Portraying Black Issues In Media - The Proud Family vs. Moon Girl
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2023
- Happy Black History Month. #blackhistorymonth #moongirlanddevildinosaur #theproudfamilylouderandprouder
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Patreon - www.patreon.com/user?u=50815805
The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder is an American animated television series created by Bruce W. Smith and Ralph Farquhar which premiered on Disney+ on February 23, 2022. It is a revival and soft reboot of The Proud Family, which originally aired on Disney Channel from 2001 to 2005.
In April 2022, Disney+ confirmed that the show's second season was in production, which premiered on Disney+ on February 1, 2023. The series has been received positively in critic reviews. The series made its linear premiere on January 7, 2023 on Disney Channel, and on Disney XD on January 8, 2023.
The series follows Penny Proud, a 14-year-old girl and her family, as they navigate their lives in the 2020s. Penny, and her parents Trudy and Oscar, face a myriad of challenges. Suga Mama returns, as does Michael, Dijonay, Zoey, and LaCienega. Two new kids, Maya and KG, raised by two dads, try to adapt to life in Smithville.
Famous TV Star Noah Barker is transferring to Penny’s school, and finds Zoey, and they start to fall in love, but for a certain reason…. because Zoey’s caucasian.
All the girls at school are excited to hear that Odder Things star Noah Barker (Andre Jamal Kinney) is transferring to their school. Upon his arrival, he immediately asks out Zoey, much to everyone's confusion. Maya informs everyone that he only dates white girls. When they tell Zoey this, she disbelieves them, accuses them of being jealous, and is kicked out of their Disney Princess party. Meanwhile, Suga Mama reunites with her friend Celia (Jane Lynch) and heads out to Wiz Vegas. Celia is overly lucky and Suga Mama becomes Jealous and accuses her of stealing Papi from her. Zoey crashes the Disney party and Penny tries to have everyone express their feelings, but this causes a bigger rift between them. Penny and Suga Mama talk with Suga Mama making up with Celia. At the Valentine's Day dance, Zoey tells the girls that she broke up with Noah about his preferences and they apologize for ostracizing her. Myron asks Zoey to dance, admitting that he is attracted to her brain rather than her skin color and she accepts.
Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, or simply Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, is an American animated television series based on the characters of the same name by Marvel Comics. The series is produced by Disney Television Animation, Marvel Animation and Cinema Gypsy Productions, with animation services being provided by Flying Bark Productions. It premiered on Disney Channel on February 10, 2023, and will be released on Disney+ five days later.
After 13-year-old super-genius Lunella accidentally brings ten-ton red, horned, T-Rex, Devil Dinosaur into present-day New York City via a time vortex, the duo works together to protect the city's Lower East Side from danger. - บันเทิง
This is my Black History Month video unless by some miracle, I actually make my video on the Beyonder episode of Moon Girl in the next week. Maybe if this video gets a lot of shares, views and likes.
Edit: Two months later, here's that video - th-cam.com/video/a-rwWPff7hc/w-d-xo.html
"So social issues I try to get
in in the background, or
underlying a plot, but never to
the point of letting interfere
with a story or hitting the
reader over the head.”
- Stan Lee
As the indefatigable 92-year-old
superhero conjurer and Marvel Comics
chairman emeritus sees it, fan backlash
up until this point hasn't so much been
spurred on by racism as much as
unyielding fealty to the source material.
"They're outraged not because of any
personal prejudice, Lee says. "They're
outraged because they hate to see any
change made on a series and characters
they had gotten familiar with. In Spider-
Man, when they got a new actor, that
bothered them, even though it was a
white actor. I don't think it had to do with
racial prejudice as much as they don't like
things changed."
“I wouldn't mind. if Peter Parker had originally
been black. a Latino, an lndian or anything else that he stay that way. But we originally made him white. I dont see any reason to change that. It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti- black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it's so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to.”
-Stan Lee
GROTH: How did you feel about communism
then?
KIRBY: Oh, communism! That was a burning
issue. It was an outrageous issue. To be termed a communist would damage your whole family, damage your whole world- your friends wouldn't talk to you. I'm talking about other people -because I wouldn't go near the stuff. Sure, I was against the reds. I became a witch hunter. My enemies were the commies -I called them commies. In fact, Granny Goodness was a commie, Doubleheader was a commie.
STAN'S SOAPBOX
“This month we're gonna yak about
something that has nothing to do with
our mags! Over the years we've re
ceived a zillion letters asking for the
Builpen's opinion about such diverse
subjects as Viet Nam, civil rights, the
war on poverty, and the upcoming elec
tion. We're fantasmagorically fiattered
that our opinion wouid matter to you,
but here's the hang-up: there ISN'T any
unanimous Bullpen opinion about any
thing. except possibly mother Iove and
apple pie! Take the election, for exam
ple. Soine of us are staunch Demo-
crats. and others dyed-in-the-wool
publicans. As for Yours Truly and a few
others, we prefer to judge the person,
rather than the party line. That's why
we seek to avoid editorializing about
controversial issues not because we
haven't our opinions, but rather be
cause we share the same diversity of
opinion as Americans everywhere. But.
we'd like to go on record about one
vital issue we believe that Man has
a divine destiny, and an awesome re
sponsibility the responsibility of
treating all who share this wondrous
world of ours with tolerance and re
spect judging each fellow human on
his own merit, regardless of race,
creed, or color. That we agree on
and we'll never rest until it, becomes
a fact, rather than just a cherished
dream. Excelsior, Smiley.”
GROTH: How did you feel about the Senate
Subcommittee Hearings? Did you think that
was a witch-hunt, or did you think there was
any validity to the public's concern?
KIRBY: I didn't feel one way or another about it. I was only hoping that it would come out well
enough to continue comics, that it wouldn't
damage comics in anyway, so I could continue
Working. I was a young man. I was still growing
out of the East Side. The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I'd beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it.
GROTH: Were you very political?
KIRBY:I wasn't then. I was very concerned with
comics. I'm political now. I knew this much - that everybody voted Democrat down my way. If you were poor, you voted Democrat and if you were rich you voted Republican.
STARLOG: We all noticed the lack of
women in the Star Wars trilogy. Are you go-
ing to bring more women in for future Star
Wars films?
LUCAS: Well, what of Princess Leia?
When you're making a war film, how are
you going to put women in it? Think of
other war films, think of The Longest Day,
those films. Well, it's your galaxy; I have to
go with the rest of the world. And still make
it believable. I'm not sure how many women
will be in the rest of the films; that's the kind
of thing that plots dictate. What would Star
Wars have been like if Han Solo had been a
woman?
“Still others picked up on Lucas's
Vietnam allegory, though Lucas, wary of politics, publicly disavowed any and all sociopolitical theories and quashed any speculation on the deeper meaning of his film. For Lucas, it was enough that Star Wars could be merely entertaining-and entirely the point.”
“FOOLS WILL TELL YOU THAT IT'S INHU-
MAN TO LIVE BY BLACK AND WHITE
PRINCIPLES BUT HUMAN TO ACCEPT
AND PRACTISE GREY PRINCIPLES. TO BE
CORRUPI. TO COMPROMISE WITH EVIL!
THERE 1S NO MIDDLE OF THE ROAD
BETWEEN GOOD A ND EVIL!THE Y ARE
NOT TWO ROADS GOING IN THE SAME
DIRECTI ON BUT OPPOSI TE ROADS TO
DIFFERENT GOALS!
YOUR CHOICE OF ACTIONS WILL DE -
TERM INE IN WHICH DIRECTION YOU
WILL LEAD YOURSELF !
CHO OSE YOUR ROAD- NO ONE CAN
DO IT FOR YOU!”
Copyright Steve Ditko 1963
"Star Wars deals with the essential
problem: Is the machine going to
control humanity, or is the machine
going to serve humanity? Darth Vader
is a man taken over by a machine, he
becomes a machine, and the state
itself is a machine. There is no
humanity in the state. What runs the
world is economics and politics, and
they have nothing to do with
the spiritual life."
- Joseph Campbel
From "PW Interviews Joseph Campbell, by Chris Goodrich"
Publisher's Weekly (August 23, 1985, p.74-75)
Great storytelling is what’s important.
The Stories that aren’t political at all and are based on good writing, good characters , deeper lessons, morals and entertainment
as well as the stories that do have political elements but are more focused on an engaging story,a well thought out lesson or idea behind it and interesting characters are the stories that make great entertainment. As my film teacher taught me Art before politics, always. The story & characters comes first whether the politics are subtle, secondary or completely non existent.
Great now let’s clear up any false narrative about the great storytellers of old. They were not the kind of political activist mostly failing to write comics today the modern ones anyway. It doesn’t matter what politics they believed conservative, liberal, traditional, progressive if they even believed in any because a lot of them were also apolitical when making comics, movies etc. You had a lot of apolitical comics back in the day when comics were first being made especially early DC & early marvel. When social or political topics would come up in a story they would either be subtle, secondary to the great plots, and well made characterization and/or intelligent written to the point that it actually felt like the storyteller has something to say that was worth while like Steve Ditko, Alan Moore & Frank Miller which trust me when I tell you all three have wildly different political views.
Steve Ditko was one of those Ayn Rand conservative or libertarian types. Stan Lee had a 60’s Liberal thing going on but he helped make Iron Man specifically to trick the hippy crowd in his day into liking a rich weapons arms dealer. Jack Kirby was apolitical for most of his comic book making career the only time he got political was when nut like Hitler would turn up. These guys showed that whether the comics were apolitical or political free as like to mockingly call them Or subtle when it came to political intent that they would make good stories. Good stories weren’t sacrificed just to get a political point across. That’s what Stan Lee means by hitting people over the head.
Great storytelling is what’s important.
The Stories that aren’t political at all and are based on good writing, good characters , deeper lessons, morals and entertainment
as well as the stories that do have political elements but are more focused on an engaging story,a well thought out lesson or idea behind it and interesting characters are the stories that make great entertainment. As my film teacher taught me Art before politics, always. The story & characters comes first whether the politics are subtle, secondary or completely non existent.
“Still others picked up on Lucas's
Vietnam allegory, though Lucas, wary of politics, publicly disavowed any and all sociopolitical theories and quashed speculation on the deeper meaning of his film. For Lucas, it was enough that Star Wars could be merely entertaining-and entirely the point.”
ROSE: Could I show you a list of the 100
best films (LAUGH) and how many of 'em
are made by George Lucas?
LUCAS: Yeah, but they're not made to --
they -- yes, they have a political
undertone. I mean, especially "Star
Wars" has got a very, very elaborate
social, emotional, political context that it
rests in. But of course, nobody was
aware of that. Nobody says, "Oh my
gosh." But if you actually watch the
movies, it's there. And you subliminally
get the fact of what happens to you if
you've got a dysfunctional government
that's corrupt and doesn't work.
Let’s repeat
LUCAS: Yeah, but they're not made to --
they -- yes, they have a political
undertone. I mean, especially "Star
Wars" has got a very, very elaborate
social, emotional, political context that it
rests in.
Undertone - A subdued or muted tone of sound or color.
So by George’s view the political elements and context are an undertone within his films
And of course we have the quote by Joseph Campbell George’s mentor when it came to heroes and myth making who the media claimed was right wing during his time.
"Star Wars deals with the essential
problem: Is the machine going to
control humanity, or is the machine
going to serve humanity? Darth Vader
is a man taken over by a machine, he
becomes a machine, and the state
itself is a machine. There is no
humanity in the state. What runs the
world is economics and politics, and
they have nothing to do with
the spiritual life."
- Joseph Campbel
From "PW Interviews Joseph Campbell, by Chris Goodrich"
Publisher's Weekly (August 23, 1985, p.74-75)
When asked how does racial Justice fit into Star Wars George had a pretty interesting answer: Student:"The world has changed so much since the first Star Wars movie.
How do you think the change in the
fights for racial justice will impact
the Star Wars universe going
forward?"
George Lucas responds with the following:
"Uh, I don't know. I mean, I've kind of
lost control of Star Wars, so it's
going off in a different path than
what I intended. But the first six are
very much mine, and my
philosophy. And I think that
philosophy sort of, goes beyond
any particular time, because it's
based on history, it's based on
philosophy, it's based on a lot of
things. And, you know, the first three
basically tell you how democracy
turns into a dictatorship and you
end up with a tyrant, the Emperor.
It's very important now, where we
are now in our political history."
He continues to talk about his take on Star
Wars: “All of the various colors and
shapes of the aliens and
everything, that live in that world, it's
a normal situation, there's no real
discrimination. The only
discrimination is against robots,
and we haven't really reached that
period yet, and I'm sure the robots
will be able to overcome it because
they dont have the same feelings.
But it really shows you in terms of
the way the politics are and the
way things are and how to fight
those ideas. Anda lot of it really has
to do with overcoming fear.”
So by George’s view Star Wars is timeless and doesn’t completely represent any particular time period but reflects the cycle of human history and within his Galaxy & Universe Of Star Wars there isn’t any real discrimination or racism between the species.
