Comics and Hard-Boiled - Pulp! Noir - Extra Sci Fi
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Many sci fi writers, especially in the United States, had backgrounds in reading and writing detective stories. They introduced to the sci-fi genre the action hero--no longer just scientific or philosophical protagonists.
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The pulps didn’t just usher in the mass appeal of science fiction. They also changed detective stories forever… and in turn, detective stories changed science fiction.
i cant do a patron but i hope one day you will do the battle of the Alamo :c
hey this maybe a stretch but could you do a synopsis over science fiction comics like batman or dick tracy?
Should the title of this episode read "Comics and Hard-Boiled Noir - Pulp! - Extra Sci-Fi"?
Hey guys, I'm a new subscriber and I wanted to ask you if in your "Extra History" section you have something about ancient Egypt, or if you plan to do something about this topic.
Revealing the next big project on this SciFi Discovery. Campbell.
My mind just went out on a fieldtrip, wondering what might await me! ;3
It was a dark night when she came into my office, Martian skin, red lips and a funny walk because of her cyborg leg. During those precious seconds the smog from the giant corporation near my neighborhood that was killing me was just a bad memory, the "now" belonged to her and before I could talk she saw my eyes and I saw hers. Eyes that saw countless silly space battles. And just like that, I was hooked.
Vicente Ortega Rubilar you win the internet for today
The most cliche noir story ever
Her legs went all the way up. All twelve of them.
A klingonne fatale
Arthur Hill heptopods?
When you talk about John Campbell, please remember that he was also exceedingly, um, "absentminded" when it came to actually PAYING writers for their work. H.Beam Piper died from suicide when he wasn't paid by Campbell, who actually had envelopes of checks for Piper, buried on his desk.
Thank you for posting this. I knew John Campbell was corrupt, but I didn't know that one of the reasons H. Beam Piper killed himself was because Campbell wasn't paying him. That's horrible.
No wonder Cowboy Bebop mixes Noir with Sci fi so perfectly! Also, how do I get started with all these videos?
With the series of videos about Frankenstein.
Hell, Holmes was pretty much a pulp hero, only with his sex drive replaced with an incurable addiction to mental stimulation (and a curable addiction to opium when the former wasn't available).
He might be a bit genteel, but he was also extremely abrasive, almost completely insensitive to others' dignity when it got in the way of his solving a case. He also wasn't above Batmanning it up, in the sense that he was a master of disguise, martial arts, boxing, with borderline superhuman strength, who traveled with an extremely competent - albeit distinctly inferior to himself in most ways - sidekick.
lnsflare1 did u just call dr.watson inferior u fiend......no small pox vaccine for u
It is funny how often people get annoyed whenever a depiction of Sherlock Holmes remembers to include, and utilise, his martial art skills.
Cocaine, actually. Though Watson does find him in an Opium den in "The Man with the Twisted Lip," but Holmes somewhat denies that he has a habit
So happy we got this little detour into noir, it's always been one of my favorite genres. Also, it's funny thinking how Flash Gordon could have been a start point for how sci-fi looks now considering most look at him today as goofy.
FLASH! AAAAWH
SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE
DUN DUN DUN DUN FLASH ! AHHHHHHWH
HE SAVE EVERYONE OF US !
Its kinda wierd just how much pulp grew and changed in Japan with their whole light novel thing while in the US its moved to the fringes
Ah yes the irony
Raymond chandler Is by far the best Noir writer I've ever read(out of hundreds). Its a shame he only wrote around 8 books.
Thank you for not going into that hack, L. Ron Hubbard.
Maybe if Hollywood knew any of this history they would be making amazing Sci Fi films instead of the cloning popular precedence like Flash Gordon is to Buck Rogers.
“Keep it up Ethan proud of you”
-Nick Valentine
Raymond Chandler was an interesting critic of the mystery genre. He was born in America but he was raised and educated in England and later served in a Canadian regiment during WWI. In one essay used in the book "The Simple Art of Murder" he utterly criticizes they basic English mystery, particular the one written by the creator of Winnie the Pooh, Milne, namely how unrealistic the story happened to be. It is interesting that Chandler came from the British style and might have read the style growing up in England, but ultimately picked the style of Dashiell Hammett as the style he would follow.
I have to disagree that Asimov showed worlds where human nature changed. The Foundation trilogy is based on the premise that with enough data, you can predict the way people will act thousands of years into the future. And some of the characters are motivated by a sense of honor or greater purpose and some by greed or lust for power. Very much like today.
