How Fast Can a Tesla Turbine Spin?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2022
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Tesla turbines are not used because when we have disks that are rotating very fast, there is a high chance that they tend to warp. This means we need to use special materials, which again increases cost…
Tesla only had warping problems when testing the maximum speed, it is common to test the maximum speed of a turbine no matter what kind it is. I don't have any issues with warping in my tesla turbines.
I don't understand this argument. Yes, there might be warping but really how much could it be? And I don't see how that couldn't be solved by changing the material of disks to something sturdy like steel. I don't think you would need to create special material specifically for Tesla turbines.
@@atlas_19 Your correct, and tesla didn't have any issues with his turbines. The public only seems to know one test that tesla ever did. Tesla worked over 20 years on his turbine improving it for many applications.
@@atlas_19 'sturdy like steel" cus no one ever thought of maling a rotor out of steel. Your a genius
@@MaYbYl8eR My new rotor is 6" in diameter. With 1/64th inch Spacing. I agree my 3" rotors were much too small for Using only a single stage. Tesla suggests to compound the rotors For smaller turbines. I believe the 6" turbine won't need compounding.
The brilliance of Tesla's turbine is he took one of the problems of a conventional turbine, molecular adhesion on the blades, and made it part of the solution.
This approach of harnessing the problem directly to the solution was a constant in his designs.
in what other design did he do that?
Still don't understand this tbh
@@cnossen86
In a Tesla valve; he used side circuits to create pressure differentials and thus make a one way valve with no moving parts.
The no moving parts is important, as it saves on wear and money for maintenance and spare parts.
@@fasted8468
“Whenever you have fluid rubbing against itself in the walls of a container it creates heat. We can see this in a blender. The energy that you could have turned to useful work gets wasted as heat “
It’s good for smaller scale so can maintain high speeds and if blades warp not as costly and less likely to warp because not as much power
@@anthonyurso3554 that actually makes a little more sense. Instead of AVOIDING adhesion, it uses the adhesion to its advantage
Your correct, everything needs to be tuned properly. That's something I've learned over the years, and I haven't had any issues with warping. My latest turbine uses fiberglass disks, that have an extremely high strength to weight ratio and I don't experience any warping. Also there isn't any issues with torque either. Thanks for making an accurate video about tesla turbines.
Does the torque depend on speed the same way efficiency does? Because if yes, a Tesla turbine would have less torque on start up, and would get stronger as it spools up. So with the right amount of resistance it might keep up the performance at high speed, but stall if it gets too slow. I don't know if traditional turbines behave like this too, but this seems like a setup for a very dangerous feedback loop.
your left
@@pocarski I would share links, Though youtube seems to delete those comments, Though If i read correctly, Tesla Turbines efficiency improves at higher RPM.
They are only "inefficient" due to material's not being strong enough for the load.
I could be misremembering however, So you would need to research this fact on your own.
Video name "Tesla Turbine | The interesting physics behind it"
What do you mean by warping(assuming it's not about SPACE-TIME)?
@@ideasforever4823 It's mean a disc will temporary deform like it's made by a soft gummy if put enough force or make it spin fast enough.
Watch spinning the CD on "The Slow Mo Guys" channel if you wanna see it.
Nikola Tesla was ahead of his time... Great man to learn from
Yep, even in Record of Ragnarok manga he is ahead
Yeah, but some of his more radical ideas based on his poor understanding in some areas has led to a lot of modern day stupidity from people who thought he was flawless.
He's unintentionally the grandfather of many pseudo-science scam artists and hardcore conspiracy theorists.
We live in a weird time
@@MelodicTurtleMetal dont blame a hero for modern day idiots
In what was was he "ahead of his time"? For me he was a result of the time he lived in, a time where there was many ideas going around but few asked if they were practical or functional, this was the time when the "Hyperloop" or "Vactrain" was invented (1904), a idea that is physically impossible due to physics but they still did try to sell for around 20 years.
Say any invention that Tesla made that was before in time and that we could use today to improve something.
Except maybe romance, since he was in love with a pigeon.
The good thing about Tesla turbine is its efficiency is 97% but it has low volume density. Means, at same power load, it requires a huge volume. In industry, a lower efficiency but compact size is preferred.
When load applied ...disk wont rotate and high pressure forms and break whole thing
@@freespeech515 nah, you have to slowly get it up to speed
@@NwoDispatcher Yes! I have seen this in Jeremia's recent releases. What do you make of it?
I can only intuit that a thermodynamic process in which "kinetic" (both mass flow 0.5mv^2 and thermal (latent heat) energy is converted to rotational torque inside the turbine as a result of some kind of phase change and at some point this becomes self-sustaining, mass flow increases and the "resonant" pickup of energy takes place. Does this make sense or not? I have seen it happen, and I trust Jeremia is not fooling us.
I am also inclined to ask if we need to go to the trouble of a cryopherous containing hot water in the first place? If instead a refrigerant like Butane were used, then at 2 atmospheres it is boiling at 25'C. A BPHE acting as an evaporator warrants pumping the warm water around under ambient pressure conditions without mixing it with our heat carrying fluid. This refrigerant can be optimised for the temperature gradients experienced. In contrast, flowing the heat storage medium itself through the turbine will always mean introducing dissolved O2 and N2 into the condenser, and that effectively is a dilution or contamination of the energy density (enthalpy density?) within the turbine.
In practical terms I think the spin-up might be accomplished by any number of means (using compressed air, gas, the alternator during powered up) or by "cheating" approaches in which external energy is applied before the "heat extraction" phase of conversion. And we need T and P and flow rate sensors all over the system giving state information as loads are applied.
And some handle on a "closed cycle" rather than "open cycle" cryopherous, and an answer to "What becomes of the heat that the turbine does not convert to mechanical power?"
If have seen this written as:
Heat (Entropy) in Mass Entering Turbine = H1
Heat (Entropy) in Mass Leaving Turbine = H2
Turbine Efficiency (Proportion of H1 converted to turbine shaft power) = X
Generation Efficiency = Y
(and I am sorry but I have lost the will to write temporarily)
H1-H2 = H1 x X
H2 = H1 x (1-X)
My point is the heat in the mass leaving the turbine is not necessarily wasted to the environment (something Charlie Solis is rightly banging on about), it can be used or re-circulated back to the hot side. Likewise there is potential for recovery of utility from the cold side of this process.
@@simonmasters3295 i think the turbine works better if it's also designed as a heavy flywheel as well, and heating up the gas as it nears the central exhaust hole it pressurizes further
One of the other things that limits their adoption now is that with computational fluid dynamics (CFD) traditional turbines can be designed to be hyper optimized for their use cases, in some ways taking advantage of the very principles the tesla turbine exclusively operates on. A great example is the modern steam turbines that are installed into thermal power plants. they almost look like a hybrid of the tesla turbine and a standard jet engine compressor.
modern steam turbines are heat engines (Carnot engines) and follow the same rules.
CFD is NOT an issue for Tesla turbines.. where do people come up with these stories… 🤭
@@testurenergyhay! derpy duuurrr, not what was said. Modern turbines are designed using CFD, part of what they do is take advantage of the no slip boundary conditions through computational optimization of the design. Effectively they make a traditional design use many of the advantages a tesla turbine provides while having an optimal performance range for the application and still conform to a more traditional turbine layout.
@@MorRobots no they do not. They are not using a fluids viscosity and adhesion to provide more torque. They optimize flow to reduce boundary layer drag losses and turbulent losses.
that is not the same thing. Not by a long shot.
And keep your ad hominems to your self, nobody wants to hear your half assed attempt to make fun of someone on the internet. Address what I said or don’t say it at all.
@@MorRobots you verbatim said that “one of the limits of Tesla turbines is that CFD can optimize other turbines best case so it wouldn’t be worth doing a Tesla.”
🤭
That’s not a limit for the Tesla turbine. CFD is not directly nor indirectly an issue for the Tesla turbine.
Which is what I said.
Like how ridiculous to say that because cfd can make other turbines really good it’s a limit for the Tesla turbine 🤭
There are MANY operating conditions that no other turbine can even operate in for more than a few minutes that wouldn’t even bother a Tesla turbine.
Wet steam for example destroys multi million dollar steam turbines in minutes, wearing the Blades down to little nubbins from cavitation.
