"Imagine if enemies were highlighted with the color of spring grass" great idea I'll use that, seems like the sort of off putting subtly that would make a game feel uncomfortable and different.Just that color change could make a game feel that little bit more surreal. Maybe a collection of mechanical and presenationary juxtapositions could make a game that feel morally wrong and interesting to explore.
+thatthinker It actually would be interesting if you did that later in the story, where characters that were established to be friends are suddenly turning on you and attacking you. You can still attack, but the cursor just never changes.
Alice: Madness Returns ROCKED the world being a symbol of the self and a person's shames. The d progression into the dollhouse level as Alice realizes the horrors that she has observed but has not acted upon is terrifying as well as fun to go through.
I got an idea! How about in a horror game, ONLY ONCE! Right before you fight the final boss, the arrow pointing to your objective should start to flicker, then turn off when you approach it. As you get closer, the screen slowly blurs, and your character slows down, until the point of him being motionless. Then, the boss approaches, but, for some reason, the "controller is off" notification is in the screen, but the game isn't paused. The boss hasn't noticed yet. You desperately struggle with your controller , but it just won't turn on. Suddenly, the boss notices. He starts to briskly pace at you, you feel as all hope is lost, when suddenly, the controller starts to work again. It flashes and rumbles to signify that your back online. Your character's speed is shortly increased, and you narrowly escape. As you run away, the boss losses sight, and you are safe. The objective arrow turns back on onto a different location, and the game continues as before.
+Jakob A That could work amazingly but there is one catch to it. They would have to do this to some degree through the entire game. Like have the objective arrow flickering be a semi common occurrence or have the controls "bug out" once or twice before this event but at random occurrences to let the players know that this is something that can happen. So when it does with the final boss the thought isn't to blame their hardware but rather to think "oh not now! not the time!" It would allow the player to know what is happening and let them know that this is something that was out of their control for the time being.
+Kori Kitsune Actually, what if instead of a morality meter, you had something along the lines of a determination meter? It would take a LOT of work for developers probably, but depending on the choices that you make through the game you gain or lose determination/the will to keep going on. Like the character has an avoidant personality to begin with, but then you're thrown into supernatural shenanigans and they're REALLY not feeling it. When the character's will isn't strong enough, your control as the player starts to lessen. Of course, there would have to be some scripted parts (like the boss fight) but it could happen randomly through the game as well. Also, sorry for replying on a month-old comment.
You know this leads me to ask, are films like Alien or Saw more scary to a non-Western audience in the same way Silent Hill or Fatal Frame are scarier to a non-Eastern audience? Does the same concept of the Other apply when one flips the coin?
TheRezro I think you missed the point of my question. I wasn't asking if those specific films counted as horror, I was asking if Western horror media *in general* had the sense of the other to a Japanese viewer/player/reader, that Japanese or other East Asian horror has to Western audiences as proposed by the EC team.
TheRezro Well I think that also depends on the person. Surely not everyone in Japan knows of the Voodoo origins of zombies anymore than everyone in England does. Just as well though, there might be some who can trace the origins of vampire myths back to before Bram Stoker's Opus. At the same time, I'm sure there are plenty of Otaku's in the States that understand the Shinto origins of Fatal Frame's mythos as much as there are people who it's completely alien to them.
***** "Worried?" No. "Zombies" as they exist in pop culture are pretty globally understood. I was just questioning how many people in the Eastern nations know of the Vodoo origins of zombies. If you ask a random American or Englishman where the actual myth came from I'd wager you'd get the right answer about 3/5 times. In Japan or China, I'd say it's more like 2/5. That's just speculation on my part though. My point was a question if the sense of the other applies to Asiatic audiences when viewing Western horror themes and creatures as the reverse obviously does.
***** I'm not a fan of horror in general so I wouldn't really know, but I would assume so. I watched my brother play Metro and the anomalies in that were pretty nerve wracking.
Psychological horror is where the real game is at! Horror that just scares you, that startles you with surreal and impossible feats (unkillable monsters, evil magic, ghosts, etc) only get you so far. A person may be scared in the moment, but it's limited by their suspension of disbelief. They can just say, "that's not real," and there's nothing left. But when reality is the monster there is no such easy escape, and that's what makes it terrifying. It can make a person question what they know and who they are; destabilize their entire perception of reality, their very foundation. Losing your identity as a person, now that's true horror.
Johnny Aguirre SOMA was pretty creepy. The major theme attacks the nature of human consciousness and what constitutes a "life" or a "soul". The atmosphere and the story work very well towards creating a feeling of isolation, helplessness, and uncertainty.
I think that otherness is also what makes certain games that are based around the slavic areas quite interesting. Metro, Stalker, and Witcher being some obvious examples feel so foreign and dark, but really its completely understandable if we take a look at their past.