STARLOG: We all noticed the lack of
women in the Star Wars trilogy. Are you go-
ing to bring more women in for future Star
Wars films?
LUCAS: Well, what of Princess Leia?
When you're making a war film, how are
you going to put women in it? Think of
other war films, think of The Longest Day,
those films. Well, it's your galaxy; I have to
go with the rest of the world. And still make
it believable. I'm not sure how many women
will be in the rest of the films; that's the kind
of thing that plots dictate. What would Star
Wars have been like if Han Solo had been a
woman?
So George also didn’t care to introduce new characters just to appeal to modern audiences with social controversies like the amount of women in a film without first creating a character that works specifically for the plot. George essentially made characters regardless of race, & gender that would fit the plots he wrote instead of just adding them for no reason other then being politically correct. That is very interesting.
I wonder how many modern progressives would flip from quotes like this:
"I did not want to put boy's clothes
on a woman. I wanted a woman
who was a woman, who was very
strong, wise, and a leader." -
George Lucas
(George describing the designs of Princess Leia’s clothes.)
But Lucas hit back in an interview with Newsnight
presenter Kirsty Wark - and blamed fans on the Internet who took an instant dislike to the new character. He said: "Those criticisms are made
by people who've obviously never met
a Jamaican, because it's definitely not
Jamaican and if you were to say
those lines in Jamaican they wouldn't
be anything like the way Jar Jar Binks
George Lucas:”it’s completely absurd - Jar Jar was not drawn from a Jamaican" says them.
“They're basing a whole issue of racism on an accent, an accent that they don't understand. Therefore if they don't understand it, it must be bad.
"How in the world you could
take an orange amphibian
and say that he's a
Jamaican? It's completely
absurd. Believe me, Jar Jar
was not drawn from a
Jamaican, from any stretch
of the imagination."
He said the allegations said
more about the people
Jar Jar Binks: Has come under
fire for alleged racial stereotyping making the claims than they did about his film.
"There is a group of fans for the films that doesn't like comic sidekicks. They want the films to be tough like Terminator, and they get very upset and opinionated about anything that has anything to do with being childlike.
"The movies are for children but they don't want to admit that. In the first film they absolutely hated R2 and C3-PO. In the second film they didn't like Yoda and in the third one they hated the Ewoks... and now Jar Jar is getting accused of the same thing."
Internet fascination. He believes the US media's fascination with the Internet
Created the controversy "The American press uses the internet as their source
for everything, so when
people were creating
Websites saying. 'Let's get
rid of Jar Jar Binks, he's
terrible' and some of the
critics were describing him
as a comic sidekick, they
came in and they started
calling the film racist."
Lucas with Jake Lloyd on the set
of the film, He added: "It started out as a way of just selling newspapers and then other people have sort of picked it up. But it really reflects more the racism of the people who are making the comments than it does the movie." Well there you have it folks George calling out Media Wokeness before a lot of people online and tv.
So George has his political views but he is a master storyteller for many reasons and one of them is putting the story and characters essentially The Art Before The Politics.
"So social issues I try to get
in in the background, or
underlying a plot, but never to
the point of letting interfere
with a story or hitting the
reader over the head.
- STAN LEE
GROTH: How did you feel about the Senate
Subcommittee Hearings? Did you think that
was a witch-hunt, or did you think there was
any validity to the public's concern?
KIRBY: I didn't feel one way or another about it. I was only hoping that it would come out well enough to continue comics, that it wouldn't damage comics in anyway, so I could continue Working. I was a young man. I was still growing out of the East Side. The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I'd beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it.
GROTH: Were you very political?
KIRBY:I wasn't then. I was very concerned with comics. I'm political now. I knew this much - that everybody voted Democrat down my way. If you were poor, you voted Democrat and if you were rich you voted Republican.
Power doesn't corrupt. It's neutral.
Someone always wants to corrupt
power. It's the way a shotgun is not
a deadly weapon until someone
chooses to use it irrationally.
STEVE DITKO
Prolific Batman writer and the creator of the villain Bane, Chuck Dixon, recently explained why politics do not belong in superhero comics.
Dixon shared his thoughts in his most recent episode of Ask Chuck Dixon where he was asked by Chris Cueva, “Are you against politics in comics completely?”
Dixon answered the question stating, “Absolutely not. I’ve written political books. I did The Forgotten Man, a history of the Great Depression, adapting Amity Shlaes epic, epic history of some of the darkest years in American history.”
He continued, “I don’t think it’s political, but it is because it’s seen to have a conservative viewpoint, it’s very down on the New Deal, which I don’t think history is going to judge well in the end. So I’ve done that.”
“Clinton Cash a far more political book. An adaptation of Peter Schweizer’s exposure of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s rather tawdry work with their foundation and how basically they used it to enrich themselves. It’s purely political. So I’m not against politics in comics. I’m not against anybody’s politics in comics,” he detailed. Dixon then went on to discuss that he read Spain Rodriguez’s Trashman series. He said, “Back in the underground days I used to read Trashman by Spain Rodriguez. It basically calls for Marxist revolution in the United States, bloody Marxist revolution. It’s very anti-American. Very anti-white when you get right down to it.
He elaborated, “I dug the energy of it. I didn’t believe in any of it. I didn’t agree with any of it, but I certainly respected Spain Rodriguez’s right to make any comic book he wants.”
Dixon then transitioned to explain why he believes politics doesn’t belong in superhero comics.
He explained, “My problem with politics in comics is when you mix it with mainstream comics. When superheroes take a side, decide that they’re Democrat or Republican. And 99.99% of the time they are going to side with the Democrat. Where one president is seen as a hero and the other one is seen as an ogre or a coward or whatever depending on their party line. Now, like the old Mad Magazine, if comics were to either elevate or mock each president with the same severity to the same level I’d be fine with it. But this is politics being put into a place it does not belong. Politics does not belong in superhero comics,” Dixon declared. He explained, “My problem with politics in comics is when you mix it with mainstream comics. When superheroes take a side, decide that they’re Democrat or Republican. And 99.99% of the time they are going to side with the Democrat. Where one president is seen as a hero and the other one is seen as an ogre or a coward or whatever depending on their party line.” “Now, like the old Mad Magazine, if comics were to either elevate or mock each president with the same severity to the same level I’d be fine with it. But this is politics being put into a place it does not belong. Politics does not belong in superhero comics,” Dixon declared. He then asserted, “I’ve said it before, I’ve said it again. I’m a comics fan, you’re a comics fan, but let’s face it these characters were created to entertain children. They were never meant to be political. They were never meant to be literature. They were never meant to be meaningful. They were just meant to be good solid American red-blooded entertainment. And putting politics into it, ruins it. It ruins anything.” “If you made a political Kung Fu movie, I would say the same thing. Get off it. Stop doing that,” he concluded. What do you make of Dixon’s explanation about why politics do not belong in superhero comics?”
As the indefatigable 92-year-old
superhero conjurer and Marvel Comics
chairman emeritus sees it, fan backlash
up until this point hasn't so much been
spurred on by racism as much as
unyielding fealty to the source material.
"They're outraged not because of any
personal prejudice, Lee says. "They're
outraged because they hate to see any
change made on a series and characters
they had gotten familiar with. In Spider-
Man, when they got a new actor, that
bothered them, even though it was a
white actor. I don't think it had to do with
racial prejudice as much as they don't like
things changed." - STAN LEE
I wouldn't mind. if Peter Parker had originally
been black. a Latino, an lndian or anything else.That he stay that way. But we originally made him white. I dont see any reason to change that. It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it's so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. -STAN LEE
GROTH: How did you feel about communism
then?
KIRBY: Oh, communism! That was a burning
issue. It was an outrageous issue. To be termed a communist would damage your whole family, damage your whole world- your friends wouldn't talk to you. I'm talking about other people -because I wouldn't go near the stuff. Sure, I was against the reds. I became a witch hunter. My enemies were the commies -I called them commies. In fact, Granny Goodness was a commie, Doubleheader was a commie.
"Today's flawed superheroes are superior in physical strength but common, average, ordinary in mental strength and rich in super-powers but bankrupt in reasoning powers."
-Steve Ditko (1987) "The Masters of Comic Book Art" documentary
"Comic book fans who later became editors, writers, wanted flawed heroes, anti-heroes to suit their own unwillingness to seek higher standards. It seems comic book companies, publishers, editors, too many writers and artists, all want the comfort of the anti-hero, where we're ALL grey, so no one can judge anyone or anything."
- STEVE DITKO (2014) E 23 318
STAN'S SOAPBOX
This month we're gonna yak about
something that has nothing to do with
our mags! Over the years we've re
ceived a zillion letters asking for the
Builpen's opinion about such diverse
subjects as Viet Nam, civil rights, the
war on poverty, and the upcoming election. We're fantasmagorically fiattered
that our opinion wouid matter to you,
but here's the hang-up: there ISN'T any unanimous Bullpen opinion about any
thing. except possibly mother Iove and apple pie! Take the election, for exam
ple. Soine of us are staunch Demo-
crats. and others dyed-in-the-wool
publicans. As for Yours Truly and a few
others, we prefer to judge the person,
rather than the party line. That's why
we seek to avoid editorializing about
controversial issues not because we
haven't our opinions, but rather be
cause we share the same diversity of
opinion as Americans everywhere. But.
we'd like to go on record about one
vital issue we believe that Man has
a divine destiny, and an awesome re
sponsibility the responsibility of
treating all who share this wondrous
world of ours with tolerance and re
spect judging each fellow human on
his own merit, regardless of race,
creed, or color. That we agree on
and we'll never rest until it, becomes
a fact, rather than just a cherished
dream. Excelsior, Smiley.
There is all kinds of art not all art is political, you have a lot of art that is apolitical, you have a lot of art that is connected to politics in some way but very often this identity politics method has been the focus of the art instead of the art itself. This is what is pushing audiences away. Whether Art is completely apolitical or has political elements in it the Art itself always comes first, as one of my film teachers taught me Art before politics. The Art itself always comes first before anything else or it isn’t successful
When you push identity politics or any kind of politics before the art itself people aren’t entertained. When people aren’t entertained they cease to enjoy the product and that’s why these franchises are loosing more and more money compared to before. Also whether Art is completely apolitical or has a form of a connection to politics there is always a certain level of escapism in most art, when that escapism is completely erased and any political connection if they was any originally is cranked up people see past the illusion. One of the key things that makes great stories successful compared to a lot of stories now that are often controversial is the fact that those successful stories have a lot of deep ideas & morals that can’t be simply chalked down to a specific political or apolitical view. A lot of bad stories today just tell you what to think when good stories back then just told you to think. Great stories convinced their audiences to ask questions they didn’t just tell their audiences what to think or believe.
@@bendu8282 You do realize stan Lee was white right? White people don't really understand the concept of politics because it majorly favours them unconsciously. Media is always pushed to white people. Every main character, every main superhero I grew up with, Every one of them was white. Even in X-men, I didn't know storm or t'challa existed until recently in my older teens. But you know who has to think about politics all the time? Black people, mexicans, the lgbtq+ community because politics always debate on whether we live or we die. Whether we even deserve rights. Prior to 2012, the only black movies I'd see casting a majority black cast has to do with slavery and in the end there's a white saviour to help the 'uneducated' blacks. Arabs are consistently potrayed as b*mbers and trans people are seen as predators. No offence, but I wouldn't think someone like stan lee would understand any problem a minority would face simply because we're minorities. He was a white man. Unless y'all want to stop debating minorities and let us actually have rights, then we wouldn't stop writing politics in our stories and issues that affect us and we're not going to stop because you feel uncomfortable or you don't understand.
Homeboy you blew up with this one
Dude, I worked on Louder and Prouder, and I'll tell you this a lot of us animators felt the same way about the way they treated Zoey. without the one throw away line, the whole episode is just them being jerks. Granted they are consistently jerks to Penny as well.
Did anyone object or executives didn't care or something? The topic itself sounds like it was pulled from your usual black twitter thread.
@@sabrinag9610 Well, there were some other issues that the directors were dealing with, Things like which Costumes the girls would wear, and certain jokes (that I don't think I'm allowed to talk in depth about), all this to say, by the time it gets to animators there is very little chance they'll change a story.
I can tell you how I felt, but I can't really say how the pre-prod ppl make their decisions.
@@sdastoryteller3381 It’s okay. I understand. I always thought how interesting one’s perspective would be working on a show that knows when something isn’t right, because it’s bad enough interlopers misconstrue what colorism is on its own when it’s been a conversation in black communities for years, thinking it’s made up. The writing execution could’ve been better is all but it makes a pathway for people to be more dismissive about it, y’know? But you guys did great with the costumes ❤
@@sdastoryteller3381 So they prioritized Disney references over positive messaging.
Exactly what's your name and what was your job on the show?
Im so glad do many black people spoke up against that episode of louder and prouder. There's a line and they clearly crossed it.
Yes I agree are you black?