Not an issue for the Tesla turbine.
Exactly how does computational fluid dynamics optimizing the flow cavities of other turbines somehow limit the Tesla turbine from being able to outperform for longer stress conditions than any other turbine?
Cfd doesn’t even account for stress testing or for that matter erosion.
The only one limiting the Tesla turbine is people who keep saying it’s a limited machine 🤭
I would like to add a minor correction , sort of, we do use tesla turbines but as pumps , they are commonly used in industry for fluid pumps of volatile fluids like oil. great video overall though.
I think you mean viscous fluids, not volatile.
Irrelevant of the viscosity of the fluid, ALL FLUIDS, liquids and gases, can be forced to flow in highly efficient low Reynolds number laminar flow regimes given the right initial conditions and “flow cavity” parameters, such that turbulent boundary layer slip is eliminated, stream separation and counterflow is eliminated, rapid pressure changes from turbulence resulting in noise losses that can lead to early fatigue on discs and parts is eliminated, etc.
Tesla turbines get PLENTY OF TORQUE. You just have to know how to design them.
“Owing to a number of causes affecting the performance, it is difficult to frame a precise rule which would be generally applicable, but it may be stated that within certain limits, and other conditions being the same, the torque is directly proportionate to the square of the velocity of the fluid relatively to the runner and to the effective area of the disks and, inversely, to the distance separating them. The machine will, generally, perform its maximum work when the effective speed of the runner is one-half of that of the fluid; but to attain the highest economy, the relative speed or slip, for any given performance, should be as small as possible. This condition may be to any desired degree approximated by increasing the active area of and reducing the space between the disks.”
-Nikola Tesla
@@CharlieSolis dude your TesTurs that you make are AWESOME!! how does no one know about your work?!?
You actually make real working Tesla turbines but yet all up and down this comments sections people are DEMANDING what you have already proven possible “can’t be done!” 🤣
For real what was your peak power and torque output on your last TesTur dyno test?
It was peak 6kW at 7000rpm and 6.22ft-lbs of torque at only 4200rpm right?!
On just compressed air too?
No heat or anything?!
@@teenagemutantninjaraver2224 ❤🙏 if only I could get the viewer reach as this big channels… apparently no one wants to Tesla turbines that actually work.
They just want to be fed the same erroneous tidbits they were told about Tesla turbines not working that they heard in the last 2 Tesla turbine videos they’ve watched while they edge out going through the comments parroting the same “tHe tEsLa TuRbInE hAs To bE sPuN tO fAsT tO wOrK… blah blah blah…”
Apparently the it’s better for views to post “controversy” vs scientific progress… 🤷♂️
@@teenagemutantninjaraver2224 for the air to flow, there must a pressure difference. that means the compressed air being input leaves as a low pressure high volume air.
Thanks for all your videos. I love how you explain things in a simplistic way.
Actually in a simple way. Simplistic has a slightly different meaning.
@@teeanahera8949 you must be great fun at a party
Over simplified actually..
He explains it correctly but not very well..
@@feralpanda5084 No, he has a point tbh
@@simonmasters3295 nO, hE HaS a PoiNt TBh 🙄
In the wine industry, I was amazed to see a Tesla turbine used as a wine pump. This was in 2008 at Frey Winery (Redwood Valley, California.) The Frey family are MIT level geniuses who are happy just making wine.
They were using Tesla turbines as reversible wine pumps long before the Internet got fascinated with them -- and have been using the design in a practical manner for decades.
Is this because wine can "bruise"?
The Frey family sound like wonderful people.
@@879PC Just don't invite Walder to your wedding.
Tesla turbine or pumps are not reversible, it is peaked at around 50% to 60%. Because it uses boundary layers, that is main reason of aerodynamic drag and efficiency losses. Hydrodynamic turbines and pumps can achieve 90% efficiency, but complex geometry.
@@murat9268 When you can type in complete and coherent sentences, it might be worth replying to your thoughts. Until then, I can assure you (having used them myself on $1k/gal+ wine) that Tesla pumps *are* reversible.
Be Well, Friend.
A key feature that was not emphasized was the path of the gas. The gas moving at the outer circumference of the disk will rotate the disk at aproximately its same velocity. But as the gas spirals inwardly before exiting, the radius and circumference of the disk are shorter, causing the disk to spin faster. I suggest that the overall rotation is some function of the gas velocity, the entrance radius and the exit radius.
Probably cancels out down to initial velcity of the gas. Less radius in center but also less torque. Lever arm rule is proportional to distance/force.
So what you're saying is that it works like every other centrifugal reaction turbine?
Could it also be that the gas is literally fighting against the centrifugal forces of the spinning vanes by exiting at the center? On a traditional vaned turbine the power medium (air or steam, etc.) enters and exits each wheel at roughly the same points in of the circumference. In steam turbines, when the steam exits the final stage it is still steam but at a high level of vacuum, but on a Tesla turbine the power medium has to work its way inward from the outer edge towards the center against the force of the spinning wheel which requires additional pressure to overcome. This sounds like it could be a loss of efficiency to me.
@@Jon651 i think thats what speeds it up, high rpm but low torque because close to axis. The air speed that enters doesnt suffer much loss of speed i think because of the cusion air itself provides. Like an air clutch i think i imagine it that way.
@Jon651
somewhat contradicting right?
but there are still a lot to research about that i guess,
its always " when you gain some on the other part you lose on the opposite part " thing i think
2:04 "laminar flow"
Destin pops his head around the corner and says "whoo!"
We do use teslaturbines where ever there is a highly viscous fluid that needs to be driving a turbine! We do this all the time. Would use it for less viscous fluids/gases like water or air IF it would be possible to run big Teslaturbine disks of a few meters in diameter on several 10k or 30k rpm....yet there is no material out there today that can survive these stresses.
Charlie solis makes actual working, real power and torque outputting, even at low rpm, Tesla turbines that run on room temp compressed air.
+4.25kW at only 6000-8000rpm and a peak torque of 6.22ft lbs.❤
You just have to know how to properly design them to actually work by reducing slip not chasing high RPMs like everyone erroneously claims needs to be done.
Tesla turbines work just fine with all fluids. Because irrelevant of the viscosity of the fluid, ALL FLUIDS, liquids and gases, can be forced to flow in highly efficient low Reynolds number laminar flow regimes given the right initial conditions and “flow cavity” parameters, such that turbulent boundary layer slip is eliminated, stream separation and counterflow is eliminated, rapid pressure changes from turbulence resulting in noise losses that can lead to early fatigue on discs and parts is eliminated, etc.
Naviar stokes equations explain how all fluids, liquids and gasses, all flow the same.
In the explanation you missed one of the coolest aspects of the Tesla turbine. He uses the principle of conservation of angular momentum and it kind of self induction Loop a bit the way Tesla coil uses the voltage gain earlier in the coil to create a step up later in the coil which creates a voltage draw that increases the voltage earlier in the coil in a runaway self-amplification of voltage. In particular, any unit massive fluid towards the outside of the turbine has to increase its angular velocity as it approaches the center to conserve angular momentum, as it increases its angular velocity the speed differential between the center of the turbine and the fluid is increased driving the center harder causing the the turbine to rotate faster which in turn accelerates the fluid at the edge of the turbine so that it gains angular momentum, which start the cycle all over again. It's a self-inducing system that maximizes the frictional transfer between the fluid and the disc. The fundamental problem that I see with the design is that as it spins faster to keep the liquid moving in a circle you need higher and higher centripetal force which creates a high pressure around the edges, putting a lot of friction and pressure on any seal you have between the disc and the stationary housing
FREE ENERGY! TRUE FREE ENERGY! Siphon liquids UP by putting a bottle above water/liquid source, have a siphon tube go from water/liquid source to top of a sealed container. on the bottom of container put a spout so water can flow back into the source. the water coming out of spout will create suction in the container pulling water up the siphon tube! it will continue to flow until water evaporates unless you build it in an enclosure or use ionic liquid. with water flowing constantly you can use the tesla turbine or any hydro-generator to give you free energy for everyone in the world! Thank you tesla for free energy for the world!
This is the technology used in the DISCFLO centrifugal pump. Great idea, great solution for many pumping applications. The downside is that the money you save in maintenance is eaten up by the electricity required to move the pumped fluid.
