Full Hand vs. Fingertips (Weightlifting vs CrossFit)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- You should work to getting a full hand on the barbell for a proper front rack!
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treat light weights heavy and you'll treat heavy weights light
Pavel tsatsouline gang
every warm up sets i do is like this!
Exactlly
*laughs in lasha talakhadze's rack position*
Ernie Frantz
You're like the best kept secret of youtube.
Tru dat
This is honestly one of the best weightlifting channels around. You've really inspired me to start seriously weightlifting, and all these technique videos have helped so much with identifying and fixing weak points in my lifts. Thanks so much for the awesome content, Zack! Keep up the amazing work!!!
Thank god my crossfit coach always says; FULL GRIP!!! But then again he learned from the best: D. Klokov!
@El Maccho he used to do seminars quite often back then
@OtsomeisterWhen Klokov retired from Oly lifting, he started traveling the world and teaching seminars. A friend of mine met him as well during one of them.
Such a diplomat with that crossfit praise/callout haha
Eugene Poon bro i see you everywhere in lifting video 😃😃
He's right, though. I never would have gotten into Oly lifting if hadn't first met it in Crossfit.
Austin Duke
Don't owe them jack shit, if anything that's just a reason to hate them even more, they're teaching incorrect and longterm dangerous technique and training philosophy to MILLIONS of people worldwide
You’re one of the few people out there who actually knows their shit & corrects others without being a jerk about it. Much love for that!
My coach has started me on Olympic lifts 4 months ago
I’m a 49 years arthritic male 94 kg
He is a Crossfit coach but started in Olympic lifting your words ring so many of his changes to my form
Great advice thanks and video too camera angles 👍🇦🇺
Aye an Aussie 🇦🇺🍻🤙
I don't think CrossFit does enough research when it comes to proper technique, form, etc. The Level 1 seminar is a $1000 joke.
TheWebaa 😂😂 you “don’t think” huh? Good grief 🤦🏼♂️
Haha they don’t care! They don’t even have a legitimate drug testing system. It’s all about $$$$ for them
Please elaborate on the drug testing, thanks.
@@pallekjrlaursen8388 they don't have it . you still don't get it?
Uclababy Bruin right....obviously some Games athletes were suspended from nothing for taking stuff. 🙄
So in the CFL1 seminar I attended (Sep 2018) they definitely addressed this. It was framed up as "full grip is the proper way, but for beginner squatters that don't have requisite mobility we start with open fingers, and work on mobility to get them to a full grip....". Our coaching staff also preach the same, and just recently at a drop-in while out of town, I had a similar teaching during setup for FR box step-ups. So being that this video is a year old, and all of my recent examples are in line with your teachings, maybe this has been recognized and corrected by CF training. Great topic, thanks for doing what you do.
As a CrossFit coach and Strength and conditioning coach, I teach this exact thing, then again I was taught by Coach Mike Burgener himself. The open grip "opens" you up to problems later on, is what I coach to my athletes personally. Learn the best way from the start in my opinion.
stop kipping and do a proper kip or proper pull up
@@BallisticTech cookie cutter
I do and with good form not CROSSSHIT
@@ernestiechevalierchildprod1586 Okay buddy! Keep trying to get a rise out of people. Do you lift weights under the bridge you guard?
@@BallisticTech nigga that's the stupidest most cookie cutter comeback I've ever heard. Enjoy your arthritis and aching joints
I’m waiting for your channel to blow tf up man. You give the most specific, straightforward, BEST advice on weightlifting. And you engage with your following which is just so awesome and admirable. Your time is coming.
I always said CrossFit is a great concept just executed poorly
Zoo nah, doing heavy Olympic lifts for infinite reps is a recipe for disaster.
Graymatter refer to my first comment
Zoo But that’s the concept.
CROSSSHIT
Crossfit is a combination of all the worst parts of fitness. Why would anyone completely exhaust themselves then try to lift as much as possible over their head?
So informative! Thank you so much. I’m a college rower who struggles so much with front squat and will 100% be trying this out.