And the treatment of robots by humans. See R. Daneel Olivaw.
And why you shouldn't blindly go around trusting scientists based on popularity (or the sun will explode)
Although it gets kind of meta when you realize that Asimov himself changed over time, and that later works in the Foundation reflect those changes. Especially those that come after his various robot stories.
Didn't one of the later Foundation stories have an event that psychohistorians had not been able to predict.
Asimov wrote way more than the Foundation sagas...
Suddenly Kirk's approach to diplomacy makes much more sense.
I'm surprised you still haven't made a Pulp Fiction gag.
Given the topic of aesthetics totally divorced from practicality, I'm wondering what you think regarding a juxtaposition with more realistic Sci Fi, like The Expanse. I mean, obviously we all love the retro futuristic art style of the pulp era, and art deco in general. It's bombastic, avant garde, and doesn't really care whether you approve of it or not, it's what it is with no shame whatsoever. I am curious to see how we got from the "look of sci fi" as you put it to more realistic representations. And, of course, all the ones in between (your Star Treks (of any generation), your Star Wars, your...I'm running out of examples here...). Basically, the mid tier between realism and the fantastic.
I suppose this could be a video series in and of itself, but I'd love to see the evolution of that art style over time. How did we get to the modern aesthetic? Obviously, computer graphics have a lot to do with it, but...that still leaves a lot of the story out.
Anyway, I'm glad to see anything you put out on Extra Sci Fi and where you're gonna go with this. I just had to share my thoughts.
That is something I´m really interested in art-wise and I haven´t delve on it much but yeah I see your idea and we might do some episodes about it in the future. I shall look into this thanks for bring it to us is a great idea!.
"You are one of the top Problem Sleuths in the city. Solicitations for your service are numerous in quantity. Compensation, adequate. It is a balmy summer evening. You are feeling particularly hard boiled tonight."
I'll be honest, while watching this, I couldn't help but think of the Dresden Files series- seriously, go read that series if you haven't. It's a cross between hard boiled detective fiction and urban fantasy.
Hell yeah, same here. And it's on audible too.
My bf introduced me to your videos and I can easily say that you're my newest favorite channel! Keep up the amazing work!
It has been said repeatedly but I just wanna note how beautiful and evocative the art has been for this series. Every extracredit series has been amazing; accompanied by charming illustrations. This series however has made me pause and admire way more than usual!
All this talk of noir and scifi immediately makes me think of Detective Miller in the Expanse series.
Gotta love The Expanse man.
Deckard from blade runner
RIP _The Expanse._ In case you hadn't heard, it's been cancelled. Time to start the social media blitz to get it back.
AlbertaGeek Well, SciFi isn't renewing it. But someone else might pick it up. Hopefully Netflix so I can FINALLY watch season one, which I missed.
For me, it's Kowacz from Altered Carbon.
I never thought I’d be this interested in science fiction. Thanks again for expanding my horizons!
Guys, I love these videos. Each new video show how wonderful, complex and rich this genre is. Thank you very much for your work!
I read an article about the love-hate relationship that Vonnegut had with Sci-Fi, and he undoubtedly had an effect on, if not the genre, his contemporaries. I hope (but not expect anytime soon) that we get an episode on him, because his work was so great and sci-fi writer or not, he was one of my favorites.
Your last hard boiled video helped me appreciate a niche visual novel properly, this video helped me even further, I would love to see more hard boiled themed videos in the future if you whish to choose.
5:40 The shadow looks awesome! Not to mention that other pieces of art are great, but this particular one appeals to me the most. Bravo !
I love meshing the genres. My Karl Vincent character is a noir/horror mash-up, great stuff!
I wonder how conventionally western genres could change if presented to and interpreted by non western artists? Much in the same way the detective changed when transitioning from Britain to America.
Well, we're seeing the Japanese take on superheroes with anime like My Hero Academia and Tiger & Bunny, but one could argue this goes even further back with shows like Ultraman and Super Sentai.
Connor Walters We already have a answer, the Spaghetti Western
Well the book series Rememberance of Earth's Past by Cixin Liu has similar concept to Authur C. Clarke's novel Childhood's End (at least in tone) which seems to me to be like that.
King Alfred Fair point.
Also, you know you have hit peak nerd status when you know every one of those instantly without needing to look them up.
But one of the things that sparked my curiosity with China, and the apparent lack of change. Even if a movie is focused on a Chinese audience, as many western films are, I don't notice many thematic or stylistic changes that the new audience would bring. Most of them just pay lip service at best.
