Do JWs Realize They Carry Blame for the GB’s Shunning Policy?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
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Good work. I was given a name of a younger man that needed help in coping with his disfellowshipping. He was in such an emotional state that needed intervention from a professional and probably medical attention. He said he was a born in but in his early 20s he started to reason on the Bible scriptures and despite the counseling of elders, could not see the scriptures interpreted according to the watchtower doctrine. They disfellowshipped him for believing in the Bible truth. His parents shunned him and all the rest. He told me a similar thing happened to his older brother and they were ostracized and had nowhere to turn. His brother committed suicide because he couldn’t handle his entire family and extended family of the congregation shunning him. This shunning is a wicked expression of bully power over people just (in these cases) in being unable to accept the false interpretation of the Word of God. Wrong wrong. Not love.
😢
What a very sad story that is. All the more so because it has been repeated time and time again in various ways.
Blood is on their hands, yet they pride themselves on having clean hands.
They wash their hands of the deaths and misery.
Well, Pontius Pilate washed his hands too. Do we believe his hands are clean?
@@richlisola1 their retracted sheep and goat false declaration of fulfillment in the mid 90s was spiritually damaging to many. Many left. Some fell into the world and its sins because when you leave them, you left God. You are isolated even not being disfellowshipped because they hijacked a person’s relationship with God that now must only go through them. By their self appointed exclusive authority from God over his sheep, they interweave lies with truth. Before you know it you’re passing on partaking of communion which is disobedience to Jesus. So many reasons the governing body has blood guilt. Hey, all a minister needs to do is teach to the Bible, not more and not less. The word is truth, not their false interpretations.
@@k.mcguillicutty5368 It’s a similar sort of guilt embedded in Mormons or Muslims-It’s drilled into Witnesses that they are the only True Christians. This both brings with it a feeling of being special but also great angst, when one starts to doubt the doctrine.
I studied with the witnesses, I never joined but yet still they got me believing their schtick, because they were very good at pointing out the wrong beliefs of others.
Funny though, I never found it odd how we spent more time reading JW literature than the Bible at our studies. Nor did I find it odd how important it seemed for them that I use their New World Translation. The Black one then the Silver Sword 🗡️.
Thank you Eric for this. I served as and elder for 30 yrs and I secretly talked to disfelowshiped people. I couldn't bring myself to treat people that way. Knowing this true understanding makes me feel much better
yes, i felt the same - one sister I knew who struggled with mental and emotional problems was disfellowshipped - i rang her straight away although she was aprehensive to talk to me -I spoke to an elder and said i was worried about her taking her life - she eventually got re instated and took her life awhile after - very sad
Are you a disfellowshipped one?
@@user-sc6jb6sc4m I converted around age 32. I had arranged for two young (14 and 16) sisters to babysit my two young children while at work for the summer. I got to know their family and was out in ministry with them. Then one day the elder announced the 14 year old was disfellowshipped. She was not a bad person just perhaps a typical teenager reportedly running around with other witness teenagers in a nearby city. She was then the cashier at my grocery store. Of course I would say hi to her every time I bought groceries. To me I was new but just couldn’t image shunning anyone, certainly not children. It was clear she tried to avoid eye contact. She pulled me aside one day after bagging my groceries and said don’t you know I am disfellowshipped? You’re not supposed to talk to me. I just said Oh I’m not worried about that. Later at a convention her mother and older sister were on stage condemning this young girl for whatever (displeasing Jehovah, I don’t know.). I thought how could you do this humiliation to her? I think I know people a little bit to know she is not evil. In fact being raised in a typical, but good, worldly family, I was guilty of far worse sins of rebellion, drugs, fornication, whatever. I guess what I am saying is there must be compassion and love extended to our teens and young people. Sure we need to be strong in leading them to the Lord and his word and making decisions which bring glory to God. But to humiliate and shame and shun a teenager is just not what Jesus would do, in my opinion. So much damage is done psychologically and emotionally.
