I agree 100%… I specifically bought the GR86 BECAUSE it lacked all of those ‘safety features’ that take control out of your hands and put it in the hands of a computer. Want a car that will keep you in lane and from bumping into other cars get a Tesla 🤣
@@Graceless I just got a new 300 Landcruiser but the first thing you have to do is disconnect the lane keep I can not find how to disconnect permanently. Very frustrating.
Totally agree, I can’t stand the features as they bug the life out of you, it’s simplicity is it’s best feature, just like a E30 M3, light, simple and quick enough
Here in Western US you need to drive 40-60 miles stretches regularly just to get to the fun roads. Adaptive Cruise Control is amazing for our traffic conditions and long stretches. No one has fun driving a little car on a highway, better to just set it in Cruise and let the car handle the nonsense.
If you buy a GR 86 in manual, you shouldn't "need" any of that assistance technology. If you can't steer a car between 2 white lines and put the brakes on without shunting the car in front of you, go and surrender your license because you shouldn't be driving. I find all this "assistance" technology annoying, I don't need it and turn or configure it all off as much as possible. For me in a car like this, the more basic, the better.
All these modern assistant techs cause serious reliability issues, and most of them you don't even need. When electrical parts in your car fail, you can't fix it without having an expensive diagnosis system that can recalibrate and adaptations
I hate to break it to you but when you account for inflation cars today are actually not much more expensive than they were when I started driving back in the late 70’s. For example, the price of a brand new Datsun 240Z in 1970 was the equivalent of about $23,000 in today’s money. And it’s the same story with the 1980 Mazda RX-7. These were both lauded at the time for being fantastic inexpensive sports cars - much like the GR86 is considered to be today. But even though we are paying about the same for cars these days when you account for inflation, we are getting SO MUCH more now. Cars these days will not only last 3 times longer but they handle better right from the factory then anything we could have dreamt of back then - even the 240Z kind of handled like shit in stock form compared to today’s cars. They also get much more power per liter of displacement than ever before. Not to mention the amazing safety features and entertainment systems. Basically we are getting ten times the car for about 25% more money. Frankly I’m amazed that cars are so much better today without costing that much more than the cars that were around when I was a teenager.
@@SLOBeachboy that’s crazy then kuz people used to be able to afford cars and houses. Now I gotta work 2 jobs just to afford a car, and will likely never get to own a home.
@@Mxkuh- Nobody is saying that both new and used car prices are not at an all-time high right now. We all know that they are. And we also know that they are about 25% more than pre-pandemic prices just a few years ago. Still it always cracks me up when people say that new cars are no longer “affordable” because the truth is that they have technically never been affordable for the majority of people who buy them so there is no reason to suddenly start whining about it now. In other words, even 30 or 40 years ago there were many people who stupidly bought new cars even though this would mean making car payments that amounted to more than 15% of their monthly income. By the way, the median income in the USA in 2022 was actually around $75,000 (has gone up since then) and the current average new car cost is around $45,000 (average between the low-priced models and the high-end models). In 1970 on the other hand the median income in the USA was around $9500 and the average new car price was around $3,500. This means that the average new car price was about 37% of the median income back then and now its 58% which is obviously a big jump. Of course, comparing a car from 1970 to a modern car is kind of like comparing the GPS navigation system on your phone to an old magnetic compass and paper map. Modern cars not only last 3 times longer but they are infinitely better in every conceivable way. But none of this really matters. The real problem is that people today feel they are entitled to own a brand-new car and therefore they think that new cars - even midrange new cars - should be “affordable” for them. Of course, purchasing a brand-new car has always been an idiotic move from a financial perspective. Financially savvy people with lots of money rarely ever buy new cars because they would never put money into a depreciating “asset”. In fact, it is mostly mid to low-income people who buy brand new cars. And I cannot even count the number of minimum wage employees I know of who stupidly purchased a brand-new car for themselves in the past few years. I have personally always bought used cars myself, although a few years ago I sold all my cars before moving overseas to retire. One of these cars I bought for $14,000 back in 2000 when it was 7 years old and I sold it for $35,000 20 years later. Anyway 6 months ago I decided to move back to California, and I immediately picked up a 2011 Honda CR-Z with a manual transmission for $3000 and I spent an additional $2000 for a new paint job. So now I have a very reliable and nice-looking car for $5000 that will probably last me for another ten years (seems affordable to me). And since it would not make sense to have full coverage on a car that is only worth $5000 my car insurance is only about $500 a year. Why would I spend $40,000 on a new car that might only be worth less than half that amount in ten years? I don’t know about you but I cannot afford to flush $20,000 down the toilet just so that I can feel good about myself because I am driving a new car.
The lack of all the tech and safety nannies is the entire reason people want this car. Subaru\toyota know that. A real enthusiast is going to get the manual. A real enthusiast doesnt want any of that garbage. Anyone shopping the automatic version is already making a huge sacrifice and is likely a very vanilla driver\owner anyways. Let them have their babysitters running in the background.
I was never taught manual so I can't afford to buy a car in manual if I can't drive it, I'm still an enthusiast. Took my juke canyon carving and ending up racing a challenger down. Let people enjoy their cars despite what trans they got
Of all the things listed, the one thing I really would like on this car are parking sensors. Visibility is not great and a distorted (fisheye) camera view isn't exactly something I'd rely on.
That is just added weight. These cars intentionally skimp back on all the unnecessary odds n ends. That is why I love it. Even on cars that have sensors 360 cameras and all that which I own, I dont use it. As a heavy equipment operator all I need are mirrors.
do you... really need active safety? ive never thought of it as something that i *need*, and one of the reasons that this car is appealing (in manual) is that it has none of that stuff. it all seems like a huge pain more than anything
The Toyota has different suspension set up and the cost diff w the Subaru is not material. This review stinks. Disproportionally criticized a sports car for non sports car priorities (bad back seat, cheap interior, lack of safety tech). Context matters
Blind spot monitoring and parking sensors (which the automatic has) would be nice, but it’s not really a necessity. Toyota & Subaru had to cut cost somehow to keep this car affordable, the base model being 27,500 USD, and the Premium being 30,500 is already cheaper than most sports cars of it’s class for current times.
