Neuman KH 310 VS ATC SCM 25A: Which One Should You Buy?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, I go over the differences between the old and new ATC SCM 25 monitors compared to the new Neumann KH 310 monitors. This debate has run on for long enough and has filled hundreds of discords and blog sites with differing opinions. Today, we put this all to rest!
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/ raynegrand
I've got an apollo, a hilo, and RME converters. The comment that you wouldn't need to even consider these speakers with an apollo converter is just untrue. Apollos conversion for the monitor outs is a flavor, not objectively bad. Don't be misled by that comment.
Thanks for sharing this, I actually agree with you. I realize I've become a tad bit spoiled. That said, the Apollo Twin X specifically is a touch too dark to work comfortably when mixing and mastering but work a lot better for recording and for production in my humble opinion. Still use my Apollo daily for recording duties because it makes recording so darn easy! At the end of the day, like myself, there's a reason you own so many converters after all. Thanks for tuning in 🙏
also appreciate the content not enough quality content on pro lvl gear on here mostly budget stuff lol
Thank you man it’s my pleasure! I totally agree! Trying to hopefully provide answers to questions I couldn’t find answers to online🙏
Check out the real deal! „ABACUS Mirra 14“
@@ProducerStefanSchnabel looks like a interesting monitor pair, hope you’re enjoying working on them! Thanks for tuning in 🙏
Neumann systems are so easy to integrate with their subwoofers and room calibration system, they are a no-brainer pretty much.
They do have really great technology 💯 great investment with their subs! Thanks for watching 🙏
lol, the ATC SCM 25A's are sooooo cheap ;)
I traded some vital organs for my pair - only one engineer was harmed in the making of this video 🤓😂 thanks for watching!
Hee, What converters do you use?
@@jorgefrias7889 hey Jorge, I’m currently using an RME ADI 2/4 as my DAC and mix bus converter. I record using a symphony converter and I run my Prism Lyra 2 AES into my current monitors and as a DAC with my any secondary monitor pairs occasionally as well as for my headphone monitoring. Planning on simplifying the setup a bit in a few months tho!
The problem for me with the ATC's is the music is so separated, that when playing music for fun including for clients, the music does not gel together. So I went with the Focal Trio ST6. They also provide great detail while still having a gel to the mix.
@@revelationsoundstudio focals are fun monitors for sure! It is very very important to have a well treated room and quality DAC with ATC monitors to have fun with them. Focals do have a more narrow and gelled sound for sure in the one trio6s but the new model of 6s they just released is a serious competitor in the monitor game for sure. The new mid range dome is super nice. That said, ATC is the truth! I’m an ATC guy for life. Quested, PMC, Amphion and PSI are definitely on my radar for second pairs as well. Thanks for watching! 🙏
I think they are awesome too. I'm sure I would have learned to work on them if I stuck with them.
I did however save $3,000 by going with the Focal Trio's which also can go 2 way and 1 way as well. 😊
@@revelationsoundstudio that is very true, you made the right call man, ST6’s are really dope, I gotta get behind a pair again
great insight mate, I work in House music and have a pair of 310s. I was thinking of getting the 750 sub only to use the room correction since the 310s have plenty of bass for my needs, But then I thought why not switching and "upgrading" to ATC SCM25 MK1. I play at very moderate level so I haven't pushed the 310s , I also have the Neumann NDH30 headphones for work gat night. would you advise me to keep the 310s over the atc25s mk1?
Honestly, I do believe you should keep the 310s instead. Especially if you don’t mix loud, but I’d still consider demoing the 750 sub to see how they interact with your 310s and low end detail. With the ATCs, you’ll definitely need a sub as well to make house stuff and that can get expensive for sure. Moreover, I’m realize I don’t really love producing music on the ATCs I’ve got as much as I enjoyed using the 310s. I’d say you’re in a good spot. If anything, I’d definitely save up toward the 420s. Those are some incredible monitors too! Hope this helps 👌
@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR I believe the 750 sub can be bypassed and still be used for the DSP on the 310's, which is a great option. I'd rather go for it than using sonarworks or IK , at the end of the day I'm all in the Neumann monitor ecosystem. I really appreciate your input and advise . much appreciated🙌
@zebastian21 my pleasure, no matter what you’re in a great spot with some great pieces! Wishing you the best brother 🙏
I saw a review on TH-cam saying the Neumanns are a completely different monitor with a sub - it makes the 310s much better. He still didn’t like the Neumanns after working with them for a year and plans to upgrade but they did the job. It’s called ‘My impressions after using the Neumann kh310’s for a year’ by systematic productions.
