My band last used a mastering engineer from London who chargers different rates for unsigned artists, indie labels and major labels which we thought was a good way of doing things. The masters we got sound great too so we think we'll use him again.
I've been mixing at $250 for about 5 years now. Most clients seem completely random and I haven't been able to build much of a base with super serious artists and referral work is low, however, I have had success with repeat clients.
I was stuck at $250 for years myself until about a year and a half ago. Luckily had a few songs on radio with my clients here in the DMV. I'm hovering around $350 depending on a few things like drum replacement, extensive vocal and instrument tuning and also the number of songs they need mixing at the same time frame. Good luck. 🎤🤘🏽🎧🎼👍🏽
I mix mainly hip hop and the problem I'm having is not finding artists to record and mix but finding artists to record and mix that have to money lol.. Im in the 200 dollar range and I have to come down about 50 to 60 dollars to even get work.. these artists want a million dollar record but only have a 50 dollar budget.. So It's really my fault.. I need to find just two artists that's willing to pay what I want and I'll be happy.. thanks for the content 🙏🏾
I have the opposite problem. My problem is that I actually have money to spend, but the Engineers in My network are artists as well so they take the money but focus on their projects and give me half-assed production. I used to overpay thinking it would be appreciated, now I'm just investing in myself so I can record and mix at my place.
@@DEADIKATED get in touch and we can chat if you're interested! I'm currently in the lowest tier (building experience) but more than happy to mix something and supply a preview before any payment is settled to ensure my clients are happy!
@@DEADIKATED Talk to other people then. A Mix Engineer wants to mix. The people who take your money then faff about are not Mix Engineers. you can decide what they are ;-)
This is the most insightful video I've ever watched when it comes to the business side of the industry, or any creative field for that matter. I'm relatively experienced in a foray of creative work including music production, but I couldn't have articulated it better than how you did here.
As ever, fantastic useful and professional advice again. I personally charge a fixed fee for the set up of the mix and then a price per audio file. That way, if it's a small mix, the customer isn't having to pay ridiculous amounts. It's easy to under value yourself though, especially when trying to compete on price, which is the wrong tactic. I think remembering to update your pricing in alignment with your skill level is a key thing to do. This is especially useful when you're getting 80% of your work from recommendations. Those customers will have a more in depth knowledge of your potential, than a random customer who finds you via an advert etc and is comparing you based on price. Focus on the 80% and don't worry about the others. And even though I specify three post mix modifications, I would never hold them to that (unless they were clearly messing me around). I'd rather just make sure the mix is perfect to them (not necessarily to me) whatever it takes. That way they'll come back and also recommend you. Just going the extra mile can reap dividends down the road. Once you've worked with a particular customer for a while, you get to know how they like things anyway. Some aren't big fans of delay on vocals, or like their vocals back in the mix more or whatever it may be. You eventually get familiar with their nuances and I'm not mixing for me, I'm mixing for them.
What about factoring in editing work into the mixing prices? (vocal tuning, time aligning instruments & vocals, re-amping, etc) Should we have a price for just mixing what's given to us without any editing? Then a price (or menu) for editing services to make everything tight & in tune? I know that depends on what we're given because we could receive really nice tracks and only have to mix. I'm guessing it's on a per song basis depending on what we receive as tracks.
When we are talking about a professional level of work, and making a sustainable workflow out of it, I’d definitely consider editing a separate task. Realistically, mixing a dense arrangement could easily take 4-8 hours, plus revisions. The editing that might want to be done to tighten up performances could easily take 2-4 hours. (Though this depends heavily on genre and other factors.) At a high enough level they are definitely different tasks. But some people might fold this kind of work into a mixing rate as well. Just make sure that the rate for that kind of mix is high enough as to justify the additional time, or the additional help from a mix assistant or editor. Great question and I hope that helps! -Justin
Yeah, I’m learning this the hard way right now. I’m loving my current mix project but didn’t expect the editing (well, actually, mostly dealing with bleed that is getting in the way- not all bleed is bad but sometimes you need to make it less) to be so extensive. Still, I’m proud of the results so it will be part of my “business card.”
Absolutely you make my point for me. Thank you for saying this because when does somebody ever mix a song without having to do some stupid, goofy editing or vocal tuning to someone’s music because they’re too lazy to do it or don’t even know they need this treatment due to being tone def !! then there is the issue of sequencing issues because they don’t know how to quantize!! How many times does this happen on a mix!!! So I’m factoring in all of that into it !!! When do we get to just open up the session, start pushing faders and turning knobs.. just mixing ? That never happens so I factor in all of that! Let’s not forget to mention revisions… You do this incredible work, the. You get “ Oh, I can’t hear this or that “ “Oh this is not loud enough. Oh, can you fix this? Oh, can you fix this “ and it never ends… it never ends! They start chasing perfection, which doesn’t exist. All for the price of 50-250 bucks ?? Nah bro!! NOT ME
Yeah you need to be in control of expectations, doesn't help anyone in the long run to be the "nice guy". I would seperate fees or say "bring this back to me when the editing is done" and limit the number lf revisions.
Great perspective. Perhaps a key point of differentiation between client attended work and independent work when in the 'per song" model where you are NOT the recording engineer is how it translates to your actual dollars per hour. The two main variables I can see there are 1: your general level of efficiency, and 2) (the more unpredictable variable) the quality of the incoming tracks. After all, each song will take some unknown amount of time, they key is getting your average time per mix to be somewhat consistent/predictable.