If you need a fish ladder next to a hydroelectric dam, this pump can actually pump fish without harming them!
I've seen that
Seems like the rotation would create huge g-forces, no?
We actually did the Tesla turbine as our project yet got rejected and this was mostly cuz of lecturers having no idea of it's working and they think getting 3.2 k rpm is an easy task using a inexpensive air blower and a bunch of DVD discs
"We" combined with "my project" in school means you cheated and therefore a rejection is warranted......
@@DreadX10 big, rude assumption there.
The air blower already has 1 energy conversion. Converting that back to rotational energy is pointless
@@MattH-wg7ou No, OP literally said it and then changed his comment after my reply....
@@jobkurienjoseph yeah but this was just for a demonstrational purpose we had diffrent application that it could be used for,we had to demonstrate our model in a class room
Imagine 100 years of using tesla turbines, with constant updates and improvements...
Imagine wheel invented 10000 years ago with constant improvements... Oh wait, it been same in wild west recently. And even now it is just a wheel. But yes, with rubber covering to protect roads.
@@D9ID9I Wheel went from compression based (axle leans on the spokes) to suspension based (axle hangs of the spokes). Yes, the wheel got re-invented.
@@M0t0Daddy lol. Did you deduce that from his 'creative' poetic license on the use of grammar?
ikr still waiting for chess v1.1
@@DreadX10 That's suspension getting optimized, the wheel itself is fundamentally still a cylinder slice that rolls along a surface fixed through a center pivot. See WhistlinDiesel's "Buggy Wheels on a Hellcat" for a practical demonstration of wheels intended for straight axles being attached to articulated suspension.
The big problem I see with them is that they look very sensitive to vibrations. Even a small feedback loop or stray vibration could cause the disks to rub against each other in a scaled up model.
That's way Tesla recommend to also use his dynamic balance machine before putting the whole thing together
The disks are keyed to each other, and the contact is resisted by the pressure. The damage from that is insignificant, and insignificant even if you are pumping sludge through the system.
Nikola Tesla patented an improved disc stack patent GB 186,082 in 1921, 10 years after the original and a decade of R&D. Vibration is not an issue when built correctly.
“In the new design I employ two heavier end-plates which are machined tapering toward the periphery for the purpose of reducing the maximum centrifugal stress as much as practicable. The inside discs, of relatively thin material, are rolled, forged or ground tapering in like manner and with the same object in view, but this may not always be necessary and plates, made of sheet metal of substantially uniform thickness as furnished by the mills, can be employed. Each of the thick as well as thin plates is provided with exhaust openings, leaving a solid central portion like the hub and spokes of a wheel. Star-washers of similar configuration serve the purpose of keeping the discs apart in the center and for the peripheral spacing the thin plates have small holes drilled in them on a circle, or circles, of suitable diameter, and in these are driven tight-fitting studs which are upset at both ends by a special tool so that they will project beyond the metal on each side a trifle more than the thickness of the star-washers. When the plates are put together the separating studs do not come in line but are straddled in order to give opportunity for slight yielding, thereby eliminating constructional difficulties which might be caused by unevenness or other mechanical imperfections. Thus the rotor can be finished closely to predetermined overall dimensions and will run true on the outside even if the thin inside plates should vary a little in thickness or be slightly warped. To simplify this arrangement I provide only every second plate with studs, using plain ones between. Furthermore, with the object of cheapening the manufacture I dispense altogether with the former, accomplishing the spacing by means of small bosses or protuberances which are raised in the plates by blows or pressure and provide a die, practically reducing all the machine work on a thin plate to a single operation in a stamping press. The star-washers, while preferable, are not indispensable and may be replaced by round separating washers of a diameter about equal to that of the hub part of the discs.”
-Nikola Tesla
“This construction permits free expansion and contraction of each plate individually under the varying influence of heat and centrifugal force and possesses a number of other advantages which are of considerable practical moment. A larger active plate area and consequently more power is obtained for a given width, this improving efficiency. Warping is virtually eliminated and smaller side clearances may be used which results in diminished leakage and friction losses. The rotor is better adapted for dynamic balancing and through rubbing friction resists disturbing influences thereby insuring quieter running. For this reason and also because the discs are not rigidly joined it is safer against damage which might otherwise be caused by vibration or excessive speed.”
-Nikola Tesla
The real problem is if you allow the disks to spin at maximum RPM they will spin until they explode. No material exists that can sustain the level of momentum. It is an extremely efficient design but it is not without its flaws. The larger they get the bigger the issue.
@@rekrn12345 I mean the same limitations technically apply for regular turbine systems as well. If a turbine engine spins too fast, it can melt or explode just as easily.
Funny you should show a Blendtech Blender. In one of my first jobs out of uni, I had to investigate why these blenders various programmed modes weren't running for the expected time when used in Australia. Long story short, the firmware incorporated the AC supply frequency in their timing calculations and it had been hard coded to 60Hz. While doing some MTBF testing on them, I found when used repeatedly, with little break inbetween cycles, the metal blades were conducting heat from the motor into the jug, boiling the liquid medium inside. Will it blend? Sure. It can cook too!
That was excellent. I finally fully understand the Tesla turbine
masterful. super simplified. thanks
Keep making awesome science videos man!
Dio sama
@@Kill_peter hmmmm mortal?
Mortal Kombat! *the song track plays*
@@davidabdollahi7906 get over here
you can't post anything on the internet without getting swarmed by people desperately trying to convince you otherwise. no matter what it is, if you post something on the internet, you're categorical and entirely wrong.
That's a myth. The video everyone learned that from is from lesics Channel, their video about the tesla turbine. They made a big mistake calculating the speed of a turibne. The video says the rotor must spin at a very high rpm, maybe 50,000 for a 6” turbine. The speed of a turbine is based on periphery speed not rpm. If a 6” turbine needs to spin 50,000 rpm to be efficient like the video says, that’s a periphery speed of 890.1 Miles per hour. If you want a 3 meter disk to achieve close to 891 miles per hour at the periphery, the rpm required is only 7,253. We have materials that can easily reach that speed.
The stress on the disks is only related to tangential velocity at the edge of the disks. So no, making it bigger doesn’t relieve stress; it just shifts you away from higher rmp. That being sad we do have materials able to do both reasonably well, just wanted to throw that in there that the rpm isn’t really your issue and making larger disks with slower rpm doesn’t fix the stress on the disks.
@@iEnergySupply what is the efficiency of that disc?
Normal turbines efficiencies are above 90%, there is a reason we do not use Tesla turbines, Engineers are quite clever, and would have solved most issues at scale, if it were a simple problem.
The main problem was how quickly it became outdated. More modern turbines quickly became much more efficient. At the time the efficiencies of the Tesla turbine were unreliable, and not hugely better at peak performance to be worthwhile to change current existing equipment.
It also lost efficiency when put under too high a load, so it couldn't be pushed if required (eventually energy gets lost to sheering)
It was ahead of it time in some ways, but not far enough ahead or reliable enough to be adopted.
The fair guesses: #1 they are ridiculously easy to make from "garbage" like old CDs and all you need to do is figure out how to convert the torque/spin to "power" something. #2 There's still research going on in the field so the idea isn't dead just isn't going to replace anything say gas powered right now. #3 There's a whole bunch of quantum physics not mentioned here but perhaps there's EMF or quantum things going on around those turbines. (I'm sure going to make a CD/pencil one now though out of Friends season 3 DVDs)
Built one some years ago from old computer hard disc drives.
Stripped the platters from the drives, drilled central air exit holes close to their centers and stacked them (6 off) back in one of the drives with 0.5mm spacing between each platter. Used plastibond to shape the interior of the drive casing to have very small clearances between the disc outer edges and the casing and the outer faces of the disk stack.
Used a 1.2mm mig welder tip as a air nozzle. Ran of 120psi air compressor.
Sounded like a jet engine spooling up, measured rpm at 22000rpm.
One problem tesla had was the turbine was capable of running at such high rpm that the disk materials of the day couldn't cope with the loads.
I ran mine from a safe distance.
Don't run it at such high rpm, or don't run it with no load?
Thank heaven someone explained how the Tesla turbine interacts with air. Thank you.
