We totally could but this is it being within a reasonable driving distance from the city. The club option is definitely an option, but even that would require some revenue to make a profit. I need to rerun the numbers based on a club
@MarkSantaMaria yes please rerun and make a video of that as well, even getting someone like @KevinTalbot to go in with you and you both could use your influence to compound into an RC complex over time..
This is irony. I remember starting and helping Shaws track to grow, we started a go fund me ( For dirt and road work) and some people on a podcast had negative comments. Which at the time I wanted to tell them they were ignorant to the finances of the track. And a large group were told Robert was rich and didn't need money. Thank you for the content as always, you are trying to provide knowledge.
Your conclusion is right on. I am an old man I've seen many tracks close. down. As you explained.even if you have a hobby shop I've seen tracks fail. If you find someone that owns property and you can run racing occasionally it can work. They are usually turf tracks so there is little or no maintenance. Racing pays for maintenance. But, it's not a profit generating business. You can also establishing a racing program renting from park districts or schools.
@@slange455 One thing I have noticed is that on line prices are not much different from in store prices. I think that stores miss the boat by not getting involved in school based racing programs. I ran a school based racing program for many years and over that time our club members and their parents spent thousands of dollars each year at the local store. Stores could get the students involved their racing programs, especially cars like the Grom series which are less expensive and are easy to transport.
I actually think this video could become much bigger. I’d love to see these business ideas amassed in one place so others can attempt starting/owning a track with a great start.
I totally agree with you, I’ve built a track on my property south of San Antonio, Texas and have spent several thousand dollars on it so far. I also built a dirt drag strip at the request of my regulars. Next, I am putting in an off-road Grom track. Recently I promised my wife to only pay for new improvements with income from the Track. That’s the hard part because I need not only income from my regulars, but new customers constantly coming in. By the way, you’re welcome to come by and run on it next time you’re near San Antonio. The Crossover RC Track 👍🏽
0:42. I feel this. So I help run & operate a local table tennis club (another hobby i have in addition to RC). The City largely lets us use this rec center 1 time a week basically free of charge. We don't get enough attendance to actually support if we were a normal business trying to pay rent, etc. I've had people who want more nights. Want more tournaments. Everybody wants more stuff but as soon as you mention that you're tapped out what you can do, I have a real job and two kids and I'm operating the club so I'm maxed out, and ask if they'd be interested in running those nights or tournaments, crickets. Everybody wants something done until they're the ones who have to do it. sigh.... Sucks to hear about your track. The closest track to me is in Omaha and it's an hour away. If it closed, I'd really be screwed racing wise.
Here locally in Florida the only tracks that seem to survive are either in a park with permits to operate as a non profit. Or behind a hobby store with a generous amount of land and a business man running the operation rather than someone who just loves racing. Only one of those is likely to be successful long term.
Mark, also you have to take into account/consideration that more and more products are being purchased on line which would drive the profit margin down every year which at a certain point you would have to increase the membership/race fees which would eventually drive membership/race fee entries down. It’s a sad cycle when it comes to this hobby. I love this hobby and it’s got me through some tough times in the (going on 50 years) that I’ve been in this hobby. I don’t have any answers to make it better but I just hope it doesn’t go away.🤷🏻♂️💯💯👍
There are a few tracks that run on public parks. Washington state has three one on the west side skagit river raceway, one in the northeast radio car club spokane, one in the south east xtream rc walla walla. Run as a non profit and there isn't any taxes. Volunteers and hard work make it happen. Always thankful for the track owners, race directors, track maintenance peeps, an towns/cities that allow tracks. Some towns seem to have a stick in there sphincters.
Mark. You could do rentals and waffles. That would increase revenue. You can also have special events. You could also put your inventory on your website or even ebay.
The challenging economics of running a track as a business really highlights the need in the US for more tracks run by clubs/not-for-profit groups. The big advantage obviously is removing the need for profit to sustain the track. The second biggest advantage is no longer having the track rely solely on a single person's drive/passion to operate the business. Something like this is admittedly more difficult to pull off with a 1/8 track, but it is more than possible for 1/10 and smaller tracks.
You nailed it .. the big problem alot of people dont realize is texas population grew 8 to 10 million people in 3 years and drove property value through the roof some places doubled and some places tripled then you factor in all of the other price increases itmakes it hard to run a business.
I’ve always wanted a track in my backyard but the yard was never big enough till now. I purchased 3 acres of land in the mountains of California. I just need a tractor now to build it and a few friends to come over and race.
As popular as you are in the RC world you would think that there would be someone very wealthy that would want to go in business with you. Ridgmar Mall as well as the building surrounding Ridgmar Mall would seem like an awesome spot for a indoor dirt track. RCCA is always packed since they moved to the other end of Ridgmar Mall with a bigger spot and two tracks
I have talked to a few past and current track owners. One thing they all have said is it is not really worth running a track unless you outright own the building/property.
Here in NC, 15K gets you a few acres. There is only 1 place with very nice looking tracks and they are hardly ever available for use. I plan to purchase a house with plenty of land to make my own tracks.
