Flooring over a concrete slab- batten system
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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YYYYEEEEHAAAWWW we have just hit over 150,000 views on this vid !!!! So happy its been of use to SOOOO many folks out there.
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In this Vid we look at the batten system used to lay a good quality solid timber floor over an existing slab. Its critical that we look at the BEST way that we can do this so as to allow the timber to breath as well as ensure structural adequacy well into the future.
#stayawesome #timberfloor #flooring #howto #wulfinstitute #hottradie
What about laying a plastic vapor barrier over the concrete then putting your wood batton system on that?
You can do this yet you run the risk of allowing a moisture to build up on the plastic and then create Mould under the boards.
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders because of condensation?
yep, exactly.... this is why we seal the slab or any masonry
G'day! I wonder if you could give me some advice. My house has a split level living space with the lower part 2-steps lower (350mm) and I want to raise up that lower part of floor area. It's on concrete slab and it's quite a big area (5 X 3 meters). I searched and viewed a lot of videos and yours is quite informative but obviously it's a different scenario so I can't do what you did here. With that height difference I wonder if I will have to go with bears and joists or some kind of footing... Any advice is much appreciated! 🤘
I’m going to be doing a small SIP panel extension soon. I was planning on doing the flooring a very similar way. Dig holes for the concrete pads where I’ll insert cement filled waste pipe with a metal thread in the centre of it so lay the wooden posts across the pads similar to the video. This should work great, what do you think?
Can you insulate in a low batten system like this?
only with a thin aircell-breathable insulation. don't use a Polymere or material insulation
@@BeowulfBuilders like Ametelin Silverfloor?
The batten system is a good idea, however, it is not suitable for all situations. We currently have a carpeted family room on a slab which is a high traffic area to other parts of our home. We wanted to replace the carpet with floorboards as we are always having to professionally clean the carpet, however, as we have an adjoining kitchen with a tiled floor, it won't work as the wooden floor on battens would raise the level of that room and create a STEP where they meet.
Gday Ausfan100,
There are a number of ways to skin the cat.... this is only one of them.
One on the best ways we have found to keep the floor as low to the floor height as possible; you can seal the slab x 3 with an approved concrete sealer & then use a marine grade ply over the slab.... this then will need to be fixed down with "Knock in pins" & construction glue.
From there you use the ply as a sub-straight and put flooring or carpet etc over the top.
#stayawesome
Joe joe
What kind of caulking did you use between the shimmed areas under the battens?
How did you apply it so it wouldn' t run out the sides?
Did you just apply caulking at the outer edges of the battens?
Is the caulking necesaary between the shims under the battens or couod you just use more shims so it won' t flex and just caulk the shims?
plastic packers, cement sheet, malfoid, bitumen, anything that reduced the chance of moisture or movement
I have an incredibly uneven limecrete slab, lumpy, with differences of over 10cm within 2m in parts.
Its a bit of a nightmare.
The major thing about this floor is that it must remain breathable. I cannot seal it, as breathability is part of the design of the whole structure.
Is this just a matter of me using your method, minus the seal? If my house is designed to breathe, perhaps the flow of moisture wouldnt result in mould?
Would be very grateful for your input.
gday
there are many things to unfold with this information.
all homes are breathable and should be controlled.
that being said, yes, you do need to be very conscious of the Mould or condensation that builds up in a house & where is can.
the way this is done is to allow air flow & breathability without hindering any thermal performance
Hey, have looked all over yr channel but cant see the vids for batten to slab fixing. can you gimme a hand? Thanks dudes.
You're on it
Watched a million similar videos but yours made the most sense, thank you! Looking to do a similar set up in my garage for a partial conversion. I see you used wood shims to level the battens. Since the shims aren't pressure treated, is that still the preferred method over using plastic shims? I'm concerned my shims may rot or split when installing concrete anchors through them.
Gday Jordan,
The timber is treated pine and the slab has been sealed before we start to batten it.
