How to Ruin a Race Track | Laguna Seca
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Looks like I'm a bit...... cork-screwed in the head. HA
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I'd call the corkscrew a chicane. It's just a chicane with huge elevation change.
Explaining why bad racetracks are bad would be great as well.
Not just a chicane... A fucking bus stop chicane. A BUS STOP CHICANE
Fiona Beutrix It's not, but I'm sure you like to think you know things.
Quintinohthree sigh... From a design perspective, it is. Just look at another famous bus stop chicane, let's say, the Modern Spa track. Place that over top the cork screw and they're damn near identicle. The key part of the corkscrew is it's elevation change. And yikes, all this hostility? Looks like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed
Quintinohthree Yeah, the initial right turn is far too easy for it to really be a traditional bus stop.
Fiona Beutrix The Bus Stop at Spa isn't a bus stop chicane anymore though. A bus stop involves a combination of a left-right followed by a right-left or the other way around and a straight in between that is usually parallel or nearly parallel to the straight it diverts from. The chicanes at Daytona and Watkins Glen are examples of this. The Bus Stop, despite its name, has not been a bus stop since 2007 or even 2002 depending on the strictness of your definition.
Also, I'm right, you do indeed like to think you know things even when you clearly don't.
How To Ruin Laguna : Play The Crew 2. The End.
I just realised I misspelled N with M
HCR This man knows his shit
I shuddered when I read this, that game in general is a pile of buggy piss too
Well yes because Laguna Seca is a meh layout saved by elevation.
HCR yup. And somehow the pianos can send you out of the united states.
In the crew 2 it’s not bad
I mean in The Crew 2 the corkscrew is a chicane
I think a “What makes a racetrack bad” video in a “Soapbox” style would be good. Another good track to ruin would be Le Mans.
He hasn't done Le Mans because it's part street circuit and he doesn't do street circuits for reasons he explains in an older HTRART video
He could only ruin part of the circuit or do the GP circuit.
@@alexgutknecht4632 The GP circuit is already bad. Anything he would do would be an improvement like removing turn 7 or 8. That track is so short, those corners aren't needed. They could sweep 7 or 8 into a pure long left hander, then put a wide turn 9 (then 8) with a double kink in the final turns 10 and 11.
Another great idea: making the Corkscrew cut straight down the hill. No funny chicaney business, just a flat-out, completely safe kink
metaphoricalemon // Just turn it into a jump and make a huge wide landing area
I wanted to say that would ruin the circuit, but then i realised that that is the entire point of this series
I think the Corkscrew has many of the characteristics typical of a chicane, but overall feels more like a tight s-bend. An anti-Eau Rouge/Radillion, so to speak.
I think the primary reasons for this are that:
a) The track does not deviate from any obvious faster line at the Corkscrew.
b) The Corkscrew fits very naturally into the flow of the circuit.
c) The large elevation change is not typically present at most chicanes. One would expect any chicane to be placed before the large elevation change, such as the Eau Rouge chicane from Spa in 1994
It is the utopian chicane, because it is still a back to back sequence of 2 apexes like any other chicane (except for the ones with three apexes) but is good.
I would love to se what makes a racetrack bad video
Me too!
Formula 1
@@russianbubbawallace8681 *Tilke
Medium speed 90° corners. Abu Dhabi and Russia have plenty if we're talking F1 circuits. Unecessary Esses that you can't pass through. 2nd Gear Hairpins that aren't after a long straight. Chicanes that ruin flow and are only there to attempt to increase overtaking, and fail at that. Just a few things I've seen.
Minimal overtaking opportunities
Rather forgettable
Ruin Watkins Glen...
RIP flow
Watkins Glen is ruined. That 3.4 mile course is the most unusual thing I ever seen. Anything he would do to it would be an improvement. I was never crazy about the Esses either. The bus stop was okay. Challenging, takes a lot of patience to suceed at it, can't pass on it, but it was okay.
i hate that people are so thick headed that you have to explain.... in multiple videos.... the purpose of this series
Love your Videos Mr. SouthPawRacer
"The inherent irony and sarcasm seems to be lost on quite a few people..."
Lmao welcome to America, where subtlety is almost always misunderstood.
It could also just be context for new watchers, not everyone has watched any given series since episode 3-or-earlier.
I think I'd actually enjoy driving the first sector, turn 2 is like shanghai's turn 1 but not being a pain in the ass
ok. interesting. no joke implied.