Indoor carpet in a rented mall store before the mall is demolished is probably the cheapest way to race close to a population center. My local LHS is in a strip mall and has a large offroad indoor carpet track. They get 10-35 entries 4 times a week at $30 a Class. Its not enough to run a business but it's probably $100k- 150k extra gross with little additional cost. You need the LHS to be successful as well and run them together, which is also a challenge.
Build an outdoor track on public land/park… and run it with a non profit club. This is what we do and our track has been around for 30 years. Hope this helps, Mark.
There used to be an indoor clay track near me that went belly up. The owner was paying 10k a month just for rent, plus employee wages. They would host kids birthday parties, had rc car rentals, and of course weekly races to make ends meat. The buildings greedy landlord decided to raise rent, and that was the end for this once great track. My closest indoor track is now 3 hrs away, so now I no longer race, only bash.
most of the places here in virginia are mostly backyard tracks that run regular races, and like 2 local rc shop tracks and 2 hobbytown that mostly do parking lot races.
You are not considering the taxes and the various insurances that you need as well. That said, operating any hobby business is difficult because you need to have a steady flow of customers to keep the doors open. It does not matter if we are talking about RC Shops or Boardgame Shops you need a regular set of customers that are purchasing at your business monthly to keep the lights on, and you may also have to have an online business as well to have second stream of income. In my area there are two hobby businesses that have been around for 30yrs plus. The first place is a boardgame/comic/miniature war gaming shop. It is in a strip mall. The strip mall has twelve other stores including the shop. Here is the trick, the owner of the shop owns the entire strip mall and all the income from the other shops pay for his shop. The person who runs the game store is there all the time because he runs the game store and as landlord dealing with other building and tenant issues. But that is how he keeps it open as the game store alone would not give him enough income for his family to live on otherwise. Eventually he will retire and plans to sell everything and that will be the end of the one remaining gaming store in my area. Rents and taxes and niche hobbies make it difficult to run a store. The second example is an RC Shop. It is in the far corner of the state in an industrial area. It has indoor and outdoor tracks and a fully stocked store, and he can get you anything you want. It is one hour and thirty minutes from my home in one direction if there is not an accident on the highway or bad weather. They too own the land which is an abandoned warehouse that he was able to purchase at auction for dirt cheap 25yrs ago for $50K because the location had been abandoned for 10yrs prior to the purchase and the bank was happy to offload the property. He spent another $50K on renovations and bringing the building up to code at the time. His largest expense is the property taxes which seem to go up every year. but being the only RC hobby shop for miles it is not unusual to have 200 people at a single event and he does a lot of events, especially during various holidays. The shop owner is now in his sixties and said he is not sure how much longer he wants to keep the place open and has been approached by UPS and other logistic companies to purchase his property and he may eventually take someone's offer. Taxes, inflation, various insurances, government fees, and employee wages will continue to rise making it difficult to keep any hobby business open and location is key because if you do not have a steady stream of people willing to fork out money every month to keep you open, it will be hard. I once visited an RC Track in TN (I do not remember the town) where the town allocated a section of a public park for an RC Club but rules were so restrictive in terms of the club needing permission to hold events, how large the event, the town having the right to refusal of anything they did and other rules plus you needed to bring your own power source and no onsite hobby shop made it that turn out on a good day were only about twelve or fifteen people max. Costs make it difficult for any hobby business and attracting customers is difficult because all hobbies are niche and non-essential nor very popular. Bashing is popular in the RC World because you can play in your backyard or a local park. Same with rock crawling, if you are creative, you can have a nice garden in your backyard that also acts as a crawling track. I wonder how long the hobby will be around as costs increase and a sizable portion of the population ages 65 or older. If wages do not increase, there is also less money for hobbies as well, so I worry that in the future all we have for hobbies is online video games or virtual everything.
What killed my rc shop & track dream was the liability insurance. Would have to have sign waivers but the lawyer said if something were to happen i could be held liable unless I had endless lawyer money etc. Which was heartbreaking.
I have been telling the owners of my local tracks to raise entry fees to $40-50 for first entry. The owners seem to think that would deter many from racing. I would rather pay more to race than not have a place to race. I always buy something when I go racing, even if I don't need anything, I can always use motor spray or servo tape. FYI, no such thing as free land, ya still have to pay taxes on it. I assume this is why many R/C Clubs across the pond set up tracks in gyms, parking lots, etc.
This is why tracks all over have been closing down since the early 2000s. Even if you find land, good luck on not having it shut down. It has to be in the middle of nowhere. If you have the land, large crawler course is much more feasible these days. Nowhere near the overhead for upkeep.
Ok Mark, there is hope. Roadrunners RC set up their track in Camarillo with parks and rec. Here is the breakdown. The best way to have an rc track near you is to go to your LHS and start a racing club with a membership fee. The cost of the membership goes towards maintaining the track. Now gain a sponsorship from the LHS and bring it to the city council. Have an unowned unused piece of land or land that is already owned by parks and recreation. Petition that an rc track be put in. Have the petition posted at any LHS and online for your town. Set a goal of about 5% total population. So if your town has 100k people, you need 5k signatures. Trust me, council will listen if 5000 people want a track. Once approved, create a pledge that you and your club will be responsible for all maintenance of the track. The general public can now come at their leisure to practice, but if they want to race they need to pay to join the club and sign up for community service to help maintain it each month.