Yeah but to think those features are standard on an Automatic model which only costs 2 grand more, I would happily pay the extra to have the safety features.
idk, I got blind spot monitoring on my manual BRZ (the side mirrors have the light when a car is in my blind spot). I also have reverse parking camera so can see where I'm reversing (and it shows excellent angle and you can see the back and sides of the car, so you will never hit anything if you look). Maybe it's different for different markets though, I'm in Australia and all model BRZ's have these features. The auto then get the eyesight features.
These things are certainly not a deal breaker for me either. I have put a lot of city miles on both a Honda and Toyota with the autonomous braking systems and I personally never found them to be of much use. For one thing I got a lot of false alarms when the car was actually not going to hit anything. For example, if a narrow residential road has a sharp bend in it the systems might think you are not going to turn with the bend and therefore are about to hit a parked car. Secondly, it did not activate on two occasions where it really should have when a pedestrian darted out in front of me. But even when the alarm does come on for a valid reason I was always able to hit the brakes long before they activated automatically. So, unless your are driving with headphone on playing your music at full volume, or you have the reaction speed of a turtle, the alarm itself should be sufficient. Of course,I guess it would be handy should you fall asleep behind the wheel. That being said I do sometimes wish other drivers had these things in the past, like the guy who back into me in a parking lot once. I also often wished that my 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 had blind spot monitoring. That is the only car I have even owned in which I almost changed lanes into other people. And after it happened a few times I realized that if you are tall like I am your head is so close to the very wide B-pillar that even when looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot there is still a blind area that you cannot see. With 99% of the vehicles out there however as long as you are checking your blind spot like you are supposed to you are not going to change lanes over anyone.
At least in North America the 24 manual models now come with eyesight lane keep/precollision. Blind spot was available for us on both manual and auto models in prior years. Also a back up camera should be more than enough for a small car like this given it has good visibility among other coupes.
I must be the only person that loves the safety bullshit is not on the manual. It means I can buy a brand new old school car, infact I am pissed that the guage cluster has lost the analogue tach, Should have kept it like the 911, cost cutting? The whinge about the back seat is just silly, everyone knows its just a great space to put things, what else would you put there? Do you chew out a 911 aswell? You flip down the back seat and its massive. Plenty for a weekend.
People who buy these cars buy them because they DON’T want any of these assists on. We want to be in complete control of the car. I hate all that lane detection and adaptive cruise control. Cars are for driving…all that tech just takes away from the driving experience.
A lot of safety tech just doesn't work with a manual transmission so no loss there. I find driving an automatic makes me more comfortable with bad driving habits hence the need to safety tech. If I am driving my manual car, driving sloppy and stupid is just not as easy to do and in fact, can be a lot more work so I just drive well. Period.
I just love the fact that the manual car does not include all of those horrible, so called driver aids that ruin the experience of actually driving a car. I do not want lane departure which on my BMW is downright dangerous, or bloody radar controlled cruise control, I have eyes and can see the car in front!
Safety technology is for people that don't know how to drive, and who buys a performance car that can't drive? So this old lady boy doing this review should buy a prius.
Here in the states the premium model gets blind spot monitoring by way of an orange light on the side mirrors - even in the manual. To me that's the only modern safety feature I actually like, as the rear visibility isn't the best. As for the backup camera not having any proximity sensors - maybe it's because the gr86 is the first car I've owned with any type of backup aides - if you have a camera you really don't need the beeping sensors. What makes the car great is it's relatively analog design with only the bare minimum of modern tech to make it livable.
You might tailor your reviews to the type of car it is. Think most people looking at this car aren’t looking for a car that drives for them or has 5 drive modes. This is about the purity & fun of driving. I tried a tech loaded car just to see which features I liked. Then I got the BRZ manual since heated seats, blind spot warning and CarPlay were the essentials. Any more dilutes the experience of lightweight rwd sports car. Seats down means grocery trips are easy. Might mention the 86 is more tail happy and BRZ has more comfortable ride in case either matters to buyer
its annoying as sh!t to constantly disable the engine stop at idle , the lane sensors , and the anti slip/traction safety crap on my VW every friggen time I start the car. Its soooo annoying. Finally a car without all that. Every time I mean every time - its like a routine that takes less than 30 seconds but its annoying so I'm happy to hear the Gr86 doesn't have it. I'm looking at 22 Mazda Miata or 23 BRZ/GR86. Sounds like BRZ is cheaper by $3K here in Canada.
USA GR 86 models ALL have blind spot warning. Premium (GTS) and 10th Anniversary also have the active safety options - lane departure, pre-collision braking, active cruise, etc. This is true for manual transmission as well as automatic. Don't know why the right hand drive manual transmission models were denied these features.
I feel like you're beating on this car for price and safety tech compared to brz rather than focusing on what it's like to drive (which is the whole point).
Half the video is how it drives, and it’s great. Doesn’t take away from the fact Subaru / Toyota are cost saving hard and removing basic features for a 2023 car. And I’m comparing it the BRZ because it’s the same car for less money and more inclusions. Wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t
Your question should be.... Why Toyota do you remove safety gear on the manual? When Subaru will sell you the same car cheaper and with the safely gear....🤑
Secretly hoping this car won't be that good because here in the UK they've limited sales to next to nothing. Don't really know why the morons in charge here disallow cool cars like this but at the same time allow infinite gas guzzling SUVs
Complaining about the lack of driver assist technology in this car is like complaining that your local steakhouse doesn't have a toothpaste section. Completely irrelevant to the purpose of the car. And before you say it- the automatic shouldn't have the tech either.