You know, about that "uncanny" section, it really shows that any other sentient (or otherwise) life that we may encounter may not look anything like what we perceive aliens to be, since we can only use what we are familiar with, like humanoid sentients, reptilian or even some based on aquatic species. We are completely unable to envision what they would look like. This seems very interesting to me. Keep up the good work, extra credits! I love the channel and always learn something new when I watch your videos!
This reminds me so much of the Uncanny Valley talk that you had Daniel, this video has been so interesting. I'm chuck scarred of horror games,but know I atleast know why. Thanks again!
another thought I have about Japanese horror is that it's often times more "random" then western horror, the victims don't get killed because they "deserved it" they do it because something evil, or at least dangerous is out there. and I think that also helps with that sustained type of horror that goes with you and leaves you wondering: is there anything I could do to stop something like that?
You know, quite a few people have lauded Amnesia: The Dark Descent for capturing the fear of death and the uncanny with the monsters with distorted faces being absolutely deadly when close. However, Amnesia also captures the character's "secret shame" with the torture rooms. The tone then changes from a desperate need for survival to a desperate need for redemption, with even opportunities to experience the tortures despite no real benefit in-game.
Stanisław Wiśniewski hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha... no... well... kinda... kingdom hearts is current like mario or final fantasy is current, its an old game that refuses to die
I really like the way they've uploaded the older video's. It's like episodes that I haven't seen in a while to tide me over until the new episode comes out. Good job Extra credits. Good job.
....this episode made me realize, i play a lot of video games. not from what they were toalking about or anything they mentioned, just there costumes, i recognized every costume from all of their halloween episodes. and even if i didn't play a few of the games, i still recognized them
Makes me think of excessive jesus symbology in movies "I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS!" - The sound the Nostalgia critic hears while watching man of steel
by the way, i love that you explore the idea of psychology in games while "dressed" as a character from one of my favorite games of all time: Psychonauts
So the Uncanny is probably the reason why creepypasta is so popular- it takes something we understand or at least are familiar with, like Majora's Mask, then turns it on its head in unsettling ways.
i disagree with the whole japanese horror games being better because of the foreign setting. most great horror games have come out of japan such as the old silent hill games. the problem is that american companies are too engrossed in things needing action and guns. sure make terrifying enemies but also give the player a machine gun to mow them all down
but having that machine gun gives you a chance to kill the monster. to be honest in my opinion at least, horror is the feeling that you are COMPLETELY helpless against the creatures of night, that no matter what you do you can't kill it. All you can do is run. which is what I loved about the old silent hill game. was that you were the guest inside the hellish world of a little girls nightmare, who tried to protect everyone and who was being used in an attempt to resurrect a demonic god. In my opinion a horror game tells a story and keeps the player amerced with an intriguing play and puzzle style. make you look for all the little things that make the game eye popping and REALLY good.
ohh i worded my comment wrong lol my bad. i meant thats what american companies do, they make the freaky enemies still but they make it all meaningless once you're able to just kill them all, its no longer horror. i agree with you, horror games need to make you feel helpless and terrified. the early silent hill games were fantastic
I'd really like to see a game of mundane, real horror. You don't need to be outlandish and inhuman to scare, in fact if you can link the fear to something that the player can see as real, that would be best. Imagine a survival horror where you're not running from demons, zombies or outlandish horrors, but say a religious cult that wants you dead. Think of Mike Myers: he wasn't an alien/demon/lovecraftian abomination, but he was scary because human and mundane as he was, he was going to kill you, and you could not stop him.
mike myers? he was a terrible horror villain. freddy was heaps more terrifying cause he got you in your dreams, cant really run from them. The evil cult thing wouldnt be a bad idea though
been done unfortunately, silent hill is basically the whole cult game. not after you specifically at first but you eventually become the target. Silent hill is an amazing game. not an amazing series but the first two games are outstanding, number three, eh. But four was a good turn about involving a different but similar cult and a different child not ellisa. horror creation has its limits in the eyes of developers, but in us, there is no end. so hopefully a developer will note this and think, "what if I create a scenario where the player scares themselves? let their imagination build the story." this kinda game would be near impossible. but if done, I would sure as hell love to try it.
When you mention the trifecta of the self, uncanny and other, my first thought is of a paper I wrote in my undergraduate studies. It was on The Sandman, a short story by German author E.T.A Hoffmann. That short story perfectly encapsulates the idea of the uncanny and the bizarre, I urge anyone interested in those topics to give it a read!
Red is also has symbolic meaning behind lust. I saw a really cool study on a nova program where they put people in rooms bathed with blue/red/white colors and asked them to signal when they thought 1 minute had passed. The people in the blue room tended to signal before a minute actually passed while the people in the red room tended to signal after 1 minute had passed. In effect, time seems slower when we are looking at red (fight or flight). It's also the color of genetalia (lust).