@@rette6206so sorry to hear that. I suffer from depression so I have a bit of understanding. I am still in, but so angry with all I have found out. The first thing is that just because you leave or are df does not mean you leave Jehovah. However you are so cut off you can't think. I hope everyone listens to the secret recording Eric did on the polish bro that was df. It was made 2 years ago. Worth every minuit.
@ASMR_Orangely No I'm not I just have a conscience that wouldn't let me treat people harshly.
I told many elders and MS that the only secret trial in the Bible was the one against the Lord Jesus
So why's do we perform secret disfellowship secret trial? Answered, of course, we follow the directions of the FDS. They get directions from Jehovah
In the end, they're blaming Jehovah
Interestingly, the bad poverty within so many JWs make them ignore shunning. I was an elder when I left decades back. My fine financial stability for the past 10 years made many JWs (elders inclusive) to boldly make many visits to me for financial help. Each time they came around, I welcomed them finely and assisted them. They need my help which their greedy Cult will never, ever offer them.
Thanks for sharing. That’s an interesting perspective.
As Jehovahs witnesses and or x Jehovahs witnesses we all share the blame of supporting a false religion and causing or taking g part in hurting or harm to others so we all have blood on our hands to a degree, the elders carry even more blood , and on up the line,how many did we bring into this false religion?
The elders only have as much authority as we have or give them
We all must seek forgiveness from our Lord and repent, it is good you call this truth out way to go,
@@Trublu52 This is good to bring out. When I wrote my website testimony to Jesus and deconstruction of 6 key doctrinal points, I accepted that while I often preached from the Bible, I did in fact present the magazines and touched on WT falsehoods. I realized I needed to ask God for forgiveness for this.
There are so many of the JWs that are sincere but trapped and misguided. We must pray for their awakening and deliverance from this bondage. I keep certain scriptures in my notes on my phone so when I encounter them in public and get a chance for conversation, I have the ones handy in hopes the word of God itself will pierce that bondage.
@@k.mcguillicutty5368 Thankfully, I don’t think I brought anyone in even though I studied WT books with them. Not even my children😁
@@linvest8466 I understand that can relieve one’s conscience. I was divorced and when having my children for summer visitation, I read them “My book of Bible stories.” My 4 year old wept saying her mother didn’t know Jehovah so she would not be saved. I felt terrible that such a thought had been communicated to harm a young tender heart. That was a red flag. That is an example of these evil men completely oblivious to the teachings of Christ. “Do not stop the children from coming to me.” But that book certainly did put a horrible feeling in my young children.
They also carry blame for the abuse cases, and the lying that went on in court. Jesus actually put blame on the congregation in Thyatira for allowing the behavior of "Jezebel" who was claiming to be a prophetess but was teaching that sex sin wasn't a serious matter. - Revelation 2: 20-23. Same today, witnesses are responsible for allowing the brothers to commit these lies, not condemning what they've done and continue to do, so therefore affectively going along with it, denying crystal clear evidence placed at their feet so to speak. Fearing men certainly does lay a snare
Thank you Eric!
Thank you for bringing up that example of Jezebel
Thank you Eric for another beautiful video.
Finally, someone putting some of the onus on the rank & file JW's for their actions and behavior.
So many ex-JW's place all the blame on the GB and Org when it's not them doing the shunning, it's the rank & file (our "friends" and family) doing it. Accountability.
RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT ON!!!
Thank you Eric, well presented and very informative, giving clarity and context to this very cruel and satanic practice of Watchtower, we have all been victims of false religion, clearly as exjw's more than most of Christendom, with Watchtowers deciet on another level altogether. Always enjoy your clarity and presentations, may Jehovah continue to bless you.
You are so correct Eric. Thank you ❤
You are so welcome
@@andrearoberts4833
We were deceived, I was a born in, it was all I knew, until I began deeply studying Jesus ‘ words and that of his Apostles’ letters.
I prayed and repented.