I cancalled my GR86 after finding out how much they wanted for base and st8 to Subaru BRZ, not sure if I care about the safety features most of them are annoying and I would turn them off. At 43k out the door BRZ is crazy good value Will have mine by March can not wait
I ordered the GR86 because the BRZ is not sold in Europe. And yes, the lack of safety options in the manual is staggering. I really don't understand that. However, I can live with it, not a deal breaker for me. I want a driver's car.
I chose BRZ as it is built & put together at the Subaru factory here in America. Plus I got it at MSRP while Toyota added 2k mark up. Absolutely in love would buy again if anything happens.
Pretty much everybody I've seen likes the looks of the new model rather than the old. In fact, I've never seen ANYONE who thinks the old car looks better. Strange.
Why is everyone taking the piss out of the guy mentioning that a lack of what’s generally regarded as standard safety features in an objectively overpriced car is a bit disappointing? No, everyone doesn’t necessarily need this stuff in their small form factor sports car. But keeping yourself and everyone else that much safer on the road is a fat W.
For what the car is, it’s far from over priced, if you’re factoring dealer markups, sure. This car was kept down in price and adjusted to inflation so young drivers can still experience spirited driving in a modern day vehicle based off the formula that was the foundation for 90’s golden era sports cars.
They added fake engine sound from the speakers. They used to have pipe from the engine bay that entered the cabin for engine noise, but they decided to remove it. Can you cancel the fake sound? What will be your impression from the real engine sound?
@Yaron Valach I haven't really heard it without the pumped in sound, but since it's a boxer, I'm assuming it has a low-ish rumble. I *think* I heard it once, and it doesn't sound half bad.
Lmao. I have never owned a car with this active safety stuff and I have never considered needing it. If that's the sad flaw then surrender your license at your local DMV. BRZ manual for me though since I drive long distances regularly and the suspension is supposed to be better for that.
The auto is actually pretty good. Especially if u live in cities like LA. I have one and its great. The backseats are fine, they decrease the insurance price and i have my cousins/friends in the back seats for a needed short trip
Blind spot monitoring and lane assist are for lame people who do not know how to drive. I do this really cool thing when I drive It's called paying attention.
This must be a non-Us model thing.The BRZ is $200 diff here, and they are specd the same. I have. GR 86premium , and it has blind spot monitoring, but does lose most safety gear you mentioned. The suspension is different, the throttle mapping is different, and a couple of appearance items. My son has a BRZ limited on order and we discussed a lot about these cars. It came down to preferences really, as in The US at least, you don’t really get more on either car,and the price diff here is nothing , and it’s reversed. The GR 86 is $265 less than the BRZ
@@boldcitycc the brz is the cheapest and best specced manual (both bottom and top specs) in the world by currency conversion. Toyota Australia increased the price of the manual to the price of the auto for our gr86. ☹️
@@hsv215i no??? The base gr86 and the base brz are fairly comparable… both are cloth seats, both get the primacy tires, neither have heated seats, or the nicer sound system, it’s almost the same thing. You actually get more on the premium 86 vs brz because you get that duckbill lol
true, here in norway the 86 is way pricier than the mx-5. the manual 86 costs 729.000NOK(71,5k usd) meanwhile the top trim hardtop mx-5 costs 526.600NOK(51k usd). not a particularily good value.
Y’all r corny af goddamn. Secondly, ur saying to buy the brz cus it’s better specked when u haven’t driven it. The gr86 has a better suspension system that has significantly less under steer and a better power delivery because of how Toyota tuned it.
Depends on the roads you have. In my state in America roads are rough. I test drove both and needed a more compliant drive. After a few mods will want a ecu tune on either car. I wouldn’t say one or other is huge difference. Pick by looks you prefer, roads you drive and dealership service.
You said you pay 2k more for the auto. You don't. They are the same price. They just increased the price of the manual, and don't give you the safety stuff. ☹️
Picked up my new GTS GR 86 just recently. One big let down was no satellite navigation. Apple car play is great but listen Toyota engineers…..phone maps don’t work when out of mobile range which is very frequent where I drive. I had sat nav in my previous 2017 86 so very disappointed that this one very handy feature was left off the list in the upgrade. Also no spare wheel.
If you take a 75kg driver doing the test, sub 6 is possible, it’s not exactly fair testing times with 2 large guys in the front seats, the power to weight ratio is utterly destroyed.
I’m taking a guess at 90kg for the driver and 85 kg for your passenger, 175kg is 100kg more to shift than ideal, 8% of the cars weight, 8% slower than what’s possible.
If safety tech is available it should be on the car. It's not a matter of an individual driver 'needing' it on a day to day basis. It's an extra line of defence when things go wrong unexpectedly. Which can happen to anyone, considering how many professional drivers have been killed in car accidents on public roads. Having owned the previous 86, visibility is limited and it's not hard to get messy in the wet if you're not being careful. Considering that, the price of the car and that a large number of people buy it for the sport styling rather than the driving, there should be more. As what is essentially a Subaru product, it's probably hamstrung by the limitations of the eyesight system. My last car was a manual WRX and I found it below par. My parents just got rid of their 2021 Forester primarily because of the Subaru safety systems which are intrusive and poorly calibrated. My 2020 Golf R has all the same systems, but they're a thousand times better integrated.
Love your review and point of view. As for safety driving features that are on automatic and not on the manual.... The manual..you are buying the last generation of sports/drift cars for a lower income generation to keep the future alive. IMO. So...safety driving features are counterproductive.
