Master"
they could also save space if they used a few PMICs that had like 4 synchronous bucks in them als i noticed some tantalum s and electrolytic s , might not need them if you go higher frequency SMPS Regarding layer count i am very courious that is the actual area used on each layer , the MPU is sort of fine pitch but not that large also it is a HDI stackup and that is the expensive part add 2 layers or make it HDI not both BUT like he said they sort of did this themselves in a rush so 12 may be to make it in time and them rev 2 is well thought and at 8-10 layers maybe there is a video and we can have a few glimpses and judge then better
When it comes to PCB design for high-speed (frequency) boards, you want to create separate power planes and distribute them throughout the layers of the board with ground planes nearby. This ensures you don’t have long return paths or create large inductive loops. Routing signals and power on the same layers, or adjacent layers, without separation of a ground plane is a recipe for disaster. These boards need to pass EMI tests and without those considerations, they never will. Besides the testing, that EMI will also affect signal quality. If you’re interested in learning more about advanced PCB design considerations, there are some great videos by Rick Hartley from Altium!
I really hope the body will be made out of steel and not resin, we do need to isolate the router from outside signalling and use it as a heatsink to lower the heat generated by the board.
Dravalink, SavaSync, SočaStream. Each of these a tribute to rivers in Slovenia, also symbolic as rivers and data flow relate with strength, steady flow and broad connections. Keep up the great work!
Since this is a critial security device there should be a way to know if the access doors for M.2 have been opened. Sounds paranoid but could be very helpful if deployed remotly.
Same. So I started with Solid Edge. Man oh man is it hard ot make even a pc case according to ATX specs. Also have KiCad installed, made a numpad. I think. Maybe. I hope. And that took 4 weeks. I kind of wnated something like this but it will never happen. Just 4×2.5Gb ports with poe for access points and x86 and the access points too. Hard to find, Soekris gave up years ago, PcEngines will not be designing a replacement.
Some suggestions for the name below. Sorry, it's a lot :p BRAMA - Polish word meaning "gateway/portal" (i think) ELARA. - Jupiter sattelite AURA - Simple, like radiance NEXORA - Modern combo with "nexus" (Latin for connection) ATLAS - From Greek mythology OMERON - Inspired by "omni" (Latin for "all") AETHER - Greek for sky MOC - Polish for "power" VOLTA - Inspired by "power" as well NOVA - Something like innovation VELA - from constellation names LYRA - from constellation names
Why is the USB-C PD input 20V? Are you expecting it to consume more than 45W? Because any PD device up to 15W should use 5V, up to 27W should use 9V, up and up to 45W should use 15V. It is only *after* 45W that you are supposed to ask for 20V!
I don't remember this being discussed: have you considered SO-DIMM sticks instead of soldered RAM? Also, naming: Zaman Zaman Lite (1G + 16G) Zaman (2G + 32G) Zaman Pro (4G + 64G) Zaman FE (Same as Pro with extra goodies?)
Uto, Uuro, Yuto these felt like really cool router/model names :D As far as I looked, there is also no similar brand/models that exist in the networking space.
How about "The Ultomaž Router" - a play on ultimate and recognising the original inspiration? Ultomaž Mini / Ultomaž Lite should work too, which we will all just refer to as the mini-tomaž :D
@@tomazzaman Of course the risk with calling anything "Ultimate" or "Final" is that just after you do, you realise you made a mistake somewhere and have to build another one :D How about "The Slovenian Packet Slinger" or "Slovenian Packet Pusher"? :)
Soldered down firmware. Does this have a recovery option if someone oops's it? Also some suggestions: Make an option for rack mount OLED display Status led's to the front please, no one looks at the back of the rack (its a mess) - you can use a lightpipe to show it anywhere you want
At @10:46 Bravo Tomaž! 🥳 Looking forward to the promised separate video! I will consider the name and if suggestions come to mind, reply again. Thank you for the update.
Zenith or Zenith 1 could be the a good choice. It flows well with more descriptive names at the end like Zenith 1: The Ultimate Router. Zenith and '1' emphasize its ultimate status. It would work well for other variations Zenith 1 Mini, Zenith 1 Max, etc
For the name, call it RoZa or ToZa router :) Looking forward to see that product taking off, can kinda see clearly your excitement and enthusiasm too :) Odlično, potek projekta se razvija super!
What about RunR like runner which always runs ahead of competitors and is a Realiable unified (cause of rj45 and sfp+) network Router . Later on you can add S for switch or Air for AP
Where I come from, a "Sharpie" is a permanent marker pen. I have a feeling that's not the case for you however! I'm guessing something like a scalpel or a box-cutter?
Thought the same, but on reflection sharpie makes more sense as a scalpel and doesn't make much sense for a round-tipped felt so I like this new way better
Honestly, I'm very much inclined to open source the schematics, but somewhat afraid of copycats. That being said, with 2 M.2 ports you have some freedom plus I have no problems disclosing the parts that are used on the board so someone with sufficient skills can replace a faulty chip. No glue here so it should be fairly simple to disassemble.