0:45 Which game is that monster from? It'd be very awesome if you guys did an episode on the Silent Hill mythos! Just...Try to avoid referencing the mythos/main plot past games #3/#4, since the new creative team doesn't comprehend the actual story and even contradicted their own take on Silent Hill's mechanics numerous times, and Tom Hulett is a major ass-barnacle. Though, you guys seem like big fans since you reference SH so much, so I suppose you probably already knew this. ^^'
For you guys who are curious and willing to do some reading, "uncanning" has a name. Its a phenomena called uncanny valley. It is the bio-psycological source of racism (just want to clarify that, as its true with MANY other phenomena, its still wrong besides being natural - rape, for instance, is natural) and the reason we find "high" apes and robots that are too realistic so ugly. Things that are a lot like us without being us makes us unconfortable. Aweseme video guys :D
What I would love from a video game, is that the person who you interact with during the whole game,(Your "quest giver") Sometimes when he leaves you, you will see a shadow, a shadow of the devil. It is very subtle and the whole game. And the game premise is that you are an Holy man and suppose to kill Unholy creatures, but then it turned out, it is actually the other way around.
If you guys need more Halloween ideas, you could go further into the different types of horror such as psychological horror and gore or jumpscare horror.
In case anyone wants to know, Daniel is Raz from Pyschonauts, James is Ghost Town Sora from Kingdom Hearts and Allison Is Marcus Feniz from Gears of War. Hopefully that will clear some things up.
@MrXman49O I love you. My favourite game is Amnesia, the torture rooms were genius for the games, everything came together when you have a flash back of going to that farmers house and when you find the last page of his diary. Finally you understand the story, why he feels ''broken'', why he is sorry and why he feels he needs to kill Alexander.
Uncanny is the reason I'm afraid of Toy Story. Baby Face is disturbing because he looks like a doll, but has all these freaky modifications that disturb me, such as a missing eye. It did stay with me and still does...even though I'm 15 now, I refuse to watch that movie. This is also the reason I have Distortion Pediophobia, bascically, I'm not afraid of normal looking dolls, but when they have missing eyes and overall creepy distortion, I become very afraid of them.
The baby in the Pixar short "Tin Toy" was much creepier for me. It has the design of a regular baby I suppose, but perhaps it's because of Pixar's developing art experience with digital technology at the time that something about the way it looks and moves is just... off. It definitely fits the uncanny valley perspective.
sebool112 I find Japanese culture in general to be very facinating. In any case, it was a while ago when I made the first comment. I probably don't remember what I was refering to.
my grandmother lost both legs due to infection, i feel sorry for amputees. the crazy man on the street corner with a brick in his hand, i cross the street to the other side/ turn around/ continue with self defense tactics in mind
Yeah, I think Lost Silver does the whole uncanny thing pretty well. Though nothing scary was happening, you always expect there to be something that jumps out or takes the entire screen, but it doesn't, leaving you feeling disturbed.
Not all the enemies in Silent Hill 2 represent a thing in James. The Abstract Daddy is a manifestation of Angela’s mind when her and James Worlds Overlap.
This is one of the things that make Subnautica so terrifying: The unknown. When you play it, especially for the first time, everything is unknown and alien to you. You don't know what is dangerous and what's not, though the dangerous things do tend to look dangerous.
Slenderman capitalizes on uncanny fear. It looks human, but the longer you look the less so it seems. It's surprisingly well thought out and is helped by the way we naturally would examine a person, from their stature (business man) to their face (...mannequin?) and their background (AND ARE THOSE TENTACLES!?). You also never see him harm someone, but they're assumed as good as dead, so imagination takes in and we go from a suit display model with tentacles to a deadly mysterious "Slender man".
People like me and James we seek the Uncanny/Others/Dark Shadow on games. It is a core principle of being human, we are attracted to what we find unknown or strange.
I think one western game has done "The Other"-concept well: Another World by Delphine Software. It throws the player into an unsetteling world almost instantly. Everything in the game steps along with the concept, especially if you're playing the computer versions with their lack of music in any gameplay situation.
I remember the whole color symbolism well. Rise of legend has your main faction as red fighting blue guys, and it threw me for a loop when i first played that game.
1. I learned in my one mythologies class that some older civilizations signify red as the color of life (blood) and white as the color of death (skeleton). 2. I remember feeling the effect of "the uncanny" from "The Omega Man", where the infected there continues to weird me out.
1:53 I did, and it works only in a very creepy way (taking damage and screen flashes green? Green is the color of vomit you know). I get the idea, though. It's a warning.
+Extra Credits this really helped me. You see, I want to make a game which is an commentary on depression and what it does to a person. This really helped me figured out how to apply it to my game. thank you.