Sure man, I would love to see “what makes a racetrack bad” video : )
P.S: what is the outro song ?
Outro song is one of my own compositions - titled "Threshold Braking" (haven't officially released it anywhere yet)
SouthPawRacer Oh ok, thanks
How to know what makes a racetrack bad: drive around Yas Marina
How to know what makes a racetrack good: drive around Spa Francorchamps or Suzuka
Those are probably the best examples, one is flat, dull and full of 90° turns with 0 flow and immense runoff areas (street circuits like Singapore or Baku are also flat and full of 90° corners, but the walls keep you on your toes) and the others have amazing elevation changes and a lot of awesome corners. You simply try them, you'll understand it then. Idk where you can drive Yas Marina, a lot of sims and games have Spa and/or Suzuka, but the only games I know with Yas Marina are the F1 games, I wonder why...
Leaving the turn after the corkscrew intact is actually a stroke of brilliance. Since T1 destroyed your right front tire, laguna seca will have become a rally cross track just by having a huge ammount of drivers run into the graveltrap at the exit. Brilliant!
Do a track guide of this!!! Also please ruin Paul Ricard, could have fun with that one 😂
Paul Ricard is already ruined 😂
to ruin Paul Ricard even more you need to add at least 5 new layouts nobody can remember
Alistair O'Gara tilke already did the job
It already has no flow, no elevation changes, massive safe runoffs and so many different layouts they use cones to show people which way to go
How the hell do you ruin Le Castellet? anything he changes is just going to make it better. What it needs is embedded lights so they can switch circuit layout on the fly mid-race...
How the hell do the drivers see marshall flags there? binoculars?
I love this series, please keep doing them and ignore the trolls. It's just for fun people! All the circuits you ruin are favourites of mine, but I love seeing how bad you can make them. Can you try to out-Tilke Tilke and do Hockenheimring next?
I guess if I had to ruin Laguna Seca I would make it... Flat and replace the Corkscrew with a freaking Straight...
A flat corkscrew would be just a chicane, so making it flat would ruin the track entirely
The tightening corner from Shanghai is what I call a spirograph corner. I think it's unpleasant because after braking for a corner we just want to get to the apex and get back on the throttle, and that feels like progress. When the corner's long and tightening it feels like the it's being very needy and won't let us go.
If you do any more of these videos you also need a razor sharp hairpin which makes cars look clumsy, preceded by a kink in the same direction which also prevents overtaking E.g. the first corner(s) of the Nurburgring. Bonus points if the track is extremely wide and has no visual reference points.
I totally agree with the start of this video. I see why people like Laguna Seca but for me its the worst track in North America, absolutely hate it.
That's the same for me and Road America. I see why people like it, but I absolutely HATE it
Jake Burton it’s got great history but bad to drive
Jake Burton :(
i could never grow to like RA, thuogh i love Laguna. It definitely feels outdated now but i still enjoy it in iracing rookies
I think it’s a fun hot lap track but the weird braking points tend to make races chaos funny enough my favorite NA track is road America with Leguna a close second
You should ruin silverstone next
Silverstone is already ruined over years and years. Look at the great Layout from 1990 :) and today :/
Well, current Maggots-Becketts is actually an improvement, but most of the current layout is just horrid. Someone tried to convince me the current T1 is a good replacement for Bridge turn...
To ruin it you just need to double back from the exit of the godawful new section to halfway down the hangar strait ( which is actually almost one of the existing layouts, I think - just has a couple more sharp corners ). That removes the good end of the track.
Doge Maverick Almost didn't save Donington - thankfully just lost the Dunlop bridge. But if you want a bland wreck of an airfield circuit then you need to look at Snetterton, left with only one interesting corner these days. Makes Silvy look amazing. Castle Combe also says hi. Croft is great though.
Silverstone straights worked better when the whole track was high speed, but you wouldn't race really low power stuff on the full circuit anyway.
@@Karibanu main problem with Castle Coombe is it's too wide for the amount of runoff it actually has on some corners. You get 3 wides going into a tyre wall. Having raced bicycles on both, I'd say CC is basically Llandow on a bigger canvas. Anticlockwise is the better direction for racing bikes at CC, the view from the top of the hill and the run down makes people start the sprint too early so it's good for picking off places as riders run out of puff and starting your actual sprint 150-100m out. Clockwise doesn't really work because everyone leaves it late as you can't gauge how far it actually is to the line.