It was an eye opener when I realized the JW religious leaders, who are mere men, had separated many people from Jesus words and the instructions he gave to his followers. Imagine the gall of telling people who believe in Christ they are not members of the spiritual congregation. It’s ludicrous!
This is very true Brother!
There will be no: "just following (mens) orders" excuse for any of us.
@@cheezycatnip8352 reminds me of what Jesus will ask the people not listening to his voice,”Why do you say lord, lord and you do not do what I say?”
Luke 6:63
Did you notice the gov body doesn’t choose to use this scripture.
❤❤❤
6:09 If they sin; you sin. Community guilt or guilt by association. What are the consequences of the blind leading the blind?(Matt.15:14)
@Billiam-5858 In what way is Eric or anyone on this channel encouraged to follow him? Stick to what he said and question that….not the person.
Rud Persson: Excellent presentation, Eric!
Thank you, Rud.
I have been watching your videos for some time now, and I appreciate the alternate points of view you present that makes scripture make a lot more sense. In this case, however, I really don’t think most JWs are to blame.
The JW organization isn’t just another religion with some errors in doctrine that adherents can simply choose to ignore. It is a CULT, and that has elements of mind control that are difficult for people on the outside to understand. JWs aren’t so free to say “eh, I don’t like the idea of shunning, so I’m not gonna do it.” It’s not that simple. They are under the impression that shunning IS scriptural, that it IS what God wants them to do, and that they will earn His disfavor by going against the GB’s policies, no matter how nuts they sound.
I know you were a JW for a long time, so this kind of mindset probably isn’t too difficult to remember. Most JWs are sincere in heart and want to do the right thing according to the scriptures as they understand them, but they have been severely mislead by people who have WAY more responsibility than them. God will judge harshly those who mistreat his flock, not the sheep themselves for having been mistreated. Week in and week out, the minds of good-hearted JWs are manipulated into thinking they must put absolute trust in the GB’s direction, that it means their salvation. It is NOT their fault for failing to see otherwise when they live in an echo chamber of “trust the GB.”
Faith is a powerful thing, and if it’s placed in the wrong hands, one can essentially turn against their own logical thinking and willpower to do what they know is right. That is not their fault, though. The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the ones misleading them.
If you’d like to read them, I would recommend the books “Combating Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan, and also “Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control” by Luna Lindsey. Both of these were extremely helpful in understanding what happened to me, and what continues to happen to JWs to this day.
@@nneenaparris9330 amos 2:4b; 2. salon.2: 11,12; col. 2:8; apocal. 21:8
I love these shunning video series Eric...thank you ..if i can only find the courage to show my JW family....ive been personally affected by shunning...i was disfellowship twice!! But both times repentent!! I was so ashamed walking in the kingdom hall thinking that people thought i was unrepentant...which it couldn't be further from the truth.
@@amyballard8314
The looks!!!😎
Once ur disfellowshipped your always marked
@@changecomesfromwithin7377 true... unfortunately
Oh no, you've sinned, now out you go!
No friends, no family - don't you know?
The elders say you're wicked now,
To bring you back, here is how:
Sit silently for months on end,
Don't dare to chat with a single "friend."
Repent, return, and beg for grace,
To rejoin this judgmental place!
Totally agree
My dearest Eric,
What clear words of real TRUTH and clarification ❤ thank you for ALL the time and scriptural research you do, that enables all who are genuinely seeking real truth to learn about Jesus teaching.
Much Christian Love & Prayers ❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏
Did Jesus condemn his disciples for not fully understanding? Were all the Corinthians rejected for first being to lenient and then too hard on the same individual? As long as they didn't grieve God's corrective measures through his spirit, so many are changing today, for there are many who in this organization, secretly, are tying to find some balance.
Good comment. Thanks for your wise insights brother. God bless.
誠摯的謝謝 弟兄願意
《分享》著、來自
聖經裡《寶貴的真理》❤🎉
Good explanation in how the Dfing policy is over the top and goes too far in the JWS.
