Thanks for this illuminating review. I too had a big problem with Castles with the AP brought on by the pricing of tiles - it's even worse at high player counts when you have to consider a tile's worth to every player. But this sounds much better, and since I don't mind meanness, it might be a good fit for me.
I'm all for not being "horrible" to people whilst gaming and being kind. BUT you are, after all, gaming. I don't take it personally when someone takes an action i wanted or stops me doing something as a part of the game. Footballers play games against each other and are brutal but shake hands again at the end because there's a degree of sportsmanship that goes with the territory. Stopping someone getting points is a part of what the game is about. The bonus you took to "con" Jen into getting the most swans is another part of that - Agricola (a stand out "taking actions to stop people doing things" game) Vikings, Marco Polo and Snowdonia (all in your collection and games you like) all have equally "nasty" elements but you like them. This, to me, is no more harsh than them. But thank you for another great run through and really giving the feel for how the game plays. We'd all be boring if we thought the same - I'm of the opinion Saturday Night by Whigfield is a cigarette paper away from Bob Dylan so what do I know?
Oh you know what's interesting. I think we just like different things about Castles. The Master Builder and anti-suburbia feel of Castles, and the individual castle of your very own at the end were the biggest sellers for me. I think that's why I like your reviews. Even when I disagree with your personal preferences, I always get a good sense of how I'll feel about the game.
Hey Rahdo, thanks for another great review. I am in the same moat 😊 about the cut throat part of games and we tend to not like it. We mainly play 2 player games and I find the mean aspect in 2 player games a lot worse than in a larger multiplayer gaming session where it seems to spread out a lot more and at least to me it doesn't feel quite so personal. Greetings from Bonnie Scotland
Have you tried to play it in that way - you can't block any rooms by your rooms? Moats don't look so bad while you can move them but this variant could be extended for moats to - you can block room by moat only if there's no way to put them without blocking any rooms.
After you explained the moat system, I knew that this wouldn't be a game for me either. I don't mind some cutthroat in games, such as hate drafting/etc. Stealing room tiles from your opponents is awesome in Castles. However, here you get to do exactly what you want to do AND screw your opponent over with the moat, and the fact that it's every completed room is kind of crazy. It's a shame because the swan matching and more varied bonuses is very appealing!
Awww man, systems aside, the unique room shapes in Castles are the biggest attraction for me. Square rooms just seem so dull and crap by comparison. I think if I had never played Castles then this wouldn't be an issue.
IMHO if you are not keen on the moat laying couldn't you just place them far out to the side, where it wouldn't obstruct room building? When playing Catan a friend would always return the robber to the desert or find a tile that would not adversely effect any of us. Looks like an excellent game. Thanks for the review!
Thanks for the review. Do you think suberbia is a out dated design or does it hold up? Castles and palace doesn't really do it for me thematically and my wife loves city building.
Not going to lie, was kind of hoping it would be Suburbia + Carcasonne: The Castle, but c'est las vie, I suppose it just means I can hold on to Suburbia that much longer ;)
Sooooo Palace is "more compelling" than castles because you're working on the same project, but that's the same reason you hate it because that's also the source of the meanness ;)
As a fellow ‘care bear’ I appreciate your thoughts on this game. I like competitiveness but don’t like meanness. It doesn’t look like this one is for me either.
Because Castles of Mad King Ludwig was a massive hit and sits in the top 100 games on BGG while Palace's early review have been fairly luke warm so far. Also I think Palace does away with Castles biggest draw. The idea that you're building your own unique castle and having to work with the puzzle of fitting all these odd shaped rooms together. People are really loving the Tetris type games right now (Patchwork, Cottage Garden, Barenpark, etc) seems like a missed opportunity to just make the tiles in this game squares.
I'm also missing the odd-shaped rooms in this game ... Castles has its flaws, but the quirky and unique personality of each room is a big draw, for me. In Palace, it looks like you are designing a sensible and reasonable estate for a perfectly sane King ... not the sprawling, deathtrap chateaus that a Mad King really ought to expect from his design team.
For some reason I was thinking this was going to be a co-op game. Too bad! The meanness of the market is my main problem with the original. And it takes away my favorite thing--the oddly shaped tiles!
