How the West Really Lost God: A New Theory of Secularization
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- In "How the West Really Lost God", leading cultural critic Mary Eberstadt delivers a powerful new theory about the decline of religion in the Western world. The conventional wisdom is that the West first experienced religious decline, followed by the decline of the family. Eberstadt, however, marshals an array of research, from historical data on family decline in pre-Revolutionary France to contemporary popular culture both in the United States and Europe, showing that the reverse has also been true -- the undermining of the family has further undermined Christianity itself.
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Do you agree with Mary Eberstadt?
Yes!
Yes, but I think there are other reasons as well. I have been trying to figure out why the family and church is in collapse for a long time, but I have recently shifted my paradigm. I have been struck by people talking about poverty, "the question is not why are there poor and poverty stricken people, everyone is born poor, the question is why are some people rich". I have now started to think about the family and religion in the same way. The question I ask myself now, is not why is the family and church falling apart, the question is what had enabled it to be so strong in the first place.
These are facts to draw conclusions to.
@@IranianKurd9 ok Satan
kind of stupid not to
There's a swedish poem written by the poet Alf Henriksson that's roughly translated into the following: "God and soldier we honor, in times of war and they stand by our side. But when peace is secured and the plates are filled, we forget about God and the soldier we despise."
I think there's something going on here and it should be investigated.
Like most things, there are multiple factors at work, but not all of them are completely independent.
Costgobbo very true, and sad statement
There's an English poem much like that.
This quote that you refer to was made originally by the famous writer Rudyard Kipling. It comes from his poem, "A Time for Prayer."
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things righted,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted."
~Rudyard Kipling
That's right, but the original is even older. By a chap called Francis Quarles. He lived from 1592-1644. I suppose Kipling got it from him.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
It is crucial to understand history and learn about human patterns in an objective manner. The fact our youth aren't given these critical thinking tools to react to life in an intellectually honest way is perhaps the greatest concern in our modern society.
"The fact our youth aren't given these critical thinking tools to react to life..."
You mean they can't think and wonder how we got all this 'stuff'? How we got life from non-life? And on it goes.
Don't youth think about sex? Here's a fun topic for such youth evo-fools. We have human sexual reproduction (HSR). We know a whole lot about it. Many of us experimented with it. Since you believe in evolution, give a logical explanation with proof of how HSR came about. Here's an example: We had this asexual something that got here by a natural creation that's impossible, the universe formed by some other impossible feat, it gave life by some other impossible feat and somehow gave another impossible feat of an asexual something that eventually mutated a bump, another asexual something eventually mutating a hole, this went on and on of umpteen years, and by mere chance somehow mated from the sexual organs that somehow formed by mere chance not even knowing they were needed so that.........it eventually led to HSR. Sure it's going to be a LONG story and I can't imagine how it could be possible but since you evo-fools believe it, you better have a good explanation. I don't want theories that answer nothing, I want a logical story with proof to back it up. Since you claim it all came about naturally, then give your natural explanation.
They'll have no one to blame but for themselves.
There is no proof of, nor has there ever been proof of a god or godz. You people are either 100 IQ or a threat.
Most everyone here is looking at the practical aspect of things, but forgetting the spiritual. When a nation that was traditionally Christian, turns its back on God and does not follow His laws and precepts, He gives them over, to do what they want to do. The end result is ciaos, confusion, and immorality, which brings poverty, crime, mental illness, etc. and a general breakdown of society. Read Romans chapter one, and you will see that this is right.
I was raised by a single mother, secular certainly. Today a traditional Catholic.
Catholic Church is satanic
Religious adherence is growing in South Korea, China, and Japan. America has a high percentage of people who say they believe in God and pray.
Thank you Heritage Foundation for bringing this brilliantly intelligent woman's articulate perspective to the attention of the listening community. General Douglas MacArthur once said "There's never been a single precedent in the history of nations once political and economic decline begins, unless there's a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, that the nation doesn't evolve into national destruction."
I suppose this would depend on how one defines 'political and economic decline'. I am curious though, as to what examples MacArthur would have used as examples of 'spiritual awakening'...???
This Heritage Foundation inspirational speaker Mary Eberstadt on this broad landscape, she paints this highly detailed and historically brilliant picture on, the historical landscape of a broad spectrum of subjects • reminds me of a series of lectures that Prison Fellowship Founder Chuck Colson, Washington DC, did several decades ago on "The Secularization of America". Daniel Webster, 1823, I quote to various individuals of these historical accords "...If God and His Word are not known and received, the Devil and his works will gain the ascendancy." Christians need to pray and closely study God's Word and take this very, very seriously. We are in a nationwide holocaustic nightmare, and we have been for literally decades. Repentance is critical for there to be nationwide revival. Anything short of this critical necessity to spare future generations, mass tragic national destruction, is threatening the wellbeing of us all.
Someone said to me once the purpose of religion is to explain death. If we were all immortal and young and had a fantastic life who would look for God ? Perhaps what is happening now is the food in our bellies ,and a life devoted to selfishness and modern health care are making God redundant.
@55:00 role of the Welfare State in the decimation of Family and Religion in Western World. She inspires me to write non fiction.
Yup, Are there no work houses? Darwin had a point had a point about allowing the weak die off.
@@SandfordSmythe
Let the weak die off and the Christian church will shrink even more.
I think there is confusion about people's belief in God and people going to church. Most people I know are Christians but mat not go to church.
Jerlin Vinso e
That's absolutely right. Faith is a deeply personal matter. I attend church, but if find the Holy Spirit 7 days at home in prayer and meditation.