@@MyChaoticFishing yeah, $700k is what i found for last sale price. they want 1.4 but it only appraises at a mill even. which is why it didnt sell and listings got pulled already.
It’s rough in less expensive areas. I’ve run the numbers for doing this in my area as I’m 5 hours in every direction from a track. And it doesn’t make sense here either unless you have another business that supports it.
For starters i think youre conflating two different things, the track and then the store. For the store piece, in my opinion you cant just be a RC store. There are two hobby stores that have large RC departments but also sell plastic models, trains, all manor of crafting things. I don't think you can just sustain on RC. For the track, have you looked into partnerships with public parks? We have St. Louis Dirt Burners which maintain a track in a public park. They redesign the track every so often, hold events, always seem to have a good turnout. Its open to the public.
Read all comments there are some super good ideas and smart people. I had been going to Indy sense the late 80s and seen it go through many changes form a strip mall in Mesquite to ware it is now in Garland. The numbers don’t lie. Land in Texas ain’t cheap. You basically need a group rich people or have great assets LAND and that LOVE the sport and want to se it grow and will be patient to birth this hobby. Another good one Mark! 🤙🏾
Thornhill just for reference has never in 11 years turned a profit. We are to the point that nobody at the track is paid. They are all volunteers and I have never paid myself. I built Thornhill knowing it would never make money and just did it for the love of the hobby. But I have to tell you it really stings to constantly keep putting money in it and watching all the Thornhill crew work so hard for no pay and see racers brag about sponsorships so they don’t have to buy stuff in the hobbyshop. Opening a track at this time would be a really bad business decision
when I got started in the late 80's the local hobby shop was a side biz with a car alternator/starter rebuilding company. The hobby shop & track didn't need to make as much because it wasn't paying for the land. It was supplemental income. After the rebuilding company eventually closed, a few of the racers asked the city to let them use land in a public park. They setup a club style racetrack for 1/10 & 1/8th. The downside is that the city has to approve most decisions, but they haven't had any issues. I don't think a full hobby shop and track can survive. It needs to be a track or tracks and a basher area. Make some crazy jumps that don't exist anywhere else to attract bashers. It's also not going to work in a metro area unless the land is free.
I feel the pain. When 318 closed it's doors, my closest track is Eldo (1.5 hours) and Pit Stop (2.5 hours). Both are on their own land. Hoping The Southern Classic comes back this year in West Monroe!
My thought is that if tracks are continually closing, there's simply not enough money and/or support for them. All the comments below are what others can do for me. If you think you could make a track work then open one. Then you'll see that while the hobby looks huge on TH-cam, it's not big enough to support local independent businesses.
i would so pay a membership for my local racetrack and race whenever, that way the track has a solid sure income, as much as we love this hobby we need to do more for the tracks but this owners need to figure out how to make a bit more money so they can paid and also grow the hobby so that more tracks can open as well.
I’m down in Corsicana and I keep thinking I want to build a track on my land and start a club. Maybe an oval dirt and off-road track. Would take a lot of work.
You could also try selling 10 races at $25 / piece as a $250 price to get money upfront rather than wait for the money to roll in. That way people are more locked in to showing up since they already spent the money which might help have bigger race days.
25 bucks per race is absolutely absurd. You won’t pull enough revenue to sustain that business model. Your best bet is to be like AMA flying clubs and charge 150’ish per year and you race as much as you want.
This is why i don't buy online unless it's the only option. My local Hobbytown has a couple of tracks, one they set up in their lot on Sundays for outdoor racing. Kind of hypocritical i think to buy online and then go to my local track to race after the owner has been setting up tubes in the summer heat
Ive seen several rc and slot car tracks open and close over my lifetime in wichita falls tx and the problem is that alot people won't spend the money required to race hobby grade rc and slot cars for the tracks to succeed that's really the issue from what I've seen because I used to race slot cars with my dad growing up and the hobby can get expensive if you get deep into it
See if there is motocross tracks near you that would add one in as another side gig for them they already have the land and parking most of the time and equipment
Hey Mark great brake down summary of costs good to know all about the hidden costs of running a track that most people dont know about,would it be possiable to run a track with and off set the costs as a supplier / ebay seller ?
You’re analysis seems well thought out, especially considering the area you live in. The thing that worries me is that if the top dogs in the RC industry (online shops, LHS, and content creators) don’t have the means or the will to continue building and maintaining tracks to race at, then who will? You would think it would be in the best interest of the aforementioned individuals to continue growing the hobby and making it more accessible and popular with the masses, to continue cashing out on it…..
Didn’t Traxxas promise a public track when they built their place in McKinney? I live in the area and remember reading a local news article about it. What happened to them doing that?
Guess im lucky to have room for a tiny backyard track. Been ruining 1:12 scale cars on it. Because its outdoors and it gets dark quick so needed to put in ghetto track lighting.
Don't sweat it, get some cones, and then get some friends together and pick a spot and race, simple, the hardest part of it is finding a spot that allows large scale if you choose 5th scale and larger.
