Thank you for the review Matt. I had a chance to try the entire I-series lenses at WPPI in Vegas this week. The 65mmm f2 stood out from the rest. I love the focal length and the rendering. The lens is extremely sharp from F2 on. I was thinking of getting the 85mm F1.4 for my Sony but now I am giving this lens serious consideration. The built quality reminds me of Leica lenses!!
I have hard time removing this 65mm from my Sigma fp... It's such a great combination! I am not a sharpness whore by any mean, but I shoot mostly streets at night and having a good amount of sharpness means I can bump up the ISO and still have plenty of sharpness remaining. And as a "between 50 to 75mm" kind of shooter, this lens is perfect for me. Also despite this lens being super sharp, I don't feel it to be dull or clinical/soulless. Maybe it's the contrast, or the colors or the combination with the superb fp colors... I don't know. But I find it very pleasant. 😉
The reason for the Sigma 65mm f/2 out performing the Voigtländer 50mm f/2 in your test has to do with the Voigtländer being optimized for the Leica M-mount and not for the Leica L-mount. The filter stack thickness between the M-mount and L-mount are different enough to affect the optical performance of the Voigtländer lens on the L-mount. When both lenses (optimized for the Sony E-mount) are tested on a 42-megapixel Sony camera, the Voigtländer is perhaps the better performing lens. In his testing, Christopher Frost found that the Sigma 65mm f/2 had less vignetting than the Voigtländer 50mm f/2, but the Sigma produced moderate pincushion distortion; whereas, the Voigtländer was nearly distortion free. Also, the Voigtländer had better close-up image performance over the Sigma, but the Sigma had a little better flare control. As for bokeh, the Voigtländer had an edge. But when it came to longitudinal CA, the Voigtländer was clearly better. In terms of overall optical performance on the Sony camera, the Voigtländer is a little better, but the Sigma offers autofocus, and it also delivers excellent image quality that makes it a great choice for general photography.
Thanks for sharing. Yes I did a follow up video about M glass on M bodies as I knew the APO was better than I showed here. I still have it and rate the lens. I appreciate you commenting and listing the differences.
@18yearsoldnot It's my understanding that the mirrorless Nikon bodies do have a reasonably thin sensor stack. So, you could use Voigtländer M-mount lenses (and M-mount lenses from other manufacturers) with an adapter, of course, with good effect on these Nikon bodies.
@@chesslover8829 yep, unfortunately I sold my z5 in anticipation of the z6iii, but holding off again because the DR performance of the z6iii is atrocious - I want something I can use for taking landscapes when hiking. Might just have to look at a used z6
@@18yearsoldnot I'm sorry to hear about the drop in dynamic range performance for the Z6III. What was Nikon thinking? I was a Nikon user. I've now gone with Sony.
I use this Sigma 65mm for video interviews for live music artists But I’m really enjoying it for live music photography and 3/4 body 1/2 body portraits of the live performance portrait style shots . Love how it renders the background lighting.
The 65mm is amazing, I’m glad you liked it. Thanks for the video. Also try the sigma 45mm, you may enjoy it more than you think. Less sharp, falloff to the edges. A joy to use and I like the results, it produces a nice look.
I’m glad you liked the 65mm! I found that this is a great focal length for model shoots. I will be using mine for a shoot a week from now. Sigma FP/FPL with a M to L adapter will make your setup very small. The downside is if you want the evf, you will have to buy separately. They are also not good cameras for using flashes. Fingers crossed, I’m still hoping Sigma will eventually introduce a foveon sensor full frame camera with the L mount. It would be a very awesome camera to have!
Matt: You're using the Leica mount Voightlander Apo on an adapter. It's going to give you soft edges because of the thick Panasonic sensor stack. Leica mount lenses adapted to mirrorless cameras like Panasonic and Sony always give softer edges. Cosina compensates by adjusting the element spacing when converting a lens designed for Leica to a model for the Sony. And who knows maybe your Leica adapter for the Panasonic isn't perfectly aligned. You should ask to borrow a Sony mount Voigtlander Apo and a Sony Body to test the difference between a Leica mount Voigtlander adapted to a Panasonic and a Voigtlander lens sold with a Sony mount. The edges on the two lenses will be dramatically different.
Hi CF, sorry to confuse. The "real" test shots are all with the Leica SL which is modified for RF (M) lenses. I used the Lumix only for the few garden shots for variety (and when testing SL verses S5 in those videos there is little difference. Sony is the one with the corner smearing etc).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt there has to be something going on with the results of the Apo Lanthar on the Leica SL - can't even get a somewhat sharp edge until 5.6? Corner results must be horrible. Look at every other test online. I don't have the 50 Apo, but I have the 35 Apo and it's pretty crisp to the corners wide open. Cosina claims the 50 Apo is sharpest lens they've ever created. Either your adapter is out of alignment or the lens is. PS I like both you and your channel, but something here needs further investigation🙂.
@@c.f.384 - Sigma used to put Apo on some of their film era lenses. Strange to have the Art series and C lenses sharper than Apo lenses of other manufacturers and yet Sigma does not put Apo on such lenses of theirs.
@@c.f.384 I recently got 35 and 50 apo and the sharpness is ridiculous, no need to mention the microcontrast and 3d pop. It is worth the money if you are going for the best IQ, and autofocus is not your primary concern. I also own a 24mm sigma i series which is also good, but never touched it once after I got the APOs.
Hello Matt, I am new to your channel and just got a Leica SL and this lens recently, and I really gives me shock that how sigma lens perform comparing to the old lenses. I also uses a Leica Summicron-R 50mm F2 lens with adapter, and comes out the 65mm f2 is just impressive and more versatile. Thanks for your videos! They really gives me good recommendation when I am buying some new lenses!
Thanks for the feedback and welcome to Leica! Go to MrLeica.com (link below) and get the Leica welcome pack for SL. Yes modern Sigma lenses are very perfect. If you want more character get older or Voigtlander or others.
Hey Matt you I really appreciate these third party lens reviews because camera shops where I live in Sydney Australia seem to prefer to stock original manufacturers products only, the staff are often unfamiliar with many accessories and lenses I’ve seen on TH-cam channels meaning ordering them from the shop or internet without having ever held them or tried them Many thanks Ron
Dear Matt, thanks for the test! It confirmes what I have already experienced with the 28-70 mm Sigma - great lens for the money. Did shoot my son’s wedding recently- wanted to have AF to more enjoy the wedding. So, happy with it. Just this Sunday night at a Jazz club - went back to my 75 mm Voigtlander and loved it …
Hi dear Matt, I was very busy in the last 3 months and could not follow your videos regularly , then when I came back again it was all about Artisan Chinese lenses which wasn't very appealing (to me), but I have been a big fan of Sigma all the time never used their L Mount lenses but the art series with nikon f mount was amazing and I had a couple of other Sigma Nikon f mounts especially a wide zoom which was fantastic and super high quality... this video was great especially the moments I saw the kiev cameras and the jupiter lenses .... PS I should say the quality of your videos have improved dramatically both from a face-to-cam and an overlay point of view ,so well done and keep up the good work, Cheers, Nick
Hi Nick, thanks for the progression feedback. Yes it only took 270 videos but I feel i'm making progress as I learn! Yes not every video is for everyone, cheap lenses, very expensive lenses, AF lenses, vintage lenses. I try to provide all that relate to Leica so to help the different groups of interests. Personally I like the older lenses the most and more of those to come! Matt
My only Sigma lens, that I use regularly is a 30mm f/1.4 DC lens with A-mount, that I use on a Sony A58, so the full frame equivalent focal length for the lens is 45mm. My other prime lens for the A58 is the 20mm f/2.8 lens originally designed and produced by Minolta, but mine is newer and does carry the Sony logo. It's a kit, I'm happy to use, when I'm not shooting film - I have even been tempted to pick up a Minolta Dynax, and see how the Sigma performs with film, but I haven't done that yet.
Hi Matt. I just got one of these lenses 2nd hand, and the focus was not linear. Turned it the lens had firmware 1.1, need to have 1.2 for the linear setting to work. It feels great, almost like a manual lens, though the minimum setting is 300 degrees, not 90 degrees like on the Lumix lenses. You can update the lens firmware through your Lumix S5, just put the 1.2 .plf file on a formatted SD card and power on the camera, go into "Firmware Version" and hit update.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You're welcome. After testing some more yesterday, nah, not exactly like a manual, I wish it was manual or had a focus clutch, I don't care for autofocus either. And the Sigma lens seems to drain the battery of the S5 far faster than the native lenses...
Might be worth doing a similar comparison again but with the CV APO 50 on your M240 and the Sigma 65 on the SL. If the APO is working right it should be very sharp in the corners. The SL does have a thinner sensor stack to accommodate M lenses but they still perform best on an M body. I believe the M240 has a cover glass of 0.8mm and the SL has 1mm sensor stack. It doesn’t sound like a big difference on paper but in practice it can be quite significant for certain lenses.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom All good. The Sigma is a beautiful lens though! I borrowed a friend's copy for a short while and was blown away by it. I never purchased it though, I couldn't quite think of what I would use the 65mm focal length for. Maybe need to borrow it again... haha
Interesting comparison. On any other L-mount camera (Sigma, Panasonic) the argument against M-mount lenses is strong, because of the different sensor stacks thickness. So one either uses native L-mount lenses or adapts from a DSLR standard (not rangefinder). I would like to comment on the rather dismissive approach to the Panasonic lens... which I can understand from a purely physical encounter. But one must consider that the Lumix S system is hybrid still/video and so the lenses are designed to that end. The primes are extremely good performers, are weather-sealed, have identical sizes and filter rings (great for matte boxes and gimbals) and are otherwise optimised for video (low focus breathing, etc.). You don't get an aperture ring but you get wider apertures, consistent at f/1.8, where as the Sigma i-series goes from f/2 to f/4. Personally, I wish Sigma had not tried to produce yet another line of modern corrected lenses, especially as they miss the target by comparison to Panasonic. What if instead each lens was modelled after a particular example of classic glass... with a minimum number of elements. How cool would it be to have auto-focus and auto-exposure glass for L-mount, but with Planar, Sonnar, Helios-44, and other designs? And this could be done significantly heaper considering the most you might need is 7 elements. Oh well, a fella can dream, right? In the meantime I have Contax and Pentax glass that works fine but doesn't have the AF advantage. P.S. I think your idea of an L-mount film camera is smashing!
The the Lumix S5 regularly dropping in price to be a bargain, I am tempted at giving it a try. Paired with this Sigma and it's 200MP sensor shift mode, it should make for a great architecture/landscape setup.