What happens is that young people in their early teens get baptized but as they emotionally and intellectually mature, they realize they do not want to be a part of this or any religious organization, nevertheless they are many times DFed and their families will shun them, sometimes for the rest of their lives as the case may be.
This revising the DFing policy /doctrine comes from the WTS/JWS problmes in Norway and now some other countries. A basic rewording if you will to fool governments.
Its not going to work. 😳
They go beyond whats Written,and by doing so have hurt so many.
I agree. All of these new changes have been brought about because of various governments imposing financial penalties on the organisation for their unreasonable and ever changing policies.
@@billjones261
Jesus wasn’t baptized until the age of 30, beyond the bloom of youth. Children are not mature enough to make such a serious commitment
.
@@linvest8466 True , every child or young teen that gets baptized is more power and control in the hands of the GB men and congregational elders.
Their game is always about power , control and money.
And they claims it is "an act of love" ............................
Great Job Eric Thanks
" All that ever came before ME are thieves and robbers, I AM the DOOR: by ME if any man enter IN he shall be SAVED.
THE LORD YAHSUAH THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.
It's Good To See you Back Eric
Thank you
You're welcome
whole nation of Israel was apostate, yet God was willing to forgive them. Paul dealt with the same mosaic law influence when dealing with a shunned person. he also has a pharisaic attitude in some of his writings. even apostles corrected one another.
I'm relieved someone else noticed this too, I find the letters attributed to Paul a far cry from Jesus' attitude and way of speaking. I wonder what eye witnesses were there to Saul's conversion? Do we only have his word for it? His writings are often very harsh, totally different to Peter's letters for example. Lately I tend to read his stuff with a giant pinch of salt, something feels really off about them, maybe it has been tampered with like other texts were, to support the trinity for instance.
Thank you Eric.
You will have to know that I am Jehovah when I bless your channel with likes and comments.
WE ARE living in exciting times! Each day, Bible prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes. For example, we see “the king of the north” and “the king of the south” engaged in a struggle for world dominance. (Dan. 11:40, ftn.) We see the good news of God’s Kingdom being preached on an unprecedented scale, with millions responding favorably. (Isa. 60:22; Matt. 24:14) And we are receiving an abundance of spiritual food “at the proper time.”-Matt. 24:45-47.
What's ur view on this. WT has been saying all day
Thank You. 🙏
You are so welcome
This is one of the best videos you've made. I do not agree with everything you defend, but this video is really good.
They r too blind to see they r worshipping men…. There’s no Holy Spirit collectively in JW (perhaps individuals) for starters Rutherford abolished it and communicated w angels (?) 😈 ? or 😇 up to u. So there’s never been Gods spirit directing this CORPORATION oh I mean religion….. you decide. I was a JW for over 30 years and never realized I didn’t have a mediator! Jesus sacrifice doesn’t apply to the great crowd, Rutherford made that up too‼️ absolutely mind blowing blasphemy 😢
So very true.
@@BeroeanPickets Most witnesses are followers of men.sad
@@michelejashinsky8409 Hebrew 13 v 8 Jesus the same yesterday today and forever.
All really straightforward.
My Wife and Daughter are JWs my other grown up children are not .
I was but I had a awakening from JWs and organised religion. Sadly it's all Governing Body says blah blah .
But the rank and file have been blinded by loyalty to a organisation. With all the multiple changes and back tracking on dress code and interpretation you would it would make them think but they are oblivious.
And it's extremely sad to be controlled. But one day the penny might drop Sigh
@@thetruthk5138 💔💔💔
They can't shun everyone !
So the light got brighter (Proverbs 4:18) by The Holy Spirit directing the organisation to the Catholic practice of excommunication - or disfellowshipping and adopting it?
I love the ministry work you do, but I just have to say that blaming people who have been spiritually and emotionally abused, also under a form of mind control is not very fair. As a former JW, until I woke up there is no way I could have understood this properly. I even served as one of two witnesses in a case to disfellowship my own father over a fraud charge.
Everything is clear, once it's clear. So I just felt I needed to say that. Thanks.