I've been a strength coach for 8 ish years. I worked in a CrossFit Gym for a few of those. I believe in the full hand grip. The perspective you might be missing is that 90% of the clients in a CrossFit Gym are #1 over 35, and #2 only concerned about getting healthier and looking good. In the 45 minutes you have with them a day you try to focus on the things that will get the person healthier. For most people, preventing a heart attack or stroke is more important than lifting a lot of weight. Mobility work is definitely a priority and working toward a full hand grip is a long term goal. But most beginner clients can't even do a BAD front rack. So don't hate too much. Most of us are more concerned with what will help the 50-year-old stay healthy than what will make the 18-20 year old a better athlete.
then why are you teaching them a front squat? the 59 year old would get healthy way easier goblet squats without having to learn a technical lift
Why are you making old people with shit mobility do a barbell front squat? It's not mandatory, after all, you said they just wanna be healthy
BS
CrossFit always making excuses.
Coming from a L2-Crossfit coach. This is really great advice and makes so much sense.
Cheers!
Since yesterday I started to follow you.
The title of the video took my attention because I do CrossFit but I really love weighlifting, thanks God I have an amazing trainer, she is always pushing me to be better at weighlifting correcting my postures and teaching me the correct techniques, I feel very proud of her.
Thanks to this videos I hope to be better at what I love, thank you!!
Greets from Mexico
Just an anecdote: i legitimately didn't have the mobility in the shoulder for this. All i did was do weighted stretches and made this my bottom position for my shoulder pressing which apparently I'm really good at. 3 months later I'm resting it on my delts with mobility to spare.
All you gotta do is practice the position. Front squats are the same way. Just practice. You don't need extreme body alterations to gain mobility, it's already there in you.
I need work on my hips. The little i did made HUGE progress. Great videos Zach, attempting any of this was impossible for me and now i can at least start and do the positions. The speed at which I'm adapting is insane, though I'm not actually getting stronger yet. It feels more like I'm tapping into something that was already there.
Thank you for elucidating an important point. Weightlifting 🏋🏾♂️ and biomechanics in general do have a _right_ answer. Keep fighting the good fight.
This is where things get tricky with the semantics. Some of the best front squatters in the world open there hands when they squat (Clarence being one of them). However, MOST elite lifters keep their full grip throughout the clean and jerk. The issue with the crossfit version is that teaching the open grip leads to future issues in the clean and jerk. These issues you'd never find with someone elite who purposefully opens their grip in a front squat.
Edit: their* thanks grammarians!
Zack Telander boi it's their not there smh my head 😤😤😤😤
Yeah Zack, but as you said it's not *bad* per say, it's just not the most efficient. I'm sure Klokov or Xiaojun aren't using the same foot position they had when they first started either -- it evolved over time as their strength/mobility/proficiency improved. I've seen lifters who stick to the closed hand, who lack the mobility to get the bar resting on their shoulders, end up catching and holding the bar down below their neck, someplace on their upper chest... this causes *terrible* form in their squat and/or clean and addition strain on the lower back from the overly front-leaning positioning. So which is better in that case? If an open grip would allow them to catch the bar higher and maintain better position, they can work on improving mobility/strength so they can gradually adjust their grip to something more optimal, while working with a much better position for the lift in general.
I agree with you in the video. Crossfitters are taught the wrong techniques and next thing you know, practice makes permanent. I don't get why Crossfit Level 1 coaches are taught to teach like that. In swimming nobody teaches the dog paddle as a replacement for the front crawl, or tennis coaches teaching a different kind of backhand stroke for newbies.
I think open hand or relaxed grip is alright as long as all fingers are at the bottom of the bar, not just the index and middle fingers. Over time the lifter will default to that grip and learning the clean and jerk will be safer.