Superb content and update Tomaz. In my native language, Albanian I can suggest some device names: Vala - means wave. Drita - means light, pronounced "Dreetah" Porta - means gateway, pronounced like its read
Hey Tomaž! Nice to see a neighbour doing some awesome stuff in networking! :) Anyway i was thinking about the naming and what do you think about "Edge Zero / Edge Zero Lite" ? Keep on pushing, you got this! Greets from Croatia :)
I am going to resist the urge to say “just hire me next time” 😂 With regards to FR4 alignment, talk to your PCB fab first!! You’re probably doing this because you read a very nice guide from Texas Instruments that recommends this, but your PCB fab might have also read it!! I’ve seen a project where someone did all high speed traces at 10º only to find out the pcb fab was also shifting the panel weave at 10º negating the whole concept.
Love the fact that SFP Small Form Factor Pluggable (who cumed up with that naming?😢) make galvanic isolation part of the connector module. toLookinto physical not monetary cost of RJ45 ... Ron!😊 11:27
From Norse mythology, I like Sliðr or Slidr, which is a river in Hel. Pronouncing it either Slither or Slider (depending on how you market it and spell it, and depending on locations) both works great for a fast router and sounds fun, plus a Mini Sliðr or Mini Slidr sounds fun :) (Heck, even a Lite Sliðr or Lite Slidr)
Plus, I like the geeky argument of how to pronounce it. Like Linux 😉Most of us know the "correct" way Linus Torvalds pronounces it, but many did not for ages.
Make sure you either avoid stacking microvias directly on top or near to buried vias, and follow the rules that your final pcb manufacturer specifies. If you don't then as the board heats (which it will around the processor & SFP+ ports) then the microvias will crack over time and the board will start to fail.
How about calling it “OpenRoute” since it’s essentially an open source router that users can customize? It also works well with any “lite” “plus” “mini” or “pro” that could be put behind it
Routers have at least 4ports 1Gbits maybe 1 at 2.5 or 10G 1 or 2 spf modules : I think one is enought but you can place a free slot for the future ? Wifi : upgradable module with 2,4G and 5G/6G You need to think about repairability: some tests pins Clean and open layout for future reparation : marked components on the board Maybe free slot for HDD/SDD (nvme or sata) ? For hardware a single chip with 2Go ram is enought ? the best is to keep all best stuff for existant routers and upgrade the bad things
If you build advanced router, why this router has such narrow input voltage range? In my opinion buck converter should be something like 8-60V range to cover most use cases including PoE. And size... Why would anyone care if it is 12x12cm or let's say 20x15cm?
Name Ideas: - Fount (Fount Router | Fount Mini): A source of a desirable quality or commodity, often used metaphorically to describe a rich source of information or inspiration. Why? Symbolic / one syllable and sounds luxurious when said right / pronunciation might be tough though. - Race-Lane or Route-Racer (Race-Lane Router): A designated path or track for racing, typically used in sports or competitions involving speed. Why? Calls to high end performance. For some reason I was also kind of drawn to ice terms: - Polynya (Polynya Router | Polynya Mini): A nonlinear-shaped opening in sea ice that may be open water or covered with new, thin ice. Why? Unique + Sounds sophisticated / scientific - Sastrugi (Sastrugi Router | Sastrugi Lite): Sharp, irregular ridges formed on a snow surface by wind erosion, aligned with the wind direction. Why? Unique + Sounds sophisticated / artistic - Shuga (Shuga Router | Shuga Mini | Shuga Lite): An accumulation of spongy white ice. Why? Unique / Memorable / Simple / Unmistakable - Skylight (Skylight Router | Skylight Mini): Large openings in sea ice that permit a submarine to surface. Why? It sounds pretty good Really excited for this, found your videos because I have been on a hunt for a product like this and looking at a bunch of options
Ultiroute could definitely work, it seems there is another company with the same product name, however they are in the PCB routing, and the last major release of their product seems to have been in late 2005...
Name: Rolter As for eMMC maybe consider having a user removable module just like Radaxa or Orange Pi have for their SBCs? So it is inexpensive to upgrade and or replace. As its a component that can wear out. Especially on a hacker oriented device.
I think you it should be a reference to something from Slovenian folklore. How about Palica, as in pastirska palica from the Shepard and the Dragon? A humble tool that, in the right hands, protects the community from evil. Also, a shepard's staff isn't a bad metaphor for what a router does when there's not a dragon to worry about.
Celerporta = "Quick Gate" in Latin? You could have the 'Celerporta Lux' too, for Light, though in English Lux can refer to luxurious.. but Celerporta Light or Celerporta Mini COULD work...
Call it: MONO MK1 Lite/PRO MONO Pontifex Lite /PRO ( bridge builder in latin) MONO ITER Lite /PRO ( path in latin) MONO Bivium Lite /PRO ( crossroad in latin)
How about Warp (or Warpy in case it's taken) as in space-time warp in relativity, it make sense due to the high speed of the device. I can already see the branding :) You can also use "light" as it makes a cool wordplay ahah (Warp light or Warp mini both sound good) and if in the future you'll go for a more powerfull/bigger version you can add "space" or "gravity" and keep the pun going.