Hello Matt! I’ve been watching quite a few of your videos and wanted to ask how you find the focus ring on the sigma’s compared to the voigtlander? I know auto focus lenses tend to not have great manual focus rings because they’re not as smooth the have a shorter throw so less precise. Thanks!
Hi, yes you can't compare focus by wire lenses to proper manual focus lenses. I really don't enjoy focus by wire lenses and only own 2 both which I use for AF only. You'll be better to buy a cheap soviet MF lens if you enjoy MF.
I have the Sigma and like it . I am considering the Voigtlander 65mm f/2 macro . It’s super super sharp. It may also need the black mist filter for portraits for sure . Plod a review on the Voigt 65
Thanks, The Voigt 65 is only for Nikon F I think, I'm a Leica M (VM) guy so we don't have this lens option. The Sigma is a good performer for L amount users but I'm a sucker for metal and glass M mount lenses.
Dude, I was just now looking at this lens for my SL2-S. My favorite is the Sigma 35mm 1.4 DG DN Art Lens. I bought the older Sigma 50mm 1.4 DG HSM Art Lens but it's massive and the autofocus isn't the best. Still like the Voigtländers 35mm 1.2 and 50mm 1.2 more when it comes to rendering.
Crikey! That's ridiculously sharp. I have the Voigtlander 50 APO, which is a superb lens; but this video reminds us that Sigma is desperately under-rated. Looks as though I need to get to work building another lens cabinet for Sigma glass, once I get over the shock...
On my SL2, my go to lenses are the Sigma 85mm f1.4 DG DN Art, followed by the Sigma 105mm f1.4 DG HSM Art. I do use an older Sigma 35mm f1.4 DG HSM Art when in tight rooms. Manual glass is TTARTISAN 90mm f1.25, 7ARTISAN 75mm f1 4, TTARTISAN 50mm f0.95 and TTARTISAN 35mm f1.4. Each has a look and use and dies the job. Except for maybe a 70-200 zoom, I don't need anything else
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom the 50 is good, but the 90 is on another level. It is really exquisite in rendering. Might be worth a look for your style of portraiture.
Loving your work Matt. This may sound as if I've given up after 45 yrs of buying camera gear, but nothing could be further from the truth. After many, many cameras/lenses over the years, I may have stopped at Lumix S5 for stills with Sigma 24/45/65 DG DN lenses. Before anyone gripes about S5 af, it is very good for stills and hey, manual focus is second nature to me, but rarely necessary. Sigma lenses are no longer cheaply made plastic rubbish. Yes, I have other great cameras for comparison and much experience. It is just a great camera and with the mentioned lenses, it gives fantastic images, as good as I will ever need. L monochrome baby ❤!
Hi Matt I have the sigma 65 mm f2. I took it to Iceland last year with my Leica sl2s. However I found it very sharp but uninspiring . ( I’ll try it again before I sell it)I felt the images lacked that secret sauce or 3 D pop. I have the m mount 50mm voitlander 3.5 heliar which has such a magical look which I LOVE. But I need another good 50mm lens for my sl2s. I’m thinking of the newish 50mm f2 SL sumacron or the LLL50mm f2 elcan
Yes, I've bought no Sigma lenses for the same reason. Nice but give me a proper M mount lens any day! I love the LLL Elcan. See my top 10 video. (I have the Heliar 3.5 in 2 versions also)
Hi, that's a big question! In brief, Sigma for AF lenses, Voigtlander for MF lenses. If you want to discuss in detail you can get me here - mrleica.com/zoom/
I’m curious what you think of 65mm as portrait lens? I usually do 50 indoors and 50/85 outdoors or in studio BUT I feel like 65 would be a great middle ground
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I understand; I wasn’t implying otherwise. The question of ‘too clinical’ fascinates me. For example, I love the ‘look’ of the Zeiss Sonnar 1.5 ZM. It’s special for me. Of course, technically it’s flawed. Love your work and your channel.
Dear Matt, I had a conversation with Sebastian G here in the comments , that might be interesting for you. We talked about the corner performance of the apo lanthar. You could test our theory, that it would perform much better on an Leica M camera. The E-Mount version has excellent corners according to a test Sebastian mentioned. Your test shows that the corners are weak on the SL with M lens, witch I also experienced with all my Voigtlander lenses on my SL.
Even the SL2-S is much better at the edges and corners with M lenses than the original SL 601. And the Voigtlander 50 APO is insane on the M11. The Sigma does have it beat with regard to wide open vignetting, though.
Hi Julius, I spoke with one of my Patreons and yes some lenses have been shown to perform better on M bodies. I will do a mini test SL vs M when I get a chance and share here.
I agree with the manual focus lenses being more rewarding. Personally, I enjoy more taking photos with the M246 than the SL. It is hard to leave the SL behind though since it is so fast to use with autofocus lenses.
Even though it's too big for how I like to run, the Sigma 18-35mm APS-C lens is just amazing. Paired with the Sigma sd Quattro it has no weakness other than size. I really wish Sigma would try their hand at M-mount lenses :)
That's what I've bee doing - I use my M11 for ports but have a Sony with a CZ 55mm 1.8 in the bag - just in case i have a very lively subject . The SL2-S is starting to temp me with those small metal Sigma primes.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom quick question - when using your SL2 to manual focus - do you still have to zoom in to nail the focus ? or is the screen big enough?
the 50 VM APO is made for the M mount, and while the SL is designed to accommodate the Leica M lens designs, it's still not fully optimized for the L-mount, and therefore the edge/corners will not be as good.
Thanks so much for your insightful reviews. I’ve been listing after the Voigtlander APO lenses thinking they’d be the sharpest. Great to find out I can save some money and get the Sigma lenses that were basically made for my camera anyway (Sigma FPL). I’ll buy some more affordable Chinese manual lenses for when I’m wanting to have a more intimate photography experience.
Great video again Matt. I own the Lumix 50 and 85 both 1,8 and I'm selling them as like you say they look like plastic toys and chromatic aberrations are part of the result of such light and inexpensive lenses.
So, I've used Sony's 50mm 1.2GM for a few weddings now, and I feel like everything else I've ever used is just a silly toy, now. I can't stress strongly enough how much this is the most perfect lens I've ever used. I have sold my S1 and the lenses, and I've using the A7iv and I'm ordering the 50mm 1.2 tomorrow. It's just -- I always want to be using something different than everyone else, and I feel like you're the same kind of person, but I strongly encourage you to rent the A7iv and the 50mm 1.2 for a few shoot. It stays locked on the eyes in continuous AF mode and there is LITERALLY zero CA. And it focuses to 0.4m! Anyway, I await your review. :-)
Hey Sean, thanks and nice! Congrats. Look out for a video coming soon, you might be able to relate and it includes a 50mm f1.2! :) ..0.4m is impressive!
Put me down for an L mount film camera! I’ve been using the Nikon 85 f1.8 it’s just a little long for my taste and a little sterile too. Sigma seems to really have their focus (pun intended) on affordable, well made, and laser sharp lenses. I’m glad you mentioned the ProMist the other day because they’re just way too sharp to shoot even on my little sigma FP compared to the fast 50s I’ve been shooting. Cheers!
Hi Matt! Thanks for the review. Your models and shots are amazing as usual. Just a small remark that may bias your overall conclusion: you are compairing Leica mount APO 50/2 to the Sigma 65/2 which is known to be not up to the optical quality of the E-mount APO 50/2. I would really be interested knowing the result of an E2E mount comparision.
I don't think there's anything better than the voightlander 65 apo... That sigma is sharp but it's too clinical and flat compared to the pop and color of the apo
As you explore autofocus lenses for your Leica 601, and wonder if fully manual is really that good and should you buy autofocus lens. I’ve been wondering and watching all those lenses and your journey, in the same boat. I’m concluding manual focus M lenses of Leica, Voigtländer, and Zeiss are really the best lenses in the world. And while I’m being seduced by autofocus too, you’ve lead me to think the only autofocus lens to have are real Leica SL lenses. My dilemma now is which one, zoom or prime, as I can only budget one, flip flopping between 35/50 prime. I might even go all in and get the SL 50mm f1.4.
Thanks William, for me I’ll shoot MF as long as I can but yes owning one AF lens for me is probably sensible. Yes if you love Leica then SL lenses are great, just be careful with the size of a Lux. Cron are better size.
Another interesting comparison will be Sigma 65mm f2 vs Sigma 50mm f1.4. The 65mm is nice and small and the 50mm is big. I wonder if it’s superior on IQ also since it’s a much newer design.
I am a bit surprised by your sharpness conclusions. Have you ever looked at tests done by lenstip? The resolution especially corner resolution in those tests favors the Apo-Lanthar. However, both their tests I think were done on a 42MP Sony and not Leica. Bad copy of the Voigtlander?
I heard that the Voigtlander performs best on Leica M cameras. There seem to be some corner problems on mirrorless cameras. I noticed some sharpness loss and color shift on my Leica SL . At iso 6400 in darker conditions you can clearly see heavy color shift in the corners. This seems to be the case with all my Voigtlander lenses. After all they are designed for M cameras. As far as I can tell, you don’t have these problems with sigma or other L mount lenses. The test, you mentioned, was surely done with the e-mount version of the lens. They must have optimized the lens design for Sony cameras, so you get great corner performance. It’s obvious, that the Sony e-mount lens is different from the Leica m-mount version. Only the E-mount offers a fair comparison between the lenses. The apo lanthar seems to be the better lens. No surprise really, it can even compete with a 8000 Euro Leica apo lens. Crazy 😜.
@@juliussternfeld428 This is a factor. The Apo-Lanthar has an E mount and M mount version, and the optical formula is not exactly the same. If you buy an M mount Apo-Lanthar and then use an adapter to mount to Sony E the corner performance will visibly be poor in comparison to the E mount version. Matt is using the M mount with an adapter to L. I am not sure if it has the same issue as using the M mount with adapter on a Sony. Many rangefinder lenses have issues when mounted to mirrorless. Leica did some special things, so M mount lenses work well on the SL? That is probably only with native Leice lenses though? Or does the SL still have issues with Leica M lenses like other mirrorless cameras?
@@sebastiang7183 they say that the Leica SL works better with m-mount than other mirrorless cameras. I think Leica uses software corrections for their own m-lenses. But that is far from ideal and doesn’t work with Voigtlander. I assume that m-lenses and SL cameras don’t work together as smoothly as Leica suggests. That’s my experience with the original SL. I don’t know, if newer SL cameras with better sensors have an easier job.
A Patreon told me that some M lenses have been shown to perform worse on the SL. I will do a follow up test when I get a chance to compare the lens on the SL and M.