Zack Telander, this video was very helpful. What you're saying makes a ton of sense as it relates to teaching and cues. Question though - if someone has proper form, no issues with rounding, etc., in a crossfit style WOD where a front squat is being combined with who knows what else, would/could there be a benefit to disengaging the hands, saving the grip and forearms for other portions of the workout? Put another way, might it not make sense to teach correctly and then describe the fingertip style as and option for more advanced crossfitters to utilize in situations like that?
mindblowing video o_0
in a few minutes the guy just solved 5 problems with my training. Thats a coach of respect
WOW this went so much more in depth than I was expecting when I clicked the video. That was one of the most interesting things I've seen in awhile
Clarence Kennedy
This is going to be the sickest collab. Squat God himself
my boiii clarence
All i heard was something something Clarence Kennedy
Jasiel Arredondo you mean Clark Kent hmm
The myth, the legend, God.
A bunch of good stuff here. Basic concept, don't start off by learning a bad habit that you WILL have to un-learn later. Start with the correct form from the beginning (especially) when it's harder to do.
I love crossfit, and when it comes to queues, I always give priority to the sport specific coach. And all crossfiters (coaches and athletes) absolutely love to learn from them
Such an underrated channel for the TH-cam weightlifting community. Keep up the good work Zack!
I feel the grip an athlete is able to achieve is very dependant on the length of the lower arm compared to the upper arm. I say this, and take myself as an example. If I take a full grip on the bar and attempt a front squat, the bar will have to be physically through the middle of my throat. This is not a flexibility issue for me. I've been doing olympic lifting for about 10 years. I can keep good T-spine extension through all squat movements. My lower arms are considerably longer than my upper arms. When lifting the bar into a front rack, I have to release the bar back towards the fingertips, otherwise the front squat is physically not possible. I've seen this issue with a few people.
Greta video. I work at a gym (hired recently, 21 yr old) with 30 percent CrossFit, 30 percent calisthenics/military work, the. The rest is more bootcamp/acro stuff. Love videos like this because I want well rounded knowledge. Being someone that considers them self athletic, I’ve always been about mobility, functionality, and technique. I played many sports growing up and was fortunately taught lifting for the purpose of translating to my sports (football and shotput/discus college level). Learning now more about the lifting world ie Crossfit stuff, strongman, Olympic lifting, and power lifting. I enjoy channels like yours that respect different methodologies and the science/purpose behind them and help pass knowledge to others. Earned my subscribe and I hope to learn more.
That was very clear from the beginning, never thought about it. I am a Crossfitter and trying to improve all the time. Thanks
Thanks for the info, I started crossfit this year and it has been absolutely awesome for my wife and I, we've lost a combined 75 lbs since we started. I'm now at the point to where I'm going heavier on my lifts, I recently hit new prs 405lb raw deadlift and 385 back squat. I've noticed that my clean and jerk is not increasing.
It’s so weird, I literally just finally realised this myself in the gym today, keeping my whole hand on the bar and my front squat immediately got stronger and felt smoother. Then all of a sudden I get recommended this vid!
Everytime it zooms in I get ready for a memey joke, but all I get is well articulated weightlifting advice. What the hell is this, a serious educational video?!
I tried this drill this afternoon, and it worked. Thank you coach..my front rack is getting better.
Hi Zack , thanks for the video . I think that one thing is often overlooked when it comes to the front rack , that is the extensibility of the upper back muscles ( trapezius , rhomboids ..) . to get a good front rack you need to create a shelf for the bar , the shelf is created by protracting the shoulder blades so that the bar can rest on the clavicular bone and the anterior delts can secure the position by blocking the bar from sliding ( given that your neck is straight enough so that you can put the bar on the clavicular bone in the first place) . the roblem is when your upper back muscles are tight from having poor posture ( lordosis) or from just not using the full range of motion , you won't be able to attain shoulder protraction without compensation in the upper back ( rounding) , since rounding in the upper back ( followed by extension in the cervical spine) preserves the current length of the upper back muscles , and that's what gives the lordosis that you see in the crossfit video. i think adressing the thoracic spine without adressing the upperback muscle is pointless , since the shortened position of the muscles will just pull back the spine to that lordosis and hyper extension in the cervical spine . i think the lack of mobility in the uperback muscles also hinders the overhead press position since it blocks the scapula from moving properly and a lack of motor control in that area means less stability in the position ( especially in the internal rotation that is secured by these muscles ) . i would like to get your input on thins if possible . .