Using Ultimate or Universal as a word is difficult, but what avbout combining *route, e.g. UniRoute (resembling "universal router") or NextRoute to imply being "the next level" in routing? just some food for thought 🤔
Honestly, this has not happened to me that often, so considering how transparent and ambitious you are, I think you really had bad luck. Thing is, services/consultants out there are always measured on 2 things: 1. price 2. trust problem with trust is: it takes time and it takes fantastic delivery from the service company. You invested your time and your money to offer them an opportunity to build trust. So you did your part. They obviously did not. Product development is crazy hard. With lost of things you cant control.
Hello from Texas! Thanks for sharing the progress of building new devices. I'd like to test that in future in my homelab. Regarding naming, what about Vrouter or viva router?
Regarding curved traces:
For high speed signals, signals with fast edges, higher frequencies, etc. you want a constant impedance from beginning to end of the trace. Part of that is maintaining constant trace width. If you made a 90 degree bend, the trace would be wider from the inside of the corner to the outside. 45 degree bends are better. Curved is pretty much ideal for maintaining constant trace width. It also allows for easy length matching of traces in Altium or other software.
Regarding FR4:
It’s inherently a less consistent and homogeneous material than materials made specifically to have a controlled dielectric constant like RT/duroid. FR4 is also anisotropic, meaning different properties in different directions. But you can’t be guaranteed anything about how it is manufactured, especially batch to batch. Even if your pcb printing house used a trusted FR4 supplier and orientated it the same way every time, you would have variation. Adding random direction changes will not ‘average out’ the differences, it will only move you away from the ideal constant trace impedance.
In short, worry about all the other things that will effect signal integrity before considering the direction of the traces.
Quick note: you need not constant impendance, but constant _wave_ impendance. Otherwise signal will be weakened(bad for receiveing end) and reflected(bad for sender, can potentially burn it).
Wave impendance is complex in both senses.
Bless my uni professor.
Automotive layout BOSCH engineer here.
PCB manufacturer even can add
impedance test coupon to guarantee
the impedance of a calculated trace width.
Speaking from 5 years of professional experience in developing metro DWDM fiberoptic equipment here.
The name of the game is always about reducing the price of production.
10 GbE lanes is going to cause more problems and be more expensive than anything else on that board.
A 12 layer PCB is an expensive headache. When dealing with 10 GHz, everything is either a transmitter or an antenna and it works in 3 dimensions.
Even following best practices of having grounded shielding layers above and below the 10 GHz lanes layer, and having grounded dampening lanes between each data lane, radio interference will still cause issues. Hard to debug issues.
My advice would be to opt for fewer layers and use a larger PCB instead. Most importantly, keep anything 10 GHz away from the rest of the circuitry as far as possible.
Reduce your design to maximum 4 PCB layers. (Cisco, Alcatel Lucent, Infinera, etc, rarely goes higher than that for very good reasons.)
By all means make the analog signal as nice as possible by following the above mentioned design rules, but always consider if you can make your design cheaper by slapping a ton of FEC (forward error correction) on your lanes instead. Even adding extra lanes purely for FEC is often cheaper than using expensive components and cheaper than adding more PCB layers to achieve better analog signals.
That's how the big boys do it. Cheap components, shit design full of compromises and lots radio interference, and then go captain overboard with FEC. The end user will never know the difference and it will achieve the same results at a lower cost.
@@unicornengineer Ehhh, I liked the other two comments, but this was severely condescending. I hope he chooses to go for better than their standards, otherwise the product he's trying to make is worthless for it to be run of the mill like "How the big boys do it." Pass on this "Unicorn", heavy pass.
@@steezegod2768I'm curious, what exactly is it that you find so offensive?
Apologies if I bruised your feelings, but industry standard practices are there to make better products.
Heavy forward error correction has the added advantage of making the device resistant to noisy radio environments so the end product actually ends up being of perceived higher quality.
And as for keeping costs down, that's just a question of choices. Do you want to build a device for 50 wealthy enthusiasts or for millions of real world users.
Fortunately the builders are free to choose. Everyone can have an opinion, but in the end, engineering is not a democracy.
Call it Zaman. Zaman mini, zaman 10G, zaman ultra. Ticks all the boxes. Unique, easy to remember and easy to pronounce.
I second that
T(z)aman :D
Zalman Tech Co.: Objection! 😅
How about the " Urouter"
That's a surname, good luck when someone else also uses their surname for a product..