This video was great. Thank you so much! Many times I don't know how much I am going to charge until I know more about the production and the work hours that it is gonna take. What about you? If I can mix a song (20 tracks¿?) in a day, I may charge 200 bucks only. But there are songs, and genres, so complex and particular, that need a lot of detail and well... TIME to do things properly. And that can take around 3 or 4 sessions in some cases, and the price can go up to 800€. And it is still only one song. I dunno, it is quite relative.
I think because most jobs are based on an hourly rate people are brainwashed into constantly making the association with time/price opposed to value/price. The client doesn't care how the sausage is made. If you put out a stellar mix in 1 hour vs 10 the value for the client is still the same. Set prices based upon value and then it's up to you to get as much profit from that value creation as you can.
My issue is, the editing. Most tracks I get are poorly recorded and have production problems. I feel like I charge a reasonable price to mix, BUT I can't ignore the issues and I spend more time fixing instead of mixing. I would have to double my price to make any money. What do other mixers do when a track needs alot of editing? Thanks everyone.
You should just be up front with your clients. Tell them you can edit and mix for double the price, or they can take it back to whomever recorded the track and have them fix it, they can edit themselves or outsource editing. And maybe you just say "hey idk who you paid or how much to record this track, but they didn't do you any favors. I can mix it but it will still be limited in quality by the recordings." You also need to clearly define mixing for your clients. You're not a god lol it's not writing, it's not arranging, it's not editing, it's not producing, it's not sound design, it's not recording, it's not mastering. I enjoy doing all those things but they can't all fall under the price I would charge to balance the tracks that were sent over.
Super good info:)...but in the "low range" of mixing, like $2-300/mix there's a big problem I encountered many times : mixing tracks that are not edited at all. Out of tune and out of sync. And the artist always think that's something you should do. I mean, I did a lot of mixes spending 10 hours editing and 5 hours mixing, all for $200/mix. When I told them that editing is a different kind of job, and should be charged separately, they said " we can find someone who's willing to do mixes/editing even for less"...so.... It's not good at all. How can someone avoid this situation? Thanks
I asked the same question above. How to break out editing costs or give a price for mixing what you're given and a price for full editing and making the song as good as it can be. I think editing should be broken out in to a separate charge.
Yes, I answered this one elsewhere here... but maybe I should do a whole podcast episode if it came up twice! Here's what I wrote to watsonstudios11: "When we are talking about a professional level of work, and making a sustainable workflow out of it, I’d definitely consider editing a separate task. Realistically, mixing a dense arrangement could easily take 4-8 hours, plus revisions. The editing that might want to be done to tighten up performances could easily take 2-4 hours. (Though this depends heavily on genre and other factors.) At a high enough level they are definitely different tasks. But some people might fold this kind of work into a mixing rate as well. Just make sure that the rate for that kind of mix is high enough as to justify the additional time, or the additional help from a mix assistant or editor. Great question and I hope that helps! -Justin"
@@SonicScoop Thanks again for the insight :). Putting together all the info I got, I made the conclusion that people at the beginning of their career in mixing/mastering cannot escape totally from this. Until we'll "break free" from this gray zone and reach higher payment tiers, there's no unique solution. So I guess, if I want a job from someone, I have to edit/mix no matter what. I don't want to put out "bad mixes" skipping the editing. In the end, if some bigger name wants to hear my mixes and try to hire me, they should be perfect :)
Keep in mind that you don’t have to say “yes” to any customer who doesn’t value (or understand the value of) your time and energy. If they claim they can find someone to do it for cheaper, let them. If someone is doing that much work for let’s say $50-$150, guaranteed their work is not very good and that artist won’t succeed. I’ve seen this happen several times. The artist ends up coming back and paying my price to get it done right. Stand your ground & know your ideal customer. And if money is a struggle then get a part time job to support but don’t sacrifice your values and self respect for people who don’t offer you value in return
Hey jc ✌️ I always enjoy your podcasts 🙌 thank you 🙏 I’m serious about earning money and have been learning mixing and mastering for a couple,e of years ... me and my friend have actually been working together for years I also write lyrics and perform ... I know 🙌 I always hear people say you shouldn’t mix and master your own stuff but , I don’t make the instrumentals 🙌 that’s my mates job ... but I have had to learn mixing vocals on my own 👀🤦♂️ .. and I’m critical haha , still it’s helped me improve . And thankfully my mate has done some remixes so iv recently been able to mix and master those to the best of my ability 🙌 .. anyway ... what I’d like from you ( and I’m happy to pay) is critique on the finished product ... technically speaking haha you don’t have to like the music 😂🙌😎 if I email you is this something you would entertain ? ✌️💚☯️
Sure, happy to help! I can always give mix feedback as part of a mastering session or a coaching call. Email me at justin at SonicScoop if you want to get in touch!
It's a useful program! If you're content to use only that, you're still going to need some good speakers and a good room though. At least, much better than your clients'. Really, really good headphones that you know inside out and trust and that actually give you useful low end information are a possibility as well. But big speakers are a lot more fun :-)
SonicScoop I only record and mix acoustic music, mainly due to my environment but I've become something of a specialist in that area. I have a great mic selection, loads of great acoustic guitars, a very nice sounding vocal booth and an upright piano. It's pretty simple stuff for the most part so Ozone 9 works well for me.
That totally happens! The first album I ever recorded and mixed I charged $350 for. I think that was back in 2003. :-) I was a college student at the time. -Justin
I’ve read Behind the glass, vol 1&2, and the Zen of mixing. I still don’t know if I’m spending too much TIME mixing a track. Like your video starting at zero time, could you describe how mixing can scale up , like minimum 4/8 hours, for a folk trio, no pop tricks... up to 20+ hours per track for super aggressive or poppy work. I have a few stereo outboard pres, eqs, compressors, limiters, and tape emulator from Rupert neve, with an Apollo X in a pro treated room.