@@juliussternfeld428 If I had to guess I would agree with you based on issues seen with other mirrorless cameras. Leica might do some software correction for their own lenses, but probably do not do anything for third party like Voigtlander. All I know is that for that lens there is a M-Mount and E-Mount for Sony mirrorless. If you buy the M-Mount and add an adapter the performance is poor in comparison to the E-Mount so the optical formula has been tweaked.
Hi I am very happy for you, your right the Sigma 65mm may be super good, but I will stay with my Nikon D850 and the Canon 1D X MII with the lens I have I can do the same. Finding good model for the work do is very hard now, but I am very for you.
This might not be a *fair* test for the apo. The apo is designed for film and digital Leica M cameras. The SL has, I believe, a thicker IR filter in front of the image sensor that reduces image quality for non-telecentric lenses. Telecentric lenses are lenses where the light rays hit the sensor perpendicularly - which is not a requirement for film cameras at all. Because of this, the voigtlander may perform better on a Leica M camera than on an SL. The SL does support Leica M lenses but that doesn't mean it is optimal form them. You might find improved performance by adding a plano-convex 1500mm focal length lens in front of the lens. Philip Reeve suggests this in some cases. I have done some of my own simulation work and come to the same conclusions, but not with 50mm lenses (I only looked at 28mm lenses).
Thanks Josh, yes these results were bizarre. I've no clue what happened that day as I normally get great images from the APO. My benchmark lenses for all M lenses. It's normally fine on the SL. I use the SL as my main camera despite owning Ms. The Sigma is nice too but I would expect them to be similar (yet the 50 is proper metal and glass and true optics, the Sigma needs software to correct the image (like all Sigma AF lenses). I show it in 1 video, with and without lens profile turned on.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Come on man. What you mean with : "If I ever test the Sigma"? You buy unnecessary Voigtländer stuff all the time - why not best 50mm Sigma ever? 😛
I think I heard a point repeatedly made about M-mount lenses being specifically designed for the flange distance of an M camera and for the sensors in M-cameras. As a result a real test would be to compare the 50 mm Voigtlander APO on an M camera with the Sigma 65 on an SL or a Panasonic S... although by definition and again because of the compactness of M cameras and the short distance between lens and camera an M should give results slightly inferior to the SL combination. One of the reasons the 35 mm f 1.4 for the SL system is supposed to be superior to any 35 mm for the M system. Any idea on the matter?
I'm soooo confuuuused... last week we were being told that lenses such as the APO-Lanthar are too "clinical" because they're too sharp, and now we're being told the Sigma 65 "smashes" the APO-Lanthar because it's, erm, sharper...? I'm starting to think I should just take to drink and adjust the sharpness of my images that way: "Today I'm in Poland pairing the new Leica 77mm Apo-Plutocron with 192-proof Spirytus Rektyfikowany, and I'm sure my images won't be clinical but I might have to go to a clinic myself..."
Hi James, yes it's only fair to call me out on this! I think the shallow DOF from the 65mm vs 35mm made the lens more useful for portraits as only a think slice in sharp focus. I need a rest from modern lenses so back to something older next!
I think for glamor and portraits one might be better served picking and choosing from the following: Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical III Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 Aspherical Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.2 Aspherical Voigtlander Nokton 75mm f/1.5 Aspherical The Sigma 65mm f/2 is a sharp, general purpose.
Hello, strange comparison ... From my experience, as well as from the tests done by, for example, Christopher Frost on the E mount, it is clear that the Sigma C is very far from 50 APO or 65 APO. And stopping down these lenses only serves to increase depth. Something is wrong with your hardware connection
Let's not get crazy here. Exciting times. Looks like lenses are getting better corrected and more affordable. APO-Lanthar has better chromatic aberration correction. Also, better coma correction although it's not a significant difference. Also, slightly less astigmatism. Did I mention distortion? I think you are getting the point by now.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Look at my other comment that Julius Sternfeld responded to. I think the sharpness issues you are seeing especially in the corners are due to you having a M-Mount APO-Lanthar and mounting it to a mirrorless camera. The APO-Lanthar should beat the Sigma in the corners. The lens is sold in M mount and E mount and the formula is slightly different and it's not just the mount. Use a M mount with adapter on Sony E mount and performance especially in the corners drops compared to the E mount version. If you have a M mount digital camera shoot the lens on the M mount and compare it to the L. I predict you will see sharpness differences. APO-Lanthar should reign supreme even with sharpness. I predict the issue you see on your L mirrorless camera should mirror the issue Sony shooters have seen.
Yeah, the best Sigma lens is the 65mm f2. All the other current DG DN offerings are sharp but are compromised optically with extreme distortion/vignetting or aren't as sharp corner-to-corner like the 65mm is. The f1.4 and f1.2 offerings are freakishly huge, but at least they're auto-focusing. The 65mm strikes the perfect balance of sharpness, bright aperture and size. But the only reason why one should get the Sigma is if they personally like super-sharp photos - otherwise check out the 65mm f2 APO from voigtlander on E-mount. It's actually even sharper than the Sigma, way closer minimum focus distance at 1:2 magnification, and the colors and micro-contrast are more artistic and beautiful. But as Matt says, it might be too sharp for your liking if you're a Leica/manual lens shooter.
I do not like 50mm Lenses, I like any Lens from 45mm and shorter and any Lens from 55mm and longer, but I must defend the 50mm Lens, because it is easier to design a tele Lens and have excellent to outstanding optical performance than a 50mm or shorter ! I do not use autofocus much, 99.99% of the time I focus manual, so I have the much more versatile Lens Voigtländer Macro APO-Lanthar 65mm 2.0 which performs better than the sigma overall ! 😉 If you haven´t tried the Voigtländer Macro APO-Lanthar 65mm 2.0 then try it, I can very highly recommend it ! Back to the Voigtländer APO-LAnthar 50mm 2.0 (Sony E-mount) , it is SHARPER than the Sigma used on 42 or more megapixels Cameras ! I have heard the The Voigtländer version for Sony E-mount are better performing than the Leica M-mount version. Maybe you should think of upgrade to 60 megapixels Camera !?
Thanks CP, yes someone else mentioned the 65 E. I’m still have with my 50, the results were just a surprise. Also happy with 24mp otherwise I’d need a new computer!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I can recommend the Mac M1 with 16GB RAM 😇 My file-sizes grew from 20 to 80 and now 120 megapixel for one image, but I REALLY love those images ! I also got new extern harddiscs.
Maybe you have a bad copy of the 50mm apo or a miracle copy of the sigma 65mm 🤔 I own both and nothing comes close to the 50mm apo. I have images from the 50 on the M11 that have such a grazy micro contrast and sharpness that I am surprised every time I look at them. The sigma is the best of the DG DN line though 👍🏼😁
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I think that might be it 👌🏼 I used both on high megapixel cameras: Sigma on Sony R4 and Apo on M11... Than in my case the apo is better. Allthough as said I love both ☺️
I think you did the right test Maurice, the 50 mm APO on an M camera and the Sigma on Sony-it could have been an SL or a Pana S, all cameras that the lens is designed for.
I was worried that the lenses work with profiles to get the best from them so it would need to be a bit more advanced perhaps to get the best from these electronic lenses. (vs simple RF lenses for M mount say)
@@jonathanparkes8977 One Camera I really want is a compact full frame (24x36mm) sensor Camera in the style of the first version of Contax T and the Minox 35 ML, just digital and with a very good EVF !
Maybe 🤔 I’m missing something comparing a 50 mm to a 65 mm Is quite different focal length. Maybe you should have tested both 65mm one from Voiglander and the one from Sigma will have been a better comparison. Please do it right same focal length :)
Thanks Cesare. Yes 65 vs 65 would make more sense but there is no Leica M 65mm lens. The closest option is the popular 50mm APO. Agree the FL are different so it might be hard to relate the 2 lenses.
Extremely irresponsible to rate a Sigma lens above a Voigtlander simply because Sigma lenses are universally known to be garbage lenses. I unfortunately own a few of them.
I think I disagree with this review. Looking at the building images for infinity focus the Voightlander has far more 3D pop, and the Sigma looked sterile and bland and too clinical. Even the images with the Panasonic 50mm 1.8 had some 3D pop. No offence but I don't see what you're seeing, and I think taking the crop above the building shot may prove there is better edge sharpness, but the overall image lacks the 3D pop IMO. But I enjoy these reviews. Keep it up.
What is "sterile and bland " supposed to mean? It sounds rather subjective ("clinical" is too, up to a point,, we may not have the same experiences of "clinics" ;o) In Matt's defence, he is analysing the lenses in terms of details/sharpness/resolution which are objective criteria that anyone can check, relate to and understand. Analysing lenses in terms of blandness or "sterileness" may not lead us very far except probably biased arguments. Just a thought...
@@BrunoChalifour Bruno, one day you wake up and realise that certain camera and lens combos produce a stunning 3 Dimensional effect. I woke up to it when I researched Pentax cameras and bought into their system. Now I had 3D pop. This is not subjective at all, it forms part of lens design. The best way to show you is if you take a full look at this Camera Conspiracy video about 3D pop. When Kasey gets to the point where he compared the 3D pop of the Voightlander 21mm f/3.5 and the zero 3D pop of the Canon 20mm, you will see what the 3D pop means and how it translates to screen or even prints. Hopefully you will understand that this is not a subjective trait, and once you see this you cannot unsee it. The further you go on from here you can learn all about the different kinds of 3D pop. Please watch the video: th-cam.com/video/rxnOTSQyQmI/w-d-xo.html
@@stevenjohnson4283 Thanks for your detailed answer and sharing of experience, also giving references. I do think that this is the best part of these TH-cam channels when the comments bring something substantial and facts, experiences, to the table and not just "opinions", most of the time flat-when people are not just there to speak about themselves, as in a mirror, and their equipment, in comments often totally disconnected from the point of the video. So again thank you... again. I watched the video and I must say I am still "not awake and still not realising" thence my "subjectivity" point earlier. The analysis we are watching on the video, although full of good intentions, is technically problematic and, as a result, I have a problem with its conclusions. Another factor is probably, I must confess, that I have never looked for "pop" or "3-D" effect in my two dimensional photographs and as a result I may not know what I should be looking for, where I should be looking for it and how I should be looking for it. But I learnt something thanks to you: that some of us can see "a stunning 3 dimensional effect" I'll remember that (even though, frankly, I never saw that in the video or anyone else's photographs. Possibly my vision or the way my brain processes visual information. All the best. PS: I realise that did not explain what was "technically problematic" in Kasey's demonstration: 1-two different focal lenses (the longer one will always translate in a physically flatter rendition of the subject/image), and different depths of field, 2-color balance, but above all density and contrast are not the same for the two images so it is very difficult to compare the actual optical qualities of the two lenses, (because we are also comparing their different densities and contrasts, two things that depends on the default settings of the camera, the image-processing software and the display not the lens. Another thing we do not know if the two images were shot at the same time, with the same lighting conditions (which may be the case, in which case it also tells us about the different coatings of the lens and possibly the different processing default selected by the processing software... but we do not know). In other words it is not exactly a very "scientific"/reliable test. But in any case I must confess again, I cannot actually read the results/differences except the ones I have just mentioned.
