USB Type-C Power Delivery Trigger Board || DIY or Buy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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In this episode of DIY or Buy we will have a closer look at a USB Type-C Power Delivery Trigger board. Such boards are used to output 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V or even 20V from a Power Delivery compatible power source. So I will be showing you how such a commercial board works and I will try to create my own DIY version of it in order to see whether it makes sense to DIY such a board or whether we should stick to the commercial solution instead. Let's get started!
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Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com)
USB PD is the best thing since sliced heatshrinks. I've been using it on most of my projects and the convenience is real.
Wait, sliced heat shrinks? That exists?
@@GRBtutorials I think it's a joke on the anglophonic advertisement adage “best thing since sliced bread”. Which I've never understood. How are people incapable of slicing their own bread? Sliced bread has a shorter shelflife.
Well, it would be awsome if sliced heatshrink would exist. I always forget to put it on beforehand.
I'm not joking, they do exist. Just search as "heatshrink kit" and there are variety of them to choose. And as being the parody of "sliced bread", well that was my intention too but pre-cut heatshrinks are really convenient to use for me.
can you send schematic file of your USB_C pD? sandeep@sysargus.com
Even with „Buy“ as an outcome I think what you are doing is really worth it. I’m learning something new every video. Keep it going this way! 👍🏻
Thanks! Will do!
Thanks for making these DIY/Buy videos! I know it's always a bit disappointing when the outcome is buy, but it's very helpful that you did the work to figure that out and shared it with us all 😁
I went into programming after high school / uni but have ever since felt like I need a small-electronics education too. It's kinda fun that you can get that almost for free on youtube these days! You the man!
I've had the idea of somehow probing the pins of the type c, imitate the signal and maybe some day design my own PD powerbank. This video made me think twice about that thought 😅
Yep,....not that simple😅
@@greatscottlab Andreas Spiess had also a simple Video about hacking quickcharge. He also had A link to a github Page. They used an arduino nano to trigger quickcharge (They only Used 4or 5 resistors to Use the arduino as a trigger. No other ic.)
@@Enderkruemel quickcharge is something different from usb-pd.
@Statiscube Patreon donors get early access.
@Statiscube hol up
I suggest TVS diodes on those CC pins. You want to try avoid large transients on cable removals
Could you elaborate what would cause the large transients? And why diodes would help that
LC Raz When you unplug the cable, there is a spike in voltage. This is due to the storage of energy in reactive elements of the circuit. An example would be an inductive load, when you unplug it the magnetic field rapidly breaks down and induces a high voltage. A TVS diode works by depending on the voltage to exceed its breakdown voltage. Essentially when the Spike exceeds the breakdown voltage of the diode, the diode will shunt to ground.
@FQD2N There is inductance everywhere, it might not be big, but it's there. Just because it's not on a cheap aliexpress board, doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have it. External interfaces (even USB connectors) should have some ESD protection minimum. TVSs are one way of doing that.
LC Raz built-in transistors serve the same purpose.
@FQD2N see this guide www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy105/slyy105.pdf?ts=1592861588015 from TI. You can also checkout the datasheet for a reputable USB PD implementation like the stusb4500qtr chip which includes protection for this type of thing in the typical application example. The circuit designed in this video is a very naive implemenation
There is something strangely satisfying about plugging a cable into a USB-C port. Unlike USB-A/B, It just so...hassle free!
USB-A:
Try to plug it in.
Doesn't fit.
Flip it over.
Try to plug it in again.
Still doesn't fit.
Flip it over once more.
Try to plug it in yet again.
It fits.
USB-C:
Plug it in
As things get more and more advanced/complex, buy will usually end up being the winner. And buy has been the only choice for mission-critical applications.
But that has never stopped us from tinkering around, and its always a great learning experience. Just like your videos!
Great video! There's actually an existing trigger IC which is the IP2721 that does all the work without the need for a microcontroller. There are currently two versions: one that can be either switched between 9V or 12V, and another between 15V and 20V by setting a select pin floating or high. If the pin is grounded, it will only output 5V
Nice one, when one knows which voltage to use. And also easier to solder by hand !