@@EmyrDerfel I'd say the main problem with CC is the noise restrictions blocking any idea of investment! if it wasn't for the chicanes you'd never turn left, though... even the original Silverstone perimeter road layout managed that once.
A top class ( at least in terms of national series ) circuit in either somewhere like Somerset, or SE Wales is really missed.
SouthPawRacer ruining one of my favorite tracks on my birthday? Best present ever! I share pretty much all of your frustrations with the track. I struggle with all the same corners, but it's still one of my favorite tracks to race with slower cars (especially Forza's C- and B-class cars). Keep up the excellent work, you madman.
How to ruin a racetrack: Bathurst
pls no
Noreceipts400 hehehe😏
He has mentioned that he can't bring himself to ruin Bathurst.
Your evidently failed unwarping attempt at straightening the run up towards the corkscrew was funny as heck whilst you talked about what makes a racetrack bad. I'd sure like to see that video on what makes a racetrack bad.
How To Ruin A Racetrack: Charlotte Roval.
Just puts on 5 backstretch chicanes
@@davidhonkstvorisit4811 actually you had the room and turned the backstretch into the esses bit from cota, that could work
Please don't stop making these - they are why I subbed!
Top 5 what makes a Racetrack bad...
- no elevation changes
- the track makes the terrain not the other way arroung
- F1 Safety Regulations
- lack of slow and fast Segments or Corners
- concrete run-off areas or concrete everywhere
Honerable Mentions:
- too much money
- Hermann Tilke
- No Space at all... (like in Oschersleben... Is it a rack for cars or karts)
Zanion For that last honourable mention . . .
*Cough cough Macau*
pc_da_ one_84 macau is the best fucking meme
one guy fucks up and it causes a full field pileup
Silverstone, Sebring and Albert Park have no elevation change and I'd be damned in calling them 'bad tracks'
I get the rest, but could somebody mention the issue with concrete?
@@wolfgang_h3t the issue with concrete runoff is that drivers often treat it as additional track. (see the 2019 Indycar race at Cota, Tracklimits weren't enforced in T19)
It is very save way to secure the track and allows drivers to get back into a race instead of getting beached in a gravel trap.
However with concrete there isn't so much of a punishment of leaving the track. often it is faster to do so, leading to weird situations where sometimes it is allowed to leave the track and sometimes it isn't (see F1 Bahrain 2021 as an example)
Concrete takes away part of the challenge of a track which is usually provided by gravel or other types of runoff area making the corner less characteristic. Tracks that feature concrete also use a lot of it. See Paul Ricard and the new Miami circuit. (latter being excused for being a "street" circuit)
But if I'm honest, I prefer the concrete runoffs to the street circuit walls, but that might just be my personal hate against FIA Grade 1 Street circuits
Ruin Monaco 🤷♂️
I don’t consider the corkscrew at Laguna a chicane because it’s not there to slow an otherwise faster bit of track. It’s not there in place of a corner or a long straight, but it’s just the natural layout of the track. I do consider the uphill corkscrew at Estoril a chicane, as it is there to bypass the fast turn that was originally there.
The corkscrew is a heavily bank chicane and it’s funny as heck to drive in real life. My favorite track here in California.
Laguna Seca in all its 144p quality goodness
That first Hairpin as you called it did not exist in the original layout
It went across to the turn that starts up the hill and was a VERY FAST part of the track
didn't watch the video yet but i'm expecting to make everything flat and put chicanes on every corner
Some Alfa Romeo fan tried to carve the Visconti family crest into the infield, but said "ah fuck it."
I've noticed that no Australian circuits have been ruined yet. I think Bathurst or Phillip Island needs the South Paw Treatment.
The Nordschleife, that would be really interesting ;)
You could overlay the original layout together with the "new" one at the end of the video so it will be interesting to see exactly what changed, almost if it was a side by side comparison
As much as I love Laguna Seca, I think that this circuit would be great to drive on if it were made a reality.
I would consider the Corkscrew a chicane but you say that destroying the original Corckscrew and replacing it with a new variant would be bad but it would still have the downhill trait to it, kinda like the chicane at Buenos Aires circuit when F1 went there
The video on what makes a bad race track bad, sounds like a good idea
And if you want a circuit to really destroy, I know a circuit that is fantastic in every way and would really annoy some of the American purists, myself included but would be intrested to see how it goes, and that is Sonoma/Infineon Raceway
Good to see you back, hope all is well with yourself, and keep up the good work, blue like from me!
