Really enjoy your chiller/HVAC videos. Can you do one on the oil lubricating/bearing systems of chillers? Also videos on the different motors of screws, scrolls, recips, loading/unloading, etc?
As a Daikin Factory service tech (who was working on these today) I must say I love to see you using our machines as a template for your graphics. I love your videos and this one (although review) is no exception. Cheers!
@@Baylessfishes I’m happier here at Daikin than I’ve ever been in this trade! Great company to work for! I absolutely love engineering mindset videos as well.
@@lamichaelkreitz6821 You Daikin guys sure love your pannels and stripped out screws... Still decent engineering compared to others (cough, Carrier). When it comes to chillers, give me a complicated centrifugal any day. Then perhaps a screw...
What is chiller surge? It's basically an unwanted situation which occurs due to difference in pressure between outlet and inlet of compressor. It may occur if the temperature of the condenser raises to a level at which the pressure becomes more at the outlet of compressor (going into the condenser) .
Saudações aqui do Brasil. Antes de mais nada, quero agradecer e parabenizar pelo conteúdo. Não sei como não tinha visto esse canal antes. Não tinha percebido o "SURGE" dessa maneira. Se não for incomodar muito, poderia responder algumas perguntas? 1- Existe surge por baixa pressão? Onde o "Lift" do compressor fique abaixo do seu limite? Já tivemos casos aqui, que só resolveu corrigindo a vazão no evaporador. 2- A rotação do compressor realmente gira no sentindo inverso? Ou só desacelera? 3- Como posso criar conteúdos tão maneiros com esses modelos 3D? Ficou excelente. Mais uma vez agradeço
At t=292 you said about too great pressure and back flow. This is a description but not an explanation. What exactly happen with gas in the rotor just before/at/after the moment when this critical pressure is achieved? In particular why after achieving this equilibrium it does not become stable/static without flow.
before it becomes compressed and heated. At, it finds a route with lower pressure/resistance which means backwards. After, it flow towards the least resistance which is forwards. It can't reach stability because there are different pressures on either side of it and heat is being added or removed.
ahmad jaber they are emergency blow offs in case of a pressure switch failure or issue with the machine keeps running past the fail safe pressures. It vents the refrigerant to avoid vessel rupture
Surge is just when the machine loses its lift due to being out of its design specs of running. For example someone raises the set point on the cooling tower and lowers the set point below design set point. Your out of balance and the liquid level in the evap will fall there fore affecting the impellers ability to lift the vapor from the lower liquid level in the evap. This is just one scenario, several factors can make a centrifugal chiller stall and surge.
Hi! I am curious that if the condenser water return is too low such as 21-23C , any issues or problems will be appeared? THANKS! Your videos are really helpful!
Depends on the chiller. Some, older ones, need very stable operation but newer ones are made with variable conditions but still have some minimum and maximum temperatures and pressures. If the chiller approaches these limits it will trip and cut the power to protect itself. Check the chiller specifications
Chiller surge can be of any system where the condenser pressure is greater then the compressor discharge.. now these chillers condensers can either be water cooled or air cooled, if they are water cooled you can definitely clean their tubes by carrying out proper shut down operation etc and/or wash condensers if air cooled..
Why compressor oil comes in the evaporator, even if an oil separator is installed. Evaporator tube leakage oil, water, and refrigerant mix in my case. I will be very grateful if you make this video by giving the real reason.
Could be a lot of things, low refrigerant level, faulty or incorrect sized expansion valve, wrong refrigerant used. Best to take some screenshots of the VDU, check the fault code and look in the service manual to diagnose the problem.
please answer this , if there is good heat transfer in the condenser as you describing in the video ... then There is only removal of the latent heat ,... The temperature and pressure remains same. Then how we can eliminate the Surging phenomenon please tell...? Because for surging we have to decrease the pressure from the condenser ? Please correct me if i am wrong !!!
Many things affect this, the supply and return temperature of the water, the flow rate of the water or refrigerant etc etc. If your chiller is surging then you should contact your service provider or manufacturer for assistance asap.
Muhammad Zaroon Surging in itself happens when there is improper heat exchange caused by the combine effects of fouling,flowrate variation Etc etc inside the condenser...which directly leads to lower heat transfer and hence higher temperature and pressure build up.So your statement that the temperature remains constant is incorrect
Water from pressurisation unit. See our chilled water schematic video please. Water comes put out of the evaporator in a chiller, the refrigerant is kept separate.
Thanks for the explanation! One of my chiller here was really troubled by those surging problems. The hot gas bypass, guide vane & VFD compressor seems like cant really coordinate well and suffered from surge tripping while the heat load was dropped suddenly (change of shift in a factory). The chiller part load table claimed that it was able to provide up to 15% part load, but the chiller just refused to run in so low speed (Chiller tripped in around 60% part load) While we are pretty sure most of the parameters (condenser delta T, flowrate, etc) was good during chiller surging, we are deeply troubled by this centrifugal chiller Any idea or thought of this? Thanks in advance for any comment!