You said it well.
Yes! The reason why so many of us went along with the shunning is because we were brainwashed into believing that if we didn’t go along with it we would be displeasing God. They used our GUILT to manipulate us into complying. When we finally wake up to the reality of how cruel this actually is, we no longer participate. When your target audience is those who have endured spiritual abuse in the past, I think it’s extremely dangerous to then use that same GUILT against them. Sorry, but imo it is the same manipulation tactic but with a different goal.
@@hopelessidealist amos 2: 4b; col. 2:8; 2. salon. 2: 11,12; apocal. 21:8
Hi Brothers and Sisters don’t forgot to put a 👍 so the video can reach more people in need. Amazing Video thanks a lot
Far too many Sisters and Brothers
have been ,,,,,,, ✋Pushed away , from their attempts to Congregate with
Those they have been ( led ) to believe
Are God's one True people .
It's a Double edged sword 🗡️ . . .
Since Satan , has placed minions of
His 👈 . . . Among them , Anyway !!!
Satan planted his weeds in at the very beginning of WT,those have multiplied until they now saturate the congregations..
In the uk I’m now struggling to find a church. Any suggestions?
Matthew 18:15-17 is not talking about unrepentant sinner. It clearly states “if your brother wrongs you”. It is about interpersonal conflicts, when a Christian offends or wrongs another Christian somehow. This is very different from someone who is commuting adultery or some other sin not directed at anyone from the congregation.
That depends on which translation you read, and which manuscript it is translating. But even if it is correct that he said "wrongs you", he's not talking in the singular, is he? Is he not referring to wronging the body of Christ, the congregation of the holy ones? If it is only about personal sins, as the Org alleges, then where is Jesus counsel on other non personal sins, huh?
@@BeroeanPickets I think you can make that reading in English, but in Spanish it’s pretty clear he’s talking to individual wrongdoings. As to the original Greek I wouldn’t know. My understanding was that Jesus did not give any counsel on how to deal with non personal sins, but that’s from my own reading of the gospels. It’s also my understanding that JWs don’t use these verses anyway to justify their shunning policy.
@@marcelocampbell1679 Yes, but the Bible wasn't written in English nor in Spanish, so you're relying on a translation. But if you consult the interlinear on bibliatodo.com in Spanish, you'll see that it isn't "if your brothers sins against you", but rather "if the brother of you sins". It is expressed as a possessive relationship. The same is evident when you consult the Organization's own Kingdom Interlinear.
www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/matthew/18/
It reads, "If ever should sin the brother of you".
So Jesus was very much giving us instruction on how to deal with sinner in the congregation, what would soon become, following his death, the body of Christ.
@@BeroeanPickets okay thanks, I’ll have a look!
Not from me 😮😮😮
I was finishing his sentences.. 😂😂😂
💔🙏💔
❤
Matthew 5:38-48,Luke 6:36
👍💙
Don’t most people in most faiths believe they are practicing pure worship?
Would it not be a bit strange if congregants just went on day by day thinking they MIGHT be right? Even those attached to BP, don’t they believe they are now practicing true worship?
You can’t quote a 1947 Awake to witnesses who believe light increases and expect them to accept their errors.
Ray Franz also quoted Benjamin Hoadley in his book Christian Freedom, but didn’t use it to condemn people by association!
Why do you call the GB rich old men? Is it not sinful to accuse without facts and evidence? Would it even be a sin in Christs eyes to be old and rich? Proper facts please.
Who is fooled by the way scripture is written and who are enlightened? Are you claiming to be the expositor and revealer of truth? That only you are right??
You said yourself that knowing something is wrong and going along with it is sinful. But what Jesus did was give gentiles and tax collectors opportunities to get saved, he wasn’t making a statement in his interacting with them that he endorsed their lifestyles. They were sick, he stated that himself. Are you claiming that Jesus would have kept associating with these ones if they were to continue in their sins? Really?