5 years late, I know, but when I'd just turned 15 [and my parents thus let me play pegi 15 shooters] I wanted to play the split-screen with my younger brother. My mother didn't like the blood effect on, I think it was CoD: MW2. But we found that if you pluged the Pb & Pr leads on the Xbox 360 component HD lead into the wrong slots, the blood looked more like that blue bubblegum pop, which she didn't mind. So while Rust looked downright bizzar, it remained playable, and so [with coverage in the tutorial, and time to get used to it] the idea of a none-red danger indicator remains potentially viable. 1:25 Not that I'm sugesting we wouldn't question it the whole time, but If we want to make a player question what they're doing, marking enemies as non-red may be a start.
the whole point is how symbolism is used to cause reactions in people without even a word needing to be spoken. red is effectively the symbol for 'danger' or 'enemy' in every culture without anyone coming together and agreeing on it. it simply is because we perceive it that way. what he went through was the different ways certain symbols can be used to cause responses from our subconscious
Interestingly enough, I'd say that Spec Ops the Line applies to the "self" part. Other than what's been said in EC's Spec Ops video, everything goes full circle knowing that this game was based on the book Heart of Darkness, which in turn was well known to use the concepts of the Jungian shadow and how it's projected onto things beyond the individual.
Oh boy, as an Earthbound fan, I would love to go in depth and explain to you all the aspects of Giygas. But I'll keep it as simple as I can. First of all, have you seen it? Earthbound is so happy jolly, sometimes going very dark unexpectedly, then they finally throw the most disturbing thing at you for a final boss. And that MUSIC. Second, it's a fetus. Look up the stuff about it. Not to mention it was based off of the creator's one traumatizing event in his childhood.
I didn't know that in every multimedia and books where symbolism everywhere. I like I noticed in two games that rabbits who want to kill you are yellow and I wondered why. I recently found out that yellow is associated with madness and both rabbit are mad. In another game Gylt Emily that has a panda bear. Why not regular bear? I found out that pandas are the protector of the weak or vulnerable like Emily. It was perfect for her. It's so amazing that there are many symbolism in games.
Their costumes are: Green guy (forgot his name): Rasputin from Psychonauts. James: Halloween Town version of Sorra in Kingdom Hearts 1. Alysson: Marcus from Gears of War?
It's wierd that I haven't seen this video till now. When I heard them mention Jungian psychology and the concept of the "shadow" I expected a small call out to the Persona series.
Hm, I'd make bets that this won't be read by many, but I believe that guitar for the intro to these videos is none other than that of the Bob-Bomb world from Mario 64.
"Imagine if enemies were highlighted with the color of spring grass" great idea I'll use that, seems like the sort of off putting subtly that would make a game feel uncomfortable and different.Just that color change could make a game feel that little bit more surreal. Maybe a collection of mechanical and presenationary juxtapositions could make a game that feel morally wrong and interesting to explore.
+thatthinker This is a good idea
+thatthinker It actually would be interesting if you did that later in the story, where characters that were established to be friends are suddenly turning on you and attacking you. You can still attack, but the cursor just never changes.
+Herschal Shep so basically break the player's heart. I love it.
thatthinker
Pull an Undertale that isn't emulating Earthbound.
+Herschal Shep Undertale is based on Earthbound, is this a bad thing? It's not direct copy
Alice: Madness Returns ROCKED the world being a symbol of the self and a person's shames. The d progression into the dollhouse level as Alice realizes the horrors that she has observed but has not acted upon is terrifying as well as fun to go through.
I got an idea! How about in a horror game, ONLY ONCE! Right before you fight the final boss, the arrow pointing to your objective should start to flicker, then turn off when you approach it. As you get closer, the screen slowly blurs, and your character slows down, until the point of him being motionless. Then, the boss approaches, but, for some reason, the "controller is off" notification is in the screen, but the game isn't paused. The boss hasn't noticed yet. You desperately struggle with your controller , but it just won't turn on. Suddenly, the boss notices. He starts to briskly pace at you, you feel as all hope is lost, when suddenly, the controller starts to work again. It flashes and rumbles to signify that your back online. Your character's speed is shortly increased, and you narrowly escape. As you run away, the boss losses sight, and you are safe. The objective arrow turns back on onto a different location, and the game continues as before.
+Jakob A That idea sounds awesome
+10Tabris01 Thanks!
+Jakob A That could work amazingly but there is one catch to it. They would have to do this to some degree through the entire game.
Like have the objective arrow flickering be a semi common occurrence or have the controls "bug out" once or twice before this event but at random occurrences to let the players know that this is something that can happen. So when it does with the final boss the thought isn't to blame their hardware but rather to think "oh not now! not the time!" It would allow the player to know what is happening and let them know that this is something that was out of their control for the time being.
+Kori Kitsune But knowing would break the moment.
+Kori Kitsune Actually, what if instead of a morality meter, you had something along the lines of a determination meter? It would take a LOT of work for developers probably, but depending on the choices that you make through the game you gain or lose determination/the will to keep going on. Like the character has an avoidant personality to begin with, but then you're thrown into supernatural shenanigans and they're REALLY not feeling it. When the character's will isn't strong enough, your control as the player starts to lessen. Of course, there would have to be some scripted parts (like the boss fight) but it could happen randomly through the game as well.
Also, sorry for replying on a month-old comment.
You know this leads me to ask, are films like Alien or Saw more scary to a non-Western audience in the same way Silent Hill or Fatal Frame are scarier to a non-Eastern audience?