Question: Does this work better for two players than Castles, cutthroat factor aside? I never got Castles, because I felt it would be a game I'd mostly play two player and it didn't look stellar with that player count. I really don't mind this being cutthroat, specially if it's a sure thing to happen. It kind of ceases being a variable. Most people I play with end up laughing about it anyway. The Schadenfreude effect can sometimes be really funny, as long as it's not the same person being ganged up on all the time.
yes, if you don't mind the cutthroatedness, this is imo a much better 2p game than castles. but some people really prefer the small odd shaped room pieces :)
"Insanely cutthroat, totally hose you, and ruin your room, and take that !" (-: ... cut you off at the knees and even rip the knees! damn, harshness!! ... disability inducing ... or even worse, rip the heart out !! (-:
I think it seems so mean because you only play it as a 2 player game. As you add more people, the combative nature of the game gets spread around more so you aren't hurting the same person all of the time. Definitely going in my collection.
From my point of view and within the context of the game, absolutely nothing qualifies as mean since it isn't personal. (Well, except for the rare exceptions where people take the action for out-of-game personal reasons... but that isn't the game's fault at all.) For my opponents, the goal of the game is always to make me lose, and how you go about doing that is completely irrelevant to me. That said, carebears don't bother me except when they are in my gaming group making it harder for me to play some of the games I enjoy. (Even then, it doesn't bother me MUCH because there are still a lot of options... as proven by the carebear in my primary gaming group.) Now as far as THIS game... [sigh]... it looks like just another square tile-laying game. Which is admittedly an interesting genre for the most part, but not nearly as interesting as the puzzle of figuring out how to fit odd shapes into what you're building.
rahdo Hahaha I bet! I will way I am happy you give the game a more objective slant before adding in your personal gaming preferences. I love your reviews :)
Jeebus so much carebear rant even for you. We get it, you hate conflict. Then again, you hating the cutthroat part of the game is probably going to get a lot of people interested in the game.
Shocked is not the right word. We all come to expect carebear from Rahdo. Him crying playing Pandemic is a shocker though. Who cries from a boardgame? Music and movies I can understand, but how do you catch enough feels from a boardgame to make you cry?
Thanks for this illuminating review. I too had a big problem with Castles with the AP brought on by the pricing of tiles - it's even worse at high player counts when you have to consider a tile's worth to every player. But this sounds much better, and since I don't mind meanness, it might be a good fit for me.
I'm all for not being "horrible" to people whilst gaming and being kind. BUT you are, after all, gaming. I don't take it personally when someone takes an action i wanted or stops me doing something as a part of the game. Footballers play games against each other and are brutal but shake hands again at the end because there's a degree of sportsmanship that goes with the territory. Stopping someone getting points is a part of what the game is about. The bonus you took to "con" Jen into getting the most swans is another part of that - Agricola (a stand out "taking actions to stop people doing things" game) Vikings, Marco Polo and Snowdonia (all in your collection and games you like) all have equally "nasty" elements but you like them. This, to me, is no more harsh than them.
But thank you for another great run through and really giving the feel for how the game plays.
We'd all be boring if we thought the same - I'm of the opinion Saturday Night by Whigfield is a cigarette paper away from Bob Dylan so what do I know?
faq.rahdo.com #6 :)
Oh you know what's interesting. I think we just like different things about Castles. The Master Builder and anti-suburbia feel of Castles, and the individual castle of your very own at the end were the biggest sellers for me. I think that's why I like your reviews. Even when I disagree with your personal preferences, I always get a good sense of how I'll feel about the game.
Hey Rahdo, thanks for another great review. I am in the same moat 😊 about the cut throat part of games and we tend to not like it. We mainly play 2 player games and I find the mean aspect in 2 player games a lot worse than in a larger multiplayer gaming session where it seems to spread out a lot more and at least to me it doesn't feel quite so personal. Greetings from Bonnie Scotland
Have you tried to play it in that way - you can't block any rooms by your rooms? Moats don't look so bad while you can move them but this variant could be extended for moats to - you can block room by moat only if there's no way to put them without blocking any rooms.
hehe, i get asked the "what do you think of X variant" question so often, i just added a new entry on my faq about it: faq.rahdo.com #24 :)
After you explained the moat system, I knew that this wouldn't be a game for me either. I don't mind some cutthroat in games, such as hate drafting/etc. Stealing room tiles from your opponents is awesome in Castles. However, here you get to do exactly what you want to do AND screw your opponent over with the moat, and the fact that it's every completed room is kind of crazy. It's a shame because the swan matching and more varied bonuses is very appealing!
Awww man, systems aside, the unique room shapes in Castles are the biggest attraction for me. Square rooms just seem so dull and crap by comparison. I think if I had never played Castles then this wouldn't be an issue.