Edgar Rice Burroughs! And you can't fail to mention Doc Savage a melding of Sci-fi and detective genre
"What can change the nature of a man?"
--Ravel, 1999
God I'd love to see someone break down Planescape: Torment on a philosophical level.
I just finished replaying it a week or two ago, and it's still among the best game stories I've ever played. Especially since it lets you RP so much more than most CRPGs. Sure you've got a couple of outright optimal ways to play the game - it's a computer game, that's inevitable - and opportunities to blitz through things (again, computer game), but it's got enough thought put into it that the only way you can actually make the game say "no, stop, see, you're dead now" is by going murder hobo and slaughtering a town that's protected by a notoriously fearsome power (not deity; the Lady of Pain doesn't like being worshiped).
Honestly, I've been waiting for this episode, and it was worth it. Great video. I've wanted to write some kind of noir fiction myself for a while (though hopefully slightly more progressive), and this kind of view into the general ideas has helped me understand what it is I'd be getting into. Thank you!
I love this channel so much. All your videos are completely well written. Thank you so much for creating them!
This series is excellent
Another Cordwainer Smith mention I am pleased
The noir pulps, which were the literal birthplace of Batman, also greatly influenced comics of the time. That same concept of the hyper-aggressive “man of action” dominated storylines of the time and shaped tropes that comics are still trying to shed to this day.
When you said Flash all I heard "was AAAAAHHHHHH he saved every on of us!"
But thank you for this series. I have learned so much and added so much to my reading list! I never would have discovered my favorites
I love how with these episodes the animation style changes for these.
If you don't mention Heavy Metal Magazine, I'll be miffed.
The art for this episode is especially amazing.
All this talk about gritty detective stories and sci-fi "men of action" reminds me of Tracer Bullet and Space-Man Spiff.
God bless you Bill Watterson.
Billy Deerhead I have six shots in me, one is bullet, rest - bourbon. ;)
4:36 Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern; the Flash. Comic book superheroes have been directly inspired, somewhat, by sci-fi, while critics have dismissed them as little more than kid’s stuff. Yet if you go behind the mask and beneath the cape, you’ll see the truth behind them...
The Pulps and Space operas were enshrined in Sci-Fi history by the end of golden age, RAH wraps it all up in "The Number of the Beast". Later Editors at Analog built on J.D.C., with Ben and Spider being my call outs. Analog Dominates the field from this point on, Omni deserves a episode for trying to unseat it but Analog is the source up to current time for current Sci-Fi IMHO.
I inherited my dads collection and subscription in the 1970's and as a older fan am going to call it out as my feed in "The Old Days " When Pulp = Paper = all media in Sci-fi.
Asimov, Hienlien mad Clark. This were the three that swept me into to sci-fi in the late 80’s. Simply because I was board and sick of studying and picked up a copy of Foundation because I knows my father had a copy at home.
Now we have stories where a hard-boiled detective/rogue/assassin/anti hero/bounty hunter has to fight against a corrupt and powerful enemy in a cyberpunk society. Also, there's Problem Sleuth, a webcomic by the creator of Homestuck where a hard-boiled detective has to solve a case and escape his office.
Problem Sleuth was certainly a ride. All that just to leave an office.
So does the copier and computer turn into robots that try to eat him? Or do all the security cameras start shooting at him?
I just wanted to say that I love this series. Thanks for doing it!
I am absolutely in love with this series.
Hi extra credits, after just finishing Dune recently i realized how large impact it had on modern sci fi and fantasy. Even though it has been influenced by the authors you have so well pointed out in your videos i believe it also gave a lot of headway to sci fi. Since you have referenced the work I was hoping you could further elaborate on it however if this is not possible due to scripts already being pointed out then I totally understand as many other authors mad a larger impact. I love the videos btw, Extra sci fi and extra History being my favorite. Continue with good work
They already have a planned history then they will go into detailed series about science fiction and since dune is the most famous book in science fiction they will no doubt talk about it but for now you'll have to wait and learn about what influenced dune with only a few things dune actually mentioned. Also if you want your voice heard you have to be on their patreon.
Thank you i wasn't aware
Not sure if you're being sarcastic but if not you're welcome, they're the best I wish I had extra money so I could vote on their stuff
Tormenta Mathan not being sarcastic bud. I agree with if I only had a bit of money I would definitely I've them some
I am missing the influence of society and technological progression on sci-fi. The fear of the machine and the dark that came with industrisation. One very big example of that is Metropolis!!!