Does the same concept of the Other apply when one flips the coin?
TheRezro I think you missed the point of my question. I wasn't asking if those specific films counted as horror, I was asking if Western horror media *in general* had the sense of the other to a Japanese viewer/player/reader, that Japanese or other East Asian horror has to Western audiences as proposed by the EC team.
TheRezro
Well I think that also depends on the person. Surely not everyone in Japan knows of the Voodoo origins of zombies anymore than everyone in England does. Just as well though, there might be some who can trace the origins of vampire myths back to before Bram Stoker's Opus.
At the same time, I'm sure there are plenty of Otaku's in the States that understand the Shinto origins of Fatal Frame's mythos as much as there are people who it's completely alien to them.
***** "Worried?" No. "Zombies" as they exist in pop culture are pretty globally understood.
I was just questioning how many people in the Eastern nations know of the Vodoo origins of zombies. If you ask a random American or Englishman where the actual myth came from I'd wager you'd get the right answer about 3/5 times. In Japan or China, I'd say it's more like 2/5. That's just speculation on my part though.
My point was a question if the sense of the other applies to Asiatic audiences when viewing Western horror themes and creatures as the reverse obviously does.
***** Really? How so?
***** I'm not a fan of horror in general so I wouldn't really know, but I would assume so.
I watched my brother play Metro and the anomalies in that were pretty nerve wracking.
Psychological horror is where the real game is at! Horror that just scares you, that startles you with surreal and impossible feats (unkillable monsters, evil magic, ghosts, etc) only get you so far. A person may be scared in the moment, but it's limited by their suspension of disbelief. They can just say, "that's not real," and there's nothing left. But when reality is the monster there is no such easy escape, and that's what makes it terrifying. It can make a person question what they know and who they are; destabilize their entire perception of reality, their very foundation. Losing your identity as a person, now that's true horror.
do you know any good media thay does this?
Johnny Aguirre
SOMA was pretty creepy. The major theme attacks the nature of human consciousness and what constitutes a "life" or a "soul". The atmosphere and the story work very well towards creating a feeling of isolation, helplessness, and uncertainty.
Sir Mutton Chops I agree with this
EC, a series about video game narrative? Where have you been my whole life?!
+Gothos that is pretty much exactly the thought I had the day before yesterday when I discovered them
I think that otherness is also what makes certain games that are based around the slavic areas quite interesting. Metro, Stalker, and Witcher being some obvious examples feel so foreign and dark, but really its completely understandable if we take a look at their past.
1:53 I don't have to imagine it. I've played Shovel Knight.
HoodieSticks hell that goes back to spyro
Ha. You assume I have a favorite horror game! Well jokes on you because I'm a wuss :D
Relatable, have a nice day.
You know, about that "uncanny" section, it really shows that any other sentient (or otherwise) life that we may encounter may not look anything like what we perceive aliens to be, since we can only use what we are familiar with, like humanoid sentients, reptilian or even some based on aquatic species. We are completely unable to envision what they would look like. This seems very interesting to me. Keep up the good work, extra credits! I love the channel and always learn something new when I watch your videos!
This reminds me so much of the Uncanny Valley talk that you had Daniel, this video has been so interesting. I'm chuck scarred of horror games,but know I atleast know why. Thanks again!
So I think most people caught on to who Dan's costume was, but did anybody notice that the snowmen at 00:25 are re-enacting a scene from rejected?
+Josh Barrett I DID!
That Romanian traffic sign though. xD
_cetateni turmentati_
5:01 "The viewer is left Disturbed" *Puts David Draiman´s photo*
really loved that detail!!! xD
another thought I have about Japanese horror is that it's often times more "random" then western horror, the victims don't get killed because they "deserved it" they do it because something evil, or at least dangerous is out there.
and I think that also helps with that sustained type of horror that goes with you and leaves you wondering: is there anything I could do to stop something like that?
I LOVE the Dutch angle that you did for the shot of Pyramid Head chasing James. That looks SO good!
You know, quite a few people have lauded Amnesia: The Dark Descent for capturing the fear of death and the uncanny with the monsters with distorted faces being absolutely deadly when close. However, Amnesia also captures the character's "secret shame" with the torture rooms. The tone then changes from a desperate need for survival to a desperate need for redemption, with even opportunities to experience the tortures despite no real benefit in-game.
Is James wearing Sora's Halloweentown outfit at 0:23?
Yep. As soon as I saw that, my nostalgia/fanboy/childhood boner went skyrocketing.
I did a double take when I saw that - and then I pumped my fist. I'm currently replaying KH1 and I just finished Halloween Town last night.
***** Wut
Why
Kingdom Hearts is still a very much current series...
Gilshanks yes he is. and the guy with the helmet (cant remeber his name) is wearing pychonaut's main character's gear
Stanisław Wiśniewski hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha... no... well... kinda... kingdom hearts is current like mario or final fantasy is current, its an old game that refuses to die
My first episode of Extra Credits and I enjoyed it - plus, I'm playing through Deadly Premonition at the moment. Well made and thanks for posting it!