Thanks Richard, great runthrough
IMHO if you are not keen on the moat laying couldn't you just place them far out to the side, where it wouldn't obstruct room building? When playing Catan a friend would always return the robber to the desert or find a tile that would not adversely effect any of us. Looks like an excellent game. Thanks for the review!
see faq.rahdo.com #6 :)
As one who orders food with negative stars on the spicy scale, I get it. :)
Thanks for the review. Do you think suberbia is a out dated design or does it hold up? Castles and palace doesn't really do it for me thematically and my wife loves city building.
suburbia is still great! :)
Not going to lie, was kind of hoping it would be Suburbia + Carcasonne: The Castle, but c'est las vie, I suppose it just means I can hold on to Suburbia that much longer ;)
Interesting point of view, ty
Sooooo Palace is "more compelling" than castles because you're working on the same project, but that's the same reason you hate it because that's also the source of the meanness ;)
correct
As a fellow ‘care bear’ I appreciate your thoughts on this game. I like competitiveness but don’t like meanness. It doesn’t look like this one is for me either.
I have a feeling your opinion that Palace is superior to Castles is going to be in the minority, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Why? Apart from the auction/drafting, Castles is multiplayer solitaire. Not everyone is a fan of that.
Because Castles of Mad King Ludwig was a massive hit and sits in the top 100 games on BGG while Palace's early review have been fairly luke warm so far. Also I think Palace does away with Castles biggest draw. The idea that you're building your own unique castle and having to work with the puzzle of fitting all these odd shaped rooms together. People are really loving the Tetris type games right now (Patchwork, Cottage Garden, Barenpark, etc) seems like a missed opportunity to just make the tiles in this game squares.
I'm also missing the odd-shaped rooms in this game ... Castles has its flaws, but the quirky and unique personality of each room is a big draw, for me. In Palace, it looks like you are designing a sensible and reasonable estate for a perfectly sane King ... not the sprawling, deathtrap chateaus that a Mad King really ought to expect from his design team.
Atlas Films I
the tiles in Castles are WAY WAY nicer looking.
For some reason I was thinking this was going to be a co-op game. Too bad! The meanness of the market is my main problem with the original. And it takes away my favorite thing--the oddly shaped tiles!
Question: Does this work better for two players than Castles, cutthroat factor aside?
I never got Castles, because I felt it would be a game I'd mostly play two player and it didn't look stellar with that player count. I really don't mind this being cutthroat, specially if it's a sure thing to happen. It kind of ceases being a variable.
Most people I play with end up laughing about it anyway. The Schadenfreude effect can sometimes be really funny, as long as it's not the same person being ganged up on all the time.
yes, if you don't mind the cutthroatedness, this is imo a much better 2p game than castles. but some people really prefer the small odd shaped room pieces :)
Yes, I think I would prefer those too, but on the other hand the Master Builder mechanic with two looks a little too boring.
Hey all - game looks great, group has played Inis, La Granja, Yokohama
Do you think our group would be ok with the “meanness”
"Insanely cutthroat, totally hose you, and ruin your room, and take that !" (-: ... cut you off at the knees and even rip the knees! damn, harshness!! ... disability inducing ... or even worse, rip the heart out !! (-:
sweep the leg, johnny!
I think it seems so mean because you only play it as a 2 player game. As you add more people, the combative nature of the game gets spread around more so you aren't hurting the same person all of the time. Definitely going in my collection.
indeed! see faq.rahdo.com #6 :)
From my point of view and within the context of the game, absolutely nothing qualifies as mean since it isn't personal. (Well, except for the rare exceptions where people take the action for out-of-game personal reasons... but that isn't the game's fault at all.) For my opponents, the goal of the game is always to make me lose, and how you go about doing that is completely irrelevant to me.
That said, carebears don't bother me except when they are in my gaming group making it harder for me to play some of the games I enjoy. (Even then, it doesn't bother me MUCH because there are still a lot of options... as proven by the carebear in my primary gaming group.)
Now as far as THIS game... [sigh]... it looks like just another square tile-laying game. Which is admittedly an interesting genre for the most part, but not nearly as interesting as the puzzle of figuring out how to fit odd shapes into what you're building.
So uh...ever played Diplomacy? ;)
nope. did play game of thrones boardgame once and hated it
rahdo Hahaha I bet! I will way I am happy you give the game a more objective slant before adding in your personal gaming preferences. I love your reviews :)
Jeebus so much carebear rant even for you. We get it, you hate conflict.
Then again, you hating the cutthroat part of the game is probably going to get a lot of people interested in the game.
Also pointing out the meanest helps some of us, myself included, know to avoid this game like the plague.
[Watches opinion video instead of gameplay video; shocked by opinions being presented that don’t align with own opinions.]
Shocked is not the right word. We all come to expect carebear from Rahdo. Him crying playing Pandemic is a shocker though. Who cries from a boardgame? Music and movies I can understand, but how do you catch enough feels from a boardgame to make you cry?