Great question. I talk about it a bit here in the episode "How Long Should a Mix Take": th-cam.com/video/PYI9DTX5yHc/w-d-xo.html Also useful is this one, "Why You Need A System for Mixing": th-cam.com/video/Jx6jHDe5n7M/w-d-xo.html Please let me know if there are any more questions once you've checked those out. Hope that helps! -Justin
I appreciate you so much. This video was fantastic (as usual) and super informative! What would you say for Price tiers for recording? Do you think charging per track is better than per hour? Would you lump recording and mixing into one price? Thanks again!
One reason why per hour pricing for recording makes sense to me is that like labor jobs, it does literally require people to be in a specific place doing a task over time. If I bust out an awesome mix for $350 and it only takes me an hour, cool, maybe the next mix i decide to spend 3 hours on. Maybe I mix for 2 hours, go to unicyclying class and come back and mix for another 2 hours. I would hate to agree to a fixed recording rate per song and the band didn't bother to practice or finish writing their songs. I've been thinking about a day rate as well. Hey you've got 16 hours to get as much recorded as you can. Or as I mentioned in another comment value based pricing, how much value $ might this recording deliver to the client in the future? If the album goes on to earn $100,000.00 in sales, surely 10% on the recording part of the project would be a worthwhile investment for the artist.
yeah, because I've mixed someone's stuff, and they just keep saying they're not happy with the mix and keep wanting to retry and record. Should I charge for every mix.
I've been paying to get some mix work for years. Later, I started charging $100 per song mixed and mastered. Because of a referral, i got a new client who I charged $150 a song, plus $30 for mastering that song, so $180 total. He was super happy with the song, but then Covid 19 came and he didn't send more songs. A year later, I just got 2 new songs to mix from the client I was chargin $100 for mix and mastering total. Should I charge him $200- $300 now?
I'm talking about a per-song basis here. I kind of mention that in the beginning, but in hindsight I could have reiterated it more. Hope that helps! -Justin
@@toolondaboards that's because mix engineers are competing on a worldwide scale now. $150 in Central America (for example) is worth more than $150 in the USA. The internet and affordable (or stolen) software changed the game.
I've been playing in bands for 20 years and have played on a handful of albums in that time. I don't doubt that mixes are worth what you suggest, but I know for a fact that most musicians don't have that kind of money to spend. I recorded, mixed, and mastered all but one of those albums myself, plus numerous demos. And I think my work stood up pretty well compared to the albums other bands were recording in local studios. While I have occasionally recorded and mixed demos or albums for friends' bands, I never made the leap into charging actual money for my work. (In hindsight, I should have gotten into recording/mixing as a career 20 years ago. But at the time I was convinced that my band was going to "make it" so never took that idea seriously. Live and learn.)
Am I the only one charging an hourly rate?.. mixes could be 3 hrs to 12 hrs depending on what it is.. seems strange to me to charge a flat rate.. There is probably a great reason to do it though..
If you are charging hourly, then your clients must also be local, right? Otherwise, how are you invoicing and securing payment? I mean, you could watermark the mix until payment, but I hate watermarking, it interferes with the flow and quality of my work. Just curious
@@KBlakK I only send an MP3 for approval. I work with some out of state clients as well. There are not many people who won't pay, I've never met a musician who would not pay... a corporation,,, yes.. but not musicians. :)
I’ve been one most of my adult life as well. I also have interviewed a countless number of them at al levels of the industry and ask them questions like this. :-) Others of them are my clients and friends. Your experience may be different, and others’ experience may be different than yours. Hope that helps! -Justin
@@matt_nyc_audioengineer besides ballpark numbers there was also a conceptual framework of how to charge. as a part time (sometimes full time) engineer, this lines up with my experience. "truth" in this case might be subjective, but it was a helpful discussion nonetheless and props to Justin for addressing this question
@@SonicScoop You're not wrong that some people may have a different experience. But when I look through the list of engineers a majority of the people who stay busy are those who charge $100 or less. I just think that $250 in that market is on the very high end of where you should price yourself to stay competitive.
@@jon0830 I agree that he deserves props for a topic that many people won't discuss. I'm just talking from my experience as a full time freelance engineer. I am on all the major sites and every time I raise my price above $150, the client response drops off. When I stay between $75 and $150 I stay busy. Right now for example I have 6 gigs I am working on. I stay with 3 at the very least. When I raise my price there will be days where I have no work. My fear is that someone who is just starting out will see this and charge that much and wonder why they are not getting much work! I know I could charge more but repeat clients are the lifeblood of this business. I would rather have steady work and charge less than get the occasional gig at $250. To keep new potential repeat clients coming in the door is the most important thing.