@@BrunoChalifour I'm glad you watched the video. When I saw the comparison shot of Kasey's keyboard by the Voightlander and the comparison with the Canon RF lens, it was very plain to me that the voightlander image was more dimensional. I'll give you an example on the Wikipedia page for Chromatic Aberrations. Many 3D effect people are saying that Chromatic Aberrations is what creates the 3D effect, as it is analogous to a 3D camera which has two lenses offset to one and other. The blue and red filtered glass a person wears when watching a 3D movie brings it all together. The red and the blue channels of color are separated by the lens and hit the sensor at slightly different times, and give the 3D effect. So to make a single lens behave like a stereo lens setup on a 3D camera, the image is offset down the single lens. Red and Blue becomes purple and we see the purple fringing. It is an optical illusion through the lens. Please look at the photo from the wikipedia page on Chromatic Aberrations here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chromatic_aberration_(comparison).jpg You will see that the upper image is clean, but the lower image is blurry, however if you the lower image appears to have depth, and if you squint a little further, it is more noticable. Here's the original wikipedia page on CA's en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration Ken Wheeler AKA Theoria Apophisis also goes to great lenght to explain how Chromatic Aberrations in lenses create the 3D pop or dimensionality. Watch Kens video here: th-cam.com/video/XpvLCOwAaEs/w-d-xo.html Kens explanation is thats the way it is like it or not. Chromatic Aberrations creates image depth. Now there are a number of video game maker channels on youtube, where they explain how they use Lens Aberrations in video games to create a more cinematic visual experience. Earlier video games lack an organic feel, so the adding of lens aberrations adds to the experience. So they add lens bloom, and flares, anamorphic flares and Chromatic Aberrations. One such game is shown with Chromatic aberrations on and off, and on the image appears to have more ambience. Here is the game "The Division" Beta test with chromatic aberrations on. IMO it creates a cinematic feel to the image. The image sharpness is REDUCED with CA's on. Now we see that exact same thing in lenses. A lens with CA's will have more depth, as opposed to a low CA lens the image looks flatter. Printed images will look flat: th-cam.com/video/iVqYPD2_-c4/w-d-xo.html I recently saw a youtube video about CGI movie makers doing a remake of the Star wars Death Star trench run. One of the lead designers added Cromatic Aberrations to improve contrast. Here's the video: th-cam.com/video/K3b_S_qtBgc/w-d-xo.html Now there is a youtube channel called "Straight out of Camera" and he too shows images from renown 3D pop lenses like Zeiss 55mm 1.4 Otus. Straight Out of Camera is sort of at an academic level discussion on lens analysis. Check out some of the video discussions on Dimensionality: th-cam.com/video/8hBvVlD6IM8/w-d-xo.html One last thing I'll do for you is show you a couple of Christopher Frost videos, but It starts at the sample images of a building and you can see the dimensionality between the lenses. Just remember to immediately pause the video to look at the image, and set it to the highest quality to see: Sigma 50mm 1.4 EX th-cam.com/video/H5w1H4VUH5E/w-d-xo.html Zeiss 50mm 1.4 th-cam.com/video/qk3tVNuWIOA/w-d-xo.html Now I've handed you a bunch of stuff on 3D pop/dimensionality........ The next level is on holographic looking images from lenses that take dimensionality to another level. And thats Leica and Zeiss cinema primes, and some vintage lenses. The Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 has gone beyond 3D pop/Dimensionality and is more a holographic rendering. I could show you a video from a rally car race from the 1980's where the footage has monster CA's but the IQ is absolutely holographic and dimensional. I know you're skeptical about this judging by your last responce. But this is a thing, and its not subjective - its lens design 101.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Ohh yeah just saw but my bad I should have been more precise their newer art lenses [which are not just adapted from their dslr art lenses to mirrorless] like 35, 20, 24 dg dn are even better ofc still big but not as much as that 50 but very few flaws.
In some ways I prefer the Panasonic lens build *because* it is plastic - as lovely as metal lenses are, there's always a small underlying concern about scratching or damaging the finish. There's far less of that with plastic lenses like the Panasonic.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I mean, I am no pro so I sold a bunch of thrifted vintage cameras to pay for it. Good deal already, even better when it's 60% off...
Sigma is a piece of cheap plastic. They need to setup up their game. Voigtlander destroying it in terms of optical quality and build. There is no chance sigma is better. But sigma is better than every single canon L lens with the same equivalent
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom oh I thought you said femboy lol. I mean it's cool if you are. No biases here bro. Get your hands on the Zeiss classic distagon 35mm f2
![[Part 1] รักมาไม่ทันตั้งตัว❤ หนุ่มสาวโสดถูกจับมาแต่งงานกันกะทันหัน แถมเธอยังเป็นหัวหน้าของเขา?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2pOOMkuFI0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Part 1] ทารกน้อยถูกทิ้ง👶 หญิงชราเก็บขวดขายเลี้ยงดูเขาจนโต #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nPTDvFCExks/mqdefault.jpg)
💫 MRLEICA LR PRESETS - mrleica.com/presets/
✅ BUY HERE: geni.us/tpYr
⭐ PATREON: 100+ Videos & Zoom - mrleica.com/patreon/
🚀 EBOOK: mrleica.com/ebooks/
▶ WATCH NEXT: See All Leica Videos - bit.ly/33H7pPq
📞 ZOOM: Not sure what camera or lens to buy? Arrange a call today - bit.ly/3lBkdgq
✅ CHECK PRICES: (US) ebay.to/2F0HoxY (UK) ebay.to/3ijzle2 (DE) ebay.to/3iqDNYs (FR) ebay.to/2ZJ3E75 (HK) ebay.to/32A8xBu
🛎 SUBSCRIBED?: Monthly Giveaways! bit.ly/3qET0ZO
📷 SEE MY KIT: mrleica.com/kitlist/
💫 MRLEICA LIGHTROOM PRESETS - mrleica.com/presets/
🚀 LEICA WORKSHOPS: mrleica.com/workshops/
▶ VIDEO PLAYLISTS: mrleica.com/youtube/
🎞 NEED FILM?: mrleica.com/do-you-need-film/
☕ COFFEE: Thank Matt with a coffee - www.paypal.com/paypalme/MrLeica
Thank you for the review Matt. I had a chance to try the entire I-series lenses at WPPI in Vegas this week. The 65mmm f2 stood out from the rest. I love the focal length and the rendering. The lens is extremely sharp from F2 on. I was thinking of getting the 85mm F1.4 for my Sony but now I am giving this lens serious consideration. The built quality reminds me of Leica lenses!!
Thanks for confirming. Yes this series is good. I particularly liked this and the 90.. 35 also good. I reviewed the 85 too.
I use this lens on my Leica CL as a short tele. Works great! It's so small, it doesn't feel very big and heavy on the CL either.
Thanks Don, Ah yes I meant to mention the CL as a nice combo. Agreed.
Likewise.
I have hard time removing this 65mm from my Sigma fp... It's such a great combination!
I am not a sharpness whore by any mean, but I shoot mostly streets at night and having a good amount of sharpness means I can bump up the ISO and still have plenty of sharpness remaining. And as a "between 50 to 75mm" kind of shooter, this lens is perfect for me.
Also despite this lens being super sharp, I don't feel it to be dull or clinical/soulless. Maybe it's the contrast, or the colors or the combination with the superb fp colors... I don't know. But I find it very pleasant. 😉
Thanks Yoann, yes I enjoyed the FL more than expected too!
The reason for the Sigma 65mm f/2 out performing the Voigtländer 50mm f/2 in your test has to do with the Voigtländer being optimized for the Leica M-mount and not for the Leica L-mount. The filter stack thickness between the M-mount and L-mount are different enough to affect the optical performance of the Voigtländer lens on the L-mount. When both lenses (optimized for the Sony E-mount) are tested on a 42-megapixel Sony camera, the Voigtländer is perhaps the better performing lens.
In his testing, Christopher Frost found that the Sigma 65mm f/2 had less vignetting than the Voigtländer 50mm f/2, but the Sigma produced moderate pincushion distortion; whereas, the Voigtländer was nearly distortion free. Also, the Voigtländer had better close-up image performance over the Sigma, but the Sigma had a little better flare control. As for bokeh, the Voigtländer had an edge. But when it came to longitudinal CA, the Voigtländer was clearly better.
In terms of overall optical performance on the Sony camera, the Voigtländer is a little better, but the Sigma offers autofocus, and it also delivers excellent image quality that makes it a great choice for general photography.
Thanks for sharing. Yes I did a follow up video about M glass on M bodies as I knew the APO was better than I showed here. I still have it and rate the lens. I appreciate you commenting and listing the differences.
That said, allegedly the sl cameras and in my personal experience Nikon z5 also have a thin sensor stack
@18yearsoldnot It's my understanding that the mirrorless Nikon bodies do have a reasonably thin sensor stack. So, you could use Voigtländer M-mount lenses (and M-mount lenses from other manufacturers) with an adapter, of course, with good effect on these Nikon bodies.
@@chesslover8829 yep, unfortunately I sold my z5 in anticipation of the z6iii, but holding off again because the DR performance of the z6iii is atrocious - I want something I can use for taking landscapes when hiking. Might just have to look at a used z6
@@18yearsoldnot I'm sorry to hear about the drop in dynamic range performance for the Z6III. What was Nikon thinking? I was a Nikon user. I've now gone with Sony.
I use this Sigma 65mm for video interviews for live music artists
But I’m really enjoying it for live music photography and 3/4 body 1/2 body portraits of the live performance portrait style shots . Love how it renders the background lighting.
Yes a strong performer for sure. I love the 90mm too that I reviewed last week. Might be good for your live music stuff
The 65mm is amazing, I’m glad you liked it. Thanks for the video. Also try the sigma 45mm, you may enjoy it more than you think. Less sharp, falloff to the edges. A joy to use and I like the results, it produces a nice look.
Thanks Julius!
I’m glad you liked the 65mm! I found that this is a great focal length for model shoots. I will be using mine for a shoot a week from now.