The main factor in why we don’t use Tesla turbines is that material science hadn’t reached a point that allowed for discs to spin at such high RPM without self-destruction. 👍🏼 Enjoy your videos.
yup bro is a genius
I hope someone actually makes a tesla turbine jet engine one day, it could be the future of flying planes & to generate electricity.
🙋♂️ already doing that… 🤭 Replication of Tesla’s improved combustion + steam turbine patent GB 186,083 that he patented in 1921, 10 years after the original and a decade of R&D.
Already getting real power and torque out with the TesTur on just the preliminary room temp compressed air.
4.25kW between only 6000-8000rpm and peak torque of 6.22ft-Lbs of torque at only 4150rpm again on room temp compressed air that never got over 40psi at the nozzle.
Even shown proof of powering real up to 2650 watt electrical loads at only 9500rpm and and never using more than 20 psi at the nozzle 🤭
Add on the bacon bits of gasses increase in viscosity with temp, they get thicker when they get hotter and thinner/runnier when they get colder, the opposites of most liquids. This increase in viscosity as temps are raised to combustion temps reduces slip on the discs ultimately increasing the isentropic efficiency of the TesTur in addition to the increased thermodynamic efficiency efficiency from using increased temps.
Yeah Charlie’s work is phenomenal! I don’t know how all these people in the comments are DEMANDING Tesla turbines can’t work when Charlie already has working proof that they get plenty of torque and power even at low RPMs 🤭
Thanks. Great explanation
Very lucidly explained. 👍
Charlie Solis is definitely going to be disappointed with this video when he has Tesla Turbines that actually work 😮💨
If you don’t know, now you know.
I think the maker of this video wil be more disappointed when he sees Charlie's turbine running XD
Thank you! 🙏❤️
I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into my TesTur builds to barely have anyone even see it if I’m lucky and then to find a video like this blow up to over 100K views in less than 24 hours when it makes all sorts of erroneous claims about the TesTur… 😮💨
Always excited to learn new things from you! Great channel!
I'm curious about cavitation, they work for heaters, instant steam generators. But ive read somewhere that it also helps with aerodynamics.
A vehical with golfball size indents spaced an inch apart all over the car will supposedly more aerodynamic because it's ability to resist air friction by using its own cavitational eddy throughout the entire surface. Thus allowing air to flow against air with the boundry of that cavitation air/sound?..
Theoretically speaking it will only show larger improvements upon higher speeds. Research is hard to find on this subject matter, I'd test it myself if i had time and $. Thank you for your video content, i enjoy it very much!
Gas flow does not cavitate. Golf balls do not use cavitation.
That appears to be a Fitz I-X-L Steel Overshoot Waterwheel a few seconds in. It also appears to have faulty feedstock. A properly designed, constructed, and operated overshot/overshoot is very efficient - 88% to 97% energy conversion.
The only question I have for you is which one would you personally prefer to use in your own turbines if you had them?
The explanation in the last few seconds for why they aren't used amounts to, "Eh, we just don't do it that way."
The reality is more like: "No materials known to man can actually do this at the scale needed to produce meaningful power."
@@OutsiderLabs see Charlie Solis. Manufacturing is cheap, he uses fiber glass. Don't make it big, use gas, increase surface area.
@@Dan-gs3kg thanks you! I don’t know how so many people can make these claims that TesTurs don’t work when I’ve more than proven they not only work but get plenty of torque at even low RPMs.
@@OutsiderLabs the reality is Tesla turbines aren’t supposed to be spun fast when used as a turbine. Only when they are used as a pump/compressor are they supposed to be spun fast because ALL centrifugal pumps’/compressors’ performance is tip speed dependent.
“I have found that the quantity of fluid propelled in this manner, is, other conditions being equal, approximately proportionate to the active surface of the runner and to its effective speed. For this reason, the performance of such machines augments at an exceedingly high rate with the increase of their size and speed of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
Spinning too fast just counters the incoming fluid flow because of the centrifugal head. Never mind the fact that the real turbines efficiency is increased by reducing slip, not increasing the rpm.
“Owing to a number of causes affecting the performance, it is difficult to frame a precise rule which would be generally applicable, but it may be stated that within certain limits, and other conditions being the same, the torque is directly proportionate to the square of the velocity of the fluid relatively to the runner and to the effective area of the disks and, inversely, to the distance separating them. The machine will, generally, perform its maximum work when the effective speed of the runner is one-half of that of the fluid; but to attain the highest economy, the relative speed or slip, for any given performance, should be as small as possible. This condition may be to any desired degree approximated by increasing the active area of and reducing the space between the disks.”
-Nikola Tesla
“Still another valuable and probably unique quality of such motors or prime movers may be described. By proper construction and observance of working conditions the centrifugal pressure, opposing the passage of the fluid, may, as already indicated, be made nearly equal to the pressure of supply when the machine is running idle. If the inlet section be large, small changes in the speed of revolution will produce great differences in flow which are further enhanced by the concomitant variations in the length of the spiral path. A self-regulating machine is thus obtained bearing a striking resemblance to a direct-current electric motor in this respect that, with great differences of impressed pressure in a wide open channel the flow of the fluid through the same is prevented by virtue of rotation. Since the centrifugal head increases as the square of the revolutions, or even more rapidly, and with modern high grade steel great peripheral velocities are practicable, it is possible to attain that condition in a single stage machine, more readily if the runner be of large diameter. Obviously this problem is facilitated by compounding, as will be understood by those skilled in the art. Irrespective of its bearing on economy, this tendency which is, to a degree, common to motors of the above description, is of special advantage in the operation of large units, as it affords a safeguard against running away and destruction. Besides these, such a prime mover possesses many other advantages, both constructive and operative. It is simple, light and compact, subject to but little wear, cheap and exceptionally easy to manufacture as small clearances and accurate milling work are not essential to good performance. In operation it is reliable, there being no valves, sliding contacts or troublesome vanes. It is almost free of windage, largely independent of nozzle efficiency and suitable for high as well as for low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution”
-Nikola Tesla
…suitable for high as well as low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution…”
@@CharlieSolis I saw the video with the fast start up, and know the tyrants that hydromechanical drives are.
That's the best explanation I've heard on what problems they face and why they aren't used in industry.
Boss your a Fun Educator. Keep'em Thinking and Exploring, Good Stuff. 🤝
There has to be some market and adoption of Tesla turbines. Was there any research on this point before publishing the vid? I’m curious. I would like to know some examples of where they’re used, when they were updated from earlier turbines, etc.
I build real actual working TesTurs that output actual power and torque even at low RPMs. Half the claims in this video are downright false.
It would seem almost no research was done, and it would seem the patent wasn’t even read because the erroneous claim that the TesTur has to spin fast to work just gets parroted over and over and nowhere in the patent does it even say that.
The only time it’s supposed to spin fast is when used as a pump/compressor because ALL centrifugal pumps/compressors performance is too speed dependent.
“I have found that the quantity of fluid propelled in this manner, is, other conditions being equal, approximately proportionate to the active surface of the runner and to its effective speed. For this reason, the performance of such machines augments at an exceedingly high rate with the increase of their size and speed of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
But when run as a turbine and spun to fast the centrifugal head will counter the incoming fluid flow, reduing the pressure gradient across the nozzle, reducing the fluids final velocity after the nozzle, reducing the mass flow rate through the nozzle and ultimately reducing power.
Spinning fast only has a slight increase in efficiency but at the cost of power.
Again even Tesla himself knew they weren’t supposed to spin fast and even says they work great at high and low fluid speeds and speeds of revolution.
“Still another valuable and probably unique quality of such motors or prime movers may be described. By proper construction and observance of working conditions the centrifugal pressure, opposing the passage of the fluid, may, as already indicated, be made nearly equal to the pressure of supply when the machine is running idle. If the inlet section be large, small changes in the speed of revolution will produce great differences in flow which are further enhanced by the concomitant variations in the length of the spiral path. A self-regulating machine is thus obtained bearing a striking resemblance to a direct-current electric motor in this respect that, with great differences of impressed pressure in a wide open channel the flow of the fluid through the same is prevented by virtue of rotation. Since the centrifugal head increases as the square of the revolutions, or even more rapidly, and with modern high grade steel great peripheral velocities are practicable, it is possible to attain that condition in a single stage machine, more readily if the runner be of large diameter. Obviously this problem is facilitated by compounding, as will be understood by those skilled in the art. Irrespective of its bearing on economy, this tendency which is, to a degree, common to motors of the above description, is of special advantage in the operation of large units, as it affords a safeguard against running away and destruction. Besides these, such a prime mover possesses many other advantages, both constructive and operative. It is simple, light and compact, subject to but little wear, cheap and exceptionally easy to manufacture as small clearances and accurate milling work are not essential to good performance. In operation it is reliable, there being no valves, sliding contacts or troublesome vanes. It is almost free of windage, largely independent of nozzle efficiency and suitable for high as well as for low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
Modern TesTurs have been shown to get over 80% efficiency….