Descent review, but too laid back for my taste. 13:27-no ya bushwanker, your limp wristed motion described an "opposed" engine. Boxer goes the other way, like your Mom : ) Plus flat "plane" crankshaft. DS4 (aka dual injectors keeps intake valves clean. DI engine design`s major flaw, but easily fixable with a catch can). 14:52 fist me good-FUCKIN funny brah! 18:06 NO THEY ARENT! 19:17 I think low end torque is extremely impressive, mine (no mods) fades out about 5500rpm.
Please check Misha charoudin's review. Somebody that brings the car to a proper circuit. Somebody who actually knows how to drive and is VERY familiar with all sorts of sports cars. See what he has to say about this car in terms of performance. To review a car based on back seats or other things discussed in this video is not fair or informative... I hope the best to you and your channel though 👍
I got the Elantra N over the 86. All the 86 has going for itself is a lightweight RWD M/T sports car, which sounds ideal, but I don't wanna be dealing with the silicone problem people are reporting to have. It would've been a nearly perfect idea of a sports car if it didn't have that trash for a motor. What's funny is that boxer engines themselves are actually really good. Look at porche with their flat 4s and 6s. I'm honestly convinced that Subaru just doesn't know how to make engines.
The RTV issue has been totally blown out of proportion. It's been "seen" in the pickup tube on more than a few cars, but the design of the pickup keeps it from limiting oil supply. This has not actually killed many engines if any. The only people who have blown engines have been on the track as far as I can find. Who knows what the actual problem there is, but even that has been an incredibly low number of issues. Enjoy your Elantra N though, they are really fun little cars.
The engine is fine. Makes good power to redline and revs out nicely. Take out the fake engine fuse and it's just fine. These guys want a toyota sports car to be as isolated as a Toyota Camry. Which is a total load of crap. Such a weird review. They don't like the parts that make it a sports car.
the worst thing about this model 86 is the stupidly too big Subaru boxer engine... they should have put a updated 2ZZ-GE 1.8L Yamaha tuned with a hybrid to assist on it ... which Toyoda had said the 86 was going to go Hybrid but then it didn't so it sucks and I refuse to buy it when the ZZT231 is so much better than a 86 in every way that matters
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Sorry but if you need active lane control , you should give your license back ……
I agree 100%… I specifically bought the GR86 BECAUSE it lacked all of those ‘safety features’ that take control out of your hands and put it in the hands of a computer. Want a car that will keep you in lane and from bumping into other cars get a Tesla 🤣
@@Graceless I just got a new 300 Landcruiser but the first thing you have to do is disconnect the lane keep I can not find how to disconnect permanently. Very frustrating.
Totally agree, I can’t stand the features as they bug the life out of you, it’s simplicity is it’s best feature, just like a E30 M3, light, simple and quick enough
Or back up and forward sensors on a tiny car. Weird takes here.
Here in Western US you need to drive 40-60 miles stretches regularly just to get to the fun roads. Adaptive Cruise Control is amazing for our traffic conditions and long stretches. No one has fun driving a little car on a highway, better to just set it in Cruise and let the car handle the nonsense.
Active safety is for people that really shouldn't be driving. Plus who buys a sports car for safety?
Just consider guys that the 0-60mph time could just be slightly effected by the extra 250kgs of ballast caused by you to 2 clowns!
You don't get the point of this car at all. All the things you don't like this car is the REASON this car is so good.
it's literally why I'm most interested in the GR. These guys are jaggoffs and completely miss the entire point of this car.
If you buy a GR 86 in manual, you shouldn't "need" any of that assistance technology. If you can't steer a car between 2 white lines and put the brakes on without shunting the car in front of you, go and surrender your license because you shouldn't be driving. I find all this "assistance" technology annoying, I don't need it and turn or configure it all off as much as possible. For me in a car like this, the more basic, the better.
I wouldn't buy it because it doesn't have self-drive.
All these modern assistant techs cause serious reliability issues, and most of them you don't even need. When electrical parts in your car fail, you can't fix it without having an expensive diagnosis system that can recalibrate and adaptations
You guys are the reason car prices keep going up. Just give me a basic car that drives good. Screw backup sensors
I hate to break it to you but when you account for inflation cars today are actually not much more expensive than they were when I started driving back in the late 70’s. For example, the price of a brand new Datsun 240Z in 1970 was the equivalent of about $23,000 in today’s money. And it’s the same story with the 1980 Mazda RX-7. These were both lauded at the time for being fantastic inexpensive sports cars - much like the GR86 is considered to be today. But even though we are paying about the same for cars these days when you account for inflation, we are getting SO MUCH more now. Cars these days will not only last 3 times longer but they handle better right from the factory then anything we could have dreamt of back then - even the 240Z kind of handled like shit in stock form compared to today’s cars. They also get much more power per liter of displacement than ever before. Not to mention the amazing safety features and entertainment systems. Basically we are getting ten times the car for about 25% more money. Frankly I’m amazed that cars are so much better today without costing that much more than the cars that were around when I was a teenager.
@@SLOBeachboy that’s crazy then kuz people used to be able to afford cars and houses. Now I gotta work 2 jobs just to afford a car, and will likely never get to own a home.
@@SLOBeachboyAverage salary in the US is around $60k a year, the average price of a new car is $65k. That is not normal
@@Mxkuh- Nobody is saying that both new and used car prices are not at an all-time high right now. We all know that they are. And we also know that they are about 25% more than pre-pandemic prices just a few years ago. Still it always cracks me up when people say that new cars are no longer “affordable” because the truth is that they have technically never been affordable for the majority of people who buy them so there is no reason to suddenly start whining about it now. In other words, even 30 or 40 years ago there were many people who stupidly bought new cars even though this would mean making car payments that amounted to more than 15% of their monthly income.