Sigma FP/FPL with a M to L adapter will make your setup very small. The downside is if you want the evf, you will have to buy separately. They are also not good cameras for using flashes.
Fingers crossed, I’m still hoping Sigma will eventually introduce a foveon sensor full frame camera with the L mount. It would be a very awesome camera to have!
Thanks Wei! Yes I too liked the 65mm FL for portraits.
Matt:
You're using the Leica mount Voightlander Apo on an adapter. It's going to give you soft edges because of the thick Panasonic sensor stack. Leica mount lenses adapted to mirrorless cameras like Panasonic and Sony always give softer edges. Cosina compensates by adjusting the element spacing when converting a lens designed for Leica to a model for the Sony. And who knows maybe your Leica adapter for the Panasonic isn't perfectly aligned. You should ask to borrow a Sony mount Voigtlander Apo and a Sony Body to test the difference between a Leica mount Voigtlander adapted to a Panasonic and a Voigtlander lens sold with a Sony mount. The edges on the two lenses will be dramatically different.
Hi CF, sorry to confuse. The "real" test shots are all with the Leica SL which is modified for RF (M) lenses. I used the Lumix only for the few garden shots for variety (and when testing SL verses S5 in those videos there is little difference. Sony is the one with the corner smearing etc).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt there has to be something going on with the results of the Apo Lanthar on the Leica SL - can't even get a somewhat sharp edge until 5.6? Corner results must be horrible. Look at every other test online. I don't have the 50 Apo, but I have the 35 Apo and it's pretty crisp to the corners wide open. Cosina claims the 50 Apo is sharpest lens they've ever created.
Either your adapter is out of alignment or the lens is. PS I like both you and your channel, but something here needs further investigation🙂.
@@c.f.384 - Sigma used to put Apo on some of their film era lenses. Strange to have the Art series and C lenses sharper than Apo lenses of other manufacturers and yet Sigma does not put Apo on such lenses of theirs.
@@c.f.384 I recently got 35 and 50 apo and the sharpness is ridiculous, no need to mention the microcontrast and 3d pop. It is worth the money if you are going for the best IQ, and autofocus is not your primary concern. I also own a 24mm sigma i series which is also good, but never touched it once after I got the APOs.
@@c.f.384 thanks, I’ll do a follow up test as some say it performs worse on SL vs M.
Hello Matt,
I am new to your channel and just got a Leica SL and this lens recently, and I really gives me shock that how sigma lens perform comparing to the old lenses. I also uses a Leica Summicron-R 50mm F2 lens with adapter, and comes out the 65mm f2 is just impressive and more versatile. Thanks for your videos! They really gives me good recommendation when I am buying some new lenses!
Thanks for the feedback and welcome to Leica! Go to MrLeica.com (link below) and get the Leica welcome pack for SL. Yes modern Sigma lenses are very perfect. If you want more character get older or Voigtlander or others.
I don’t want to say it but I will, I told you 😂🤷🏻♂️. I really really looking forward for their Contemporary 50 mm f2
Haha yes you did, thanks Gustavo!
Hey Matt you
I really appreciate these third party lens reviews because camera shops where I live in Sydney Australia seem to prefer to stock original manufacturers products only, the staff are often unfamiliar with many accessories and lenses I’ve seen on TH-cam channels meaning ordering them from the shop or internet without having ever held them or tried them
Many thanks Ron
Thanks Ron, happy to help!
Dear Matt, thanks for the test! It confirmes what I have already experienced with the 28-70 mm Sigma - great lens for the money. Did shoot my son’s wedding recently- wanted to have AF to more enjoy the wedding. So, happy with it. Just this Sunday night at a Jazz club - went back to my 75 mm Voigtlander and loved it …
Thanks and yes agreed! I sometimes use AF for weddings for ease.
Did you use the mist filter and THEN apply your preset ? Either way which strength if most filter and brand please
Yes, see Poland video 1 for the filter info
Hi dear Matt, I was very busy in the last 3 months and could not follow your videos regularly , then when I came back again it was all about Artisan Chinese lenses which wasn't very appealing (to me), but I have been a big fan of Sigma all the time never used their L Mount lenses but the art series with nikon f mount was amazing and I had a couple of other Sigma Nikon f mounts especially a wide zoom which was fantastic and super high quality... this video was great especially the moments I saw the kiev cameras and the jupiter lenses .... PS I should say the quality of your videos have improved dramatically both from a face-to-cam and an overlay point of view ,so well done and keep up the good work, Cheers, Nick
Hi Nick, thanks for the progression feedback. Yes it only took 270 videos but I feel i'm making progress as I learn! Yes not every video is for everyone, cheap lenses, very expensive lenses, AF lenses, vintage lenses. I try to provide all that relate to Leica so to help the different groups of interests. Personally I like the older lenses the most and more of those to come! Matt
My only Sigma lens, that I use regularly is a 30mm f/1.4 DC lens with A-mount, that I use on a Sony A58, so the full frame equivalent focal length for the lens is 45mm. My other prime lens for the A58 is the 20mm f/2.8 lens originally designed and produced by Minolta, but mine is newer and does carry the Sony logo.
It's a kit, I'm happy to use, when I'm not shooting film - I have even been tempted to pick up a Minolta Dynax, and see how the Sigma performs with film, but I haven't done that yet.
Thanks, yes I hope to test the 30mm and 56mm at some stage.
Hi Matt. I just got one of these lenses 2nd hand, and the focus was not linear. Turned it the lens had firmware 1.1, need to have 1.2 for the linear setting to work. It feels great, almost like a manual lens, though the minimum setting is 300 degrees, not 90 degrees like on the Lumix lenses. You can update the lens firmware through your Lumix S5, just put the 1.2 .plf file on a formatted SD card and power on the camera, go into "Firmware Version" and hit update.
Thanks Kim, great tip!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You're welcome. After testing some more yesterday, nah, not exactly like a manual, I wish it was manual or had a focus clutch, I don't care for autofocus either. And the Sigma lens seems to drain the battery of the S5 far faster than the native lenses...
Might be worth doing a similar comparison again but with the CV APO 50 on your M240 and the Sigma 65 on the SL. If the APO is working right it should be very sharp in the corners. The SL does have a thinner sensor stack to accommodate M lenses but they still perform best on an M body. I believe the M240 has a cover glass of 0.8mm and the SL has 1mm sensor stack. It doesn’t sound like a big difference on paper but in practice it can be quite significant for certain lenses.
Thanks Mike, great tip. Yes I was surprised at the result too. Thanks for the precise info, perfect.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom All good. The Sigma is a beautiful lens though! I borrowed a friend's copy for a short while and was blown away by it. I never purchased it though, I couldn't quite think of what I would use the 65mm focal length for. Maybe need to borrow it again... haha
Interesting comparison. On any other L-mount camera (Sigma, Panasonic) the argument against M-mount lenses is strong, because of the different sensor stacks thickness. So one either uses native L-mount lenses or adapts from a DSLR standard (not rangefinder).
I would like to comment on the rather dismissive approach to the Panasonic lens... which I can understand from a purely physical encounter. But one must consider that the Lumix S system is hybrid still/video and so the lenses are designed to that end. The primes are extremely good performers, are weather-sealed, have identical sizes and filter rings (great for matte boxes and gimbals) and are otherwise optimised for video (low focus breathing, etc.). You don't get an aperture ring but you get wider apertures, consistent at f/1.8, where as the Sigma i-series goes from f/2 to f/4.
Personally, I wish Sigma had not tried to produce yet another line of modern corrected lenses, especially as they miss the target by comparison to Panasonic. What if instead each lens was modelled after a particular example of classic glass... with a minimum number of elements. How cool would it be to have auto-focus and auto-exposure glass for L-mount, but with Planar, Sonnar, Helios-44, and other designs? And this could be done significantly heaper considering the most you might need is 7 elements.
Oh well, a fella can dream, right? In the meantime I have Contax and Pentax glass that works fine but doesn't have the AF advantage.
P.S. I think your idea of an L-mount film camera is smashing!
Thanks Robin and yes it would be very nice to have " L-mount, but with Planar, Sonnar, Helios-44" :)
The the Lumix S5 regularly dropping in price to be a bargain, I am tempted at giving it a try. Paired with this Sigma and it's 200MP sensor shift mode, it should make for a great architecture/landscape setup.
Good idea TW, yes Lumix often do good deals. I still need to try that feature on mine!
Hello Matt!
I’ve been watching quite a few of your videos and wanted to ask how you find the focus ring on the sigma’s compared to the voigtlander? I know auto focus lenses tend to not have great manual focus rings because they’re not as smooth the have a shorter throw so less precise.
Thanks!
Hi, yes you can't compare focus by wire lenses to proper manual focus lenses. I really don't enjoy focus by wire lenses and only own 2 both which I use for AF only. You'll be better to buy a cheap soviet MF lens if you enjoy MF.
I have the Sigma and like it . I am considering the Voigtlander 65mm f/2 macro . It’s super super sharp. It may also need the black mist filter for portraits for sure .
Plod a review on the Voigt 65
Thanks, The Voigt 65 is only for Nikon F I think, I'm a Leica M (VM) guy so we don't have this lens option. The Sigma is a good performer for L amount users but I'm a sucker for metal and glass M mount lenses.
Dude, I was just now looking at this lens for my SL2-S.
My favorite is the Sigma 35mm 1.4 DG DN Art Lens. I bought the older Sigma 50mm 1.4 DG HSM Art Lens but it's massive and the autofocus isn't the best.
Still like the Voigtländers 35mm 1.2 and 50mm 1.2 more when it comes to rendering.
Thanks Alex, yes I much prefer the others for rendering too. Agreed Sigma 50/1.4 is huge!
Crikey! That's ridiculously sharp. I have the Voigtlander 50 APO, which is a superb lens; but this video reminds us that Sigma is desperately under-rated. Looks as though I need to get to work building another lens cabinet for Sigma glass, once I get over the shock...
Thanks! Yes I was really surprised too!
Hi Matt. Just bought the 65/2 - What density for Mist filter did you use in the video ?
Hi Peter, congrats! Great lens. I did a full video on the mist filter (1/8 if I remember well)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks, can’t wait to shoot it - I will look for your video on the mist filters ! 👍
Nice idea about the L mount film camera! With a high shutterspeed, to be able to shoot wide open 🙂
Thanks and yes!