@@sporniket This is for a trigger board for devices. For the power supply/source, you'd need a PD compatible one.
Do you know if there's already a PD EPR (24/36/48V) version?
I'm watching your content for more than 3 years and I'm amazed how your channel evolved and how the quality of your materials raised. Keep it up!
I can imagine how much effort you have put on the investigation etc. and put that all together into videos, I really appreciate it mate! Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I made a PCB with STUSB4500 for my PD stuff and that IC works just great and is even simpler. It also comes with more security and features.
I remembered glancing at this video 3 years ago. Luckily I remembered it just the other day for a project. You saved me yet again
Making your own might be a waste of time, but your new understanding of the device is invaluable
Diy would be the preferred method though in instances where you already are using a microcontroller for something else and needed power negotiation (eg in something like a soldering station for a TS 100 iron). If you have a specific use case where going the diy route will reduce part count it could definitely be worth it.
This is really a great video; thank you! I am planning to power a board with USB-C PD, and since the board power control is done with an ESP32 (which also allows OTA firmware updates and much more), it would be most convenient to buy an integrated solution, like CK224K. The issue there is, that it doesn't provide any status, so the only way to know if the triggering worked is to measure the voltage with an ADC input. It is not very convenient. Retargeting the PD software to ESP32 shouldn't be too difficult and gives much finer control. Plus, I can still use the D+/D- lines to reprogram the ESP32. In order of cost, I think the CK224K is about $0.60/pc @ 1000, and the FUSB302 is about $0.50/pc @ 1000. Then of course, there is the CYPD3177, but that one creeps closer towards $1/pc. I am still in doubt which part to use.
I've just had the idea to use this as a fan driver (starting with 12v, then after the spin-up, reducing to 9v and 5v), and voilà, appears at the last scene :)
It's amazing how much time we will spend on building something just to see if we can do it, regardless of how much easier it is to buy. I always enjoy learning, but it can get frustrating.
I understand that if you want to cycle power modes by pressing the button the buy option is the best, but if you work on a larger project that requires one specific power mode than I think the diy option would be better as you can program your gadget to request that one specific mode.
Awesome video anyway, thank you 👍👍👍
Yeah that's true. Most applications don't require changing the voltage on the go
This is QUAAALLLIITTYYY COOONNTTEEENNNNTTTTT;
Great content as always
Thanks :-)
Why is the content so high quality?
Of course, it is "Made in Germany" !!! :-)
@ so true :D
I've wanted to integrate USB Type C in a project and knowing the capabilities of power delivery has made life alot easier. Great video👌🏽
In my opinion buying is the best option always, unless you can save a lot of money by DIY or unless it doesn’t exist what you want. But I’ve to admit it is very interesting and informative making things yourself
i just like how he explains it with the notes he takes
my question is what type of pen is that
stabilo fineliner
Stabilo Point 88
I'm just surprised that they haven't sponsored him yet.
Great Scott: [Opens new box of stabilo pens]
Me: ahhh new video time!
@@greatscottlab thanks
now im reaaallly interrested in what makes usb-pd tick!
Well, you only have 600 pages to read!
@@YonatanAvhar quarantine time *dabs*
ever since the reflow soldering video came out, I was wondering what this project would be! great video.
The second IC on commercial is FUSB302B, and ST also had own USB-C PD controller - STUSB4700
You mean 4500. The 4700 is source, not sink.
@@oraszuletik yeah, and this too
USB C is amazing, and PD is by far the best feature. I do wish that it was a bit simpler for DIY enthusiasts to actually implement for themselves.
Great Scott! that's what we call a metric shit-ton amount of work. thanks for illuminating on the sheer complexity of USB-C power management.
If you want to inspect the USB PD protocol, I recommend the AVHzY CT-2. It's mainly used for triggering and measuring power draw (which it's fantastic for) but it'll also enumerate all the available power levels and connect to desktop software to show you all the messages going back and forth. Super handy, I used it for evaluating ~30 power banks. Also a minor nit: USB-PD isn't only for USB Type C. PD 1.0 works with micro-USB and type A/B. PD 2.0 is the main one you're a fan of I think, with the separate config channel on the Type C connector.