People have thought that about many faiths for thousands of years, but it hasn't happened. The reason is because we all know there's something about our inner nature that materialism can't explain.
Money is your God, Go and count your coins
Wow. Sounds like it's you who's throwing the tantrum. Grow a spine.
If I go to Church and don't pay attention and am bored, does that count as attendance?
Find a new church.
To Faith, Family and Friends who share Common Shared Values and Principles that we hold dear as our Constitutional rights, morals and ethics, Democracy! Judeo-Christian values are taught to us to bring out the good to Society. Thank you Mary Eberstadt.
We live in the most stupid society ever .
As an Evangelical pastor who built a church from a handful of people to a mega-church, I can say unequivocally that Mrs. Eberstsdt is right. The life-blood of a growing church are young families.
Babies bring unchurched parents to church. This is nearly a truism among church-planting pastors. Consequently, wise pastors start their new churches in thriving school districts and not in old established neighborhoods. Pastors who do not understand this end up with dying churches.
Very simple answer to, "How America is losing God." 501c3 The fear of the State punishing preachers in the pulpit that they would lose a so called, "non-profit status.' It was also suggested that they could serve jail time if any political speech came from the pulpit. Therefore, sin in government and it's officials could no longer be spoken.
lilbeserk The founding father understood if you taxed it. The government could control it. Therefore it would be infringing upon the 1st amendment.
But, churches do pay taxes on everything but the offerings. They do not sell anything, nor do they demand it. It is free will of the people to give or not to give.
lilbeserk Sorry, I don't know what state you are live, but here in Ohio we pay taxes on property.
Religion declined in large part BECAUSE of the decline of the family, not vice-versa, in many important ways. An important thing to remember.
It is viceversa: when religiousness fades, people do not take morality seriously, become hedonistic because if there is no transcendental purpose, "seize the day" is the slogan of life. All these lead to the decline of family.
Post 6/6/66?
G•d has nothing to do with this discussion. What is at stake is liberation from the oppressive lies of your repressive religion, in service of an exhausted mythology.
The cruel history of Christianity mocks your pretensions.
People often forget (or choose to ignore) WHY women were commanded to respect their husbands, and that's because God Himself told them that the men would be held doubly responsible for the failures of their wives. People answer for their own sins, but God made man first, and ultimately holds him to a higher degree of responsibility for both genders' decisions in a marriage.
@@amandaclaireon4065 your response is archetypical of the reason the solution can be in plain sight and yet not be discovered.
One thing that urbanization brings with it might be cultural conflicts. In a rural area probably ost people have the same religion. My parents were Protestant and Catholic, and my mother never went to church because my father brought us children to a Baptist church. If she had stayed in her small town she might have married a Catholic and continued going to church. Perhaps in some way cultural mismatching through urbalization plays a role in religious decline.
Very interesting and informative for me . thank you Mary
Perhaps the major problem is that when people become involved in and often enough distracted by their intellectual search for economic and individual growth they abstain from foundational religious stability believing that the smarter road will lead to greater realization of meaning in life. Rather than maintaining the balance between individual search for truth with the historical truth of theological doctrines allowing for complimentary insight modernity tugs at the person to find a road other than that clearly delineated .
Christianity isn't against women; Jesus himself treated women with far more respect than anyone else did in the first century. That's one of the reasons they flocked to Him. Christianity's against homosexuality as a behavior, but a true follower of Christ doesn't hate the person who's living such a life, any more than we'd hate an alcoholic or drug addict. Many colleges were started by Christians; John Harvard was a clergyman. The Constitution doesn't guarantee anyone a freedom from religion.
"Not even the gates of hell will prevail against the Church" ...and certainly the lies of the devil and his many minions in Hollyweird, Academia, fakenews , big business and politics WON'T ever prevail against God...Like Saint Teresa of Avila said :"Everything passes but God ; whoever has God HAS IT ALL". Truth is that Caifas, Nietszche, Freud, Marx, Fidel Castro, Judas they all passed, yet Jesus passed yet rose again!!!
The Pentecostal Christian Revival over the last two decades in Brazil also is connected with family reconstruction, as the sociologist Darcy Ribeiro already observed in his book "Povo Brasileiro".
I disagree, what is missing is true leadership of the church of God. The churchgoers can't find God in the church today. There is no difference between the church and the world and most importantly the absence of the Holy Spirit power to save and deliver this sick world so why bother
The information age and the rise of skepticism is killing religion. The meme… 'The internet is where religion comes to die' has never been more true than it is now.
And what leads to scepticism? Could be that in Middle Age, scholars separated too much nature from God and ultimately thought that we can study nature, discover its rules, manipulate those laws, and why bother with God. Then, during Enlightenment, reason replaced God as a normal continuation. What happens now with too many Christians, is that they replace God with man and follow a humanist religión, emptied of sacred. Put back sacred, and things will change. Ideas have long roots just as many plants.
I disagree. People who are in smaller denominations or a special interest group with in denominations, are building connections. Along with newer neopagan groups etc. I think in 10 or so years, you will see a great resurgence of many religions.
Funny how if their mistress is pregnant they beg her to get an abortion.
Christianity is not just about church and memorized prayers, but its a moral compass, a way to help in times of need, and to be grateful for everything you have. Religion is an expression of love to one another, regardless of what religion you are attached to. " Love one another as I have loved you."
If you need religion to give you a moral compass, then you are incredibly obtuse.