@@rediamond7818 🤨
@@rediamond7818 weird thing to ask
@@rediamond7818 it doesn't matter if they are black or not
@@jonal5126 it does but I’m not gonna argue please don’t respond
I think Moon Girl did a wonderful job, however, Proud Family has always had bad writing when it comes to women and the friend group as a whole. And this one wasn’t written well at all especially since Dijonay & Penny already have partners.
YES! I was waiting for someone to mention this!
The reason they ignored their partners in the start of the episode was the writers trying to convey how lighter skin African Americans are high in the beauty standard and Noah was way lighter compared to Darius and Kareem. I felt like this was conveyed very well, and could’ve had potential, but what annoyed me is how they didn’t do anything with it.
I just never know why they was upset Penny & Dijonay have boyfriends now
Why are you mad the Proud Family told the truth ? Unpaid labor did start the wealth of America and the Trading of the goods that went around the world…. And our ancestors never got reparations instead we faced blatant racism and oppression which just started getting better in the late 2010s be real. God is really going to show y’all. Just wait.
Both girls should've been dumped by their boyfriend's
I'm frankly convinced the writer of proud family have never had none toxic friends
I broke your 69 likes. Forgive me.
I'm also convinced that the creators of the show either have no daughters or don't listen to their daughters. Just because the show focuses on a family doesn't mean you can't give the teenage girl decent female friends. We are tired of the trope of demonizing teenage girls. [The same people that created the og show also created the reboot.]
Isn't it a different writer for the reboot? Not like it matters though Penny's friends were ALWAYS TRASH.
@@marshallthomasiii6091That doesn't mean they need to STAY trash. If the creator of this reboot is expecting teenagers or kids to watch this show and learn lessons, then the least they should do is make the main friend group actually good friends to each other. They can't talk about stereotypes and how they're harmful, yet have the main friend group be a harmful stereotype.
@@rainbowdino9310 I mean yeah I agree, but with how absolutely terrible all these remakes and reboots are do you really think these writers have that in mind? They REVEL in their toxicity, and lack nuance to talk about serious subjects. When I heard about them rebooting this series in THIS climate I already knew nonsense like this was coming, they did the same thing with the Static Shock comic reboot, they cannot help themselves at this point. Not to mention Penny's friends being garbage is what drives a lot of the conflict in the show, so if they DO develop it'd effectively be ending the series. Not a bad idea for a series finale honestly, but do I trust these writers to actually do that? Nope. 😑
That whole "Has any other boy EVER ask you out to a dance?" punched me right in the gut straight back to high school. You never really get over being told you're too ugly for anyone to like.
Even if the writers felt like Noah HAD to be that way, I wish they would've used this opportunity to have Zoey break off from this so-called friend group. Like, it didn't matter if it was true-these people are NOT her friends. She's had her moments in the OG, but she's always been the best out of them. Deserves better, honestly.
Not to mention the only guy to only ask her out is the one her friends and the show considers to be "ugly" as if she isn't worthy of being with someone considered attractive
Zoey was the one who won the dance off against the Peanut People in the movie. She was always the best girl. 👍
@@hope-cat4894But Louder and Prouder proved that the film was nothing, but a long dream sequence.
yea but she's white so it's fine for her to be treated bad
(not being hyperbolic just seems to be a recurring theme in modern media)
@@keyscored3710 It's strange how people would happily bash a character just for a skin color they deemed "evil"
kinda.. reminds me of something
Yeah, I didn’t like that Proud Family episode at all. They were clearly hating on Zoey and I don’t understand why she apologized. Just another example of them being bad friends.
I feel like she apologized because the comment of only liking white girls hurt their feelings making them feel less. Dijonay saying she didn't get it was that Zoey is their friend and someone dating you for their race and nothing else is shallow when there's more to a person than that. I can't change your opinion I feel like there were issues with the episode as well but maybe this helps?
you right, they should have apologized to her. Like it wasnt her fault plus the boy had a preference and they had bf's already.Penny and zoey need to dump their old friends and get new ones cause they are trash.
@@heathed4945Yes but the boy was dating Zoey because she was white not the other way around. They are supposed to be her friends, yet they don’t telling her the problem then they just attack her and uninvited her from the party. They didn’t even go ask the boy, if he only like white girls. They heard a rumor and got mad at her for it and then she had to fix the friendships. She was just excited about a boy that everyone wanted to go to the dance with inviting her. That’s my problem with her apologizing.
@@DeannaRaThat includes their new “friend” Maya too as she was the one that started the whole thing between them to begin with. I was in and off with the chick to begin with but she never got called out for leading them to that Fallout and watched them fuel the fire over the course of the episode.
and justify it with colorism is a bad ending atleast they should release there wrong and apologizes for bieng me to zoey
The topic of racial preference deals with issues of both misogyny and fetishization and they didn't cover either of those, they basically said "No one is allowed to love you because you're white and ugly"
Really, there is a really interesting conversation about how white women and lighter skinned women are continually fetishzised as being demure and pretty little help mates and yet this show did absolutely nothing with that.
This exactly omfg
I didn't watch this episode but I think this video makes it pretty clear they tried to convey the message that zoey was completely unattractive to convey that she was only asked out because she was white. almost like they are saying "how could this boy pick this fugly weird ass white girl over me? it clearly is because of her white privilege", and it just sounds mean spirited. also kind of sexist since it's the boy's fault
I think what hits hardest is that they made zoey apologize FIRST. they spent the whole episode dogging on her and keeping her out of the friend group instead of telling her what was wrong because she clearly didn't know. The whole episode could've been solved if someone had taken the time to talk to her before the princess party. She didn't need to apologize because SHE WAS NOT THE ONE WHO WAS BEING ARROGANT
Yeah I notice that they use shots of her looking messy or gross, to show that it’s simply implausible that a guy should ever like her. That’s just so messed up.
I never understand why everyone was ganging up Zoey for? Hardly any justification.
Dijonay & Penny ALREADY have boyfriends, Maya claims she hates drama but she chose to start the rumor.
Lacienega has always been that one toxic friend
Accurate on how young women aren’t the brightest
Because in this group of 'Black and brown girls' Zoe is the odd one out and 'doesn't get the struggle'. That was sort of the point of Zoe in the original, turning the trope of the 'only Black friend' a lot of shows have to the 'only White friend' but they didn't treat her this shitty and I think that's because Bruce didn't want to use a child as a punching bag for moral lessons. The new writers don't have that same time of nuance with the characters and more than likely view Zoe as ignorant to everything BECAUSE she's White and it's up to the rest of the girls to 'educate her'.
They definitely could’ve handled it better. It’s totally possible to make an ignorant but not mean spirited character. Like in Arthur Muffy doesn’t always understand how much her wealthy background gives her privilege, but she’s not a bad friend and will listen to criticism if she offends her friends @@SuperCosmicMutantSquid
@@crazybobert5243 young people aren't the brightest in general
@@crazybobert5243 Gotta love sexism.
With the Proud Family episode, it handled Colorism poorly. For me, if I could rewrite it, I would have had him ask Zo out. In the episode, the girls are happy for Zo because she isn't the traditional beautiful girl and the are just hyping her up. Later in the episode, Dejoney overhears Noah having a conversation and he says that he only likes Zoey because she is white. She's struggling on how to go about it and tell her friend that her mans a jerk. Zoey and Noah have a cute little date and Zo is just really happy, gushing to her friends about it and even wanting to plan a date with them and their boyfriends together. Dejoney flips out and spills the tea. Zo and Dejoney get into a heated argument and Penny is struggling to find a way to fix this. She talks with her mom about it and she gives her some advice. Zo confronts Noah about why he asked her out, because she is scared that Dejoney's words are true (in the argument, Dejoney would shit talk her looks and even say something like, "He only likes you cause you Becky with the good hair" or something along those lines) and Noah does admit that yeah, her being white is a HUGE reason for him asking her out. She dumps him and is upset, crying at a park and Suga Mama sees her. Gives her some words of wisdom because that child is her grandbaby's best friend. She'll give her that tough love because that's just how Suga Mama is. Zoey ends up going to Dejoney and is like, "You're right" and Dejoney is like, "sorry" because it sucks seeing your friend getting their hopes up like that. And in the end of the episode, the friend group along with their boyfriends go to the dance and just having a good time together because even if shit hits the fan, they genuinely have each other's backs.
But yeah, my issue with some of the Proud Family episodes is just the fact that all the kids be toxic friends. In the old show, they had that issue too but it was nowhere near to the point like in the reboot
This! This right here! Awesome! Why do the fans always write better stories than the actual show writers?
@@MatthaisUnidostres Because fans aren't harkened to out-of-touch company overlords, time constraints, and views to make a living. Being given more freedom and time to write a show makes the best shows. Just look at how popular Gravity Falls was. It was well written, had time, and the writers had plenty of freedom. And had a planned ending.
Now look at shows that run like a weekly episode format and cash cow. Things become stale and repetitive, nearly everything maintains a status quo, hardly any originality, it's formulaic. Even the best shows lose it's magic and just ends up hanging onto it's early success.
Yes! This exactly I was thinking this the build needed to be a slow burn and Suga mama is the perfect character to deal with Zoe's feelings
They easily could’ve replaced the whole princess party scene with your idea.
That episode wasn't just about colorism. It was also about racial fetishization and they could have used that episode to tackle how a lot of MRA and incel movements within communities use white women to spread their propaganda. While that episode was written terribly, how zoey reacted to her friends warning her about Noah is exactly how a lot of white gals that dated/married guys of color with white gal fetishes reacted when their non-white female friends try to warn them about the guys they are with. [An episide strictly focusing on colorism would have had penny learning how she benefits from colorism compared to dijonay, maya, and the gross sisters.]
Unlike that episode, which feels like it was written and produced by men rather than by women that experience colorism and racial fetishization, your idea actually reflects how a lot of women and girls of color experience colorism and racial fetishization. We also could have seen maya's cousin, who could be either noah's ex or friends with one of noah's exes. And noah should have been a regular guy at school looking for a date to a school dance, not a celebrity doing a date-a-celeb-for-a-day event.
People need to remember that the proud family was created by cis straight men and it shows, with how they handled penny's female friendships.
Unrelated note but can we talk about how Michael dresses up as Pocahontas to “pay tribute to Powhatan heritage” which is like 🤦🏽♀️ I’m not Native American but from what I’ve heard from them and of people from the Powhatan tribe is that don’t like the Disney character or movie Pocahontas which rewrote the story of a kidnapped child bride. Also the production behind it is also crazy with character designers saying a native women are not pretty and using other races to model Pocahontas on
Yeah, if anything you'd expect Disney to sweep it under the rug given how inaccurate and in poor taste it is. I guess they still gotta sell them dolls.
Right, wasn't Pocahontas was based mainly on Naomi Campbell's facial features? Also I feel like Michael dressing as Pocahontas was just done to spurr a debate on whether non-binary/gender fluid people should dress as Disney princesses.
Yeah from what I've heard the Powhatan really didn't like the movie. The tribe actually approached Disney about helping to make it more accurate to their culture and Disney turned them away. And they also had a historical/tribal/some sort of expert on the film who left because they said Disney didn't want history, they wanted to tell a fairy tale.
How much you wanna bet they just added that he was native american just to dress him up as a girl?
@@Culo_Sniffin_Cheezit It was at least An excuse to dress him up as Pocahontas.
Right up until the "reveal" I was convinced Noah was just into oddball nerd girls and that this was supposed to teach about non-conventional attractiveness. Another swing and a miss from the new Proud Family
It sucks now
Tbh "revamping" the Proud Family was one of the worst decisions Disney has made. 💀 It's literally just "watch Penny's shitty friend group tear each other apart for 20 minutes".
As someone that forced themselves to stay with shitty friends in school to avoid being a loner, I feel sorry for the kids that take this show to heart.
Yeah I wish this show was left alone. I think the quality of the show has gone down in their writing.
Yep.
Honestly, I’ve always thought the shows strength is when the show heavily focusing on the actual family or even just the adults rather than Penny and her friends.
The show was always like that but now we're not like 12 and we actually pick up on the toxicity.
@@lmao2703 yeah, cuz I binge watched the original series, and when it came to Penny’s friends…yeah there’s a reason why I like it when the show focused heavily on the actual family or just the adults rather than Penny and her friends. The revival made them 10x worse
I just don't understand why they would make the "bad guy" Zoey when she was pretty much the victim of the episode. Imagine how hurtful it is to never have anyone ask you out or like and you feel super ugly and then the first guy that asks you out you find out doesn't even like you but just did because of your skin color. Not only that but your friends confirm your worst insecurities and basically call you too ugly to date to your face (I was that kid in middle school because I had a lot of acne and frizzy hair). Like she was the victim of the episode and she shouldn't have apologized.
They pretty much making her date the one guy none of them want. Myron asks everyone out over and over. In the end it shows Zoey and him are together (even in the museum episode). They pretty much gaslight Zoey into thinking she has to date Myron because he isn't attractive and is disliked so it wouldn't be odd he would ask her. Zoey would most likely always have the thought in the back of her mind that she couldn't date anyone 'too good looking' or they are after her for something like her being white.