⚠️ *Found this video super useful?* Buy Paul a coffee to say thanks: ☕
PayPal: www.paypal.me/TheEngineerinMindset
Really enjoy your chiller/HVAC videos. Can you do one on the oil lubricating/bearing systems of chillers? Also videos on the different motors of screws, scrolls, recips, loading/unloading, etc?
As a Daikin Factory service tech (who was working on these today) I must say I love to see you using our machines as a template for your graphics. I love your videos and this one (although review) is no exception. Cheers!
LaMichael Kreitz us old mcquay boyz cheers
Trane no daikin
Left Mcquay in 2005, Trane till 2016 and now I do service for them.
@@Baylessfishes I’m happier here at Daikin than I’ve ever been in this trade! Great company to work for! I absolutely love engineering mindset videos as well.
@@lamichaelkreitz6821 You Daikin guys sure love your pannels and stripped out screws...
Still decent engineering compared to others (cough, Carrier).
When it comes to chillers, give me a complicated centrifugal any day. Then perhaps a screw...
These videos make so much sense when you know your basic refrigeration cycle, and the seal system. Some great knowledge on this channel.
Excellent explanation! Good job!
Thank for your clear explanation.
you actually develop my interest in HVAC training and as at today I can design it.
thanks a lot
vARY USEFUL. tHANK YOU FOR POSTING AND DEDICATING YOUR TIME!!!!!
Nice and thanks Awaiting for VGD and PRV Control in chiller
What is chiller surge?
It's basically an unwanted situation which occurs due to difference in pressure between outlet and inlet of compressor. It may occur if the temperature of the condenser raises to a level at which the pressure becomes more at the outlet of compressor (going into the condenser) .
How to avoid this issue?
Learn *CHILLER FAULT FINDING* here: th-cam.com/video/Zu0LVVNNVSw/w-d-xo.html
thank you very much for your efforts
Thanks for an easy explanation, I have worked on York OM Titan chiller (5090TR) which had hot gas bypass line.
Good efforts waiting for ammonia systems
Thanks,for good information
Thank you for sharing.
Fantastic video!
Awesome vid keep em coming
Good stuff. Thanks much
Very good video
It is very useful! Thanks a lot
Thank you for the knowledge u share
Our Tranc chillers always surged when the auto fill malfunctioned and the return was starved for water causing the condenser to overheat.
very good job
thaaanks
Saudações aqui do Brasil.
Antes de mais nada, quero agradecer e parabenizar pelo conteúdo. Não sei como não tinha visto esse canal antes.
Não tinha percebido o "SURGE" dessa maneira.
Se não for incomodar muito, poderia responder algumas perguntas?
1- Existe surge por baixa pressão? Onde o "Lift" do compressor fique abaixo do seu limite? Já tivemos casos aqui, que só resolveu corrigindo a vazão no evaporador.
2- A rotação do compressor realmente gira no sentindo inverso? Ou só desacelera?
3- Como posso criar conteúdos tão maneiros com esses modelos 3D? Ficou excelente.
Mais uma vez agradeço
Excellent video
again, great videos dude.
great video thank
Hi sir iam maintained at 1000tr Daikin chiller your video is very usefull
Thank you very much
At t=292 you said about too great pressure and back flow. This is a description but not an explanation. What exactly happen with gas in the rotor just before/at/after the moment when this critical pressure is achieved? In particular why after achieving this equilibrium it does not become stable/static without flow.
before it becomes compressed and heated. At, it finds a route with lower pressure/resistance which means backwards. After, it flow towards the least resistance which is forwards. It can't reach stability because there are different pressures on either side of it and heat is being added or removed.
Thanks, not everyone take the time to share knowledge these days.
Thank you
Can you please also discuss about Oil Migration in Water-Cooled Centrifugal Chiller. Thank you in advance.
Thanks for this video
Please upload design of hvac
HAP software related video
Please sir its a humble request
I want more Industrial practical on refrigeration and air conditioning since I got diploma in mechanical Engineering.
please make vedio abuot cool water chiller expension valve
please make on video on lastast sorew compressor and that parts.
nice content, thank you
Awesome quite fabulous it’s great quite
Same principle as a centrifugal compressor surge but that one is really scary to stand next to :)
Can you do a more detail video about bypassing the effect of surge.thanks
Add a hotgass bypass line
Hellow, its allowed integrate a variable speed control on existing chiller with constant speed ?
Could you please explain briefly the VGD in terms of function and control
Vane Guides: th-cam.com/video/f-N4isgQRGQ/w-d-xo.html
thank you for this védio
i am from moroco
Hi, first of all it's a great video, But i have a question,does the pressure relief vents prevent some how the chiller's surge? Thanks in advance.
ahmad jaber they are emergency blow offs in case of a pressure switch failure or issue with the machine keeps running past the fail safe pressures. It vents the refrigerant to avoid vessel rupture
Surge is just when the machine loses its lift due to being out of its design specs of running. For example someone raises the set point on the cooling tower and lowers the set point below design set point. Your out of balance and the liquid level in the evap will fall there fore affecting the impellers ability to lift the vapor from the lower liquid level in the evap. This is just one scenario, several factors can make a centrifugal chiller stall and surge.