@@maryanngarcia3080 I did not say I needed it, but I think overall it can provide certain moral guidelines to live by, not to mention a sense of community with others This is not about a certain religion per se, but merely a way of looking at the world that allows you to realize there is something much greater than yourself.
The rise of the west was due to individualism and curiosity. Breaking the mold, pursing one's interest/greatness and a general curiosity of the world is what led to the Renaissance, age of exploration/colonization, Industrial Age, Space Age and the Age of Information. Individualism and curiosity will also lead to secularism.
Actually the rise of the west through science and technology was actually due to Christianity. The reformation brought people to make religion more personal and read the Bible for themselves. The bible made people realise that the God described was rational rather than irrational. That led to a belief that God had also given humanity the Book of Nature and not just the Bible.
54:00 & Adversity driving us back to organic connection.... "Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in." In the 21st century round of humanity's perennial struggle with the cycle of harder and easier times, the question will be, "What is left of our 'organic connections' when we 'have to go there'? What, exactly, remains, for us to be 'taken in' to?" We are wired from our conception (usually) to weave our most fundamental and powerfully life-affirming bonds naturally, but the forming of our "attachment templates" is still an intricate work -- not an automatic entitlement, and this work is intruded upon madly these days by toxicity in our environments and lifestyles, aimed at and sold to us from every imaginable angle. We have to earn the connections that make a safe and healthy "home" (Church, family, or otherwise) by facing daily adversity together to build authentic connection -- in person. The day of the Flood is too late to start building the Ark.
I’m afraid we are ‘in the days of Noah’, as Jesus said would happen again. No flood of water this time though.
I wonder if this still holds up today.
I don't like the title "how the west REALLY ..etc". It's an interesting hypothesis, but obviously it's one hypothesis among others. For instance. one cannot simply deny or ignore the role of science and education in explaining the decline of belief in biblical truths.
The reason people stopped going to church is not that they lost their faith in God but because many preachers lost the fire in their belly. They repeat and repeat tired old sermons that neglect the updating of spiritual understanding. One example would be they still preach the idea that God is responsible for everything humans do and that through prayer, people can manipulate an outcome. However, many now understand that the choices people make and the effect of nature are the primary reason things happen as they do. God has given us this world and instructed us how to behave according to his will. What people do with that is up to them. We were never promised a rose garden. in fact, warned against loving the world.
Things go in cycles..in 2024, it could come back
Just learn the difference between right and wrong. In other words, establish a common framework of rules by which people should endeavour to live their lives, pass this framework on to one's children and away we go!
Problem is, we do not know what right and wrong is, since we do not follow God's law. For example, God said that people are male and female, but not according to what the new rules say. Now people can be what they feel they are. In Genesis 3 the devil, told Eve the lie that she could know good and evil. People now make up their own rules by calling good, evil and evil, good. So Satan's lie is still with us up until today.
It takes a family to build a nation. Commandments, Bible stories, rituals, and church family held in common hold societies together.
Corporate morality instills much deeper values than teaching your children, "Just don't be a jerk, and care about others."
The printing press made Christianity sick and the internet is killing it.
In Britain & many places in the Commonwealth, Religious Beliefs were lost for those who directly or indirectly suffered the wretchedness, loss, tragedy, mass-sorrow & the resulting, harrowing effects from horrendous places like the Somme, Ypres, Passchendaele & other WW1 & more subsequent Butcher’s Yards Of WW2 & other Wars since! In fact to many survivors & particularly to many of the families of the victims of these conflicts, the years & decades that passed afterwards did not heal the wounds that time was falsely supposed to heal but left them with a dreadful emptiness & never-ending anguish that doused & mocked any meaningful hope & solace that a religious belief is supposedly to bring to its adherents, but alas for many, never actually does or hadn’t subsequently done so with in-numerous others over their remaining lifetimes until they, themselves had passed on!!
This was & still remains the actual, disruptive reality caused directly by wars through their negative & numerous economic & social consequences, coming in their wake for the many people & families, left behind to struggle through life, particularly in the 1920s, 30s & thereafter, & with more recent wars & conflicts, even up to the present day!! You need not search far & wide to find the reasons why many people in many different societies, perhaps justifiably regard the contemporary religions across the Western World, to be in the likely was process of just becoming other derelict, obsolete & forgotten mythologies, as had previously happened to our Roman, Greek, Nordic, Celtic & other pre-Christian religions had done in Europe millennia ago!!
Without wishing to needlessly appear derisive, scornful, cynical or flippant, it is probably the reality of knowing a little too much nowadays about how we live & how others in power over us,control or manipulate most of our lives; & to the realization that these things therefore reveals the stark facts in life, that there are no such things as; ‘Santa Claus’, the ‘Tooth-Fairy’ or ‘Living Happily Ever-after’ & that religious beliefs seem to be just another string that our ‘puppeteer masters’ seem to have contrived to have attached to us, in order to keep us placidly & obediently in line & dancing slavishly to their every whim & tune! To many life is at best, just one big, continuous bad-joke to be tolerated & smiled at, if you can, after all, perhaps it really was in fact the case that, “IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS MAN, THEN HE CREATED HIS GOD (OR GODS!)” & things have never been the same since, have they?
I hate the fact that you think exactly like
me, and since your wrote down the exact content of my mind, I can guess that you are, just like me, unable to shake off religion off your mind. You are in a constant battle between God and Nihilism. I would like to know you mate.
Think of all the wars that have been waged in the name of religion. Total madness!
colin Dant If god did not get the blame some one else would .Wars are essential to maintain civilisation everything we have worth having comes from war . Man was born at first to war with nature to survive . if you think you can have civilisation with no wars you are insane ,or perhaps you are a beauty queen ?