“Design and Development of a Small-Capacity Tesla Turbine for Rural Applications
Bangladesh is in great need to find renewable energy sources for its fast-developing industrial sectors. The main objectives of this research are to design and fabricate a small-scale efficient Tesla Turbine for remote areas and test it through experimental investigations. Performance analysis of the newly designed Tesla Turbine suitable for remote areas of Bangladesh will be conducted. Until now, a number of researchers have undertaken several tests and studies to evaluate the Tesla turbine's performance and efficiency. Tesla Turbine does not proficient in producing torque. The work here consists of computational analysis and an experimental campaign by fabricating the turbine. Solid Edge 2021 is employed for our 3D modeling. For modeling, the desired material is Polylactic Acid (PLA) or ABS Plastic. The proposed design consists of 51 disks with an identical spacing of 3 mm. This design has led to achieving a torque of 19.85 N-m and a staggering efficiency of 81%. It was found that stress generated on the disk edges is higher than their centre due to high centrifugal force.”
@@CharlieSolis keep up the amazing work! You’re going to change lives!!
@@CharlieSolis Dude stop spamming your crap on all your alt accounts. It's pathetic.
@@-Devy- 🤭 ok bud. Keep telling yourself that. I’ll be over here making actual working Tesla turbines ✌️
Jealousy doesn’t look good on you.
What happens to the efficiency when you put a load on the shaft, like a generator?
He addressed this in the video
It rotates
@@hypercrack7440 the efficiency rotates? I would like to see that!
Why not actually watch the video as he addressed this very point?
it gets as efficient as usual turbines
I love these videos. You and integza are the best. Do it again but keep the same width discs and give them a much greater diameter. And to avoid losses when a load is applied use a flywheel maybe! Please!
Thank you! You could have measured air temperature at various places to show that there is little warming.
Not to mention that we already have hydro generators that are over 90% efficient today.
I built a tracking, concentrating solar collector, which makes steam and I run that against a brass gear on a good bearing with a generator at the other end. Couldn't be simpler. Works like a champ.
The thing I love about this invention is it is soooo tesla. The ability to have the turbine work in reverse is something he made use of in his electric devices. He looked at the water and was like, "you're gonna pretend to be electricity.;" and water being water, it didn't disagree...
This was very interesting. Thank you for posting this.
Can I just say, your videos, are great.
Except for everything they got wrong in this…
"The past might be there's but the future is mine"
-nikola tesla
Does porting the turbine plates in the middle, and subsequently creating the mentioned spiral path, then create a situation where the outer edges of the plates are moving faster than the middle, preventing your turbine from ever achieving this laminar flow you described? It seems like it would be impossible to stabilize the fluid speed versus a gradient of speeds across the width of the plates.
This was really interesting thank you!
How can turbines have 35% loss if pumped storage hydroelectricity has a full-cycle efficiency of 70 to 80% and even higher ?
Great question!
My suspicion is the 80% figure is simply a lie. Pumped hydro isn’t used because of its efficiency so nobody cares.
Do more Tesla stuff!
Could you do a video about battery technology?
Did this with tuned magnetic disks.
Didn't get warping or wobble at 45cm on the edges.
Machining was a nightmare, and we had a really boring teacher so I lost interest in project.
But the disks did work.
Can they be made more efficient for a fixed load (for example charging a battery with constant current)?
Charging a battery?
You want to power a device to power a device?
Or are you planning to use a non-electrical source?
@@MelodicTurtleMetal yea they absolutely can. Despite what everyone erroneously claims about the Tesla turbine they get plenty of torque even at low RPMs. You just have to actually know how to design them.
@@CharlieSolis ... I'm trying to understand the possible use case where using one of these to charge a battery would be feasible at a constant current.
@@MelodicTurtleMetal definitely possible. The TesTur I’ve got spinning right now just Dyno’d in at +4.25kW between only 6000-8000rpm and peak torque of 6.22 ft-lbs at only 4150rpm 😈 on just room temp compressed air that never got over 40 psi at the nozzle.
Did up to 2650 watt tests of real electrical loads with a 200 gal tank of compressed air stored at 150psi regulated/throttled to the nozzle pressure and dumped until it couldn’t keep going. The 250watt run kept going until the tanks fell below 35 psi, and that trend went up to the 2650 watt run that stopped being powered when the tank dropped below 95 psi in the tank.
But yeah these were just compressed air tests. And compressed air is, for the most part, a collection of non polar molecules (O2, N2, CO2, etc) that don’t adhere well to metallic discs, or at least not as well as H2O steam does being a fairly polar molecule which has a much higher adherence to the disc faces. (Think “wetting angle”, also hydroPHILLIC surface coatings can further increase H2O adhesion, and on the other end hydrophobic coatings should increase non polar molecule adhesion. Essentially the right additional surfactants should increase adhesion.)
Ultimately this increased adhesion force increases the isentropic efficiency of the turbine from the increased boundary layer thickness.
Also there will be higher temp gasses. Which if you’re not familiar, gasses have a viscosity trend with temp that’s the opposite of liquids, they get thicker as they get hotter and thinner/ runnier as they get colder.
So the further increase in viscosity, cohesion forces, due to the increase in temp results in reduced slip on the disc, which further increases the isentropic efficiency in addition to the thermodynamic efficiency increase from having increased fluid temps.
@@CharlieSolis my point is more about - how would you power this device with a stable flow without using a powered source.
Charging a battery from one of these is useless if your putting more energy into powering the device to power the device.
Intresting video 👍 I would just like to point out that modern water turbines have efficiencies in the region of 95 to 98% as you have show a water turbine at the start. For gas turbines this might be signifficantly lower.
And for wind turbines its way lower becouse the operate in a completely differnt way by exploiting lift generated by the air flowing along the wings similar to aircraft wings and the edficiency is low because they can't cover large areas because of interferences between the wings.
What if you used the steam pressure to displacement pump water through a water turbine? could you get higher efficiency that way?
@@arkatub the thing is you also need a flow and not only ressure from the gas and I'm not shure but I would guess gas turbines have a efficiency only slightly lower mening a few percent less than water turbines (which is significant but not necessarily compensates for any device conveting the gas pressure somehow into a high pressure water flow).
@@arkatub How would that work? How do you get water between the boiler and the turbine?
@@pxlcowpxl6166 I already realize it's a stupid idea, you would just use steam to push down water in a cylinder, and use 2 cylinders in tandem to get continous flow, but again it's a dumb idea.
I'm currently eyeballing a stack of old hard drive platters on the desk thinking that they don't have much in the way of small imperfections. (starts to giggle)
For large scale industrial applications material strength becomes an issue as the discs are unable to be prevented from warping. Though they work well in smaller applications.
It seems these may be beneficial if used simply for storing energy with mechanisms to ensure the load is constant and the flow-rate:RPM is managed properly.
Definitely may even get more broad applications way into the future when specialized materials may be more common and/or less expensive.
But who knows!?!?
I love this channel. I learn a bunch of stuff.
Tesla was indeed way ahead of its time.
You science crazy and I love it!!
So, I just read an article about reversing the charge on a rusty battery takes the rust off? I'd love to see a demonstration of this on your channel!
"hey everyone, today we are going to test a thing that works to see if it works"
THANK YOU!! 🤭 like for real. I make actual power and torque outputting, even at low rpm, TesTurs and have all the proof in the world that they work and still these big channels riding the coattails of the Tesla turbine fad can’t be bothered to do 10 minutes of homework tk actually see how they are being used. Just use their team of content creators to parrot the same erroneous myths that every other video does which makes it clear that the people who made the videos didn’t even bother to actually read the patents. 🤦♂️
I wonder what the size limit of an efficient tesla turbine is before the centrifugal force would tear it apart.