Yes, there are a number of ways you can "Pack" the battens into place, use your smarts when it comes to knowing your build, the dead load or live load traveling over it and the need to understand the "Living space use" after the floor has been done.
By thinking and preempting the use of the area, you are able to get more into the sub floor structure and use and longevity of your hard earned work and money.
#stayawesome
joe joe
So is this still applicable if u live in the Caribbean where there is zero snow, asking bacuse I've never herd this in my region before
Build your home for your environment... i dont know enough about the weather patterns in your area to answer that
#stayawesome
My contractor left me with a 45”x53” concrete slab leading to a side door. The slab is tilting towards the house because of old roots from an ash tree. He left me enough treated 4x4 joists for support but I’m at a loss for leveling and grading the decking away from the house as it needs raising on the horizontal and lowering going away from the house. Are there self adjusting brackets that I can use or perhaps pavers at least directly under the door? Thanks.
Gday Stan,
Yep, there are adjustable brackets specially made for joists or bearers & there are also "Foot Systems" that are used for paving areas now.
alternatively you could run a free floating area with a perimeter beam and infill it with joists. this way you don't need to worry about the tilting slab now and into the future.
#stayawesome
Uncle joe joe
What would you use to seal the cement floor with. Please ca. I use the baton system and then have eve underfloor heating over that and tiles sorry a few questions there thanks
Gday Mee5ful,
apologies, but i dont understand your questions.
if you give me a little more understanding of your question ill try to answer it for you
#stayawesome
joe joe
Looking to do this in my sunroom on an unleveled slab. The slope can go up to 3 inches at the far end though. Is it still fine to use an adhesive from the batten to the concrete when the gap is that tall? And is there a type of shim that works best?
you will still need to fix them. glue is a type of fixing but its inferior to screws or similar
Thanks for sharing, exactly what I needed to know! Random question, but are you Sal Vulcanos brother? You guys look-a-like.
Thanks HEAPS Leroy,
not sure who Sal Vulcanos is but must be VERY good looking.
#Stayawesome
joe joe
What kind of plastic did you use to put between the shims and the concrete?
Plastic packers from the hardware store or cement sheet and malfoid
#Stayawesome
Can you glue the batten down directly to a concrete slab in a 5th floor flat without the need for screwing down due to complaints by neighbours and noise levels?
Gda yGreg,
Building in existing apartments can be a night mare yet there are times you are allowed to work and make improvements....especially if it benefits your neighbors (better acoustic management)
There is an ability to "Adhere/Glue" the battens down and this system NEEEDS to use a specialist construction glue or/& system.
Some manufactures of construction products make a specialist system to suit something similar yet i don't think its as good as taking hte time to do it properly.
First cleaning the entire area with the vacuum then mop, seal the entire slab (this gives something for the construction adhesive to bond to), lay out the battens, cut everything to suit, then glue and install.
The BIGGEST problem with this is the ability to HOLD the batten in position.... the slab won't be perfectly flat and can wave (go up and down) over the area of the apartment. To get this level and flat we will need to "Fix" the batten into position as you can see in the vid.
#stayawesome
joe joe
#1 I believe there should be insulation under the floor, either fiberglass loose Styrofoam or spray foam. Does the space have to breath? I am also concerned about insects or mice getting under the floor in the empty space, spray foam would help stop that.
the area defiantly needs to breath & air flow is a priority unless you're following the Passive haus protocol in which the entire building envelope is sealed & controlled via a computer.
Rodents are always a problem and we have been known to put in additional wire mesh to keep them out of making homes in the insulation.
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders How do you get air to flow under that flooring?
Hi, I have a floor slab to install with old pine floor boards to go back (trying to find a engineered pine board). There will be a wet ufh system in the top 40mm screed. How could I fix the batons in place; could they be just be glued onto the slab? Obviously not keen on screwing the batons in place.... Thanks from the UK
Gdayyyyy James,
From the other side of the world !!