@@rolandhawken6628 total rubbish!
France Revolution, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler were all killing people in the name of Atheism. Most people killed by war, were in the 20th century by Atheist.
It always amazes me how atheist Mao Zedong has such a high body count. I took an interest in Chinese history when I was 14, because I knew of gendercide and started to think about all the hopelessly single guys that gendercide would create. What would they be doing?
It is clear to me that totalitarian assholes cause most war, religion just happens to be popular among certain totalitarian personalities.
Judao Christian ? Either Judism or Christianity.
Judeo-christian. Judaism is the root of Christianity. The first Christians were Jews who did not intend to start with founding a new religion but believed Jesus is the messiah that Judaism had predicted the coming of, until St Paul came along and opened the movement to people outside the community.
@@wanuno1 There's no reason to apply this syncretism. Why not call Judaism "Zoroastrian-Judaism" since Zoroastrianism is the root of Judaism? Because it is a different religion. Therefore there would be no reason to ascribe this same framing to Judaism and Christianity. But even if it made sense, your claim isn't true. The moment the Jews accepted Christ they abandoned Judaism, and henceforth Peter became the first Pope and Catholicism was discovered. The fact that they were "ethnic Jews" does not have anything to do with them carrying over their previous practices and therefore precludes Christianity from Judaic influence. Again. There is no reason that people today should ascribe this syncretism to Christianity, except for the fact that the modern Rabbinic and Talmudic Jews, by using this rhetoric, gain social influence and control, and indoctrinate Christians into thinking otherwise.
Western society was not founded on "Judeo-Christian" principles, nor on Judaic principles, but _Christian principles._
I'm not sure. I always think of the Christian man Dr. Harvey Kellogg, who scammed masses of Americans into circumcising their boys.
It is interesting that the greatest people mentioned in the Bible were the most educated and wealthiest people. They were the Prophets, Kings, and Leaders of cities who encountered God and shared their spiritual experiences with as many people as possible. When they they let their fame and riches get to their heads, that’s when they began to lose their power and many times died.
The Heritage Foundation 47:04 agree, time will tell
For most of history, marriage has been less about the love between spouses and more about an institution for begetting and raising children. Until recently, the only way to beget children was through the intercourse between the sexes (male and female).
Indeed, one of the main factors considered by the Supreme Court was that the meaning of marriage has changed and has become spouse-centred rather than child-centred.
Richard Verver smarriage was created for the protection of children rightly so,since they are the most vulnerable in our society. Otherwise it's purely selfish and that leads to disaster.
Not convincing at all: affluence and education are the main causes of loss of faith, low birth rates and individualism. More traditional families don't cause more Christianity. That sounds like conservative wishful thinking. Welfare state collapsing? More conservative wishful thinking. People lose their faith because the supernatura; is not very convincing to somebody who knows about physics, biology and logic. That's all Frau Eberstadt.
Yes, I sometimes joke that faith in God is declining because most people aren't paranoid schizophrenic, and won't pretend to be paranoid schizophrenic anymore.
"little knowledge leads away from God, but much knowledge leads towards Him"
@@joane24 A hollow slogan. Knowledge of the sciences unmasks religion. On top of that logic tells us that believing things without evidence is silly. Bewijs maar eens dat de oude Egyptenaren of de Grieken het fout hadden.
Very few people argue against Gay marriage based on the Bible because serious political people know we are not a theocracy would not want it to be so. Gay marriage represents a change of a standard which must be thought about. Additionally marriage has been the province of the States. to elevate it to a national issue decided by judges would be bad law. That has nothing to do with the bible. Since gay marriage was brought into this what argument for this cannot also be made for polygamy?
Chambers' book "Witness" should be required reading for college students.
If you honestly believe Christianity is just about a book or a building, then you're completely blind to the heart of it. All other "religions" teach about man trying to reach God on his own, but Christianity is about God coming down to us, and taking our place for the crimes we've committed against Him. Its about a personal relationship, not just rules.
Moviefan2k4 Except there is no bible verse supporting your crazy oneness or trinitarian incarnation/atonement statement.
Psalms 119:151
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5
The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1
The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13
and The Word God made flesh John 1:14. He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart.
Psalms 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me
Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
With obedience to The Father in Deut.6:8-9, The Father anoints us with His Word, putting us in His Son, The Holy Spirit.
Build up the body of Christ by 'putting on' The Lord. Cling to, dwell in the law (Ten Commandments) and testimony (Sermon on the Mount). We know His voice.
His words are spirit and they are life. Hear Him. Prepare for your future and the life of your loved ones. As Paul tells us, "put on Jesus." Cling to, dwell in the Truth.
The Spirit of God, the Ten Commandments, used to be everywhere across America, not any more. Few homes will contain the precious Word of God. Our schools, our court houses and public property have mostly removed the Commandments. God's Word will preserve us if we apply them once again across our Country. Each of us, on our property, our loved ones, on our all. He never left us, we left Him. Surround your world in Light.
Christianity was born out of ancient Judaism; Jesus Himself was called "King of the Jews", though the Sanhedrin resented that title. The term "Judeo-Christian" is simply used to explain that both served as a core foundation for all the laws and ethics originally placed in the founding documents of the United States. Many of the Founders identified themselves as Christians, including George Washington, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, John Jay, Roger Sherman, and John Witherspoon, to name a few.
I have to disagree with you. Christianity was born out of Grace, through Faith. I puke in my mouth when I hear "acient judaism". Paul fought violently against this, even against the apostles.. to separate "Christianity" from Judaism. Abraham was account righteous because of "Faith", not ceremonies.