Love of God and neighbour truly does matter for sure, but as I await the final video on your personal explanation of shunning according to your own search i will just stick with the many questions this video has raised within me?
Matthew 23:23 where Jesus calls out the Pharisees and calls them hypocrites and why. I'm not sure how much you personally know or understand about the jw org. It's an eye opener to be certain.
Your questions are understandable. There is no one group that have all the answers. There's only worshipping in spirit and truth. This is a personal qwest. You can belong to one or several groups and as a group we try very hard to do just that. But it really comes down to our own personal relationship with God and with Jesus.
No one here is coming across as better than. Its important to expose false teaching (shunning here) how an organization uses their funds, the love they show for each other and those outside of their group and so on.
It's ok to agree to disagree. My feeling though is that you are only seeing this through one lense. Perception is that the reality of truth stands for itself. They truly are rich old men who practice vile things. And all of us who have been at the receiving end of their practices knows this.
@@kariberger4978 hi, thank you for a calm and balanced response to my comment. I was attached to the organisation for 35 years. Baptised in 1989 and finally admitted how wrong the GB principle was a year plus ago. So, i am fully aware of some of the terrible things going on. My concern in the past couple of videos has been this underlying tone of guilt by association. I prayerfully decided last year not to break away (PIMO), just fade. Since then i have been blessed with reaching 5 of my congregation in coming to the same conclusion as myself with a few others now doing proper contextual bible study. I totally disagree that frontal assaults, even under the guise of exposing a wrong, is something that moves practicing witnesses to examine their faith, I have found it to do the opposite (two of the congregation completely snub me now😁), but obviously that says more about them than me. But i did change tactics, slowly introduced questions, ideas and the need for all to be responsible for themselves. I am completely convinced that my blessings are evidence that the diaspora of ex witnesses should not be attacking their former brothers and sisters out of the organisation but loving them to the truth in Christ.
@@cammeag1965
Absolutely, we were once in their shoes, I sure wish someone would have pointed things out to me a lot earlier instead of leaving me in there in that blind situation. We need to continue to pray that God will have mercy on them and help them see the need to follow Jesus instead of those men in New York
👏🤩
❤️👏🏾
Thank you.
@@BeroeanPickets You most welcome.
Intéressant votre vidéo. Toutefois, je trouve dommage de ne pas s'arrêter plus sur matthieu 18. En effet, dans ce passage, Jésus donne un processus : 1ere étape voir le pêcheur pour lui faire prendre conscience de son péché. Jésus dit que s'il accepte, la procédure s'arrête. Ensuite s'il n'écoute pas il y a encore 2 étapes. Le processus vise avec amour que le pêcheur se repente et abandonne son péché. Non de le traiter comme du caca.
Jésus dit à la fin de les traiter comme des publicains. C'est à dire comme des personnes non croyantes dont il faut les évangéliser. Cette personne ne peut plus prendre les emblèmes tant qu'elle ne se repent pas. Il n'est pas dit d'ostraciser la personne.
An excellent comment that I’m sure has enriched many of us. Thank you for relating it to Paul’s admonition in 1 Corinthians 5:7,8, 11. God bless you brother.
I do dwell extensively on Matthew 18 in this series on shunning. Here's a link to the playlist: th-cam.com/video/aXilQngBvP0/w-d-xo.html
There is one move video planned.
Je m'attarde en effet longuement sur Matthieu 18 dans cette série sur l'évitement. Voici un lien vers la liste de lecture : th-cam.com/video/aXilQngBvP0/w-d-xo.html
Une vidéo de déménagement est prévue.
The problem is that JW believe that treating someone as a tax collector is to shun them since they r so scared of non witnesses
I have to get this off my chest. And I want to be respectful. For folks who feel it necessary to find fault in what others do to bring folks together in unity. Please. Go start some bible studies. Go make videos. Go write books. Go out and make a difference. You'll find that folks will want to complain, or find fault with you too. But at least you'll be doing it your way. The way you think is correct. Thats all I want to say. Thank you.