As beloved as Steam is as a digital platform and launcher, make no mistake, you pretty much own or have full autonomy of access over none of those games. The more laws can push towards normalizing GOG's model of digital ownership and autonomy over your digital purchases, the safer a digital future can feel for consumers. PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/yong_yea TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@yongyea TOP PATRONS [BIG BOSS] - Devon B [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Phil [PRETTY LEGENDARY] - azalea
Hmmm but I can copy game folders like Vampire Survivors out and send the whole folder to my friends. How would you speak about that? (edit: Vampire Survivors is a game sold on Steam for 4.99 USD. Because of the sheer small size of the game client, we were able to copy the whole folder into a CD and sell it for around 10 USD in street stalls in my country. The reception wasn't that good tho.)
prices should reflect distance from retail release. the further from the release date the cheaper it becomes. none of these been out 2-10 years and full retail price.
@@Slitheringpeanut ya Count's found that the eula can't enforce work around to program you have purchased. That was part of the right to repair a thing
I can already imagine a new "I'm aware I am purchasing a license and not being granted ownership of the product" tick box next to all of the other agreements on websites like cookies and ToS. It's an illusion of choice that's just an ultimatum by any other name.
They just say you didn't read the terms and conditions which state you don't own it and only hold a licences to use it so good luck there At best you might get a refund but thats at best
Addressing the replies here.. contrary to popular belief, just because a company puts something in their terms and conditions does not mean it will hold water in court, even if you signed it. That is not how contract law works.
@@forwarduntodawn1000 Terms and conditions don't overwrite laws. Like for instance companies can't just say "We own you if you agree to this contract" even if you did sign it, it's an unlawful contract.
That won't happen. They will take your money, and leave with you nothing. Buy from GOG, or buy Physical on consoles, if you don't want these greedy companies to have full control over your digital library.
@@watson1212 Well unless u was ordering the disc from Netflix. Even tho it's rented, there was no late fees. So lot of people would just keep the disc
what is even, 'full price'? Is that even defined anywhere? After six months they tend to drop a lot anyway... there's a clue. But you know, everyone FOMO go pays... :D
You’re damn right they are^^ Also please anyone that has a “Holier than thou mentality” On certain pirating sites, you ruin it all for us folk that were actually brought up correctly. Self evaluate yourself in the mirror and try acting like an actual adult for once. You ruin it for the majority of us.😂 😂
Sorry to bother boss but what are some good vids to learn how to pirate? I've been seeing droves of people telling me it's just the best option and that I should but I have no idea where to get started and you seem like you know. Any recs would be greatly appreciated ^^
@@easydayez Couldn't agree more, & please DO NOT SHARE PIRATING SITES OPENLY ON THE INTERNET. I shouldn't even have to state this. But frankly there are an incredible amount of incapable folk compared to capable. No this wasn’t aimed at you. Easy.
I love it. I’ve supported GOG for years due to their policy on giving people actual digital ownership. My only complaint is that their library doesn’t even touch the numbers that Steam gets, so I usually end up buying games off GOG when I have the option to. Hopefully this news gets more developers to go over to GOG. If it were up to me, I’d buy 100% of my games off them.
ya. I do wish people would acknowledge the fact that GOG exist...so many people keep acting like the only options that isnt steam is EGS... I dont use GoG too much but I do have a fair handful of games on it all the same and it is very much my fall back if I ever need it.
I wish developers would stop treating GOG as this second-class citizen. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, fucking hell, it's irritating for no good reason.
Same here, I rarely buy from Steam these days. Sadly GOG is a small market and companies have little reason to release a game DRM free on day one if that means potential loss of sales. The blame is fully on consumer for not demanding all games to be DRM free, but hopefully this makes people think twice.
@@arnox4554 The reason why publishers avoid platforms like GOG is because: a) You can literally copy game files and distribute them. If you buy the new Silent Hill 2 Remake on GOG (just pretend it's available there for arguments sake) what's stopping you from passing that onto a friend who wants the game? Zero DRM makes publishers avoid putting their biggest new games on GOG, which is why big hitters like Konami and Capcom only allow classic games from 20+ years ago to sell on there. b) Lack of control. Companies like Capcom apply here, who want to keep an eye on things using Denuvo technology. Without DRM, they can't make sure you aren't modding games like RE2 remake. I understand why DRM exists, but I feel like devs go too far with certain things. The online checks are one thing, but things like Denuvo, dictating whether or not people can mod a game, and straight up yoinking games out of people's libraries is an over reach that compromises my understanding, and makes me root for companies like GOG to have an uprising.
The people that pirate have been doing it since day one, with physical disks these are not noble people these are scammers killing small dev studios, and making gaming in general poor.
@@gloomyvale3671I always pirate from these AAA studios because I don't own the copy I bought like wtf?? And yeah I never pirate from indie devs lol I buy their games.
The problem isn't coming from Valve. It's the publisher. If you buy any CDPR games on Steam, you can just directly copy paste the entire game folder to wherever you want and run the game without Steam exists nor any issue. This is the greedy publisher issue.
@@SuperEarther I don't think Valve could do that. Many games that are released on Steam just abscent from GOG. It's the publisher decide what platform they release their games. Such as Epic, it make Alan Wake 2 excusive on Epic Games on PC, ridiculous.
It's both, you can buy games on gog itch and humble and download and play them forever even if they have DRM. In most cases valve can at any time tell you that you can't play a game anymore.
The future??? Have you ever heard of MMORPGs? You know the games that you can buy but still have to pay a subscription to have access to them. None of this is new.
You see it more clearly than most. That's where we're headed too. They're going lean heavy in the "Network Subscription" direction. Sony will be the first to try.
Yup that's why piracy is now completely normalized to casuals. Iv heard kid's talking about his dad getting him a fire stick with emulators on it like last week.
@@Penguin-qp2wk Yes but that's not nearly the same thing. It's impossible to run an MMO without customers paying for it to some degree. Even free MMOs run off expensive digital purchases. Running an MMO is expensive, and money needs to come from somewhere in a game where you agree to be always online. Those are specific games that have always been known to have paid access. That is not the same a company forcing you to pay perpetually to access a single player game. That is completely ridiculous, and that is the main future we don't want.
Deleting stuff from users' libraries should be punishable in the same way that pirateing games is. And borking people's games (e.g. by shutting down services and not patching the game) should be considered vandalism of people's property!
หลายเดือนก่อน +88
It's sad that GOG is the best option and then there is piracy. These two options are the best.
I mean there's itch... and then there are various developers who sell their software licenses directly from their own websites... Basically the best option is - don't be a fool.
That won't fly in Europe where the laws have passed that require these games to function and be accessible in perpetuity. We can only hope it comes to the US.
@@warbossgegguz679 Apple did it, they litterally desgined 2 sepreate IOS versions they supported, sideloading enabled and alternative app store enabled IOS for Europe and the rest of the world gets normal IOS
This just, isn't true What your thinking of is the stop killing games initiative, which EU lawmakers haven't even commented on yet There has been 0 discussion in the EU about this
Imagine a world where every digital purchase store in existence is legally forced to change the "Buy" button to the "Rent" button. That will hurt sales quite a bit broadly across all services. This "Could" also create consumer outrage which can cause a downward pressure on price. NOBODY wants to pay full retail price for "Rentals".
Or force them to admit that you do own it and keep it available, before the market falls apart and everyone goes back to physical products that have to work on day one as advertised.
Its not a rental, you are buying a license. You think you are buying a game... but you are not. You never did. Even 40 years ago buying games was the same as today, its a license. They can revoke the license at any time. People like physical DRM free copies because they can play it even if the license is revoked. Technically that would still be illegal and the same as pirating if the license was revoked for any reason.
if you look closely, steam is already set for this. they have a "pay" button.. could mean anything.. laws that just change names of buttons do nothing for us.. there must be a law that forces stores to provide you a way to install and use the media you payed for without internet access. that would be precise and effective. but for that to happen, the ppl who actually understand digital media must fill positions within the goverment and law system.. these ppl are all from the last gens right now and have no clue what they are deciding over..
@@AyaWetts 9:57 this part is for you. No, it's not like 40 years ago. As long as you have a working console, and the disc or cartridge is still readable, the game is playable forever. Games on an account do not have that luxury. They can disappear from your list whenever the developers or publishers feel like. Even physical media nowadays are made to check if the game is still allowed to be played. And by nowadays I mean that started to happen around or after 360 and ps3 era.
Just renewed my GOG account, and BOUGHT a ton of games since they are having an awesome sale. Got a lot of classics for almost nothing and some new stuff too. Then downloaded all the offline installers and rejoiced with the forgotten feeling of actually owning my sh*t.
Basically it turns games as goods into games as a service - subscriptions, cloud only - micro transactions, loot boxes etc... - in game advertisements, marketing
It didn't tank it either. What damaged their stock was bad game releases. Simply because you never owned any of the games you ever bought. Not a single one. It's always been 'limited licenses'.
Is this a reference to that one quote from a Ubisoft guy saying consumers should get used to not owning their games? Because if so congratulations you read a headline, moved on, and let that live in your head. From that same interview: "The point is not to force users to go down one route or another," he explains. "We offer purchase, we offer subscription, and it's the gamer's preference that is important here. We are seeing some people who buy choosing to subscribe now, but it all works". And he was also directly making a comparison between how people have come to widely accept Music and Movie streaming/subs. "One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen in games" Y'all love to read 1 quote without context that riles you up because "Ubisoft bad" and then refuse to look any further into it. It's embarrassing
@RedSpy47 ok ubishill, I'm gonna counterargumement with that a subscription on a rental or "buying to own"... a rental... isn't different. We pay a fee to not have a permanent copy, we do not own our cds, we do not own our dvds, and we do not own our games. It's still a sht take even with context, it's why nobody cares. There is no better point made, if you cut the crap and say it in plain speech, we'd still be upset. You typed corporate speak to convince us we were hasty lol
I think Valve assumed that the publishers would still let people play the games, even without Steam. Steam is just the store and launcher, and clearly they don't have the ability to make publishers sell full access if they don't want to do it.
yeah valve said they did have a killswitch idea incase shit hit the fan. people speculate we get an ''emulator'' of sorts that just runs the games all the same. but i highly doubt valve will shut down. like ever. they are so succesfull. the only downside to steam is not being able to play games without internet after a week or so.
And Netflix said that you AND your family could watch from anywhere. How funny that that option changed despite getting more members added to streaming.
"Since we are licensing games now instead of purchasing". one of the top comments... This is why they put the label there, because unless you buy something like a Steam deck, its always been a digital license.
you have never owned them, and have never paid full price. If you actually bought a game you'd pay millions and be allowed to copy and sell licenses for it yourself. They still own the game, they just sell you licenses to use it... this is not new with digital stores, its been like this decades
@@AyaWetts I direct your attention to the used game market. Copies of games that exist independently of their publisher. This didn't stop decades ago; it exists right now. Would it be more expensive for developers to produce such physical media, prohibitively so for most indies? Yes. Yet here we are, watching the pendulum swing back towards physical ownership. DRM can be cracked. Day one DLC can be copied and distributed. Ownership doesn't require millions, only honest transactions. GOG has proven that. Steam will have to toe the line or get knocked flat.
"Full price" is set by the cost it takes to publish and expected revenue, steam takes a 30% cut of sales because they have market dominance and they can. If you sell there you can't sell much cheaper elsewhere. People only buy games when there's a steam sale, so to stay in business studios have to price like triple the amount you would have needed because after taxes you're taking home a fraction of the money your game is making.
@@AyaWetts You can buy games on itch humble and gog for the same price and own them and play them forever. The difference is valve can at any time tell you that you can't play the game anymore.
GOG definitely deserves it’a praise for this recent event. I also would agree that if GOG’s success can be more widespread, then maybe more if not all storefronts can follow through.
GOG doesn't provide you proof of ownership. Your local copy has no evidence it's yours, it's the same file for everyone, including the pirate bay. If you think that's legal, just download all your games from torrents. There's no evidence you did or didn't buy it. GOG only sells games that don't care about piracy. They're not checking. It's more likely some government fines GOG for doing this, and the legality is exactly why so many devs are skeptical of them. GOG is essentially a piracy site that charges money, and if the laws aren't going to be enforced, you have no need to pay them. GOG needs to provide an offline crypto token as proof of purchase, otherwise there's no point.