"Contraceptive technology has disrupted the elemental rhythms of birth and death and family as has no other historical force: almost everyone would agree to that..."
"And, of course, the Pill also contributed to the decline of Western Christianity in another way: demographically. The current plight of Mainline Protestantism, for example, was brought on in part by the embrace of contraception. There’s a chapter in the book called “Assisted Religious Suicide” detailing exactly that."
And this is where the Communists got started!
Bunk. Eberstadt wastes our time by mistaking coincidence and correlation for causation. The answer is that in America, Christianity has become about beliefs and how the right beliefs will deliver individual prosperity. Younger generations are increasingly, and earlier, aware of the lack of evidence for their family's religion and deity. They also don't feel their individualistic religion represents their tolerant and humanist values; when forced to choose between friends and doctrines, they choose their friends. There you go: drastically less retention of young people.
Too much money allows people to make bad decisions, whether it be divorce, or single parent child raising.
Too little money means people are not in a financial position to bring up children.
46 in refers to Sweden and Scandinavia and indeed IRELAND as homogenous _ that was then this is now both countries intentionally targeted for refugees to prevent the homogeneity referred to in this talk
Nice to hear proper recs to sociology again
I love seeing how Japan and South Korea won't open up for any reason. The l,owest birth rates in the world aren't a valid excuse.
I will buy both her books, already a fan!
The west abandons God and God abandon them and leave alone they they seek God again.
If he really wants us to at least acknowledge his existence, then all he has to do is come fourth and show himself, and give us new reliable evidences. If he exists, and stays hidden, then he has only himself to blame when people don't think that he exists.
@@redblaze8700He has, I would recommend you look into the miracles of the eucharist seen in the past decade. Also, apparitions of the Virgin Mary, Fatima and Our Lady of Good Success as good places to start. C.S. Louis also beautifully wrote an answer to this question in his book "The Screwtape Letters". The devil writes to one of his workers "You must have often wondered why the Enemy [God] does not make more use of His power to be sensibly present to human souls in any degree He chooses at any moment. But you now see that the Irresistable and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of His scheme forbids him to use. Merely to override the human will (as His felt presence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo." If God were to reveal himself in the way you are speaking of all would turn to him, and thereby make free will obsolete. In order to maintain our free will God can give us signs of his presence (through the miracles I mentioned above), but He must never fully revel Himself in a compleatly indisputable way. Therefore by our free will we must choose to face him and ask for the grace to see Him fully revealed. He could have abandoned us compleatly. I mean look at the state of the world! Yet, because of his love God offers us redemption if we would only turn to him. Albeit it is own time, which can be frustrating. I would highly recommend C.S. Louis' book to help develop an understanding of God and of the true enemy, Satan. For more information on the real influence of Satan look up Jesse Romero. He has some pretty incredible stories. I sympathize with your frustration and hope that you let your reason, intellect, and will guide you to the truth, not your frustration and anger towards what you feel God should do. All my best wishes. JMJ
Maria Crossland all I see from you is religious talks that won’t convince me. I prefer evidence through facts, not faith. If your heavenly narcissist wants me to at least acknowledge his existence the all he has to do is come fourth and give us good reliable evidence that won’t be corrupted or misinterpreted like the Bible.
God isn’t real, and neither is Satan. All prophets were either madmen or power hungry charlatans. Religion might have been a necessary evil in the past, but as science advances humanity is growing away from such outdated idiocy.
Red Blaze, we don’t have to give you proof. There is enough out there do your research. Btw, see you in hell!
@@terry4137 Well if your God is going to torture me forever simply because I didn't know that he existed, then that proves that your God is an evil sadistic narcissist who is wore than Hitler and Stalin. That kind of god deserves nothing but contempt.
I found your talk interesting. There is a book,out of print, that would be worth finding called Seven Men that Rule the World From the Grave. It speaks much about your topic . I've studied this much myself in the heels of over a thousand years of Catholic despotism in Europe where adherence to the doctrines and practice of the Catholic church were enforced by law and during a bloody reformation in which a
Catholics and protestants fought killed, burned at the stake, drowned,and tortured each other set the stage for Atheism as a welcome alternative
Jesus christ is Lord
NOT
More like a weak fictional loser!
The further we drift from Christian values and morals, the worse things get. Fact.
Then how can it be that the most secular/atheistic countries are the best places to live in?
Oh, I'm sure the world is much better when people who don't like children are tricked to "Be fruitful and multiply" and end up being horrible parents.
Faith and Family - the fundamental building blocks of civilization. Mary Eberstadt argues that the relationship between them may be more complex than commonly thought.
And I do want to thank you for carrying on a civil debate.
It's in religion's interest to act all mystified about rising secularism, and then blame it on the decline of the family. But if you ever bother to take 5 minutes and listen to atheists and those who reject traditional religion, one theme emerges time and time again: "I learned too much."
"But if you ever bother to take 5 minutes and listen to atheists and those who reject traditional religion, one theme emerges time and time again: "I learned too much.""
My actual experiences from flirting with radical atheists as a youth suggest the opposite; that they know next to nothing about what they talk, simply use science as a replacement for God in a hilarious and pathetic demonstration of man's desire for a deity over them, and that all that pretense of reason goes out of the window at the first sign of effective intellectual opposition to reveal an attitude of animal hatred and conniving that is more befitting totalitarians than a faction of soothsayers laying sole claim to reason.