@@MadelnMachines I saw that review, it didn’t resonate with me to be honest. His criticism of the tweeter was inaccurate and I don’t believe he included very important information such as what converter or monitor controller he’s using, the kinds of cables he’s using, as well as the treatment of his space. I didn’t get the chance to hear his work either so I wasn’t sold on his review of those monitors at all. I would take it with a grain of salt
Hello !
What I don't understand is the frequency of the speakers, they don't go very low in frequency and would be better ???
For the mix I want to but for the mastering, you need speakers that go very low, below 30Hz to have a good tool, if they are serious.
kiss from France !
@@Sylvain_de_Boscherville essentially, some speakers had a lot of total harmonic distortion in the low end, so even if there’s low end down to 22 Hz, it still is unusable for mixing decisions because it’s too distorted or clipped. In this scenario, I’d definitely prefer a pair with less low end and more accuracy UNLESS I use the speakers with a sub. Thats where I would probably lean toward 310 + sub principally price point wise because the low end will be accurate all the way down to the bottom of its frequency response. That said, the ATCs have virtually no distortion at all the way down to the bottom of its playback but it doesn’t go as low. This means it will translate better above a certain frequency BUT you also can’t mix what you can’t hear. In both situation, a good sub is necessary for sure. Hope this helped!
ATC SCM 25A everyday, it's not even a question
Why ???
Totally dependent on a few factors. Thankfully I’ve used both models of the ATC 25a’s and Neumann 310s as well as other monitors from both companies with practically every major or high end converter on the market. I can’t say that the 310s were a bad monitor but I can say that they are fantastic with the Neumann sub. That said, watch this WHOLE video before taking anyone’s else’s advice out there cause there are a lot of people who have less than enough experience to truly speak on this topic. Thanks for checking out this video and thanks everyone for keeping the audio community honest! 🙏
Please compare the genelec ones series 8351/61 or s360a or 1237 sam monitors, and you will see how the differences from other brands increase a lot.
lol... 😂😂 Charlie warned us abt internet gurus 😂
Try the KSDigital A200 mk2. They are better then the Neumann (to my opinion)
What would you use as your sub with the ATC 25a? The 6.5 inch sub woofer concerns me 🤔
I like using a sub with the scm 25s because the rolloff in the low end isn’t as fun to work on or as round as I like my subs and low end to be without it. But I am completely comfortable working on them without a sub as long as I have some extra reference pieces around to double check things down there! Have a look at the frequency response on the 25s as well and note the low end in particular. Something to keep in mind! Thanks for watching!
oh yes and to answer your question since I didn't answer properly - an ATC sub is the way to go. It sucks cause they are so expensive but otherwise - phasing can be a big problem. The Neumann 810 is too big for this monitors but works great as well - the DSP helps but I do still stand by the ATC subs for the ATC speakers. Hope this helps!
I'm using Neumann Kh750 dsp. Perfect combination.
@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR @codymitchell4303
You don't need to mach brands on subs. Its a good idea to buy a sub that manages the crossovers, so you plug into the sub that filters the audio and then send the mid/highs freqs to the speakers that are set to "fullrange" on themselves. Or you can use an external system that cross over and adjust phase etc. Phase needs to be measured either way with a mic and software. You could for example play a kick trough fullrange sub only, then speaker only, have the mic at sweetspot, and move the sub until the audiowaves lines up perfectly in the daw.
Why is the video jerking like someone keeps doing terrible cut edits cant watch really wierd!
Noted! I’ve since hopefully become a little better with my editing skills, feel free to let me know if the more recent videos are better and I hope you’re still able to get value out of this one! Thanks for tuning in 🙏
What interface are you using for DAC on the mk2
I’m using the RME ADI 2/4 for playback and loop back! Best converter I’ve used, I prefer it even to the Lynx hilo
@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR yeah I’ve heard so many good things about the RME stuff I got a Hilo myself there’s just so much I/O on there and it’s hard to find interfaces with AES xlr ports which is essential for me atp
how does the kh420 compare?
The 420’s are definitely I a whole new league compared to the 310’s. Thats said, 750 sub brings the 310’s to a close enough level to the 420’s. I’m personally just a big fan or ATC monitors but the 420s are a great bang for your buck. In a perfect world, I might have a pair of monitors from both manufacturers in my studio. Thanks for watching!