Thanks for the information
GreatScott! In case you didn't see, I edited my comment to add a little nitpick about PD and Type C. Don't want people to see your comment and think you're agreeing with something you didn't see.
Have a look at the Quickcharge 3 protocol. It's limited to 12V, but it can do any voltage from 5 to 12V and is much cheaper to implement (there is even Arduino library for it).
This is exactly the project I was currently working on! This is absolutely perfect timing! Solved 90% of my questions. Thanks
That is what I was hoping for :-)
@@greatscottlab Yeah I was researching to make a single board design to power my dslr camera via usb-c PD. But after this I'm just going to combine two existing boards. That is as you concluded way easier.
Very difficult project. Not easy to implement some of these protocols. Nice of the guy to help with the code. Great job !
What the... I was just researching this the last few days to convert some devices to accept USB-C. Edit: To clarify, I meant USB-C PD. I'm primarily looking for the power-source (above 5V3A), not the data transfer (but also looking for something which combines both)
i really want to do this to some devices too.
If just accept type c charge and data transfer i think he have other video for it
Look for DIY perks USB-C conversion video, he has very simple explanation for non techy people. Combine his solution with basic electronics here, Thank me later 😀
@@sdffsdafdsfsdfsd I'm looking to convert devices which don't feature USB Power input. (Stuff that requires more than 5V or 15W). I'm also wondering if a board exists that accepts USB-C PD Power but also features USB data transfer to a device behind it. Haven't found anything like that so far.
@@NorthcodeNoCh I think you would need to DIY a passthrough board which includes D± and a 5V regulator.
I'm glad that the negotiation process is complicated, you wouldn't want a crashed USB controller to fooling it into giving out 20V in the USB port
Thank you so much as I am searching for similar guidelines so far. And occasionally your this video solve my mystery failed similar attempt before: I mixed up between CCs and SUBs pins of the very same USBC female connector you are using... Thanks a lot again!
p.s. 0:52 PD would in fact not deliver any power at all, neither the most basic 5V, if your device does simply only connect to the VBUS and GND pins, i.e. connect a non-USB-C device with a USB PD sink via passive adapters. This is because while VSUB of other type-A based fast charging (as well as legacy USB) would always have at least 5V, a compliance USBC PD source would instead have no voltages (or so called "high impedance") until it detected something is connected, by detecting if either one CC pin is pulled down by the sink, which is pulled up by the source itself. As non-USB-C does not have CC pins as all it do not "power up" any PD sources.
DIY is not the winner but global knowledge improved a lot with this video
This is pretty much how I made a portable external monitor to carry with my laptop. An old 1080p laptop panel, cheap driver board, USB power bank and a 12v converter works well.
OMG How did I not know about USB-C PD? I'm super frustrated with myself right now, but very happy with you!
Hi, I recently tried the JLC PCB service because of your videos and turns out it's a great service. $2+Shipping for 5, 2 layer PCB's as advertised, and high quality PCB's, compared to those from Pentalogix wich usually cost at least $40 the piece for boards of the same sizes. Only issue is of course wait time but even if you pay another $20 for priority shipping would still be cheaper
Great video, just showes that custom silicon is there for a purpose. It is a similar thing with bus communication like i2c and 485/232. If you dont have a good reason to reinvent the wheel, just go to Goodyear.
2K of RAM to tell a chip what voltage to output....
Great video!
lmao its my 1st time listening on headphones and i just realised how bass boosted the intro is xD
Just starting out in PCB design. Hoping I can get to this point one day where I can make a bunch of my own projects/designs. Thanks for the inspiration.
I got shocked.
I knew I knew this voice........the I saw it was you
I watch a lot of your videos............but never seen you face............now I have
Thank for the videos
Grüß aus Dänemark 😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅
5:23 ElectroBOOM: Don't do that, bro!
dont get it
@@m4gg197 He is too close to that powered up circuit with that metal conductive screwdriver
@@sziluchannel yeah but its only powered with 5-20 v on 5 amps. thats not dangerous is it?
@@m4gg197 Not dangerous, but he still can ruin his circuit with that screwdriver, as ElectroBOOM does always.