Awesome work Tomaz! thanks for the update
Being Greek let me suggest some greek words for the naming, which are inspired by the Cloud Native world (Istio, Kubernetes, Kiali etc)
1. Pylon (Πύλων - "Gateway" or "Portal") - suggests a passage or gateway within a network. (I like this a lot)
2. Dromos (Δρόμος - "Path" or "Route") - suggests routing paths in networking.
3. Kentro (Κέντρο - "Center" or "Hub") - suggests a central point in a network.
4. Synapse (Σύναψη - "Connection" or "Link") - suggests connectivity in networks .
5. Helio / Ilios (Ήλιος - "Sun") - suggests photon light speed in networking .
6. Sima (Σήμα - "Signal") - suggests data signals or communication.
7. Kyma (Κύμα - "Wave") - suggests waves of data streams passing through the router.
8. Nefos (Νεφός - "Cloud") - suggests cloud-based networking.
Pylon seems awesome, assuming no one else is using it :D
Yeap. That's my favorite also.
I'd definitely go for a Pylon Mini! 😊
Please do not choose Nefos as neighbor Hungarian the Finn Fing app it's enough with the fecal reference 😅
really liking both Pylon and Dromos, great suggestions overall tbh
Ah! So in Greek.... name it "WindexDromos!" Opa! There you have it! 😎
This is good news. Keeping a firewall/router security patched is important, and getting a small run from a small company that might not be around in 2year, 5year 10year, would be an issue if not open source. Not that I wish bad, but life and reality are much different from what we wish.
This is why the compute module approach has become so popular, the main ASIC BGA is typically the only hard PCB to design so using a reference one saves a lot of time on development.
I just noticed that the CR2032 Holder you have in 14:47 is probably also a Würth Electronic part.
Be careful, the pins are in the wrong order on the connector (from the Würth parts library on their website).
Depending on what you use it for, it might get very expensive to put -3V in a system.
The issue is already reported to Würth, they just have not fixed it afaik
I wasn't aware of this, will report to Aljaz. Thanks!
FYI, Portal would have been a terrible name, as searching "Portal router" or "Portal networking" brings up results relating to the video game. Whatever you pick, make sure that it's a unique enough search term when combined with networking phrases.
One time I found hotel called "Address" in local language. Very creative, simple design and good service. But I'm able to find only via map application because of that name...
19:43 I have a fun experience with this at my previous company … During a first generation prototype phase for a high end product, some lines were switched to the DDR4 ram chips. The entire run of 10 prototypes had bom in the range of 3 to 5 thousand euros each with 16 layer PCBs, FPGA, application class CPU, high end DAC etc… we really couldn’t afford to throw away what we had, so we went the route of trying to fix them. In the end, we had a company remove the CPUs and while remounting new CPUs, insulate the problem balls with kapton tape and micro-solder some leads to fix the routing.
When we got them back, 9 out of 10 boards were operational and we managed to do the bring up on them! It was so tense but a very good learning experience in the end.
Oh, wow thank for that idea! I mean our boards are nowhere near that price regarding BOM, but it's a neat trick!
I've had many issues sourcing specialized RJ45 connectors with pin-outs that match something that was discontinued. If you're having issues with getting them now, you may want to do some layout and routing on a similar board that flips the pins 180 degrees or has some other common pin-out in case they discontinue it or there's a supply crunch like during the pandemic.
Please make sure device will be compatible with SFP ONUs, because in majority of cases at home you will likely see GPON or EPON. Those SFP ONUs heat up considerably and can overheat some components placed nearby SFP ports, especially in a small package router like this. It was a problem with Mikrotik HEx S I got. And having at least one PoE out would be great.
This is a very good point!
Absolutely on my "has to support" list. I'm also a GPON user.
Indeed that is absolutely 100% mandatory that have become compatible with saplans for all the fiber that's being rolled out without that it makes the Box completely useless
If needs heatsinks on top of the SFP+ cages.
I'm afraid your mechanical problems are not over. Leaving such a large overhang for connectors which are going to be ab-used by users, with folks pulling on the cable as they stumble over it, yanking usb sticks with excessive force, is surely going to bend pcb and cause ceramic caps to crack (DFM rule number 1 - don't place MLCCs near mounting holes and connectors, where they will experience maximum mechanical stress).
I named my OPNsense router "Senkaimon"
In Japanese culture, Senkaimon () refers to a dimensional gateway or portal that allows Soul Reapers (Shinigami) to travel between the Soul Society and the Human World.
14:00 I am getting flashbacks at what is happening to motherboards. You know how they used to have 8 segment displays to tell you stuff and now you are happy if you get at least some LEDs?
You have an entire I2C driver, just to drive a single LED, instead of adding, I don't know, an OLED display? What the actual frick?
It doesn't even have an onboard nuclear power reactor for when the power goes out, what the actual frick?
I mean attaching a whole ass oled display is kinda of a waste especially if they send it to consumers since they will barely use it.
But I think for troubleshooting / development they could definitely expose 4 pins so that they can attach an I2C 7-segment display to it.
That might be a bit easier to read, more cost effective and lower power usage than an o-led display.
Pathfinder
That is kind of clever, after all that is what a Router does 😅
+1
+1
Pathfinder is perfect. I _want_ to have a device called pathfinder in my network
+1
Hestia. Is the Greek goddess that connects the people. She was actually the goddess of home, but her name means fireside.