By the way, the median income in the USA in 2022 was actually around $75,000 (has gone up since then) and the current average new car cost is around $45,000 (average between the low-priced models and the high-end models). In 1970 on the other hand the median income in the USA was around $9500 and the average new car price was around $3,500. This means that the average new car price was about 37% of the median income back then and now its 58% which is obviously a big jump. Of course, comparing a car from 1970 to a modern car is kind of like comparing the GPS navigation system on your phone to an old magnetic compass and paper map. Modern cars not only last 3 times longer but they are infinitely better in every conceivable way.
But none of this really matters. The real problem is that people today feel they are entitled to own a brand-new car and therefore they think that new cars - even midrange new cars - should be “affordable” for them. Of course, purchasing a brand-new car has always been an idiotic move from a financial perspective. Financially savvy people with lots of money rarely ever buy new cars because they would never put money into a depreciating “asset”. In fact, it is mostly mid to low-income people who buy brand new cars. And I cannot even count the number of minimum wage employees I know of who stupidly purchased a brand-new car for themselves in the past few years. I have personally always bought used cars myself, although a few years ago I sold all my cars before moving overseas to retire. One of these cars I bought for $14,000 back in 2000 when it was 7 years old and I sold it for $35,000 20 years later. Anyway 6 months ago I decided to move back to California, and I immediately picked up a 2011 Honda CR-Z with a manual transmission for $3000 and I spent an additional $2000 for a new paint job. So now I have a very reliable and nice-looking car for $5000 that will probably last me for another ten years (seems affordable to me). And since it would not make sense to have full coverage on a car that is only worth $5000 my car insurance is only about $500 a year. Why would I spend $40,000 on a new car that might only be worth less than half that amount in ten years? I don’t know about you but I cannot afford to flush $20,000 down the toilet just so that I can feel good about myself because I am driving a new car.
The lack of all the tech and safety nannies is the entire reason people want this car. Subaru\toyota know that. A real enthusiast is going to get the manual. A real enthusiast doesnt want any of that garbage. Anyone shopping the automatic version is already making a huge sacrifice and is likely a very vanilla driver\owner anyways. Let them have their babysitters running in the background.
Absolutely, I am loving the fact the manual as all this garbage gone.
Spot on
I was never taught manual so I can't afford to buy a car in manual if I can't drive it, I'm still an enthusiast. Took my juke canyon carving and ending up racing a challenger down. Let people enjoy their cars despite what trans they got
Of all the things listed, the one thing I really would like on this car are parking sensors. Visibility is not great and a distorted (fisheye) camera view isn't exactly something I'd rely on.
That is just added weight. These cars intentionally skimp back on all the unnecessary odds n ends. That is why I love it. Even on cars that have sensors 360 cameras and all that which I own, I dont use it. As a heavy equipment operator all I need are mirrors.
The manual and the automatic are marketed toward different types of buyers and are equipped accordingly. It's smart.
do you... really need active safety? ive never thought of it as something that i *need*, and one of the reasons that this car is appealing (in manual) is that it has none of that stuff. it all seems like a huge pain more than anything
Saying that the lack of e.g. lane departure alerts is a deal breaker doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in your driving ability.
The Toyota has different suspension set up and the cost diff w the Subaru is not material. This review stinks. Disproportionally criticized a sports car for non sports car priorities (bad back seat, cheap interior, lack of safety tech). Context matters
Blind spot monitoring and parking sensors (which the automatic has) would be nice, but it’s not really a necessity. Toyota & Subaru had to cut cost somehow to keep this car affordable, the base model being 27,500 USD, and the Premium being 30,500 is already cheaper than most sports cars of it’s class for current times.
Yeah but to think those features are standard on an Automatic model which only costs 2 grand more, I would happily pay the extra to have the safety features.
idk, I got blind spot monitoring on my manual BRZ (the side mirrors have the light when a car is in my blind spot). I also have reverse parking camera so can see where I'm reversing (and it shows excellent angle and you can see the back and sides of the car, so you will never hit anything if you look). Maybe it's different for different markets though, I'm in Australia and all model BRZ's have these features. The auto then get the eyesight features.
These things are certainly not a deal breaker for me either. I have put a lot of city miles on both a Honda and Toyota with the autonomous braking systems and I personally never found them to be of much use. For one thing I got a lot of false alarms when the car was actually not going to hit anything. For example, if a narrow residential road has a sharp bend in it the systems might think you are not going to turn with the bend and therefore are about to hit a parked car. Secondly, it did not activate on two occasions where it really should have when a pedestrian darted out in front of me. But even when the alarm does come on for a valid reason I was always able to hit the brakes long before they activated automatically. So, unless your are driving with headphone on playing your music at full volume, or you have the reaction speed of a turtle, the alarm itself should be sufficient. Of course,I guess it would be handy should you fall asleep behind the wheel. That being said I do sometimes wish other drivers had these things in the past, like the guy who back into me in a parking lot once. I also often wished that my 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 had blind spot monitoring. That is the only car I have even owned in which I almost changed lanes into other people. And after it happened a few times I realized that if you are tall like I am your head is so close to the very wide B-pillar that even when looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot there is still a blind area that you cannot see. With 99% of the vehicles out there however as long as you are checking your blind spot like you are supposed to you are not going to change lanes over anyone.
At least in North America the 24 manual models now come with eyesight lane keep/precollision. Blind spot was available for us on both manual and auto models in prior years. Also a back up camera should be more than enough for a small car like this given it has good visibility among other coupes.
Never felt the need to comment on a video but I don’t think you should be reviewing enthusiast cars bud
Totally agree
Entirely agree
I must be the only person that loves the safety bullshit is not on the manual. It means I can buy a brand new old school car, infact I am pissed that the guage cluster has lost the analogue tach, Should have kept it like the 911, cost cutting? The whinge about the back seat is just silly, everyone knows its just a great space to put things, what else would you put there? Do you chew out a 911 aswell? You flip down the back seat and its massive. Plenty for a weekend.
I bought this car because I didn’t want all of the stupid safety stuff.