Szilu Channel now l get it 😅
Man, you've been around for a long time. First video I watched was you assembling a 3d printer I think
Wooow... I blew my pants off when i saw that voice and you face.. I assumed you were 50-60 yrs, with you nice polite voice.. Well, my bad.. thanks you the amazing videos through out the years..
Everything about USB is way more complicated than it needs to be. That is what you get with something designed by a committee. And it has a fundamental design error. Although it is differential to give it noise immunity one of the signalling conditions makes both lines go the same way. The end result is noise can cause it to disconnect.
If an Arduino can't even manage it with the help of an external IC, that pretty much sums up how complex the USB-C PD protocol is...
You never get free lunch in engineering. USB-C is extremely flexible and can do anything from USB, DP, audio and even PCI-E, but it comes at the cost of complicated configuration. Still it's a very cool protocol and there are some IC's that get the job done for PD with very little hassle
Apollo 11 didn't stand a chance ;)
It seems to me that it would definitely be doable if you're only concerned to use the arduino as a sink. The protocol isn't that complicated, the source offers a choice of available modes, the sink accept, the source confirms and then sends a packet when the power is stable. So you basically only need to extract the values from the available modes, and craft a packet to select the one you want which seems doable in 2k of ram (the packets are around 30 bits.)
The basic sink implementation is fairly simple, but when you look into daisychaining, bidirectional PD etc.. It is complex.
@@satibel I think you came to the correct conclusion
It's so useful now my home made project can be use a power bank instead of mains voltage. Good job. Keep it up.
Great 👍
Thank you for this video.
Yes the winner can be buy, but it worth making simple enough library like QC3 control to make projects with PD more affordable. Again thank you
Dear GreatScott, you are really amazing & you will not believe that you inspired me to do a lot of stuff in engineering. Good luck keep growing
I have one of these that even has a small lcd display on it that shows me the voltage I've selected as well as the current. It also has a USB-C Male and female connector and a female USB-A connector. I bought it as part of a set with a voltage/current meter to test my chargers and cables with, think I paid 18 euros in total and it also came with a Quick Charge trigger and some other bits. At these prices it's really hard to build something like this yourself.
STUSB4500 takes care of the problem as it is a stand-alone IC. You can still use a microcontroller to set the profile that you need. But good luck finding one...
Just read USB-PD spec. Your love for it will pass very quickly :D It is soooo overly complicated
That's why I use a smart cable instead of building sink circuits into my gear.
It has to meet many needs for many different devices, so of course it will be complicated. Just imagine how complicated usb 4 will be since it will be thunderbolt compatible as well.
It needs to be compatible with future implementations, you'd be out of spec as far as what is allowed, but I'm pretty sure you could negotiate 230V ac on the usb pd spec.
I have an idea: DIY or buy a cheap desoldering gun? What's the cheapest desoldering gun you can get? I really need one before I rip apart asolutely every and all solder pads in the world trying to desolder large pin count components from lead free boards 😂
And what about one of those solderex automatic soldering irons; buy, or diy using a stepper motor and a 3d printer feeder mechanism? And great video as always, your content is always great.
Why is his voice so soothing?
Is it the accent? Tone? A combination?!
Finally something knowledgeable on TH-cam after this quarantine period
[Spoiler: Long Reply] Of course you don't want to fry your peripherals that's why negotiations are there to make sure everything works seamless. It hides all the complexity behind specific IC that handles it, giving ease of use to end consumer. That's how we evolve and innovate technologies. I remember when physical serial and parallel ports were even a thing in computers and now they are wrapped on top of USB interface with almost all controllers talking to host computer with dedicated usb to serial IC or with FTDI board. You as a consumer just take it for granted while it is still possible to have such ports on computers.
Sheer complexity is not new to computing world and you would be wondering what they used to make general purpose computers and how all the complexity is hidden behind whole programming toolchain. Industry phase out old things and introduce new things in order to keep things moving, rather good or bad.