Are there any tracks in the US that are 100% club-funded and operated? Cost sharing across 100 racers could work, but it would be very hard to get long-term commitments from that many club members.
there's a track in Snohomish, WA called DieHardRC that has an interesting model that seems to be working well from what I can tell. they lease a sizeable section of farm land but only use it half the year, during the warmer seasons. the rest of the year a hunting club uses it. everything is outdoors so they are at mercy of the weather but it's got everything you need including a dirt 8 scale track, 10 scale turf, clay oval and crawler course to name a few. they have a yearly fee or a daily fee. i am pretty far so i only make it up there 3-4 times a year. yeah, these numbers are ROUGH... there's no way i could pay that interest on a loan that big and pay what property/lease fees are in CA. i also legit dont think i could look someone in the eye if i was only paying them $10/hr, that's criminal haha...
Has anyone considered partnering with a local MX track to add an offroad RC track as an additional attraction to their current venue, or a local dirt track for the oval racers??
I was at the last Friday Oval night, and was told the farthest they could trace it back was to 1986, so it would be 39 years old at the time of closing. It’s close enough to 40, so the shirts are gonna say 40 years anyway.
Good luck even finding employees for $10/hr. My last two jobs have had years of vacancy for entry level $20/hr positions and barely anyone applies. The few who do and actually show up to the guarenteed interview, go on to expect $30-50/hr to start and just turn down the job🤯
Hobbyshops with a track make most of their money on “racing”….the markup on kits and parts are not that great. But racing is “free” money sorta speak, tracks in, people paying $20 or whatever a race day per class make more net profits. 100 entries is $2k (example) profit where it would take 6k in sales of parts etc to create the same amount of profit, it takes much longer to make that as you do in one day of racing.
Interesting. You didn't bring up the boogie man of liability for slip and slide and the loan. Bless people who open up their land and stuff to our hobby.
Why not Amain or Horizon get into the business of buying the track? I think driving an hour and change won't be too bad. My local off road track is about an hour from my house.
Find a building that will work for your situation Make sure it is owned by the land bank or the equivalent of . Then see if there is any money available in your area to start a business then see if the city or township offers deals on rent if you are willing to start said business the would help you with your margins than your overall business expenses you don't plan on making money the first couple years You're going to need a good tax lawyer so you can write off everything and make Your losses known for taxes in general it normally takes a couple years for a business to take off Even though your local track is closing there's no guarantee the relationships they had will trickle down to you so if it's something that you truly want to do find ways outside the box to do it start with the people that have elected power in your community and simply find out what's available and from one simple man to another if you really want to do it simply try you may be surprised how things just come together simply put a closed mouth don't get fed that being said thank you I've learned so much just a couple years into the hobby have many amazing RCs that you've turned me on to
Can you not just scale down? rent A piece of farmland run it as a club that way it would just pay for itself. With very low overheads
We totally could but this is it being within a reasonable driving distance from the city. The club option is definitely an option, but even that would require some revenue to make a profit. I need to rerun the numbers based on a club
@MarkSantaMaria yes please rerun and make a video of that as well, even getting someone like @KevinTalbot to go in with you and you both could use your influence to compound into an RC complex over time..
You mentioned a USA house maybe Texas and not Florida? Lol
Yeah kev, why don’t you come over and help get a track kickstarted! That would definitely work I feel like
Why dont you do it yourself kev. You got more money but you dont run a racetrack?
As a student of Economics and a fellow RC hobbyist, I really enjoyed watching this video.
This is irony. I remember starting and helping Shaws track to grow, we started a go fund me ( For dirt and road work) and some people on a podcast had negative comments. Which at the time I wanted to tell them they were ignorant to the finances of the track. And a large group were told Robert was rich and didn't need money. Thank you for the content as always, you are trying to provide knowledge.
Your analysis was very interesting. It explains a lot on the scarcity of tracks around the US. Thanks for providing this.
Mark Santa Maria, you’re always welcome at Race Place RC in Oklahoma City!
Your conclusion is right on. I am an old man I've seen many tracks close. down. As you explained.even if you have a hobby shop I've seen tracks fail. If you find someone that owns property and you can run racing occasionally it can work. They are usually turf tracks so there is little or no maintenance. Racing pays for maintenance. But, it's not a profit generating business. You can also establishing a racing program renting from park districts or schools.
True ironically hobby shops needs race tracks to attract customers ….hard to compete with the online hobby giants
@@slange455 One thing I have noticed is that on line prices are not much different from in store prices. I think that stores miss the boat by not getting involved in school based racing programs. I ran a school based racing program for many years and over that time our club members and their parents spent thousands of dollars each year at the local store. Stores could get the students involved their racing programs, especially cars like the Grom series which are less expensive and are easy to transport.
Man. We need another Mike's hobby shop. That was rc heaven. 3 tracks, space for indoor flying. And all types of hobbies.
I actually think this video could become much bigger. I’d love to see these business ideas amassed in one place so others can attempt starting/owning a track with a great start.
Thank you for letting people know MSM, also we have Speegleville RC Speedway down here by Waco we race every Sunday!