On my SL2, my go to lenses are the Sigma 85mm f1.4 DG DN Art, followed by the Sigma 105mm f1.4 DG HSM Art. I do use an older Sigma 35mm f1.4 DG HSM Art when in tight rooms. Manual glass is TTARTISAN 90mm f1.25, 7ARTISAN 75mm f1 4, TTARTISAN 50mm f0.95 and TTARTISAN 35mm f1.4. Each has a look and use and dies the job. Except for maybe a 70-200 zoom, I don't need anything else
Nice Paul, some of the guys coming to my workshops use the 85/1.4 if using SL bodies. I like the TTA 50.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom the 50 is good, but the 90 is on another level. It is really exquisite in rendering. Might be worth a look for your style of portraiture.
Sigma is underrated. A fantastic review! Thanks Matt!
Thanks Lucy!
Loving your work Matt. This may sound as if I've given up after 45 yrs of buying camera gear, but nothing could be further from the truth. After many, many cameras/lenses over the years, I may have stopped at Lumix S5 for stills with Sigma 24/45/65 DG DN lenses. Before anyone gripes about S5 af, it is very good for stills and hey, manual focus is second nature to me, but rarely necessary. Sigma lenses are no longer cheaply made plastic rubbish. Yes, I have other great cameras for comparison and much experience. It is just a great camera and with the mentioned lenses, it gives fantastic images, as good as I will ever need. L monochrome baby ❤!
Thanks! Yes the S5 can take images as nice as my SL and those lenses are great. I've tested all of them and love the 90 too!
Hi Matt
I have the sigma 65 mm f2. I took it to Iceland last year with my Leica sl2s.
However I
found it very sharp but uninspiring . ( I’ll try it again before I sell it)I felt the images lacked that secret sauce or 3 D pop.
I have the m mount 50mm voitlander 3.5 heliar which has such a magical look which I LOVE. But I need another good 50mm lens for my sl2s. I’m thinking of the newish 50mm f2 SL sumacron or the LLL50mm f2 elcan
Yes, I've bought no Sigma lenses for the same reason. Nice but give me a proper M mount lens any day! I love the LLL Elcan. See my top 10 video. (I have the Heliar 3.5 in 2 versions also)
Matt, what 4 third party lenses would you recommend with the SL2-S?
Hi, that's a big question! In brief, Sigma for AF lenses, Voigtlander for MF lenses. If you want to discuss in detail you can get me here - mrleica.com/zoom/
Matt, I checked for you, you can actually hold the F5 with a decent lens on it in one hand. It's a great workout too!
Thanks Thomas, I hope to dust off my F5 soon! :)
I’m curious what you think of 65mm as portrait lens? I usually do 50 indoors and 50/85 outdoors or in studio BUT I feel like 65 would be a great middle ground
Hi, I really liked the 65 FL actually, more than expected! (as a 50mm guy). Less distortion, more bokeh!
So if the 65mm Sigma is ‘too sharp’ for digital, does the mist filter alleviate that issue?
Yes mist filters help for modern lenses but I still prefer vintage lenses
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I understand; I wasn’t implying otherwise. The question of ‘too clinical’ fascinates me. For example, I love the ‘look’ of the Zeiss Sonnar 1.5 ZM. It’s special for me. Of course, technically it’s flawed. Love your work and your channel.
I’ve got the 45mm brilliant lens and just ordered the 105 dg dn macro
Thanks David, yes many tell me the 45 is great. I'll maybe test at some point thanks.
Dear Matt, I had a conversation with Sebastian G here in the comments , that might be interesting for you. We talked about the corner performance of the apo lanthar. You could test our theory, that it would perform much better on an Leica M camera. The E-Mount version has excellent corners according to a test Sebastian mentioned. Your test shows that the corners are weak on the SL with M lens, witch I also experienced with all my Voigtlander lenses on my SL.
Even the SL2-S is much better at the edges and corners with M lenses than the original SL 601. And the Voigtlander 50 APO is insane on the M11. The Sigma does have it beat with regard to wide open vignetting, though.
Hi Julius, I spoke with one of my Patreons and yes some lenses have been shown to perform better on M bodies. I will do a mini test SL vs M when I get a chance and share here.
I agree with the manual focus lenses being more rewarding. Personally, I enjoy more taking photos with the M246 than the SL. It is hard to leave the SL behind though since it is so fast to use with autofocus lenses.
Thanks Thomas, for portraits I prefer the SL for all lenses but I still keep my M.
I have the 65mm Apo E mount that does macro, can you compare it to the Sigma on the Sony mount? For some reason they don't
make L mount CV lenses
If I ever get that lens and a Sony yes
would be a nice one too... but I think I stick with 45 and 90 for now :)
Thanks, yes too many nice lenses! :)
Your ears are looking nice and sharp in this video 👍
Haha thanks, I’m guessing the focus was off. I was when I used to record with vintage MF lenses.
I would love an L mount film camera!!! I am more film than digital, but both work for me!!!
Thanks Brian, some new film work to come as soon as I can.
Even though it's too big for how I like to run, the Sigma 18-35mm APS-C lens is just amazing. Paired with the Sigma sd Quattro it has no weakness other than size. I really wish Sigma would try their hand at M-mount lenses :)
Thanks Patrick!
That's what I've bee doing - I use my M11 for ports but have a Sony with a CZ 55mm 1.8 in the bag - just in case i have a very lively subject . The SL2-S is starting to temp me with those small metal Sigma primes.
Thanks Joseph, great combo. Agreed normally MF lenses are fine it’s just on those occasions!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom quick question - when using your SL2 to manual focus - do you still have to zoom in to nail the focus ? or is the screen big enough?
I’m right there with you, the sl2’s look a lot more affordable to own with lens choices like these.
the 50 VM APO is made for the M mount, and while the SL is designed to accommodate the Leica M lens designs, it's still not fully optimized for the L-mount, and therefore the edge/corners will not be as good.
Thanks. Yes the 50 APO is better than I show in this video. It's an amazing lens. I now have the M10 so it should really shine on that.
Thanks so much for your insightful reviews. I’ve been listing after the Voigtlander APO lenses thinking they’d be the sharpest. Great to find out I can save some money and get the Sigma lenses that were basically made for my camera anyway (Sigma FPL). I’ll buy some more affordable Chinese manual lenses for when I’m wanting to have a more intimate photography experience.
Thanks James, the APO might be as sharp on a M body but yes Sigma did great job!
Great stuff, thanks. I wonder if you got the copy I flagged...
Thanks Dominic, my 65 is one of the ones doing the rounds in the UK :)
Great video again Matt. I own the Lumix 50 and 85 both 1,8 and I'm selling them as like you say they look like plastic toys and chromatic aberrations are part of the result of such light and inexpensive lenses.
Hi Didier, I too have the plastic fantastic 50mm Lumix! Still need to make a video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom lol 😂 plastic was fantastic in those old days !!!
So, I've used Sony's 50mm 1.2GM for a few weddings now, and I feel like everything else I've ever used is just a silly toy, now. I can't stress strongly enough how much this is the most perfect lens I've ever used.
I have sold my S1 and the lenses, and I've using the A7iv and I'm ordering the 50mm 1.2 tomorrow. It's just -- I always want to be using something different than everyone else, and I feel like you're the same kind of person, but I strongly encourage you to rent the A7iv and the 50mm 1.2 for a few shoot. It stays locked on the eyes in continuous AF mode and there is LITERALLY zero CA. And it focuses to 0.4m!
Anyway, I await your review. :-)
Hey Sean, thanks and nice! Congrats. Look out for a video coming soon, you might be able to relate and it includes a 50mm f1.2! :) ..0.4m is impressive!
Awesome! Please review 40/ 35mm sigma f1.4 & 1.2
Thanks Mark, I need a break from modern lenses for a bit but maybe in the future!
Put me down for an L mount film camera! I’ve been using the Nikon 85 f1.8 it’s just a little long for my taste and a little sterile too. Sigma seems to really have their focus (pun intended) on affordable, well made, and laser sharp lenses. I’m glad you mentioned the ProMist the other day because they’re just way too sharp to shoot even on my little sigma FP compared to the fast 50s I’ve been shooting. Cheers!
Thanks and yes agreed they’re producing great lenses right now!
Hi Matt! Thanks for the review. Your models and shots are amazing as usual. Just a small remark that may bias your overall conclusion: you are compairing Leica mount APO 50/2 to the Sigma 65/2 which is known to be not up to the optical quality of the E-mount APO 50/2. I would really be interested knowing the result of an E2E mount comparision.
Thanks, yes if I ever start testing E mount i'll be sure to share the results, thanks!
I don't think there's anything better than the voightlander 65 apo... That sigma is sharp but it's too clinical and flat compared to the pop and color of the apo
Yes Voigtlander lenses have more character for sure! I use them a lot
As you explore autofocus lenses for your Leica 601, and wonder if fully manual is really that good and should you buy autofocus lens. I’ve been wondering and watching all those lenses and your journey, in the same boat. I’m concluding manual focus M lenses of Leica, Voigtländer, and Zeiss are really the best lenses in the world. And while I’m being seduced by autofocus too, you’ve lead me to think the only autofocus lens to have are real Leica SL lenses. My dilemma now is which one, zoom or prime, as I can only budget one, flip flopping between 35/50 prime. I might even go all in and get the SL 50mm f1.4.
Thanks William, for me I’ll shoot MF as long as I can but yes owning one AF lens for me is probably sensible. Yes if you love Leica then SL lenses are great, just be careful with the size of a Lux. Cron are better size.
M lenses are only the "best lenses in the world" for M-bodies but are not meant to compete with a fair advantage over L-mounts on SL or S cameras.
Another interesting comparison will be Sigma 65mm f2 vs Sigma 50mm f1.4. The 65mm is nice and small and the 50mm is big. I wonder if it’s superior on IQ also since it’s a much newer design.
Thanks Wei, these new f2 lenses are much smaller than the fat Art lenses. The size is good I think.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom True, but don’t you wonder on the back of your mind, which one is sharper? :)
Haha, told ya the 65 was awesome!! Glad you liked it!! While the Lumix 50mm may not be as sharp it does have good character especially the bokeh.
Thanks! yes! :) Yes i'm looking forward to testing the Lumix more.
I am a bit surprised by your sharpness conclusions. Have you ever looked at tests done by lenstip? The resolution especially corner resolution in those tests favors the Apo-Lanthar. However, both their tests I think were done on a 42MP Sony and not Leica. Bad copy of the Voigtlander?