In Ancient Greece, the fireside was considered the center of the house, where everyone gathered. It was believed that Hestia’s presence at the fireside fostered a sense of unity and community among the people, ensuring the vitality and warmth of the home.
Hestya ??
AWESOME NESSS !! You are working so hard on this !!
Routy McRouterface?
I still find it very sad to see that you guys didn’t think about PoE for powering the appliance. There are so many applications where this could be a deal breaker.
Why no Poe?? Did they give any reason? It seems obvious for a device like this. I'm guessing they're afraid of losing the PCB real estate?
@ that Not that much Space for that Kind of Feature. So i don’t get it.
Instead of 1gb ram chips for the lower end version, why not always use the 2gb chips. That way there will be empty pads which could be soldered on/upgraded later if the user wanted to go through with that
as far as I know with my radio course - everything is antenna, especially not terminated pads in memory
Also, here used *specifically* ECC functionality, which requires 4+1 memory chips (although 8+1 exists)
No soldering socket the ram always sucking it soldering like the rest of the board is just idiotic for the tiny pennies you save
Thank you for what you and your team does here with the router project.
LokaRouter: Place, center, heart of the network with slovenian wording. Greeting from Hungary and keep go on. You won me as a custumer! :-)
This is a good one and references where it's come from. Rolls off tongue too.
Lots of pretty good news around! Congratulations to the milestone, and to the wedding! Both yours which is going on strong, and the new one :)
Hello Tomaž! For the product name, how about "GigaTier". The device is capable of processing Gigabits of data per second, so it's clearly a "Giga-tier" device. Also, since the "Giga" name suggests a performance capability, then the "pro", "lite", or "mini" sub-products would also directly relate to the device forwarding performance. As with most enterprise network gear, we never use actual product names, but rather their abbreviations, so this would result in "GTpro", "GTlite", or "GTmini", or to stylize it a bit, "GT.pro", "GT.lite", or "GT.mini".
Keep fighting the good fight and I cannot wait to see your final version! Greets from Ireland!
got to be a "Pathfinder" then the follow up "Pathfinder Lite" simply because wikipedia says "a pathfinder is a specialized soldier inserted or dropped into place in order to set up and operate drop zones, pickup zones"
Pathfinder is not a good I need for something like this especially with your connotation disorders my dad was sister works for part of his military career is a tunnel rat Pathfinder and that's a hell lot more important than any router (he went on from that start to the GBs and would have been Deltas or had he not retired from the mil at that point
Anyhow as for the box pathfinder wouldn't be right for the connotation regardless since the router is more of the in charge braking orders
So if I was to use a mil term "Gunnery Sgt" would be more appropriate with the mentalmoic of the infamous Hardman from FMJ. Funny my 1st drill sgt reminded me of him in several ways.. only with a wicked sense of humor picking on us flybois lol
Great to see the progress and that you are trying to use free software instead of the proprietary NXP software.
Looking forward to the next update!
Some names:
* Packet Warper
* WANSlinger
* JellyPacket
* piconet
* nanostream
* packet boi
* YeetRouter
lel
Will there be a 1u 19" rack option?
Yep!
@tomazzaman very good!!!
Great to see people working on this. With the new faster internet connections, there is a lack of good quality and affordable home routers. It's very easy to get 10gbit connections now, but the router options are almost zero.
Shouldn't you have a separate ground plane for the RJ45 connector's?
Seeing as the router will primarily be used with SFP ports and optical transceivers, calling it the Photon router could work. "Light Photon" or "Photon Light" is even a nice little play on words for the mini version!
Curved Traces:
For high-speed signals, keeping impedance consistent is critical. Sharp 90° bends can cause impedance issues because the trace widens at the corner.
45° bends are better than 90° because they reduce impedance changes, but curved traces are ideal for maintaining a constant width and impedance.
Curved traces also make it easier to match trace lengths, which is important for high-speed designs.
FR4 Material:
FR4 isn’t as consistent as materials like Rogers RT/duroid, which are designed for controlled dielectric properties.
FR4 can vary in quality between batches and has different properties depending on the direction, making it less predictable for high-frequency designs.
Random trace directions won’t "average out" these variations and can actually worsen impedance consistency.
Key Takeaway:
Focus on big factors like proper routing, ground planes, and reducing crosstalk before worrying about trace direction. If your design is very high-speed, consider using curved traces and upgrading to better materials for more consistent performance.
Periti - Slovenian synonym for usmerjati, while having a similar pronunciation in english to parity (as a nod to data integrity)
I suggest it is called 'Ethernal' as a portmanteau of 'Eternal' and 'Ethernet'.
12 layers for this project is really insane. 6 layers or hardly 8 layers are enough for this sort of design. You dont need dedicated power plane layer. Instead I would used those as GND or signal layer with each signal layer attached to adjacent GND plane.