So do people charge per song and not per hour? I don’t even know how to ask what people charge. I literally reached out to electric lady studios , Email and call and never even heard back or got to speak to anyone . I had a fair amount of money to throw out, but I don’t know if some studios won’t take random clients or offer anything less than album deals or something to that effect. I’m willing to pay good money for some mixes while I still have money to spend but I want it to be done at A reputable place that I can use as a bit of a good look too
I recently discovered a concept called "Value Based Pricing" - I've mainly seen it discussed in the context of graphic design, brand design, consulant type work, but I see no reason it couldn't apply to the audio world. Justin Biebers album Purpose sold 14,000,000 copies, orginally for like $17 usd a pop, now they sell on amazon for $10. Just to keep the math simple lets just go with $10. 14 tracks on the album. So thats $140,000,000.00 just in album sales on the low end. To be extreamly generous yet again lets just say the mix was just 5% of the total album value. That comes out $500,000.00 worth of value per track just on the mix alone. If you're not charging at least 10% of that you're getting robbed. Any business would love to spend 50k and get a return of $450K. Now if you're working with someone whose last album sold 1000 copies at $10, they have twice as many fans now since their last album, market research shows they will likely sell 2000 copies at $15, for $30,000.00 total. 10 song album, mix 5% of total value - $1500.00 for the album or $150.00 per mix. Maybe you can't afford to work with someone whose album only sells 2000 copies, or maybe numbers need to include broader revenue streams than just album sales. Maybe it's a rich guy or gal with a vanity project and doesn't matter. The point being to set pricing based upon the ideally measurable value $ to the client. Rather than assigning your self some arbitrary level of value. Maybe it's a 4 song ep and the artist just wants it to sound the best it possibly could even if it only breaks even or is negative on sales. Totally client/project dependent.
have been overpriced a few times, ended up doin it my self, both the mixing n the mastering because of the poor service. manny engineers out there not having work, and they deserve it. bad attitude, unrealistic expectations and lazy to produce something worthy. asking the artists crazy amounts of money for 1 job, to pay all their month expenses. and what's the most important and no one is talking about it, is the fact that everybody in this biznes demands to be paid in advance. if you dont like it, you have some revisions. if u still dont like it, good luck next time. so happy for all those small kids with big toys that are acting like divas and are missing the point that if the artist is not happy, the song is going nowhere and no profits for him/ her. but who cares, lets rip off the next sucker. what goes around comes around.
artists believe that creating their art shouldn't cost them anything, therefore you should be providing your service for free. No other industry values human labor as little as the music industry. Until artists have the ability to pay 1,500+ a track (and often only when its not their direct funds), they don't want to pay for your services. Its honestly a horrible issue within the community which no longer supports itself, only oneself.
@@SonicScoop Ok so, these prices you talk about for "a mix" is not what you would charge for producing from scratch? - What would you charge for that? for "producing"..
Here’s your issue, who is going to pay that much? I have a small home studio and my budget for mixing is………….. I’m not say work should be free, but if you aren’t working with a professional band then why are you charging professional prices??
There are plenty of professional artists, aspiring professionals, and hobbyists or amateurs who still want the quality of a professional sounding release. It may not the majority of people who make music. But then again, people who can mix to that level of quality aren’t the majority either, so it kind of evens out. Hope that makes sense, -Justin
I haven’t deleted any comments on this video. Some comments will get automatically flagged by TH-cam if they include profanity or sometimes if they included links that could look like spam. Hope that helps! -Justin
My band last used a mastering engineer from London who chargers different rates for unsigned artists, indie labels and major labels which we thought was a good way of doing things. The masters we got sound great too so we think we'll use him again.
I've been mixing at $250 for about 5 years now. Most clients seem completely random and I haven't been able to build much of a base with super serious artists and referral work is low, however, I have had success with repeat clients.
I was stuck at $250 for years myself until about a year and a half ago. Luckily had a few songs on radio with my clients here in the DMV. I'm hovering around $350 depending on a few things like drum replacement, extensive vocal and instrument tuning and also the number of songs they need mixing at the same time frame. Good luck. 🎤🤘🏽🎧🎼👍🏽
@@SirDLee keep going
I mix mainly hip hop and the problem I'm having is not finding artists to record and mix but finding artists to record and mix that have to money lol.. Im in the 200 dollar range and I have to come down about 50 to 60 dollars to even get work.. these artists want a million dollar record but only have a 50 dollar budget.. So It's really my fault.. I need to find just two artists that's willing to pay what I want and I'll be happy.. thanks for the content 🙏🏾
I have the opposite problem. My problem is that I actually have money to spend, but the Engineers in My network are artists as well so they take the money but focus on their projects and give me half-assed production. I used to overpay thinking it would be appreciated, now I'm just investing in myself so I can record and mix at my place.
@@DEADIKATED get in touch and we can chat if you're interested! I'm currently in the lowest tier (building experience) but more than happy to mix something and supply a preview before any payment is settled to ensure my clients are happy!
@@DEADIKATED Damn.. thats crazy..
@@DEADIKATED Talk to other people then. A Mix Engineer wants to mix. The people who take your money then faff about are not Mix Engineers. you can decide what they are ;-)
charge more. a lot more. cheap prices attract low quality customers.
This is the most insightful video I've ever watched when it comes to the business side of the industry, or any creative field for that matter. I'm relatively experienced in a foray of creative work including music production, but I couldn't have articulated it better than how you did here.
Awesome to hear, thank you Allen!
-Justin
That bit @ 18:00 is some real talk. I talk about it with local peers but it's really a silent thing online.
Billy Decker (@14# 1 records) charges the following: $200/demo, $500/Indie release, $2500/Label release per song
Is this production or mix/master you are speaking of??
Wait what? People still do demos? lol Who are they for? No one is signing people that aren't already in the marketplace are they?
As ever, fantastic useful and professional advice again. I personally charge a fixed fee for the set up of the mix and then a price per audio file. That way, if it's a small mix, the customer isn't having to pay ridiculous amounts. It's easy to under value yourself though, especially when trying to compete on price, which is the wrong tactic. I think remembering to update your pricing in alignment with your skill level is a key thing to do. This is especially useful when you're getting 80% of your work from recommendations. Those customers will have a more in depth knowledge of your potential, than a random customer who finds you via an advert etc and is comparing you based on price.