Don't forget that GOG actually had to step back from their cheekiness, as in their website they also stated that what they sell are licenses to the games, not full ownership. GOG only "good point" is that they limit only sell licenses to games that are DRM-free, so they can get away with just sending you a fully offline installer. Many game publishers are understandably reluctant to go full DRM-free, because there's no stopping you from just giving copies of your game to your friends, your family, etc.
GOG's success depends on how widespread piracy becomes. GOG mentioned that the biggest threat to GOG is pirates who will just steal and distribute games, and make developers not want to release on GOG.
@@PanduPoluan To be fair, games are generally a very personal thing. You generally won't really enjoy the games your friends do, and there's a system of honor still where if a product is good, you will buy it. Vote with your wallet as it were. I digress. Buying games is generally personal. I've got friends. Not many, but I have some. And our gaming libraries could not look any more different. I think for there to be overarching success within gaming in a DRM free system, actual care must be taken to make your game. It should be done for love and passion. Take GTA 5. That has such a long life, it's unbelievable, because everything about it was done with care, and all devs needed to do was sprinkle a little bit of dlc bullshit to an already established passion project. that and RDR. You have skryim too. That was build with care, despite it's flaws. The thing is about skyrim is, it kind of deserves to be pirated with all it's re-releases and the vig money it makes from the creation club. I hope bethesda makes tes6 a game worth buying.
Ngl, this warning isn’t enough. Government needs to straight up ban the right for companies to revoke these games. They need to say in bold letters that you don’t own shit buy “buying” this license
GOG, buying games physical in a store... its not really buying games, you are still just buying licenses. There is no change... just most digital stores can yank your game easy if the license is no longer valid. GOG and other ways you can keep playing it, even if you don't have the license to use it any more... but technically that is still using it illegally at that point, same as pirating.
@@MrML4L it doesn't require internet and you can always play it whenever you want, can mod it however you want, even after the game server has closed. That's the closest to "owning your game."
This is a step in the right direction. We definitely need more pro-consumer laws in regard to digital media purchases. Especially with how easily we can lose access to this stuff.
Yes i think this will make the information much more widespread I hope EU picks it up and makes a law like DIGITAL OWNERSHIP so companies have no choice other than to comply.
@@MrSamadolfo They can't stop publishers from pulling licenses. They're gaslighting you to buy more games from them. Read the EULAs and Terms of Service, if you see Limited License in there, you do NOT own your game and no amount of GOG fluffing your nads will change that.
@@SlitheringpeanutBut with GOG you don't need the Galaxy store to download the games, you can just get the idol from the website and that can not be taken away
@@Maverick_Jones45 That might have been the original purpose, but modern DRM for games does also prevent you from fully "owning" the game. Publishers can yank it away from you at their whim. Server-side technical issues can render singleplayer offline games unplayable because the DRM activation check can't run. Pretty much every major DRM technology released in the last fifteen years has had at least one significant outage.
@@EmberQuill Ik that but to say that all Physical discs have modern day DRM is a ridiculous claim that makes no sense at all Almost 90% of the games that have a Physical Disc release are fully complete and can be played completely offline from start to finish with a few exceptions and ppl look at those few exceptions and get gaslighted into thinking that every single Physical disc is like that when its not
@@Maverick_Jones45 A fair point, I suppose. It's just that bad experiences are far more memorable than good ones. It's been fifteen years but I still remember being unable to play Assassin's Creed II on release day because of some DRM server mishap, and that was far from the only time that DRM left me unable to play a game for a while despite legally owning it. DRM also interferes with backup and archival efforts due to the copy-prevention, so to some extent I still don't own even the games I bought in the 90s that have any kind of DRM, even if it's a simple "is the CD in the drive?" check. If I want to make a copy, perhaps because the original is getting somewhat degraded and I'm worried about one more scratch finally breaking it entirely, I have to circumvent the DRM or I'll no longer be able to play it.
Technically,, even physical games you don't own actually own, (kinda) if it's a physical copy, and a live service, publisher or studio can easily just discontinue the service, not allowing you play at all. The publisher owns the game. You're basically just buying a physical key to have access to it till it closes.
asking for governments to force indefinite software licenses, and making it possible to use forever even if it relies on external resources... sounds like government overreach to me.
@@AyaWetts Corporate overreach is a much bigger issue and government is how you keep that in check. It's not impossible to purchase a piece of software and have it indefinitely available. That's kind of how software worked before the internet. It was just on the customer to make sure the media it was housed on stayed in good condition or that it was properly backed up. That doesn't have to change with the digital era as GOG has demonstrated. Even if a piece of software depends on an external resource, if the company no longer intends to have that external resource available they should have to provide the details so that it can be independently recreated. I don't get why people feel the need to run defense for corporations that just see you as an opportunity to exploit for wealth.
With every further action taken against consumers, piracy becomes more justified and on a larger scale I'm even becoming sick of drm that impacts actual paying customers, and you what doesn't have drm? The pirated versions.
It's been justified for nearly 20 years. They just lied to you, until when there's really nothing you can do anymore. You've not owned a single game you bought in the past 16 years, read the various terms or end user agreements, if you see the words Limited License, guess what! Not your game!
The Denuvo virus is 90% of why I hear people take a ship and sail the high seas. DRM is a majority of the time a frame rate KILLER. So why pay for an inferior product?
GOG is still lying that they offer true ownership. Because true ownership includes the right to sell. Also, Steam is not requiring their version of game to have any DRM, including Steam's own. Some games can be just taken from Steam library and ran without Steam. It is 100% up to developers/publishers.
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue Yong. It's one of the subjects I am most passionate about, and I always find it weaselly when people try to point out that even physical media or GOG grants a "license" rather than ownership as if this isn't anything more than a meaningless misdirection. In reality it is functionally equivalent to ownership whether we call it that or not, and that's all that really matters. I don't know why people are so opposed to the idea of actually owning the things they buy. Stop defending these companies.
Just because GOG is providing offline installer for now, doesn't mean they will continue to do that in the future, some GOG offline installer doesnt even work well on some version of Windows. Remember inflation exists and as long as it exists, enshitification will happen one way or another.
@@lycanwarrior2137what steam cult? go ahead and read the gog tos and eula it’s the same every ducking piece of software used the same lincense system. since decades ago go ahead and read any nes era disk all of the are a lincense too every piece of software used lincense a you never owned the game you owned the plastic of the disc not the content
@@francisquebachmann7375 Well OK cool, until that day comes we'll worry about it then. I don't know what people are wanting or expecting here. There's never going to be a service that is guaranteed to exist in perpetuity as it was since its inception. But the great thing about this model as it works now is I don't have to feel tied to the service or hold any loyalty if anything does go wrong down the road. As long as I have my offline installers, I can just take my business elsewhere. That's not the case with other services that force many of your games to be tied to a client/login, and if you want to keep accessing them, you have to keep that service installed and in use.
People always come to news like this to say how the solution is buying physical media, but remember that no, physical media nowadays is often a lie, just a fancy digital purchase, because: - The box only has a digital code to download the game. - There's a disc, but it only has a few files, the actual game must be downloaded and the disc is only a key. - Sometimes, only parts of the game are available on disc, you can play without internet, but not the full game. - You can play the game without internet with just a disc, but not the good version of the game, because at launch, the game is full of problems and you need to download a patch later or there's a patch since day 1. - Sometimes, the patch is so big that you are almost downloading the whole game. - You still need to connect to the internet to buy and download DLC. - Online play is a vital part of the game, if servers close, you can still play offline, but you will have just a small slice of what the game used to be. - Playing online requires constant updates to the most recent version. - Many games are online-only, require a constant connection to the internet, even on single-player, and to make things worse, the servers often close, making your physical copy a paperweight.
If I didnt have a computer without a disc reader I would argue for the disc bit. But playing offline should be the norm with online beeing a secondary option. You wait bout 2 years after a release so everything is patched, added and complete as it should been on launch, with all content there.
I own many games and they all come complete on disc. I would much rather own a vanilla version of the game thsn be at the mercy of the publisher. I hate how companies are selling you collector's edition with a DIGITAL CODE.
It was always like this, it was always written in that wall of text that no one reads and clicks "I agree". The only thing that changed is that now, Steam has to make that clear.
THANK YOU! SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY PAID ATTENTION! I've been screaming about this for over 16 years! You have no idea how nice it is to see that someone ELSE took it upon themselves to know the truth.
I remember a while ago, i think it was Gabe Newell that said it, that if Steam ever goes down or bust, youll be able to download all your games with no DRM. I may be misremembering.
Yes. He said they will tell everyone. Give out universal steam key. So there no drama on your account. And you have think said 3 months to download any of your purchases. In short anything downloaded from steam will be playable too anyone with a steam universal key. So it will be a mad dash to download whatever you have. And tons of us would torrent out and in each other's keys. Making pretty muching any game at that time illegal freeware till it gets fully scrubbed. Which never works.
The reason GOG still mentions a license is because when you purchase a game, even back in the SNES days, you didn't all of a sudden OWN super Mario and could make a sexual or a movie of it. You purchased a perpetual license that granted you perpetual use of the game you purchased. GOG does the same in the digital world. Whereas other seem to offer you a license that is limited in time, scope etc but without letting the customer know in what ways.
In the e-book sphere, if all of a sudden a publisher becomes some “I know what is better than you and are the moral authority for saving humanity” and decides that Dr. Seuss is racist so they are going to ban all his books. They can remove that e-book from one’s device and than 6 months later resell those books because NOW they deemed them okay. The consumer is than forced to buy it a second time and there is no consequences for the e-book seller from their actions. In regards to licensing, Amazon already did this to it’s customers when they lost the license to sell “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas.” In the end it worked out, mostly, but it caused enough concern for digital content.
This is why it’s so important to own physical games, music, movies so if I were you, collect as much physical media as much as possible before it gets worse world wide.
The problem is for pc users disk drives are a thing if the past and most physical copies only have a digital code in console users are fine for now but eventually they'll get less and less honestly its a sad time
Physical is just as, if not worse, then digital For one, what happens when the update servers go down? Have fun playing Cyberpunk 1.0 What about cases like Elden Ring, where the discs were printed so early in development that the 1.0 build on the disc is a updated version of the technical network test with MANY unfinished quests and even missing weapons and full on bosses
What I would like to see after this is digital version of games are cheaper in general than their physical versions, since digital doesn't have to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
As an old gamer, I miss the documentation, maps, reference cards and other types of media included in games before the internet cheapened the world. Nothing like a game telling you to stop and go 'online' to read the documentation or close the game so you can use the PC to read the instructions/whatnot on the same screen. Lazy.
If they did that they would stop making physical copies altogether as nobody would pay $60+ for a physical copy when they can pay $20 for a digital copy. The exception being collectors but considering the insane prices they pay for things anyways (a million dollars for a super mario 64 sealed cart?) they don't count.
Price parity for countries like Australia for digi purchases would be appreciated too. The old reason, cost of shipping, no longer exists but the higher price point sure as hells does.
@@Bethgael You do get that you're currency exchange rate has something to do with the price difference as well right? As well as import tax & other regulatory costs. Yes even for digital goods/services.
It's been in the t.o.s. agreements for so long. Ages ago someone pointed it out to me in the earlt iTunes agreements. Maybe we can start working on simplifying those things next so people can read and understand what the money they spend gets them.
Depends on how affordable they are... in my country games arent affordable at all.. i only bought 3 games, arma 3 asetto corsa and valheim. For 9, 1 and 5 dollars.. i pirate almost evwry other game i've played.. if its affordable even pirates like myself do buy the games
if this is how paying for a game works, we as consumers deservw to know the EXACT length of the "liscense" we are buying. imagine renting a car, and you ask how long the rental options are, and they say "oh just whenever we decide you cant use it anymore". that should be ILLEGAL.
That's easy: your license lasts as long as Steam grants you a subscription to that license. If Steam allows that subscription to lapse for any reason(de-listing of a game, kicking a developer off their platform, etc.) your license...and your game goes away. I expect within the next five to ten years, a massive purging of Steam's outdated catalog of games, with this being the warmup for it.