DC-DC converters are placed here and there in the board. they should have been placed in one area as they are the source of noise in the design. in case metal shielding is needed it is easier to cover all switching circuitry using one or two shield.
For the name my proposal will be "Lane Master"
they could also save space if they used a few PMICs that had like 4 synchronous bucks in them als i noticed some tantalum s and electrolytic s , might not need them if you go higher frequency SMPS
Regarding layer count i am very courious that is the actual area used on each layer , the MPU is sort of fine pitch but not that large also it is a HDI stackup and that is the expensive part
add 2 layers or make it HDI not both
BUT like he said they sort of did this themselves in a rush so 12 may be to make it in time and them rev 2 is well thought and at 8-10 layers
maybe there is a video and we can have a few glimpses and judge then better
When it comes to PCB design for high-speed (frequency) boards, you want to create separate power planes and distribute them throughout the layers of the board with ground planes nearby. This ensures you don’t have long return paths or create large inductive loops. Routing signals and power on the same layers, or adjacent layers, without separation of a ground plane is a recipe for disaster. These boards need to pass EMI tests and without those considerations, they never will. Besides the testing, that EMI will also affect signal quality. If you’re interested in learning more about advanced PCB design considerations, there are some great videos by Rick Hartley from Altium!
I'm really looking forward to the final product, sounds like it's going to be great as you are hard working and also care for little details :)
Isn't it obvious? Call it the Ž-router! I love the Ž. Even swearing has become more efficient, like "This is bullžit!". It saves a whole letter!
fyi there is an unvoiced version - Š. sh basically
What about Matrixloom Ultra, managind the loom of traffic inside of the Internet (referred to as Matrix here)?
I really hope the body will be made out of steel and not resin, we do need to isolate the router from outside signalling and use it as a heatsink to lower the heat generated by the board.
Call it Router McRout.
Fernando also a pretty solid choice.
Dravalink, SavaSync, SočaStream. Each of these a tribute to rivers in Slovenia, also symbolic as rivers and data flow relate with strength, steady flow and broad connections. Keep up the great work!
č is very non international letter, would avoid that
Since this is a critial security device there should be a way to know if the access doors for M.2 have been opened. Sounds paranoid but could be very helpful if deployed remotly.
"Routy" could be a cool name for its small footprint
Routy McRoutface
Everytime i see your videos i wish i had more knowledge on this stuff.. I imagine working with you is fantastic and would apply straight away.
Same.
So I started with Solid Edge. Man oh man is it hard ot make even a pc case according to ATX specs.
Also have KiCad installed, made a numpad. I think. Maybe. I hope. And that took 4 weeks.
I kind of wnated something like this but it will never happen. Just 4×2.5Gb ports with poe for access points and x86 and the access points too. Hard to find, Soekris gave up years ago, PcEngines will not be designing a replacement.
Regarding the RBG LED, did you consider switching it out to a RGBW one? The dedicated white diode makes a huge difference.
Some suggestions for the name below. Sorry, it's a lot :p
BRAMA - Polish word meaning "gateway/portal" (i think)
ELARA. - Jupiter sattelite
AURA - Simple, like radiance
NEXORA - Modern combo with "nexus" (Latin for connection)
ATLAS - From Greek mythology
OMERON - Inspired by "omni" (Latin for "all")
AETHER - Greek for sky
MOC - Polish for "power"
VOLTA - Inspired by "power" as well
NOVA - Something like innovation
VELA - from constellation names
LYRA - from constellation names
Some gems in there! Thanks!
from my point of view Aura, Atlas, Omeron, Aether, Volta and Nova are not usable.
Why is the USB-C PD input 20V? Are you expecting it to consume more than 45W? Because any PD device up to 15W should use 5V, up to 27W should use 9V, up and up to 45W should use 15V. It is only *after* 45W that you are supposed to ask for 20V!
I don't remember this being discussed: have you considered SO-DIMM sticks instead of soldered RAM?
Also, naming: Zaman
Zaman Lite (1G + 16G)
Zaman (2G + 32G)
Zaman Pro (4G + 64G)
Zaman FE (Same as Pro with extra goodies?)
Uto, Uuro, Yuto
these felt like really cool router/model names :D
As far as I looked, there is also no similar brand/models that exist in the networking space.
I liked Yuto
How do you expect this to stack up against the new Alta Labs Route 10?
How about "The Ultomaž Router" - a play on ultimate and recognising the original inspiration?
Ultomaž Mini / Ultomaž Lite should work too, which we will all just refer to as the mini-tomaž :D
Hahah, thank you, but I'd like to avoid attaching my personal info to the brand or model. Just feels too self-centered to me.
@@tomazzaman Of course the risk with calling anything "Ultimate" or "Final" is that just after you do, you realise you made a mistake somewhere and have to build another one :D
How about "The Slovenian Packet Slinger" or "Slovenian Packet Pusher"? :)
My suggestion is "Elding". It is icelandic for lightning, so it is synonymous with speed :)
Those metallic mounting holes close to the DDR and in between the path between RJ45 and transformer scream EMC issues
Soldered down firmware. Does this have a recovery option if someone oops's it?