Also, the effect of the boundary layer is used in viscous couplers. It looks similar to a tesla turbine without the in and outlets.
Very large, but not as large as your mother
Lower the radius, use gas, and increase surface area.
amazing channel. liked subbed, applause and congratulations
A really good explanation of how these work, very easy to understand.
Can this be turned into a pump? Spin the discs to pump air or water out?
I assume it would't work as it is only sppeding up the fluid at as soon as you have any backpressure it wouldnt move any air or other fluid as the adhesion of the fluid to the discs is naturally very low
Yes, it becomes a centrifugal pump.
Theoretically yes and no. The center shaft is spinning which you could hookup to a belt to a second chamber which inside has propeller blades and 2 one way valves for an in an out.
If your asking if the main section of the turbine itself can be... idk. Someone might come up with some design/modification to do that but I havent come across one yet.
don't forget that the material needed to make a 60' diam disc needs to be resistant or immune to blade wobble at high rpm. thats another reason they are not used. the ones built to scale back then destroyed themselves due to high rpm wobble
No they didn't. The first working model exists and only reaches 3,800 RPM tops. Not sure why you'd say they destroyed themselves when they are in perfect working order.
Please shoot me a link to the turbine used.. I didn’t see it in the description
I learned about tesla turbines recently and was wondering why they weren't in use. Thanks for making this video!
They aren't used much as turbines, but it turns out they are used fairly frequently as pumps.
I wonder if this technology could be implemented on a micro-scale, benefiting from diamond-hard components with little weight
The hardness isn't an issue so much as tensile strength.
Harder substances nearly always tend to have less strength, often in a particular plane of direction, and tend to be more brittle despite the hardness.
Interesting to think about the smaller applications of this device though 👍
Hard materials are usually brittle.
Combine that with the Venturi effect 😮
thank you actor James :)
I'm surprised Thomas Edison didn't claim this as his own invention as well.
What invention did Edison claim that was his, that was invented by Tesla? You can look up the patents of both Tesla and Edison. This trend started when Tesla claimed he wasnt paid $10,000 by Edison for helping improve the DC motor while Tesla was employed by Edison. People claim this misinformation all the time, but no one ever says what exact invention Edison stole from Tesla.
From experience I can tell the Tesla turbine can work just fine on Low rpm , I've replicated it from the ideas of (Charlie Solis) he can get from his 10inch turbine a about 5 horse power ! YES HP ! For my 7.5 inch 12 disc turbine whit a spacing of 0,5 mm it delivered 0,5hp at 7000rpm at 1,5 barr of steam pressure,. I really recommend checking Charlie's channel if you want to know how the Tesla turbine really works!
🙏❤️
Q. How fast can a Tesla turbine spin
A........ Very
If you make some modifications you can make it a vortex tube. Try making a video on it, it's functioning is very interesting
It is half of a vortex tube. In the opposite direction it pumps, condenses, and heats.
@@Dan-gs3kg “thermoelectric Tesla Turbine with vortex tube aided cooling”
Would it cause less turbulence if the shaft was hollow and that was used for the exhaust rather than ports on the sides?
with carbon fibre or even carbontanium tuned discs and modern precision CNC processes the efficiency will be so much higher than 65%. i have thought for a while that this needed to be looked at again , Tesla was so far ahead of his era's technology it is unreal.
If you bother to read into all of it, the turbine was inspired by a man named Victor Schauberger.
He always finds something interesting!
The real problem with these was when you get something of that size and scale close to a large car in size and weight spinning at 3500 RPM the structure itself starts to tear itself apart. Same can be seen with CD's if you spin them too fast they will literally just explode. The consensus was we do not have the materials at this time required to efficiently make disks that can withstand the forces.
I have always been curious about a long log shaped Tesla turbine built into a exhaust manifold driving another Tesla turbine as a turbo on a car. I wonder what it would sound like. I'm sure boost wouldn't be incredibly high but it should be near silent compared to a traditional turbo.
Iv actually thought deeply about this.. it makes for a very good compressor not great at moving volume though. On the turbine end I think it could have some real promise as it could move a good volume for it's size and should give a bigger range as it's efficiency goes up with shaft speed a good bit. As the wastegate cracks and the turbine really just needs to hold a rpm and flow as much as possible it would shine pretty hard I think. Imagine having a turbo that came on boost super hard at low rpm and then back pressure just sank like a rock and boost carried to red line. In theory this would be a big game changer but the heat and two step hammering on it would concern me. I am tempted to try a turbine for my drag bike though.. maybe next year when I have some time.
@@oliverscorsim I would think with the extra efficiency you may be able to move the exhaust side farther down the pipe as it would rely less on hot expanding gasses and more on continuous flow. If you keep the diameter of the turbine down you can crank the rpms up and with say a tungsten center shaft for inertia it would maintain rpms between shifts so anti lag may not be necessary. Get it good and spooled up in the wet box and keep it going with a rev every now and then till the tree lights up.
@@jameshathaway5117 that doesn't matter much for turbos in most cases. Rear mount turbos have been around for a good long time. Also inertia is a thing so no reving it and it staying in boost. Also let's take the hx42 in my Volvo the compressor takes about 120hp to turn the turbo at 75,000rpm there's drag from it pumping. Tesla turbines are about the same efficiency as the conventional turbine design most of the time the advantage comes in once it's in boost then efficiency goes up a good bit which would lower back pressure and therefore pumping losses. It would be heavier though so it would spool slower. The biggest limiting factor would be getting the flow out of it. I know my 155cc drag bike is compound turbo these days, but the exduser on the turbine is just under an inch and by 30psi my wastegate on the first turbo is fully open trying to bypass what it can. A similar size Tesla turbine would have an even smaller exit hole if you will. In my case it would be good if once it's in full boost it can move more air at less pressure while still keeping the response. That would make more power and let the wastegate not be all the way open to meet the demands. Potentially great but not in most cases for turbos but it would work very well as a fuel pump since it runs at a constant speed and flow.
Would be cool to see a regular turbine with VARIABLE fins so you can optimize the angle and approach a Tesla turbine approach when the load allows. Would love to see that!
Water turbines of the kind of francis and kaplan turbines regularly have movable parts to increas the efficiency at different flow levels and they achieve efficiencies of 95 to 98%
Tesla turbines get plenty of torque. You just have to know how to design them correctly.
@@CharlieSolis for real though you would know too! The TesTurs that you make are beautiful! And they actually work!
Power and torque even at low RPMs and even with just room temp compressed air! 🤣
I love how everyone demands Tesla turbines “don’t work/get no torque/have to be spun too fast…blah blah blah…” when you literally have all the proof anyone could need to prove they work astoundingly!
Porsche introduced variable turbine fins on their 911 twin turbo cars around 2007. They called it Variable Turbine Geometry.
@@alangil40 yeah the variable geometry “nozzles” in those turbines are cool. The mechanism for the adjustable vanes is super simple.
Although the pivot in them is the wear point over long operating lifespans.
Thankyou for your recognition of Nikola Tesla. Truly we would be without the electronic prosperity we have today without him
Keep it up, thanks :)
I've always thought it would be easy to take excess solar power, use thst to compress air and release thst air later to generate electricity. This seems like a very easy way to DIY that into reality. Now I just need a massive compressed air tank and a compressor, thankyou action lab for putting the last piece of the puzzle together for me!!
But that will be inefficient and it would have a lot of energy loss in the process
@@aniketmandal8786 also meant to say, “But an interesting idea nonetheless. Keep on using that brain of yours!!!”
Why use compressed air when you can pump water to the elevated container?
@@aniketmandal8786 Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES) and Liquid Air Energy Storage (LAES) systems are a 100% competitive and viable option even with almost no compressed air engines on the market getting better than ~50% efficiency… most only getting 5-20% efficient.
Air compression for storage can be very efficient if you just recoup the thermal energy during expansion.
@@CharlieSolis ahhh the TesTurs that you make are amazing! Keep up the great work!
Everyone up and down these comments are demanding Tesla turbines can’t work/get low torque/have to be spun to fast to even work yet you’ve got all sorts of proof that Tesla turbines get a butt load of torque even at low rpms!! 🤤
How are these people trying to argue with your conflicting TesTur results? Do they just not know about your work?!
there is so much potential in this!