I totally agree with you, I’ve built a track on my property south of San Antonio, Texas and have spent several thousand dollars on it so far. I also built a dirt drag strip at the request of my regulars. Next, I am putting in an off-road Grom track. Recently I promised my wife to only pay for new improvements with income from the Track. That’s the hard part because I need not only income from my regulars, but new customers constantly coming in. By the way, you’re welcome to come by and run on it next time you’re near San Antonio. The Crossover RC Track 👍🏽
I'm excited to bring out the RC sim rig setup. See you next weekend, man!
@ definitely can’t wait, my Track guys are totally blown away also!!
0:42. I feel this. So I help run & operate a local table tennis club (another hobby i have in addition to RC). The City largely lets us use this rec center 1 time a week basically free of charge. We don't get enough attendance to actually support if we were a normal business trying to pay rent, etc. I've had people who want more nights. Want more tournaments. Everybody wants more stuff but as soon as you mention that you're tapped out what you can do, I have a real job and two kids and I'm operating the club so I'm maxed out, and ask if they'd be interested in running those nights or tournaments, crickets. Everybody wants something done until they're the ones who have to do it. sigh.... Sucks to hear about your track. The closest track to me is in Omaha and it's an hour away. If it closed, I'd really be screwed racing wise.
Here locally in Florida the only tracks that seem to survive are either in a park with permits to operate as a non profit. Or behind a hobby store with a generous amount of land and a business man running the operation rather than someone who just loves racing. Only one of those is likely to be successful long term.
Thanks for breaking it down Mark. I don’t think most people realize how expensive it actually is to run a brick & mortar business these days.
Sorry to see another track/shop close. Hope someone will come in to either take over Indy or make a new place.
Mark, also you have to take into account/consideration that more and more products are being purchased on line which would drive the profit margin down every year which at a certain point you would have to increase the membership/race fees which would eventually drive membership/race fee entries down. It’s a sad cycle when it comes to this hobby. I love this hobby and it’s got me through some tough times in the (going on 50 years) that I’ve been in this hobby. I don’t have any answers to make it better but I just hope it doesn’t go away.🤷🏻♂️💯💯👍
There are a few tracks that run on public parks. Washington state has three one on the west side skagit river raceway, one in the northeast radio car club spokane, one in the south east xtream rc walla walla. Run as a non profit and there isn't any taxes. Volunteers and hard work make it happen. Always thankful for the track owners, race directors, track maintenance peeps, an towns/cities that allow tracks. Some towns seem to have a stick in there sphincters.
yep, we have one here in Louisiana
Mark. You could do rentals and waffles. That would increase revenue. You can also have special events. You could also put your inventory on your website or even ebay.
The challenging economics of running a track as a business really highlights the need in the US for more tracks run by clubs/not-for-profit groups. The big advantage obviously is removing the need for profit to sustain the track. The second biggest advantage is no longer having the track rely solely on a single person's drive/passion to operate the business. Something like this is admittedly more difficult to pull off with a 1/8 track, but it is more than possible for 1/10 and smaller tracks.
You nailed it .. the big problem alot of people dont realize is texas population grew 8 to 10 million people in 3 years and drove property value through the roof some places doubled and some places tripled then you factor in all of the other price increases itmakes it hard to run a business.
I’ve always wanted a track in my backyard but the yard was never big enough till now. I purchased 3 acres of land in the mountains of California. I just need a tractor now to build it and a few friends to come over and race.
We have bike parks and skate parks, why no outdoor rc tracks.
Thunder Alley in Beaumont California is closing down today, last day to run the track.😢
No way! I’ve always wanted to race there
As popular as you are in the RC world you would think that there would be someone very wealthy that would want to go in business with you. Ridgmar Mall as well as the building surrounding Ridgmar Mall would seem like an awesome spot for a indoor dirt track. RCCA is always packed since they moved to the other end of Ridgmar Mall with a bigger spot and two tracks
I have talked to a few past and current track owners. One thing they all have said is it is not really worth running a track unless you outright own the building/property.
Here in NC, 15K gets you a few acres. There is only 1 place with very nice looking tracks and they are hardly ever available for use. I plan to purchase a house with plenty of land to make my own tracks.
Mark, you like the RV stuff. Open a small RV park with a RC track.
Indoor carpet in a rented mall store before the mall is demolished is probably the cheapest way to race close to a population center. My local LHS is in a strip mall and has a large offroad indoor carpet track. They get 10-35 entries 4 times a week at $30 a Class. Its not enough to run a business but it's probably $100k- 150k extra gross with little additional cost. You need the LHS to be successful as well and run them together, which is also a challenge.
Build an outdoor track on public land/park… and run it with a non profit club. This is what we do and our track has been around for 30 years. Hope this helps, Mark.
care to help how you got the non profit? I currently run a track on public land at a park I built and its still in the starting stages
There used to be an indoor clay track near me that went belly up. The owner was paying 10k a month just for rent, plus employee wages. They would host kids birthday parties, had rc car rentals, and of course weekly races to make ends meat. The buildings greedy landlord decided to raise rent, and that was the end for this once great track. My closest indoor track is now 3 hrs away, so now I no longer race, only bash.
Smack?
same here... OCRC, SCVRC, and West Coast for me.
Great video bro, I was thinking of doing an rc recreational place with a few different tracks inside, after watching this I'm not as motivated.
most of the places here in virginia are mostly backyard tracks that run regular races, and like 2 local rc shop tracks and 2 hobbytown that mostly do parking lot races.