Thanks for your question.... We have done a number of these systems when we were in the UK and Europe, yet only a few in Aussie land. Hope fully we understand this correctly.... you are getting a screed over the top of an existing floor at 40mm thick which will contain a hydronic heating system....are we correct so far ?!
If so keep reading,,,, as the pipe is being installed take as many photos as possible and get your installers to run them at 75-90mm spacing (take as many photos and measurements as you can or draw yourself a floor plan wit has much detail as possible)
Once the screed has gone off or cured (5 days min) then seal it with a concrete sealer or/and tar paint x 3 coats. you will then need to install ply sheeting over the top of the screened area. (ply 9mm thickness min, yet a 15-18mm is best.) this is your sub straight and the ply will give you a stable base (this is instead of a batten system) as well as help disperse the thermal properties of the concrete mass more evenly throughout the floor area.
Next is to Ensure you glue down the ply as you go (construction adhesive NOT liquid nails !!!) and knock in's or screws BETWEEN you hydronic system (this is where the photos and plan come into it !!
NOW you have a system that will help with thermal comfort and efficiency as well as adding longevity to your system.
Stay Awesome
joe joe
No more nails, leave it 48hrs to dry and screw and fix the floor to the batten, use screws no longer than the thinness or the battening and sub floor combined for u don't damaged the ufh system
Hi,
What’s the minimum thickness of batten that you can use? My boards are around 20mm thick and was hoping to be able to do a 20mm batten.
Thanks
Gday C Robbo,
really depends on the type of level your floor is running at.
if the slab was flat and level id seal it and run ply over it then my floor ontop, if its out of level than id use the batten system and 35-30 mm would be the minimum
#stayawesome
joe joe
Thanks for your reply
Nice video...most important step is levelling of the battens..which you skipped.. just sayin.
Gday Andrew,
i have heaps of vids on leveling up joists and sub floor systems.... please look these up.
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders just had a batten on concrete flooring job installing 133mmx19mm Radiata Pine ...i got the sliding bottom door trim height wrong and had to rip 6mm of 32×45 victorian ash battens down to 26×45mm...a 26tooth Diablo blade on a $99 Ozito table saw did the trick...battens Maxim concrete anchors at 450 centres, battens at 450 cetres, boards 45mm secret stapled every second joist with a 1cm bead of Parfix adhesive , then 38mm top Tnailed at every joist....This floor solid as a rock...
FUNTASTIC work Andrew !!!
#stayawesome
Hi uncle JoJo.
So you use a spaghetti screw system right? What’s the recommended spacing? Would dynabolts be an option I can countersink them?
Also you lay the blue h2f framing timber as well?, looks like you’re using 70x45mm and lay it horizontally right? To get more height would it be ok to lay and nail 140x45 vertically across the horizontal battens and tie them up with noggins?
Gday Robin,
The recommended spacing is 450mm centers (1&1/2 foot) and yes you can Dynabolt yet the heads can be hard to get to if you countersink for adjustment.
The noggining idea you have his fantastic if you put the timber upright, just be very carful on hte bounce of the subfloor frame due to spanning issues etc.
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders Thanks! Also, what’s the recommended spacing between battens?
@@BeowulfBuilders one last question uncle jojo. When you say a mungo or spaghetti screw system do you mean masonry raw plugs? Or is it different? What gauge screws do you recommend? Thanks!
450mm or 1&1/2 foot
Gday Again Robin,
Yes, masonary raw plugs are the same.
there are many different types and thicknesses yet my fav is the RAMSET plugs with holding lugs half way down.
12 gauge batten (bugel / batten screw) is a fav with 6.5mm (1/4inch) spaghetti
#stayawesome
joe joe
Does the concrete need to be even and level before flooring with the batten system? Planning to lay floor in the garage (not decided what material yet) and the current concrete ground is quite uneven.
Also, brilliant channel and great videos!
Gday Nithya,
Great Question and thanks for your feed back.