I heard that the Voigtlander performs best on Leica M cameras. There seem to be some corner problems on mirrorless cameras. I noticed some sharpness loss and color shift on my Leica SL . At iso 6400 in darker conditions you can clearly see heavy color shift in the corners. This seems to be the case with all my Voigtlander lenses. After all they are designed for M cameras. As far as I can tell, you don’t have these problems with sigma or other L mount lenses. The test, you mentioned, was surely done with the e-mount version of the lens. They must have optimized the lens design for Sony cameras, so you get great corner performance. It’s obvious, that the Sony e-mount lens is different from the Leica m-mount version. Only the E-mount offers a fair comparison between the lenses. The apo lanthar seems to be the better lens. No surprise really, it can even compete with a 8000 Euro Leica apo lens. Crazy 😜.
@@juliussternfeld428 This is a factor. The Apo-Lanthar has an E mount and M mount version, and the optical formula is not exactly the same. If you buy an M mount Apo-Lanthar and then use an adapter to mount to Sony E the corner performance will visibly be poor in comparison to the E mount version. Matt is using the M mount with an adapter to L. I am not sure if it has the same issue as using the M mount with adapter on a Sony. Many rangefinder lenses have issues when mounted to mirrorless. Leica did some special things, so M mount lenses work well on the SL? That is probably only with native Leice lenses though? Or does the SL still have issues with Leica M lenses like other mirrorless cameras?
@@sebastiang7183 they say that the Leica SL works better with m-mount than other mirrorless cameras. I think Leica uses software corrections for their own m-lenses. But that is far from ideal and doesn’t work with Voigtlander. I assume that m-lenses and SL cameras don’t work together as smoothly as Leica suggests. That’s my experience with the original SL. I don’t know, if newer SL cameras with better sensors have an easier job.
A Patreon told me that some M lenses have been shown to perform worse on the SL. I will do a follow up test when I get a chance to compare the lens on the SL and M.
@@juliussternfeld428 If I had to guess I would agree with you based on issues seen with other mirrorless cameras. Leica might do some software correction for their own lenses, but probably do not do anything for third party like Voigtlander. All I know is that for that lens there is a M-Mount and E-Mount for Sony mirrorless. If you buy the M-Mount and add an adapter the performance is poor in comparison to the E-Mount so the optical formula has been tweaked.
Hi I am very happy for you, your right the Sigma 65mm may be super good, but I will stay with my Nikon D850 and the Canon 1D X MII with the lens I have I can do the same. Finding good model for the work do is very hard now, but I am very for you.
Thank you, I was only borrowing the 65mm but the results impressed me.
Love it too!
Thanks Steve!
This might not be a *fair* test for the apo.
The apo is designed for film and digital Leica M cameras. The SL has, I believe, a thicker IR filter in front of the image sensor that reduces image quality for non-telecentric lenses. Telecentric lenses are lenses where the light rays hit the sensor perpendicularly - which is not a requirement for film cameras at all.
Because of this, the voigtlander may perform better on a Leica M camera than on an SL. The SL does support Leica M lenses but that doesn't mean it is optimal form them.
You might find improved performance by adding a plano-convex 1500mm focal length lens in front of the lens. Philip Reeve suggests this in some cases. I have done some of my own simulation work and come to the same conclusions, but not with 50mm lenses (I only looked at 28mm lenses).
Thanks Josh, yes these results were bizarre. I've no clue what happened that day as I normally get great images from the APO. My benchmark lenses for all M lenses. It's normally fine on the SL. I use the SL as my main camera despite owning Ms. The Sigma is nice too but I would expect them to be similar (yet the 50 is proper metal and glass and true optics, the Sigma needs software to correct the image (like all Sigma AF lenses). I show it in 1 video, with and without lens profile turned on.
Hi Matt. What about compare 50 APO Lanthar with Sigma Art 1,2 50mm I think it is real competitor to Lanthar according "best choice"...
Thanks. If I ever test the Sigma I can give my views.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Come on man. What you mean with : "If I ever test the Sigma"? You buy unnecessary Voigtländer stuff all the time - why not best 50mm Sigma ever? 😛
@@photofreaksk haha I don’t like to buy L mount. If it doesn’t work on a film camera I don’t value it haha (but really)
I mean Sigma for Sony E-Mount - and you can buy entirely a good Camera... 😛
I think I heard a point repeatedly made about M-mount lenses being specifically designed for the flange distance of an M camera and for the sensors in M-cameras. As a result a real test would be to compare the 50 mm Voigtlander APO on an M camera with the Sigma 65 on an SL or a Panasonic S... although by definition and again because of the compactness of M cameras and the short distance between lens and camera an M should give results slightly inferior to the SL combination. One of the reasons the 35 mm f 1.4 for the SL system is supposed to be superior to any 35 mm for the M system. Any idea on the matter?
Thanks Bruno, yes the APO is sharper than shown here. See my video, M glass better on M bodies.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes I have watched it and that is what made me buy my APO, and I am glad I did. ;o) Thanks again.
Great Video
Thanks! An oldie!
Congrats someone bought this from mpb I was on the fence about
Thanks, the 65 or 50 1.8? I saw a 50 1.8 in Mpb too but eBay was cheaper.
I'm soooo confuuuused... last week we were being told that lenses such as the APO-Lanthar are too "clinical" because they're too sharp, and now we're being told the Sigma 65 "smashes" the APO-Lanthar because it's, erm, sharper...? I'm starting to think I should just take to drink and adjust the sharpness of my images that way: "Today I'm in Poland pairing the new Leica 77mm Apo-Plutocron with 192-proof Spirytus Rektyfikowany, and I'm sure my images won't be clinical but I might have to go to a clinic myself..."
Hi James, yes it's only fair to call me out on this! I think the shallow DOF from the 65mm vs 35mm made the lens more useful for portraits as only a think slice in sharp focus. I need a rest from modern lenses so back to something older next!
I think for glamor and portraits one might be better served picking and choosing from the following:
Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical III
Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 Aspherical
Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.2 Aspherical
Voigtlander Nokton 75mm f/1.5 Aspherical
The Sigma 65mm f/2 is a sharp, general purpose.
Hello, strange comparison ... From my experience, as well as from the tests done by, for example, Christopher Frost on the E mount, it is clear that the Sigma C is very far from 50 APO or 65 APO. And stopping down these lenses only serves to increase depth. Something is wrong with your hardware connection
Thanks yes agreed the test results were wrong for this video (somehow). (Sorry) The 50mm APO is a stellar lens and I continue to use it.
Nicely explain
Thanks Vishal!
Let's not get crazy here. Exciting times. Looks like lenses are getting better corrected and more affordable. APO-Lanthar has better chromatic aberration correction. Also, better coma correction although it's not a significant difference. Also, slightly less astigmatism. Did I mention distortion? I think you are getting the point by now.
And the Voigtländer are sharper on Cameras with 42 or more megapixels.
And the Voigtländer (E-mount) are sharper on Cameras with 42 or more megapixels.
Thanks yes it was only really the sharpness that wow'd me, still impressive!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Look at my other comment that Julius Sternfeld responded to. I think the sharpness issues you are seeing especially in the corners are due to you having a M-Mount APO-Lanthar and mounting it to a mirrorless camera. The APO-Lanthar should beat the Sigma in the corners. The lens is sold in M mount and E mount and the formula is slightly different and it's not just the mount. Use a M mount with adapter on Sony E mount and performance especially in the corners drops compared to the E mount version. If you have a M mount digital camera shoot the lens on the M mount and compare it to the L. I predict you will see sharpness differences. APO-Lanthar should reign supreme even with sharpness. I predict the issue you see on your L mirrorless camera should mirror the issue Sony shooters have seen.
@@sebastiang7183 thanks yes I’ll try to do follow up testing the APO on SL vs M
Yeah, the best Sigma lens is the 65mm f2. All the other current DG DN offerings are sharp but are compromised optically with extreme distortion/vignetting or aren't as sharp corner-to-corner like the 65mm is. The f1.4 and f1.2 offerings are freakishly huge, but at least they're auto-focusing. The 65mm strikes the perfect balance of sharpness, bright aperture and size. But the only reason why one should get the Sigma is if they personally like super-sharp photos - otherwise check out the 65mm f2 APO from voigtlander on E-mount. It's actually even sharper than the Sigma, way closer minimum focus distance at 1:2 magnification, and the colors and micro-contrast are more artistic and beautiful. But as Matt says, it might be too sharp for your liking if you're a Leica/manual lens shooter.
Thanks and for mentioning the 65 E. Us Leica peeps forget that exists. Maybe they’ll make it in M mount too!
hi matt, can you do a cl review with de sigma 56 1.4, please
Hi Carlos, I might need to do some old lenses for a bit but yes i'll try at some point.
I do not like 50mm Lenses, I like any Lens from 45mm and shorter and any Lens from 55mm and longer, but I must defend the 50mm Lens, because it is easier to design a tele Lens and have excellent to outstanding optical performance than a 50mm or shorter ! I do not use autofocus much, 99.99% of the time I focus manual, so I have the much more versatile Lens Voigtländer Macro APO-Lanthar 65mm 2.0 which performs better than the sigma overall ! 😉
If you haven´t tried the Voigtländer Macro APO-Lanthar 65mm 2.0 then try it, I can very highly recommend it ! Back to the Voigtländer APO-LAnthar 50mm 2.0 (Sony E-mount) , it is SHARPER than the Sigma used on 42 or more megapixels Cameras ! I have heard the The Voigtländer version for Sony E-mount are better performing than the Leica M-mount version. Maybe you should think of upgrade to 60 megapixels Camera !?
Thanks CP, yes someone else mentioned the 65 E. I’m still have with my 50, the results were just a surprise. Also happy with 24mp otherwise I’d need a new computer!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I can recommend the Mac M1 with 16GB RAM 😇
My file-sizes grew from 20 to 80 and now 120 megapixel for one image, but I REALLY love those images ! I also got new extern harddiscs.
Maybe you have a bad copy of the 50mm apo or a miracle copy of the sigma 65mm 🤔
I own both and nothing comes close to the 50mm apo. I have images from the 50 on the M11 that have such a grazy micro contrast and sharpness that I am surprised every time I look at them.
The sigma is the best of the DG DN line though 👍🏼😁
Thanks Maurice! My 50 APO matched the Leica 50 SL APO so I think I just had a special Sigma copy! (The 50 might behave better on the M vs SL ... )
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I think that might be it 👌🏼
I used both on high megapixel cameras: Sigma on Sony R4 and Apo on M11... Than in my case the apo is better.
Allthough as said I love both ☺️
I think you did the right test Maurice, the 50 mm APO on an M camera and the Sigma on Sony-it could have been an SL or a Pana S, all cameras that the lens is designed for.
Can u do one vs APO 50 SL and APO 50 M ?
I'll like to if I get a chance. SL will win optically but the M may render nicer.
Damn, I haven’t got the 65 yet.
