EU referendum: Will Self and Dreda Say Mitchell debate Brexit
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Novelist and commentator Will Self, who's supporting Remain, and the crime writer and journalist Dreda Say Mitchell, who's voting Leave, debate the EU referendum on the eve of voting.
"I was in Stoke about 5 years ago and I was shocked about how very different it was to London" Quote of the campaign right there
Londoners do not travel outside london they go to there airport lhr and know the south of france better than wots on the other side of the m25 darling
Oh and you forgot to mention our yachts that we embark on from Dover and our private jets at our airfields. My point is that there are some poor people in London actually.
i do not know anyone who berths in Dover most birth in Antibes and have the vessels brought up to Cannes for boarding as for airfields there is only raf northolt that we use
scruffylee :) quality! I wouldn't know because I'm only a commoner you see.
Ow i see ..well i must point out to you that that is not a yacht in Dover it a ferry darling you embarked on what we joke as a loser mover mwhah..have a peasant evening
comes to something when dear old SELF-ie needs to be taught patriotism by a black british Woman, but good on Her
Patriotism is for the unimaginative who want to take credit for the achievements of others, and blame outsiders when it all goes wrong.
Though she could learn good manners?
I like Will Self, though he should know that "The best lack all conviction..." is from W.B. Yeats, not W.H. Auden.
I don't - if I ever meet him I;ll do time.
".... And what rough beast, it's hour come at last
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born"
There is an arrogant man talking down to a passionate and intelligent woman.
"I was in Stoke about 5 years ago and I was shocked about how very different it was to London". A quote for the ages,.
I'm a fan of Will Self but I think he lost the plot here.
W.H.Auden! What a howler! The quote is from ‘The Second Coming’, by W.B.Yeats. It’s one of the greatest poems in the language. Back to school, Will.
let me take a guess - you went to Grammar School?
Imagine if the Brexiteer was white British. Self would have been calling them a Nazi
The opening shot of Will Self looking smug with his arms folded pretty much set the stage for this car crash of a "debate". What a pseudo-intellectual.
M C - By Jove! You can't even string a coherent sentence together.
Auden might well have been right, but isn't Will quoting Yeats?
loooool
wow, this has aged well.
I have notice something interesting... Most black Brits and other Brits (descendent of non European countries, mainly Pakistan and India and similar) are going to vote to leave! Why is that?
They are racist.... nah I think they just think more logically because they don't have the racism guilt some idiots are feeling for some reason
Larry Fisher
uhhh... I dont think so, I have seen many black Brits discriminating against other black Europeans for example.
Maybe they want to open space for their own people (the people from where they are descendents).
amataratsu006 who knows
+amataratsu006 majority of blacks want to remain, the asians want to leave because they are buisness owners.
What's the source of this 'fact'? They brought her on the show because her opinion is unusual given her ethnicity.
Will Self should tell the young unemployed in EU countries how lucky they are to be in the EU. He should tell Greece how lucky they are to be part of the EU...
Yep. Can't adjust their interest rates to help their economy as they're tied to the ERM.
The Greeks are going to get their marbles back now 😂
A group of singers from London-based choirs joined forces to sing the EU anthem around various locations (Downing Street, Parliament Square) to encourage people to vote. I love the Die Hard comment though! Hahahaha
its interesting how the all the Africans. Pakistanis and Indians vote to leave to stop Europeans from coming to UK
so you want a point based system introduced for the British coming to the EU? and bring more people to the uk form other continents? Commonwealth is just a historical idea, the colonial empire is gone. UK is in Europe not in Asia or middle east.
+admonster11 fact
I seriously doubt that vote leavers want people from Africa and Pakistan to come over then Europeans. Dont buy it for one second.
Low skilled ?? LOL You mean *NO* skilled, unless housebreaking requires an apprenticeship.
@@saeefaNot the majority but there were and still are a lot like Cruella Braverman, Richie Sunak and Priti (nasty) Patel, who think the drawbridge should be raised now their family is established.