Actually, I'd be tempted to use your words as an example, if they weren't so puerile that I'd be afraid of getting accused of going after low hanging fruit.
Well, it doesn't take too much knowledge to logically reject the notion that the creator of this quintillion-star universe came to Earth slumming, knocked up an ignorant Jewish teen without asking, who then gave birth to an avatar of the god who sacrificed himself to himself to atone for an ancient act of disobedience. People who believe that shit are stuuuuuupid!
I'm sure the decline of family and secularization is part of the issue; but what about the economic inequality ? People have seen over the last few decades the religious right adopt economic policies as well as foreign policies that have hurt alot of people. If you preach morality on the one hand, but act like you're indifferent to people's economic problems, it's all talk and no walk.
it does not matter who says that. its about respecting someone. you let a book and a steeple cloud your judgement for others. sad.
thank god i left this poisonous ritual long ago.
If you understand the Bible, your judgement Will not be clouded, but you gain a much deeper understanding of existance, you start to respect life from beginning.
I find the greatest flaw in this study/book is the ascribing of the strength of Christianity to going to a church building. It seems the author is an ateist with a soft spot for the family and Western Civilization. The rise of feminism is never explicitly mentioned which is suspect to me. In such a study, I think the author should have at least tried to understand Christianity and its history. There is much more to say here but this is a comment, not a discussion. I do like the topic but the content I found wanting.
The problem is nobody can agree of what constitutes "feminism".
The moment someone gets close to the objective answer he's laughed off the stage and derided as a misogynist.
atheism
feminism
modernism
all three spokes on the same subversive wheel.
@@Wilantonjakov I wonder how many of these things would exist if the industrial revolution didn't exist.
Ok, I'd like a crack at this... The religious and the scientific are two groups of people trying to describe the universe around them, and how it works. The scientific do it quantitatively. The religious do it qualitatively. They are both describing the same thing in two different ways. They are, in my opinion, both correct. It's the same with music. There are those who play the piano by reading notes on a page to reproduce the music. There are others who can't read music, but who can "hear" the music within themselves, and play it on the keys. Is either one more musical than the other? Not to me. Perhaps it's a time for science, rationality, and pragmatism to have attention paid to them for a while. Let us learn what we can from a scientific standpoint from those who have a mind and enthusiasm for it. Let not the religious feel threatened by science. Are you who are religious threatened by computers and telescopes? Conversely, are the scientific minded threatened by descriptions of the origins of the cosmos from religious laypeople? It's wisdom on the part of both to admit they can't adequately describe the world on their own, such as it is, without leaning over the shoulder of the other and asking for insight. When you can pull back and see the beauty of how these two worlds interlace to describe our existence, you'll have your heart and mind working as one - a powerful experience.
FUCK OFF STUPID!
The caring of "church family," a sense of meaning, belonging, guidelines for moral behavior, rejection of selfish and destructive ones, altruism, meaningful tradition and ritual, compassionate giving and "giving back," thankfulness" and a sense that we sin but still are loved, universal stories held in common which encourage selflessness, courage, that prayer is effective, and that " there is so much more to reality" and that things do not bring lasting happiness, and the comfort that death does not have the final say are the main aspects churches and corporate faith , all taken as a whole,, provide in ways that being unchurced, "religious,or agnostic/atheist cannot ever provide.
Liberal public education. Itb teaches that education has all the correct answers. Everything has equal value, and as a liberally educated being you then have all the answers and do not need a supreme being to direct you. This thinking leads humans to believe they can be their own God cause you are a God. Liberal Education has been elevated to a secular faith.
Religion fulfills many peoples lives. The fact that you don't agree does not bother me. What I always wonder in these threads (as I get into them a lot with atheists) is why my faith bothers you so much. No one forces you to accept a faith at the end of a gun. Your side does enforce atheisim through social justice etc which can only be defined as some third party defines it. There is no objective definition possible
This is why amateurs shouldn't be doing sociology.
Conclusion I draw is that selfish greedy people do not have children or have them plentifully, Or well. and selfish greedy people also don't believe in God or go to his house, at least voluntarily.
I respectfully believe you are twisting a few things. I can think of no bills that have been proposed based on the bible, or Torah or any other holy scripture. Again I am not bothered at all by your lack of faith in a God, but the anger of atheists is what troubles me.
You take Love , honor and Obay Out of the marriage vow , you take the man's place out of marriage and family.
You did liberate women you
Emancipated.them.
It does seem as though the modern welfare state works to create more single parent, mother headed families dependent on the social welfare system, such as AFDC in the 60s. Perhaps by making the two parent family unnecessary for millions of people, the liberal welfare state also undermined faith and religion. They wanted to destroy the family in order to have greater control over children's education and values. In Scandinavia it seems to me that massive Muslim immigration has brought in very high Muslim birthrates and the fear of demographic replacement. In this case, the welfare state supports fertility among the migrants, whose families can grow large while being paid for by tax dollars. If the family is the source of religious commitment, then the welfare state should be reduced. My friends in Europe seem to think that a big welfare state should increase fertility among secular people and Christians as well. But perhaps the right way to strengthen the family must be different in some way.
What is most important to remember, however, is that America remains the world's last hope for achieving complete Secularism. Without the influence of rationalism and secularization, we run the risk of being at perpetual war.