No, the concrete doesn't need to be even and level to do a battern system YET the top of the BATTENS need to be flat and even with each other at the end..... you may not be able to get the battens level though (this is subject to step ups/downs, details, flashings, marry-ins etc, YET flat and even is a MUST)
if the slab is in the garage you will NEED to seal this as most garage slabs have no plastic or vapor barrier underneath it which can cause MEGA headaches to your timber floor if the moisture content changes (Video coming up on this soon)
Regarding flooring in a garage area; just my opinion, but i strongly suggest using solid timber floor boards as your finished floor as you can always sand it back and recoat it if you need ot bring it up to new again.
Stay Awesome
uncle joe joe
Hi Jojo I've got a 1950s lean-to on my house and am pretty sure the concrete slab here does not have a waterproof membrane - ie it's been laid straight on the ground. So will sealing it with two-pac be enough to then lay the batons on? I'm thinking I'll have to use lightweight steel struts/C-purlins on the concrete floor, as a base for the timber floor? what do you think? thanks
oh, and ventilate that space underneath..
Gday Sue,
Yes the sealing of the slab will help but it wont be perrrrrrfect. there is the ability of the moisture to run up into the flooring above yet your idea of the timber battens on the slab over the concrete seal would be my choice. this is so the transfer of the cold slab doesn't push into the timber floor along with the fixing system that you will need to employ. of course there is hte height that you need to suit also, which will play a part in the better way to marry the system together #stayawesome joe joe
Great point thanks I hadn't thought of cold transfer through the steel (Goulburn). So placing the timber batons on those plastic window Packers should also help to prevent moisture transfer through the timber batons. Sounds workable....
im not just really really really good looking.....
Great vid. What do you use as shims to level the battens?
There are many different ways to do this but we have found the timber batten screws and treated pine work well to adjust as well as stay super sturdy
Cheers for the info, I’ve got an old little diary I want to renovate and that’s basically the idea I was going to use to floor over the terribly uneven concrete
Awesome idea JYE Traval,
Just make sure you seal the concrete slab first ... sealing the slab reduces the moisture transfer
#stayawesome
joe joe
Will that room get cold during cold temps because it's over the slab without insulation? Just curious
Grouse question Matthew Kimball,
When the timber flooring is separated from the concrete like this it allows the timber to become the ambient temperature of the inside living space rather then if the timber was directly stuck to the slab/concrete then the transfer of the ground temperature (cool masonry temperature) would be transferred into the timber.
Still air that is able to breath is the key here and is the key to good instillation, yet if we had of put insulation batts in between the timber and the concrete then mold would have a likely chance to produce and create a "sick" environment
#stayawesome
uncle joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders makes sense about the mold. I moved onto a home that enclosed a back patio and built the floor raised off the cement patio slab about 2 feet and they put tile for the flooring walls and ceiling have insulation and there are heat vents but the room gets super cold like 50-60 cold in winters outside temp 25-35. The tile just radiates cold. What do you do to help keep that room warm? If anything. It's crazy cause our basement slab isn't even as cold as the raised floor tile. Anyway
@@MultiGoodriddance that is the cool air radiating around the slab, if the basement was heated then that heat would rise and eventually absorb into the flooring area
#stayawesome
joejoe
Hi uncle JoJo, me again.
Would it be ok to use cut offs of compressed cement sheeting as shims? Also for a bit more protection against the damp could you use a damp proof membrane over the sealed concrete? To seal the slab I was thinking of using a tub Dunlop damp proof waterproofing from Bunnings, would that be ok?
Thanks
Gday Again,
Sealing the slab is ALWAYS a GREAT idea & a membrane is another grouse way to complement the seal. Just don't use a HIGH VOC solvent based sealer or membrane as this can add harmful VOC's top the living space
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders Gday JoJo. I'm laying a 150 mm,Hoop Pine floor here in Qld in a month or two using this system. Thanks for doing this video, its all good info Mate. Can you tell me what low VOC product You've been using to seal the concrete slab before you start? Cheers Mate, Seano from Queensland.