5:04: Wow... I didn't expect that in an EC episode...
Vladislav Dracula
😏
I really like the way they've uploaded the older video's. It's like episodes that I haven't seen in a while to tide me over until the new episode comes out. Good job Extra credits. Good job.
Binge watching old EC episodes. I so miss Alison and her pretty pictures.
Yup! James is dressed up as Sora in Halloween Town from Kingdom Hearts.
....this episode made me realize, i play a lot of video games. not from what they were toalking about or anything they mentioned, just there costumes, i recognized every costume from all of their halloween episodes. and even if i didn't play a few of the games, i still recognized them
Makes me think of excessive jesus symbology in movies "I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS!" - The sound the Nostalgia critic hears while watching man of steel
because its symbolic, and means stuff
That description of the uncanny definitely fits the gman.
valve is good at the just plain... off
It has been half a decade, and I still come back to this episode since I love it so much!
Hello from 2017! You did all of the episodes you wanted to do, and I think that's cool.
by the way, i love that you explore the idea of psychology in games while "dressed" as a character from one of my favorite games of all time: Psychonauts
5:00 this is why kentucky route zero did such a good job of establishing an unsettling atmosphere for the game.
All this did was confirm WHY Fatal Frame II is as jaw-droppingly beautiful as it is roof-impaled-by-piss terrifying. Good job :)
So the Uncanny is probably the reason why creepypasta is so popular- it takes something we understand or at least are familiar with, like Majora's Mask, then turns it on its head in unsettling ways.
Great job! That was horror psychology done in 7 min, that is something i cannot achieve, ever.
i disagree with the whole japanese horror games being better because of the foreign setting. most great horror games have come out of japan such as the old silent hill games. the problem is that american companies are too engrossed in things needing action and guns. sure make terrifying enemies but also give the player a machine gun to mow them all down
but having that machine gun gives you a chance to kill the monster. to be honest in my opinion at least, horror is the feeling that you are COMPLETELY helpless against the creatures of night, that no matter what you do you can't kill it. All you can do is run. which is what I loved about the old silent hill game. was that you were the guest inside the hellish world of a little girls nightmare, who tried to protect everyone and who was being used in an attempt to resurrect a demonic god. In my opinion a horror game tells a story and keeps the player amerced with an intriguing play and puzzle style. make you look for all the little things that make the game eye popping and REALLY good.
ohh i worded my comment wrong lol my bad. i meant thats what american companies do, they make the freaky enemies still but they make it all meaningless once you're able to just kill them all, its no longer horror. i agree with you, horror games need to make you feel helpless and terrified. the early silent hill games were fantastic
I'd really like to see a game of mundane, real horror. You don't need to be outlandish and inhuman to scare, in fact if you can link the fear to something that the player can see as real, that would be best. Imagine a survival horror where you're not running from demons, zombies or outlandish horrors, but say a religious cult that wants you dead. Think of Mike Myers: he wasn't an alien/demon/lovecraftian abomination, but he was scary because human and mundane as he was, he was going to kill you, and you could not stop him.
mike myers? he was a terrible horror villain. freddy was heaps more terrifying cause he got you in your dreams, cant really run from them. The evil cult thing wouldnt be a bad idea though
been done unfortunately, silent hill is basically the whole cult game. not after you specifically at first but you eventually become the target. Silent hill is an amazing game. not an amazing series but the first two games are outstanding, number three, eh. But four was a good turn about involving a different but similar cult and a different child not ellisa. horror creation has its limits in the eyes of developers, but in us, there is no end. so hopefully a developer will note this and think, "what if I create a scenario where the player scares themselves? let their imagination build the story." this kinda game would be near impossible. but if done, I would sure as hell love to try it.
I am liking this series a lot, keep up the work
When you mention the trifecta of the self, uncanny and other, my first thought is of a paper I wrote in my undergraduate studies. It was on The Sandman, a short story by German author E.T.A Hoffmann. That short story perfectly encapsulates the idea of the uncanny and the bizarre, I urge anyone interested in those topics to give it a read!
Red is also has symbolic meaning behind lust. I saw a really cool study on a nova program where they put people in rooms bathed with blue/red/white colors and asked them to signal when they thought 1 minute had passed. The people in the blue room tended to signal before a minute actually passed while the people in the red room tended to signal after 1 minute had passed. In effect, time seems slower when we are looking at red (fight or flight). It's also the color of genetalia (lust).
0:45 Which game is that monster from?
It'd be very awesome if you guys did an episode on the Silent Hill mythos! Just...Try to avoid referencing the mythos/main plot past games #3/#4, since the new creative team doesn't comprehend the actual story and even contradicted their own take on Silent Hill's mechanics numerous times, and Tom Hulett is a major ass-barnacle. Though, you guys seem like big fans since you reference SH so much, so I suppose you probably already knew this. ^^'
I have used this video so many times during my time at university. Thanks guys
For you guys who are curious and willing to do some reading, "uncanning" has a name. Its a phenomena called uncanny valley. It is the bio-psycological source of racism (just want to clarify that, as its true with MANY other phenomena, its still wrong besides being natural - rape, for instance, is natural) and the reason we find "high" apes and robots that are too realistic so ugly. Things that are a lot like us without being us makes us unconfortable.