It is interesting to me that the speaker here focuses upon Christianity as a crutch, of sorts, that helps individuals marry and have families. Now, on one hand I can understand this argument. After all, rural Americans are most likely not Biblical scholars. They need church for emotional and communal support, something I do not wish to tread upon exactly. But to blindly accept Christianity is yet another major issue altogether. In my own church experience, I have always found the entire ordeal to be extremely unpleasant and unnecessary (speaking as a recovering Baptist church attendee). In order to divide a people they first have to be brought together. I also came to realize that isolation isn't always a bad thing. Too much time spent in crowds (and especially around family) will produce a deleterious effect upon anyone's psyche. Add into this that Eberhart and her associates do not seem to grasp the purpose of actual Christianity (Antisemitism) and we now find ourselves in quite the conundrum.
I am 38, unmarried, have no plans to get married and I am not sure when or if I will ever had children. And I will never under any circumstances go back to church. And I've never been happier or more at peace with myself and with my environment. I think that while it is true that some people need church after having children I would hasten to caution anyone who is seriously considering joining this war against other faiths because while the Noahide laws and Shariah laws may not yet be enforceable in the States, that day could potentially come. And Christian people, blinded as they are by sentimentality and easy emotion, may never come to realize that they are viewed as blood sacrifices by the other 2 major belief systems. In America, we have an opportunity to stop this war against reason and truth if only we can be brave enough to overturn our superstition-laced past. The psychological conditioning proffered by End Times propaganda is significant. On the Talmudic calendar, Christianity itself does indeed have an expiration date. When it is revealed to Christian groups at the "end of days" that they have actually been worshipping an anti-Messiah and not the real one, then their cultural fate will become clear to them. This is the tragedy of misreading that we all must face, and it goes a long way towards explaining why most Christian people are neither close readers nor intellectuals.
"There was only one Christian, and he died on the Cross."
Friedrich Nietzsche
As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the times of The Son of Man....!
+James Lee : You cannot infer the meaning of the statement? Ok lets ask this....what would give God enough reason to want to destroy His creation, the entire human population of the earth, besides Noah and his family? The reason is stated quite plainly in the bible. Man removed himself from God. Is this not happening again today?
+James Lee . If that is your opinion, good for you, I'm not going to try and change your mind. you can sort it out with God the day you see him. I however did not try and explain the reasons behind the Noah story, but merely quoted the bible, which I deem factual, as to the reason why it happened. Peace
Well the problem with taking it factually is that it was never written with the intention of being factual. Western Christians have NO IDEA about the occultic writing style that characterizes the Bible and other sacred writings from that region of the world. We know that it would be impossible to have 2 of every species and have a workable food chain on Earth. Like what do carnivores eat after the flood if they eat other animals then those animals would cease to exist. How would the trillions of insects necessary to support higher order life reproduce fast enough. None of this is addressed in the Genesis flood and for a person in 21st century to take it as factual is unfortunate. The God of the Hebrew Scriptures is violent, vindictive, emotionally challenged, reactive and impulsive. These traits are frowned upon throughout humanity --yet justified by self hating humans who believe that they let God down in the garden of Eden another story not meant to be taken literally.
+James Lee: I am def not going to go into the nature of God, as I am not qualified, but will make a few points.
Do parents not love their children, yet on the other hand chastise them. This do not mean they have ill will towards them, but to teach them to be better persons. Children on the other hand do not see the intention, and believe that their parents are being nasty(Does that ring a bell?)
You question the factuality of the bible based on our understanding of the physical laws of nature, but exclude those instances where the physical laws appears to not have effect. Lets use as an example something as silly as seeing a ghost. Now many people will say ghosts dont exist, but tell that to someone who has actually seen one...LOL.
A second example is of the miraculous. If one true miracle can be proven, then therein lies the proof of the supernatural and it goes without saying, the proof of God.
Therefore if God and the supernatural exists, it means the physical laws can be trancended, and thus God, being omnipotant can suspend these laws.
It is further quite clear that you rely on your mentality exclusively to make sense if this world, but humans are so much more than that. We are not only brains on legs, but more complicated with thoughts, emotions, intuition etc. So in pondering the existance of God we have to sometimes just feel.
Alternately there is the easier way, and that is just to genuinely ask Him. Not for reasons of questioning His actions, but for the want to know Him.
But Noah's Ark is fiction, didn't happen, therefore can't happen again.
Interesting!!
Judeochrystianity it's some kind of oxymoron. Is there judeoislamity aroud somewhere?
Never have. Never will.
Why do all Heritage Foundation videos have such crappy sound? It is really aggravating and makes it almost impossible to share. On this video, not only is the speaker extremely difficult to hear, the questions being asked are impossible to pick up. How hard is it to boost the sound overall and provide a microphone for the questioners to speak into. Very sad. And we wonder why our ideas lose to liberal progressive ones.
The decline of family is the the result of the decline of wealth, and of the common ethnic community.
It's about the process of eroding away the middle class where the heart of any nation is found. Millennials have been priced out participation in the so called American Dream by and large. There is very little wage growth for working people who want to start families but expenses and debt pile up so high young people tend to just opt out. Not to mention all the sacrifice it requires to dedicate to a family without the support of a community of your own is completely unrealistic.
The West has not LOST "God"... rather, more evolved souls are Tossing Religion for a much greater, much more expansive and spiritually MATURE "God" model.
"The West has not LOST "God"... rather, more evolved souls are Tossing Religion for a much greater, much more expansive and spiritually MATURE "God" model." Don't confuse Satan with a "much more evolved spirituality". Based on how you write, you are far from a more evolved spirituality, you seem rather rudimentary.
She said God died. She don't know that jesus died not God. She lost all credibility in my opinion.
This is idiotic. Self-proclaimed Christians who refuse to pray without ceasing, do not study their Bible and who're not allowing themselves to be led of the Holy Spirit DESERVE the world they live in.