You are not considering the taxes and the various insurances that you need as well. That said, operating any hobby business is difficult because you need to have a steady flow of customers to keep the doors open. It does not matter if we are talking about RC Shops or Boardgame Shops you need a regular set of customers that are purchasing at your business monthly to keep the lights on, and you may also have to have an online business as well to have second stream of income.
In my area there are two hobby businesses that have been around for 30yrs plus. The first place is a boardgame/comic/miniature war gaming shop. It is in a strip mall. The strip mall has twelve other stores including the shop. Here is the trick, the owner of the shop owns the entire strip mall and all the income from the other shops pay for his shop. The person who runs the game store is there all the time because he runs the game store and as landlord dealing with other building and tenant issues. But that is how he keeps it open as the game store alone would not give him enough income for his family to live on otherwise. Eventually he will retire and plans to sell everything and that will be the end of the one remaining gaming store in my area. Rents and taxes and niche hobbies make it difficult to run a store.
The second example is an RC Shop. It is in the far corner of the state in an industrial area. It has indoor and outdoor tracks and a fully stocked store, and he can get you anything you want. It is one hour and thirty minutes from my home in one direction if there is not an accident on the highway or bad weather. They too own the land which is an abandoned warehouse that he was able to purchase at auction for dirt cheap 25yrs ago for $50K because the location had been abandoned for 10yrs prior to the purchase and the bank was happy to offload the property. He spent another $50K on renovations and bringing the building up to code at the time. His largest expense is the property taxes which seem to go up every year. but being the only RC hobby shop for miles it is not unusual to have 200 people at a single event and he does a lot of events, especially during various holidays. The shop owner is now in his sixties and said he is not sure how much longer he wants to keep the place open and has been approached by UPS and other logistic companies to purchase his property and he may eventually take someone's offer.
Taxes, inflation, various insurances, government fees, and employee wages will continue to rise making it difficult to keep any hobby business open and location is key because if you do not have a steady stream of people willing to fork out money every month to keep you open, it will be hard.
I once visited an RC Track in TN (I do not remember the town) where the town allocated a section of a public park for an RC Club but rules were so restrictive in terms of the club needing permission to hold events, how large the event, the town having the right to refusal of anything they did and other rules plus you needed to bring your own power source and no onsite hobby shop made it that turn out on a good day were only about twelve or fifteen people max.
Costs make it difficult for any hobby business and attracting customers is difficult because all hobbies are niche and non-essential nor very popular. Bashing is popular in the RC World because you can play in your backyard or a local park. Same with rock crawling, if you are creative, you can have a nice garden in your backyard that also acts as a crawling track. I wonder how long the hobby will be around as costs increase and a sizable portion of the population ages 65 or older. If wages do not increase, there is also less money for hobbies as well, so I worry that in the future all we have for hobbies is online video games or virtual everything.
We need more tracks near Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
What killed my rc shop & track dream was the liability insurance. Would have to have sign waivers but the lawyer said if something were to happen i could be held liable unless I had endless lawyer money etc. Which was heartbreaking.
The future is Rc tracks and hobby shops at people homes. We had two of those till people retired
I have been telling the owners of my local tracks to raise entry fees to $40-50 for first entry. The owners seem to think that would deter many from racing. I would rather pay more to race than not have a place to race. I always buy something when I go racing, even if I don't need anything, I can always use motor spray or servo tape.
FYI, no such thing as free land, ya still have to pay taxes on it. I assume this is why many R/C Clubs across the pond set up tracks in gyms, parking lots, etc.
Most people that complain about practice fees have no clue what it takes just to keep the doors open.
- And what did you guys learn from that?
- Location, location, location.
Yup… hahaha
This is why tracks all over have been closing down since the early 2000s. Even if you find land, good luck on not having it shut down. It has to be in the middle of nowhere. If you have the land, large crawler course is much more feasible these days. Nowhere near the overhead for upkeep.
Ok Mark, there is hope. Roadrunners RC set up their track in Camarillo with parks and rec. Here is the breakdown.
The best way to have an rc track near you is to go to your LHS and start a racing club with a membership fee. The cost of the membership goes towards maintaining the track. Now gain a sponsorship from the LHS and bring it to the city council. Have an unowned unused piece of land or land that is already owned by parks and recreation. Petition that an rc track be put in. Have the petition posted at any LHS and online for your town. Set a goal of about 5% total population. So if your town has 100k people, you need 5k signatures. Trust me, council will listen if 5000 people want a track. Once approved, create a pledge that you and your club will be responsible for all maintenance of the track. The general public can now come at their leisure to practice, but if they want to race they need to pay to join the club and sign up for community service to help maintain it each month.
@@STDriver92 what is LHS?
@@Ringmaster78320 Local Hobby Shop
You have it all thought out, why not put your plan into motion.
@@Ringmaster78320Local Hobby Shop
@@Ringmaster78320local hobby shop
As a sidenote, Indy RC is asking $1.4 Million for their property. Insurance is another massive cost not listed in your chart either..
And taxes...
