A Gun to Save Lives: Winchester 1886 Line Thrower
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Line-throwing devices have long been an important part of maritime safety, and many different have been guns adapted to launch ropes from shore to ship or ship to ship. Usually they are inexpensive obsolete surplus of the era, but a change in law in 1918 led to a spike in demand for line-throwers in the US. As a result, a number of entrepreneurs put together line-throwing rifle kits. One of these was William Read & Sons, who bought 497 Model 1886 Winchester lever action rifles in .45-70 form the Winchester factory, specifically bored smooth and with barrels cut down the 14.5 inches. They packaged these with line launching projectiles, spools or rope, blank cartridges, and other accessories and sold them commercially. This particular model was used by both the US Coast Guard and Navy as well as private ship owners, and remained in use until after World War Two.
For a tremendous amount of information on line throwers, I highly recommend John Spangler's article "Guns to Save Lives":
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Coastie armorer here, we still use Springfield 1903 line throwing guns, they work wonders. We also have M16a2s with line throwing kits (LTAK) but they aren’t nearly as effective as the 1903.
I suppose the longer barrel and bigger cartridge gives it more oomph? Or is the LTAK an underbarrel thing?
@@MediocreHexPeddler both line canisters are underbarrel. 1903 uses a 7.62 rifle grenade cartridge and has way more ass behind it
Huh. I wonder what a collector would give for a line thrower conversion 1903
would make a nice retirement “bonus”
Interesting line-thrower. On my Navy ship in the early 1980s we used M-14s with the cup grenade thrower using a big black rubber "bullet" carrying the light line. My ET/EW department did line handling for the commincations cable, ftom the signal bridge. One of our guys once failed to take cover, and the line bullet from the oiler hit him on the chest! Knocked him to the deck! Only thing hurt was his pride. 😅
Our smallarms locker actually also had an ancient .45-70 Trapdoor line thrower, but no ammo for it. No idea where that relic came from, as my ship was commissioned in 1973. 😎👍
Yes, check my post.
@KillrMillr7 I saw a 45/70 line gun on the uss alabama
I was an ET as well, on the USNS Kilauea in the mid 90s. Our line thrower was a converted M1, but otherwise similar to your setup. I don't think we ever had anyone get hit, but I recall the "bullet" coming loose from the line a couple of times and the line just dropping into the water.
USS Frank Cable had one of those M-14s with for line throwing as late as 2010, i left the boat in spring of 2011 so im not sure if they still do
I had a similar experience but about 10 years earlier and our Tapdoor line thrower was still in use. We also had the M-14 units but many of the ‘old salts’ did not trust the ‘newfangled’ units continuing to use the Trapdoors. BTW, I am referring these as ‘units’ for a reason… shooting a weapon at another ship regardless of intent is consider an ‘act of aggression’ and the Navy always wanted make sure it could not be accused of this so we were told to never refer to the line thrower as that could misconstrued (ie not a gun, rifle, weapon etc.) 😮
Imagine your relief at seeing people coming to rescue you from your foundering ship only to be impaled by a 2 foot harpoon by accident…….
Clearly you didn't watch the video before posting this comment.
Concussion
@@jasonphillips8552I don’t know if this is your first time coming across what the rest of us know as “humor”, but if it is, then congratulations.
@@jasonphillips8552I did, but I conveniently ignored part of it to make a joke. A joke, by the way ,is a statement designed to elicit a humorous reaction by subverting the listener/readers expectation by substituting an unexpected element in place of the normally accepted one. For example:
“ question: where does Jason Phillips get water from?
Answer: from a ‘Well, actually….”
How could anyone not get this is a joke? You certainly don't need to watch the whole vid to understand this. Wtf?
This episode reminds me of a story, I was coming out of the chow hall onto the flight deck to smoke when I was immediately accosted by a Navy Chief. He immediately thrusted an M14 into my hand, of which I’d never fired in my life, proceeded to tell me to shoot the line over to the resupply ship, onreps we called it. I said, can I smoke my cigarette too, he exclaimed I don’t care, just don’t miss. Life in the Corps and it’s surprises.
