How Good Was Hakeem Olajuwon Actually?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Where does Hakeem rank amongst the greatest centers of all time? We take a look at the life story of Hakeem Olajuwon.
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How Good Was Hakeem Olajuwon Actually? - กีฬา
The Dream!
The greatest Houston Rocket ever?
@@nonstop Of course and it isn't even close.
If he’s not top 3 center ever I don’t wanna hear it!!!!!
My Nigerian brotha😈
@@russellwestbrook1050 you wish
He was picked 1st over Jordan, and no one is complaining. That's how good he was
Well it worked out for the Rockets so even though MJ is better, Hakeem was a great pick as well
@@patrickmatthews8191
One player won a champ without a All-Star and HOFer. The other didn't. Sorry, I'm going with the first pick.
@@thedude3538 Drexler wasn't a hof when they won a chip? Ok
@@Majuuub
1994
@@thedude3538 2 different positions with different skill sets, but both arguably the greatest player for their position, and certainly during their generation. Couldn't go wrong with either so I would go with whatever position the team needed more.
Most skilled center of all time,his footwork was unbelievable
Kareem is better
@@manavsharma5649 no
@@manavsharma5649 Yeah you right Kareem got BETTER TEAMS.
Oh man, I remember those days, waiting for the game 3am in Europe, and going to school just after game finished, just to have a little nap 😁. Houston rockets my teenage years team , still is 👏
Low post 📫scientist!
He was picked ahead of Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley and John Stockton and absolutely nobody considers it to be a mistake.
Nope not a mistake at all , he brought the franchise 2 championships and is the greatest player they even had. Can’t regret that over a Michael Jordan what if
@@onepercentnow
Let's see one player would win a champ without a All-Star or HOFer on the roster. The other didn't.
@@thedude3538 but both would have struggled to get to playoffs either way if not for help
Hakeem made the playoffs because he had a better team in the 80s (with ralph sampson) (nevertheless impressive to have made the finals and not get blown out by Larry Bird and the greatest squad of the decade)
98 was also a impressive carry job on part of MJ, 91 was good as well
@@thedude3538 *One player won 6 titles, the other lost 8 times in the first round and missed the playoffs in his prime.*
Hakeem Olajuwon 8 times lost in the first round.
@@harmanjotsingh4230
Jordan is the leader no doubt. Scottie Pippen averaged more than Jordan in steal ,block, and rebound in the playoffs from 1991-1998. Defense. Jordan had Pippen from the age of 22-32 with only one season where he missed a good portion of the season. 1998 where he played less than 50 games. He played at least 73 games in every other season with MJ. Yet didn't the Bulls had both Toni Kukoc and Dennis Rodman in 1998? They beat the Pacer that had Reggie and Rik. Did they even average over twenty? Who was the Bulls next best opponents after the pacer in the east that year. The Knicks beat the heat without Patrick Ewing in the 1998 playoffs. Dennis Rodman was a very big piece in guarding other power fowards. Like the Jazz. Dennis was also the rebounding champ all three years with the bulls. Go thing Pippen was extremely underpaid. This allowed them to keep both Toni Kukoc and Dennis Rodman.
He was an all time great in my opinion the best center ever skill wise offensively and definitely was unbelievable
for me hes 2 or 3
The best ever
Who u got at #1
@@jleeblackmon5340 Kareem then either bill or hakeem
@@fletchercorey6976 I can get with tht
Hakeem Olajuwon - The only player in NBA history to win MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP IN THE SAME SEASON. If you knew nothing else, that would be enough, but there is so much more.
WITHOUT another Allstars or top 75 player that year
During his sophomore year at the University of Houston, Olajuwon sought advice from the coaching staff about how to increase his playing time, and they advised him to work out with local Houston resident and multiple NBA MVP winner, Moses Malone. Malone, who was then a center on the NBA's Houston Rockets, played games every off season with several NBA players at the Fonde Recreation Center. Olajuwon joined the workouts and went head to head with Malone in several games throughout the summer. Olajuwon credited this experience with rapidly improving his game: "The way Moses helped me is by being out there playing and allowing me to go against that level of competition. He was the best center in the NBA at the time, so I was trying to improve my game against the best."