I’m American and I hate Sonoma
Today is my birthday and I got the best treatment from this video. Thanks for making my day
That low key looks like a fun track but at the same time it looks like h-e-double-hockey-sticks. :D
That new first section with the kink and tightening turn one, looks so much like the bottom end of the International layout of Oulton Park, only driven in reverse. This really is a cracking series Sir, would love to see more of these in the future. Keep up the good work!
Gear ratio's for Camaro SS (550 hp) I use. 1st- 3.62
2nd- 2.42
3rd- 1.87
4th- 1.42
5th- 1.16
6th- 0.95
Final drive- 3.73
Gear are super close and can overlap for short shifting. Don't expect to go 185 MPH.
I'm in the exact same boat, I could see why people like it, but Ik just hate going from fast to slow to fast back and forth so much
is the corkscrew a chicane? technically... yes. does it feel like a chicane? nope. mainly because it's actually both fun and challenging with the elevation and camber changes, and also the "oh god please noone have spun because i can't see anyone" factor when you come over the crest.
A decreasing radius turn after that kink means you aren't moving that fast, so it might be fun for overtaking.
The cork screw is a chichane with one hell of a drop!
The new turn 2... I am fairly certain you have no more front right after a single lap...
10/10
I think Corkscrew is chicane. It has a change of left - right direction within a very short distance..
Honestly I like the track pretty much as well. It has floating corners and kinks as well.
the kinks are really a 'corner' but you can take them fast anyway if you hit the line correctly.
ok the first chicane isn't necessary, it takes a lot of speed in a fast section and the Corkscrew would I miss. it's iconic
Love the Spinal Tap Mach 2 Jazz Odyssey music... Written by Derek Smalls..
I feel like super serious track guides do explain why bad tracks are bad
From experience, your new turns 8 and 9 or the one after the chicane would be fun. Also, I would've just made a straight bypass through the corkscrew because your new chicane would still have lots of elevation change, it'd be like a tighter corkscrew. Other than that, you accomplished ruining Laguna Seca.
I know its not a race track but have you ever heard the "Tail of the Dragon" aka Deals Gap? I have never had the money to go to a race track but back in my prime I could keep up with motorbikes in a 1987 Chevy G20 CARGO VAN! I got the van from my dad's dad (Pappaw) and he went and had a 350ci built for a dirt track late model racecar put in it after the stock 305 blew up. It was light, it had a turbo350 3 speed auto and tall gearing. I took 8 people on a "little ride" down the Dragon and had to pull over so all 8 could puke on the side of the road and another time I raced 4 motorcycles and drifted it so good that the biker's stopped with me just to see what was in that thing to make it do what it did... I just told them "I just keep it in 1st gear and let the rpm's stay right where I want them until I feel the grip come back and... pew... like a bullet on rails! I miss that van and being ABLE to drive like that. (don't be born with a disability kids, it stacks the world against you and takes your dreams and kills them)
Now that I’m looking at these 2-3 years later, you should have someone put these ruined tracks in a sim racing game, then take a lap
The first minute and twenty seven seconds.... That's exactly how I feel about the track too. I understand 100.00%
I love the off-the-cuff, improvisational humor.
Dunno if it's just me, But I'd love to try out these "modified" circuits in a sim XD Just to see how "good or bad" they really are
Its a blind downhill chicane that causes most cars to bottom out upon flattening
Do you want to ruin Hockenheim? Oh wait, you already did in real life.
not gonna lie the new turn 1 and turn 2 looks kinda fun to drive
Always a pleasure to watch!!
ps. The corkcrew is a chicane... It was originally a jump... for the pilot to see his maker I guess.
10:17 The elevation change would actually make this the anti cork screw. I'm not saying that good, but it is something
Albert Park, Donington, Zandvoort or maybe a fictional track, like Grand Valley or even Rainbow Road
Why not using "how to ruin a racetrack" series as information videos (just idea)
Can we have someone put these tracks into things like Assetto and beam.ng?
I'd like to see a return to this series.
And if it doesn't happen I'll have no choice to start a spinoff ruining already bad tracks in a new surprising way, taking all complaints into account
The racetrack I'd like to see ruined is Istanbul Park. I want to see how turn 8 can be brutally murdered
You should have replaced turn five with the last corner. A super slow hairpin right before the long uphill climb!