@@seanquinlan6887 theres a grouse aussie company called DEMTECH that produce a bonza sealer
@@BeowulfBuilders Cheers JoJo. I'll suss it out.
Stay Awesome 👍
what sealer do you use on the slab
Gday Calt,
try to use a LOW VOC sealer and not a solvent based or high chemical; base
#stayawesome
joe joe
Did you screw the battons in the concrete with screws at some parts? How did you perfectly level it, with a planer?
Gday Muhovc
yes we can screw the battens to the slab with a spaghetti / screw system and depending on the batten we will use a 100mm thick x 12 gauge screw ensuring that we countersink the head of the screw 2-3mm
we are bringing out a series of videos showing straightening of a floor and this is universal over a batten, joist, or sub floor system for floor boards
stay awesome
uncle joe joe
Please help
I've decided to do it my self after have shed built thats was so terrible we ask them to take it back .we have a slab base ATM but it slopes and in the middle there is a concrete 6by 4 drop of 8" where the shed used to be that is also concrete where the drop is
But we would like to level it all to have a 20 by 12 ft shed I no this this is the most important part aslwel where so we start
JHi Michelle,
Either pull up the old slab and start again or get a professional concretor to pour a new slab that is to your specifications over the top + 4 inches
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders thanks so much we will look into this 😀
Feel free to sponsor us at www.patreon.com/beowulfbuilders to help us create more great content
Does a damp proof sheet do the same as the sealer or would you need both?i live in the uk .
Gday Ryan H,Due to the UK being quite cold and damp for an extended part of the year, I"d opt for the "both" option. One of the BIG problems i commonly saw when living in the UK was the rising damp. If you're able to help reduce that risk as the very beginning then do that !!stay AwesomeUncle Joe Joe
Some say you should allow vapor to “drain” after comes through. Im so confused about whether I should seal! 🤨
hi did you screw the battens into the concrete? if so how did u do this by not breaching the seal you had put down on the floor?
about to start building home studio in my garage, thanks in advance 👍
Gday MrBeat Technique,
yes we can screw the battens to the slab with a mungo or spaghetti / screw system. Depending on the batten we will use a 100mm thick x 12 gauge screw or a 120 mungo. this will ensuring that we countersink the head and nothing protruds
so as not to penatrate the seal you can screw directly next to the packer or put a packer on either side.
we are bringing out a series of videos showing straightening of a floor and this is universal over a batten, joist, or sub floor system for floor boards
stay awesome
uncle joe joe
Have you built the studio? Did you use this technique for the floors?
@@BeowulfBuilders Please send me the link to the video!!!! sandraleecoppedge@gmail.com
Great video, thanks! What type of Sikaflex did you use?
Gday David Ozog
we either use Sika Flex or Bostic construction adhesives.
stay awesome
uncle joe joe
Can this system work with 20mm battens on a concrete slab that is 20mm out of level over 10m?
Reason for ~20mm battens is because I'm trying to not go over 40mm total floor thickness on the high side.
The slab is actually just under 40mm out of level but I'm hopping to grid it down on the hi side 20mm or so, which will leave it roughly 20mm out of level from the middle. Than I'm planning to lay 19mm solid timber floor.
Where are you based? I'm looking for someone to do this on. Thanks
Gday Bits of this and that,
yes you could do 40-20mm racked batten system yet there are MANY things to be taken into consideration when doing this.
Currently we are booked 3 months in advance.
stay awesome
uncle joe joe
hey pedroooooooooo
feel free to sponsor us at www.patreon.com/beowulfbuilders
Over the decades floor installation techniques have really changed. Nothing bothers me more than the glue down method; but I guess it works. The method you demonstrated here for hardwood is tried and proven for many generations worldwide. The other similar method is a floating plywood sheathing on a resilient pad.