Speaking of protocol:
Not only the protocol allows negotiations with power delivery at physical layer with built-in tests but also allows devices to negotiate which one will act as host in usb specs, that's important because slave device will usually be driven by host and since usb-c is reversible having unified interface, it makes sense to include such basic negotiations with proper register based data line signaling rather than old on/off signaling. Because that's how computers talk to pheripherals. A simple ASIC will do the job for devices with fix usage while keeping specification open for more productive usage. Keeping it as small as possible is goal here, no matter the complexity behind it.
Anyways we all have alot to learn yet, and you might want to look into ARM, TI, Broadcom or STMicroelectronics docs for more advanced microcontroller usages, modern microcontroller have become almost small microprocessors, just not with all the perks yet :)
I recently had to make a small usb 1.0 HID implementation to create a virtual joystick and oh boy, usb is hard
That sound nice, do you have a video? Or any documentation it would be nice to learn such thing for diy home joystiking :-9
That’s why you learn it in elementary school in Germany
I still remember the USB Song. I will try to translate it as good as possible:
„1 carries voltage and 4 the ground, be careful to not switch around.
For data it goes the other way round. Pin 2 is data minus and pin 3 data plus.
Remember to never mix up host and device.“
It goes on with a second verse about the first bytes that are transmitted etc. it basically teaches the core principles of the USB 1.1 Standard. The third verse is about best practices and limitations. Lovely little children’s song.
@@WurstPeterl You learn about USB in elementary school? The only thing we learned was how to use MS paint... welcome to Czech Republic lmao
USB is great in principle, but 600+ pages just to document power? 🤮 What a design-by-committee mess!!!
1:29 you put a smile on my face 😍
🤨 wut
Has anyone ever said that your accent is strange? Good videos and luck for subtitles. Thank you.
he's german, so... pretty decent
I love how you take things step by step while showing your challenges. You also admit when something is out of your knowledge base and i admire that. keep up the great work. Kindly support a brothers channel too guys.
even the buy wins this video is very interesting
After watching this video on power delivery function of type c usb, I think I have to say electronics a goodbye.
This is way way more complicated for me to understand. I really salute the makers and developers of usb type c.
Thanks, great video. Please consider making a voltage / current programmable PSU using the new usbc PD PPS standard.
Hey why not try out the quick charge trigger board, it only involves applying certain voltages to the USB data lines... Although it might give as much power as usb C , 12volts with 2 amps should be more than enough for many projects
I would consider using USB-C port in my project that uses USB interface, and I am considering using the FUSB302 or ST equivalent so I get the amperage I need from the buck-boost DC-DC converter based battery charger to juice up a parallel or serial setup of Lithium-ion cells on the board. So DIY is occasionally better than just buy the whole thing especially if you want the DIY electronic projects to be very compact.
Sir i can't find anywhere about the organization of pixels in display panel, how are individual pixel are controlled ?
Also there are three different parameters of a pixels RGB!...
This all sounds impossible..
If there is anyvideo of yours , that talks about the concept of this topic, please help me out.
If not then please make a video, explaining everything about this topic, please sir....
Finally, you are the inspiration for me !!!
These videos are very beautiful and very useful to the most beautiful in it is the method of presentation and voice comment, and I love you very much
Thank you very much!
Somebody lost weight. Good on you Scott!
Thank :-)
Consider using STUSB4500 and STUSB4700 ICs, there can even act as standalone controller or can be driven via I2C and are much easier to use
I would like to see DIY or Buy: Spectrometer. Would like to see a cheap spectrometer that is good enough for measuring light quality. Such commercial devices are at least $500 which is way too rich for my blood.
Oh nice, I knew about voltage boosters and love them, but that USB-C Power Delivery trigger board is a lot easier to use :)
Good Stuff as always .... thanks for the (needed) leason ! And yes I think I will just go out and buy one ...
The way you look and the way you sound are polar opposites. But both are great.
Thanks :-)
Hey there!
sounds like something straight outa games loading screen
1:30 HEY calm down you murdered a fly there !!!. love your work by the way
Meanwhile, on Quick charge, you need 2 resistors and NC switch and done 12V 1.5A
Hi dagh! I love USB Ciea, because of powar deliveria
Your explanation is very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Quick Charge is better with mcu and couple resistors can get same voltages
omg, not enough sram TO SWITCH VOLTAGE. This is insane. Thanks for this!