"Auden had it right" - no Will, that's WB Yeats you just quoted there ("the second coming").
Is someone watching Die Hard on a loud telly in the background?
Tee hee. No that was a load of choral singers singing 'Ode to Joy' the European National Anthem at the top of our voices all around Westminster (you can see us in the far background) It's surprising how much noise 20 singers can make and it makes me smile to think that we made both sides in tht debate look a bit uncomfortable.
Were you singing it ironically?
+Carol Hartfree traitor
Jesus christ, I thought it was impossible to lose an argument with Dreda Say Mitchell but I'm now very confused. What was Will Self on about?
Poor old Will. Having to face off against a real working class person. Hecouldn't spew out the racist line so was left wittering pseudo intellectual nonsense.
Will Self looked horribly out of touch with working class Britain here.
i think he is just getting old
Ur obviously no class.
*****
They certainly are trying to punish us - but why do you want to be in an institution (which is in deep s**t itself incidentally) where if you have the temerity to want to leave they try to 'kneecap' you ?
***** I like my eggs with punctuation marks. It makes a comment look like less incomprehensible drivel. How does it feel to be on the LOSING side ?
I think the AIDS is really affecting him.
Refreshing to see a black person say that 99% of all Brexit voters are not racist. Thank you.
It is, but it's also kind of sad because it should be obvious given the actual definition of racism.
epiphany55 Racism is being prejudice and inciting violence/hate against someone for their skin colour, no matter what that skin colour is.
Please stop being racist by policing how black people should think about racism. Black people and POC are not there for white middle class liberals ( and their adherents) to hide their anti white working class attitude, denial of a POC working class behind. And until you have walked in somebody's shoes, do not define for them what is "sad" based upon definitions in dictionaries that are desecrated, daily by The Left in order to stifle arguments or deny culpability. Fuck of with your patronisation.
Petra Brown Who is your comment aimed at? Because I see no racism here.
***** Exactly. Even the worst of the Brexit campaign has not been about skin colour. It's been more "resourcist" than racist.
I was just watching the debate these two had after the result, and I noted how obnoxious Will seemed, presumably because he was angry over losing, but to be honest he's fairly obnoxious here too. I've gone off so many people lately.
When the elite are threatened they reveal how horrible and racist they really are.
Brilliant interview, both make excellent points. Shame we didn't have more like this
Will Self isn't so sympathetic, but still, he's a great talker. Dreda is first class
Dreda is an idiot.
We'll all be singing Ode To Joy after this.
Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wenig Englander.
Will ripped her a new one. x :)
You like looking up to middle class liberal scum do you??
I'm not liberal scum I'm literal scum. The build up around bath tubs etc. communicating by electro-telekinesis. Hello Human.
Not all Brexiters are racists, but all Racists voted for Brexit. make no mistake about it. Prove me wrong.
No, you lost. I'm sure you're also another of those that thinks War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength. I feel sorry for you.
Petra Brown Eh? You've exposed white middle class liberal hypocrisy because the comment thread on a Guardian article about washing chicken (if I remember correctly) showed that they as a class they were unaware it was a common practice? And that the working classes have a more cohesive relationship with foreigners because immigrants also wash meat? Am I reading you right? Surely more comprehensive examples are needed to expose the extent of middle class liberal hypocrisy. Also, for the record, my grandmother was as working class as Ena Sharples and I never recall her washing meat, so I'm not sure it's as widespread amongst the working classes as you claim.
On a side note, the phrase "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" should rightly be attributed to Yeats, not Auden. Absolutely crucial that people should be aware of this of course.
3 years on...Will was right
Will Self, the arrogance of the Metropolitan elite in human form
Will Self hasn't got a clue about how hard it is to be working class in the UK.
+Captain Mantastic Labour has never been for the working class, they like the dole que votes and the immigratents votes. Much more reliable.
Liberal Media Bias
I guess that's why labor want to stay in the EU as their share of the vote will go up as more and more immigrants enter the country.