Yeah. PLUS, even if there wasn't all this nonsense about Zoey's friends being terrible to her, it would just Suuuuuuuuccccckkkkk to be in her position cus his stance on it is basically him saying that all *her friends* are ugly in his eyes, and she would be co-signing that belief/behaviour by staying with him - Which is so sad cus "ew, I dated a colourist" and "guess the only thing I got going for me is my skin colour :("
I genuinely don't understand how the ending of Zoey apologising got through, right til the end, especially after THAT line Lacieniga (I think) says.
There was a white girl that was considered pretty that the celebrity boy ignored at the beginning. He CHOSE Zoey for something else, but the episode made it about colorism. It's gross how her friends hated her because she was the one who got to date the celebrity when both Dijonay and Penny have boyfriends.
The Proud Family episode got colorism and preference mixed up. From what I heard, not once did any of the girls get disparage for their looks. They just heard that this boy liked white girls and went insane on Zoey. They did horrible in my opinion.
I mean, that literally is colourism. Having a “preference” for a for something as out of people’s hands, personal and sensitive as their colour is super suspect. And for the “preferences are not choice” argument - it’s only that. Your *preferences* aren’t a choice, but self-reflection and what you share *are* choices adults should be making when in relationships. I agree the Proud family episode is badly written, but ppl irl who shout these preferences everywhere do deserve the critique they won’t do themselves. Ppl and “preferences” don’t exist in a racismless vacuum, and it’s not “villainisation” to state otherwise.
@@blush3790 having a preference is not a problem. I'm not going to be hurt if a black man says he only dates white girls. Just don't put us black girls down. There are men who prefer blondes. Fine, don't make fun of brunettes. There are Cubans who may never date Colombians. And so on, and so forth. Preferences are *normal.* It's the put downs that's digusting. And that was not shown here. The reason why colorism hurts is not even just the preferences, it's all the insults that have been thrown at us, the way our children absorb these harmful thoughts and actions and are affected. Being open to at least not judge someone for the way they're born is all we ask for.
@@blush3790 I half agree. Majority of beauty preferences are rooted in anti-black/brown racism. But personal preferences aren't usually a chosen thing. The issue of colorism doesn't lie within the admiration of light skin, *but rather the disgust of darker skin.*
@@blush3790 Having a preference isnt "colorism" or "racism". It could be in some cases but for the most part, no. If a person doesn't prefer to date you because you're not to their liking, are you going to force them to tell you why? To explain themselves? Obviously no, because they don't owe you anything. If you KNOW that person and they have a reputation to be racist OR if they put you down for who you are, thats the time it becomes a problem, NOT the "preference" itself.
@@karentookthekids1267I agree with you, that’s kinda what I’m saying
One of the big problems with the Proud Family episode is that you know the characters wouldn't have said a single thing if Noah had picked anyone else. The second he picked Zoey, they looked for any reason to discredit the choice and boost their own egos. Except the story never calls them out for it. You know that if LaCienega had been picked, Maya and them wouldn't have been up in arms that Noah only likes latinas. And you know--YOU KNOW--Zoey wouldn't have been saying a thing about "staying with your own kind" if Noah picked Penny or Maya. The show can tackle a lot of interesting diverse or sensitive topics, but the characters they have to tell these stories are so mean spirited and toxic, it poisons the waters to the point the audience doesn't see the topic, they see these terrible people being terrible.
Honestly this is my problem with the reboot , the characters somtimes go over the top and borderline out of character compared to the original show and act unnecessarily mean to each other...also the conflict was statred by Maya with the old "my uncle who works at Nintendo " argument, and she wasn't even consistent throughout the episode about he justification for the gossip....I honestly thought the episode was gonna end with him genuinely liking Zoey because he likes smart girls and then maya reveals she was thinking of a different celebrity that goes to a different school .
@@maverickdarkrath4780 I suppose that's what it means to be "Louder and Prouder", but it is occurring to me more and more that, as even proud as the crew is and *unappologetic for it* as they put on twitter, that they don't realize there is a downside to this too that they don't seem to want to acknowledge much.
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You know damn well Maya would've brought up how Penny's lightskinned and that that's why Noah picked her, you can't deny it.
@@Culo_Sniffin_Cheezit yeah Maya really was the main instigator in this and many other episodes, kinda sucks how she's not only part if the group despite almost never being nice to them and clearly the creators favorite
@@maverickdarkrath4780 Exactly. And honestly, the old Penny would never hang around someone like Maya. Constantly spouting politics, straight up rude, I mean come on. At least Dijoney is nice at times and doesn't care that she's a dark skinned girl.
I definitely took note of how Dijonay and penny cast aside their boyfriends for the lighter skin boy and how lacienega and penny were particularly shocked and hurt when they weren’t the preference for once
Yeah..I’m also mad that Penny went along with this like what the heck? The same thing would’ve happened to her if she were in Zoey’s shoes.
@ThatValensteinGirl agreed! This episode had very little to do with colorism and more to do with insecurities and jealousy. It’s easier to make zoey the fall guy instead of lacienega or penny and how withinin the black beauty standard they are idealized.
I just had a big frown on my face when I was watching louder and prouder, and there was an episode where they needed a debate team member because zoey lost her voice, and penny kept only asking Asians characters to join. And when one called a racist she responded by saying “black people can’t be racist.” And Mya said “I agree, because racism is prejudice and power.” Like how are people this ignorant
I have no words. Holy shit.
And this is supposed to be a kid's show?
I was shocked when the episode continued like everything was fine after Maya said that, and also the whole point about slaves having built the country doesn't even remotely acknowledge the fact that poc weren't the only people being slave at that time... Idk this show feels more like propaganda than a family cartoon show
I had to stop watching it after this episode, the show its just so mean spirited and cold
That's so fucking weird because Asians are marginalized groups too. If they were white that would be different.
Black people can be racist..just not to white people
see moon girl is a pretty classic superhero cartoon where it follows the classic superhero structure:
1. Hero has a problem in her personal life
2. Tries to solve it with magic/science/powers, but it backfires
3. There's a villain related to the ramifications of their mistake
4. defeating the villain is also the same solution to their personal problem.
Every ep of moon girl (except the pilot and the finale) follow that structure, and the only reason this one episode is 'political' is because it has to do with a thing that doesnt effect white little girls. the hair episode could have been about wearing makeup or feeling insecure about her weight and this wouldnt even be a discussion. It was a moral fable for young girls, specifically young girls who experiment with harmful beauty products. (im white so idk if this is a common mistake kids will make) It doesnt advocate for any kinda political leaning, its literally saying 'hey dont damage your hair by using dangerous chemicals, heres how you take care of it properly'. Any cartoon that advocates for heathy choices is technically political in the same way.
I like Dinosaurs! ❤👹🦖
@@Master-Works more of a bug or sea animal fan myself.
Show sounds and looks nice so far I'm planning to see it on my free time.
@@kwayneboy1524 But Dinosaurs are so cool! Have you seen Jurassic Park?
@@Master-Works yeah but that was more of a horror flim
The best proof of colorism not being the reason Zoey was asked out (at least if the writers weren't idiots) is that there's other white girls in school who are more conventionally attractive, including the blond Noah ended up going with, who he saw before seeing Zoey.
But it was, because Zoey said he said it to her at the end of the episode
@@nyasjamillner8115 if the writers weren't idiots.
Read all of what I said next time.
@@nyasjamillner8115 IE, her skin color wasn't the only reason.
Also, the episode justifying this vile little bitch Maya was infuriating.
My question is why would that be wrong? You can be attracted to whoever. Some people find whites more personally attractive other people found black people more attractive. Who cares if he’s just more attracted to white chicks.
@@thedukeofchutney468 I don't believe it's wrong, I'm just saying then his attraction to Zoey isn't as shallow as colorism (which specifically is only the attraction due to skin color) since she's not the only white girl.
It's normal to have preferences, but the fact then logically he wasn't interested in Zoey for her skin color show then this accusation of colorism (colorism is messed up, and more then simply preference) is even more stupid then it already seemed.
The proud family episode is basically just "you're not conventionally attractive therefore he doesn't like you." I think the writer has the idea that tough love is the same as open mockery
The writers suck
Bless you, I've been so upset about that Proud Family episode. It was handled so poorly, didn't bother explaining what colorism is, how it would effect different people within the friend group depending on their gender/skin tone/hair texture/eye color/etc, nothing. It just made the girls seem mean and catty to each other again for the 100th time but even worse than before. And then made Dijonay and Penny into cheaters. It's such a weird choice to give them both boyfriends but the minute another cute guy comes along Penny forgets she's attached.
In any event, this video is great and breaks down what my issue with the episode is. And I'm glad Moon Girl is fairing a lot better honestly. Proud Family is disappointing me heavily.
The Proud Family revival is basically having the same problems I hated since the OG series, Moon Girl has waaay more likable characters then the Proud Family
I feel like the writers haven't learned anything since the og series. Its like they really want their characters to be unlikable as possible
@@andrenassif7290 It's definitely a case of them being "stuck in their ways" despite there being some more positive changes in the new series. And it was an issue I knew would be a problem when they revealed Dijonay's initial new design. The fact it took fans telling them to change it let me know not to get excited about the first season lmao
I mean, we've seen how the girls are so quick to turn their backs on each other, even in the original show. No offering any actual help, abandoning one another for themselves. LaCienaga is even openly expresses she doesn't like Penny from the moment she came onto the show. And for no reason.
The reboot only further exemplifies this and shows how shallow many of the characters are. Even Penny became unbearable as soon as she became an influencer, only apologizing for her behavior after her dad sold her out and she was exposed. As if she didn't learn the first time she became a big time celeb in the OG series.
Comedy is one thing, but alot of the behavior from the characters doesn't even seem funny to me. It's just shallow writing in order to make some sort of point from the writers' perspective in the end and no one really grows as people. In this day and age, shows that maintain the status quo no matter all the events that happened in previous episodes is just irritating. No call back, self-reflections, or character growth.
They even made Oscar even more of an idiot and failure of a business man than he was before. Why are shows constantly making the cartoon dad gradually stupider and idiotic than before?
@@djktsjytej The writers think its cleaver and funny to them and think it will work again for the reboot, this why its not a show I can ever rewatch cause characters like this
Actually as an European black girl, we go through the same issues, i like the fact that cartoons are more and more open to the matter and struggle black girls go through
Not the way The Proud Family does it
@@Master-Works Proud family is good at making these issues known. But not good at closing and resolving issues.
I just hope more characters use it to tell a good story and handle it well. Most of Hollywood is spiteful
You better not be 'bri'ish'
Purr
As a black girl who been in love with my white boyfriend for 5 years, this episode should have been done better,I remember being treated like Zoey too with my gals and when one my girlfriends say GIRL YOU just want that whiteboy for money and I was in tears, we still together it's just that this show,the creator, should have let Zoey and that boy stay together and leave those fake and clout girls behind my old black teacher told me to dont worry about it girl,it's your life it's your taste you do want you really want to do.my white therapist even say, you did the right thing,you and him deserve each other LIKE THATS HOW penny and the others should have been like
Nobody cares
@@itsbeyondme5560 shhh, j scroll babes
@@cherylfrank9226 Nope. I see mostly white people and black people who like white people complain about this episode. I just laughing
@@itsbeyondme5560 I'm a black person with a preference for other black people. The show clearly didn't handle colorism very well and if you can't see that irdk how to help you.
@@cherylfrank9226 I'm a black person who preferred no one because I hate people. 😤 I don't need help because I don't care. Did I said that bytch
I remember screaming, “WHY ARE YOU FREINDS WITH THESE PEOPLE ZOEY!!!?!” when that “Has any other boy ever asked you to the dance?” was said. I thought it would lead to them eventually realising they are wrong and apologising to Zoey, but because that show takes place in Bizarro land, ZOEY apologises for HER MISTAKE?!!?
Zoey deserves better man.
She’s not even ugly fr, like I think zoeys adorable!
Having Noah like Zoey because she WASNT infatuated with him immediately could have opened things up so much! You could have the struggle of trying to be “normal” for celebrities as well as Have the other girls think he only liked her for her skin color, then checking their own biases when the truth is revealed.
Not like the writers think more than skin deep though.
This to me was the worst proud family episode. Anytime Penny is trying to do the right thing she always get outnumbered and feels pressured to do what they want. Not a single person went and fact checked if it was true. To make matters worse almost all of them were quick to drop Zoey who was their friend for so long over a celebrity who just showed up.
And all this happened because of some stuff Maya’s cousin told her and she immediately believed to the point of using it to fuel this fire she started.
Even as someone that’s been on and off with her, I always knew that girl would be causing more harm than good for the group at some point.
I feel like Penny from the OG proud family would have said something. This Penny doesn't have a back bone anymore.