Excellent presentation. I agree with you conclusions.
Bottom line, is God real or not, the answer is yes, God is very real, if God, is not real you are wasting your time going to church. ✝️
Why is your statement about "synagogues & churches" missing the word "mosques" ?
Because she refers to the Western world.
Would you ask Islamic countries like Pakistan why they discriminate against Christians and other minorities often state sponsored?
She skipped over the real reason for a decline in Christian faith. Please refer to John 3:19-20 where the gospel points out that people hide from the light (the truth of the Gospel) so that their sins don’t get seen. God sets out a system of conduct for us to follow (voluntary), and to do otherwise is sin. The thing is that doing otherwise is fun and pleasurable, and many people would rather do that than pursue the safety of following Gods leading. This is why church attendance is declining.
Thanaksks for your insites. I think the baby boomers which I was one of had the fear of God put in them about divorce and financial strain and being told we will wind up working at mcdonalds if we don't go to college. Then we had school loans.
Some of us feel reverence, connection, and understanding with God, humbly. And, we find the Jesus aspect as basically bizarre, and probably not valid, but otherwise in line with the Christian faith in all the other aspects.
We didn’t know how much explanation was necessary to come to the conclusion that the idea of god was only a human creation that simple common sense would dismiss by the time we reach the age of reason which usually come by the time we are twelve or about. Obviously something is at work in the mind of all of us, no matters what countries under consideration. That something has a name, education and teaching to children by adults having interests to perpetuate such beliefs, interests associated with certain privileges. Rarely will you see a highly situated person in the social ladder with some education and wealth be a believer in any god, but he/she will certainly pretend to believe in a god to suit a political or business agenda. Do we have to be a believer first before we come to reason properly and dismiss such infantile concept of a god in existence placed above all that exist. Mystification is how we cover our weaknesses and lack of courage to face the reality of our existence on earth, an existence full of contradictions based on societies divided in classes. If justice cannot be applied equally between ourselves regardless of all the rules and laws in place then the concept of a saviour above all of us becomes a kind of spiritual need, the Valium of people, not the opium as Karl Marx suggested although it was said in a context few understand simply because they never read his work with the tenacity required.
Having a family forces you to be serious about life, by the very biological institutes. Weather your actions produce better or worse outcomes matters. Therefore people very practically care about ethics (how to follow a good effectively) and no longer engage with Religion like “Genesis 1 is so rediculous ” but by what it actually teaches.
Both church attendance and birth rate or declining families are lagg measures.. not lead measures what about measuring the success of revivals or austerity in upbringing in the preceding religious generation?
I agree to some of this, but you can be a person of deep personal Faith but not what anyone would call 'religious'. I have followed the Guidelines of Problacism for many years and consequently I have been given everything I could possibly ever need or want. I also don't suffer from any anxieties, fears or depression. Problacism does not require any prayer, churches, iconoclasm or worship. All it requires is that you lose all your ego and indiscriminately help everyone who is 'sent' to you without any expectation of recognition or reward. Trust in the Universe and be Relentless.
What is this "judeo"-christian tradition ?
In books before the 60s, Christians never spoke of Judeo-Christianity, just Christianity. Or maybe Greco-Christian.
I have read that the term arose for a reason, but I forget what it was. However, the Christian religion arose from the Jewish religion. The founders were Jews and Jesus never claimed he was starting a new and different religion. Many of the things he taught are already found in the Old Testament and others do not contradict it. Much is simply a fulfillment of the promise of Judaism. So, of course we should want to defend Judaism against its enemies, many of whom are pounding at the gates of civilization today.
Language has effects.
Nietzsche claims that Christianity is a mere " platonism for the masses"
You can't lose what never existed.
Another self appointed Enlightened One.
Life from non life.
Consciousness from non consciousness.
Ascensions from non ascensions.
Something from nothing.
Complexity, order, harmony, purpose and function from chaos and disorder.
No evidence for any of these things. Atheists answer? Who cares if it does not. Our delusions are enforced by it
@NotACapitalist wrong. No one is born an atheist because people are not aware when they are born. Do you remember the moment you were born?
Wrong on all accounts
Theist wins atheist loses
@@Zinner222 Atheist wins. Trump losing proves that even more, after Evangelicals prayed for his win. 🤣🤣✊✊🤘🤘
Right on the money. You can't lose what has never ever existed.
If the breakdown of family structures has led to falling church attendance how does one square that hypothesis with high church attendance among blacks while dysfunctional families are the norm among blacks?
+Steve Weiss While there remain strong pockets of Faith in the Black community, as well as strong and intact Families, the total numbers of both show a dramatic decline since the 1950's.
+Steve Weiss While there remain strong pockets of Faith in the Black community, as well as strong and intact Families, the total numbers of both show a dramatic decline since the 1950's.
Relative to other groups it remains high along with a high proportion of Black Americans affirming some of the most fundamentalist-oriented beliefs contained within Christianity.
African culture also saw a resurgence in the 20th century in the US, and African culture is deeply rooted in religion; you see this in how African religion was adopted in the Caribbean.
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Our laws are not based on Christianity.
Christianity is about faith. It is about having faith and believing because you want to believe not because there is a logical reason to it. There is no thinking involved which is why it is so easy to be religious. Why is it that the majority of wealthy and successful people are not religious? Because they have better things to do than believe in fairytales.
This is misleading. There is ample evidence that poorer areas are much more religious because thry cling to something to give them hope. They are also much more easily lead and indoctrinated by those around them.
It never had a god.