Focus on the 80% and don't worry about the others. And even though I specify three post mix modifications, I would never hold them to that (unless they were clearly messing me around). I'd rather just make sure the mix is perfect to them (not necessarily to me) whatever it takes. That way they'll come back and also recommend you. Just going the extra mile can reap dividends down the road.
Once you've worked with a particular customer for a while, you get to know how they like things anyway. Some aren't big fans of delay on vocals, or like their vocals back in the mix more or whatever it may be. You eventually get familiar with their nuances and I'm not mixing for me, I'm mixing for them.
Graham Taylor you sir, have the right attitude and business brain. It's not about you, it's about them. That mindset will keep you working.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ just because you took the time to share 😎✌️💚☯️
this was top tier insight man... salute.
What about factoring in editing work into the mixing prices? (vocal tuning, time aligning instruments & vocals, re-amping, etc) Should we have a price for just mixing what's given to us without any editing? Then a price (or menu) for editing services to make everything tight & in tune? I know that depends on what we're given because we could receive really nice tracks and only have to mix. I'm guessing it's on a per song basis depending on what we receive as tracks.
When we are talking about a professional level of work, and making a sustainable workflow out of it, I’d definitely consider editing a separate task.
Realistically, mixing a dense arrangement could easily take 4-8 hours, plus revisions.
The editing that might want to be done to tighten up performances could easily take 2-4 hours. (Though this depends heavily on genre and other factors.)
At a high enough level they are definitely different tasks. But some people might fold this kind of work into a mixing rate as well.
Just make sure that the rate for that kind of mix is high enough as to justify the additional time, or the additional help from a mix assistant or editor.
Great question and I hope that helps!
-Justin
Yeah, I’m learning this the hard way right now. I’m loving my current mix project but didn’t expect the editing (well, actually, mostly dealing with bleed that is getting in the way- not all bleed is bad but sometimes you need to make it less) to be so extensive. Still, I’m proud of the results so it will be part of my “business card.”
Absolutely you make my point for me.
Thank you for saying this because when does somebody ever mix a song without having to do some stupid, goofy editing or vocal tuning to someone’s music because they’re too lazy to do it or don’t even know they need this treatment due to being tone def !!
then there is the issue of sequencing issues because they don’t know how to quantize!!
How many times does this happen on a mix!!!
So I’m factoring in all of that into it !!!
When do we get to just open up the session, start pushing faders and turning knobs.. just mixing ?
That never happens so I factor in all of that!
Let’s not forget to mention revisions…
You do this incredible work, the. You get
“ Oh, I can’t hear this or that “
“Oh this is not loud enough. Oh, can you fix this? Oh, can you fix this “
and it never ends… it never ends!
They start chasing perfection, which doesn’t exist. All for the price of 50-250 bucks ?? Nah bro!! NOT ME
Yeah you need to be in control of expectations, doesn't help anyone in the long run to be the "nice guy". I would seperate fees or say "bring this back to me when the editing is done" and limit the number lf revisions.
This is really well done. Thanks Justin.
Thanks for the in depth view !
Great perspective. Perhaps a key point of differentiation between client attended work and independent work when in the 'per song" model where you are NOT the recording engineer is how it translates to your actual dollars per hour. The two main variables I can see there are 1: your general level of efficiency, and 2) (the more unpredictable variable) the quality of the incoming tracks. After all, each song will take some unknown amount of time, they key is getting your average time per mix to be somewhat consistent/predictable.
Always interesting and always a pleasure to see and hear you
One of the best videos out there! Thanks Justin
Thank you!!!! this is VERY helpful.
Thank you for this information :)
Thanks for doing this. I'm not to the point where I can charge people for my mixes, but I was very interested to know about this topic.
You are absolutely the living incarnation of Napoleon Solo!
Great video, thanks for sharing your thoughts on that subject!
Usually I don’t comment on videos, but sonic scoop is excellent. Love the tips!
He's not right tho!
This video was great. Thank you so much!
Many times I don't know how much I am going to charge until I know more about the production and the work hours that it is gonna take. What about you?
If I can mix a song (20 tracks¿?) in a day, I may charge 200 bucks only. But there are songs, and genres, so complex and particular, that need a lot of detail and well... TIME to do things properly. And that can take around 3 or 4 sessions in some cases, and the price can go up to 800€. And it is still only one song. I dunno, it is quite relative.
I think because most jobs are based on an hourly rate people are brainwashed into constantly making the association with time/price opposed to value/price. The client doesn't care how the sausage is made. If you put out a stellar mix in 1 hour vs 10 the value for the client is still the same. Set prices based upon value and then it's up to you to get as much profit from that value creation as you can.
My issue is, the editing. Most tracks I get are poorly recorded and have production problems. I feel like I charge a reasonable price to mix, BUT I can't ignore the issues and I spend more time fixing instead of mixing. I would have to double my price to make any money. What do other mixers do when a track needs alot of editing? Thanks everyone.
I charge hourly
You should just be up front with your clients. Tell them you can edit and mix for double the price, or they can take it back to whomever recorded the track and have them fix it, they can edit themselves or outsource editing. And maybe you just say "hey idk who you paid or how much to record this track, but they didn't do you any favors. I can mix it but it will still be limited in quality by the recordings." You also need to clearly define mixing for your clients. You're not a god lol it's not writing, it's not arranging, it's not editing, it's not producing, it's not sound design, it's not recording, it's not mastering. I enjoy doing all those things but they can't all fall under the price I would charge to balance the tracks that were sent over.