Well don't stop there: what happened? Did you get the line to them?
Seriously, don't leave us hanging, lol.
You’ve only told half a story. What happened?
@@PoshBeard he's finishing his cigarette
How did the story end?
When I was working for Kmart 20 years ago, we had a special order program. In our catalog, we had a Mossberg 500 in nickel with a fluorescent orange stock and handguard that had a metal rod and orange buoy with line to shoot with blanks. I think it was around $400 at the time.
When I was in the Navy in the 1990s, we used a converted M1 Garand for a line throwing gun. I got the honor of doing it a few times.
"Five bucks if you can hit that Lieutenant."
"Oh, you're on."
The wooden stock on that rifle is beautiful
I was thinking that too.
I'm surprised he didn't mention it. It almost has a sparkle to it.
Damn, heavy steel rod with rope a couple hundred yards? Those guns must pack a hell of a punch
My local fire department has one of these that they’ve kept locked up in storage for many years after switching to a CO2 powered line launcher. Ours think was 38 caliber instead of 45, but I don’t recall. The reason for the switch was that last time they used it, they launched the line a little too high and sent it over the river, over a restaurant 200 yards or so past the other bank, over the church next door, and then a roadway before the rod embedded itself in a tree. I’d guess it had to have gone about 600 or so yards maybe a little more from the point of firing. Kinda wish I was there to witness it. The CO2 one by contrast was a shorter distance thrower with a soft tip, you could literally aim it right for the person in distress and not kill them.
The mental image of the dude drowning just seeing this thing rocket past is great
simple solution would be a shorter line, as the length of line tends to be what limits range...
@@lucimon97 my thought was more of. walking down the road. then sudenly a tree gets impailed by a rod with a line on it.
@@svenblubber5448 Then you'd have the force of that sudden stop transferred through the line into the shooter's fingers. Rifles aren't all that well suited to handling reverse recoil.
The range described sort of implies the line broke.
Fun Fact: The Naval Company still sells a line-throwing gun today called the Bridger Model 85! It's based on a single-shot break action shotgun.
Edit: after a bit of research I have found out that the gun does not use shotgun shells but ironically blank 45/70 cartridges. However, the Naval Company only recommends you buy the ammo exclusively from them so I do not know if they are customized at all (or just want you to spend extra money to buy the ammo from them lol.)
I also found a video of it in action if you guys are curious: th-cam.com/video/vn3nz9z9-h0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hrp_h0uGm03gMVFJ
Why didn't they use a cheap shotgun in the early 20th century too? Was it because lightweight polymer lines hadn't been invented yet, so they needed that 30,000 PSI to project a heavier line?
The company still based in Doylestown Pa?
@@graysonsnyder5048 Yep! I grew up around that area, and if I remember correctly it's run out of somebody's house, with a tiny warehouse in the back.
What’s the range? Thanks
@@solomonknew1117 Up to 700ft according to their demo video.
When I was in the Navy at sea and we refueled the supply ship would use these, but the ones we used had a ball at the front and was fired directly at the ship. We simply ducked behind something and then grabbed it.
What did they use when you were in and when? When I was in we used the M-14. Does anyone know if that's still what they use?
@@weedwacker1716 I served in the early 80's and the M-14 was used then. I got out in 84, so I have no idea what is used today.
That doesn't seem OSHA compliant
Adds a little excitement to the proceedings 😳
@@G-Mastah-Fash
“military personnel and uniquely military equipment, systems, and operations." were excluded from OSHA's jurisdiction by Presidential Executive Order (EO) 12196, which was issued in 1980.
Last I saw they are still using the M14 as the launcher. Saw many a sailor on the receiving ship do a little dance after not taking cover or having the weight ricochet into them after hitting the superstructure
6:37 the energy of these couple of seconds
That is the exact opposite of a forgotten weapon, that is a unforgettable weapon!
Former Navy here. We used an M-14 with a line throwing kit fir UNREPs, Underway Replenishment. We'd send two lines across, forward and aft for our fuel receptacles. The resupply ship would send one over to us for wired, ship to ship comms.