@@Khasym im not super knowledgeable about consumer rights laws in america but havinf an ambiguous length of a subscription cant be legal can it? surely there has to be some sort of time frame alotted for the gaurenteed subscription of a liscense. otherwise people would never subscribe to anythinf for any reason. i would be shocked if its legal to sell someone something with only the promise that "at some point in the future" your product WILL be taken away
@@BloodDripss That's why Steam says something like this in all their updates now, "If you don't agree to these terms, we respect your decision. You will no longer be able to use your Steam account for playing games, and can deactivate your account by contacting our support team." Steam doesn't MAKE you use their service....but if you CHOOSE to continue using it, you MUST agree to their terms. You can't pick and choose what you'll accept from Steam: it's all or nothing.
@@NicholasBrakespear Not YET. They couldn't do it BEFORE, because you still OWNED your games under the law. This change actually came two years ago. As the war in Ukraine heated up, I opted to go buy "This War of Mine" from Steam, to lend a little support to 11- Bit Studios, a Ukranian based developer. When I went to authorize payment, I saw a forced prompt to read Steam's UPDATED TOS before I finished. That's where I saw I wasn't BUYING This War of Mine, I was being SUBSCRIBED to it. That's when I found the following(this may have changed with more updates, but this is what I found in 2022: 2. LICENSES ⏶ A. General Content and Services License "Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). =This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that INCLUDES the license.= The Content and Services are licensed, NOT sold. Your license confers NO title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet." Because you are not an owner, you have no rights to KEEP your games on Steam's service. Because Steam sells you a subscription, not a license, they have the power to end your subscription to a game, terminating your access TO it. Remember, they sold you a subscription to a LICENSE, they didn't sell you a LICENSE itself. That's why I expect a purge of Steam's content in the next few years. There's still all the shovelware from Steam Greenlight on the servers. Valve's preparing to dump the content that isn't making money, and will give an indifferent shrug to anyone who complains. Hell, this has been going down on the PSN for years, and Google did it with their audio section a few years back. Why is Steam suddenly the company everyone can trust?
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Steam is convenient and really cheap. And this is the reason for that. You're just paying for access. It's not "yours". I don't hate Steam but if investing on external HDDs and SSDs don't bother you, GOG is always a good alternative. Much like Steam, there's frequent sales and if you are diligent enough, youll get good deals very often. Their offline installers are great
There are actually a ton of games that are DRM free and you can just put them from the steam folder to a flash drive for storage. Steam is going to be around for a long time so I'm not worried at all.
Thats impossible, they cant force a company create products in a specific model. the next best thing i can think of. Mandatory refund if we lose acess to a game.
I can see the licensing for games and suff for live service games, and online mmos etc. digital media used to be a form of CONVIENENCE. Back when I had a 360, I installed Oblivion because it was just easier to swap games instead of going and swapping discs. If I don't own games, Piracy isn't stealing.
Hell, physical copies are NOT safe either, considering EA disabled installing SPORE (game from 2008) from a physically disk, the disks install onto your computer but even with the product key, you cannot access the game. You have to redeem the code on the EA installer to get a digital copy..
@crystalwater505 oh i know, but my point is, even physical copies are not safe. When EA has already shown that they'll just disable your discs from installing and being playable.
@@BigDaddyD807 Good thing they can't disable their games from PS1, PS2, PSP and Xbox OG consoles. Especially since these games were from decades ago too.
@BigDaddyD807 I call bullshit. Games in 2008 didn't work like they do now where its contents could be altered via the internet. In order for EA to do that with a game from 2008 the functionality would've had to be on the disc when it shipped. And I'm not positive about the details, but I'm pretty sure even now game updates just alter the version of the game that's stored digitally on the SSD that the disc is needed to access, not the contents of the disc directly.
@HunterStiles651 pulled from google. Spore is no longer available as a disc, it is only available as a digital download in Origin or Steam. A disc version is no longer supported by EA. You'd have to buy the digital version! Physical discs no longer work.
That how it always been, even with physical media. It always says you don't own copy, you purchased licensed to use xyz under conditions and terms. It would either be during installation or on the first launch. And always include something like terms can change without your approval, license can be revoked and we also kinda don't have to support it. Literally nothing has changed with things becoming digital. Only anti-copy and anti-priacy protection methods became more advanced. You can still download all the steam games to physical disk for storage for ease of access and safe keeping. In fact that what I do, with my old NAS. The biggest threat to you gaming library is live services, that require you to be always online, always on their server. And second is cloud gaming.
The physical purchases that need to download something to play them is completely false. I've not have internet for a couple years because of financial issues and every physical game i bought i was able to put it in my ps5 and play it. There were glitchs yes, but i was able to play the game i bought fully lol. Only the online only part of the games dont work because obviously you needed internet for it "but obviously i only cared about the solo story open world offline mode of games."
@@animegeek3109 thank you!!!! Exactly!! All these ignorant people are just making the problem worse by believing that when it's only a small percentage of games that require online. If more people actually held the damn line, we could avoid a future where gaming becomes a subscription service, and no one owns anything. It's so dumb
"I've not have Internet for a couple of years..." well it's really impressive that you can write comments on a TH-cam video with no Internet buddy. Did you send Yong a letter instead 😂😂😂😂
@@kityhawk2000I've personally not had home internet for the last 6 months. Even today, rn... and guess how I'm able to write comments on TH-cam w no internet?... My phone. They were likely stating that they don't actually pay for an internet provider. But when in doubt, common sense prevails
One of the main reasons I primarily buy from Steam is the regional pricing. As someone from South Africa, buying games on Steam that have regional pricing cost half (sometimes less) the price than if I had to buy from GoG or any other retailer. Having said that, it might be time to bite the bullet and start supporting GoG a lot more.
Other question is "Why are we paying full price if we don't own it!?" In an industry that has day-one DLC, pre-order bonuses for paying extra, and day-one season passes how are they not making enough??? How is this anything but milking people's wallets????
It’s the most dogs**t thing I’ve ever heard. You don’t own the product u pay for. Than pirating should be legalized worldwide.but illegal to share the knowledge of how to pirate things.
That's why im limiting buying games online because I hate how they trying to overcharge us when were not playing games were done with. They mind as well give us refund back
@@zahirecoates same, I was the type of guy that bought most games the launch day, now I’m just wishlisting them and waiting for a discount. Sometimes just not buying it at all.
To be honest they should change the wording from purchase to lease since purchase to most people implies you own it not you have permission to play it till the devs decide you can't.
That is the wrong word... you are buying a license, you are not leasing one. You are not buying or renting the game... just a license on how you can access/use/play it.
I can also play my Steam games without Internet. Just turn on Offline Mode, done. GOG being cheeky while in fact they themselves also only sells Licenses to games. The difference is only that GOG limits themselves to DRM-free games. And the offline installer that GOG gives out? Now you need twice the storage to keep the installer and the game proper. Steam installs the game for you so you don't have to keep the installer. And if you want to keep the game? Just zip the correct folder under steamapps\common.
Steam takes a 30% cut and prohibits people who sell on their platform to charge much less elsewhere, devs have to price their games to account for that. So valve is inflating the price of digital games everywhere as well, even on platforms like GOG that let you own the software. They could cost a quarter of what they do now.
serieously.. sometimes people need to just take a step back and take a look at the whole picture. software was never 'owned' beyond the disc with the installer. with online services they just enabled themselfes to have more control.. thats why I avoided steam etc. for as long as possible. the games on my ubisoft account are all free games from a pc magazine when microsoft live services were abandonen a lot of titles were like torchlight II, batman arkham city etc. were updated (for free) to make us of steamworks. I only spend money I am OK with loosing anyway. but to this day steam has never disappointed me. unlike rockstar who ripped gta IV in pieces because of licences that expired for them
Tbh I don't really have that much fears about it because the very fact you have the data on the disk *in* *your* *full* *control* means all just that has to be done is bypassing the any of the digital lock crap. Which no matter what any law says about that, is a thing that can be done, and is done every time. Now all Steam has to do is just be GOG imho. And this goes away just like a Thanos snap.
That and with how emulators and cracked version exist it shouldn't be too hard to put two and two together i think while old games might vanish there will probably still be cracked versions that will live on in shady corners I mean its out on the Internet its permanently there
I think the issue is that eventually, potentially everything could be streamed. Ideally we nip this in the bud before we get to that point, cause if everything is streamed AND this current license "renting" method is still in play, things could get disastrous.
Since PS3 era, discs have keys signed into it. The manufacturer and/or publisher can lock you from it remotely, and this happened on Switch carts. In worst case they can use your drive to burn crap on the disc itself.
@@knivy6160 The license 'renting' method has been how Books have worked since copyright law first became recognizably similar to what we now have, for reference. The difference is that modern technology allows the licensor to actively sabotage the licensee's ability to actually do the thing that was the entire point in the license in the first place, where as prevously the physical reality of the world made it impossible to do that without commiting multiple physical real world crimes... or at least engaging in a lot of paperwork at a very impractical scale.
When it comes to physical media as the correct way to preserve ownership Rights and games, to the people saying: "what about the unifinished 1.0 version on disk?" - *Games should be a verified functioning and almost bug-free gold launch version on disc, on launch.* "what about discs/media which doesn't have the whole game or any of the game on disc?" - *Every physical media launch should be required to have the full game on disc/media.* "what about online requirements and DRM for single player games" - *Every single player game should be playable offline, period.* *Until the above are guaranteed in law, piracy via cracked and repacked games, and cracked DRM, will be **_THE_** way to guarantee ownership over games, and long term storage.* 💯
If your ownership rights revolve around a single copy on physical media... you have very few rights at all. Unless you really want a return to the "good old days" of SecuROM where you're not allowed to make backup copies, then physical media is not the "correct way to preserve ownership rights and games"; the correct way is to ensure that the license - that you were always buying, even in the case of physical copies - protects you and enshrines your continued use of the software.
@@NicholasBrakespear *Which is what GOG does.* I have people in this comment section arguing that "if you aren't buying the entire intellectual property created by multiple companies over the course of years with millions of dollars" then "you aren't buying a copy of the game". 🤦 Yes, physical copies had a license agreement on the back of the case or in the game. The whole reason GOG is better than every other storefront, when it comes to ownership, is because no government, company, or person can revoke your access to your copy. This is how it was with physical media for the overwhelming majority of it's lifespan. Licensing laws are the way to enshrine ownership Rights, whether it's physical, digital, or both.
@@LukeHimself Yes, but if you peruse the comments you'll see that the vast majority of people don't know that what they're buying is a license... and don't know what they mean by "ownership" except in the vaguest of terms. And it is in the vaguest of terms that the most exploitative terms can be defined, covertly. That's why things degenerated so far in the first place; new generations of gamers, raised on "dad's collection of games" etc, had no idea what it was they were actually buying and the rights that should have afforded them. I mean really, look at the state of things. I had a debate with one person a few days back who was insisting that "licenses" were a thing that only applied when you were accessing software on someone else's machine. People just don't know, and that's why they get screwed over.
@@NicholasBrakespear That's all facts.. I wrote a little more, but erased it for brevity. People allowed these corporations to erase physical media, and the golden era of hardware it would've brought with it. They allowed phones to become "leased" items you buy, and think you own, but you can't even repair the thing without legal risk, the same thing goes for cars, and other "owned things". Working on cars is becoming a nightmare, electric cars make it the true "leased car no matter what". This all ties in with the "Right to repair", and I guess it also ties in with "you will own nothing and be happy".
every form of software works like this??? since decades ago? go ahead and read the eula of any nes era game they say the same shit you don’t own any form of software you own the plastic of the disc of the hardrive and have a license to used it just like books you don’t own the content you own the paper of music of movies of every fucking piece of software since the 70s
I made the decision to buy all of my games from GOG thirteen years ago, and never looked back. I rarely spend money on Steam. Only when absolutely necessary.
I guess this is a very small step to the right direction, but that disclosure is in fine print on the side of the Steam's purchase page so it can easily be missed. They need to make it more apparent, because I guess that most people don't read such small prints after they've been using Steam for years now, if not decades.
I know a lot of people here are from the US, but at least for us Australians this isn't really an issue because no matter what Valve says, they must follow our consumer protection laws to operate in the country, which protect us from bs like this and provides official channels for lawsuits if Valve/Steam were to violate them. If you want to sell in Aus, everyone plays by the same rules. No exceptions.
