There is every reason- Amazon went wildly off track that it's just not what Tolkien wrote at all- THAT is why we're angry. For $1B spent- it's looks cheap, the acting is terrible, the costumes are fake, the CGI is plastic and there is nothing that helps to tie in the movies... it's an utter mess! That is why we hate it!! And for that we're called racists...
doesn't change the fact that you still come across as someone who has not seen the show... the cgi looks good, the costumes look great, the acting is fine too... you see what you did?? "it's not true to tolkein lore, also piling on random criticism" i agree and acknowledge that lore is not one to one, and honestly that is a fair arguement, but this video was about racist arguements, maybe watch this video first or watch the show first or something?? a lot of people (not all) like the one's in this video are giving the "lore arguement" to hide the fact that they are racists... the show isn't as bad as people are saying it is.
ignoring all the worst parts of the show and focusing just on race. Having one or two black hobbits really makes no sense, they're supposed to be a reclusive tribe, an insular tribe, they don't mix. The show is calling them proto-hobbits, Tolkien described one Hobbit breed as fair skinned and another browner in comparison, but they were never described as completely different races, Tolkien understood the need for an internal consistent logic. He made the appearance of the different races consistent and plausible for the history and setting he chose for them. If the show runners felt it necessary to be more inclusive when it comes to race, that's fine, but make it fit the internal logic, the Harfoots should all have been the same race, all with similar features to reflect the type of people they are, they're a small reclusive tribe of people that don't mix, a tribe from a particular continent. When you're portraying a tribe of people from the past, even in fantasy, it's always best to make them all have similar features, it's just more realistic. I know it's fantasy and that some people will think realism doesn't come into it, some people not used to fantasy seem to think there are no rules, but a no rules fantasy, with hardly any internal logic just isn't very compelling, it makes it hard to get immersed and engrossed. You might not always understand why you don't find the story compelling, but sometimes it's the internal inconsistencies and inserting things that don't fit the already established tone. I've sat through lots of silly fantasy films and I've enjoyed them for what they are, not caring too much about the internal logic and inconsistencies, but with Tolkien it's something different, he spent decades writing about the people, the cultures, the languages and the history of his fantasy world, he created the lore, its internal logic and tone, he cared about it and the people that love his work care about it.
@@interpretthenonsense You sound like the angry one, I just made a few points, I'm not angry. I didn't complain about the show adding different races to the cast, I said it makes no sense having different races in a small tribe of people from the same continent, they should all be the same regardless of race. If you don't care about the show making sense, if you believe there should be no rules to fantasy and that being true to what Tolkien wrote isn't important, that's fine, but what's wrong with the people that do care about those things? You can call everyone racist and sexist and pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how right you are, but at the end of the day, I'm not racist and the choice the show made will still make no sense and it still won't be "Tolkien".
@@LeeB442 there's difference between angry and annoyed and I'm annoyed as hell at the racist arguments, race is no more just biology skin colour, it's geopolitical, seeing photos of a crowded supposed white country you see people of colour which is normal, but ohhhh no the race needs to be pure black or pure white or pure brown.... if you think a skin colour for a fictional race is important, you are a racist, period. you literally don't have any arguments... all hobbits have similar characteristics, so do elves, and dwarves, but "ohhhh no skin colour needs to be same!!" jfc are you seriously pretending you are not racist?? what makes a European a European today ? skin colour??? or cultural upbringing? obviously you think skin colour cause you'd look at Europeans from the fucking stone age to say WHITE. keep pretending you are not racist. cry
@@interpretthenonsense "if you think a skin colour for a fictional race is important, you are a racist, period", that's just a ridiculous thing to say, how much it matters is situational, it depends on the specific story and the setting. You can't just say it's fiction so it never matters, how do you portray a specific race of people separate and different from another race in fiction if you have to tick quota boxes and make every group of people all different races? I made a specific point about the Hobbits in the show, I didn't talk about any other casting choices. I'm talking about how to best represent a specific race of people, not an individual person in a modern multicultural city. The Hobbits have specific traits that need to be addressed, they're a small tribe of people that come from a particular place, a people that are so shy that nobody else in Middle Earth had even heard of them until the third age, if the show had made them all black it would have been a much better choice and made more sense than having one or two black hobbits, where did the completely different Hobbit races come from, how did they get together? What will the small tribe of Hobbits look like after a few generations of keeping to themselves, mostly homogeneous? Tolkien described the Hobbits as a homogeneous looking people with the same features and traits for a reason, they come from the same place and they keep to themselves. People keep saying "it's fiction" or "its fantasy" as if to say these things don't matter and then call everyone racist for mentioning it. It's not racist to expect a show to make sense, even fantasy. Every fantasy has it's own internal logic that it needs to be faithful to, some are more detailed and more involved than others.