People who buy these cars buy them because they DON’T want any of these assists on. We want to be in complete control of the car. I hate all that lane detection and adaptive cruise control. Cars are for driving…all that tech just takes away from the driving experience.
I'm glad it has less safety rubbish..
A lot of safety tech just doesn't work with a manual transmission so no loss there. I find driving an automatic makes me more comfortable with bad driving habits hence the need to safety tech. If I am driving my manual car, driving sloppy and stupid is just not as easy to do and in fact, can be a lot more work so I just drive well. Period.
Note: CarSauce did not understand the concept of the GR86. You are not a hater, thats for sure. But you do not understand the car concept :D
I just love the fact that the manual car does not include all of those horrible, so called driver aids that ruin the experience of actually driving a car. I do not want lane departure which on my BMW is downright dangerous, or bloody radar controlled cruise control, I have eyes and can see the car in front!
Speaking of game changing, those girl shorts are...lol
Safety technology is for people that don't know how to drive, and who buys a performance car that can't drive? So this old lady boy doing this review should buy a prius.
Here in the states the premium model gets blind spot monitoring by way of an orange light on the side mirrors - even in the manual. To me that's the only modern safety feature I actually like, as the rear visibility isn't the best. As for the backup camera not having any proximity sensors - maybe it's because the gr86 is the first car I've owned with any type of backup aides - if you have a camera you really don't need the beeping sensors. What makes the car great is it's relatively analog design with only the bare minimum of modern tech to make it livable.
The manual BRZ in Australia gets blind spot monitoring.
The premium manual does come with blind spot monitor, and adaptive cruise control. I just drove one yesterday
A sports car might not be for you.
You might tailor your reviews to the type of car it is. Think most people looking at this car aren’t looking for a car that drives for them or has 5 drive modes. This is about the purity & fun of driving. I tried a tech loaded car just to see which features I liked. Then I got the BRZ manual since heated seats, blind spot warning and CarPlay were the essentials. Any more dilutes the experience of lightweight rwd sports car.
Seats down means grocery trips are easy.
Might mention the 86 is more tail happy and BRZ has more comfortable ride in case either matters to buyer
its annoying as sh!t to constantly disable the engine stop at idle , the lane sensors , and the anti slip/traction safety crap on my VW every friggen time I start the car. Its soooo annoying. Finally a car without all that. Every time I mean every time - its like a routine that takes less than 30 seconds but its annoying so I'm happy to hear the Gr86 doesn't have it. I'm looking at 22 Mazda Miata or 23 BRZ/GR86. Sounds like BRZ is cheaper by $3K here in Canada.
100% agree plus consistent handling vs drive modes. Can’t go wrong with those options.
USA GR 86 models ALL have blind spot warning. Premium (GTS) and 10th Anniversary also have the active safety options - lane departure, pre-collision braking, active cruise, etc. This is true for manual transmission as well as automatic. Don't know why the right hand drive manual transmission models were denied these features.
Worst review I've seen so far
I feel like you're beating on this car for price and safety tech compared to brz rather than focusing on what it's like to drive (which is the whole point).
Disagree it should have the full suit of safety gear
Half the video is how it drives, and it’s great. Doesn’t take away from the fact Subaru / Toyota are cost saving hard and removing basic features for a 2023 car. And I’m comparing it the BRZ because it’s the same car for less money and more inclusions. Wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t
Your question should be....
Why Toyota do you remove safety gear on the manual? When Subaru will sell you the same car cheaper and with the safely gear....🤑
If you want all those safety future then I suggest you should just drive an self driving Tesla or better yet Uber, or a bus.
Secretly hoping this car won't be that good because here in the UK they've limited sales to next to nothing. Don't really know why the morons in charge here disallow cool cars like this but at the same time allow infinite gas guzzling SUVs
Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 1 year into ownership. It's fantastic.
This car is fan flipping tastic. Wish they'd sell more.
Complaining about the lack of driver assist technology in this car is like complaining that your local steakhouse doesn't have a toothpaste section. Completely irrelevant to the purpose of the car. And before you say it- the automatic shouldn't have the tech either.
Would you buy this or the BRZ? and how do you feel about all the missing features with the Manual?..
I cancalled my GR86 after finding out how much they wanted for base and st8 to Subaru BRZ, not sure if I care about the safety features most of them are annoying and I would turn them off. At 43k out the door BRZ is crazy good value
Will have mine by March can not wait
I ordered the GR86 because the BRZ is not sold in Europe. And yes, the lack of safety options in the manual is staggering. I really don't understand that. However, I can live with it, not a deal breaker for me. I want a driver's car.
Buy GR Yaris simple.
Love mine.
Has all the tech plus only a small price increase.
I chose BRZ as it is built & put together at the Subaru factory here in America. Plus I got it at MSRP while Toyota added 2k mark up.
Absolutely in love would buy again if anything happens.
There not made or assembled in America. Both are made in same factory in Japan. Which most would see as a good thing
Is rtv still an issue for the 2023 model?
I need to know : is the fake engine noise on the driver side ?
Small speaker that is easily disconnected. In America it on passenger side. TH-cam videos how to disable
Options totally depend on the location. In Belgium you get the rear sensors on the Sport version, not on the base model
Pretty much everybody I've seen likes the looks of the new model rather than the old. In fact, I've never seen ANYONE who thinks the old car looks better. Strange.
Same I feel the older one never look good stock unless it's lower with body kits and wing.
Why is everyone taking the piss out of the guy mentioning that a lack of what’s generally regarded as standard safety features in an objectively overpriced car is a bit disappointing? No, everyone doesn’t necessarily need this stuff in their small form factor sports car. But keeping yourself and everyone else that much safer on the road is a fat W.