Incoming scam, pay 70 bucks for a license and a week later. Game removed. You don't own it. Why would they feel the need to run a server after they got your money. You don't own anything, so the game doesn't exist for you.
Repack the games without Steam DRM and save it in your server/drive. This goes for console games too. Support your local game stores and back up those cartridges/discs.
Took long enough for such a law to come into existence! It's sad the majority of people only understood the repercussions of digital purchases only recently. I wonder if this would bring a boom to physical game purchases? Or will laziness win out and no consumer habits change.
I literally own thousands of games just on steam. I do not have the physical space to house physical copies for all of them. It's cool to have physical copies of stuff I really like but it really isn't practical anymore to have physical copies of everything I own.
@theodis8134 - I'm in a similar boat, my collection is in the hundreds, but still I understand you completely. You know you can just sell the games for on ebay. Many can be sold for 50 - 200% of the price you paid for them. With the odd one going for more or less. This is the true value of ownership. It may be a hassle, but the option's always there. I plan to sell my CD games some time.
Then Steam needs to reimburse me for every penny I spent with them for every grandfathered game prior to this "law" of licensing. They need to pay me, or guarantee me those games prior to "licensing law" will always have access to either on a forever server or time enough to back them up with NO DRM! They can have every Game I bought back then if I don't own them, but they need to pay me every dime, no matter how long I played them. Piracy is not stealing then, when they stole from me, when they guaranteed me access. That's all I've heard for decades, they will be available to me if Steam goes under. If they take my games, I'll just snake it, end of story and go that way in the future. The entire reason I don't pirate... is steam... Gabe. WTF?
One thing a US court has no influence on european or south american trade policies and political steering on economical senses, meaning the case is ineffective beyond their borders. As for europe i believe there was a law that states everyone owns their product.
This makes me miss game cartridges and CDs. Way back when before Steam was so massive that was a concern we all had 'do we own the game'. They used the words 'buy' 'own' 'b2p' and others consistently in their communications to quell concerns. I don't have proof, I just have memories, I'm sure i'm not alone in that.
Yeah it was much better back in the days when... you weren't allowed to create backups because the software was infested with SecuROM or other copy protection systems, so if your disc broke you were screwed.
yeah then ur game breaks. now u either buy a new game. or you are effed... because where can u still get a brand new fresh copy of say : pokemon fire red. i dont think any store exists where u can just waltz in and buy one of those.
Dude, its common sense that if the software or games you buy relies on a network server just to access it, means you don't really own it. You think its only bad now but its been this way since 2004, you're just ignorant about the End user license agreement and TOS for every software/games you buy.
@@francisquebachmann7375 I was just referring to the good ol days you bought a game popped it into your Ps2 and played it I’ve always been a physical game collector
Its always been like that for years. They just put it where people can actually read it. Steam is nice enough not to remove games from your library that are delisted in store. Hope it stays that way.
I was saving up for ps5 pro. Then seeing what it comes with and what it could do. I change my mind. So I decided to save up for a "Steam Deck Oled" now I see this?!? Just 2 more pay days I could get it, "not anymore"... what do we work for now, when nothing belongs to you.... thx for the heads brotha👊
Every game we buy is a license, we don't own any intellectual property even if we buy a DMR-free physical copy. The problem with this law and with the way is portrayed in news (even like this one) if that it is never especifies which license and, in the cases it is, is always full of legal jargon that makes them unuseful. Example: a license that grants lifetime downloads, grants access to the game, downgradable to any version since you bought it and non-removable by publisher as long as the service exists is an OK license; meanwhile a license that allows the publisher to removed sold copies from the platform is not. The fact that Transformers games can't be bought from Steam any longer, while can be played and downloaded by owners (licensees), is not the same case as purchased films removed from libraries.
This is a totally different issue. You don't own the IP or distribution rights of a book if you buy it but you still have it forever. It is your property. If someone steals it there are legal avenues to get it back. You don't have to worry about the bookstore coming back and saying "Sorry, we closed we're taking this back now". Buying on GOG is like buying from a bookstore, buying from Steam is like paying full price to be allowed to read the book in the store until the day they close or get rid of the book.
I didn't know about any of this, as I got into PC gaming two years ago. Thank god I bought games on GOG rather than Steam, even if Steam was more popular. Funny enough I have a steam account but I don't have a single game there.
Yup, it's maddening that nobody seems to be aware of this - it was always the choice of the publisher/developer to use Steam's DRM and to not offer an alternative executable for pure offline.
@@davidlanceescandor1310 You can't decline them, or else you'll be unable to play the game. I know we're buying a license, but if companies could actually revoke your purchased games, that's going to be a big deal for many of us.
@@davidlanceescandor1310 You literally don't have a choice in the matter period. You either accept the EULA or you aren't allowed to play x game. You pay 70 dollars for a game that requires you to accept a eula to play and you don't accept, you now have a 70 dollar brick in your library. Enjoy.
@@maverickrx8 You buy a license... the EULA is an End User License Agreement... its what you are agreeing to about your license. If you do not agree to it, you can legally, and by the EULA, get your license purchase refunded.
Bruh i know this since years before. And that's why i stopper my steam game buying spree long ago. Cuz if i not own my bought game why bother buying it digitally on full price. Cuz if steam goes under and poof your game is gone also.
Read the EULA. Its been this way since I can remember. Even way back when the game booklets came in the game cases. There is specific verbiage stating you are purchasing a single License for Home use. This specifically was meant to legally stop gaming pubs from charging to play games or people setting up gaming tents at swap meets and charge people per X minute periods. After so many threads of telling Ponies who were trying to wave the "I own my games on PS" banner and even screenshotted the End User LICENSE Agreement that spells out nobody OWNS these games when they pay for a License to play them.
@@NicholasBrakespear No, you purchased a good. It's your property and you can use it forever, like a book. You don't own IP or distribution but you can use the software forever. It's a totally different issue.
I just went to check. And the warning you talk about doesn't come when I try to buy a game on steam here in Denmark. So I think they have only chosen to add the warning to customers affected by this new law. And not globally.
As beloved as Steam is as a digital platform and launcher, make no mistake, you pretty much own or have full autonomy of access over none of those games. The more laws can push towards normalizing GOG's model of digital ownership and autonomy over your digital purchases, the safer a digital future can feel for consumers.
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Yong, make a video on MultiVersus, how they improved a little over the relaunch, but the game still has many, many problems.
Hmmm but I can copy game folders like Vampire Survivors out and send the whole folder to my friends. How would you speak about that?
(edit: Vampire Survivors is a game sold on Steam for 4.99 USD. Because of the sheer small size of the game client, we were able to copy the whole folder into a CD and sell it for around 10 USD in street stalls in my country. The reception wasn't that good tho.)
Since we are licensing games now instead of purchasing, that means prices should drop by 80% now, no "rental" or "licensed" product costs full price.
By ''now'' you mean since the early 00s?
@@LoneTiger uh it was like this since the floppy disk games…
prices should reflect distance from retail release. the further from the release date the cheaper it becomes. none of these been out 2-10 years and full retail price.
Yup. Their pretty much getting away with murder till they pass more laws too stop them. Trust me when I say this, this shit should be illegal.
We also still pay for packaging prices when there is no package anymore.
And this is why piracy will still be a thing.
Don't want piracy? Change the laws to benefit the consumer.
Read your EULAs. You don't own anything electronic.
Yes you do
"Consumer" is such a horrible term.
We are the Customer.
@@LukeHimself And like everyone knows, *_the costumer is always right._*
@@Slitheringpeanut ya Count's found that the eula can't enforce work around to program you have purchased. That was part of the right to repair a thing
This is the wrong solution. We need laws to ensure we own what we buy, not to disclose that we don’t own.
Yeah, all they did was read the terms and services out loud.
I can already imagine a new "I'm aware I am purchasing a license and not being granted ownership of the product" tick box next to all of the other agreements on websites like cookies and ToS. It's an illusion of choice that's just an ultimatum by any other name.
A step on the right direction, but there is still a long way to go
This is normalising not owning. Not fighting against it
Go to gog
If they steal my games I’ll just pirate them back. Take me to court, I have every receipt and every email.
They just say you didn't read the terms and conditions which state you don't own it and only hold a licences to use it so good luck there
At best you might get a refund but thats at best
Addressing the replies here.. contrary to popular belief, just because a company puts something in their terms and conditions does not mean it will hold water in court, even if you signed it. That is not how contract law works.
@@forwarduntodawn1000 EULA doesn't automatically mean they win.
Courts can and have overruled Terms and Conditions before.
@@forwarduntodawn1000 Terms and conditions don't overwrite laws. Like for instance companies can't just say "We own you if you agree to this contract" even if you did sign it, it's an unlawful contract.
@@forwarduntodawn1000 They also never stated how long do i have the license. For me its as long as i live simple as that.
Now they need to force them to give automatic refunds if access is removed
That won't happen. They will take your money, and leave with you nothing. Buy from GOG, or buy Physical on consoles, if you don't want these greedy companies to have full control over your digital library.
@DeadPhoenix86DP physical on consoles will eventually go away too sadly
@@lovelorn88nick So does consoles.
@@DeadPhoenix86DP huh?? Dude that's literally what I JUST said. Lol
They kinda did with Concord
If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing.
did u own movies if u buy Netflix monthly? 😂😂😂
@@watson1212 Obviously not, that's why pirating them is all good.
@@watson1212thats a terrible analogy lmao
@@watson1212 Well unless u was ordering the disc from Netflix. Even tho it's rented, there was no late fees. So lot of people would just keep the disc
@@watson1212 Netflix is streaming not owning
If we are renting the games and not owning them, then why the hell are we paying full price? They should be 20 bucks the most
You’ll need governments to come in again sir
@@jessewayman4181 buy physical! It's not rocket science. That's the only way we keep them from doing that
So companies can take advantage of the consumer. That’s the reason why
what is even, 'full price'? Is that even defined anywhere? After six months they tend to drop a lot anyway... there's a clue. But you know, everyone FOMO go pays... :D
Whose we
I still buy physical media. Way cheaper in the long run
Company: You license the game, you don't own the game.
Me: Then what's the f$&# is the point of paying a arm and a leg for the game then?!?!
Not only that, but the game is in a constant Work in Progress for years
So shareholders and investors get that sweet, sweet high of profit. /s
They don't care. They just want you to. And funnily enough, YOU HAVE.
Yeah recently €70 AAA games became €80 it’s getting so much worse.
@@errorx_x1063work in progress. Bro unfinished. It’s like 20% complete when they launch it.😅
This is why pirating is not only ethical, but mandatory for acquiring back-up copies.
They were the true heroes all along.
You’re damn right they are^^
Also please anyone that has a “Holier than thou mentality”
On certain pirating sites, you ruin it all for us folk that were actually brought up correctly.
Self evaluate yourself in the mirror and try acting like an actual adult for once. You ruin it for the majority of us.😂 😂
I agree I don’t think I can trust digital games from steam anymore after this especially with Gabe stating they have a kill switch for Steam 😱
Sorry to bother boss but what are some good vids to learn how to pirate? I've been seeing droves of people telling me it's just the best option and that I should but I have no idea where to get started and you seem like you know. Any recs would be greatly appreciated ^^
@@easydayez Couldn't agree more, & please DO NOT SHARE PIRATING SITES OPENLY ON THE INTERNET.
I shouldn't even have to state this. But frankly there are an incredible amount of incapable folk compared to capable.
No this wasn’t aimed at you. Easy.
I love it. I’ve supported GOG for years due to their policy on giving people actual digital ownership. My only complaint is that their library doesn’t even touch the numbers that Steam gets, so I usually end up buying games off GOG when I have the option to. Hopefully this news gets more developers to go over to GOG. If it were up to me, I’d buy 100% of my games off them.
ya. I do wish people would acknowledge the fact that GOG exist...so many people keep acting like the only options that isnt steam is EGS... I dont use GoG too much but I do have a fair handful of games on it all the same and it is very much my fall back if I ever need it.
That' the major issue with GoG, I don't really have the space but i gues installer files dont take up that much
I wish developers would stop treating GOG as this second-class citizen. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, fucking hell, it's irritating for no good reason.
Same here, I rarely buy from Steam these days. Sadly GOG is a small market and companies have little reason to release a game DRM free on day one if that means potential loss of sales. The blame is fully on consumer for not demanding all games to be DRM free, but hopefully this makes people think twice.