Aweseme video guys :D
Extra credits has a video on the uncanny valley and they do a pretty good job explaining it.
Was this originally uploaded on a different date or was Halloween in February in 2012?
What I would love from a video game, is that the person who you interact with during the whole game,(Your "quest giver") Sometimes when he leaves you, you will see a shadow, a shadow of the devil. It is very subtle and the whole game. And the game premise is that you are an Holy man and suppose to kill Unholy creatures, but then it turned out, it is actually the other way around.
If you guys need more Halloween ideas, you could go further into the different types of horror such as psychological horror and gore or jumpscare horror.
4:03 That reference was out there, almost out of this world perhaps
2:37 Oh, hello brother! Lovely to see you again.
"Funny Games", the original movie, not the remake, is a great example of addressing the viewers secret shame masterfully
In case anyone wants to know, Daniel is Raz from Pyschonauts, James is Ghost Town Sora from Kingdom Hearts and Allison Is Marcus Feniz from Gears of War. Hopefully that will clear some things up.
@MrXman49O I love you.
My favourite game is Amnesia, the torture rooms were genius for the games, everything came together when you have a flash back of going to that farmers house and when you find the last page of his diary. Finally you understand the story, why he feels ''broken'', why he is sorry and why he feels he needs to kill Alexander.
Uncanny is the reason I'm afraid of Toy Story. Baby Face is disturbing because he looks like a doll, but has all these freaky modifications that disturb me, such as a missing eye. It did stay with me and still does...even though I'm 15 now, I refuse to watch that movie. This is also the reason I have Distortion Pediophobia, bascically, I'm not afraid of normal looking dolls, but when they have missing eyes and overall creepy distortion, I become very afraid of them.
The baby in the Pixar short "Tin Toy" was much creepier for me. It has the design of a regular baby I suppose, but perhaps it's because of Pixar's developing art experience with digital technology at the time that something about the way it looks and moves is just... off. It definitely fits the uncanny valley perspective.
Yeah, it was a little unsettling for me too...
I personally enjoy Japan. I'm not really into horror, but I read and watch manga and anime and Japan is very fascinating.
Had friend that was too. I don't really get it, even now. Care to explain...?
sebool112 Hard to explain as my own knowledge of Japan is somewhat limited.
Callie Choquette Then... how do you find it fascinating...?
sebool112 I find Japanese culture in general to be very facinating. In any case, it was a while ago when I made the first comment. I probably don't remember what I was refering to.
Callie Choquette I don't understand it completely, but I think I get the idea. Thanks.
The reason why I love Persona. You and ATLUS obviously did their homework.
With the three you guys named, this is EXACTLY why the Slenderman has SUCH an amazing mythos.
my grandmother lost both legs due to infection, i feel sorry for amputees. the crazy man on the street corner with a brick in his hand, i cross the street to the other side/ turn around/ continue with self defense tactics in mind
Loved the artwork in this episode.
Yeah, I think Lost Silver does the whole uncanny thing pretty well. Though nothing scary was happening, you always expect there to be something that jumps out or takes the entire screen, but it doesn't, leaving you feeling disturbed.
Not all the enemies in Silent Hill 2 represent a thing in James. The Abstract Daddy is a manifestation of Angela’s mind when her and James Worlds Overlap.
Good point!
I LOVE how you used the AB Normal image from Young Frankenstein every time back then X'D
So a Halloween episode posted in February?
Seems legit.
This is one of the things that make Subnautica so terrifying: The unknown. When you play it, especially for the first time, everything is unknown and alien to you. You don't know what is dangerous and what's not, though the dangerous things do tend to look dangerous.
I imagine a zombie unicorn. Cuz unicorns only approach virgins.
Unicorns must really like you.
Where did this come from
YOU'RE THE BEST!! THIS HELPED SO MUCH
I love the Lovecraftian references throughout the video!
5:41-5:46 I see the reference to Kant's psychology. Clever one :)
Slenderman capitalizes on uncanny fear. It looks human, but the longer you look the less so it seems. It's surprisingly well thought out and is helped by the way we naturally would examine a person, from their stature (business man) to their face (...mannequin?) and their background (AND ARE THOSE TENTACLES!?). You also never see him harm someone, but they're assumed as good as dead, so imagination takes in and we go from a suit display model with tentacles to a deadly mysterious "Slender man".
In Planetside 2 I change the VS names to purple, and the NC names to blue, because as TR it's just down right confusing seeing everyone as red.
flashing green when taking damage would make perfect sense if it was a debuff described as a disease, or if it was poison/venom
03:49 And that's basically what gives Spec Ops: The Line all of it's narrative value.