Whatever it is it's not enough. You see other service professionals working like this industry?
Super good info:)...but in the "low range" of mixing, like $2-300/mix there's a big problem I encountered many times : mixing tracks that are not edited at all. Out of tune and out of sync. And the artist always think that's something you should do.
I mean, I did a lot of mixes spending 10 hours editing and 5 hours mixing, all for $200/mix. When I told them that editing is a different kind of job, and should be charged separately, they said " we can find someone who's willing to do mixes/editing even for less"...so.... It's not good at all. How can someone avoid this situation? Thanks
I asked the same question above. How to break out editing costs or give a price for mixing what you're given and a price for full editing and making the song as good as it can be. I think editing should be broken out in to a separate charge.
Yes, I answered this one elsewhere here... but maybe I should do a whole podcast episode if it came up twice! Here's what I wrote to watsonstudios11:
"When we are talking about a professional level of work, and making a sustainable workflow out of it, I’d definitely consider editing a separate task.
Realistically, mixing a dense arrangement could easily take 4-8 hours, plus revisions.
The editing that might want to be done to tighten up performances could easily take 2-4 hours. (Though this depends heavily on genre and other factors.)
At a high enough level they are definitely different tasks. But some people might fold this kind of work into a mixing rate as well.
Just make sure that the rate for that kind of mix is high enough as to justify the additional time, or the additional help from a mix assistant or editor.
Great question and I hope that helps!
-Justin"
@@SonicScoop Thanks again for the insight :).
Putting together all the info I got, I made the conclusion that people at the beginning of their career in mixing/mastering cannot escape totally from this. Until we'll "break free" from this gray zone and reach higher payment tiers, there's no unique solution.
So I guess, if I want a job from someone, I have to edit/mix no matter what.
I don't want to put out "bad mixes" skipping the editing. In the end, if some bigger name wants to hear my mixes and try to hire me, they should be perfect :)
Welcome to being an engineer in the days of the artists running the show. No more major label dominance. They want us to do all the work.
Keep in mind that you don’t have to say “yes” to any customer who doesn’t value (or understand the value of) your time and energy. If they claim they can find someone to do it for cheaper, let them. If someone is doing that much work for let’s say $50-$150, guaranteed their work is not very good and that artist won’t succeed. I’ve seen this happen several times. The artist ends up coming back and paying my price to get it done right. Stand your ground & know your ideal customer. And if money is a struggle then get a part time job to support but don’t sacrifice your values and self respect for people who don’t offer you value in return
Your a saint thank you for doing this.
Good subject. I'm alway struggling with pricing. I don't price based on the quality of my mixes, I price based on time.
How's that working out for you? Are you able to charge a high hourly rate or are you just shafting yourself?
Would be cool if you did a similar video for studios (renting/owning) :)
Hey jc ✌️ I always enjoy your podcasts 🙌 thank you 🙏 I’m serious about earning money and have been learning mixing and mastering for a couple,e of years ... me and my friend have actually been working together for years I also write lyrics and perform ... I know 🙌 I always hear people say you shouldn’t mix and master your own stuff but , I don’t make the instrumentals 🙌 that’s my mates job ... but I have had to learn mixing vocals on my own 👀🤦♂️ .. and I’m critical haha , still it’s helped me improve . And thankfully my mate has done some remixes so iv recently been able to mix and master those to the best of my ability 🙌 .. anyway ... what I’d like from you ( and I’m happy to pay) is critique on the finished product ... technically speaking haha you don’t have to like the music 😂🙌😎 if I email you is this something you would entertain ? ✌️💚☯️
Sure, happy to help! I can always give mix feedback as part of a mastering session or a coaching call. Email me at justin at SonicScoop if you want to get in touch!
@@SonicScoop I’ll be in touch over the next couple of days 🎯 ✌️💚☯️
I record/mix/master mostly broke punk/metal bands. I charge 30/hour and work out of a home studio. I want to charge more.
Thanks, Justin. When mastering engineers pay 30K+ for monitors it's getting serious. I suppose you can't work magic if you can't hear it.
Mage Prometheus Ozone 9 only costs 500 bucks 😂😂
It's a useful program! If you're content to use only that, you're still going to need some good speakers and a good room though. At least, much better than your clients'. Really, really good headphones that you know inside out and trust and that actually give you useful low end information are a possibility as well. But big speakers are a lot more fun :-)
@@SonicScoop In my tiny retirement flat these LP-6's make me more hated than a ginger-haired step-child.
SonicScoop I only record and mix acoustic music, mainly due to my environment but I've become something of a specialist in that area. I have a great mic selection, loads of great acoustic guitars, a very nice sounding vocal booth and an upright piano. It's pretty simple stuff for the most part so Ozone 9 works well for me.
That's a fallacy if you think all Professional successful Mastering Engineers pay that much for monitors.
Thanks. Im thinking i should send you my latest mix to see what you think i should charge.
Sure thing! I'm always happy to give detailed mix feedback as part of a mastering session or coaching call. Happy to help if I can!
-Justin
my first album, EP, recording/tracking mixing and master, $500 total.
That totally happens! The first album I ever recorded and mixed I charged $350 for. I think that was back in 2003. :-) I was a college student at the time.
-Justin
Great video! Thank you for this! By the way, how much I should charge if I compose a sound/bgm/lofi/ambient and I mix it as well?