@@arnox4554 The reason why publishers avoid platforms like GOG is because:
a) You can literally copy game files and distribute them. If you buy the new Silent Hill 2 Remake on GOG (just pretend it's available there for arguments sake) what's stopping you from passing that onto a friend who wants the game? Zero DRM makes publishers avoid putting their biggest new games on GOG, which is why big hitters like Konami and Capcom only allow classic games from 20+ years ago to sell on there.
b) Lack of control. Companies like Capcom apply here, who want to keep an eye on things using Denuvo technology. Without DRM, they can't make sure you aren't modding games like RE2 remake.
I understand why DRM exists, but I feel like devs go too far with certain things. The online checks are one thing, but things like Denuvo, dictating whether or not people can mod a game, and straight up yoinking games out of people's libraries is an over reach that compromises my understanding, and makes me root for companies like GOG to have an uprising.
And these companies wonder why pirating is so prevalent
If anything, this is only helping piracy to become more popular.
The people that pirate have been doing it since day one, with physical disks these are not noble people these are scammers killing small dev studios, and making gaming in general poor.
@@gloomyvale3671I always pirate from these AAA studios because I don't own the copy I bought like wtf?? And yeah I never pirate from indie devs lol I buy their games.
@@gloomyvale3671 Lol no. Gaming is more lucrative than every other form of entertainment COMBINED. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@gloomyvale3671 That's just not true
The problem isn't coming from Valve. It's the publisher. If you buy any CDPR games on Steam, you can just directly copy paste the entire game folder to wherever you want and run the game without Steam exists nor any issue. This is the greedy publisher issue.
but valve could go the route of gog and force publishers to either adapt or die on the pc market
@@SuperEarther I don't think Valve could do that. Many games that are released on Steam just abscent from GOG. It's the publisher decide what platform they release their games. Such as Epic, it make Alan Wake 2 excusive on Epic Games on PC, ridiculous.
@@kiss4luna if everyone did what gog does then the gaming market would change. lets see what the pushback from consumers does
It's both, you can buy games on gog itch and humble and download and play them forever even if they have DRM. In most cases valve can at any time tell you that you can't play a game anymore.
Will the copy and paste work for Square Enix titles?
The endgame for corporations is to force you to keep paying to ACCESS a game. This future is what they want more than anything.
The future??? Have you ever heard of MMORPGs? You know the games that you can buy but still have to pay a subscription to have access to them. None of this is new.
You see it more clearly than most. That's where we're headed too. They're going lean heavy in the "Network Subscription" direction. Sony will be the first to try.
Yup that's why piracy is now completely normalized to casuals. Iv heard kid's talking about his dad getting him a fire stick with emulators on it like last week.
@@Penguin-qp2wk Yes but that's not nearly the same thing. It's impossible to run an MMO without customers paying for it to some degree. Even free MMOs run off expensive digital purchases. Running an MMO is expensive, and money needs to come from somewhere in a game where you agree to be always online. Those are specific games that have always been known to have paid access. That is not the same a company forcing you to pay perpetually to access a single player game. That is completely ridiculous, and that is the main future we don't want.
I was thinking this same thing. What’s stopping companies from now charging an annual “license fee”
Deleting stuff from users' libraries should be punishable in the same way that pirateing games is.
And borking people's games (e.g. by shutting down services and not patching the game) should be considered vandalism of people's property!
It's sad that GOG is the best option and then there is piracy. These two options are the best.
I mean there's itch... and then there are various developers who sell their software licenses directly from their own websites...
Basically the best option is - don't be a fool.
What's wrong with gog? It's amazing.
@@Leymora YES! It is! I love it! I'm just saying, too bad others don't have the same practices as them. GOG is the best option.
@@Leymoragog's line up is kind of hit and miss and it doesnt have games in my language :(
I really want buy game from GOG but the problem is there no currency for my country, when steam have lots so many available country currency
That won't fly in Europe where the laws have passed that require these games to function and be accessible in perpetuity. We can only hope it comes to the US.
If it requires a fix for the entirety of Europe, i'd be kind of pointless to not implement it globally. They'd gain literally nothing but bad PR.
@@warbossgegguz679 Apple did it, they litterally desgined 2 sepreate IOS versions they supported, sideloading enabled and alternative app store enabled IOS for Europe and the rest of the world gets normal IOS
This just, isn't true
What your thinking of is the stop killing games initiative, which EU lawmakers haven't even commented on yet
There has been 0 discussion in the EU about this
What's the source of that? I haven't heard about a law like that being implemented
Ubisoft being the ones pushing this law.
Imagine a world where every digital purchase store in existence is legally forced to change the "Buy" button to the "Rent" button.
That will hurt sales quite a bit broadly across all services.
This "Could" also create consumer outrage which can cause a downward pressure on price. NOBODY wants to pay full retail price for "Rentals".
I know it's a small chance, but I hope the law eventually forces this outcome.
Or force them to admit that you do own it and keep it available, before the market falls apart and everyone goes back to physical products that have to work on day one as advertised.
Its not a rental, you are buying a license. You think you are buying a game... but you are not. You never did. Even 40 years ago buying games was the same as today, its a license. They can revoke the license at any time. People like physical DRM free copies because they can play it even if the license is revoked. Technically that would still be illegal and the same as pirating if the license was revoked for any reason.
if you look closely, steam is already set for this. they have a "pay" button.. could mean anything.. laws that just change names of buttons do nothing for us.. there must be a law that forces stores to provide you a way to install and use the media you payed for without internet access. that would be precise and effective.
but for that to happen, the ppl who actually understand digital media must fill positions within the goverment and law system.. these ppl are all from the last gens right now and have no clue what they are deciding over..
@@AyaWetts 9:57 this part is for you.
No, it's not like 40 years ago. As long as you have a working console, and the disc or cartridge is still readable, the game is playable forever.
Games on an account do not have that luxury. They can disappear from your list whenever the developers or publishers feel like.
Even physical media nowadays are made to check if the game is still allowed to be played. And by nowadays I mean that started to happen around or after 360 and ps3 era.
Just renewed my GOG account, and BOUGHT a ton of games since they are having an awesome sale. Got a lot of classics for almost nothing and some new stuff too. Then downloaded all the offline installers and rejoiced with the forgotten feeling of actually owning my sh*t.
I dont wanna go back for around 20 years lol
Still don’t know how not owning Ubisoft games digitally is going to up their tanking stock
Basically it turns games as goods into games as a service
- subscriptions, cloud only
- micro transactions, loot boxes etc...
- in game advertisements, marketing
It didn't tank it either. What damaged their stock was bad game releases. Simply because you never owned any of the games you ever bought. Not a single one. It's always been 'limited licenses'.
Is this a reference to that one quote from a Ubisoft guy saying consumers should get used to not owning their games? Because if so congratulations you read a headline, moved on, and let that live in your head.
From that same interview: "The point is not to force users to go down one route or another," he explains. "We offer purchase, we offer subscription, and it's the gamer's preference that is important here. We are seeing some people who buy choosing to subscribe now, but it all works".
And he was also directly making a comparison between how people have come to widely accept Music and Movie streaming/subs.
"One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen in games"
Y'all love to read 1 quote without context that riles you up because "Ubisoft bad" and then refuse to look any further into it. It's embarrassing
Nah Ubisoft actually hates this. They can no longer fool the sheep thinking they own the games with the word "Purchase". The stock will go down.
@RedSpy47 ok ubishill, I'm gonna counterargumement with that a subscription on a rental or "buying to own"... a rental... isn't different. We pay a fee to not have a permanent copy, we do not own our cds, we do not own our dvds, and we do not own our games. It's still a sht take even with context, it's why nobody cares. There is no better point made, if you cut the crap and say it in plain speech, we'd still be upset. You typed corporate speak to convince us we were hasty lol
God dude, i remember Steam saying shit like "If steam closed down, you'd be able to download your games and keep them" Waaaaaaaay back in the say
And we only have their word that this is the case. No way to know if that really is true or not.
I think Valve assumed that the publishers would still let people play the games, even without Steam. Steam is just the store and launcher, and clearly they don't have the ability to make publishers sell full access if they don't want to do it.
yeah valve said they did have a killswitch idea incase shit hit the fan.
people speculate we get an ''emulator'' of sorts that just runs the games all the same.
but i highly doubt valve will shut down. like ever. they are so succesfull. the only downside to steam is not being able to play games without internet after a week or so.
And Netflix said that you AND your family could watch from anywhere. How funny that that option changed despite getting more members added to streaming.
@@cozenw3236it’s never really just your family though is it? It’s extended family and friends.
"Since we are licensing games now instead of purchasing". one of the top comments...
This is why they put the label there, because unless you buy something like a Steam deck, its always been a digital license.
If we don’t own them why do we pay full price
you have never owned them, and have never paid full price. If you actually bought a game you'd pay millions and be allowed to copy and sell licenses for it yourself. They still own the game, they just sell you licenses to use it... this is not new with digital stores, its been like this decades
because humans are stupid.. and as long as we continue to pay whatever they ask for, nothing will change.. even with the knowledge that we own shit..
@@AyaWetts I direct your attention to the used game market. Copies of games that exist independently of their publisher. This didn't stop decades ago; it exists right now. Would it be more expensive for developers to produce such physical media, prohibitively so for most indies? Yes. Yet here we are, watching the pendulum swing back towards physical ownership.
DRM can be cracked. Day one DLC can be copied and distributed. Ownership doesn't require millions, only honest transactions. GOG has proven that. Steam will have to toe the line or get knocked flat.
"Full price" is set by the cost it takes to publish and expected revenue, steam takes a 30% cut of sales because they have market dominance and they can. If you sell there you can't sell much cheaper elsewhere. People only buy games when there's a steam sale, so to stay in business studios have to price like triple the amount you would have needed because after taxes you're taking home a fraction of the money your game is making.
@@AyaWetts You can buy games on itch humble and gog for the same price and own them and play them forever. The difference is valve can at any time tell you that you can't play the game anymore.
GOG definitely deserves it’a praise for this recent event. I also would agree that if GOG’s success can be more widespread, then maybe more if not all storefronts can follow through.
GOG doesn't provide you proof of ownership. Your local copy has no evidence it's yours, it's the same file for everyone, including the pirate bay. If you think that's legal, just download all your games from torrents. There's no evidence you did or didn't buy it. GOG only sells games that don't care about piracy. They're not checking. It's more likely some government fines GOG for doing this, and the legality is exactly why so many devs are skeptical of them. GOG is essentially a piracy site that charges money, and if the laws aren't going to be enforced, you have no need to pay them. GOG needs to provide an offline crypto token as proof of purchase, otherwise there's no point.
Don't forget that GOG actually had to step back from their cheekiness, as in their website they also stated that what they sell are licenses to the games, not full ownership.
GOG only "good point" is that they limit only sell licenses to games that are DRM-free, so they can get away with just sending you a fully offline installer.
Many game publishers are understandably reluctant to go full DRM-free, because there's no stopping you from just giving copies of your game to your friends, your family, etc.
GOG's success depends on how widespread piracy becomes. GOG mentioned that the biggest threat to GOG is pirates who will just steal and distribute games, and make developers not want to release on GOG.
@@PanduPoluan To be fair, games are generally a very personal thing. You generally won't really enjoy the games your friends do, and there's a system of honor still where if a product is good, you will buy it. Vote with your wallet as it were.
I digress. Buying games is generally personal. I've got friends. Not many, but I have some. And our gaming libraries could not look any more different.
I think for there to be overarching success within gaming in a DRM free system, actual care must be taken to make your game. It should be done for love and passion. Take GTA 5. That has such a long life, it's unbelievable, because everything about it was done with care, and all devs needed to do was sprinkle a little bit of dlc bullshit to an already established passion project. that and RDR.
You have skryim too. That was build with care, despite it's flaws. The thing is about skyrim is, it kind of deserves to be pirated with all it's re-releases and the vig money it makes from the creation club. I hope bethesda makes tes6 a game worth buying.
@PanduPoluan So basically, GOG is like a double-edged sword ?
Ngl, this warning isn’t enough. Government needs to straight up ban the right for companies to revoke these games. They need to say in bold letters that you don’t own shit buy “buying” this license
I still remember that "Physical DVD" for a game that only had the installer. Talk about a bait-and-switch!