Excellent video Zack. This is why I teach the positions before the lifts. Many people (mostly coming from CrossFit) have poor posture and have been trying for months/years to gain strength without addressing this number 1 issue. They start gaining strength like crazy once they work on their mobility / posture. Great weightlifters and weightlifters that have been training since their childhood don't have this kind of problem.
I just hurt my forearm rolling the bar on my finger, i will try ur technique. Thank you
How these videos keep getting informative continues to amazes me. Good work.
Klokov was clear!
In Russia opening hands is biggest mistake!
Cerdelimo and you should squat comfortable like with friends&vodka outside xD
These are all foe experts that know nothing lol. In poland this is a joke.
Jen dobre from my mother's hometown, Bialystok!
Anywhere it's a big mistake in all reality.
@@authenticbaguette6673 pretty sure he was talking ab crossfit coaches. obviously he isnt trashing an olympian
This is a GREAT explanation for why the Crossfit way of doing things is wrong, besides just showing tons of videos of 150 - 300 pound barbells rolling off the balls of a crossfitter's fingertip.
Dude! Thanks so much for this vid!! It absolutely adressed a critical matter that i personally struggled with in crossfit for some time!
man I never thought to use straps in the front squat to keep the f*****g pinky from leaving the bar. Actually genius.
Mueller Nikolaï always the pinky lmao
I learned that from a video of Alexei Torokyiy or however the fuck you spell his name
I used straps to front squat until I got my lats and wrists mobile
🤣🤣🤣🤣 how annoying is that I have the same problem
Oooh, I think you've answered my question of why I can squat so much more by grasping the uprights on the Power rack than I can by free standing - weakness in my back. I balance a Safety Squat bar on my shoulders which leaves my hands free to grasp the power rack uprights. Then I can freely go up and down in the squat and work my legs. But, I see where that leaves out half my body (my back muscles) and isolates to mainly my thighs just like on a leg press machine. I can see that I've got some remedial work to do to balance out my muscles. THANKS FOR ANOTHER GREAT TIP ZACK.
Looks like im starting from scratch again. LIVE FOR THE GRIND!! thanks Zack Telander.
You deserve no less than 3m subscribers. I appreciate you, sir
I have recent;y been having problems with my front rack position. This video came out at perfect. Gods plan.
Hello man, thanks to you, I realized that I have to improve my push press and my squats, I do crossfit and every day I try to improve. greetings from Argentina
I gotta report in, just went to a CF Level 1 seminar and they updated this to know have you full grip and if you can’t you need to improve mobility! I know this will be lost in the comment section but they are improving and I can’t wait for my to take my level 1 weightlifting!
Awesome cues on how to get a full grip on the bar! Thanks a lot.
I take all your tips back with me to my box here in Florida! Love having this base knowledge from your videos.
Catching up on your past videos, this will now be my warmup before front squats.
This was an excellent description of mobility requirements for novice olympic lifters that is understandable by novice lifters. thank you!
I liked the exercises in the end. I'm a crossfiter but I do weightlifting with pro weightlifter, so I get all this cues.
I totally agree on what you said. I started Crossfit 5 years ago and NO weightlifting experience. Then I fell in love with weightlifting and worked my ass to get proper mobility. Yes guys you should be able to keep those elbows up while having a full grip on the bar and still resting on your shoulders. If you cannot do that, then you simply have to work on your mobility.
I practice and love to train CrossFit style. This video is a an excellent source of weightlifting knowledge and I have personally learned from it. Happy to say my rack positioning is a lot better than the one shown but now I know how I can improve it even more! Thank you for the tips!
Dude, thank you so much for running that point of where I struggle into my front squat. Awesome pointers.
So brilliant. I love this guy’s ability to articulate this stuff!
Went to his seminar in Dublin and loved it. Can't wait to pass on the knowledge that I've gained to my members. Thanks Zack. Looking forward to seeing you in our gym at some stage in the future.
I do crossfit and am lucky that one of our coaches is a seasoned weightlifting coach, but I will be using this routine in my free training, I keep losing my little fingers on the clean and it makes getting into the jerk a real bitch. Thanks again for a great video dude 👍
A guy just snatched my deadlift. I will just keep browsing this damn youtube...
p.s. Thanks for the great content, brother. Just recently discovered your channel. Very educating. Keep up the good work! 100k is coming.