Also some suggestions:
Make an option for rack mount
OLED display
Status led's to the front please, no one looks at the back of the rack (its a mess) - you can use a lightpipe to show it anywhere you want
How about Netzwerkverbindungsgerät NVG for short
At @10:46 Bravo Tomaž! 🥳 Looking forward to the promised separate video! I will consider the name and if suggestions come to mind, reply again. Thank you for the update.
HitroVarno 😎 🎉
Zenith or Zenith 1 could be the a good choice. It flows well with more descriptive names at the end like Zenith 1: The Ultimate Router. Zenith and '1' emphasize its ultimate status. It would work well for other variations Zenith 1 Mini, Zenith 1 Max, etc
make sure the wan SFP can support 2.5gbps as most GPON, XGS-PON ONUs are 2.5gbps
For the name, call it RoZa or ToZa router :)
Looking forward to see that product taking off, can kinda see clearly your excitement and enthusiasm too :)
Odlično, potek projekta se razvija super!
What about RunR like runner which always runs ahead of competitors and is a Realiable unified (cause of rj45 and sfp+) network Router . Later on you can add S for switch or Air for AP
Weel done for the open source results! Can't wait for the video
Where I come from, a "Sharpie" is a permanent marker pen. I have a feeling that's not the case for you however! I'm guessing something like a scalpel or a box-cutter?
Thought the same, but on reflection sharpie makes more sense as a scalpel and doesn't make much sense for a round-tipped felt so I like this new way better
Oh yes, not a sharpie, the word I meant to use was exacto.
I'm not an electronic engineer or a networking person but I love these videos and this project.
If you need to save more space, you can get ethernet connectors with the magnetics built in.
What are the stands on repairability and upgradability at this point?
Honestly, I'm very much inclined to open source the schematics, but somewhat afraid of copycats. That being said, with 2 M.2 ports you have some freedom plus I have no problems disclosing the parts that are used on the board so someone with sufficient skills can replace a faulty chip. No glue here so it should be fairly simple to disassemble.
Superb content and update Tomaz. In my native language, Albanian I can suggest some device names:
Vala - means wave.
Drita - means light, pronounced "Dreetah"
Porta - means gateway, pronounced like its read
Hey Tomaž! Nice to see a neighbour doing some awesome stuff in networking! :) Anyway i was thinking about the naming and what do you think about "Edge Zero / Edge Zero Lite" ? Keep on pushing, you got this! Greets from Croatia :)
I am going to resist the urge to say “just hire me next time” 😂
With regards to FR4 alignment, talk to your PCB fab first!! You’re probably doing this because you read a very nice guide from Texas Instruments that recommends this, but your PCB fab might have also read it!!
I’ve seen a project where someone did all high speed traces at 10º only to find out the pcb fab was also shifting the panel weave at 10º negating the whole concept.
Love the fact that SFP Small Form Factor Pluggable (who cumed up with that naming?😢) make galvanic isolation part of the connector module. toLookinto physical not monetary cost of RJ45 ... Ron!😊 11:27
From Norse mythology, I like Sliðr or Slidr, which is a river in Hel. Pronouncing it either Slither or Slider (depending on how you market it and spell it, and depending on locations) both works great for a fast router and sounds fun, plus a Mini Sliðr or Mini Slidr sounds fun :) (Heck, even a Lite Sliðr or Lite Slidr)
Plus, I like the geeky argument of how to pronounce it. Like Linux 😉Most of us know the "correct" way Linus Torvalds pronounces it, but many did not for ages.
Humble name suggestion: "The Packet"
Make sure you either avoid stacking microvias directly on top or near to buried vias, and follow the rules that your final pcb manufacturer specifies.
If you don't then as the board heats (which it will around the processor & SFP+ ports) then the microvias will crack over time and the board will start to fail.
Absolutely, design rules we've set are quite strict and will report anything that manufacturer suggests fixing in the next update!
Mate u need to consider the signal interference and I dun think the usb port should put close to LAN ports
Has there been any consideration to high availability?
For now, just in terms of having enough ports to be able to have a backup WAN, but nothing more concrete yet.
Mono ports and Mono ports light.. Or Mono port maybe?
How about calling it “OpenRoute” since it’s essentially an open source router that users can customize? It also works well with any “lite” “plus” “mini” or “pro” that could be put behind it
Routers have at least 4ports 1Gbits maybe 1 at 2.5 or 10G
1 or 2 spf modules : I think one is enought but you can place a free slot for the future ?
Wifi : upgradable module with 2,4G and 5G/6G
You need to think about repairability: some tests pins
Clean and open layout for future reparation : marked components on the board
Maybe free slot for HDD/SDD (nvme or sata) ?
For hardware a single chip with 2Go ram is enought ?
the best is to keep all best stuff for existant routers and upgrade the bad things
Iterpod. Iter is latin for Route and pod on the end for the modern cool factor and works with mini/light on the end
Really interesting. Thank you for this journey.