+tomlinid something like 90% of Muslims vote labour.
Liberal Media Bias
Labor probably wants Turkey to join the EU.
+tomlinid No probably about it. Tony Blair gets paid hundreds of millions as an EU peace envoy! EU politisians milk lobbyists, big expenses and get huge pensions without being elected which politician wouldn't vote for the gravy train.
Can the twelfth rate demagogue cease platitudes for ten seconds to let the greatest living English writer speak?
Thanks Will, I think you helped secure the leave victory.
Was he wrong though?
It was Yeats not Auden who wrote that Will
I'm so happy:) England is free again ps tell will self thanks from me we could not of done it without him hahahaha
Enjoy watching the leave campaigners fail to delivery on all their key promises.
They will not control immigration - there will be no more money for the NHS - they will still have to abide by the EU rules to trade with them and you will not see wages rise.
Also enjoy another recession while the country is sold out to corporate interests.
People like you are good at telling people like me we will fail. but we didn't fail to win this election. against all odds and Project fear
And we will not fail to fix the terible situation david Cameron tony Blair and the others befour have left us in. Today we won are contrey back !
Bullying people never works:)
TV interview - Farage: I can't guarantee EU money will go on the NHS
Nigel Farage says it was a mistake for Vote Leave to say the UK would be able to spend £350m on the NHS after a Brexit.
They lied to get your vote and you won nothing but despair and a tanking economy - bravo.
We got rid of cameron:) next its george coke sniffer Osborn and the wet lettuce that is Corbin so at least three usless fucks out of parliment.
Then the rest of Europe will follow are lead they all want out of this expensive eu nightmare and free of the imf criminal bank. For once politics will be intresting to watch. As for the money we can't do much worce than give it away to Europe. The NHS will get what it needs. Hopefully out of the defence budget or We will have to speak again a bit louder this time ! Things did change today. Decent people United against the establishment and set a example to Europe. A fiew pence off the pound dose not bother me things are not Allways about money
What about Britain?
as a writer I think that Dreda is top of her game. Will however is to literature what cubism is to art. However the arguments as presented I must say that Will was a lot more logical.Brexiters by and large have shown themselves to be at least xenophobic and some what frightened of the real world as posed by the eu. In a years time there will be no shining chariot to deliver us from the EU only shoddy old hackney carriage to deliver us toold worn out outdated dreams of Empire.
Hi Nostradamus..
England, you're a basket case now, which will drown in broken promises and resentment. See ya! Regards. Scotland.
Can I join you?
Sincerely, a young Londoner who is part Scottish (Fife).
Come on up friend, you are welcome here.
Leigh Douglas #LadsOnTour
I will be extremely pleased if Scotland stays in the EU and Edinburgh or Glasgow becomes the new London
People vote on final deal anyone?
@5.57 He says he's currently living in South London. Roughing it in his 4 storey multi million pound Georgian townhouse.
Isn't Dreda a bit thick?
1:02 it wasn't Auden. It was Yeats.
Also, this whole thing about 'the country must now come together and make Brexit work'. No. The cuntry will never come together over Brexit and that, of course, reflects the awful class system of the United Kingdom as reinforced by the Tories who are constantly initiating policies that benefit the rich and damage the poor. It's a truly awful cuntry, whichever way you look it. And yes, I deliberately omit the 'o' in the word 'country' when it refers to the UK.
Self - We live in a frebile and visiparous world - this is about preserving what stability we have.
Mitchell - (obviously had no idea what either of those adjectives meant replied) - What stability?
LOL
Consultez votre dictionnaire...
'fissiparous'
You spelled both those words wrong.
LOL
Sorry but I don't understand what those words mean either.. I can replace a clutch in a car though.... however I guess that still leaves me below your level of accepted intelligence and definitely Selfs, so I probably shouldn't be allowed to vote due too being to stupid... Fair enough..
@@Vegansharks When I don't understand words I have not heard - I educate myself and I look them up.