So many experts in the comments. Thanks for the video. I found it very informative.
Zack, I appreciate the insight to the positioning and drills to correct/improve. Excellent, excellent detail. Thanks!
As a Crossfiter this is super eye opening and cool to think about! You don’t know what you don’t know right! A huge problem for me is collapsing forward. Time to work on that thoracic and hip mobility
Holy shit, you have 14,000 subscribers? I’ve been watching these videos for the past few days thinking you’re at 100,000+. This has been a surprise. But great content, definitely one of the under appreciated TH-cam channels.
Just started watching. I feel like you were spot on with the crossfit. Alot of people join for several reasons with minimal knowledge and just take the advice from all the different coaches and their habits. I really liked the improvement video at the end
Wow as a crossfittee who is entering oly more seriously ive watched my videos with cleans and really seen how the elbows up is not as helpful as spine position. Amazing video, Zack!
I tried doing the strap in front squats and overhead pressing and it has helped a lot. Shoulders are moving a lot better and back squat shoulder position has become a lot more efficient and comfortable as well. Still working on the sotts press and cheeky ohs but
I love you too 💚
thank you so much for sharing all that knowledge, means a lot! Regards from Spain Zack 💪🏽✨
I'm glad I find your video, this is exactly what I think, the most important is the form of the movement and the technique (and not how many reps you can do in X time)
Great advice and very imformative,,, perfect form before function will make you stronger in the long run!!!
OMFG. Me so much at 4:50. Great content, Zach. Just started taking weightlifting seriously after being a Crossfitter for several years.
Dear Zack, If you truly don't want to come down on crossfit all the time, maybe just call out wrongly taught fitness in general. And not call your videos weightlifing vs crossfit. I learned the wrong way in normal fitness and got corrected by my crossfit coach. Appart from this, great video.
Loving your videos Zack. I've been strength training for two years now, but recently on Saturdays I've been going into the gym and practicing the Oly lifts under light load (video analysis and all). Your videos are a huge help since I cannot afford coaching at this time. Once I can afford a good coach Ill probably switch over to Oly lifting full time but for now I can't thank you enough for the introduction to the sport.
subscribed to your channel from this one video. This was very helpful and great explanation. Can't wait to see the rest of your channel
I significantly enjoy your videos even if i'm not into weightlifting (rather than in calisthenics). You offer highly informative and quality videos. Keep it up!
I'm a CrossFit coach, and I always have my athlete grip the bar with a full hand. Fingertips are only allowed when doing front squats from the rack and mobility makes it difficult to fully grip the bar, it is part of the progression. As for the thoracic spine, a neutral spine should be maintained, whether at the top or a the bottom of the squat, the aim should be to keep good form. The level 1 certification course is meant for new entrants, and should be seen as a primer, but each graduate should make an effort to develop & extend his/her skill set.
This is a great video! I've been lifting for years and had given up getting my full hand on the bar a long time ago. It's great when I can find a video that teaches me something that potentially solves an old problem for me (time will tell).
u nail it with this one,i found out my hips were preventing me for snatch and u just confirmed it cheers bruh
Alright, you've convinced me. I'm going to try to keep my hands on that darn bar. I've got great hip/knee/ankle mobility. My thoracic mobility is . . . tolerable. I *feel* like my elbows are going to pop when I keep my hands on there, but I will PERSEVERE!!! I can clean/jerk 1.5x my body weight (45 years old), but that hand-on-the-bar thing . . . ! So hard. I'll try!
After corssfit i went to weightlifting gym/coach. I started lift more a bit and it was more natural to grip full hand. I figured that out by my own. You confirm what i was thinking doing cf classes. This way (full grip) i can put bar on hand with more precision without pain in wrist. Moreover i can rotate internally arm more becaouse there is no pain on hand. But i can't do it on PVC pipe - to light. THX for vids!