true i guess you are right... you are not a typical racist but logical one...you don't call for g*cide you might be into segregation, and calling a racist and putting in the same category as the KKK is definitely wrong on my behalf and i apologize.... hobbits do have a specific trait if you actually decided to see beyond the skin colour... the production of the show was done in the 21st century, where while casting these fictional "races?" they chose good actors despite the actors skin colours. also if all the hobbits were black in ROP i promise you the racist arguments would have just increased even more cause "OHHHHH NOOOOOO HOW CAN THEY BE BLACK NOW IT DONT ALIGN WITH LOTR TRILOGY AND IT'S NOT LINEAR AND BLAH BLAH WOKE WOKE" i am still assuming you haven't watched my video entirely so i'll just paraphrase what i said, "there is criticism that is valid; there is criticism that is racist; and then there is criticism that is racist adjacent. the racist adjacent is the tolkein lore gatekeepers who are using the lore to promote actual racists who promote bigotry." now you might think you are not doing that and your criticism is valid, but trust me, it's not. i don't think you are racist but you definitely gotta check your implicit biases.... 0:10 overall the show was 7.5/10 for ME visually, sound design, acting, set design, production quality all of it was between 9 and 10. story was sometimes a bit rushed other times slow and that's very much understandable cause never done before, hope they understand the faults and do better in season 2. and lastly just to piss you off, fuck your tolkein lore gatekeeping i do not give a fuck. have a good one.
There is every reason- Amazon went wildly off track that it's just not what Tolkien wrote at all- THAT is why we're angry. For $1B spent- it's looks cheap, the acting is terrible, the costumes are fake, the CGI is plastic and there is nothing that helps to tie in the movies... it's an utter mess!
That is why we hate it!!
And for that we're called racists...
doesn't change the fact that you still come across as someone who has not seen the show... the cgi looks good, the costumes look great, the acting is fine too... you see what you did?? "it's not true to tolkein lore, also piling on random criticism" i agree and acknowledge that lore is not one to one, and honestly that is a fair arguement, but this video was about racist arguements, maybe watch this video first or watch the show first or something?? a lot of people (not all) like the one's in this video are giving the "lore arguement" to hide the fact that they are racists... the show isn't as bad as people are saying it is.
ignoring all the worst parts of the show and focusing just on race. Having one or two black hobbits really makes no sense, they're supposed to be a reclusive tribe, an insular tribe, they don't mix. The show is calling them proto-hobbits, Tolkien described one Hobbit breed as fair skinned and another browner in comparison, but they were never described as completely different races, Tolkien understood the need for an internal consistent logic. He made the appearance of the different races consistent and plausible for the history and setting he chose for them.
If the show runners felt it necessary to be more inclusive when it comes to race, that's fine, but make it fit the internal logic, the Harfoots should all have been the same race, all with similar features to reflect the type of people they are, they're a small reclusive tribe of people that don't mix, a tribe from a particular continent.
When you're portraying a tribe of people from the past, even in fantasy, it's always best to make them all have similar features, it's just more realistic. I know it's fantasy and that some people will think realism doesn't come into it, some people not used to fantasy seem to think there are no rules, but a no rules fantasy, with hardly any internal logic just isn't very compelling, it makes it hard to get immersed and engrossed. You might not always understand why you don't find the story compelling, but sometimes it's the internal inconsistencies and inserting things that don't fit the already established tone.
I've sat through lots of silly fantasy films and I've enjoyed them for what they are, not caring too much about the internal logic and inconsistencies, but with Tolkien it's something different, he spent decades writing about the people, the cultures, the languages and the history of his fantasy world, he created the lore, its internal logic and tone, he cared about it and the people that love his work care about it.
jesus fucking chirst a ficitonal race now has people of colour playing that race, cry more you fucking baby.