No doubt Hakeem was very lucky for that experience
Hakeem paid it forward, too. It was under Hakeem’s tutelage that he learned to play in the post, which he’s now developed into emergency center responsibilities
Moses once said for Hakeem : I played him 1 on 1 many times every game we try either 2 days after or 1 week after I beat him, he return with more and more skills every time I see him again. I have never saw NBA player or any sport player who add a new skill or new ability within 15 days from month by month. If I need to describe him as an fast learner - maybe its not correct word he is just born talented U cant learn that fast more and more skills and moves. Looked like he just improving with every single time I try to face him on basketball court and he is not even mature yet. I needed whole decade to improve some of my games, but he is just that talented. (funny thing is : Olajuwon trained Kobe said similar thing for him but never for LeBron bout fast learning and talent)
@@PIP...33
Yeah. Because (contrary to what some wanna believe) Hakeem had his entire basic repertoire by his second season. All that stuff, we saw him do in 93-95, he was doing all of it during the 85-86 seasons, and when it counted/was needed to boot during high pressure games and moments.
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For me he is arguably the best center that ever played basketball! Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon!!! 💪🔥
he played in a roughest and biggest man era. and he was the best out of all of them. that says it all.
Kareem is greater
@@ar2k20 If you watch video of Kareem, you would know he wasn't even close to Hakeem skill wise and light years away defensively. You can't name one single thing Kareem was better that doesn't involve team accolades.
He is the greatest center oat
Agrees! Best two way center of all time.
hakeem olajuman was absolutely ridiculous during their championship years. he was basically like a guard out there, who happened to be 7 feet tall. in today's nba, he'd still fit in like a glove, and something tells me w the 3 ball being such of staple of today's game, he would have perfected that part of his game as well. a true legend.
No. He wouldn't attempt a 3. He would wreck the low post.
@@thecleandon5171 the game back then no centre was attempting 3s. Now a days everyone is and I have no doubt that he would of been able to work on that for it to be one of his weapons. He was a great mid Range shooter.
@@dfern25 nah. He'd wreck the low post. There is no advantage to him shooting 3's. He is a back to the basket guy who can shoot. Play to your strengths. Luc Longly or Bill Wennington would have a team advantage of shooting 3's because they would pull their defender (a shot blocking defender) away from the basket. Therefore, their slashers (Superman, Batman) and rebounders (Grant, Rodman) would have easier time in the paint. Dream is one of the best post players in league history, id bench him if he started chucking 3's. Lol.
He could and did shoot 3's occassionally and was plenty good at them
@@thecleandon5171 Right. Olajuwon was automatic down low.
It's like Kenny Smith said, _we didn't have any designed plays for him, we just dumped it down to Hakeem in the post; if they don't double, it's buckets, and if they do double, he kicks it out for 3, or sometimes just scores on the double team._
This also shows how underrated Moses Malone is
Moses was a beast. He was bigger and stronger than Hakeem and he didn't hold back in practice. Hakeem had learn how to play physical, to the point where Hakeem almost quit playing with him, but it taught him how to be tough. Probably the most important lesson you can learn, getting dominated over and over again by someone better than you that's not holding back, but not giving up.
I think it's also why he was so fucking good at offensive rebounding early in his career, which weirdly kind of faded away after his first few years. I think he just 'lost it' or moved past it as he worked on other aspects of his game.
The greatest center of the 90's & best post moves player
Wish Hakeem and MJ played in the finals against each other in their prime that would of been a great series
Would have
Not really in 94 he’s sweeping jordan and in 95 he’s winning in 5-6
@@StreetDiscipletheGOAT913 that’s a prime jordan averaging over 30 ppg, he does not sweep lmao
@@Erick_0510 yes he is lmfao they let Jordan get his numbers in scoring but made sure they clamped down everyone else Pippen didn’t do his thing neither did anyone else until it was all to late they never beat Hakeem from the moment he got to the rockets until he left
@@StreetDiscipletheGOAT913 no sweep. jordan was 10-13 vs olajuwon.