I would never think I am too stupid to learn or to vote,
Didn't actually discuss a single argument for staying in or out of the eu.
Auden never said that. It was Yeats. The poem is 'The Second Coming'.
Will self on the money
What's that coming over the hill Will is it a monster? No Will, your on smack mate and it's the Brexit voters celebrating the right result...snort it up Will and live with it!
All of Dreda's points… have nothing to do with the EU.
because she was for leaving. it's like Will said, leave campaigners' arguments came from the heart, not the head, an mostly could not be reasoned with.
When it comes down to it forget all the "experts" and all the ideology junkies (no names) and VOTE WITH YOUR HEART ! That's why I wil be voting BREXIT !
I think that's how cultists think just before they drink the Kool-Aid isn't it?
First time I have seen Will Self look weak and have to resort to ad hominem remarks rather than further his own position
Not so smug now eh Will ? Please feel free to relocate to Gdansk, Craiova or any other EU paradise you wish to choose. Britain will thrive without you.
I will never ever buy a Will Self book he makes my skin crawl.
I voted Leave. My Mum voted Leave. My wife voted Leave. My childminder and her husband voted Leave. My mum's neighbours voted Leave. The porters at my kids school voted leave and the school CCF officer said he voted Leave. I didn't know I lived in such a hotbed of racism!!
Have you realised yet?
How ridiculous. Talk about a breakdown in communication. Will begins the sentence "Not all Brexiters are racist -- but..." and Dreda interrupts to say in a sarcastic tone, rolling her eyes to the sky, "I'd like to think not!" -- implying that black people cannot be racist. Will then responds to this by telling her that just because she is black, doesn't mean she can't be racist. To which she then replies, "Wow, hang on a minute, y'know, I'm not a racist", totally misconstruing his words. Are you serious woman? He didn't say you were! Unfuckingbelievable.
Welcome to Brexitter politics. They still do it now.
You still celebrating leaver’s 😂😂😂😂😂
Self for PM. Or Doctor Who AT LEAST.
By the end of all this omnishambles Dr. Who will be the only thing left for Britons to refer back to the UK.
Although the English may have to import it from Wales. At least there will be only a 5% tariff under WTO rules.
It was Yeats, Will.
big up
People keep blaming the state of 'northern' England on the EU, but surely it's got much more to do with Tory party policies: starving local authorities, austerity, non-EU immigration. I can't imagine Brexiteers were worried about French nurses and Spanish accountants, as Nick Cohen put it recently.
What a disgustingly arrogant attitude from Will Self, he owes Dreda Say Mitchell an abject apology.
Dreda 1 Will 0
40 yrs of wage stagnation here and in the E.U. I wonder how much wage stagnation will self has suffered
Pay your bloody taxes aswell.
does that woman EVER shut up???????
Not all those who wish to remain are condescending members of the privileged metropolitan elite, but the most condescending and over privileged members of the metropolitan media will vote Remain.
Stewart Lee did that joke better.
Notorious Nish-nosher, Stewart Lee, is the living embodiment of that joke.
this woman is the epitamy of how polticians should act - answering questions to the best of their ability and will self is the epitamy of the reality of politics- sweeping statements and aggressive rude and patronising behaviour of a hormonal adult teenager.
You got your wish. All of our politicians are idiots these days.
Stoke, five years ago. ☺
Perfect example of arrogance being thrashed by reality.
who is she?
That's Yeats not Aulden
It's about democracy which unfortunately has not been fully debated during the campaign. The EU has a sham democracy where elected MEP's can not instigate, change or repel legistration. They can vote it down with recommendations, but it normally keeps returning albiet minor changes. It is the EU commission that introduces legistration under a cloud of secrecy and there is no political oversight by elected representatives. That is really why I voted leave as our system is not perfect, but is much better than the EU. The commission is totally lobbied by big global corporations and you do not get to see the vested interests. That is why the super rich and elite are trying to get everyone to vote reamain. TTIP is a good example of this which has even got progressive liberals decifing to vote leave. There are plans afoot to actually amulgamate all nations in one superstate and their will nothing that the UK can do about it and it will not be democractic. Even the PM's VETO will have an overule soon. Our parents and grand parents were conned and lied to when we joined the EEC (Common Market). They can be forgiven, but we have the chance to right this wrong. If we vote Remain today the next generations will hate us for it.