For what the car is, it’s far from over priced, if you’re factoring dealer markups, sure. This car was kept down in price and adjusted to inflation so young drivers can still experience spirited driving in a modern day vehicle based off the formula that was the foundation for 90’s golden era sports cars.
you guys are smiling driving the car during the whole video
On the used Market a manual base model brings more than a premium automatic model
they dont come pilot sport 4S FYI they are Pilot sport 4.
They added fake engine sound from the speakers. They used to have pipe from the engine bay that entered the cabin for engine noise, but they decided to remove it.
Can you cancel the fake sound? What will be your impression from the real engine sound?
You can remove it by taking off a little side panel from the dashboard to the right. Inside, there's a little sound box thing that you can disconnect.
@@lawnmower6591 What about the engine sound then, how good is it?
@Yaron Valach I haven't really heard it without the pumped in sound, but since it's a boxer, I'm assuming it has a low-ish rumble. I *think* I heard it once, and it doesn't sound half bad.
@@yaronvalach859 without fake sound it still sounds better than old gt86 engine. Sound smoother now
@@yaronvalach859 Sounds pretty crap, but get a cat back exhaust and it will fix it.
Toyota front end looks better than BRZ
100% agree and the resale value of the Toyota will always be higher too..
Eye of Beholder… I chose BRZ as I think Toyota grill is frowning catfish. To each their own
Lmao. I have never owned a car with this active safety stuff and I have never considered needing it. If that's the sad flaw then surrender your license at your local DMV.
BRZ manual for me though since I drive long distances regularly and the suspension is supposed to be better for that.
The roads are rough where I live. The BRZ soaks up the bumps better than the 86 or my wife’s SUV. I don’t fatigue in it either. So great choice enjoy!
The auto is actually pretty good. Especially if u live in cities like LA. I have one and its great. The backseats are fine, they decrease the insurance price and i have my cousins/friends in the back seats for a needed short trip
Couple nerds waving hands . Next
If you need the nannies, you shouldnt be driving! Maybe he needs the cvt prius.
Blind spot monitoring and lane assist are for lame people who do not know how to drive. I do this really cool thing when I drive It's called paying attention.
VERY poor launch lmfao
The safety features just convinced me to go with the BRZ.
This must be a non-Us model thing.The BRZ is $200 diff here, and they are specd the same. I have. GR 86premium , and it has blind spot monitoring, but does lose most safety gear you mentioned. The suspension is different, the throttle mapping is different, and a couple of appearance items. My son has a BRZ limited on order and we discussed a lot about these cars. It came down to preferences really, as in The US at least, you don’t really get more on either car,and the price diff here is nothing , and it’s reversed. The GR 86 is $265 less than the BRZ
@@boldcitycc the brz is the cheapest and best specced manual (both bottom and top specs) in the world by currency conversion. Toyota Australia increased the price of the manual to the price of the auto for our gr86. ☹️
@@hsv215i no??? The base gr86 and the base brz are fairly comparable… both are cloth seats, both get the primacy tires, neither have heated seats, or the nicer sound system, it’s almost the same thing. You actually get more on the premium 86 vs brz because you get that duckbill lol
There is only manual/auto for NZ and they start at $57K. Same price as the top and only model Mx5. Getting expensive for what they are.
true, here in norway the 86 is way pricier than the mx-5. the manual 86 costs 729.000NOK(71,5k usd) meanwhile the top trim hardtop mx-5 costs 526.600NOK(51k usd). not a particularily good value.
Guys I don’t think you’re understanding…THE BRZ IS BETTER BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER AND COMES WITH MORE TECH despite being basically the same car.
Y’all r corny af goddamn. Secondly, ur saying to buy the brz cus it’s better specked when u haven’t driven it. The gr86 has a better suspension system that has significantly less under steer and a better power delivery because of how Toyota tuned it.
Toyota handles better, looks better and resale value will be better too..
Depends on the roads you have. In my state in America roads are rough. I test drove both and needed a more compliant drive. After a few mods will want a ecu tune on either car.
I wouldn’t say one or other is huge difference. Pick by looks you prefer, roads you drive and dealership service.
4 not 4s tires 🤦🏻♂️
You said you pay 2k more for the auto. You don't. They are the same price. They just increased the price of the manual, and don't give you the safety stuff. ☹️
The manual gts comes with blind spot and rear cross traffic
Or get the cheaper base model BRZ with those features too
Gr86 owners are shaking
the issue isnt the car. Its the horrible pricing in your country. Ripoff.
The 2023 gr86 manual will come standart with all the active safety features
I am waiting for your review for the Toyota RAV4 hybrid. Excited 🎉🎉
$34K!!!! A Top trim Mazdaspeed 3 was less than 30k back in the day.....Geeze!
Picked up my new GTS GR 86 just recently. One big let down was no satellite navigation. Apple car play is great but listen Toyota engineers…..phone maps don’t work when out of mobile range which is very frequent where I drive. I had sat nav in my previous 2017 86 so very disappointed that this one very handy feature was left off the list in the upgrade. Also no spare wheel.
Boxer engine pistons go out they do not go in……
Biggest flaw of this car is the OEM differential it is so unstable and trash at the limit.
It will do 6 seconds with a clutch dump and faster shifting, not that you would in a new car.
It can do better. My best was 5.6 seconds and Caranddriver got 5.4 seconds.
If you take a 75kg driver doing the test, sub 6 is possible, it’s not exactly fair testing times with 2 large guys in the front seats, the power to weight ratio is utterly destroyed.
I’m taking a guess at 90kg for the driver and 85 kg for your passenger, 175kg is 100kg more to shift than ideal, 8% of the cars weight, 8% slower than what’s possible.
@@johnybigarms That's a very good point. I am 43.5 kg so that is why I can get under 6 consistently
If safety tech is available it should be on the car. It's not a matter of an individual driver 'needing' it on a day to day basis. It's an extra line of defence when things go wrong unexpectedly. Which can happen to anyone, considering how many professional drivers have been killed in car accidents on public roads.