The fact that he trained players like Kobe, Lebron, Wade and some other recent legends speaks volumes
lebron never learned his footwork and skills tho😂😂😂it shows how hes bad at work ethic. all he does was buldoze defender in transition,dunk layup or pass. thats why he needs a finisher like irving and wade
Hakeem was so good that the rockets didn’t look stupid picking him over Jordan, goat defender and top 7 all time
He’s top 10 not top 7
@@lukadoncic7678 give me you 6 other players then give me the 3 more ppl you’d put ahead of him.. I got 4-5 locks.. other are questionable
@@elitetv1735 if i had to make a top 10 it would be:
10: Tim Duncan
9: Hakeem
8: Bill Russell
7: Larry Bird
6: Kobe Bryant
5: Wilt Chamberlain
4: Magic Johnson
3: Kareem Abdul Jabbar
2: Lebron James
1: Michael Jordan
@@NotDexFlame can't go wrong with the list, either can be the number 1 GOAT and I wouldn't complain. I'll put AI as number 11
I’d honestly agree with 7th, other than Russell he was the best defender ever and he could fit in any era with his athleticism and post shooting.
One of the best of all time and doesn't get enough credit. Unstoppable on offense and all time NBA Blocks leader.
Yep, exactly. Hakeem was a guard in a centers body. He had the dribbling skills, vision, shooting and awareness like a guard on top of his big man skills. I believe he is one of a few old school big men who could still play in todays game.
he played soccer
Hakeem is what got me to basketball as a kid. He'll always be my favorite player.
He is one of the most complete and intelligent player that ever stepped into court. A walking clinic every game. A legend among legends.
As a little boy I vividly remember Hakeem olajuwon I never ever have seen a big man a be able to move with such agility , he moved with such Grace on the court I'm just thankful I got to witness that man play he was something special defensively and offensively he was complete, if only the Houston rockets would have surrounded him with a little bit more talent the man would have had several championships
Shaq was agile and fast. Dream was awesome no disrespect to him. But Shaq was a touch faster to me.
almost like it was a Dream..
Hella underrated
I'm underrate as well
@@Finnyy06 your fake Tom Brady never talks about how good he is
@@kinghotrod2719 did you think that Tom Brady was actually just gonna comment this on a random comment?
@@kinghotrod2719 please shut up
@@Finnyy06 screw Tom Brady
Hakeem actually had two quadruple doubles. After the first game the NBA took a block away for 9 (blocks). The next game Hakeem got another quadruple double. The only other player who did that was Wilt Chamberlain.
It's crazy that he was the first African born player and even if years after, Africa has already produced countless stellar NBA players, Hakeem is still considered the greatest African born player of all time.
Black people are built to play basketball. With their higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers and their longer limbs, it’s no wonder Africans dominate basketball.
no.
He’s the reason I got into basketball. He was unreal to watch
As a lifelong spurs fan, dream gave us lots of headaches. Dude was smooooth af as a big man
Hakeem is the greatest NBA center of all time. That’s it, and that’s all.
When he was in college he spent a whole summer learning moves with Moses Malone, in the last training he did a dunk on Moses, and everyone who saw him said he's ready to play, then he got to be number one in the draft, and In the second half of his career he became the pivot with the best movements in history, as a young man he practiced handball, and that is why he had very good footwork
Hakeem was unreal. So under appreciated
The single most underrated NBA player ever. Destroyed every great centre he played (Shaq,Robinson,Kareem,Ewing)
Kareem was 37 when Hakeem was drafted LMAO
Also Shaq dominated an old Hakeem
@@monkeyholic7918 and? I’m sure if Lebron was schooled by a rookie now we would talk about it
@@monkeyholic7918 Just my opinion but Shaq vs Hakeem both in their prime I think Hakeem would come out on top just because of his skill
@@kianlloyd7009 I’m not saying that Shaq is better, but people always want to take about 86 Kareem but no one wants to talk about how bad Hakeem or shaq or any other great center was when they were close to retirement
Whenever I play ball, I always shoot the dream! Thanks Hakeem
I never see him play, but his highlights proved that he was an absolute beast at his prime. Every Superstar respects him
@Sut Nack underhyped you mean
Proud to be from Houston and to have grown up watching The Dream, Horry, Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Drexler, and all the other greats
Damn i just realized hakeem height and wingspan is exactly the same as kd
Exactly what I thought when I saw 7’6 wingspan
But Hakeem Olajuwon is more athletic than KD.
Hakeem real Height was 6’10 so that’s even more impressive .