The linevrheowung adapter for the M-14 consisted of a barrel attachment for a big, rubber projectile connected to a spool of red line, usually held by someone.
If it ever came down to rescuing someone then we'd send one of our RHIBs out with a rescue swimmer.
In Germany we use a modified G3 for that. Spool is below the barrel:
www.bundeswehr.de/resource/image/3454852/landscape_ratio16x9/2000/1125/b171df80d1bee352b719e9b37c28979a/84FC5B6546B1A75F4F0A8BBB7934FE04/ein-soldat-mit-einem-gewehr.jpg
When I was in the German navy, we used a early wooden stock G3 with an adapted rifle grenade launcher for the purpose to get a line across for Replenishment at Sea or for just exchanging mail
The modern usage of line-throwing apparatus is primarily during underway replenishment at sea operations. This is commonly done while fleets are deployed. As a former sailor, both in the Navy and then as a civilian, I participated in thousands of these operations.
As late as the 90's, any old guns specifically made for line-throwing were long since out of actual use. For line throwing, there was (and likely still is) an adapter for the M-14 rifle, which fires a rubber projectile about the size of a can of soup, which draws a spool of shot line, a thin nylon cord smaller in diameter than para-cord. This is tied to a pre-messenger, a line similar to what you now have tied to your dart. The pre-messenger is tied to the messenger, I think 1-1/4 diameter nylon line, which is then fastened to a wire rope with fitting. This wire rope is attached and put under tension, and pulley supporting hoses or pallet rigs slide across between ships.
In the early years I saw a few single purpose line-throwing guns still in inventory aboard some merchant ships, but they were single shot guns, and not Winchester. Those ships all had Breeches Buoy rig in storage, and when I left there was still the placard somewhere on the ship showing how to rig the rescue device. Though unlikely to be used, this is still a viable rescue means that under some circumstances could be necessary.
From those days the funniest story I have relating to shot line firing, is from trying to hook up with an aircraft carrier during fairly heavy seas and high winds in the southern Indian Ocean.
Because of the flight deck overhang, the Carrier always fires the shot line to the supply ship. In this instance, the gunner's mate (red hard hat) firing the gun was twice unable to get the shot line across because of wind and distance. So the officer in charge called over a bigger gunner's mate, as if that would make the gun shoot farther. It didn't.
As an active coastie I appreciate this video a lot.
I never thought id hear my hometown's name in a forgotten weapons video lol. Hello from Doylestown PA!
Line throwing with Rockets was a big thing in Germany too. The breeches buoy was called „Hosenboje“. Literally a 1 to 1 translation.
So THAT's what the V2s were for :D
@@MrEvan312 do you really think we considered throwing a life line to the biggest pirate island in history?
It's very fascinating how some guns got converted into line-throwing devices, it gives them another unique purpose and that Winchester 1886 repeating rifle is exquisite to look at.
A buddy of mine used a 16 gauge shotgun line thrower in the '60' s on a destroyer escort. Whenever they pulled aircrew out of the drink, they sent them back to their shop this way.
trying to decide whether that's bad-ass or a little embarrassing from the point of view of the pilot
@@acomingextinction He told me it was usually the crews of the helicopters that were launched to recover fixed wing pilots.
My dad served on the USS Rochester between ‘55-‘59. At one point his job was shooting the line thrower. He told me on one occasion he had a Jr. officer telling him to shoot. My dad told him it was too early. “Shoot, thats an order” he was told. The line wrapped around the radar spinning thing on the other ship and disabled it. The Jr. officer tried to have my dad court marshaled but they had a guest on board that day, some admiral, that had heard the idiotic order and came to my dads defense.
Who knew a gun could be so helpful in saving lives...and launching ropes? Talk about multitasking!
imagine using this as a grapple hook
Cowboy Batman
Check out the Roman harpax
@@stunmiDamn. Took my comment.