It's good that Steam and other platforms have to say it, but GOG even if it has some bugs it always has been the most fair platform next to Steam.
I'm glad GOG get more more advertisement thanks to "you don't own your game" tactic
its not that steam is caught out and has to say it, they are being forced to say you dont own anything by law, not by their own choice.
@@ReigoVassal You also dont own your games from gog. Its just DRM and launcher free.
GOG, buying games physical in a store... its not really buying games, you are still just buying licenses. There is no change... just most digital stores can yank your game easy if the license is no longer valid. GOG and other ways you can keep playing it, even if you don't have the license to use it any more... but technically that is still using it illegally at that point, same as pirating.
@@MrML4L it doesn't require internet and you can always play it whenever you want, can mod it however you want, even after the game server has closed.
That's the closest to "owning your game."
12:20
_"we want to ensure your gaming legacy is always in your hands, not ours"_
that's a very gamer uplifting motto.
This is a step in the right direction. We definitely need more pro-consumer laws in regard to digital media purchases. Especially with how easily we can lose access to this stuff.
Yes i think this will make the information much more widespread I hope EU picks it up and makes a law like DIGITAL OWNERSHIP so companies have no choice other than to comply.
I knew GOG would fire strays.
😒👍 GOG FTW
they can still take away your license, if you go online but if you downloaded the game before you license got yoinked it will stay in your pc.
@@MrSamadolfo They can't stop publishers from pulling licenses. They're gaslighting you to buy more games from them. Read the EULAs and Terms of Service, if you see Limited License in there, you do NOT own your game and no amount of GOG fluffing your nads will change that.
@@Slitheringpeanut GOG literally has offline installers
@@SlitheringpeanutBut with GOG you don't need the Galaxy store to download the games, you can just get the idol from the website and that can not be taken away
People should've been aware of this already, but now that more people recognize the problem we can start to demand change.
There's a LOT of DRM in physical media, going all the way back to the '80s. GOG is the gold standard for preservation and ownership, not physical.
Those kinds of DRM on physical media are put in place so that u don't pirate the game.. they aren't put in place to not let u own the game
@@Maverick_Jones45 That might have been the original purpose, but modern DRM for games does also prevent you from fully "owning" the game. Publishers can yank it away from you at their whim. Server-side technical issues can render singleplayer offline games unplayable because the DRM activation check can't run. Pretty much every major DRM technology released in the last fifteen years has had at least one significant outage.
@@EmberQuill Ik that but to say that all Physical discs have modern day DRM is a ridiculous claim that makes no sense at all
Almost 90% of the games that have a Physical Disc release are fully complete and can be played completely offline from start to finish with a few exceptions and ppl look at those few exceptions and get gaslighted into thinking that every single Physical disc is like that when its not
@@Maverick_Jones45 A fair point, I suppose. It's just that bad experiences are far more memorable than good ones. It's been fifteen years but I still remember being unable to play Assassin's Creed II on release day because of some DRM server mishap, and that was far from the only time that DRM left me unable to play a game for a while despite legally owning it.
DRM also interferes with backup and archival efforts due to the copy-prevention, so to some extent I still don't own even the games I bought in the 90s that have any kind of DRM, even if it's a simple "is the CD in the drive?" check. If I want to make a copy, perhaps because the original is getting somewhat degraded and I'm worried about one more scratch finally breaking it entirely, I have to circumvent the DRM or I'll no longer be able to play it.
If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing! Love you YEA!
BOOM!
My words exactly
ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH
that's new
Louder for the folks in the back.
Technically,, even physical games you don't own actually own, (kinda) if it's a physical copy, and a live service, publisher or studio can easily just discontinue the service, not allowing you play at all.
The publisher owns the game.
You're basically just buying a physical key to have access to it till it closes.
I mean, it's pretty obvious since Ubisoft took games away from us; games that WE paid for.
Yes! Support Stop Killing Games to fight ubisoft and their thievery!
wE NEED TO TELL GOVTS THAT COMPANIES NEED TO FORCE GIVE GAMES 4 OWNERSHIP AND aLWAYS HAVE HAVE A PLAYABLE OPTION OFFLINE mode WHEN SUPPORT STOPS.
asking for governments to force indefinite software licenses, and making it possible to use forever even if it relies on external resources... sounds like government overreach to me.
@@AyaWetts wow imagine if consumers had any rights at all, the world would collapse! Go lick that boot somewhere else.
@@AyaWetts Corporate overreach is a much bigger issue and government is how you keep that in check. It's not impossible to purchase a piece of software and have it indefinitely available. That's kind of how software worked before the internet. It was just on the customer to make sure the media it was housed on stayed in good condition or that it was properly backed up. That doesn't have to change with the digital era as GOG has demonstrated. Even if a piece of software depends on an external resource, if the company no longer intends to have that external resource available they should have to provide the details so that it can be independently recreated. I don't get why people feel the need to run defense for corporations that just see you as an opportunity to exploit for wealth.
With every further action taken against consumers, piracy becomes more justified and on a larger scale
I'm even becoming sick of drm that impacts actual paying customers, and you what doesn't have drm? The pirated versions.
It's been justified for nearly 20 years. They just lied to you, until when there's really nothing you can do anymore. You've not owned a single game you bought in the past 16 years, read the various terms or end user agreements, if you see the words Limited License, guess what! Not your game!
My dude this is a thing on all mediums since cassette era. Gamers simply never read the EULA. Not saying that this is right though.
The Denuvo virus is 90% of why I hear people take a ship and sail the high seas.
DRM is a majority of the time a frame rate KILLER.
So why pay for an inferior product?
Instead of "buy" it should clearly say "rent".
That is why I buy my games on GOG when I can. Those offline installers are exactly what I want to see from every digital storefront
GOG is still lying that they offer true ownership. Because true ownership includes the right to sell.
Also, Steam is not requiring their version of game to have any DRM, including Steam's own. Some games can be just taken from Steam library and ran without Steam. It is 100% up to developers/publishers.
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue Yong. It's one of the subjects I am most passionate about, and I always find it weaselly when people try to point out that even physical media or GOG grants a "license" rather than ownership as if this isn't anything more than a meaningless misdirection. In reality it is functionally equivalent to ownership whether we call it that or not, and that's all that really matters. I don't know why people are so opposed to the idea of actually owning the things they buy. Stop defending these companies.
That's the Steam cult for you. These folks are the worst examples of corporate bootlickers I've ever seen in my life.
"better" is not the same as "good"
Just because GOG is providing offline installer for now, doesn't mean they will continue to do that in the future, some GOG offline installer doesnt even work well on some version of Windows. Remember inflation exists and as long as it exists, enshitification will happen one way or another.
@@lycanwarrior2137what steam cult? go ahead and read the gog tos and eula it’s the same every ducking piece of software used the same lincense system. since decades ago go ahead and read any nes era disk all of the are a lincense too every piece of software used lincense a you never owned the game you owned the plastic of the disc not the content
@@francisquebachmann7375 Well OK cool, until that day comes we'll worry about it then. I don't know what people are wanting or expecting here. There's never going to be a service that is guaranteed to exist in perpetuity as it was since its inception. But the great thing about this model as it works now is I don't have to feel tied to the service or hold any loyalty if anything does go wrong down the road. As long as I have my offline installers, I can just take my business elsewhere. That's not the case with other services that force many of your games to be tied to a client/login, and if you want to keep accessing them, you have to keep that service installed and in use.
Ignoring the issues with digital is what led us to problems like this and the ps5 pro
People always come to news like this to say how the solution is buying physical media, but remember that no, physical media nowadays is often a lie, just a fancy digital purchase, because:
- The box only has a digital code to download the game.
- There's a disc, but it only has a few files, the actual game must be downloaded and the disc is only a key.
- Sometimes, only parts of the game are available on disc, you can play without internet, but not the full game.
- You can play the game without internet with just a disc, but not the good version of the game, because at launch, the game is full of problems and you need to download a patch later or there's a patch since day 1.
- Sometimes, the patch is so big that you are almost downloading the whole game.
- You still need to connect to the internet to buy and download DLC.
- Online play is a vital part of the game, if servers close, you can still play offline, but you will have just a small slice of what the game used to be.
- Playing online requires constant updates to the most recent version.
- Many games are online-only, require a constant connection to the internet, even on single-player, and to make things worse, the servers often close, making your physical copy a paperweight.
If I didnt have a computer without a disc reader I would argue for the disc bit. But playing offline should be the norm with online beeing a secondary option. You wait bout 2 years after a release so everything is patched, added and complete as it should been on launch, with all content there.
I own many games and they all come complete on disc. I would much rather own a vanilla version of the game thsn be at the mercy of the publisher.
I hate how companies are selling you collector's edition with a DIGITAL CODE.
This absolutely sucks.
But also I think it's hopefully not all of this and just greedy companies using this as a means to get money into their already-filled pockets.
Bingo. And how long has it been this way? At least 10 years.
It was always like this, it was always written in that wall of text that no one reads and clicks "I agree".
The only thing that changed is that now, Steam has to make that clear.
THANK YOU! SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY PAID ATTENTION! I've been screaming about this for over 16 years! You have no idea how nice it is to see that someone ELSE took it upon themselves to know the truth.
not clear, less muddy, but still cloudy enough to get by unoticed.
I find it interesting that it took this long for this topic to come to the forefront. It's been like this for...decades. This isn't new at all.
@@Ghostofrandysavage actually, the one time it was made clear, that game got review bombed for "being too much"
@@Ghostofrandysavage You dont need a law degree to understand how to read TOS. You just need patience. The words stated there are common words.
Laws and prices are going to have to change if I'm paying full price and own nothing.
If i cant own it am not buying it
@Marcustheseer preach it! I'm going back to buying physical media. Anything i like (Vox Machina, SM2, Elden Ring, etc) is now a part of my collection.
You will own nothing and be happy : WEF
I remember a while ago, i think it was Gabe Newell that said it, that if Steam ever goes down or bust, youll be able to download all your games with no DRM. I may be misremembering.
Yes. He said they will tell everyone. Give out universal steam key. So there no drama on your account. And you have think said 3 months to download any of your purchases.
In short anything downloaded from steam will be playable too anyone with a steam universal key.
So it will be a mad dash to download whatever you have. And tons of us would torrent out and in each other's keys. Making pretty muching any game at that time illegal freeware till it gets fully scrubbed. Which never works.
Would it not be beneficial to say this publicity regardless of whether you were planning to do it or not just to boost consumer trust
@@MrKBS12 they don't need to. There is a ki ll switch in the code that removes the drm off all steam games if the servers are disabled.
@@BrandonDenny-we1rw Source?
@@zid9611 I'd like a source for this as well.
The reason GOG still mentions a license is because when you purchase a game, even back in the SNES days, you didn't all of a sudden OWN super Mario and could make a sexual or a movie of it. You purchased a perpetual license that granted you perpetual use of the game you purchased.
GOG does the same in the digital world. Whereas other seem to offer you a license that is limited in time, scope etc but without letting the customer know in what ways.
In the e-book sphere, if all of a sudden a publisher becomes some “I know what is better than you and are the moral authority for saving humanity” and decides that Dr. Seuss is racist so they are going to ban all his books. They can remove that e-book from one’s device and than 6 months later resell those books because NOW they deemed them okay. The consumer is than forced to buy it a second time and there is no consequences for the e-book seller from their actions.
In regards to licensing, Amazon already did this to it’s customers when they lost the license to sell “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas.” In the end it worked out, mostly, but it caused enough concern for digital content.
Paying 70 dollars for a license to use. They have truly lost their minds.
This is why it’s so important to own physical games, music, movies so if I were you, collect as much physical media as much as possible before it gets worse world wide.
What about games not available physically? What about games that require download of additional assets for the game to work?
There is also a problem with physical is that once you lose the console you can play it for shit. Its just a box covered in dust
The problem is for pc users disk drives are a thing if the past and most physical copies only have a digital code in console users are fine for now but eventually they'll get less and less honestly its a sad time
Physical is just as, if not worse, then digital
For one, what happens when the update servers go down? Have fun playing Cyberpunk 1.0
What about cases like Elden Ring, where the discs were printed so early in development that the 1.0 build on the disc is a updated version of the technical network test with MANY unfinished quests and even missing weapons and full on bosses
You can't collect new games, these new games are all digital there is no collecting there.