You obviously didn’t watch the video
@@fredbloggs5902
I wouldn't havre written this comment if I hadn't watched the video
@@What_The_Fuck_Did_I_Just_Watch ok, so you didn’t understand it then, I’m not responsible for your cognitive deficiencies.
@@fredbloggs5902 you obviously haven’t done your homework on TesTurs and watched MORE than just this video.
TesTurs work just fine and get PLENTY of torque even at low RPMs. You just have to know how to design them properly.
Learned something today!
Integza would love this video
Normal water turbines averages 90% efficiency , some reaches more than 95%. Even pumped hydro ranges between 70-80% where energy is lost in both operations.
missing something...
the conversion of the water pressure or head, or potential energy, to kinetic energy, is always 50%.
if you block the pipe completely with turbine... no flow, no energy to extract. all potential energy.
if the pipe flows freely with no turbine...full flow, no energy extracted. all kinetic.
somewhere in the middle, you get half...
the peltons exactly the same, but in reverse. the pipe flows freely, the water achieves full velocity. then that velocity converts to pressure when it hits the blade, and the blade retreats at half the velocity... half...
half...
you will find the turbine is 85 to 90% efficient at THAT conversion... a pelton doesnt bring ALL the water to a complete smooth halt, theres some splash. a francis turbine doesnt quite turn all that pressure into velocity, theres eddies and turbulence...
@@paradiselost9946 what are you talking about is probably betz limit (altough not sure). And its not appliable on gravitational water turbines. It work on wind and open water turbines (with no pressure gradient). There you can theoreticaly take 59% of energy of medium so it can still flow. But in pressure devices like water turbines this isnt aplied since there is pressence of gravitation which is moving water forward to maintain flow.
@@Theeloberto sigh.
what makes the water flow? gravity.
so head is pressure. and head is potential energy.
stationary. doing nothing. cant use it.
as soon as any quantity of water starts moving from that height to a lower height, it is converting potential energy to kinetic energy.
if it falls freely, it converts all its potential to kinetic.
it still doesnt do anything.
for US to USE the potential in that head, we have to let it develop kinetic energy. it has to flow.
if we stop the flow, we dont do any work.
if we dont stop the flow, we dont do any work.
we have to stop the flow by HALF.
irrespective of what type of turbine we stick on there, we can only use HALF the potential energy available, or half the kinetic energy that may be developed during conversion.
the other half has to keep flowing, has to keep moving.
betz law is entirely different, as there is no potential to be converted from, its already present as kinetic energy. all we have to deal with is mass flow over area. and if you broke it down to the potential required to induce the pressure gradient that caused that mass flow at that velocity, you would find that betz law is 59% of the 50%...
and then turbine marketers get really sneaky and sell you a "90% efficient" turbine, thats actually only 90% of 59% of 50%... and hell, we havent even dealt with the actual generator part yet!
but when it comes to wind power (or a mid river floating thing) we can happily ignore that first 50% figure.
Exactly.
@@paradiselost9946 Something tells me you don't have a degree in physics or engineering......
With new materials being discovered and people learning how to make them, I think the Tesla turbines will be able to get to speeds we never thought possible. (like graphene, borophene and others). Some might be lighter and stronger and could even have better properties to make them more efficient (and changes to the design, like combustion engines being redesigned for more power and better efficiency over the years).
Yep. Right now it's basically like Hero's engine but in the future they will probably be how it's done.
Tesla turbines aren’t supposed to be spun fast when used as a turbine. Only when used as a pump/compressor are they supposed to be spun fast because ALL centrifugal pumps’/compressors’ performance is tip speed dependent.
“I have found that the quantity of fluid propelled in this manner, is, other conditions being equal, approximately proportionate to the active surface of the runner and to its effective speed. For this reason, the performance of such machines augments at an exceedingly high rate with the increase of their size and speed of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
In Tesla’s own words he even knew that spinning too fast creates to much centrifugal head and counters the incoming fluid flow, reducing the pressure gradient across the nozzle, reducing the final fluid velocity leaving the nozzle, reducing the mass flow rate and ultimately reducing power.
Spinning fast only slightly increases the efficiency but at the cost of power.
“Still another valuable and probably unique quality of such motors or prime movers may be described. By proper construction and observance of working conditions the centrifugal pressure, opposing the passage of the fluid, may, as already indicated, be made nearly equal to the pressure of supply when the machine is running idle. If the inlet section be large, small changes in the speed of revolution will produce great differences in flow which are further enhanced by the concomitant variations in the length of the spiral path. A self-regulating machine is thus obtained bearing a striking resemblance to a direct-current electric motor in this respect that, with great differences of impressed pressure in a wide open channel the flow of the fluid through the same is prevented by virtue of rotation. Since the centrifugal head increases as the square of the revolutions, or even more rapidly, and with modern high grade steel great peripheral velocities are practicable, it is possible to attain that condition in a single stage machine, more readily if the runner be of large diameter. Obviously this problem is facilitated by compounding, as will be understood by those skilled in the art. Irrespective of its bearing on economy, this tendency which is, to a degree, common to motors of the above description, is of special advantage in the operation of large units, as it affords a safeguard against running away and destruction. Besides these, such a prime mover possesses many other advantages, both constructive and operative. It is simple, light and compact, subject to but little wear, cheap and exceptionally easy to manufacture as small clearances and accurate milling work are not essential to good performance. In operation it is reliable, there being no valves, sliding contacts or troublesome vanes. It is almost free of windage, largely independent of nozzle efficiency and suitable for high as well as for low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
…suitable for high as well as for low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution… 🤭
The way to increase efficiency is to reduce slip on the discs.
“Owing to a number of causes affecting the performance, it is difficult to frame a precise rule which would be generally applicable, but it may be stated that within certain limits, and other conditions being the same, the torque is directly proportionate to the square of the velocity of the fluid relatively to the runner and to the effective area of the disks and, inversely, to the distance separating them. The machine will, generally, perform its maximum work when the effective speed of the runner is one-half of that of the fluid; but to attain the highest economy, the relative speed or slip, for any given performance, should be as small as possible. This condition may be to any desired degree approximated by increasing the active area of and reducing the space between the disks.”
-Nikola Tesla
@@chrisp33 🙋♂️well if you mean that today is the future then yeah, because I make actual working TesTurs that output really power and torque at even low rpm.
You just have to know how to design them properly.
@@CharlieSolis Pretty interesting. The man was a genius. I can only imagine what he would have accomplished if people didn't take advantage of him and he had the money and equipment to make whatever he could imagine. They probably thought they were helping themselves, but with the little I know of Tesla, they were only locking him i a box. I can only imagine the technology we would have now, which I believe is what the government has kept from us.
@@deucedeuce1572 so I would urge you to read a little more from his “magnifying transmitter” paper. He actually dispels the myth that the government and even J.P. Morgan had a hand in stopping him.
In teslas very own words about wardenclyff…
“The tower was destroyed two years ago but my projects are being developed and another one, improved in some features, will be constructed. On this occasion I would contradict the widely circulated report that the structure was demolished by the Government which owing to war conditions, might have created prejudice in the minds of those who may not know that the papers, which thirty years ago conferred upon me the honor of American citizenship, are always kept in a safe, while my orders, diplomas, degrees, gold medals and other distinctions are packed away in old trunks. If this report had a foundation I would have been refunded a large sum of money which I expended in the construction of the tower. On the contrary it was in the interest of the Government to preserve it, particularly as it would have made possible - to mention just one valuable result - the location of a submarine in any part of the world. My plant, services, and all my improvements have always been at the disposal of the officials and ever since the outbreak of the European conflict I have been working at a sacrifice on several inventions of mine relating to aerial navigation, ship propulsion and wireless transmission which are of the greatest importance to the country. Those who are well informed know that my ideas have revolutionized the industries of the United States and I am not aware that there lives an inventor who has been, in this respect, as fortunate as myself especially as regards the use of his improvements in the war. I have refrained from publicly expressing myself on this subject before as it seemed improper to dwell on personal matters while all the world was in dire trouble. I would add further, in view of various rumors which have reached me, that Mr. J. Pierpont Morgan did not interest himself with me in a business way but in the same large spirit in which he has assisted many other pioneers. He carried out his generous promise to the letter and it would have been most unreasonable to expect from him anything more. He had the highest regard for my attainments and gave me every evidence of his complete faith in my ability to ultimately achieve what I had set out to do. I am unwilling to accord to some small-minded and jealous individuals the satisfaction of having thwarted my efforts. These men are to me nothing more than microbes of a nasty disease. My project was retarded by laws of nature. The world was not prepared for it. It was too far ahead of time. But the same laws will prevail in the end and make it a triumphal success.”