We do. We had grappling hooks designed to fit onto the muzzle of our M16/M4 in our breaching kits for clearing wire during an assault. You would launch them with a blank and they had a range of about 30 meters. That's still damn close when you're taking fire but it allows you to set off boobytraps in the breach lane when you drag it back before breaching the wire itself.
IIRC the Rangers in WW2 used line throwing devices with grappling hooks to get up cliffs but I'm almost certain those were the rocket type.
We use the navy brigadier model for stringing, high-voltage, powerlines, across canyons, rivers, and such
When I was in the Navy my ship had what I think was a single barrel HR break open short rifle. A rod was inserted in the barrel with a small plastic float device on the end. When coming to a foreign port the deck crew would fire a small line attached to a large hawser on to the crew on the dock to feed out the large hawser for tying up the ship. Occasionally they would definitely take a shot at the pier crew.
I worked on US built and US owned, but Panamanian flagged vessels We only carried oil field supplies out to rigs. That was all we did. We had to tie up sometimes for hours, so we used heaving lines with a monkey's fist at the front. If we weren't there for long the skipper used to hold the boat away from the rig using the thrusters. I never knew about the change in US law. Many thanks for this fascinating device's history.
The Argentine Navy used old Remington Rolling Blocks (colloquially called Remington Patria) for that function for a time. I don't know what they'll wear today. Greetings from Argentine Patagonia.
You're an OG if you watched this video when it was still called "A Guns to Save Lives"
Another interesting and unique listing! So cool!
God bless all here.
The Royal Canadian Navy user older C7 ( AR 15) rifles fitted with a cup and orange furniture.
I bet AR collectors don’t have that version in their collection
Nice, it is featured in the article by John Spangler 😊
You'd bet wrong. Whenever I find any such less lethal or resque type thing, forearm or other wise I try my best to get it. I have several old linethrowers, one is a converted french blunderbuss, converted from a St. Entienne 1818 I believe. So many markings and not much info.
BEAUTIFUL !!!
ALL firearms are truly works of art 🎨
Nice piece....lovely.
A beautiful rifle converted for a good purpose.
Love to see it!
"You're supposed to launch it *over* the ship, not *into* it"... and now I have a mental image of an open ACME INC. box, and Wiley E. Coyote doing something massively hilarious with an anvil attached by a line to the line thrower...🤣
Cool piece of... well, not fully just a history from the sound of it. It would be awesome to hear that on some newer vessels some people still rock 1886 rifles.
Thanks for this one Ian. Being involved in Replenishment at Sea regularly for work, it's great to see an earlier version of what we use now.
Cool bit of history.
a great very interesting video and fire arm/rifle/shooting device Mr.GJ.have a good one.
Trivia: The light line carried by the projectile is called a 'messenger'.
ALSO, until helicopters came along, breeches buoys or similar (high line) systems were used to transfer people between ships--a possibly wet, wild (or even fatal) ride!
...and always described as "character building"
@@18robsmith 🫨🤣
I would imagine, with that length and mass of rod, that would have a lot of recoil.
Interestingly, the Naval Company, Doylestown PA, is still in business today and still making line throwing equipment. "the U.S. Coast Guard approved Model CG85 Bridger Line Throwing Gun Kit, used for line deployment or line throwing, life saving, and access solutions..."
The only US Navy line throwing rifle I've ever seen in person was an M14 in an EBR chassis on the CVN 77 like 12 years ago, I was amused when they told me what they used them for at the time.
Very interesting. Thanks. ... Jim Bell (Australia)
Having the magazine tube in place makes perfect sense: instead of trying to reload the gun with a single blank in pouring rain to throw another line, you have them already safely in the magazine. Reduces the chance of dropping the cartridges into the sea or something as stupid.
has magazine tube
also is smoothbore
sounds like it could have been a winchester lever action shotgun!
the m1887?