@@rosestar1324
I haven't seen much of either show, so I don't know how legit that is.
@@keijijohnson9754Yeah it’s pretty much a second hand source with the possibility of being exaggerated to where him bring a friend over turns into “he had a white girlfriend for every day of the week”
I never understood the appeal of Proud Family ngl. It's a series where 3 out of 5 titular girls are absolutely horrible to Zoey and Penny. Like they insult them, try to steal their boyfriend, constantly gaslight and manipulate them and in the end we are supposed to feel bad because "awh, my cousin is just sooooo bad even though I was the one who selfishly bullied her when we were kids and she just retaliated" or "I switched schools and I am an activist to imma be a total jerk to anyone EXCEPT THE ONLY RUDE TOXIC GIRL THAT TOTALLY DESERVES IT". Yeah, just the fact that Maya kept actively walking around with and supporting the girl who was actively trying to steal Penny's boyfriend makes her EXTREMELY unlikable.
The entire concept of the proud family episode was problematic. It just instills stereotypes against black women and women as a whole. Not to mention the part where Micheal shows up in a Pocahontas costume (which is highly inappropriate because the Pocahontas movie falsely represents the tragedy that really happened) and then claims one-off Powhatan heritage (which by the way, was never mentioned again or delved into) as a way to “justify” it.
The rewrite of Michael was one of the few things the reboot had going for me, but this episode completely ruined that. If he wanted to be a princess/Disney character, maybe NOT one that was based off a real story?
@@amandalynn4979 He could have pulled off an amazing little mermaid costume
@@amandalynn4979 I would have loved it if he did a gender bend of a prince!
@@suitdoggy4707 I personally think he would have pulled off Dolores Madrigal or Jasmine way better than Pocahontas!
I literally can't watch that movie after I learned about the real life thing years ago. I can understand lightening up a fairytale (Flynn/Eugene isn't blinded, Ariel's feet don't bleed ect) but altering history so modern audiences can feel just a bit more comfortable just makes me uneasy. They really should've just left the Pocahontas story alone.
Honestly, they did Zoey so dirty in that episode that I gave up on the entire series. They NEVER had an issue with her because she was white in the OG series, and if they really wanted to portray a real world interaction then they should've had her rip them to shreds and stop speaking to them. That being said, why did Maya's opinion even matter? She's been around for two seconds...but then I remember how it was with LaCienega when she first came around so I'm not shocked.
Loved the autism episode, they did an amazing job, but this...no. Just no.
Yes, the autism episode was my favorite too, as I’m an autistic and ADD teenager myself along with a sibling the same conditions as me plus dyslexia, but colourism episode along with the one where the other one where Maya (or whoever else) said “black people cant be racist”, as I’m black myself and got criticized by OTHER black people for saying that indeed they CAN be racist, they were just a big no-no for me.
Well, there was, like, one episode in the og series where it was a whole deal that she was white, but that doesn't really count because it was literally the black history month episode where they time travel back to the 60's
@@afoolishfopdoodle3284 okay THAT was acceptable and a good episode, but this was a complete mess. And the fact that they made her basically come back on her knees and apologize in the end just...ugh. She should've broken up with him and never spoke to the group again tbh
I’m not a black person, but Moon Girls started a lot of great conversation with my 8 year old nephew (who is white and Native American) about racism that I wasn’t sure how to have with him, explaining the importance of black hair, gentrification, and strikes/protesting with Moon Girl being the example really helped him understand it, of course he doesn’t fully understand it because he’s a kid and I didn’t explain everything about them, but it was the beginning of helping him understand and hopefully pushing towards a more respectful and understanding person.
I thought it was weird that they were upset at Zoe instead of the guy. It's like blaming the victim or if their boyfriends cheated on them, and going after/fighting the girl instead of breaking up with the guy. It was VERY poorly written.
Yeah, good friends would be worried about Noah hurting Zoey's feelings: she is a shy girl who hasn't dated anyone, and realizing that that handsome boy chose her only because of her skin color would certainly crush her. So, the episode should have been about Penny and gang trying to warn Zoey about Noah for her own sake, instead of raging at her and making her apologize for nothing.
another cartoon that does the topic of black hair really well is central park. Molly, a biracial black girl who is an illustror of her own comic, uses her hair themed super hero fista puffs to work our her own feelings about the complexities of having textured hair. Her friends have invited her to go swimming and then to the movies, but she can't go straight from swimming to the movies. it was a really good episode where she struggles with the idea of of "would things be better is I had straight hair instead"
I could have used an episode like that a decade ago!
I know right ✅ I loved that episode
Question. Why couldn't she? Im genuinely curious. As a guy with big naturally curly hair, the most I can think of is that it just wouldn't look great as it's hard to fix but it's a dark theater anyway so..... yeah I just don't know what the problem is if isn't like an appearances thing
@tripleg2513 Im not black nor do I have natural hair so this is just a guess, but thick curly hair takes longer to dry. plus, with chlorine and othe pool chemicals, textured hair needs to be properly washed and treated afterward to prevent breakage and other damage. so letting it air dry could cause more more damage then washing it and treating it.
@@tripleg2513 I can try to explain being a black female. So for the women who prefer to wear there hair straight instead of natural, they'll avoid any activity that involve bodies of water because exposure to it will make our hair revert back to it's fluffy thick state. While some girls who wear there hair natural won't mind this, ones who wear it straight will become gravely uncomfortable being seen that way. That and it ends up becoming more work to get it back straight again. So they'll just avoid water in public.
Edit: also you guys are correct about pool chemicals such as chlorine and stuff killing our hair.
I think a key point is that Moon Girl uses a basic thing, "Feeling insecure about your body." WHich anyone can relate too and use that to have her mom explain how she should be proud of her black heritage.
While Louder and Prouder only used it to have Zoey's 'friends' crap all over her when she was picked over them, treating it like she did anything wrong except except a handsome boy asking her out.
When I was in public school I was the Latina girl that was consistently picked on by a bunch of black kids. I was always told I was too ugly and nerdy, and no guy ever asked me out. Seeing the way Zoe was treated just gave me vivid flashbacks to my school days in the absolute worst ways possible. Zoe is not a conventionally attractive girl and seeing her friends turn on her and insult her so personally just made me think of how often I'd go home and not want to wake up. That episode is messed up and killed every single ounce of me wanting to see L&P.
Sorry bro, i hope things get better you for. You did not deserve to be treated like that.
The show was wrong and those kids were wrong. There is a conversation to be had about colorism and the fetishization of lighter skinned women, but that show handled it poorly. You are fine, you deserve love too.
Latina isn't a race, you could be a quarter black or half native. Go take your box built self outta here.
@@bruhvibes5941 that's not the point moron.
I think it would have been more interesting if in the proud family episode, Zoey happen to mention what her friends said to her and Noah actually confronting them saying it wasn't true. And when Maya brings up her cousin, he says something along the lines of that they're a gossip and you can't trust anything they say.
This episode was all over the place I couldn't understand what was going on truthfully I don't see a problem with someone having anesthetic preference this includes ethnicity I see it no different than gender preference or sexuality if anything the episode showed how the idea of colorism is stupid which like I said I don't see the negativity of it especially when the target audience is young immature children becoming adults because their aesthetic preferences will change a lot more than sexuality but that can also change over time the only thing that seems to make it negative is only when the person is attracted to white because you never going to see the opposite unless it's a white person being attracted to Asian people but that's something different it's not colorism it's something about race fetishism I don't know if that's the correct term but it seems to be accurate to what they suggest but again I don't see a problem with any of this as long as you treat your partners and the people around you no matter ethnicity culture gender with respect cuz really just like the girls it just seems to insinuate let the real negativity in the situation comes from people feeling unwanted because other people have preferences and that's a very disturbing concept to try to normalize basically by gaslighting the person who has a preference but they didn't even go after the person who had the preference which was Noah they went after Zoe and that's because likely Noah is a person of color Zoe's white so of course they're going to go after her I'm just dreading the idea that they try to tackle something like Reverse Racism cuz that's not a thing it's just being bigoted and awful to people who are white just because they're white and thinking you have the justification because of things that happened in the past or things happening now that this white person did not do
@@lilyrose1581 please learn punctuation, that brick of text is hard to read
Maya made the situation even worse turning everyone against Zoey.
This would have been way better. Only problem is this puts Maya in a situation where she's **GASP** in the wrong, something the show is deathly allergic to... she has to ALWAYS be in the right, no matter what asinine shit comes out her mouth.
@@artemis3306 How was that hard to read. This is TH-cam, not English class
I really appreciate the “Hair Today Gone Tomorrow” episode from Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur because growing up I was told as a black woman that nappy hair was bad hair, but as I got older I realized that nappy hair is good hair and learn to love and appreciate my nappy hair.
As for the episode “End of Innocence” from Proud Family: Louder and Prouder, this is worst episode of the second season. I hated how Penny’s friends treated Zoey and uninvited her to the princess party. They were jealous that a boy who’s attractive asked Zoey out and not them. Zoey deserved better in that episode.
Also why was it called "End of Innocence"? Did they stop dressing up as princesses or what?
@@imthebossmermaid3648 I don’t even know, but that’s a good question.
@@CreativeNia Just proof that the episode is lousy crap and badly done.
@@imthebossmermaid3648 Yep, but the main issue I have with the episode was how Penny’s friends act very toxic towards Zoey because Noah asked her out and not them. I get what episode is trying to go for when discussing about colorism, but this episode was written poorly.
@@CreativeNia Yeah.
yeah the moon girl episode sounds really good not only does moon girl get a new villian, but it also educates people people on the the fact that black hair is naturally curvy which I can guarantee is not known by the average person
How would the average person not know that? Curly hair is pretty much a defining trait of black people to the point it was subject of mockery among other things, that's like saying Asian eyes aren't natural.
To be clear I'm not saying you're bullshitting, I just find it weird if it's really the case cause I never heard anyone claim curly hair aren't natural for black people before.
@@ginogatash4030 there are black people with curly hair and those with straight how are unculutred people soppose to know that black people only have straight hair because they straightn it
I guarantee everyone knows black people have curly hair lol
@@ginogatash4030 You're more likely to meet someone who thinks that non-black people having textured hair is unnatural. My hair is wavy/curly and multiple times I've had ignorant people (usually other white people) tell me that my hair isn't natural because "white people don't have curly hair". 😵💫
@@ginogatash4030 Well as someone who didn't fully understand the differences between white and black hair, i can theorize a few reasons.
1. Curly hair is hardly unique to black people. I live in Scotland. Curly red hair is pretty common here. Since no one can meet every single person of another race, and since many of us are taught not to stereotype, they'd be less likely to think, all black people have curly hair, than, black people I know have curly hair.
2. Not all black people wear their hair curly, some straighten it, some shave it, some wear it in dreadlocks or plaits. Women in particular can be penalized in professional environments for not straightening their hair when the dress codes are based on white people. There's actually been a big push back lately against forcing black women to hide their natural hair.
3. A lot of people really just don't pay that much attention to hair.
4. There's a difference between knowing that black people have curly hair, and understanding that it's an entirely different texture with different hair care needs. This is a particular problem for black children who have white parents, who'll try and treat the child's hair the way they treat theirs, not truly understanding the difference
I think part of the reason that people are so sensitive when they see these "political" messages in shows, especially children's show, is because a number of times they are just simultaneously promoting bigotry to someone else or making the issue black and white with a villain when realistically there isn't one. Like in the Proud family episode, it wasn't about having a conversation around an issue but villainizing someone who had a preference that wasn't them(jealousy and hypocrisy cause I don't see them chastising him if he only like black girls), trying to make Zoey feel like she was only liked for the color of her skin and nothing else when they don't even know the guy or why he likes her and making her apologize for something she didn't even do wrong. While in the Moongirl and DD episode(from how you describe it), seemed to have their episode structured more around the conversation and not about demonizing or demeaning other people over immutable characteristics or just plain unjustly or overblown. I mean tou can have a message without contributing to the thing you say is a problem and are trying to condemn
@Kristopher Prime What is even worse Kristopher is that you can find a video of a black woman on youtube that shuts down all the false claims that slaves built America according to Penny and her out of touch friends.
Search up Debunking the Proud Family's False Claims and you'll find the one
Maybe it’s just me, but anyone else find it a little ironic that the episode talking about colorism involves two girls ignoring their dark skinned boyfriend in order to gush over a light skin?
That was my problem with the proud family episode. It didn’t really feel like it was discussing about colorism but instead villainizing it and felt like it was an excuse to show how toxic of a friend group Penny’s friends are.
If they want to talk about someone having a racial preference then they should have had the girls talk to other people about the celebrity’s preference and ask him themselves and see if it’s true, and if it is they should build a conversation around it such as discussing why he preferred white girls and if he likes them more than just being a different race.
Because there are people out there who do have a preference when dating someone but can also still love them for who they are, they just happen to have a preference. And I think they should have discussed it instead of villainizing it.