Yet Hakeem is a defensive monster. Both guard skilled, which is just insane for their height, but Durant has a 3 ball and is an EVEN BETTER midrange game (which is saying something, Hakeem's midrange was insane).
Of course, Hakeem had better post moves and was a 20x better defender. Who knows, with today's shooting coaching, he'd be shooting 3's like Embiid, as well as more of those midrange pick-and-pops he used even in 90s. He'd also probably have face up rim attacking like Giannis, except with spins and crossovers instead of Eurosteps, with an actual 3 point threat to deter sagging. I won't even mention what he would do to anyone stupid enough to play small ball against him.
In today's era of no illegal defense, where centers are supposed to protect the rim AND switch, Hakeem would be unstoppable on D to the point where you might as well name the award after him. Just imagine, the rim protection of Gobert, the help defense of Giannis, the versatility of Anthony Davis, with the man post defense of Al Horford, except he wouldn't just have the skills of all those players, he'd be EVEN BETTER than them at it.
It'd almost be like cheating, in a League where teams have to choose between traditional centers to protect the rim with perimeter liability and small ball centers to space the floor and lock down the perimeter, having Hakeem would be like having your cake and eating it too, and that's just his D. The game has changed so much it's hard to say what he would do on offense, but if he had a legit 3 ball, he'd probably be the best offensive center in the game too. His simple passing of laydowns and kickouts would work really well with today's shooting too. Post-ups are bad offense for most centers because ez double teams, which is why Jokic is so good because you have to be stupid leave someone open to commit to him. Hakeem's answer to double teams was just spinning his way out of them, it literally wouldn't matter if his vision was weak if he could just escape from doubles to get his kickouts.
@@localneo-graphic4647 Hakeem with today’s training and game knowledge would be INSANE
This is a great video and Hakeem is very underrated
Definitely what I was looking right now!
Best center, embarrassed SHAQ in 95, dominated over Kareem in the 86 playoffs got Patrick in 94 and schooled all other legendary centers. Not to mention his 2 rings with his beautiful footwork and post skills. Edit: This video has some mistakes. Hakeem is 11th not 10th. 10th belongs to Elvin Hayes. It was also said Hakeem started basketball at 17! He had a good jump hook and underrated mid-range, and is the all time leader in shot blocks, 10th steals, and 15th in rebounds.
Don't forget he punished David Robinson in the playoffs and regular season
@@brandenvibez6051 he destroyed him bad in the playoffs. The admiral was the MVP at the time
He dominated a 39 year old Kareem lmao
He dominated a young shaq and an old ass Kareem
@lilcourtny08 he outperformed Robinson. Destroying Robinson is a big stretch. Robinson is just as great as Hakeem. I guess the two had a decisive game on who's the best center between the two. Hakeem had the upper hand. And that's it. Big deal. Hakeem did the same to other bigs. However, we're not talking about Robinson dunking all over Hakeem and blocking him senseless tho. As much Hakeem did Robinson on one play and so is Robinson outperformed Hakeem in other games and dunking over him. I can show proof if you wanna dispute this
Makes my night watching these
Great Video🔥🔥🔥
"Was the MVP of the All-Star Game"... Ah, the gold old days when that actually meant something.
Keep up the good work content is amazing
How does this channel not have 1 million subs because this channel In my opinion should have 1m+ subs. Love Nonstop 🔥
Other centers may have won more or have more accolades but the fact still is that Hakeem Olajuwon is the most complete and most skilled center of all time.
Just imagine if Hakeem was lucky enough to play with Magic Johnson...My God it would have been unfair for every other team...
Hakeem as a PF on the lakers with kareem... That's an actual nightmare.
Don't take God's name in vain. Don't blaspheme. God is holy and righteous. God loves you and wants salvation for you by you repenting of your sins and turning to Jesus for salvation. I pray that for you in Jesus name and love amen.
Now imagine if Jokic had that athleticism
Nikola Jokic is a great player. But he"s terrible at defense.
@@allanhouston6759 he would be a better defender if he was more athletic
@@croke835 🤔🤔 yesn't !!!
You’d have embiid
@@allanhouston6759 His passing makes up for it
Great Video; thanks.
You could have mentioned Olajuwon's playoffs 87-93, where he just absolutely went nuts, whether his teammates or team did well or not. He was just a herculean force. So, what he did in 93, 94, 95 was no surprise. It was just seen by more people.