What I would like to see after this is digital version of games are cheaper in general than their physical versions, since digital doesn't have to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
You will then see that current price will stay for digital and physical will get even more expensive :)
As an old gamer, I miss the documentation, maps, reference cards and other types of media included in games before the internet cheapened the world. Nothing like a game telling you to stop and go 'online' to read the documentation or close the game so you can use the PC to read the instructions/whatnot on the same screen. Lazy.
If they did that they would stop making physical copies altogether as nobody would pay $60+ for a physical copy when they can pay $20 for a digital copy. The exception being collectors but considering the insane prices they pay for things anyways (a million dollars for a super mario 64 sealed cart?) they don't count.
Price parity for countries like Australia for digi purchases would be appreciated too. The old reason, cost of shipping, no longer exists but the higher price point sure as hells does.
@@Bethgael You do get that you're currency exchange rate has something to do with the price difference as well right? As well as import tax & other regulatory costs. Yes even for digital goods/services.
It's been in the t.o.s. agreements for so long. Ages ago someone pointed it out to me in the earlt iTunes agreements. Maybe we can start working on simplifying those things next so people can read and understand what the money they spend gets them.
kinda feel like pirating will get even bigger😅
Good.
Depends on how affordable they are... in my country games arent affordable at all.. i only bought 3 games, arma 3 asetto corsa and valheim. For 9, 1 and 5 dollars.. i pirate almost evwry other game i've played.. if its affordable even pirates like myself do buy the games
Good. Screw these greedy corporations
🏴☠
if this is how paying for a game works, we as consumers deservw to know the EXACT length of the "liscense" we are buying. imagine renting a car, and you ask how long the rental options are, and they say "oh just whenever we decide you cant use it anymore". that should be ILLEGAL.
That's easy: your license lasts as long as Steam grants you a subscription to that license. If Steam allows that subscription to lapse for any reason(de-listing of a game, kicking a developer off their platform, etc.) your license...and your game goes away. I expect within the next five to ten years, a massive purging of Steam's outdated catalog of games, with this being the warmup for it.
@@Khasym im not super knowledgeable about consumer rights laws in america but havinf an ambiguous length of a subscription cant be legal can it? surely there has to be some sort of time frame alotted for the gaurenteed subscription of a liscense. otherwise people would never subscribe to anythinf for any reason. i would be shocked if its legal to sell someone something with only the promise that "at some point in the future" your product WILL be taken away
@@Khasym What are you huffing? Steam doesn't remove games from your account when they're delisted or the developer goes defunct.
@@BloodDripss That's why Steam says something like this in all their updates now, "If you don't agree to these terms, we respect your decision. You will no longer be able to use your Steam account for playing games, and can deactivate your account by contacting our support team."
Steam doesn't MAKE you use their service....but if you CHOOSE to continue using it, you MUST agree to their terms. You can't pick and choose what you'll accept from Steam: it's all or nothing.
@@NicholasBrakespear Not YET. They couldn't do it BEFORE, because you still OWNED your games under the law. This change actually came two years ago. As the war in Ukraine heated up, I opted to go buy "This War of Mine" from Steam, to lend a little support to 11-
Bit Studios, a Ukranian based developer. When I went to authorize payment, I saw a forced prompt to read Steam's UPDATED TOS before I finished. That's where I saw I wasn't BUYING This War of Mine, I was being SUBSCRIBED to it. That's when I found the following(this may have changed with more updates, but this is what I found in 2022:
2. LICENSES ⏶
A. General Content and Services License
"Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). =This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that INCLUDES the license.= The Content and Services are licensed, NOT sold. Your license confers NO title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet."
Because you are not an owner, you have no rights to KEEP your games on Steam's service. Because Steam sells you a subscription, not a license, they have the power to end your subscription to a game, terminating your access TO it. Remember, they sold you a subscription to a LICENSE, they didn't sell you a LICENSE itself.
That's why I expect a purge of Steam's content in the next few years. There's still all the shovelware from Steam Greenlight on the servers. Valve's preparing to dump the content that isn't making money, and will give an indifferent shrug to anyone who complains. Hell, this has been going down on the PSN for years, and Google did it with their audio section a few years back. Why is Steam suddenly the company everyone can trust?
Steam is convenient and really cheap. And this is the reason for that. You're just paying for access. It's not "yours". I don't hate Steam but if investing on external HDDs and SSDs don't bother you, GOG is always a good alternative. Much like Steam, there's frequent sales and if you are diligent enough, youll get good deals very often. Their offline installers are great
There are actually a ton of games that are DRM free and you can just put them from the steam folder to a flash drive for storage.
Steam is going to be around for a long time so I'm not worried at all.
Hope this will trickle to other digital storefronts, And ultimately, Lead to us being able to truly purchase games.
Only time will tell. Physical or digital, it should still be something.
Thats impossible, they cant force a company create products in a specific model.
the next best thing i can think of. Mandatory refund if we lose acess to a game.
I can see the licensing for games and suff for live service games, and online mmos etc.
digital media used to be a form of CONVIENENCE. Back when I had a 360, I installed Oblivion because it was just easier to swap games instead of going and swapping discs.
If I don't own games, Piracy isn't stealing.
Hell, physical copies are NOT safe either, considering EA disabled installing SPORE (game from 2008) from a physically disk, the disks install onto your computer but even with the product key, you cannot access the game. You have to redeem the code on the EA installer to get a digital copy..
You can get all of the spore games for cheap on GOG.
@crystalwater505 oh i know, but my point is, even physical copies are not safe. When EA has already shown that they'll just disable your discs from installing and being playable.
@@BigDaddyD807 Good thing they can't disable their games from PS1, PS2, PSP and Xbox OG consoles. Especially since these games were from decades ago too.
@BigDaddyD807 I call bullshit. Games in 2008 didn't work like they do now where its contents could be altered via the internet. In order for EA to do that with a game from 2008 the functionality would've had to be on the disc when it shipped. And I'm not positive about the details, but I'm pretty sure even now game updates just alter the version of the game that's stored digitally on the SSD that the disc is needed to access, not the contents of the disc directly.
@HunterStiles651 pulled from google.
Spore is no longer available as a disc, it is only available as a digital download in Origin or Steam. A disc version is no longer supported by EA. You'd have to buy the digital version!
Physical discs no longer work.
Steam is how i ethically pirate games, dont care if i dont own the game on steam ive got it downloaded. just happy to pay the devs once
If you've paid for the game you aren't pirating it
@@kityhawk2000 i pirate first, if i like the game ill buy it on steam to support the devs. what bit didnt you understand lmao
@vepeu lol that wasn't clear in your first comment
That how it always been, even with physical media. It always says you don't own copy, you purchased licensed to use xyz under conditions and terms. It would either be during installation or on the first launch. And always include something like terms can change without your approval, license can be revoked and we also kinda don't have to support it.
Literally nothing has changed with things becoming digital. Only anti-copy and anti-priacy protection methods became more advanced.
You can still download all the steam games to physical disk for storage for ease of access and safe keeping. In fact that what I do, with my old NAS.
The biggest threat to you gaming library is live services, that require you to be always online, always on their server. And second is cloud gaming.
Exactly. It amazing people didn't know this.
*_LONG LIVE THE HIGH SEAS, MY FELLOW SAILORS!!!_*
The physical purchases that need to download something to play them is completely false. I've not have internet for a couple years because of financial issues and every physical game i bought i was able to put it in my ps5 and play it. There were glitchs yes, but i was able to play the game i bought fully lol. Only the online only part of the games dont work because obviously you needed internet for it "but obviously i only cared about the solo story open world offline mode of games."
Right? I've been playing games offline too so my friends wont know im on. I've played every solo ps5 games like elden ring and sparking zero
@@animegeek3109 thank you!!!! Exactly!! All these ignorant people are just making the problem worse by believing that when it's only a small percentage of games that require online. If more people actually held the damn line, we could avoid a future where gaming becomes a subscription service, and no one owns anything. It's so dumb
Thats one of the reasons why i play 99% of my games on ps5 despite having a beefy pc.
"I've not have Internet for a couple of years..." well it's really impressive that you can write comments on a TH-cam video with no Internet buddy. Did you send Yong a letter instead 😂😂😂😂
@@kityhawk2000I've personally not had home internet for the last 6 months. Even today, rn... and guess how I'm able to write comments on TH-cam w no internet?... My phone. They were likely stating that they don't actually pay for an internet provider. But when in doubt, common sense prevails
One of the main reasons I primarily buy from Steam is the regional pricing. As someone from South Africa, buying games on Steam that have regional pricing cost half (sometimes less) the price than if I had to buy from GoG or any other retailer.
Having said that, it might be time to bite the bullet and start supporting GoG a lot more.
Other question is "Why are we paying full price if we don't own it!?" In an industry that has day-one DLC, pre-order bonuses for paying extra, and day-one season passes how are they not making enough??? How is this anything but milking people's wallets????
I am tired of seeing discussions around other people looking at this passively like "it is what it is" mentality that absolutely needs to change.
Who cares, get back to work!
That is why I always prefer GOG over Steam. When a game is being released on Steam and GOG, I 100% always pick up the GOG version.
It’s the most dogs**t thing I’ve ever heard. You don’t own the product u pay for. Than pirating should be legalized worldwide.but illegal to share the knowledge of how to pirate things.
That's why im limiting buying games online because I hate how they trying to overcharge us when were not playing games were done with. They mind as well give us refund back
@@zahirecoates same, I was the type of guy that bought most games the launch day, now I’m just wishlisting them and waiting for a discount. Sometimes just not buying it at all.
this is how software has been handled for decades... long before digital stores. You just are paying for the license to use the software.
To be honest they should change the wording from purchase to lease since purchase to most people implies you own it not you have permission to play it till the devs decide you can't.
That is the wrong word... you are buying a license, you are not leasing one. You are not buying or renting the game... just a license on how you can access/use/play it.
Agreed, should say "buy licence"
Ouch i did not even notice that , thanks for sharing this.
Think of the GOG offline installer as a game's physical medium (ie a disc, cartridge, etc) and the game content itself as the license.
And this is why I started shopping on GoG years ago.
TH-cam have not shown your videos in my feed for a long time and I had to search myself
Omg I freaking LOVE GOG's response. It's the straight up truth, without undue embellishment. I play my GOG games when the internet's out.
I can also play my Steam games without Internet. Just turn on Offline Mode, done.
GOG being cheeky while in fact they themselves also only sells Licenses to games. The difference is only that GOG limits themselves to DRM-free games.
And the offline installer that GOG gives out? Now you need twice the storage to keep the installer and the game proper. Steam installs the game for you so you don't have to keep the installer. And if you want to keep the game? Just zip the correct folder under steamapps\common.
@@PanduPoluansome games don't work after a while. For example sonic frontiers, since it requires Internet for it's denuvo crap.
if its renting then pricing should go down, funny how only piracy allows real ownership.
Steam takes a 30% cut and prohibits people who sell on their platform to charge much less elsewhere, devs have to price their games to account for that. So valve is inflating the price of digital games everywhere as well, even on platforms like GOG that let you own the software. They could cost a quarter of what they do now.
@@hotworlds huh, didnt know that bit of info. yeah piracy seems like best way to go forward.
@@hotworlds The price parity """clause""" is exclusively for Steam keys and nothing else. It doesn't affect prices on other storefronts.
serieously.. sometimes people need to just take a step back and take a look at the whole picture. software was never 'owned' beyond the disc with the installer. with online services they just enabled themselfes to have more control.. thats why I avoided steam etc. for as long as possible. the games on my ubisoft account are all free games from a pc magazine
when microsoft live services were abandonen a lot of titles were like torchlight II, batman arkham city etc. were updated (for free) to make us of steamworks. I only spend money I am OK with loosing anyway. but to this day steam has never disappointed me. unlike rockstar who ripped gta IV in pieces because of licences that expired for them
Tbh I don't really have that much fears about it because the very fact you have the data on the disk *in* *your* *full* *control* means all just that has to be done is bypassing the any of the digital lock crap. Which no matter what any law says about that, is a thing that can be done, and is done every time.
Now all Steam has to do is just be GOG imho. And this goes away just like a Thanos snap.