Seen our new pressure switch video? Link: th-cam.com/video/YG81w0HFXNc/w-d-xo.html
What caused the chiller trip? By the way thanks to your vedeo
What are the differences on how chiller surge occur for an air-chilled system?
Surge troubleshooting in contactor amperage
thanks sir
Frm discharge to oil seperator nd then condenser
Why does the chiller surge if the entering water sensor on the evap is bad ? (Changed it because the readings was too high and it worked fine after )
Would an oversized non return valve in the discharge pipe help alleviate this problem.
Hi! I am curious that if the condenser water return is too low such as 21-23C , any issues or problems will be appeared? THANKS! Your videos are really helpful!
Depends on the chiller. Some, older ones, need very stable operation but newer ones are made with variable conditions but still have some minimum and maximum temperatures and pressures. If the chiller approaches these limits it will trip and cut the power to protect itself. Check the chiller specifications
What is the hot gas bypass line? And what is this word you use often - velute or flute?
Gas bypass: th-cam.com/video/K0xAKzdROEg/w-d-xo.html
Volute: theengineeringmindset.com/centrifugal-pump-basics/
why does it also surge while the load decrease but pressure differential maintained？
Add chiller display details video
Couldn't surge be cause by adaptive purge not working correctly or not purging enough?
The chilled water cycle is not completed you need to add. The expansion tank for the make up refill the lost chilled water supply. Thanks.
Could you reply what's the different between this surge system and and condenser tube clean, are they the same system ?
Chiller surge can be of any system where the condenser pressure is greater then the compressor discharge.. now these chillers condensers can either be water cooled or air cooled, if they are water cooled you can definitely clean their tubes by carrying out proper shut down operation etc and/or wash condensers if air cooled..
why isnt there a check valve in the discharge of compressor like hermetic compressors have?
why increase pressure in the condenser
Why compressor oil comes in the evaporator, even if an oil separator is installed. Evaporator tube leakage oil, water, and refrigerant mix in my case. I will be very grateful if you make this video by giving the real reason.
th-cam.com/video/qxRHCbitLzI/w-d-xo.html
Can you explain who Low section Temperature happen and what is the reason with solution
Could be a lot of things, low refrigerant level, faulty or incorrect sized expansion valve, wrong refrigerant used. Best to take some screenshots of the VDU, check the fault code and look in the service manual to diagnose the problem.
We just covered chiller faults in our recent video! th-cam.com/video/Zu0LVVNNVSw/w-d-xo.html
please answer this , if there is good heat transfer in the condenser as you describing in the video ...
then There is only removal of the latent heat ,...
The temperature and pressure remains same.
Then how we can eliminate the Surging phenomenon please tell...?
Because for surging we have to decrease the pressure from the condenser ?
Please correct me if i am wrong !!!
Many things affect this, the supply and return temperature of the water, the flow rate of the water or refrigerant etc etc. If your chiller is surging then you should contact your service provider or manufacturer for assistance asap.
Muhammad Zaroon Surging in itself happens when there is improper heat exchange caused by the combine effects of fouling,flowrate variation Etc etc inside the condenser...which directly leads to lower heat transfer and hence higher temperature and pressure build up.So your statement that the temperature remains constant is incorrect
Pls what supplied water into the evaporator.... Is it the ahu ? I think what is coming out of evaporator is vapour not water
Water from pressurisation unit. See our chilled water schematic video please. Water comes put out of the evaporator in a chiller, the refrigerant is kept separate.
What would happen if the fan was not operating correctly in the compressor?
Exclent
Sounds like a high quality shop vac when they surge
What are the causes of a low end surge?
Surging setting ?
Vanes are already controlling the flow of refrigerant then why a VFD or variable diffuser is required?
Vfd changes the rotational speed of the motor otherwise its a constant speed
The pumps should be pushing the water through the chiller, not drawing it through.
Or tower filler coming apart blocking drip orifices top of tower ,
Velocity across the impeller increases until it can’t.
Thanks for the explanation!
One of my chiller here was really troubled by those surging problems. The hot gas bypass, guide vane & VFD compressor seems like cant really coordinate well and suffered from surge tripping while the heat load was dropped suddenly (change of shift in a factory).
The chiller part load table claimed that it was able to provide up to 15% part load, but the chiller just refused to run in so low speed (Chiller tripped in around 60% part load)
While we are pretty sure most of the parameters (condenser delta T, flowrate, etc) was good during chiller surging, we are deeply troubled by this centrifugal chiller
Any idea or thought of this? Thanks in advance for any comment!
jeejiean what brand of machine? Is it variable speed? Most machines struggle at part load anyways.
VFD Video is now live! here: th-cam.com/video/yEPe7RDtkgo/w-d-xo.html
Expansion vavle
In hindi
www.youtube.com/@EngineeringMindsetHindi
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