This episode is basically a really good explanation of Space Dandy.
Your name is SPADES SLICK. You are the leader of a notoriously vicious gang of mobsters called the MIDNIGHT CREW. A rival gang known as THE FELT recently knocked over one of your favorite casinos. Your long quest of revenge has finally taken you through the front door of the mansion belonging to their loathsome boss, LORD ENGLISH.
Your subordinates, CLUBS DEUCE, DIAMONDS DROOG, and HEARTS BOXCARS have been dispatched to various locations throughout the mansion to begin carrying out your mission. Your objective is to locate and crack English's SECRET VAULT, and plunder its mysteries.
That's the business end of it. The pleasure will be painting this ugly house red with the blood of those miserable green motherfuckers.
Droog means friend
@@NecAngelus a girl's best, in this case
Oh
I think "Sword and Cape" drama from (mostly) the Spanish Renaissance also influence, or at least tap into, the same idea that a lot of the pulp heroes like Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers come from.
I´m Spanish any books that I should know about ?
The big playwrights for these are Lope de Vega and Pedro Calderon de la Barca.
In all earnest, Doyle's Sherlock Holmes wasn't necessarily the romantic victorian upper-class detective as the media loved to potray for some reason. Similar to how "Elementary Watson" never really existed in the original text, in the original text Holme's wasn't very likeable or romantic in any way, in fact, he too was a down-trodden drug addict that somehow managed to keep afloat with his financial situation. He also preferred to associate more with the under-world of London than with common Victorian society which he "loathed with his whole Bohemian soul".
You should also mention the SF-pulp series Perry Rhodan, because Perry Rhodan is simply the longest SF-Sereie in the world! (If you do not believe it, just check out wiki;)). Perry Rhodan started in 1961 and is continued weekly. Currently the series counts 2959 pulps. What makes Perry Rhodan so great is that the series tells an alternative human history. From the first contact with the Arkonides, the unification of the people from the eath and later with the Arkonieden too, the creation of a human empire and much more. Anyone who wants to know more about this series should visit Wikipedia or read the Perry Rhodan novels ;)
This series is so awesome! I'm really looking forward to your take on 'current' SF!
I came to this video because im writing a hardboiled detective character in a sci fi setting. Love that it talked about both.
I have to say this series is really bring me sooooo many ideas for a book that I'm currently writing in my spear time :D
I've always thought of the heart of science fiction as the willingness to stare long, deeply and boldly into the question, "what makes us human?".It's nice to see my private thoughts so eloquently echoed. ^^,
This might be why _Cowboy Bebop_ is considered one of the best series of all time. It’s sci-fi _with_ the noir.
I love the image of the robot arm/ tree at 2:57
Hello, I love your videos, I recently had a project at school that stressed me out and I asked if I could add history to the project.( I was trying to get people to go to Berlin.) I told my teacher about your channel because I sent them the video about putting games into education. I told her about the Berlin airlift because I love that video of yours. I went on and on about it and after I was finished, she automatically gave me and A+. I just really want to thank you for making videos because you are my favorite TH-cam channel.
Sometimes this is exactly why I love realistic(ish) stuff like The Expanse and the Martian, it make you wonder, "Can this really happen?", while also exploring the glorious universe that is Sci-Fi.
Also Human psychology in space. Can't forget Mark Watney vandalizing Pathfinder anytime soon.
Very interesting. But I question will you cover hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy later?
Hard boiled? I love that John Wu flick!
Asimov's Caves of Steel was an attempt at a science fiction novel that was also a noir style detective story that the reader could solve like any good mystery. One that treated the reader fairly.
I adore these videos! Never stop making them, ever!
I wonder if Perry Rhodan will be part of this series at some point. TBH to its this wierd thing that my father mentions sometimes, that he collectet like 1000 booklets of that are presumably somehere in the attic (we never checked)...
You should give a special mention to Detective stories in Bengal. Its a whole other wonderful flavour . I would suggest you read up Saradindu Bandhopadhyay's stories. The character Byomkesh Bakshi is still a cult figure and Calcutta's own ecclectic elegance provides a whole other exotic setting for these stories.
Will you guys go over the Sci fi of super heros? Like Stan Lee and the writers who brought to life Superman
I love your channel plz keep doing what your doing. Ps. Please cover alexander the great on extra history
Hello James, Scott, Dan and Dan and Dan and the other crew members I don't remember
War never changes. Only grows more complicated and more destructive.
And war is made by people. Hence, people never change.