So glad I waited to try these by myself without any direction whatsoever.
thanks Bro...i am a new crossfitter and i was struggling just yesterday on power cleans and front squat....from the gym we mostly did that crosshand grip so everything felt foreign
..your video makes so much sense imma try it out later
I keep my spine in neutral in my front rack, and can still keep my whole hand on the bar.
As a matter of fact the only lift I extend my spine in is the bench press.
I brace from neutral because I am exponentially stronger there.
I learned that from the dark side strength guys.
I actually clicked this video just to see if you believe in extension in the front rack or not.
Although we have that disagreement I learned alot about the clean from your videos.
I am guilty of the starting strength powerclean where the elbows do not flare. I got tired of missing, and hitting my collar bone. Your method of cleaning is better suited for my position with the ribs down.
Thank you, and you are subbed.
I remember that when I learnt the basics of weightlifting, was all about stretching and mobility.
Besides, weightlifters have the best posture.
This is such a useful video for beginners, really good to get off on the right start and this video is terrific. Thank you very much good sir
I'm almost 50years old, I've played rugby for many years, then powerlifting, ( personal best 227kg bench/300kg squat/Deadlift) 10years ago. Now I feel sore all time, inflexible. But I'm finding weight lifting extremely interesting, flexibility aspect is great interest. I'm way to old to pushing massive weights but I love to learn more about correct technique, great video 👍🥇
I think I just found my new favourite TH-cam channel
I see Clarence I click like
This is literally the exact video is needed... Starting those drills tomorrow!
I appreciate the information you provide in your videos.
Great video. Full disclosure, I was introduced to the barbell movements via CrossFit and have my Level 1. You rightly point out the one of the great things CrossFit has done has brought weightlifting and compound barbell movements more into the fitness 'mainstream', which is a good thing. Now, regarding the point of the video, I would argue that the clip you showed of the training seminar may not do the coaching methodology justice. Every CF coach I've been exposed to has mentioned that a fingertip hold on the barbell in the front rack is a less than ideal position and should ultimately be progressed as shoulder mobility (and mobility overall) improves. Many people come to CF (as I did) with internally rotated shoulders and a tight upper back....this is epidemic in our society. It took about 2 years and I'm now able to front squat with a full-hand grip...as you might expect, loading and overall proficiency in the lifts has improved. I see this same evolution in the athletes I see in the gym everyday. Fingertip hold, while not ideal, is a starting point. I see the same issue with squatting to below parallel. Lots of athletes start without the ability to squat to depth, but as they work at it, technique and movement patterns improve. Just my 2 cents. Love your channel and I find the information every helpful!!
Great comment, I was starting to lose hope in humanity after reading all the CrossFit hate comments.
Bringing oly lifts to the fitness mainstream is like saying it's great that you can now get a bypass operation done in Subway. They are complicated lifts and are learnt and practiced over years, not over a fake weekend seminar. Fitness mainstream goes to Planet Fatness and have no business doing snatches or c&j's.
I just gotta thank you for this vid! It made my front squat way more solid!
Holy shit, i just saw you put on a show at the TSS chop 2 meet. And (if i remember correctly and you attend A&M) then you and your AM homies crushed us as the meet before that. Thanks for putting out some good educational stuff, helps for personal use and as a newer coach
Amazing video! I've got some major hip dysfunction and very limited ankle dorsiflexion and I'd really like a one stop shop on how to fix it. So I'm voting for you to make a squat video.
Thanks for this content Zack, it's gold. Bring your seminars to Toronto, Canada.
I'd love to. Have your gym email me! coachzacktelander@gmail.com
Dude, bad ass video. I’m gunna show this to my class at Crossfit.
thanks for the insight, will definitely learn full grip, and see if i can pass this on to my clients who wants to optimize their front rack.
Great video. I have this exact problem and the excercises you showed will be of much needed help, thank you sir
Great presentation brother!!!! Concise and very detailed towards the key elements of Olympic Movements!!!!
I tried the methods, absolutely useful, thanks for sharing this!
I really ejoyed Sincraian seminar with irish guys, now can't wait for you to join Clarence. Excellent
Good video. My CrossFit gym does tell us to try to maintain a full grip in the front rack position.