Not to mention that the person they villainized was the wrong person, and it felt more like because the girls were rejected by a hot celebrity because he chose someone in their friend group who isn’t as good looking as them, just feels like they were mad at Zoey out of jealousy and hypocrisy, and use colorism as an excuse. Especially when both Penny and Dijonay have boyfriends that they were constantly ignoring, Maya having two interracial dads, and Myron being black and liking Zoey.
Plus I mean like Michael.....you're a dude lol. Like how the heck is he upset he got rejected XD? Being a gay dude I'm not going to just go postal on any straight guy I throw myself at that rejects me lol. Plus like yeah, Maya of all people should have been the most tolerate considering her fathers but like....whatever. The show never really thinks these things through.
@@krismarshall3803 Yeah so it frustrated me that Zoey is the one that has to apologize, even though her friend group were the ones who tried to talk crap about her behind her back, tried to uninvited her and ghost her to the princess party, treated her like a villain, with one of them out right saying that “Has any guy ever liked you”, and barely tried to get actual evidence if the guy is into white girls or go more into his character, and were just overall being petty and selfish.
Except racial preferences or to better put it racial exclusion don’t make sense. Not all black girl look the same, have the same culture, act that same speak the same etc etc. How can we all agree that if someone said “I don’t make friends with black people” we can understand how absurd and ridiculous bc race doesn’t effect how good a friend is but if someone refuses to even view black women as dating partners we normalize that? As if being a black women effects what kind of partner you are. If they asked the famous boy why he doesn’t take women of color we could’ve broken that down.
Dating preferences that label every single black women or Asian or Hispanic or white women as undateable based solely (ignoring things like shared culture and language preferences) is fucked up. I don’t know how y’all convinced yourselves that this is normal and shouldn’t be looked down upon.
Fetishizing and stereotyping anyone is evil end of story it
@@hhh1234hit's really not that bad. It's basically the same as hair color preference. It's not like the person hates that race, just that they're not as physically attracted to someone of x race. It's really not something that can be helped as it's just kind of a natural thing in people's brains to be attracted to certain things. Like some guys are attracted to shorter girls and others to tall. There's no big reason behind it, they just are. This applies to most everything.
It's not the end all be all of course but it's not evil or anything. People are allowed to have personal preferences. So what if it doesn't make logical sense. Physical attractions rarely do.
@@hhh1234h but it's fine if we exclude height
3:34 The Proud Family reboot really loves retconning itself, doesn't it? Didn't Duke ask Zoey out to a dance? I remember them being a couple in the OG series.
I think he did. They also seem to forget that Penny turned 16 in the Proud Family movie.
This may sound odd but I don’t believe Noah asked zoe out just because she was white. Even if it’s stated in the show, it was just unbelievable. The only proof we got was Noah seeing zoe in the first half, and him being with a white girl at the end.
We weren’t given any indication any of this was true, only Maya’s word and literally the first episode of her appearance was her making false judgements about what someone wants and likes (the panda) why is the world would we trust her word on the matter? We have no reason too.
This video made me realize something, I was with the majority of people saying that zoe should have called them out and how the group should have been held accountable and apologized. But now I realize that isn’t the solution I want.
The solution I believe could have saved this episode was making Noah more of a character, giving signs he’s only into white girls and having Maya not saying her cousin said he was into white girls but Maya seeing it first hand.
Have Zoe actually see the signs being with him and have her get the blinders off.
Or simply have the group be wrong and realize they were wrong and apologize.
Noah is the big point of the colorism plot and they just used him as a towel to throw in a message that wasn’t even crossed well because everyone just tied it down to jealousy. Even I believed it. If only they utilized Noah to actually showcase he was only into white girls or just have him be a decent guy for zoe and show a lesson about jealousy. Either way it could have been handled way better this way.
One last thing, the fact that they made Zoe go with Myrion at the end, who has been said to be the unconventionally unattractive, nerd, comic relief…is so insulting. They just proved that Zoe can only be with someone who’s nerdy and settle. If they really wanna be modern show that even attractive guys can like a girl for their brain and the group should just accept it and not everything is about race.
The thing is, is it wrong for him to be into white girls more, or only into black girls?
The main problem would be if he is with someone BECAUSE they are whatever skin color!
Proud Family (reboot): "black people can't be racist!"
Proud Family (original): *is colorist and depicts the non-black characters of color as racist stereotypes*
This episode just felt very bitter to me, to the point where it feels like the overall lesson that's meant to be taught is overshadowed by how awful they are to Zoey. I was legitimately shocked that this was how they chose to go about it and the fact that in the end, only Zoey was the only person apologizing.
No, they actually all apologized to her at the end
@@Unknown_individual_561 oh, my bad, Zoey just had to dump the guy and apologize first.
They could have easily also played the card where Noah emphasizes he wanted to go on a date with a girl who he considers "normal" which could have easily been someone who is low key and not a fanatic, and probably just someone who embodies a typical high school girl. Plus its been done to death that the friend group constantly prods fun of Zoey for being a nerd, not conventionally pretty and being too tall. He could be into that. He completely bypasses the group of screaming fan girls and boys, for the one girl in the back who's just enjoying her lunch. She even was suspicious of him in the first place. And he's not even offended when she calls him Borat and grabs his face. He's a bit surprised and smiled and laughed at it. She wasn't treating him like a celebrity like everyone else, she saw him as some rando schoolmate who was asking her out and playing a trick on her, aka she treated him like a "Normal Guy", which was what he was saying in the beginning, experiencing normal high school life. The rumor could easily just been the product of the community and people he hangs out with on and off set and which could have been predominately white so therefore that was his pool of choices. Zoey definitely didn't deserve that treatment and that insecurity. She had nothing to apologize for. The girl has enough insecurities that are people pick on enough. The fact she had to confirm if that was reason why Myron found her attractive, broke my heart. She already has low self esteem and feels like she isn't desirable for her other traits, and now she has this racial component too. I was so mad at the episode and everyone in the friend group. Zoey is a darling, and has such a good heart and smart and so loveable in so many ways, but she always gets the short end of the stick. She had nothing to apologize for. Plus what are they gonna do in the future? She hangs out in a predominately black and brown social group. The likelihood of her being asked out by a black or brown guy again is probable too.
This! If the guy was so shallow, why would he go past all those pretty white girls screaming for his attention only to talk to Zoey, who didn't know who he was and wasn't instantly head over heels for him? Why the effort?
Also, yes, how did the writers expect Zoey to act? Ask Penny, LaCienega, and Maya permission to date a black dude? Ask every dark-skinned guy interested in her, "Is it because I'm white?" or reject every dark-skinned guy showing interest in her just to be safe and date white guys only? Like, really, what is Zoey supposed to do?
This episode could be fixed if:
- Noah wasn't the bad guy. He genuinely liked Zoey, and probably was a secret nerd too, so they had a lot in common and enjoyed spending time together.
- The issue of toxic fan community was addressed: his fangirls were SO not okay with their heartthrob having a personal life that they instantly started attacking Zoey online and spreading nasty rumors, much to her stress. Alternatively, Noah haters would spread rumors about Noah dating only white girls, making Penny and Co nervous about Noah's intentions regarding Zoey.
- Penny and Co tried to convince Zoey to break up with Noah, so people would stop antagonizing her, only to realize that they gave in to peer pressure and feel ashamed about believing that no one would date Zoey without an ulterior motive or that she must give up her happiness because of a bunch of salty internet users.
- The issue of being a teen celebrity was addressed: maybe after the kids' misguided attempt to help Zoey backfires, leaving her hurt, Noah gives them an earful expressing how his work basically denies him all normal friendships or relationships, how stressful it's to keep up appearances and be exposed 24/7, how short-lived his celebrity success may be and how the uncertainty of his own future scares him. He values being with Zoe so much because she accepts him for who he is and not his celebrity status (they can stay inside all day eating snacks, wearing baggy clothing, and playing video games without her trying to post his every breath on Instagram), and it makes him feel that he has a future even after his acting career is over. He says how happy he was for Zoey to have friends to support her and how mad he is to see that Zoey's friends would rather bring her down than help her ("She spoke so much about you, how great y'all are. If you ask me, I'd say she deserves better")).
- Penny and Co learn their lesson, apologize to Zoey and choose to stand with her and her right to happiness instead of letting toxic fans win.
- Noah stayed with Zoey.
Both of these comments are why I don't like reading comments because these sound like genuinely amazing ideas that I would love to see in an episode 😭
Makes me sad that it's not reality, instead we're just left with this steaming pile of glorified toxicity and stereotypes.
I hate Hate HATED the fact that they never EXPLAINED why colorism is wrong. They tried to show what colorism can do without showing us what it can do, then bullying Zoe the whole episode didn't help at all they literally could have saved the episode in some type of way when Dijonay was like "see zoe you just don't get it" and could have expanded but nope lets all walk away from it. What makes it worse is that the only person being decent in the episode is penny yet Zoe chose to direct her hate mainly towards penny for sticking around and trying to understand/explain. I couldn't help but keep yelling "COMMUNICATION" at the screen. They might as well have put tape over penny's mouth because whenever it seemed like she was gonna explain or try and talk it out with Zoe she was shut down.
I agree. The proud family episode just pissed me off. The whole time, I'm just like "why and how are you all friends!?"
From what little knowledge I remember, Lacienga is mainly friends with Penny since both their parents hang out with each other and that can only mean it's more of an association than friendship.
Zoey I guess is fine with hanging out with them having found some sort of friend group to connect with but I cant understand Dijionay
Being insecure about your hair is a universal concept that tons of people of all races and genders can experience. So with Moon Girl, it’s pretty easy to relate to her even if the specific circumstances and background is different.
By constrast colorism and racism is a more specific and complicated issue.
The scene with the arrows piercing through Lunella when she was insulted really hit me cause sometimes that’s really how it feels when something you weren’t ashamed of suddenly gets insulted or called out.
I love Moongirl and the hair episode was so sweet and well done. As a white girl with curly hair, growing up it wasn't entirely easy to understand how to deal with my hair. I didn't know what sort of products to use, how to style it. Especially in the 00s and early 10s, it was just sort of expected that I would spend a huge amount of time straightening it. And as a kid, people were oddly critical of my curly hair.
Black women and girls have it even worse. Lunella's mom was freaking out over relaxer partially because it has been linked to cancer, as well as disfiguring burning.
It's sad because I went to a very mixed school, and this was kinda common. A group of friends singling out and ditching a innocent white friend for something utterly unrelated is pretty common.
A boy they all like but asks the white girl out, it's taken out on her. Wins a contest, taken out on her. Doesn't get in trouble, taken out on her. Now I'm sure sometimes it can be legit racism, but because someone else is racist doesn't mean you bully your friend.
And this isn't just a mix group only thing, pretty much all friend groups will have problems like this. Race is just a easy one to latch onto. I've seen it happen in queer groups, in women groups with the one guy friend, if jhock bro groups with the one nerd, ect. when people are upset or jealous (especially teens) as a group they'll grab at straws to find a reason to blame that person, for whatever reason. I think the proud family handled it wrong by being like "see, you're probably right in the end so it's fine to bully.".
Honestly, that’s my justification for whenever Zoey is mean to Penny in the original.
The other two girls were just straight up bullies, and Zoey knew that if they weren’t picking on penny, they would pick on her.
when i was in school i was the only girl in an all male friend group, and i got similar treatment from time to time.
I’m really glad Moon Girl is getting a lot of positive attention! Lunella Lafayette has been one of my favorite characters in the Marvel comics for some time & this series is a great introduction to the character for younger fans. I feel like the Louder & Prouder episode, on top of tackling colorism clumsily, was a disservice to Penny as a character because it made her act mean in a way she normally wouldn’t. Whenever I watched the old show as a kid I remember thinking Zoey was Penny’s only real friend, because Dijonay was a toxic friend & La Cienega was just a bully straight up.
Also a great thing about the moon girl episode is that you don’t specifically have to interpret the episode about being about black issues. It’s a completely fine episode if you just see it as an episode about liking yourself or your hair for what it is, and a deeper meaning of racial issues under a average moral. It’s neat
But Black hair really is discriminated against...it's called texturism. It's okay to admit that a show tackles anti-Blackness, really. It's okay if some things are political, really, I swear, it is!
@@imthebossmermaid3648 Maybe OP expressed themselves not too clearly, I think they meant that there is also an applicability to the message for other people also get "different hair". I got a friend who is not a POC but has natural curly hair because of his Asperger, and as a result he also dealt with texturism issues at schools where they forced him to straighten it up, only being able to finally sport his natural hair at college. I agree that the episode is more specifically taking it to the black experience, but it certainly has applicability to hair as a whole.
You knows what's funny, I actually watched another analysis video on a original proud family episode today. The one where twins Bebe and Cece turn into teens. All of Penny's friends turn on her and are genuinely very mean for no reason but for plot. The youtuber in that video shared how it doesn't matter if they all learn a lesson in the end, her friends are straight up toxic. It seems the current writers still write toxic friend moments.