@@interpretthenonsense
You sound like the angry one, I just made a few points, I'm not angry.
I didn't complain about the show adding different races to the cast, I said it makes no sense having different races in a small tribe of people from the same continent, they should all be the same regardless of race.
If you don't care about the show making sense, if you believe there should be no rules to fantasy and that being true to what Tolkien wrote isn't important, that's fine, but what's wrong with the people that do care about those things? You can call everyone racist and sexist and pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how right you are, but at the end of the day, I'm not racist and the choice the show made will still make no sense and it still won't be "Tolkien".
@@LeeB442 there's difference between angry and annoyed and I'm annoyed as hell at the racist arguments, race is no more just biology skin colour, it's geopolitical, seeing photos of a crowded supposed white country you see people of colour which is normal, but ohhhh no the race needs to be pure black or pure white or pure brown.... if you think a skin colour for a fictional race is important, you are a racist, period. you literally don't have any arguments... all hobbits have similar characteristics, so do elves, and dwarves, but "ohhhh no skin colour needs to be same!!" jfc are you seriously pretending you are not racist?? what makes a European a European today ? skin colour??? or cultural upbringing? obviously you think skin colour cause you'd look at Europeans from the fucking stone age to say WHITE. keep pretending you are not racist. cry
@@interpretthenonsense
"if you think a skin colour for a fictional race is important, you are a racist, period", that's just a ridiculous thing to say, how much it matters is situational, it depends on the specific story and the setting. You can't just say it's fiction so it never matters, how do you portray a specific race of people separate and different from another race in fiction if you have to tick quota boxes and make every group of people all different races?
I made a specific point about the Hobbits in the show, I didn't talk about any other casting choices. I'm talking about how to best represent a specific race of people, not an individual person in a modern multicultural city.
The Hobbits have specific traits that need to be addressed, they're a small tribe of people that come from a particular place, a people that are so shy that nobody else in Middle Earth had even heard of them until the third age, if the show had made them all black it would have been a much better choice and made more sense than having one or two black hobbits, where did the completely different Hobbit races come from, how did they get together? What will the small tribe of Hobbits look like after a few generations of keeping to themselves, mostly homogeneous? Tolkien described the Hobbits as a homogeneous looking people with the same features and traits for a reason, they come from the same place and they keep to themselves.
People keep saying "it's fiction" or "its fantasy" as if to say these things don't matter and then call everyone racist for mentioning it. It's not racist to expect a show to make sense, even fantasy. Every fantasy has it's own internal logic that it needs to be faithful to, some are more detailed and more involved than others.
true i guess you are right... you are not a typical racist but logical one...you don't call for g*cide you might be into segregation, and calling a racist and putting in the same category as the KKK is definitely wrong on my behalf and i apologize....
hobbits do have a specific trait if you actually decided to see beyond the skin colour... the production of the show was done in the 21st century, where while casting these fictional "races?" they chose good actors despite the actors skin colours.
also if all the hobbits were black in ROP i promise you the racist arguments would have just increased even more cause "OHHHHH NOOOOOO HOW CAN THEY BE BLACK NOW IT DONT ALIGN WITH LOTR TRILOGY AND IT'S NOT LINEAR AND BLAH
BLAH WOKE WOKE"
i am still assuming you haven't watched my video entirely so i'll just paraphrase what i said, "there is criticism that is valid; there is criticism that is racist; and then there is criticism that is racist adjacent. the racist adjacent is the tolkein lore gatekeepers who are using the lore to promote actual racists who promote bigotry." now you might think you are not doing that and your criticism is valid, but trust me, it's not. i don't think you are racist but you definitely gotta check your implicit biases.... 0:10
overall the show was 7.5/10 for ME
visually, sound design, acting, set design, production quality all of it was between 9 and 10.
story was sometimes a bit rushed other times slow and that's very much understandable cause never done before, hope they understand the faults and do better in season 2.
and lastly just to piss you off, fuck your tolkein lore gatekeeping i do not give a fuck.
have a good one.