Gday Troy,
Thanks for your feed back !!!
We have a few vids showing a number of systems for flooring yet this one is DEFIANTLY our Favourite as it shows a number of different elements but non sooooo important as seperating hte slab from the floor...
#stayawesome
joe joe
Great post! Cement porch - open underneath. We would like to frame it in to make permanent room. We already want to raise the floor slightly to match entry into house. What system do you recommend? Best insulation for between slab and new subfloor?
Gday Len,
Many things to take into consideration; Orientation of the dwelling, the area that its in, the type of construction that's already there, distance from floor to ceiling, cross air ventilation, and the list goes ONNNNNNN :)
Also, take into consideration the height inside to outside, we see problems with this alllll the time....ensure there is at least a 25mm (1 inch) height difference between the inside and the outside and that this is flashed, sealed and drained properly.....BIGGEST cause of flooding !!!!!
#stayawesome
joe joe
Did you lay your flooring right over the battens? Or did you put plywood down?
Hi Sandra,
GRRRREAT question.
The batten system allows for someone to lay a SOLID TIMBER floor board directly onto the timber battens. Yet if the floor is that of a floating floor or an "over lay floor" then a ply sub straight wood (hahaha im a comedian part time) need to be employed. the thickness of the ply will be subject to the span of the battens.
#stayawesome
uncle joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders Wish I had seen this response sooner! Still struggling with how to do this properly! Can you tell me how far the battens should be spaced (on center)? I haven’t decided on flooring type but I’m looking for value. One place will sell me raw pine T&G flooring (i.e. would need sanding slightly and sealing) in 5” wide by 12’ long, 3/4” thick, for $1.75 sq ft. Ideas on this? I worry about it being soft and water susceptible. Also I’ll paste the link but one site says to overlap them in lengths of 18”-48”. Do you know why? www.hardwoodinfo.com/specifying-professionals/project-support/flooring-guides/installing-hardwood-floor-concrete-slab-2/
Hi, thanks for video and for taking questilons. (All contractors bere in my part of USA seem to only rip out and start new! ) So any advice appreciated.
I have a back patio (covered w roof.) crack is in part of concrete where one side is raised about 2 1/2 inches on one side of crack. (The roof is higher on that side.) The crack starts abojt 2 1/2 feet away from tbe house and extends out to end of patio (8 or 9 feet long crack. The one side raises as it goes away from the hlouse. Concrete patio reportedly was poured about 50 years agi, so maybe it stopped settling? (bougbt house this year.) Looks same past year....
Please tell me if this is sounds reasonable and any advice...
If I try your method, i could fill crack w flexible product (such as minimally expanding foam then caulk?) Seal conctrete w sealant And are you saying I should caulk under the battons?
A rug and table go over the area w crack so thinking I could see how it goes...
Seems the other option is something floating over crack area but any advice would be appreciated. I dont wa t to tear it all up, and if needed, id sooner go w sand and pavers, but I really would like to try tbe wood decking boards.if possible. Thank you.
.
Gday Brotherskeeper Kenney,
thanks for sending in your question.... i need some photo's to go with this to give you a better answer as it sounds like youve got a bit going on and i don't want to point you in the wrong direction buddie.
you can look me up @beowulfbuilders on hte net and send through some info.... happy to help you out champ where i can
#stayawesome
uncle joe joe
I love the poping sound you make 😁😁😁😁😁
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What material did you use to separate wood from concrete>
plastic packers are a good one, if you cannot get these, try malfoid or plastic damp course on the concrete with a timber wedge glued into position with polyurethan construction adhesive
Hi
I wish you had shown us how you fixed it to the floor.
you wish i had of shown the flooring being fixed ?
or the batten to the slab ?
there are video's for both on this channel
#stayawesome
joe joe
@@BeowulfBuilders Hey, have looked all over yr channel but cant see the vids for batten to slab fixing. can you gimme a hand? Thanks dudes.