That and with how emulators and cracked version exist it shouldn't be too hard to put two and two together i think while old games might vanish there will probably still be cracked versions that will live on in shady corners I mean its out on the Internet its permanently there
I think the issue is that eventually, potentially everything could be streamed. Ideally we nip this in the bud before we get to that point, cause if everything is streamed AND this current license "renting" method is still in play, things could get disastrous.
Since PS3 era, discs have keys signed into it. The manufacturer and/or publisher can lock you from it remotely, and this happened on Switch carts. In worst case they can use your drive to burn crap on the disc itself.
@@knivy6160 The license 'renting' method has been how Books have worked since copyright law first became recognizably similar to what we now have, for reference.
The difference is that modern technology allows the licensor to actively sabotage the licensee's ability to actually do the thing that was the entire point in the license in the first place, where as prevously the physical reality of the world made it impossible to do that without commiting multiple physical real world crimes... or at least engaging in a lot of paperwork at a very impractical scale.
When it comes to physical media as the correct way to preserve ownership Rights and games, to the people saying:
"what about the unifinished 1.0 version on disk?" - *Games should be a verified functioning and almost bug-free gold launch version on disc, on launch.*
"what about discs/media which doesn't have the whole game or any of the game on disc?" - *Every physical media launch should be required to have the full game on disc/media.*
"what about online requirements and DRM for single player games" - *Every single player game should be playable offline, period.*
*Until the above are guaranteed in law, piracy via cracked and repacked games, and cracked DRM, will be **_THE_** way to guarantee ownership over games, and long term storage.* 💯
If your ownership rights revolve around a single copy on physical media... you have very few rights at all. Unless you really want a return to the "good old days" of SecuROM where you're not allowed to make backup copies, then physical media is not the "correct way to preserve ownership rights and games"; the correct way is to ensure that the license - that you were always buying, even in the case of physical copies - protects you and enshrines your continued use of the software.
@@NicholasBrakespear *Which is what GOG does.*
I have people in this comment section arguing that "if you aren't buying the entire intellectual property created by multiple companies over the course of years with millions of dollars" then "you aren't buying a copy of the game". 🤦
Yes, physical copies had a license agreement on the back of the case or in the game.
The whole reason GOG is better than every other storefront, when it comes to ownership, is because no government, company, or person can revoke your access to your copy.
This is how it was with physical media for the overwhelming majority of it's lifespan.
Licensing laws are the way to enshrine ownership Rights, whether it's physical, digital, or both.
@@LukeHimself Yes, but if you peruse the comments you'll see that the vast majority of people don't know that what they're buying is a license... and don't know what they mean by "ownership" except in the vaguest of terms.
And it is in the vaguest of terms that the most exploitative terms can be defined, covertly. That's why things degenerated so far in the first place; new generations of gamers, raised on "dad's collection of games" etc, had no idea what it was they were actually buying and the rights that should have afforded them.
I mean really, look at the state of things. I had a debate with one person a few days back who was insisting that "licenses" were a thing that only applied when you were accessing software on someone else's machine.
People just don't know, and that's why they get screwed over.
@@NicholasBrakespear That's all facts..
I wrote a little more, but erased it for brevity.
People allowed these corporations to erase physical media, and the golden era of hardware it would've brought with it.
They allowed phones to become "leased" items you buy, and think you own, but you can't even repair the thing without legal risk, the same thing goes for cars, and other "owned things".
Working on cars is becoming a nightmare, electric cars make it the true "leased car no matter what".
This all ties in with the "Right to repair", and
I guess it also ties in with "you will own nothing and be happy".
So we all heard the "If buying isn't owning" line but, frankly, now it more feels like "Selling digital media is stealing some time down the line"
This doesn't make sense. Why can't we own something? How is this possible? Why would anyone agree to this?
every form of software works like this??? since decades ago? go ahead and read the eula of any nes era game they say the same shit you don’t own any form of software you own the plastic of the disc of the hardrive and have a license to used it just like books you don’t own the content you own the paper of music of movies of every fucking piece of software since the 70s
I made the decision to buy all of my games from GOG thirteen years ago, and never looked back. I rarely spend money on Steam. Only when absolutely necessary.
I guess this is a very small step to the right direction, but that disclosure is in fine print on the side of the Steam's purchase page so it can easily be missed.
They need to make it more apparent, because I guess that most people don't read such small prints after they've been using Steam for years now, if not decades.
I know a lot of people here are from the US, but at least for us Australians this isn't really an issue because no matter what Valve says, they must follow our consumer protection laws to operate in the country, which protect us from bs like this and provides official channels for lawsuits if Valve/Steam were to violate them.
If you want to sell in Aus, everyone plays by the same rules. No exceptions.
I would of signed but it was restricted.
The rules are the same.. you agreed to the EULA when you knowingly purchased a physical media with it printed on the box. It's there since the 80s.
Incoming scam, pay 70 bucks for a license and a week later. Game removed. You don't own it. Why would they feel the need to run a server after they got your money. You don't own anything, so the game doesn't exist for you.
$70/month is their end goal
They would be sued if they actually did that. “Unfair” contracts are illegal regardless of if it was signed. No rumplestiltskins contracts allowed.
Repack the games without Steam DRM and save it in your server/drive.
This goes for console games too. Support your local game stores and back up those cartridges/discs.
You will own nothing and you will be happy 🙃
Not even your own lives...
You're referring to the WEF agenda. The same one that the democrats in office are pushing.
The majority of people who liked your comment probably don't even know what that is in reference to.
@@Ge0rge_0rwell nice name 😂 😉
"Eat ze bugs!"
Took long enough for such a law to come into existence!
It's sad the majority of people only understood the repercussions of digital purchases only recently.
I wonder if this would bring a boom to physical game purchases? Or will laziness win out and no consumer habits change.
I literally own thousands of games just on steam. I do not have the physical space to house physical copies for all of them. It's cool to have physical copies of stuff I really like but it really isn't practical anymore to have physical copies of everything I own.
and then ur game gets scratches. doesnt work anymore.
what now?
@theodis8134 - I'm in a similar boat, my collection is in the hundreds, but still I understand you completely.
You know you can just sell the games for on ebay. Many can be sold for 50 - 200% of the price you paid for them. With the odd one going for more or less. This is the true value of ownership.
It may be a hassle, but the option's always there. I plan to sell my CD games some time.
Then Steam needs to reimburse me for every penny I spent with them for every grandfathered game prior to this "law" of licensing. They need to pay me, or guarantee me those games prior to "licensing law" will always have access to either on a forever server or time enough to back them up with NO DRM! They can have every Game I bought back then if I don't own them, but they need to pay me every dime, no matter how long I played them. Piracy is not stealing then, when they stole from me, when they guaranteed me access. That's all I've heard for decades, they will be available to me if Steam goes under. If they take my games, I'll just snake it, end of story and go that way in the future. The entire reason I don't pirate... is steam... Gabe. WTF?
One thing a US court has no influence on european or south american trade policies and political steering on economical senses, meaning the case is ineffective beyond their borders.
As for europe i believe there was a law that states everyone owns their product.
This makes me miss game cartridges and CDs. Way back when before Steam was so massive that was a concern we all had 'do we own the game'. They used the words 'buy' 'own' 'b2p' and others consistently in their communications to quell concerns. I don't have proof, I just have memories, I'm sure i'm not alone in that.
Yeah it was much better back in the days when... you weren't allowed to create backups because the software was infested with SecuROM or other copy protection systems, so if your disc broke you were screwed.
@@NicholasBrakespear lol yeah "backups" that you'd sell to your friends at school and people talk like piracy is some new thing😂😂😂
yeah then ur game breaks.
now u either buy a new game. or you are effed... because where can u still get a brand new fresh copy of say : pokemon fire red.
i dont think any store exists where u can just waltz in and buy one of those.
What happened to video games man… everyday I get more and more discouraged in buying any games at all
then dont buy/lend games... just pirate shit.
Dude, its common sense that if the software or games you buy relies on a network server just to access it, means you don't really own it. You think its only bad now but its been this way since 2004, you're just ignorant about the End user license agreement and TOS for every software/games you buy.
@@francisquebachmann7375 I was just referring to the good ol days you bought a game popped it into your Ps2 and played it I’ve always been a physical game collector
@@miciso666 true
Its always been like that for years. They just put it where people can actually read it.
Steam is nice enough not to remove games from your library that are delisted in store. Hope it stays that way.
I was saving up for ps5 pro. Then seeing what it comes with and what it could do. I change my mind. So I decided to save up for a "Steam Deck Oled" now I see this?!? Just 2 more pay days I could get it, "not anymore"... what do we work for now, when nothing belongs to you.... thx for the heads brotha👊
You can still buy it just pirate your games that simple.
Don't even think about buying this digital only crap
Every game we buy is a license, we don't own any intellectual property even if we buy a DMR-free physical copy. The problem with this law and with the way is portrayed in news (even like this one) if that it is never especifies which license and, in the cases it is, is always full of legal jargon that makes them unuseful. Example: a license that grants lifetime downloads, grants access to the game, downgradable to any version since you bought it and non-removable by publisher as long as the service exists is an OK license; meanwhile a license that allows the publisher to removed sold copies from the platform is not. The fact that Transformers games can't be bought from Steam any longer, while can be played and downloaded by owners (licensees), is not the same case as purchased films removed from libraries.
This is a totally different issue. You don't own the IP or distribution rights of a book if you buy it but you still have it forever. It is your property. If someone steals it there are legal avenues to get it back. You don't have to worry about the bookstore coming back and saying "Sorry, we closed we're taking this back now". Buying on GOG is like buying from a bookstore, buying from Steam is like paying full price to be allowed to read the book in the store until the day they close or get rid of the book.
I didn't know about any of this, as I got into PC gaming two years ago. Thank god I bought games on GOG rather than Steam, even if Steam was more popular. Funny enough I have a steam account but I don't have a single game there.
Devs on steam can opt out of DRM content which allows you to copy the files directly. More of a dev thing than steam imo
Yup, it's maddening that nobody seems to be aware of this - it was always the choice of the publisher/developer to use Steam's DRM and to not offer an alternative executable for pure offline.
At least now we would know before we purchase a game
Damn GOG being cheeky af XD
I usually read the EULA before I install. And I usually agree. What this does is make the small text bigger now.
@@davidlanceescandor1310 You can't decline them, or else you'll be unable to play the game.
I know we're buying a license, but if companies could actually revoke your purchased games, that's going to be a big deal for many of us.
@@davidlanceescandor1310 You literally don't have a choice in the matter period. You either accept the EULA or you aren't allowed to play x game. You pay 70 dollars for a game that requires you to accept a eula to play and you don't accept, you now have a 70 dollar brick in your library. Enjoy.
@@maverickrx8 You buy a license... the EULA is an End User License Agreement... its what you are agreeing to about your license. If you do not agree to it, you can legally, and by the EULA, get your license purchase refunded.
Now its time to sail the high seas. Thank you for the free promotion Valve
Bruh i know this since years before. And that's why i stopper my steam game buying spree long ago. Cuz if i not own my bought game why bother buying it digitally on full price.
Cuz if steam goes under and poof your game is gone also.
This is why I will never buy games that are always online and if I could buy a game on consoles it will be physical copies.
Read the EULA. Its been this way since I can remember. Even way back when the game booklets came in the game cases. There is specific verbiage stating you are purchasing a single License for Home use. This specifically was meant to legally stop gaming pubs from charging to play games or people setting up gaming tents at swap meets and charge people per X minute periods.
After so many threads of telling Ponies who were trying to wave the "I own my games on PS" banner and even screenshotted the End User LICENSE Agreement that spells out nobody OWNS these games when they pay for a License to play them.
*looks at CD and DVD copies of games that actually contain the game* As a bonus to actually owning the copy, they had nifty artwork too...
Owning a "copy" was irrelevant. You still bought a license to use the software; that's what you actually owned.
@@NicholasBrakespear No, you purchased a good. It's your property and you can use it forever, like a book. You don't own IP or distribution but you can use the software forever. It's a totally different issue.
Sail the high seas, my boys!
I just went to check. And the warning you talk about doesn't come when I try to buy a game on steam here in Denmark. So I think they have only chosen to add the warning to customers affected by this new law. And not globally.