Will this router take in WWAN cards and have a nano-sim slot? or at least eSIM? or both? (WWAN cards are keyd differently than WLAN cards)
If you build advanced router, why this router has such narrow input voltage range? In my opinion buck converter should be something like 8-60V range to cover most use cases including PoE.
And size... Why would anyone care if it is 12x12cm or let's say 20x15cm?
So, how much power did the Open Source Purist(tm) version require? (vs. the hardware routing engine.)
No difference. Video about just that next week.
Name Ideas:
- Fount (Fount Router | Fount Mini): A source of a desirable quality or commodity, often used metaphorically to describe a rich source of information or inspiration. Why? Symbolic / one syllable and sounds luxurious when said right / pronunciation might be tough though.
- Race-Lane or Route-Racer (Race-Lane Router): A designated path or track for racing, typically used in sports or competitions involving speed. Why? Calls to high end performance.
For some reason I was also kind of drawn to ice terms:
- Polynya (Polynya Router | Polynya Mini): A nonlinear-shaped opening in sea ice that may be open water or covered with new, thin ice. Why? Unique + Sounds sophisticated / scientific
- Sastrugi (Sastrugi Router | Sastrugi Lite): Sharp, irregular ridges formed on a snow surface by wind erosion, aligned with the wind direction. Why? Unique + Sounds sophisticated / artistic
- Shuga (Shuga Router | Shuga Mini | Shuga Lite): An accumulation of spongy white ice. Why? Unique / Memorable / Simple / Unmistakable
- Skylight (Skylight Router | Skylight Mini): Large openings in sea ice that permit a submarine to surface. Why? It sounds pretty good
Really excited for this, found your videos because I have been on a hunt for a product like this and looking at a bunch of options
Ultiroute could definitely work, it seems there is another company with the same product name, however they are in the PCB routing, and the last major release of their product seems to have been in late 2005...
How about aRJay45 like the connector. It has a personal touch
Name: Rolter
As for eMMC maybe consider having a user removable module just like Radaxa or Orange Pi have for their SBCs? So it is inexpensive to upgrade and or replace. As its a component that can wear out. Especially on a hacker oriented device.
RoutSI - a small, cute little router from Slovenija 😊
I think you it should be a reference to something from Slovenian folklore. How about Palica, as in pastirska palica from the Shepard and the Dragon? A humble tool that, in the right hands, protects the community from evil.
Also, a shepard's staff isn't a bad metaphor for what a router does when there's not a dragon to worry about.
can i get fiber optic ethernet cable lan in my router!!?
My Suggestion for the Name is:
ZRouter
Z stands for your lastname.
I think it’s short and sounds good when you say it.
This is a home labers router right?
HLR
HLR Max
HLR Xtreme
HLR-10G
HLR Nexus
HLR Core
HLR Fusion
Simple and effective.
call it Prehod, it's slovenian for Gateway
Call it.. Bit Blaster. It sounds like it will be quite the device once done, so a fitting name!
Do strong magnets and springs not also create electrical or RF problems?
Nope, as long as their polarity doesn't change. Take iPad for example, it has a ton of them, still works fine.
I know that the case will act as a heat sink, BUT... I would absolutely love to see a (maybe just partially) clear case for it.
Coming!
Celerporta = "Quick Gate" in Latin? You could have the 'Celerporta Lux' too, for Light, though in English Lux can refer to luxurious.. but Celerporta Light or Celerporta Mini COULD work...
Call it:
MONO MK1 Lite/PRO
MONO Pontifex Lite /PRO ( bridge builder in latin)
MONO ITER Lite /PRO ( path in latin)
MONO Bivium Lite /PRO ( crossroad in latin)
How about Warp (or Warpy in case it's taken) as in space-time warp in relativity, it make sense due to the high speed of the device.
I can already see the branding :)
You can also use "light" as it makes a cool wordplay ahah (Warp light or Warp mini both sound good)
and if in the future you'll go for a more powerfull/bigger version you can add "space" or "gravity" and keep the pun going.
Using Ultimate or Universal as a word is difficult, but what avbout combining *route, e.g. UniRoute (resembling "universal router") or NextRoute to imply being "the next level" in routing? just some food for thought 🤔
"Uni" sounds very close to unifi
Honestly, this has not happened to me that often, so considering how transparent and ambitious you are, I think you really had bad luck.
Thing is, services/consultants out there are always measured on 2 things:
1. price
2. trust
problem with trust is: it takes time and it takes fantastic delivery from the service company. You invested your time and your money to offer them an opportunity to build trust. So you did your part. They obviously did not.
Product development is crazy hard. With lost of things you cant control.
Hello from Texas!
Thanks for sharing the progress of building new devices. I'd like to test that in future in my homelab.
Regarding naming, what about Vrouter or viva router?
As well as Node, Mini Node
BRAND NAME IDEA:
u L - t e a m m a t e
pronounce close to ULTIMATE
u - micro; L - link; teammate is teammate