Haha sorry Chris!
Cosina could easily make an L-Mount film camera.
And if Cosina bought the right to the Contax name, then it will be perfect !
@@cameraprepper7938 well they could stick Voigtländer on it, which would be nice.
I was worried that the lenses work with profiles to get the best from them so it would need to be a bit more advanced perhaps to get the best from these electronic lenses. (vs simple RF lenses for M mount say)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom well Cosina built the Epson R-d1, make great digital lenses and film cameras. If they can't I don't know anyone could.
@@jonathanparkes8977 One Camera I really want is a compact full frame (24x36mm) sensor Camera in the style of the first version of Contax T and the Minox 35 ML, just digital and with a very good EVF !
Maybe 🤔 I’m missing something comparing a 50 mm to a 65 mm
Is quite different focal length. Maybe you should have tested both 65mm one from Voiglander and the one from Sigma will have been a better comparison. Please do it right same focal length :)
Thanks Cesare. Yes 65 vs 65 would make more sense but there is no Leica M 65mm lens. The closest option is the popular 50mm APO. Agree the FL are different so it might be hard to relate the 2 lenses.
L mount camera would be cool
We need a FF Leica CL size camera with EVF!
Extremely irresponsible to rate a Sigma lens above a Voigtlander simply because Sigma lenses are universally known to be garbage lenses.
I unfortunately own a few of them.
Ha thanks Scott. Image quality is ok on these newer Sigma lenses but I still buy Voigtlander
I think I disagree with this review. Looking at the building images for infinity focus the Voightlander has far more 3D pop, and the Sigma looked sterile and bland and too clinical. Even the images with the Panasonic 50mm 1.8 had some 3D pop. No offence but I don't see what you're seeing, and I think taking the crop above the building shot may prove there is better edge sharpness, but the overall image lacks the 3D pop IMO. But I enjoy these reviews. Keep it up.
Hi Steven, thanks for your thoughts. Yes I was only looking at the basics here of sharpness and fall off (in the building image)
What is "sterile and bland " supposed to mean? It sounds rather subjective ("clinical" is too, up to a point,, we may not have the same experiences of "clinics" ;o) In Matt's defence, he is analysing the lenses in terms of details/sharpness/resolution which are objective criteria that anyone can check, relate to and understand. Analysing lenses in terms of blandness or "sterileness" may not lead us very far except probably biased arguments. Just a thought...
@@BrunoChalifour Bruno, one day you wake up and realise that certain camera and lens combos produce a stunning 3 Dimensional effect. I woke up to it when I researched Pentax cameras and bought into their system. Now I had 3D pop.
This is not subjective at all, it forms part of lens design.
The best way to show you is if you take a full look at this Camera Conspiracy video about 3D pop. When Kasey gets to the point where he compared the 3D pop of the Voightlander 21mm f/3.5 and the zero 3D pop of the Canon 20mm, you will see what the 3D pop means and how it translates to screen or even prints.
Hopefully you will understand that this is not a subjective trait, and once you see this you cannot unsee it. The further you go on from here you can learn all about the different kinds of 3D pop.
Please watch the video:
th-cam.com/video/rxnOTSQyQmI/w-d-xo.html
@@stevenjohnson4283 Thanks for your detailed answer and sharing of experience, also giving references. I do think that this is the best part of these TH-cam channels when the comments bring something substantial and facts, experiences, to the table and not just "opinions", most of the time flat-when people are not just there to speak about themselves, as in a mirror, and their equipment, in comments often totally disconnected from the point of the video. So again thank you... again.
I watched the video and I must say I am still "not awake and still not realising" thence my "subjectivity" point earlier. The analysis we are watching on the video, although full of good intentions, is technically problematic and, as a result, I have a problem with its conclusions. Another factor is probably, I must confess, that I have never looked for "pop" or "3-D" effect in my two dimensional photographs and as a result I may not know what I should be looking for, where I should be looking for it and how I should be looking for it. But I learnt something thanks to you: that some of us can see "a stunning 3 dimensional effect" I'll remember that (even though, frankly, I never saw that in the video or anyone else's photographs. Possibly my vision or the way my brain processes visual information. All the best.
PS: I realise that did not explain what was "technically problematic" in Kasey's demonstration: 1-two different focal lenses (the longer one will always translate in a physically flatter rendition of the subject/image), and different depths of field, 2-color balance, but above all density and contrast are not the same for the two images so it is very difficult to compare the actual optical qualities of the two lenses, (because we are also comparing their different densities and contrasts, two things that depends on the default settings of the camera, the image-processing software and the display not the lens. Another thing we do not know if the two images were shot at the same time, with the same lighting conditions (which may be the case, in which case it also tells us about the different coatings of the lens and possibly the different processing default selected by the processing software... but we do not know). In other words it is not exactly a very "scientific"/reliable test. But in any case I must confess again, I cannot actually read the results/differences except the ones I have just mentioned.
@@BrunoChalifour I'm glad you watched the video. When I saw the comparison shot of Kasey's keyboard by the Voightlander and the comparison with the Canon RF lens, it was very plain to me that the voightlander image was more dimensional.
I'll give you an example on the Wikipedia page for Chromatic Aberrations. Many 3D effect people are saying that Chromatic Aberrations is what creates the 3D effect, as it is analogous to a 3D camera which has two lenses offset to one and other. The blue and red filtered glass a person wears when watching a 3D movie brings it all together. The red and the blue channels of color are separated by the lens and hit the sensor at slightly different times, and give the 3D effect. So to make a single lens behave like a stereo lens setup on a 3D camera, the image is offset down the single lens. Red and Blue becomes purple and we see the purple fringing. It is an optical illusion through the lens.
Please look at the photo from the wikipedia page on Chromatic Aberrations here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chromatic_aberration_(comparison).jpg
You will see that the upper image is clean, but the lower image is blurry, however if you the lower image appears to have depth, and if you squint a little further, it is more noticable.
Here's the original wikipedia page on CA's
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Ken Wheeler AKA Theoria Apophisis also goes to great lenght to explain how Chromatic Aberrations in lenses create the 3D pop or dimensionality.
Watch Kens video here:
th-cam.com/video/XpvLCOwAaEs/w-d-xo.html
Kens explanation is thats the way it is like it or not. Chromatic Aberrations creates image depth.
Now there are a number of video game maker channels on youtube, where they explain how they use Lens Aberrations in video games to create a more cinematic visual experience. Earlier video games lack an organic feel, so the adding of lens aberrations adds to the experience. So they add lens bloom, and flares, anamorphic flares and Chromatic Aberrations. One such game is shown with Chromatic aberrations on and off, and on the image appears to have more ambience.
Here is the game "The Division" Beta test with chromatic aberrations on. IMO it creates a cinematic feel to the image. The image sharpness is REDUCED with CA's on. Now we see that exact same thing in lenses. A lens with CA's will have more depth, as opposed to a low CA lens the image looks flatter. Printed images will look flat:
th-cam.com/video/iVqYPD2_-c4/w-d-xo.html
I recently saw a youtube video about CGI movie makers doing a remake of the Star wars Death Star trench run. One of the lead designers added Cromatic Aberrations to improve contrast.
Here's the video:
th-cam.com/video/K3b_S_qtBgc/w-d-xo.html
Now there is a youtube channel called "Straight out of Camera" and he too shows images from renown 3D pop lenses like Zeiss 55mm 1.4 Otus. Straight Out of Camera is sort of at an academic level discussion on lens analysis. Check out some of the video discussions on Dimensionality:
th-cam.com/video/8hBvVlD6IM8/w-d-xo.html
One last thing I'll do for you is show you a couple of Christopher Frost videos, but It starts at the sample images of a building and you can see the dimensionality between the lenses. Just remember to immediately pause the video to look at the image, and set it to the highest quality to see:
Sigma 50mm 1.4 EX
th-cam.com/video/H5w1H4VUH5E/w-d-xo.html
Zeiss 50mm 1.4
th-cam.com/video/qk3tVNuWIOA/w-d-xo.html
Now I've handed you a bunch of stuff on 3D pop/dimensionality........
The next level is on holographic looking images from lenses that take dimensionality to another level. And thats Leica and Zeiss cinema primes, and some vintage lenses. The Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 has gone beyond 3D pop/Dimensionality and is more a holographic rendering.
I could show you a video from a rally car race from the 1980's where the footage has monster CA's but the IQ is absolutely holographic and dimensional.
I know you're skeptical about this judging by your last responce. But this is a thing, and its not subjective - its lens design 101.
L mount film camera would be the last camera I will ever buy 😂
I was the same for years too ‘not a proper Leica’ and then eventually they caught up with me and they just work.
And you haven't even tried their art series lenses yet. They are even sharper at faster apertures. Yeah I know maybe too sharp to handle 😅
I have, see the 50 1.4 video. Great results but silly big.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Ohh yeah just saw but my bad I should have been more precise their newer art lenses [which are not just adapted from their dslr art lenses to mirrorless] like 35, 20, 24 dg dn are even better ofc still big but not as much as that 50 but very few flaws.
In some ways I prefer the Panasonic lens build *because* it is plastic - as lovely as metal lenses are, there's always a small underlying concern about scratching or damaging the finish. There's far less of that with plastic lenses like the Panasonic.
Yes thats a great counter argument and they are lighter to carry..!
So the mists are great but as you know I buy all the toys… if the primary goal is portraiture I’d recommend “glimmer glass”
Thanks Vic! I'm already on it but they've been out of stock for ages here
Crazy as Sigma used to mean "junk" lenses.
Yes.. I’m maybe older than I look and I always avoided Sigma when I shot Nikon (used almost everything else!)
Same here, what a difference a decade makes 😂.
Or Sigma could make a manual focus M mount version. Probably not.
Less likely but nice idea! :)
M mount too.
Yes!
compare with 65 APO, why 50?
No many brands make 65s for M or L mount so I just compared to the 50 APO I had with me in Poland
Guess I am buying it today. SIGH.
Haha, I wasn't expecting the results either!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I mean, I am no pro so I sold a bunch of thrifted vintage cameras to pay for it. Good deal already, even better when it's 60% off...
Sharpness doesn't matter for portraits it only matters for landscapes
Yes, I love the test shot result out over the city
Sigma is a piece of cheap plastic. They need to setup up their game. Voigtlander destroying it in terms of optical quality and build. There is no chance sigma is better. But sigma is better than every single canon L lens with the same equivalent
Thanks. I’m a Voigtlander fan boy so I buy those and not Sigma
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom oh I thought you said femboy lol. I mean it's cool if you are. No biases here bro. Get your hands on the Zeiss classic distagon 35mm f2