Nice to see the auction house again
The idea of using firearms technology to perform a task besides just flinging bullets was always cool to me. It's like, "Hmm, what should we use to propel this object? Tensed rubber? Catapult? Compressed air? NOPE MINI PIPE BOMB WOOO"
The stories in this comment section are fantastic.
first time I hear that line throwers were used to sea rescue missions :) I am ex-finnish navy sergeant and we had these on all ships, but never ever I have heard this use for line thrower, Usually they were used on really bad weather if you gotta get heavy towing rope or cable wire from ship ro an other - or from ship to pier in case the weather is so bad it in dangerous to get ship with it.s own power to pier this concerns smaller ships - the really big ones need tug to assist - and line throwers are used to get towing cables from ship to tug if needed. Ships or other naval vessiles have life boats or rafts which are usually used to personel from ship to shore,
I had a Mauser style line Thrower rifle from an American made Norwegian oil tanker melted in Turkey either in '60s or '70s, it's a shame I gave it away to relatives
@6:45 imagine seeing that in a action movie, protag fires a line thrower and it spikes a pirate, the grapple opens up on the other side and is pulled to the wall. lol
Back in 1976 threw 1980 I was on the uss inchon lph 12 spring of 1978. Anyway we would shoot a line to our 2 escort ships a destroyer, USS spruence and a fast frigget USS Valdez. We were the big ship of the 3 so we carried the fuel to refuel the escort ships. I wasn't the gun afisinaro I am today so I couldn't say what type of gun was used. It was a shorter sized shoulder gun seemed like it was a shot gun of some sort. They would fire a rope across to other ship,then it would be tied off and a larger line was tugerd across until they could actually send a gas line across. Man this was done daily if I recall correctly . It seemed like it was dome a lot
A LONG time ago Ian did a video on the Greener Carbine which looked alot like this.. It was not a line throwing device but a mini-harpoon, based on the Martine-Henry; In fact exactly the model used in a little known movie called JAWS.
Love the US people. No joke. We need a line throwing devise. A gun it is
4:44 Doing stuff along these "lines" : D
I have a manual from my time in the Navy for the M16 - M14 line throwing kit and this Winchester is in there too! Awesome to finally see a video of one!
Ian, I recently scored an octagonal Winchester barrel while helping a friend move, and I am having a hard time narrowing down the date. It has several markings, the most obvious is "Manufactured by the Winchester repeating arms co. New Haven conn. USA" on the top side, but also marked with the caliber, "38-55" both top and bottom. On the bottom are several small stampings, near the underside caliber mark, next to the threading, there is a single letter, either "M" or "W". A little further towards the muzzle, there is an "F" stamped. A few inches from that, the VP oval stamp, and finally, about five inches past the VP oval, the number "94" . Near as I can tell, it's from a model 1894, firing the 38-55 cartridge. I believe it may be before they made the switch to smokeless powder, as it is NOT marked "Nickel steel barrel especially for smokeless powder", but I wanted to ask you your opinion and consult your expertise. Any insight would be a great help.
Check out the cinnabar TH-cam channel. He has a couple videos on Winchester barrels and receivers. The serial number will tell when it was made. 38-55 is the parent cartridge for 30-30.
Commercial ammo should work fine. Looking at ammoseek it looks like cowboy action ammo is available, and at less than $2.00 ea. My 38-55, m1894 was built in 1896.
William Read & Son was located in Boston and was in the gun business for many years. They produced muzzleloading shotguns/fowlers (among other things) in the first half of the 19th century.
Very impressive 😮
“Most shipwrecks occur close to shore’. Well, if it’s not close to shore, it’s just ‘a ship lost at sea’ otherwise
Nice background Ian 😊
I would have thought they would have used something like a Springfield Trapdoor. Like a falling block action.
Very strong action .with a large bore And you only need a single shot.
Most merchant ships today use prepackaged pyrotechnic units. Looks like an oversized coffee can with a handle. They have a shelf life and then are disposed of. (often in practice).
Ian: Let's look at this Winchester 1886 Line Thrower...
Me: Stares at MG42 for 7m 52s
Nice
Terminator 2 would have been a lot shorter if Arnie had one of these in the bike chase.
That tool/gun has better wood and fit that 99% of the crap filling shops today.