Very curious as well, they have the same mid and tweeter but with different amps. They are an insane speaker and if the detail is there in the 310s the way it is in the 420s,, I highly doubt there is a better speaker in that price range. Good music is a magical experience on em and bad music is fucking torture.
The KH310 is, in my view, head and shoulders better than the Mk1 SCM25A. The first generation had a straight up trash tier tweeter, and it really let down the top end response of the speaker - it was muddy and harsh. The MK2 is I would say roughly on par if not slightly better, but different - the 310 has more extended, but more distorted, low end, where the 25A has less extension but is cleaner.
Both of them need subs.
@@davidfuller581 I wouldn’t say the 25s NEED subs, but they can definitely help! Thanks for watching! 🙏
In my use they really lack much of anything below about 40-50hz.
@@davidfuller581 I agree, I use Audeze headphones to double check things down that low because getting a room to accurately support subs that low is tough in the first place. That said, I do like the 25s with a sub pairing but I’ve be able to work around subs for a long time nevertheless and often don’t run to turning it on outside of production or writing sessions.
ATC MkI's (I own a pair of passive SCM40's MkI's), indeed have a HELL of an issue with their cheap as hell tweeters (SEAS ones for Active, Vifa/Peerless ones for Passive), harsh, unnatural, and they're so detached and leagues below their own Mid/Low drivers. I plan on re-designing my own pair with better drivers.
@@ThomasL ATC tweeters in general are a bit tough, have you considered switching to a different monitor line in that price range?
🙃 get a sub 1:48
I did! Watch till the end 🙌🏽
@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR yea i commented to early lmao 🤣 i watch all way to end oh well 😂🤣😂
@TrapBoiFuse561 😂😂😂 thanks for watching brother ! 🙏
Hey man, I loved this video. Lots of useful information. I am trying to upgrade to a mastering-quality set up. Im looking for monitors that are clear and flat across full range. I’m very interested in the KH420s with a bass response down to 28 hz - so when it comes to mastering, would I need a sub to go with the KH420’s? Thank you!
Happy i could provide some useful info! With neumann monitors it is always good be a good idea to pair them with neumann subs. The 420s do have a great low end bass response but there is a still a bit of that overload protection stuff going on in it when pushed heavily. The two studios I know that really love their 420s specifically for mastering do use them with two subs but if you were thinking more for production and mixing, you could get away with not having a sub for sure! The Neumann line up is now becoming less and less popular in the monitoring space as well and I think there might be better deals for your buck in the same budget range as 420s + subs, hope this helps! 🙏 thanks for watching
Thank you! Your response was very helpful. ATC 25As with good subs seems the way to go!
@@clones1093 My pleasure man, Happy to help! I always figured it be great to mention the audeze MM-500 headphones to you as well. They are the only pair of headphones that I believe to be mastering grade (as well as the audeze lcd 4s but they are priced a little too crazy for me) and with a great DAC, headphone amp and Sonarworks headphone correction - they are insanely good. I'd definitely look into those as well! Under those conditions, they sound like a 20 thousand dollar room without the hefty price tag of one. Best of luck in your purchasing and I'd be happy to share any other experiences with monitors I have if you need anything else after this too. Best of luck! 🙏
At sane levels, I'd say no - the 420s get quite loud without subs. There are benefits to using two subs but I would not call them necessary at all.
A big thing you didn't mention is that the 310s are sealed while the ATCs are ported. If you pair the 310s with the 750 sub.. that too is sealed.
@@RainAstonIV this is great point, I’ll be sure to mention that in the future!
I just bought some kh310s! Would you recommend me getting sub for the dsp capability ?
Congratulations! Fantastic speaker setup! Be sure to use some high quality XLR cables and yes, I highly recommend the 750 sub. It doesn’t have dsp but the 810 sub is hugeeee and a was a little overwhelming for most rooms! Instead, I’d also potentially invest in the Neumann room correction system and use that instead along with the 750 sub! Thanks for watching and hope this helps, let me know what you end up going with 🙏
I was so disappointed in the kh310’s after using the 420’s at a commercial studio I work out of. But when I added the 750 sub and the room correction mic from Neumann, they became mind bogglingly good.
That being said, I have some quality da conversion from my Grace design monitor controller and my room was treated about as good as it can be. All those factors contribute to some elite sounding speakers
@@matthewtrenhaile1176 Yes! Grace designs controller/converter is amazing. And I completely agree, the sub changed the game for me!
@@matthewtrenhaile1176I’ve heard that the sub really enhances the sound of the 310s with the DSP capability and MA1 room correction it’ll transform them. Maybe I should invest !