[to be read in Ron Pearlman's voice]
noir influenced cyberpunk
one of my favorite episodes, even if its for petty vain reasons. ya mention my favorite author (Raymond Chandler) and my favorite hero (the shadow) in one episode. life is good.
Ah John W Campbell. A man with a very complicated history if I'm not mistaken. Should be a great episode!
We were greedy, we still are, we will probably be in the future for a long long time.
PaleoFisher Captain of the The Fishers fleet War. War never changes.
And Nick Valentine would support both this statements, yours and mine.
I've never been convinced that the hard-boiled detective story was all *that* realistic, but it did include somewhat more realistic views, and presented a side that was little present in the Classic whodunnits. Of course, the hard-boiled story quickly got into a rut and became a trope all its own, both comforting and unrealistic in its own right.
I love noir! I always felt that hard-boiled detectives like Philip Marlowe, are what gave way to Modern characters like James Bond.
I love this series but I really hope you guys talk about in a later episode the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons as its a book that is in my opinion underrated it also won the hugo award and is a book that I personally really enjoyed
Will you be talking about the resurrection of comic characters like the Flash and Green Lantern through 50’s sci-fi?
Thanks for doing something on Jules Verne, that was phantastik, and I loved this one , I´ve learned something about the origins of my beloved Klassiks. Please do something about Perry Rhodan. Dig a little deeper than the militarism Kritiks it gets for there first Cycles. Then you will find the inspiration of Roddenbery and the modern Spaceoperas with gigantik Konstruktions and Ships, beginning in the early Sixties...
With deep thanks for a wonderful Journey from Germany
ErnstEllert
What happened to extra gaming? does it still exist under a different name? I loved when you guys explored through games.. wish you did it more.
I just wanted to say that I love this series. It certainly made me seek out some new authors!
I think we all know that Senior Pink is the real pinnacle of a hard-boiled character
*Squee!* Thank you for mentioning one of my favorites.
I love " Mikey Spillane", Awesome movie, too!
When I play games like Call of Cthulhu I play the hard boiled character. My favorite character is Jack Reid, WWI Vet turned private detective. While his investigation skill were top notch and he could rub elbows with the rich and famous, he didn't have any trouble pistol whipping a goon or shooting an evil cultist to stop the ceremony. The rest of the group I player with were all trying to be the Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, or other European style investigators. PFFFT! Real men don't have time for those European shenanigans.
"HARDO BOIRED" That term is used in gintama a lot
"Scoundrel"? I like the sound of that...
The art in this episode is awesome!
Thanks a lot ;D
Blade Runner is probably my favorite film
You know one of the best sci-fi stories where humanity and doesn't change far into the future is 17776 by Jon Bois of SB Nation it truly is an exploration of humanity as it is now if it never changes despite amazing advances in technology, being Immortal, and being thousands of years into the future humanity is exactly as it is now and it is both hilarious and thought provoking
Awesome series! I hope you'll also cover some non-English-language works (Verne notwithstanding) because we love sci-fi in the French-speaking world too! While I appreciate that you might not speak the language, I fear you're missing out on a lot of really awesome, influential stuff by the omission.
I think that too! Ok I am not so deep into french SF, but a great non-English-language-pulp-series is Perry Rhodan. I dont't know if you knew Perry Rhodan because it is a german series. Can you telling me some great french SF?
What books would you recommend to get into ?
I would argue that today we are still driven by the same things that drove humanity hundreds of years ago. We've made leaps and bounds towards a better lifestyle and gotten smarter about a lot of things but you can't ignore the Ur of it all.
I see no reason for us not to be driven by the same base wants of humanity far into the future. We'd have new technologies, certainly, we'd be a lot smarter about a lot of things, the setting might be fantastical, but at the core of it Ur still comes into play.
For those of you reading this and wondering what Ur is, it means primitive, original, and earliest. Its used to describe the base instincts of humanity. What you get when you take away all context, and cut to the chase. I think it was also a sumerian city, but I could be completely wrong on that one.
These literature videos are just the best
Just read The Shadow.
loving this series, any estimates on when the next lady author's coming up? :^)
or "other"
To be fair, Sherlock Holmes had a drug habit and did detective work in seedy places as well as country houses (see the opium den in The Man With The Twisted Lip), and The Big Sleep begins with Phillip Marlowe dressing nicely to go to a rich man's mansion, so the dividing line isn't always clear- but on the whole, Lord Peter Wimsey would probably not move in the same circles as the Continental Op, that's very true.
This may seem out of left field but, can you discuss the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy books someday