I’ve read Behind the glass, vol 1&2, and the Zen of mixing. I still don’t know if I’m spending too much TIME mixing a track. Like your video starting at zero time, could you describe how mixing can scale up , like minimum 4/8 hours, for a folk trio, no pop tricks... up to 20+ hours per track for super aggressive or poppy work. I have a few stereo outboard pres, eqs, compressors, limiters, and tape emulator from Rupert neve, with an Apollo X in a pro treated room.
Great question. I talk about it a bit here in the episode "How Long Should a Mix Take": th-cam.com/video/PYI9DTX5yHc/w-d-xo.html
Also useful is this one, "Why You Need A System for Mixing": th-cam.com/video/Jx6jHDe5n7M/w-d-xo.html
Please let me know if there are any more questions once you've checked those out. Hope that helps!
-Justin
I appreciate you so much. This video was fantastic (as usual) and super informative!
What would you say for Price tiers for recording? Do you think charging per track is better than per hour? Would you lump recording and mixing into one price? Thanks again!
One reason why per hour pricing for recording makes sense to me is that like labor jobs, it does literally require people to be in a specific place doing a task over time. If I bust out an awesome mix for $350 and it only takes me an hour, cool, maybe the next mix i decide to spend 3 hours on. Maybe I mix for 2 hours, go to unicyclying class and come back and mix for another 2 hours. I would hate to agree to a fixed recording rate per song and the band didn't bother to practice or finish writing their songs.
I've been thinking about a day rate as well. Hey you've got 16 hours to get as much recorded as you can.
Or as I mentioned in another comment value based pricing, how much value $ might this recording deliver to the client in the future? If the album goes on to earn $100,000.00 in sales, surely 10% on the recording part of the project would be a worthwhile investment for the artist.
Hi Sonic Scoop! :)
Hi Jasper!
yeah, because I've mixed someone's stuff, and they just keep saying they're not happy with the mix and keep wanting to retry and record. Should I charge for every mix.
What will be some of the differences between the 400 mix and the top tier mixer that a person can hear my good man?
I've been paying to get some mix work for years. Later, I started charging $100 per song mixed and mastered. Because of a referral, i got a new client who I charged $150 a song, plus $30 for mastering that song, so $180 total. He was super happy with the song, but then Covid 19 came and he didn't send more songs. A year later, I just got 2 new songs to mix from the client I was chargin $100 for mix and mastering total. Should I charge him $200- $300 now?
Solid video homie. Thanks
Im in the $300 range. I should be more of the $400 range given the clients I mix but I like to keep it smooth.
Justin, I heard you say “per mix” but does that mean $400-600 per track, or project?
I'm talking about a per-song basis here. I kind of mention that in the beginning, but in hindsight I could have reiterated it more. Hope that helps! -Justin
@@SonicScoop gotcha, thanks for the reply.
The average price to stay competitive these days is $150 tops! I'm a full time freelancer. If you charge any more money you won't get any clients.
@@matt_nyc_audioengineer not all the way true. Different factors do play a role but capping at $150 is surprising to me. Cheers.
@@toolondaboards that's because mix engineers are competing on a worldwide scale now. $150 in Central America (for example) is worth more than $150 in the USA. The internet and affordable (or stolen) software changed the game.
So... let's break down in tears...
Okay :D
I've been playing in bands for 20 years and have played on a handful of albums in that time. I don't doubt that mixes are worth what you suggest, but I know for a fact that most musicians don't have that kind of money to spend. I recorded, mixed, and mastered all but one of those albums myself, plus numerous demos. And I think my work stood up pretty well compared to the albums other bands were recording in local studios.
While I have occasionally recorded and mixed demos or albums for friends' bands, I never made the leap into charging actual money for my work.
(In hindsight, I should have gotten into recording/mixing as a career 20 years ago. But at the time I was convinced that my band was going to "make it" so never took that idea seriously. Live and learn.)
Am I the only one charging an hourly rate?.. mixes could be 3 hrs to 12 hrs depending on what it is.. seems strange to me to charge a flat rate.. There is probably a great reason to do it though..
I charge hourly. I've done 70 dollar mixes and 1500 dollar mixes
If you are charging hourly, then your clients must also be local, right? Otherwise, how are you invoicing and securing payment? I mean, you could watermark the mix until payment, but I hate watermarking, it interferes with the flow and quality of my work. Just curious
@@KBlakK I only send an MP3 for approval. I work with some out of state clients as well. There are not many people who won't pay, I've never met a musician who would not pay... a corporation,,, yes.. but not musicians. :)
thanks for the real truth!
He's not telling the truth. I'm a full time freelance engineer.
I’ve been one most of my adult life as well. I also have interviewed a countless number of them at al levels of the industry and ask them questions like this. :-) Others of them are my clients and friends. Your experience may be different, and others’ experience may be different than yours. Hope that helps! -Justin
@@matt_nyc_audioengineer besides ballpark numbers there was also a conceptual framework of how to charge. as a part time (sometimes full time) engineer, this lines up with my experience. "truth" in this case might be subjective, but it was a helpful discussion nonetheless and props to Justin for addressing this question
@@SonicScoop You're not wrong that some people may have a different experience. But when I look through the list of engineers a majority of the people who stay busy are those who charge $100 or less. I just think that $250 in that market is on the very high end of where you should price yourself to stay competitive.