People like me and James we seek the Uncanny/Others/Dark Shadow on games.
It is a core principle of being human, we are attracted to what we find unknown or strange.
I'm about to read Jung's Man and his Symbols. I am so excite.
I think one western game has done "The Other"-concept well: Another World by Delphine Software. It throws the player into an unsetteling world almost instantly. Everything in the game steps along with the concept, especially if you're playing the computer versions with their lack of music in any gameplay situation.
I watched Erasedhead a few days ago and I wasn't only unnerved, but very angry.
I remember the whole color symbolism well. Rise of legend has your main faction as red fighting blue guys, and it threw me for a loop when i first played that game.
1. I learned in my one mythologies class that some older civilizations signify red as the color of life (blood) and white as the color of death (skeleton). 2. I remember feeling the effect of "the uncanny" from "The Omega Man", where the infected there continues to weird me out.
That Romanian Traffic Sign... :D
1:53 I did, and it works only in a very creepy way (taking damage and screen flashes green? Green is the color of vomit you know). I get the idea, though. It's a warning.
4:20 What do you mean about the amputee being armless?
I'm very satisfied seeing that Raz costume.
Nice episode, I was a little disappointed that there was no mention of P4 during the part about the self but overall it was very well put together.
The Shadows from Persona 4 make so much more sense to me after watching this video. Didn't know it was an actual psychological term.
This episode is great, thank you...
...for helping me with my English book report essay.
+Extra Credits this really helped me. You see, I want to make a game which is an commentary on depression and what it does to a person. This really helped me figured out how to apply it to my game. thank you.
5 years late, I know, but when I'd just turned 15 [and my parents thus let me play pegi 15 shooters] I wanted to play the split-screen with my younger brother. My mother didn't like the blood effect on, I think it was CoD: MW2. But we found that if you pluged the Pb & Pr leads on the Xbox 360 component HD lead into the wrong slots, the blood looked more like that blue bubblegum pop, which she didn't mind. So while Rust looked downright bizzar, it remained playable, and so [with coverage in the tutorial, and time to get used to it] the idea of a none-red danger indicator remains potentially viable. 1:25
Not that I'm sugesting we wouldn't question it the whole time, but If we want to make a player question what they're doing, marking enemies as non-red may be a start.
I loved and hated the feeling of insignificance at the end of ME3. Now I have a better understand of the reasons^^
Pyramid Head: "I am a shadow, the true self."
0:27 Im totally doing that at some point, it had been added to my bucket list! :3
the whole point is how symbolism is used to cause reactions in people without even a word needing to be spoken. red is effectively the symbol for 'danger' or 'enemy' in every culture without anyone coming together and agreeing on it. it simply is because we perceive it that way. what he went through was the different ways certain symbols can be used to cause responses from our subconscious
Interestingly enough, I'd say that Spec Ops the Line applies to the "self" part. Other than what's been said in EC's Spec Ops video, everything goes full circle knowing that this game was based on the book Heart of Darkness, which in turn was well known to use the concepts of the Jungian shadow and how it's projected onto things beyond the individual.
I'm liking the Raz outfit :)
Nice wink to Psychonauts there.
@5:03
"Shaken, not Stirred."
I Lulzed, that was great.
Thank you for the Jame's Halloween Town Sora outfit.
0:38 "We briefly considered doing an episode on propaganda games, which are the type of games James finds scariest."
lel
Yes it is. And how happy I am at the sight of it.
I can't wait for you guys to do something about F.E.A.R and F.E.A.R 2 (and it's DLC).
Oh boy, as an Earthbound fan, I would love to go in depth and explain to you all the aspects of Giygas. But I'll keep it as simple as I can.
First of all, have you seen it? Earthbound is so happy jolly, sometimes going very dark unexpectedly, then they finally throw the most disturbing thing at you for a final boss. And that MUSIC.
Second, it's a fetus. Look up the stuff about it. Not to mention it was based off of the creator's one traumatizing event in his childhood.
I didn't know that in every multimedia and books where symbolism everywhere. I like I noticed in two games that rabbits who want to kill you are yellow and I wondered why. I recently found out that yellow is associated with madness and both rabbit are mad. In another game Gylt Emily that has a panda bear. Why not regular bear? I found out that pandas are the protector of the weak or vulnerable like Emily. It was perfect for her. It's so amazing that there are many symbolism in games.
All I have to say about the outro music: Yes.
Their costumes are: Green guy (forgot his name): Rasputin from Psychonauts. James: Halloween Town version of Sorra in Kingdom Hearts 1. Alysson: Marcus from Gears of War?
It's wierd that I haven't seen this video till now. When I heard them mention Jungian psychology and the concept of the "shadow" I expected a small call out to the Persona series.
Hm, I'd make bets that this won't be read by many, but I believe that guitar for the intro to these videos is none other than that of the Bob-Bomb world from Mario 64.
James is actually the KH2 version of Sora in Halloween Town, which makes it even more epic.