Great return on investment considering what it was last purchased for…
@@MyChaoticFishing yeah, $700k is what i found for last sale price. they want 1.4 but it only appraises at a mill even. which is why it didnt sell and listings got pulled already.
It’s rough in less expensive areas. I’ve run the numbers for doing this in my area as I’m 5 hours in every direction from a track. And it doesn’t make sense here either unless you have another business that supports it.
As soon as the holidays is over going to start work on the backyard track in seagoville tx
Im in!
For starters i think youre conflating two different things, the track and then the store.
For the store piece, in my opinion you cant just be a RC store. There are two hobby stores that have large RC departments but also sell plastic models, trains, all manor of crafting things. I don't think you can just sustain on RC.
For the track, have you looked into partnerships with public parks? We have St. Louis Dirt Burners which maintain a track in a public park. They redesign the track every so often, hold events, always seem to have a good turnout. Its open to the public.
Sorry to hear that 😢 good luck . merry Christmas 🎄
Read all comments there are some super good ideas and smart people. I had been going to Indy sense the late 80s and seen it go through many changes form a strip mall in Mesquite to ware it is now in Garland. The numbers don’t lie. Land in Texas ain’t cheap. You basically need a group rich people or have great assets LAND and that LOVE the sport and want to se it grow and will be patient to birth this hobby. Another good one Mark! 🤙🏾
Thanks man! It is not cheap here at all
I grew up going to Indy back in the 90's, I loved that place. I haven't lived in the area in a long time though
Thornhill just for reference has never in 11 years turned a profit. We are to the point that nobody at the track is paid. They are all volunteers and I have never paid myself. I built Thornhill knowing it would never make money and just did it for the love of the hobby. But I have to tell you it really stings to constantly keep putting money in it and watching all the Thornhill crew work so hard for no pay and see racers brag about sponsorships so they don’t have to buy stuff in the hobbyshop. Opening a track at this time would be a really bad business decision
when I got started in the late 80's the local hobby shop was a side biz with a car alternator/starter rebuilding company. The hobby shop & track didn't need to make as much because it wasn't paying for the land. It was supplemental income. After the rebuilding company eventually closed, a few of the racers asked the city to let them use land in a public park. They setup a club style racetrack for 1/10 & 1/8th. The downside is that the city has to approve most decisions, but they haven't had any issues. I don't think a full hobby shop and track can survive. It needs to be a track or tracks and a basher area. Make some crazy jumps that don't exist anywhere else to attract bashers. It's also not going to work in a metro area unless the land is free.
Its been difficult to keep tracks open in Louisville Kentucky.
Property prices are absolutely ridiculous right now.
At $10 an hour your only working high school kids.
I feel the pain. When 318 closed it's doors, my closest track is Eldo (1.5 hours) and Pit Stop (2.5 hours). Both are on their own land. Hoping The Southern Classic comes back this year in West Monroe!
My thought is that if tracks are continually closing, there's simply not enough money and/or support for them. All the comments below are what others can do for me. If you think you could make a track work then open one. Then you'll see that while the hobby looks huge on TH-cam, it's not big enough to support local independent businesses.
i would so pay a membership for my local racetrack and race whenever, that way the track has a solid sure income, as much as we love this hobby we need to do more for the tracks but this owners need to figure out how to make a bit more money so they can paid and also grow the hobby so that more tracks can open as well.
I’m down in Corsicana and I keep thinking I want to build a track on my land and start a club. Maybe an oval dirt and off-road track.
Would take a lot of work.
You could also try selling 10 races at $25 / piece as a $250 price to get money upfront rather than wait for the money to roll in. That way people are more locked in to showing up since they already spent the money which might help have bigger race days.
No ones going to pay that 😂
@ $250 isn’t bad at all. If they’re racing in 10 races they’ll spend it anyway idiot
25 bucks per race is absolutely absurd. You won’t pull enough revenue to sustain that business model. Your best bet is to be like AMA flying clubs and charge 150’ish per year and you race as much as you want.
This is why i don't buy online unless it's the only option. My local Hobbytown has a couple of tracks, one they set up in their lot on Sundays for outdoor racing. Kind of hypocritical i think to buy online and then go to my local track to race after the owner has been setting up tubes in the summer heat
Ive seen several rc and slot car tracks open and close over my lifetime in wichita falls tx and the problem is that alot people won't spend the money required to race hobby grade rc and slot cars for the tracks to succeed that's really the issue from what I've seen because I used to race slot cars with my dad growing up and the hobby can get expensive if you get deep into it
See if there is motocross tracks near you that would add one in as another side gig for them they already have the land and parking most of the time and equipment
i live in the chicagoland area, a lot of RC tracks are getting bought out for warehouse development from amazon/etc.. thats the shame of it in my area
Hey Mark great brake down summary of costs good to know all about the hidden costs of running a track that most people dont know about,would it be possiable to run a track with and off set the costs as a supplier / ebay seller ?
You’re analysis seems well thought out, especially considering the area you live in. The thing that worries me is that if the top dogs in the RC industry (online shops, LHS, and content creators) don’t have the means or the will to continue building and maintaining tracks to race at, then who will? You would think it would be in the best interest of the aforementioned individuals to continue growing the hobby and making it more accessible and popular with the masses, to continue cashing out on it…..