The only problem with that was the whole episode was based on a fantasy and Al Roker, who granted the wish, always puts a price on them which was Penny GOT older twins but the twins got the attention, especially when you remember that Penny only wanted them older for her own benefit. The whole episode is more or less a monkey paw wish episode where the person who wants the wish regrets it. Roker more or less switched up the entire world to teach Penny a lesson.
The episode with Zoe is trying to make a 'real world statement' and just bungles it and what makes it worse is that what we see from Penny and her friends isn't the effect of some spell or wish; that's just how they were written to explain the 'moral'.
Ppl have been talking about how toxic her friends were forever now, but the writers STILL didn't try to write them less asshole-ish.
I hated that episode! I felt so bad for Penny and I was wondering why her friends are so horrible
I really didn't understand why everyone had to be automatically mean to Penny just because her siblings were popular. Wouldn't it be more realistic that Penny was suddenly more popular by association?
"Has any other boy ever asked you out to a dance?"
Girl...in that scene, she cuter then all of you combined...
FINALLY!! I knew I wasn’t the only one who honestly felt bad for Zoey in that episode. I knew penny always had horrible friends, but the episode just rubbed me the wrong way
Because you are white
The problem with the proud family WAS I thought in the original, a man writing teenage girls. Penny's friends were always terrible and would ditch her for parties or boys. Use her in some way or talk down to her.
Yes teenage girls can be fickle but you find that they may fight but in the end apologize and become friends again. They support eachother. Or, you know, ACT LIKE FRIENDS.
After seeing this episode talked about everywhere I swear it was the original creator still writing his mean girls and him not knowing how to portray what he's trying to.
I do prefer old shows, for example, that's so raven. When people say political I guess some DO mean anything pertaining to gender, race or inclusion. I think a lot of people mean it doesn't feel natural. In that's so raven she has a vision that a woman won't hire raven, telling Chelsea "I don't hire black people"
The set up for it and execution were actually believable. Likely from one of the writer's own actual experience. Chelsea and Raven communicate like real friends. The boss wasn't a big caricature. In fact she leans in and quietly says this line to Chelsea. A good representation of what these people are like. Never been so floored as when I've had older people come off with some racist or homophobic. Whispering like we're in a secret little club. Then they regret it when you come down on them with a good wtf and pointing out their BS.
It felt like that.
Then we have a writer making a bad episode and trying unsuccessfully to make it about colorism. The boy clearly just liking Zoe and the girls making fun of her. It was a whole episode to just make fun of her. Try to interject colorism into the episode.
It could have been about the girls being jealous and ignoring her. The writers just made the girls look stupid. They could have changed the situation to 'new boy picks Zoe out when he has to choose betwe the friend group
Penny really, REALLY needs a better circle of friends
So does Zoey in this case
The writers of PF do not care to write female friendships in a flesh out, believable or even interesting way, they just make them fight for a Jersey Shore level drama and them have them “resolve it” by just saying “uuuh I love you gurl” and call it a day just to do it all over again the next episode, I enjoy any other dynamic in the show , like the family and the romances , then the “friendship”
They're not even trying to be subtle with Proud Family, good lord. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like they're using Zoey as a punching bag.
I'm white so I don't have much room to speak on the issue, but I'd like to share my thoughts any way let me know if I'm off base at all or if I missed something.
The Proud family friend cercal has always been a mess of mean girls hanging together because no one else will put up with them, so I'm not shocked they mishandled the issue of colorism, as for the moon girl episode, it made me instantly think of the book Hair Love, the message felt similar and uplifting. If you haven't had a chance to look at this book and have kids or just want to read a sweet story of self-acceptance, I highly recommend it.
HAIR LOVEEEE
WOOOOOOOO
As the awkward, geeky, glasses-wearing white girl who never got asked out to any dances growing up, the way Zoey was treated here utterly broke me. I couldn't watch the Proud Family anymore after this episode. It brings back too many bad memories of being bullied by people who pretended to be my friends, too.
Seriously i like the Proud Family but the recent episodes is just making the already flinsy in the original series "friends" group worse
Thats true and so pity to watch that.
As an outsider I don't understand how fans watch it while also constantly ranting about how it handles social commentary poorly, or how badly the friend group is written, like I get being able to criticise stuff you like is good, but these seem like pretty deal breaking issues to me, so what's the appeal of the show to you?
@@ginogatash4030Yeah I dunno either and I've tried to watch clips of it but more controversy arises
@@ginogatash4030 is tha we liked the original show and some of us want to like it others just keep watching out of curiosty
@@geardestroy yeah but what did you like about it? There must've been some good things in it like comedy or something I assume.
I do not like the Proud Family because these kids are genuinely toxic towards each other. Your proposed changes are solid and humble.
Even in the original proud family show I never understood why they kept trying to portray Penny having such shitty friends as a good thing. Zoey is pretty much the only one that is usually nice to Penny but she always got the short end of the stick due to being white even in the original and I think that's a terrible message to send to kids. That you can only be friends with people who are the same ethnicity as you even if they are cruel and mean and constantly belittle you. LaCienega being the worst with Dijonay being a close second in the "most awful portrayal of friendship award". That show could have tried to change the narrative and teach kids that you can be friends with anyone no matter what they look like but no! Instead they had to go and make it super racist and then try and gaslight the audience that it isn't racist.
Zoey wasn't friends with them because she is white. She is friends with them because she is not conventionally attractive and is a follower. The girls don't even really seem to like her. So essentially, the lesson here is that the only white girls who will hang out with black people are "leftovers" who can't have white friends.
I think really the only somewhat decent Friends Penny had in the show were Zoey, Sticky, and depending on writer, Michael.
@@KhaosAdmiral It's like what Zora Neale Hurston said, "All skin folk ain't kin folk". The context did refer to the black people were/are white supremacists, but this metaphor works for any instance when people of the same skin color do not get along well.
all it does is instill white guilt into kids imo
I am POC and I literally didn't understand why they were being so negative towards Zoey, like the idea that she has to apologize that someone is dating her because she's white is really stupid. The literal stupidest argument to get mad at someone for something they can't control??? Isn't that the whole argument of acceptance too?? How you gonna hate someone for not having control over the pigment of their skin, and the fact that someone is exclusively attracted to that feature of yours. Proud Family failed the colorism narrative in my opinion. Made the writers and Bruce himself look mad prejudiced.
Because of one thing; she's White.
That's it.
And yes, it's shitty but so is the writing of the reboot and I KNEW, I KNEW they were going to take any chance to lambast Zoe which is hilarious because even the OG show treated her better.
Unfortunately, Proud Family's mean girl nature got in the way of the message they were trying to tell. The whole mean girl thing was the reason I stop watching the original series. I came back to it when the new episodes came, out and was still like, "man why you so mean." There is not a single kind soul on that show. Also may I point out that two of the girls that were mad about all this had boyfriend already. It just made me upset of the guys, they were right there. And there girlfriends were all ready to leave them for this guy. I feel like that muddy the message, along with the jealousy.
I'm white, but I actually enjoy hearing about racial issues. That is as long as the background message isn't antagonistic. Shaming your audience, the people who choose to listen to you (and it is a choice), is a good way to lose them. This isn't just about race. It's about anything.
When TPF reboot was announced, I was skeptical because I had a feeling they were going to turn what essentially is Boondocks for kids and try to make it more 'socially aware' even though the original was *VERY* socially aware already.
The problem is everyone wants to make a statement but in the end it feels like no one knows what the fuck they're talking about but they just so much want to feel like they're atop some pedestal and 'starting conversations' but in reality, a lot are just showing their biases. The issues with Zoe, the White fragility stuff, its all lame. This wasn't what The Proud Family was about because even WITH the topics that it talked about in the original, it was still a goofy ass cartoon but to some what made it different and why they felt the show HAS to have a message every time is because the characters in this goofy ass cartoon just so happen to be BLACK and it's a pitfall so many people fall into when making Black characters in general.
It always comes back to the idea that Black characters and stories *HAVE* to be heavily political or they *HAVE* to always talk about 'Black issues' or that they *HAVE* to look a certain way and give off a certain tone. That LOCKS the possibilities of what a cartoon made by Black creators can be because there are certain weird expectations set up that some people put on it, as if a cartoon made by Black creators *HAVE* to be a certain way or else 'It's not Black'. I've said before to a friend of mine about all these things popping up in animation that 'White cartoons' can be whatever they want but the expectations for 'the others' is that it has to have some sort of statement and have political/social elements within it. There is no freedom of fun within that and what gets even more frustrating is that AFTER all these sort of 'rules' are made up, the same people then whine about what 'Black cartoons aren't fun'.
BECAUSE YOU FUCKING TOLD US THAT NOT BEING WHATEVER EXPECTATIONS YOU PUT UP WASN'T BLACK!
Louder and Prouder is trying way too hard to fill the shoes of the original and thinks the only way to do that is by even more political and socially aware than the show that was already politically and socially aware but knew its audience would be bored as shit if that's what all it were which is why we have a basketball player owning a town or a REAL LIFE weather man who's a wish granting eldritch god. That fun seems to be done from Louder and Proud but I have a feeling that the main writers of the show, not including Smith himself, don't want that 'fun'. They want that 'message' since it makes *THEM* (the writers) feel smart but when the best you can do is trying to shame the nerdy White KID because of a choice the asshole who was leading her on made? It almost feels like victim shaming and I use that term very, VERY loosely but I doubt that crossed the minds of the writers since their only concern was to punish Zoe for the crime of being White and a Black boy being into that, even if he was lead on by the wrong horny but instead of bringing it up that HE was using HER, it's HER fault because he prefers White chicks.
Yeah, fuck off with that shit. Make it all the more louder (HA) you want to push your issues on people not even involved with it, writers.
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed this. Most media that happen to feature black people is always negative, even when it’s for kids. It makes me feel bad about myself, not pride. It seems even in fiction we can’t escape racism. We already live through it in the real world.
I aspire to write for both kids books and television and I’m afraid I’ll get stigmatized to fit a certain diversity quota, like for example, book publishers rejecting my light-hearted work and suggest I tackle police brutality or racism because I’m black, also my characters. Idk if I explained it right but a great example of what you said is of that goddamn 2022 Cheaper by the Dozen movie.
The problem isn't exactly the politics. The problem is that all of the characters are mean AF
This comment needs more likes. It's OK to make fun, lighthearted stuff, regardless of race, sexuality, etc. But it seems like nobody wants to do that these days. It's all about sending a message, even if it makes no sense or is actually harmful towards a certain group.
Yep. The irony is they brought Al Roker back...for a grand total of one episode before chucking him into the void. Also, this is the show that wants us to take it seriously. This show. With the aforementioned Al, music piracy being portrayed like THE WORST THING EVER, Sista Spice, Puff and the guy formerly known as Wizard Kelly...see the problem here?!
What I would have changed about the Proud Family episode was similar to what you said, but also add more focus into the why when it is revealed that he is only interested in white girls. I feel the why is an important aspect that shouldn't be overlooked, as if it's a preference of his, then it's not something he should be demonized for, but if it's a fetish/stereotype, then it needs to be addressed and SHOW the audience the difference between the two. I'd also add Maya's parents into the mix as they have the best viewpoint for interracial relationships and could have been a legit voice of reason in this episode.
5:34 yeah, thank you for bringing this up because it was also bothering me, if noah is supposed to be this super good looking, famous movie star and even if it's colorism why would his first choice be zoey when she's not considered the most conventionally attractive (her awful friends even just basically called her ugly which, wow, does this show actively not realize how truly horrid these friends are). additionally, another way you can make the plot work is that you can have the friends believe noah only dates white girls but instead of them immediately turning on zoey, it's that zoey is over gushing on how amazing noah is/how lucky she is (not knowing the true reason why) and while the friends try to be supportive of zoey deep down the lines hurt them personally, something a bit more tactful of the issue.
I haven’t seen too much of either show, but I really adore Moon Girl so far, more than Louder and Prouder for reasons other than how they address social/political issues. Like, I’m sick and tired of the main friend group in Louder and Prouder. Why are any of them friends, when they seem to mostly hate each other? There’s no kindness and love, just hatred and struggle. In Moon Girl, Lunella and Casey seem to actually enjoy each other’s company and feel like they actually have each other’s backs and you know, WON’T sabotage each other out of petty jealousy the second one of them has something really good happen to them?
Great video. Exactly what I was thinking, the Proud Family has always seemed to struggle with writing how some specific issues are and should be handled. Seeing Moon Girl do something relatable like this with great messaging is a breath of fresh air.
While I'm Latina from a heavily mixed family, I only saw clips of Moon Girl (it's the first time I hear about that show) and instantly felt a connection/understanding with the topic of beauty/hairstyles and was instantly interested.