Hakeem did tell Kenny to bring him some water! He's that good!
I was pretty upset when he beat the knicks in the finals but clearly he was the best in the game and he’s a class act. He used to play games while fasting because of Ramadan and even then he outplayed others
if you pressed left arrow key on the keyboard many times, Nonstop Sports will sound like he's laughing
Wduym
Loved watching him in his phi slama jama days.
i was a major bulls fan back then and i always got excited when i got to see the dream play because you know he was going to gracefully dominate anyone he played agaist.
David Robinson had Tim Duncan about as long as Hakeem had Sampson. The Admiral was a solo act his entire prime.
Literally scrolled comments to see who called this out nice👌🏽
Robinson played 2x as long with TD than Hakeem did with Sampson, and TD was only out for one playoff series in 2000. Robinson played 6yrs with TD, and Dream played 3yrs with Sampson. Positives is that Duncan was healthy unlike the unfortunate Sampson. *Side Note* The Admiral actually wore #50 because when he was in the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Ralph Sampson in UVA, his favorite player wore #50 in college, then in the NBA.
@rodneywashington2017 you mean he scores 50points in the NCAA finals against Michigan. And he wore that number coming out of NAVY
@@TheSub-SaharanAmericanLegend No I meant what I said because it's the truth. Ralph Sampson was David Robinson's favorite player, so that's why he wore #50.
@@rodneywashington2017 Interesting. Didn't know that part. Robinson is my favorite center
Moses Malone is the definition of the teacher everyone needs. Man was Barkley and Hakeem teacher
Pluralisms. Use them.
The very best!!I had season tickets 94 thru 97. He was Magic to watch
He's without a doubt top 10 all time. He's the greatest center of all-time.
no that is karrem
If I was making an all world line up from the NBA, its so hard to pick the best center, in their prime. Sabonis, Walton and Olajuwon are all some of my favorites. Hakeem was just SO awesome and DURABLE, having only one flaw that really isn't a flaw (passing game) especially since he's the CENTER and can move like a small forward, he's just too good.
You know you're great when u dont get trash for getting drafted ahead of MJ
When is this channel getting to 1 mil subs? Truly underrated
Truly overrated
What a joy to watch play the game. Absolute graceful beast
Hakeem the dream, Hakeem the dream, does whatever a guard can do, does the shake of the dream, pull-up three from the deep, watch out here comes Olajuwan
Sung to the tune of the old spider man cartoons! I like it!
weirdo
I love Hakeem that man is amazing 🔥
Hakeem is one of my fav players, and I would put him as my center in a Dream Team.
My all-time favorite player, even with Wilt, Kareem and Shaq having played, I'd put him in my top 3. He's probably the best center I witnessed play in my lifetime (Kareem was pretty much done when I started watching hoops). Shaq was more physically dominant, but Hakeem's game was more well-rounded.
He always looks so happy and full of life.
Shout out for Robert Horry and his 7 championships. Only 6 players in NBA history had more championships than him and they all played on the same Celtics team in the 1960s (not including player coaches like Steve Kerr's 8)
Truly one of the goats 😂
Hard work is very good, a little good luck could also be helpful. I didn't believe it when I saw your post that Robert Horry won 7 Championships. I went to confirm and it's true. He may not be the best, but he was always on the right team at the right time.
That quote by RIley at 3: 48 really tells the story about how good Hakeem was.
Pls keep doing those vids
Goat of defense, and with his post moves he was really good at offense
Bill Russell is probably the greatest defensive player ever but I would say Hakeem is the best defensive player that I know of. Wish we had more data and footage on Russell
Defensively they’re very similar.. Both created a lot of fast breaks, both could guard 1-5, both were great help defenders.. Russell was a master at playing passing lanes, while Hakeem had great hands and was adept at poking the ball away..
Definitely the 2 best defenders ever..
Dennis Rodman?
I would take dennis Rodman as 2nd best hakeem as the best defenders ever. Bill Russell would take 3rd on this one sorry
You could say him and Bill Russel
(at the center position).I would give it to Hakeem,cause of the steals and the competicion of his era.
Underrated for sure.
Hakeem Olajuwon 8 times lost in the first round and missed the Playofs in his Prime.