"Not all Brexiters are racist, but all racists are Brexiters." Exactly!
will self couldn't talk to any normal person without them punching his smug face in.
he quoted yeats and attributed it to auden....
Wow ! ... Will for the first time ever has let me down big time.... Will darling , Orkney immigrants are ALL white retired English & Scottish mainlanders ! if you think that's typical UK ...?....God help you
Will Self comes under the heading of what John Pilger describes - "The most effective propagandists of the "European ideal" have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even "cool". What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as "neoliberalism".
You can sense the fear of the remain politicians..... if we leave, they'll have to do some work.
Lol. Enjoying your controlled borders and cheaper shoes?
Dread:- try blaming a Tory government for your problems and NOT the EU!!!!
jeez woopie goldberg even diid on a cold rainy night in stoke!
That Will Self is lying! blatantly out of touch and arrogant!
Will makes very good intelligent points. Dreda & other foolish leave supporters just can't understand intellect.
So a white man calling a black woman is an intellectual point, you are a looney leftist and maybe a racist too
Typical Incorrect Brexit leaver stupid point.
So a white man calling a black woman racst is an intellectual point??? Go back to nazi Germany
What are you talking about you complete utter moron. Don't try twisting the facts and there is more than one group of people involved here.
If you want to pull the racist card, take a look at yourself as you mentioned it. It's people like you who are racist & especially if you voted leave. Black, white or yellow has nothing to do with it, it's a mental state & how you treat others. People who voted leave are nothing but stupid & racist. The NHS is falling apart & the cost of living will drastically increase, Scotland wants to separate itself from the fools.
You are racist because you are white, i can call you racist because i am from an ethnic background. You seem to think that only white people voted leave, news flash skin head black people and hispanics like myself voted leave to stop your EU gravy train.
Mitchell pissed all over self
It was Yeats not Auden. .... the Second Coming. Its ok Will we forgive you.
Will Self is someone I admire; he is also the Supreme Commander at the apex of leftist social/political commentary. He brings up racism which shows how lacking his arguments are. One would think he'd have thought about this in a little more depth, but he hasn't. He was shown up in front of the whole nation by a couple of intellectual lightweights, as utterly out of touch.
Will self has no clue.
Britain's very divided. It wants to vote out, but peoples love for David Cameron makes it a hard choice
Sarcasm? Who loves Cameron?!
He is andy. Many love him . and to tories out...I see your not a fan though by ur name thing.
andy mane
Poor Ed Milliband......
andy mane
Well he has.. but well, peoples love for David was just slightly lower than their want of leaving
voting leave but that woman is intolerable
Will Self can't be bothered to get dressed properly or even support his own body weight a really good advertisement for remain 😂
Rees Mogg fashions himself on Will Self but lacks the brain.
the modern left is the glastonbury middle class set
Dreda Say Nonsense
Will Self lives in a bubble
This should go viral!
Love Dreda, but on the issue of poetry pedanticism it seems the showily erudite Mr Self does not know his Auden from his Yeats.
i thought woopie goldberg didnt get a vote because shes american?
have fun votinggreat britain or german britain
Mitchell fake smiling like a goon and talking in sound bites. Self makes perceptive points.
Not all remain are muslims but all muslims vote remain. I too can play this game.
Yeats...
Ha ha ha……Will Self is such a dreary snob
Breeds. Veey rude.
As soon as they drop the racist card.....we can start hearing proper debate! I have not watched bonking boris or farage & never will. everybody I know voted out of the EU Simple. A rerun of the ridiculous 'anti-semitism' in the Labour Party - vote out & your a racist...Hardly, We need more refugees - Nato referendum next Please!
west hampstead lololololol