@@jon0830 I agree that he deserves props for a topic that many people won't discuss. I'm just talking from my experience as a full time freelance engineer. I am on all the major sites and every time I raise my price above $150, the client response drops off. When I stay between $75 and $150 I stay busy. Right now for example I have 6 gigs I am working on. I stay with 3 at the very least. When I raise my price there will be days where I have no work. My fear is that someone who is just starting out will see this and charge that much and wonder why they are not getting much work! I know I could charge more but repeat clients are the lifeblood of this business. I would rather have steady work and charge less than get the occasional gig at $250. To keep new potential repeat clients coming in the door is the most important thing.
How much water do I mix
ALSO, when you call it "MIXING" - does this mean producing a track from scratch? Or what would THAT be called?
Producing? :-)
So do people charge per song and not per hour? I don’t even know how to ask what people charge.
I literally reached out to electric lady studios , Email and call and never even heard back or got to speak to anyone . I had a fair amount of money to throw out, but I don’t know if some studios won’t take random clients or offer anything less than album deals or something to that effect. I’m willing to pay good money for some mixes while I still have money to spend but I want it to be done at A reputable place that I can use as a bit of a good look too
The answer to this question is quite simple: a mix should cost exactly 370usd. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is in fact the only correct answer.
😆
I recently discovered a concept called "Value Based Pricing" - I've mainly seen it discussed in the context of graphic design, brand design, consulant type work, but I see no reason it couldn't apply to the audio world.
Justin Biebers album Purpose sold 14,000,000 copies, orginally for like $17 usd a pop, now they sell on amazon for $10. Just to keep the math simple lets just go with $10. 14 tracks on the album.
So thats $140,000,000.00 just in album sales on the low end. To be extreamly generous yet again lets just say the mix was just 5% of the total album value. That comes out $500,000.00 worth of value per track just on the mix alone. If you're not charging at least 10% of that you're getting robbed. Any business would love to spend 50k and get a return of $450K.
Now if you're working with someone whose last album sold 1000 copies at $10, they have twice as many fans now since their last album, market research shows they will likely sell 2000 copies at $15, for $30,000.00 total. 10 song album, mix 5% of total value - $1500.00 for the album or $150.00 per mix.
Maybe you can't afford to work with someone whose album only sells 2000 copies, or maybe numbers need to include broader revenue streams than just album sales. Maybe it's a rich guy or gal with a vanity project and doesn't matter.
The point being to set pricing based upon the ideally measurable value $ to the client. Rather than assigning your self some arbitrary level of value. Maybe it's a 4 song ep and the artist just wants it to sound the best it possibly could even if it only breaks even or is negative on sales. Totally client/project dependent.
have been overpriced a few times, ended up doin it my self, both the mixing n the mastering because of the poor service. manny engineers out there not having work, and they deserve it. bad attitude, unrealistic expectations and lazy to produce something worthy. asking the artists crazy amounts of money for 1 job, to pay all their month expenses. and what's the most important and no one is talking about it, is the fact that everybody in this biznes demands to be paid in advance. if you dont like it, you have some revisions. if u still dont like it, good luck next time. so happy for all those small kids with big toys that are acting like divas and are missing the point that if the artist is not happy, the song is going nowhere and no profits for him/ her. but who cares, lets rip off the next sucker. what goes around comes around.
Do you mean per song or per album?
Per song!
the people in general, they think that a lower price is a bad product, so. if you dont give you the value of your work, maybe they won't do it.
It’s counterintuitive, but sometimes yes. Increasing prices can actually increase business in the right situation.
I think I need raise my rates. It is time.
artists believe that creating their art shouldn't cost them anything, therefore you should be providing your service for free. No other industry values human labor as little as the music industry. Until artists have the ability to pay 1,500+ a track (and often only when its not their direct funds), they don't want to pay for your services. Its honestly a horrible issue within the community which no longer supports itself, only oneself.
This comment is the most ridiculous thing I've read all week.
WHEN YOU SAY "A MIX" DO YOU MEAN 1 SONG?
Yes when you are working with one song, balancing the many tracks within it, that's mixing 1 song. "A" mix. Hope that makes sense!
-Justin
@@SonicScoop Ok so, these prices you talk about for "a mix" is not what you would charge for producing from scratch? - What would you charge for that? for "producing"..
How much does Andy Schep, CLA, Andy Wallace etc charge ?
1 Bazillion dollars for EQing your High Hat ?
To the moon, huh? ;)
ALL ABOUT THAT DOGE, YO!
@@SonicScoop It's the people's crypto.
What about $5 mixes on fiver?
Here’s your issue, who is going to pay that much? I have a small home studio and my budget for mixing is…………..
I’m not say work should be free, but if you aren’t working with a professional band then why are you charging professional prices??
There are plenty of professional artists, aspiring professionals, and hobbyists or amateurs who still want the quality of a professional sounding release.
It may not the majority of people who make music. But then again, people who can mix to that level of quality aren’t the majority either, so it kind of evens out.
Hope that makes sense,
-Justin
Most of these guys are let Breaking Benjamin, Pink, Swift, or Metallica, so remember who you are actually working for and what’s it’s for…
I think it's best to charge by the hour. Most musicians will take advantage of your time and kindness. Because most musicians are horrible people. 😆
Never again. This is disrespectful for someone’s work ethic.
Fk that. I’m charging 1000 a mix. I stand by my work. I value myself
Nothing is free
You seriously deleted my comment because I disagreed with you? Because I'm in the trenches actually doing this everyday! Wow man, that's crazy!!!
I haven’t deleted any comments on this video. Some comments will get automatically flagged by TH-cam if they include profanity or sometimes if they included links that could look like spam. Hope that helps! -Justin
@@SonicScoop Well it's not here anymore lol. I certainly didn't curse or post any links.