What makes a racetrack bad... Tielke maybe? Also- first sector looks fun to me- first corner would be kind of like turn 1 at hockenheim, where you use as much kerb as possible.
Actually all you gotta do is just add more super expensive houses with jackass owners to pressure the track into just shutting down because they want a quiet life living next to a damn race track.
Boom, track ruined without changing a turn.
Monaco is bad because there is absolutely no overtaking
Paul Ricard is bad because you have to go half a mile off course before you run into any barrier and the stripes give you vertigo
COTA is bad because it’s a jumbled mess of trying to pick the best parts of F1 circuits and failing in the process
I edited the Red Bull Ring the other day in the way you do your how to ruin a race tracks and it became a nightmare.
Exactly *online* driving in person is totally different
The "old" Laguna Seca was known as "the corkscrew"... before some Tilke ruined it. The design of your new one could aptly be named "The Shout (of the Martian discovering the new Laguna Seca course from his flying saucer)". And yes, after Schopenhauer, Ralph Waldo Emerson and Michel de Montaigne's failed attempts at it, why on earth would not the contender to the title of Poet Laureate of Australia tell us ... what really makes a racetrack bad? Or good for that matter. And it it is the same thing, while he's at it...
Keen for a bad race track guide, could be spun out into two videos discussing real tracks and sim racing perhaps
Absolutely. I would love a what makes a racetrack good/bad video or series.
I'll be honest. That's not that bad. That's an upgrade TBH.
I don't like LS much either, seems to do all the right-angle things US tracks seem to do without much of the other stuff that keeps places like Elkhart fun. Old Laguna which went straight from current T1 to T4 is sort-of interesting. The corkscrew is definitely a chicane, it's just a little more interesting than usual.
This has made me appreciate my home track so much more. Thank you for this.
Yeah it's best to have big gaps between videos so you don't kill it and it keeps fresh and new
Rhys, if you really wanted to make this track whack, another idea is to take the first Left hander after the new chicane, put in a hairpin, then run a parabolica away from the corkscrew and shoot a 120 degree for the top of the hill in reverse too A1 Ring Styria. That would make this thing crazy.
For those who put up their houses or live near race tracks.
Why the fuck are you complaining about the noise?
This ended up in my recs and ended up being more weird and good than I anticipated. Nicely done sir!
I think it would be kinda hilarious to take something like Minis around all of Rhys' creations for some fun charity events.
If you ever bring this series back, could you please do Watkins Glen
+1 for the "Why tracks are bad" video
Honestly if this was a street circuit it would be pretty cool
You made a track that F1 would gladly endorse 😂
Don’t touch the corkscrew. Don’t touch the corkscrew. Don’t touch the corkscrew. Don’t touch the corkscrew. Aw, man......🥺
how to ruin laguna: Don't touch it
please make a vid on good and bad tracks. I really enjoy your videos and your humour!
Explaining the worst of the worst would indeed be cool to listen to.
Laguna Seca is probably my favorite track but at least we share a passionate hatred for Shanghai's turn 1
Hermann Tilke is proud of you
Do Silverstone next please or Sochi autodrom (how to fix a race track)
First corner looks actually okay
well I mean
by replacing the hairpin with shanghai madness you actually made the circuit more interesting
I'm at 8:24 at the moment so there's still opportunity for you to totally ruin Laguna but so far you might have made it dare I say better
You should totally do a "why bad racetracks are bad" video ^_^ Imo it's mostly to do with purpose built tracks nowadays. Virtually unlimited amounts of money to plop down a perfectly designed track instead of letting the land and racers do their thing. Most of the beloved racetracks nowadays pretty much all started as roadcourses or abandoned airfields.
We need someone to create those broke tracks in a game ASAP cause why not
I would love to see your “What Makes a Circuit Good/Bad” video. It sounds like a great idea.
PS #CorkscrewsMatter
I love this series
Nice and easy one to destroy. Silverstone. Make it the original layout effectively but add more chicanes?
Someone needs to mod these tracks into something so we can drive the monstrosities.
You should go watch old CART Indycar races on this track to get a better idea about the gear ratios.
Please do Red Bull Ring Austria. It’s my fav track but it feels just way too small. I’d love to have more..... track and meat to it with out losing its mountain feel
You have a relationship with a race track? And I thought talking to the sky was weird!