Having owned the previous 86, visibility is limited and it's not hard to get messy in the wet if you're not being careful. Considering that, the price of the car and that a large number of people buy it for the sport styling rather than the driving, there should be more.
As what is essentially a Subaru product, it's probably hamstrung by the limitations of the eyesight system. My last car was a manual WRX and I found it below par. My parents just got rid of their 2021 Forester primarily because of the Subaru safety systems which are intrusive and poorly calibrated. My 2020 Golf R has all the same systems, but they're a thousand times better integrated.
Doing 0-100 times with two non japense specd humans.. come on now boys...
Fact check… the MX-5 has 2 cup holders… cough cough…
Fair but does it have 4?
@@CarSauce If you had 4 in a 2 seater, you would have a serious drinking problem ;)
Love your review and point of view.
As for safety driving features that are on automatic and not on the manual....
The manual..you are buying the last generation of sports/drift cars for a lower income generation to keep the future alive. IMO. So...safety driving features are counterproductive.
On the track, those safety systems could be a pain in the ass. Keep it optional.
In Sweden they cost 57,000 aud. Want one but not worth the current asking price
Cape S. has awesome roads to have fun
Fist me
Fist me Hard 15.12
Were both in the D&D club at Grammar perhaps? Looks like Red Hill?
Lovely campy review but you have sold me on buying one!
soy safety feature guy
Descent review, but too laid back for my taste. 13:27-no ya bushwanker, your limp wristed motion described an "opposed" engine. Boxer goes the other way, like your Mom : ) Plus flat "plane" crankshaft. DS4 (aka dual injectors keeps intake valves clean. DI engine design`s major flaw, but easily fixable with a catch can). 14:52 fist me good-FUCKIN funny brah! 18:06 NO THEY ARENT! 19:17 I think low end torque is extremely impressive, mine (no mods) fades out about 5500rpm.
Please check Misha charoudin's review. Somebody that brings the car to a proper circuit. Somebody who actually knows how to drive and is VERY familiar with all sorts of sports cars. See what he has to say about this car in terms of performance. To review a car based on back seats or other things discussed in this video is not fair or informative... I hope the best to you and your channel though 👍
Good review guys. I don't know why Subaru doesn't put this engine in the naturally aspirated Outback. More power than the 2.5.
Torque. and fuel economy. actually fuel economy for the most part.
They replace it with 1.8t with even more torque.
Because this engine has Toyota's injection system in it, among other things. Wouldn't be able to do it without Toyota's permission.
the new price is a massive rip off scam
how is it worth $20k more than the original 2012 86 model
I got the Elantra N over the 86. All the 86 has going for itself is a lightweight RWD M/T sports car, which sounds ideal, but I don't wanna be dealing with the silicone problem people are reporting to have. It would've been a nearly perfect idea of a sports car if it didn't have that trash for a motor. What's funny is that boxer engines themselves are actually really good. Look at porche with their flat 4s and 6s. I'm honestly convinced that Subaru just doesn't know how to make engines.
The RTV issue has been totally blown out of proportion. It's been "seen" in the pickup tube on more than a few cars, but the design of the pickup keeps it from limiting oil supply. This has not actually killed many engines if any. The only people who have blown engines have been on the track as far as I can find. Who knows what the actual problem there is, but even that has been an incredibly low number of issues. Enjoy your Elantra N though, they are really fun little cars.
I’ve only really heard of 1 engine death to RTV plus under warranty. A few others found rtv in oil pan but they reported no more than any other car.
@@TrojanRabbit521 💯
The engine is fine. Makes good power to redline and revs out nicely. Take out the fake engine fuse and it's just fine. These guys want a toyota sports car to be as isolated as a Toyota Camry. Which is a total load of crap.
Such a weird review. They don't like the parts that make it a sports car.
@rishavroy1814 if the engine didn't have ths RTV problems, then maybe. Idk what other major issues it might have, other than the oil starvation.
Cerato gt would give it a good run !! The gt is a good value for money car.
2024 manual comes standard with all the safty features .... toyota handles 20 % better but less ride quality
The price difference is the Toyota tax…
Bro has a few unpopular opinions
So bad you must want a "dislike",,,but since you are not the boss of me..."liked".
Congratulations at missing the point
exactly the last 86 looked better
How small is this car or is he huge 😂
Agree. BRZ better deal, looks better too.
0-100 in 6.9secs. My old 2011 Golf Gti did the same times.
When it wasn't waiting for a flatbed truck?
@@miatand1156 Most reliable car I ever owned - twit
@@hsv215i The GR86 is cheating being 12 years younger
It was carrying over 200kg of lard that couldn't drive for $hit though! ...
@@Mr7letmein Says a guy who thinks a GR86 is some kind of Ferrari. 🤡
Drive it without the fat boy.
Lol winning accolades wow man. So miss informed
Waste of money so over priced
Euro Nerd
Compared to what ? Miata mx5 is more expensive with only 2 seats.
Over priced vs what? Fun factor off the charts is worth every penny.
GR86 with new HKS supercharger @ 300hp will be a performance bargain compared to $60k+++ Porsche Cayman.
I can fit in the back no problem at all since I am not a FAT and too tall bogan like you
it is very roomy back there compared to a MR2 haha
I imagine you have no legs either lol
the worst thing about this model 86 is the stupidly too big Subaru boxer engine...
they should have put a updated 2ZZ-GE 1.8L Yamaha tuned with a hybrid to assist on it ...
which Toyoda had said the 86 was going to go Hybrid but then it didn't so it sucks and I refuse to buy it
when the ZZT231 is so much better than a 86 in every way that matters
I feel bad for the car that had to haul your large butts around...maybe walk somewhere and burn some calories....
This car was hindered by added body fat and poor driving skills 😂 some people do need lane assist and gym memberships ✊