-Nikola Tesla
I'm not sure if I'm remembering it wrong, but I think Tesla turbines are used for some things in dams when producing electricity. It might also be the Tesla valve.. but there's something ringing a bell.
I see combat robot potential with this
For what I know common turbines have an efficiency which is usually higher than 85%, usually also over 90%, so there is really no point in tesla turbines which in real esperiments with load show much worse performance in general.
I believe your thinking of the electrical side of it, the alternator. Their talking about the straight water movement.
No, I'm referring to the exchange of energy between the fluid and the mechanical part: pelton turbines have efficiencies up to around 90%, francis turbines can go a little higher also (for what concerns hydraulic turbines). For steam and gas turbines it is a bit more difficult to find reliable data, but usually they are still around 90%. If you consider a complete cycle like a combined cycle than yes, the efficiency of the whole cycle, fuel to generator is around 60%, but that is not considered here also.
Yes actually 90% is closer to the complete efficiency of a hydro power plant including all electrical equipment which has lower efficiencies than the turbine itself.
@@matteomarinoni1676 for hydro power plants as a very conservative rough estimate to convert from potential energy to electrical energy normally 85% is used, this of course include all electrical equipment, turbines but also the main part which is flow resistance in the pipes leading to the turbines (and from the turbines depending on the type of turbine used)
Your talking isentropic efficiency! But What about costs at micro scale size? This wil be a nice way to heat your house while producing electric power at The same time using a steam boiler or something
I love the effort and love for Tesla turbines but I really wish these multi million subscriber channels would actually do their homework on the TesTurs before making a video telling people entirely inaccurate things about the working machinations of the TesTurs…
Despite what everyone erroneously claims about TesTurs, chasing high RPMs is exactly why nobody makes Tesla turbines that actually work.
That’s NOT how they are supposed to be run in the first place. TesTurs output PLENTY of torque and power even at low rpms.
Efficiency is actually increased by reducing slip.
Increasing the disc speed does nothing to reduce the slip, only increase the distance the fluid could slip across the disc which doesn’t increase efficiency.
Just listen to what Tesla says to do,
1) increase the fluid speed relative to. the discs (not high speed disc)
2) increase surface area.
3) decrease the disc spacing.
“Owing to a number of causes affecting the performance, it is difficult to frame a precise rule which would be generally applicable, but it may be stated that within certain limits, and other conditions being the same, the torque is directly proportionate to the square of the velocity of the fluid relatively to the runner and to the effective area of the disks and, inversely, to the distance separating them. The machine will, generally, perform its maximum work when the effective speed of the runner is one-half of that of the fluid; but to attain the highest economy, the relative speed or slip, for any given performance, should be as small as possible. This condition may be to any desired degree approximated by increasing the active area of and reducing the space between the disks.”
-Nikola Tesla
Increasing disc speed only increases efficiency at the cost of power because of the centrifugal head as you increase the rpm, it counters the incoming fluid flow.
“Still another valuable and probably unique quality of such motors or prime movers may be described. By proper construction and observance of working conditions the centrifugal pressure, opposing the passage of the fluid, may, as already indicated, be made nearly equal to the pressure of supply when the machine is running idle. If the inlet section be large, small changes in the speed of revolution will produce great differences in flow which are further enhanced by the concomitant variations in the length of the spiral path. A self-regulating machine is thus obtained bearing a striking resemblance to a direct-current electric motor in this respect that, with great differences of impressed pressure in a wide open channel the flow of the fluid through the same is prevented by virtue of rotation. Since the centrifugal head increases as the square of the revolutions, or even more rapidly, and with modern high grade steel great peripheral velocities are practicable, it is possible to attain that condition in a single stage machine, more readily if the runner be of large diameter. Obviously this problem is facilitated by compounding, as will be understood by those skilled in the art. Irrespective of its bearing on economy, this tendency which is, to a degree, common to motors of the above description, is of special advantage in the operation of large units, as it affords a safeguard against running away and destruction. Besides these, such a prime mover possesses many other advantages, both constructive and operative. It is simple, light and compact, subject to but little wear, cheap and exceptionally easy to manufacture as small clearances and accurate milling work are not essential to good performance. In operation it is reliable, there being no valves, sliding contacts or troublesome vanes. It is almost free of windage, largely independent of nozzle efficiency and suitable for high as well as for low fluid velocities and speeds of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
The only time you want to spin the turbine fast is when it’s being used as a pump/compressor, because ALL centrifugal pumps’/compressors’ performance is tip speed dependent.
“I have found that the quantity of fluid propelled in this manner, is, other conditions being equal, approximately proportionate to the active surface of the runner and to its effective speed. For this reason, the performance of such machines augments at an exceedingly high rate with the increase of their size and speed of revolution.”
-Nikola Tesla
Does no one actually read the patents before they go and try to tell people how the turbine actually works?!?
🤦♂️
🤭 yeahhhhh…. Don’t you actually build real working TesTur too?!
Last I saw, Charlie, your latest TesTur did 4.25kW at only 6000-8000rpm and 6.22ft-lbs of torwue at only 4150rpm, right?!
🤭
Why does everyone make these incorrect statements about the TesTur?
I saw how your turbine makes 2.6 kW of electrical power output. And it is amazing. It is really working!!!
Your totally right , because I replicated your design i can confirm Al of this, bigger diameter en smal spacing offer a great energy output at low rpm
Yeahhhhh….. lol “Tesla turbines have to be spun to fast and only get low torque…” 🤭
Charlie already has proven that a complete myth.
No wonder no one has been able to make them work before you! Big channels just make a quick video telling people incorrect working principles of the turbine and it spreads like wildfire! 😮💨
@@DmytroSichkarOnline seriously though! Actual working Tesla turbines but somehow no one knows about Charlie!
Have you tried to make a room with full of retroreflector? like the bigger onces.
Since the pumped material does not impinge normally on the disks it can be a carborundum slurry or even concrete aggregate. There is vey little wear in the disks.
What if you want something to be turbulence like mixing fluids but want to be done quick all at once? I mean if I want to mixed something all at once instead having to take it out and put into another mixture which use more energy.
That’s a totally different requirement that has nothing to do with this.
“Tesla pump multi fluid vortex mixer - air:fuel mixer and atomizer”
I promise you won’t be disappointed figuring out what that^^ is 😇😈
I think the general problem with TTs is controlling the operating regime, i.e. Laminar flow. For the TT this is when the disks are rotating at the same speed as the fluid. As soon as the fluid flow is changed or the load on the turbine is changed you break out of laminar flow regime. Maybe an RPM governor can help but I'm sure the engineers that work with TT in specific applications already know how to do this.
I wonder if he developed his valve during the same time in an attempt to control flow somehow?
If you keep the disc spaces tight enough, as Tesla says to do, (not spin fast) you won’t trip to turbulent flow between the discs.
Charlie Solis makes actual working TesTurs that output real power and torque even at low RPMs because he designing his TesTurs the way Tesla actually says to design them.
“Owing to a number of causes affecting the performance, it is difficult to frame a precise rule which would be generally applicable, but it may be stated that within certain limits, and other conditions being the same, the torque is directly proportionate to the square of the velocity of the fluid relatively to the runner and to the effective area of the disks and, inversely, to the distance separating them. The machine will, generally, perform its maximum work when the effective speed of the runner is one-half of that of the fluid; but to attain the highest economy, the relative speed or slip, for any given performance, should be as small as possible. This condition may be to any desired degree approximated by increasing the active area of and reducing the space between the disks.”
-Nikola Tesla
The exhaust should be released through holes fitted at the center of the turbine. That will make it more efficient. And, I am always guessing if the pressurized gas can be released through a De Laval nozzle instead of a simple hose.
What is a De Laval nozzle?
@@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep A convergent-divergent nozzle.
Costly but a diamond-carbon nanotube lattice would be exceptional on the warping problem