In rod we trust
Best Gun Ever
when i got out in '05, the navy was still using M14s with a cup on the muzzle that holds a rubber bullet-like device with a metal base plate. they used a red string i would describe as a heavy parachute cord.
i have no details on the type of round used when firing it.
3:34 The stock is stock.
Ian on another upload streak!
In Rod we trust!
Supposedly A.P.S. in Phoenix has a few of those for shooting a lines across canyons for electrical line work.
thatd kick!
So, kind of an ancestor to the grappling gun Ripley uses to kick the xenomorph out of the shuttle.
The latest line thrower I have seen used by the Navy was a converted M14.
Great 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
The fourteen-and-half inch hex barrel looks so good, just take the straight-grip and put the curved grip on it and boy howdy, id be a cowboy
Ahoy, mateys!
"The rear end of the gun is completely stock..." I see what you did there.
In the RAN (I was serving in the 80's and early 90's) our line throwers were FN/FALS with a muzzle attachment launching what EVERYONE called the "Dildo" A large red and yellow plastic and rubber projectile...
After the Trapdoor Springfield was decommissioned and sold surplus, many of them were converted to line-throwers through WW1 and earlier. A lot were converted to Harpoon guns for whaling too. The reason was simple: they were suitable to easy conversion, they were plentiful, and mostly they were extremely cheap to acquire in a world where repeating arms had long ago took over. The British empire did similar with their Martini-Henry for the same reasons. Later on other surplus arms were used because that already had them on hand. I can't fathom why '86 Winchesters were used for this as none of the advantages I listed apply to them- especially cost!
Ooh- the recoil must have been something!
Would love to have seen the blanks.
Lol. Im glad you specified. I was thinking you actually shot the dart into the side of the ship.
There is, or maybe was as I haven't heard anything about them in a while, a heavy line throwing cannon designed to do just that.
The idea was, under extreme conditions it might be impossible for the crew on a vessel in trouble to go out on deck to receive the line. So how do you attach a towing cable? With a converted whaling harpoon cannon, firing a special through-hull harpoon designed to penetrate the half inch steel plates of a typical commercial ship hull. The tip of the harpoon would then hinge sideways into a T shape and lock itself in. One was supposed to aim for the chain locker at the bow of the ship, where you can be fairly certain of not hitting any people.
@@Kaboomf And if you wanted to save a battleship you'd get a disappointing "plink" and see the harpoon yeet of in a random direction with a bent tip.
Fascinating!
A compressed-air cannon would make sense.
Know to happen on Merchant ships. DIY mortars to send heaving lines ashore. Heaving line are attached to much heavier mooring lines which must be in place befor the shipnactualy touches the wharf. But dont worry being hit by ball of rope wont kill you! But getting mixe up with the line attache to an 80,000 t of incoming ship will
The Irish Naval Service still uses FALs as line-throwers. I have heard that the Royal Navy also has retained SLRs for the same purpose.
6:50 well then the line is already attached to that person....
It would be hard to RAS another ship without the gun line to get things going!
hammies are like: antenna thrower.
Several Martini action versions of these. Greeners made them I think presumably others were conversions.
Was active duty Navy until 2010, and...during the 2005-2008 timeframe.....watched several UNREPs (underway replenishments) to my ship using M-14 for line-throwing. My guess would be that it's remains the predominant (probably only) model in use for this function....
That would be a cool hunting rifle
Ian, how does that fall under the NFA for ownership?
A couple hundred of them are specifically exempted by serial number.
Thanks for asking - and thanks to Ian for answering. I was scrollimg through the comments hoping to find this answer.
Simple is effective as born out by the fact that they were still in use in WW2 some 50 years later.
Don't quote me on this, but I believe a current use is to refuel ships at sea. They send the lighter line, attach a heavier line, and then send a long hose over to the ship which will then pump fuel through it to the other ship.
At least I think they still do that. I'm not sure how else they'd do it today, but that's how they used to do it.
really short magazine tube for the size of the harpoon, what are you gonna do load it manually each time like a cavemusketeer?
Ian you haven’t talked about parlor pistols in a bit