Proud Family USED to be relatable when it would drop the silly fun comedy for more serious topics, but now it just spiteful and rather questionable, and maybe even racist at times (at least in my eyes, but I've been told I'm wrong and... privileged (somehow)) despite me supposedly needing to connect to the show through LaCienega (supposedly, she's become such a VERY stereotypical Latina character). I've always been criticized for my hair (which is a wild mix of wavy, soft, feathery, yet curly all at once😬) by family, family friends, adults, classmates, and so on, so that topic hit home real quick. I damaged my hair which took YEARS to repair trying to straighten it out. Whenever I'd go get my hair cut, the hairstylists always commented how burned and damaged my hair was, and I'd explain I was trying really hard to straighten it out because I was being bullied for it. It took my best friend (now husband of 10+ years) complimenting me on how much he liked my hair as it was for me to start growing some semblance of comfort and self-esteem. THAT felt relatable from what I saw in those clips. I never thought I'd see the day where I'd start disliking a continuation of one of my favorite shows growing up. It's sad.
I'm mixed Latina too (got black and Asian family as well). I'm sorry you went through that situation with your hair. Seems like these sort of situations happens a lot to non-white girls.
The kids in my school would often tug my hair and would just generally touch it without my consent. And they would still do it even when I would politely tell them to stop. The only thing that would get them to stop was yelling and telling them off and I hated doing that but at least it made them stop.
My mother had a lot of internalized racism too and would straighten my hair even though I hated how harsh the products would smell and feel.
I'm glad you're now able to love your hair now and have people in your life that care for and support you.
I'm also glad a lot of young black girls now have things like Hair Love or Moongirl too so they can feel okay with having the type of hair they have now.
I don't really agree with you about The Proud Family though. I felt even the OG show was very mean spirited and still had quite a bit of negative racial stereotypes in it, so I didn't watch it often growing up because of that.
There's lots of episodes of the original series that just has the group turn on each other or straight up abandon their friends during their time of need. Time and time again. It honestly doesn't surprise me to hear they behaved this way again in this newer episode because they've been frequently backstabbing each other even in the original. Same characters, same writing staff, same results basically.
@@mjangelvortex Oh no I'm sorry that happened to you as well! Man, some people really do sometimes forget personal boundaries, huh...?
My mom would tell me to not do so much to my hair because I was damaging it, but it was the family member that we lived with that would constantly point out how... "much of a mess" I looked like with my hair. It was so great for my self-esteem! There's a reason I completely cut off communication with them now as an adult.
Oh well yeah, true. I don't deny the old show wasn't without it's problems, I do remember watching some of them and kinda wincing at them... I really didn't like how a lot of the group treated each other, they'd start improving one episode then again the next back to square one. Out of the group, I think Zoe was the least terrible, but even then. When I look back at the show now, since I know English even better now, and have life experience, it did have a lot of flaws. I guess the innocence and naivety of being a kid/teen really does affect things. It's sad really, the show could have truly been much more.
Watching this episode, I was expecting it to end with the reveal that he went to Zoe because she was tall, or any of the other reasons you listed. And I think part of the reason I expected that is because the girls were so clearly being unreasonable, the writers must have intended for them to be wrong. Having them be right in the end undercuts the character arc they should have had.
Maya reacting like that while having 2 interracial dads was the epítome of hipocrisy
Maya is the worst to me. Like, miss, your dads are an interracial couple. You come from a relatively wealthy family. Your white father is respected detective and your black father is a successful banker. It is good to care about issues, it is good to have your voice and be proactive, but fuck, gain some perspective!
Girl power! Kick a friend outta her friend group because of the problem guy they wanna date! And then say why would anyone wanna date her!
Honestly, Noah asking a girl out because she didn’t immediately freak out over him seems like a great story. You could have him not understand that he can just be friends with someone without dating and him only ever having been in romantic relationships could be great on his end. While the somewhat socially inept and romantically lonely, non conventional nerdy girl getting a chance to be with someone who genuinely sees her for who she is and is very attractive helps boost her confidence, leading her to grow into herself more would be an excellent counterpoint.
You could even have her friends dig into things and make that a sub plot about looking out for your friends AND learning to respect boundaries.
i remember being so bugged about that PF episode. I'm black and didn't even consider colorism until the characters stated it. I thought he just liked Zoey for not simping like any ''''celeberty meets normal girl,'' cliche. I hated how they instantly rolled w/ a baseless rumor and instantly shunned zoey. Guy didn''t even get to retort, just a ''i dumped him.'' Even if he did like lighter girls ppl have to realize preferences are a thing we all have. We can't attack a person for having a harmless type.
Thiss!!! It felt like they went straight to colorism they never thought of the possibility that he actually liked zoey. 😌😒😒
That Proud episode could’ve been written so much better if they actually asked a teenager about how they’d respond to that situation. They also just did NOT explain anything to Zoey, at least not of substance so.
I agree with you a 100% the proud family episode was terrible. And the guy could have liked Zoey because Because she had freckles or she was tall or he liked glasses or she wasn't being a fan girl or the color blue. When I 1st watched the proud family episode I didn't know what to think but for some reason it rubbed me the wrong way.
At the end he left her for someone else tho
That was such a bizarre storyline for Proud Family. I'm not against them addressing colorism or how some POC will chase any white person while dismissing people of their own race. It's an interesting topic. But they handled it ok the worst way possible and made it seem like it was a bunch of bitter black/Latina girls jealous that their less attractive friend was getting attention instead of them. Which still could've been ok if the moral of the story was "quit hating" but in the end, they made it seem like the white girl was in the wrong for accepting attention from a boy she liked and she should've just turned him down to make her friends feel better about themselves.
You can tell Twitter users wrote this episode.
There was so much wrong with this episode. First off, ignoring that it turned out to be true for a moment, the entire conflict was based on a RUMOR, but the girls just went with it anyway, rather than trying to confirm it first, because it fit the narrative they'd already built in their heads, that no one would ever be interested in Zoey without an ulterior motive. They were looking for ANY way to delegitimize the relationship because they we're jealous. None of that was ever brought up.
Then, they go and treat Zoey like it was somehow HER fault that he was into her, like she was the bad guy here.
Then the whole Princess Party has some uncomfortable messaging about "staying to your own" given that each character had to dress up as the princess that most resembled them (even pulling crap put of thin air, like DiJonay being the "Brandi edition" and Michael having "Powhatan heritage) then continuing the ostracizing of Zoey by having her be the one princess from "the other studio"
And at no point did anyone ever think about how it would hurt Zoey if she caught feelings for a guy that only liked her for her skin tone, and not for who she is as a person.
Then, they felt the appropriate way to resolve it was by having Zoey have to confirm it herself (off-screen, no lesss) then be the first one to apologize.
I felt so bad for Zoey. We all knew the friends would toss out Penny on anything and now we know they would do the same for Zoey. They all attacked her on everything once she got defensive. It hurt when they said "Has any other boy asked you out to a dance". Instead of trying to talk to Zoey and explain things to her they attacked her and pretty much said no one would want to be with her unless they only want white girls. They all ignore her and talk behind her back right away. It all took one friend claiming he only liked white girls, with no real proof. That could easily have been a rumor. I feel like they shoved the line about him only wanting white girls and admitting it in the end because it looked so bad. It is so bad and they pretty much showed that Zoey will always second guess anyone asking her out. Now she is 'dating' Myron... but like she had no interest him until this whole thing... so I am scared to think she is only with him because she knows that him (and only him) likes her for her and not only because she is white. The way it ended and her being the only one that the show tried to say had to apologize I feel like she will from now on always second guess anyone showing any interest in her.
I think the thing that’s the worst part of the Louder and Prouder episode other than the girls being HORRIBLE friends to Zoey is that DiJonay and Penny do the exact same thing that they are wrongfully accusing Zoey of doing. They both have boyfriends. These two boyfriends have darker skin than Noah. And they completely neglect them and undermine them for nearly the entire episode over a guy with lighter skin. So ironically, if the creators want to discuss this issue, which they should given this criticism toward the show in the past, it doesn’t work because not only are the girls being hypocrites, Zoey has not done anything wrong. The only thing she does wrong is still stay in a toxic friend group that has ruined her confidence and that they think she’s not beautiful or worthy enough to be asked out by a handsome man.
I liked what you said about how people’s ideologies shine through the media they create. Aside from directorial styles, there’s a sort of “flavor” to each person’s films. Hayao Miyazaki, for example, believes it’s important to value the little things, which is why Studio Ghibli movies tend to focus scenes on pleasant, everyday stuff like good food and nice landscapes. Steven Spielberg is apparently a bit of a “kid in a candy shop” when he’s making movies, which is why his often have elements of childlike wonder and adventure. Quentin Tarantino seems like a goofy weirdo, so his films are goofy, weird, and fun to watch.
That can hold true in a negative sense too. I’ve watched films that just seemed off somehow, like they had an undercurrent of pretension; only to watch the behind-the-scenes and notice elements of conceit and toxicity in the interviews.
It's not about the fact that these Political issues exist, it's about how they integrate them into the story & how well they make the characters handle it, if they do it just to try and push an ideologic agenda or to force the viewers to listen to a lecture that is supposed to guilt-trip them, the audience will probably feel like they're being villainized or rehabilitated for the wrong reasons & come to hate it, but if they simply try to inform the viewers that these issues are real & that many people go through with them, but still try to carry on with their lives, and find ways to live normal/everyday lives despite having to deal with these issues on a regular basis, then the audience might see it as more of a hero's journey to overcome great obstacles & actually like it, I'm not sure if everyone will agree with me on That one, but those are just my thoughts on why good/decent entertainment is so hard to find these days.
The Proud Family episode seemed to originally be about the girls being jealous of a famous guy dating Zoey, and colorism was thrown in at the eleventh hour. I noticed that the guy seemed genuinely interested in Zoey. He ignored the conventionally pretty girls in favor of Zoey, which might back up my theory about this episode. Proud Family needs better writers.
(I think Moon Girl's name is Lu Lu?) When I saw her getting bullied for her poofy hair I said out loud "oh hell no". When I was in 5th grade, my best friend to this day would get bullied for the same exact hair do. Every. Day. By half the class. I told every single one of them off every time. They did this until she _cried._ So that episode hit hard when I saw that because I know its a deep rooted pain to be told that you are wrong for who you are and how you look, and I will never know that like any women of color especially black women, but I did witness it for a long time and those bullies don't know but that pain stays. And it festers, and it grows, and becomes the lens in which one views themself, and its never good. She has long grown past that for the most part by now thankfully. But I remember when it still hurt it, and it showed.
She's called lunella
Her name is Lunella Lafayette. She is Haitian American.
Finding someone for a relationship is like restaurants. Some cases you find one that catches your eye/your attention likely due to how good it looks, has a dish that is your favorite, or just aligns with your interests. In that case it is a matter of Come for the presentation, stay only for the quality. Other cases can be happenstance, maybe you come across a restaurant that may not look as good as most, but then you experience the quality of their service and food that turned out so monumentally good that it somehow got you to overlook your preferences, as a result, you have just found a place you will never forget and want to frequent more. Preferences and love can get very complicated, perhaps even controversial for some. But because everyone's preferences are different, it just means that at the very least there is someone out there for everyone. What is important is if both are a good fit for each other. Just because someone found their favorite restaurant doesn't mean that restaurant is going to want someone who turns out to be a problem in their establishment.
Central Park has the exact same episode as moon girl and I think it came out earlier (s3e11 "The Puffs Go Poof") it came out on November 4, 2022 nothing special about that I just want more people to know about this show. Both Central Park and Moon Girl do a great job dealing with these kind of issues.
I love Central Park! Anything, Loren Bouchard creates is gold! Bob's Burgers is my Favorite adult cartoon ever! 🍔🥰
How the hell did they write that entire episode and actually create the entire thing, even putting it out on the streaming service for other people to see, without even realizing for a second that the writing had so many obvious, glaring flaws? Seriously?
The whole group ostracize Zoey because a good looking dude chose her over them (Penny and Dijonay already having boyfriends) really begs the question how any of them are friends to begin with
Personally, if my friend group was like penny’s friend group, I would not hang out with them anymore
Sadly, often, when black boys "prefer" white women, they say black girls are ugly, ghetto, and angry and the white women condone the behavior because it boosts their self-esteem. If the boy bashed black girls/women and Zoey allowed it to happen, then I would understand the others' frustration, but that wasn't the case. The boy's supposed self-hatred is based on a rumor with no proof and they were mad at Zoey, who did nothing, than the boy.
There's a difference between subtext and text. In this case. Subtext and sermon.
As someone who is mixed born white. Louder and prouder really hit a sad note for me when they made Zoey the bad guy, “Apologizing for the guy who had a preference” was not only disappointing but disappointing letting them bully her and making it okay that they can treat someone like that and call them names because there jealous.
It shows kids it’s okay to do that to others of another color.
I feel like if reversed color they would have all been told off if Zoey was black.
I loved how you explained this and did an amazing job!
❤😊
Moon Girl is actually a really good show. Prolly one of the best modern Disney shows
Haven't seen the proud family, but what I've heard is that it's been very much a "we care soooo much about black issues" type of show in an attempt to show how hip with the kids they are