Didn’t Traxxas promise a public track when they built their place in McKinney? I live in the area and remember reading a local news article about it. What happened to them doing that?
Guess im lucky to have room for a tiny backyard track. Been ruining 1:12 scale cars on it. Because its outdoors and it gets dark quick so needed to put in ghetto track lighting.
Start with just parking lot racing , or grass track at a park
Is renting vacant land from a county park an option? Run it as a club, we have 2 tracks here that went that route.
What about the spec slash racing? :(
Sorry to hear what happened bro at least your in driving range of other places
Race track ,bashing track spare parts sales,food and drinks stand,parking fees venue for hire , it is possible with some creative thinking 😅😅
Don't sweat it, get some cones, and then get some friends together and pick a spot and race, simple, the hardest part of it is finding a spot that allows large scale if you choose 5th scale and larger.
Numbers are correct. I have crunched them this week and I own the land.
Are there any tracks in the US that are 100% club-funded and operated? Cost sharing across 100 racers could work, but it would be very hard to get long-term commitments from that many club members.
there's a track in Snohomish, WA called DieHardRC that has an interesting model that seems to be working well from what I can tell. they lease a sizeable section of farm land but only use it half the year, during the warmer seasons. the rest of the year a hunting club uses it. everything is outdoors so they are at mercy of the weather but it's got everything you need including a dirt 8 scale track, 10 scale turf, clay oval and crawler course to name a few. they have a yearly fee or a daily fee. i am pretty far so i only make it up there 3-4 times a year.
yeah, these numbers are ROUGH... there's no way i could pay that interest on a loan that big and pay what property/lease fees are in CA. i also legit dont think i could look someone in the eye if i was only paying them $10/hr, that's criminal haha...
The $10 an hour was arbitrary number. Just for the discussion for the video.
With all the money you get from Traxxas and Arrma, I don't see the problem. JK Mark, happy holidays to you and the family and everyone in MSM nation!
Thornhill and Gulf Coast raceway are 3 hours 1 way for me in opposite directions and those are my closest
Wow.
Call Mark Cuban!
No wonder they are selling up. What u need is a garden like Exocaged RC 😅 he’s living the dream bless him.
Has anyone considered partnering with a local MX track to add an offroad RC track as an additional attraction to their current venue, or a local dirt track for the oval racers??
I was at the last Friday Oval night, and was told the farthest they could trace it back was to 1986, so it would be 39 years old at the time of closing. It’s close enough to 40, so the shirts are gonna say 40 years anyway.
You can start by throwing RC events before jumping in just to test the waters on your following Then you can go from there.
Good luck even finding employees for $10/hr. My last two jobs have had years of vacancy for entry level $20/hr positions and barely anyone applies. The few who do and actually show up to the guarenteed interview, go on to expect $30-50/hr to start and just turn down the job🤯
Parts are 50%, at least from Traxxas and horizon and kits are from 15-30% ish
And I didn't hear a word about taxes!
The problem is it no money to be made in rc that why alot of track door closed
A bunch of the tracks here in California dont have Hobby shops, you need that to keep the track alive.. gotta sell bashers to keep money coming in..
Hobbyshops with a track make most of their money on “racing”….the markup on kits and parts are not that great. But racing is “free” money sorta speak, tracks in, people paying $20 or whatever a race day per class make more net profits. 100 entries is $2k (example) profit where it would take 6k in sales of parts etc to create the same amount of profit, it takes much longer to make that as you do in one day of racing.
My LHS rents out the track for birthday parties and they do 15-20 of those a month I thought it was a smart way to pay for it
Interesting. You didn't bring up the boogie man of liability for slip and slide and the loan. Bless people who open up their land and stuff to our hobby.
They also say you need a million dollars to retire comfortably, and that's just not so either.
Nobody is going to work for $10/hr Lol😂
Someone talking real track costs...
People complaining entry fees are to much..
What if you had a partner to go in on it 50/50?
Partnerships are tough.
Third option is buying an existing track, but even that isn't cheap.
Why not Amain or Horizon get into the business of buying the track?
I think driving an hour and change won't be too bad. My local off road track is about an hour from my house.
Indoor raceways get ruined by providing pit spaces indoor-
Why doesn’t Traxxas open a track in DFW?
It be cheaper to buy land elsewhere and own the land!
where the partners and sponsors ?
We have a local indoor track that is inside a storage unit place, they also have a small rc shop.
Find a building that will work for your situation Make sure it is owned by the land bank or the equivalent of . Then see if there is any money available in your area to start a business then see if the city or township offers deals on rent if you are willing to start said business the would help you with your margins than your overall business expenses you don't plan on making money the first couple years You're going to need a good tax lawyer so you can write off everything and make Your losses known for taxes in general it normally takes a couple years for a business to take off Even though your local track is closing there's no guarantee the relationships they had will trickle down to you so if it's something that you truly want to do find ways outside the box to do it start with the people that have elected power in your community and simply find out what's available and from one simple man to another if you really want to do it simply try you may be surprised how things just come together simply put a closed mouth don't get fed that being said thank you I've learned so much just a couple years into the hobby have many amazing RCs that you've turned me on to