It sounds a bit nonsensical to me. Perhaps it was just much easier instead of rewriting everything.
@@MisoNyah what exactly sounded nonsensical and why?
I've known for a while now that usb type c is the shizzle, but it has not yet found it's way nor place in my setup. even my phone still uses usb micro (or wathever it's called) Being able to spit out up to 20v is very nice/usefull
For the PBAD G7B, there was a Chinese website (forum) which there's someone had answered the question. It's FUSB302 from onsemi.
Can you make an ultrasonic fabric welder for welding ear loops of surgical masks? A much needed project these days. Thanks in advance
@GreatScott! You did a lot of work to get this figured out so you deserve mad respect. Now that it's done, why recommend buying the commercial board over adding that chip to your designs? Most of your projects and ours will have an Arduino-compatible processor and an i2c bus. Am I missing something
Hi,
did you look into PPS which most power delivery supplys now have. If you could integrate that into your trigger Programm,, you could use every USB pd which is PPS capable for a powerful bench power supply alternative.
Hope you see this!
The problem I have with the increasingly common USB-C PD trigger board is the risk of its stored voltage configuration being overwritten. Someone messing with the board might change it from asking for 12 volts to asking for 20, and whoops, project is fried. Plus having to remember to configure the board before attaching it to my project. Not to mention having to remember what color means what voltage, and how to make it remember the setting between power interruptions.
I wonder if another chip like the FUSB301 could be made that attaches to an EEPROM or a resistor network or set of jumpers or something that would allow more reliable and self-evident configuration, plus avoid the need for a host microcontroller and custom software.
I am so glad you made a video about this. I have been wondering for a while how difficult it is to implement. Liebe Grusse aus Suedafrika
I dont like it that everyone proudly talks about jlcpcp offering PCBs for only 5$, but never mention that they charge 9$ for delivery.
Is it their fault that delivery costs so much?
@@greatscottlab Yes its their fault.
OMG! 😳 I was shocked with your new intonation for "I will see you next time".
at least we can agree on using any type of usb over wireless
Would be cool to see a diy usb-c 18650 powerbank video. Keep up the good work.
On my to do list
I have some serious beef with the Raspberry PI foundation forcing people to buy their proprietary power adapter for use with the PI5. within PD spec asking for 5A over 5V is not allowed. If you want 25 watt you need to use a higher voltage. Do you know of an IC that can be used to make a PD delivery port instead of a ""client" PD trigger board. That way I can use a buck converter to convert the 9V the PD is supplying me to 5V and deliver that up to 5A over the delivery port to the PI5 . They sell their bs as a cost cutting measure for their PI5 but I , like most sane people know going out of spec is just to sell more of their adapters instead of using generic ones that can deliver just as much power but over allowed voltages. Cheers.
Dear Mr G Scott I love your vids but no matter how many I watch I will never catch up! Please can you suggest how I get up to a knowledge to more enjoy your content. Thank you in anticipation Dave
I tried QC3.0 with just few resistors and arduino library, there was no problem
Really nice @Greatscott .....we are your fans....keep it up....looking for more such videos
This over got me by surprise. USB PD negotiation requiring over 2kB SRAM does not feel right, though.
Where can I learn more about PD negotiations ... I'm wanting to make a fast charger circuit that threw one usb port is compatible with USB PD, Qualcomm Quick Charge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging, Apple Fast Charging, Huawei SuperCharge, Motorola TurboPower, Oppo Vooc, OnePlus Dash Charge, and MediaTek Pump Express. I have a lot of standards to geek out on. The goal is one port... any device... fast charging works and does not revert to standard USB charging speed until it's supposed to (not 8 to 17 seconds into charging a battery that's at say 10% charge meaning it should continue fast charging no matter what it's standard is they would all keep fast charging at 10%... some incompatible mismatches do that though. But if I could detect the fast charging standard before passing off the charge negotiations to the appropriate standard, than I could know which is the appropriate standard to pass it off to and then just do that... I know I make it sound like it's gonna be easy. They do make PD/QC compatible circuits so maybe I can build on that.