He is one of the top 10 players of all-time. He is not underrated.
Favorite vid ever!!!!!!!!!
No 7’ player has ever had the moves the Dream had. He did things unheard of during his career. So much fun to watch.
We can all agree that Hakeem is the centers goat.
Hakeem was the closest we could ever get to seeing what wilt Chamberlain would look like in 90s
wilt couldnt shoot like hakeem
@@jioreyes5838 wilts signature shot was a fadeaway jumper, which he hit relentlessly
Wilt wouldn’t stand a chance against Hakeem imagine prime Hakeem in the 60s/70s
As a Rockets fan, and I love Houston teams, I remember phi slama jama and the heartbreaking moments
Oljauwon's 94-95 Playoff runs was a freaking gauntlet of all time great big men. Maybe the best run ever for big men going at it. Kemp, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, dominated every matchup. Just.. damn.
I’m 5”6 and the dream shake still works if you can get that form when doing the dream shake down and shooting the fader I mean it works 75% of the time
I'm 5'5" & trust me...it does. I could never shoot well from long-distance & yet dudes STILL fell for my Dream-Shakes in the mid-range area, lol.
My favorite player!
In my opinion the greatest center to every play the game hands down.
I mean he really doesn't need an introduction. Everyone who watched 90s ball and was a fan of that generation knew exactly how good he was. I personally loved the 90s because of more reasons than one, and the many great players that came out of the 90s just was amazing following their journey in the NBA and all the things they've accomplished.
He was extremely good. Top 10 all-time and arguably Top 5.
Hakeem was a TOP 3 center!!!! He played more comp like Shaq, Rodman, Abdul-Jabbar,Ewing, and David Robinson and destroyed them all!!
Rodman is a pF tho
Shaquille O"Neal, David Robinson, Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, Brad Daugherty,
Robert Parish, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Arvydas Sabonis and Rik Smits.
@@jamman950 he still played him in the paint dumb fuq
@@5Stxrspinna he wasn’t guarding centers a majority of the time and wasn’t even a scorer and was the 4th option teams were focused on mj and pippen “you dumb fuq”
@@jamman950 😂 your lost lil boy
Good vids
I've watched BALL since the late 80's and know just about everything about the history if basketball. In all honesty I have Olajuwon as the #1 Big Man EVER and #3 player ever behind Jordan & Bird.
Hakeem Olajuwon dream shake was NASTY
He wasn't good...he was unbelievable!
Unbeatable..
Much Gratitude .
Your my favorite TH-cam
Hakeem Was Truly A Dream
If he was a first pick in the same draft Jordan was in and nobody complained about, it just shows how good this man was
Missed my favourite Hakeem anecdote. During the series against the Magic Hakeem was casually giving Shaq pointers on how to play better. Not in a disrespectful way, just honest friendly tips on improving his game.
No one could stop Hakeem Olajuwon
His footwork was ahead of that time..
To me he is the best center of all time!
He's so underrated for sure a top 10 of all time
Hakeem was the best center I've ever seen, period! IMO there no one better.
Do best players who didn’t play in the nba like Len bias, Prime Arvydas Sabonis and street ball guys.
:)
I mean prime as didn’t play but he did play
On the NBA Mt. Rushmore of centers, on the Mt. Rushmore of defensive players, best center of the 90s, arguably the best 2 way player ever at worst top 5 in that regard. I'd say he was decent.
5th on my all time list for NBA Greats
Top 10 player of all time and the best international player of all time
He’s top 10 all time in my opinion
I’m pre sure everyone does
@@davidola2990 no a lot of ppl don’t have him in their top 10
@@splashh4633 mostly because of team accomplishment.
Dream lack in this area in comparison to other in the top 10 even tho that’s his fault since how trash was his Houston between 1988-1992.
Pound for pound, inch for inch, skills for skills Olajuwon is top 3 all time for sure.
@@yvans. center that’s it
@@splashh4633 watch more B-Ball
This video should’ve been called “The story of Hakeem Olajuwon” his game was barely talked about, nonetheless good video!
The Dream❤👊🔥
Size wise vs jordan argument ... Position skill wise their the both most polished in. Each category 60/40 mike the most elite legend fax ...but aint no sleeping on the Dream ...