I've started full clearing in low elo after getting fed up playing gank heavy tanks. And it works, but you really need to be disciplined about what fights you take, because if you ever die for nothing you lose the advantage that you've built up over the last 10 minutes. Also there's a good chance that your team will be mental boom by 20 minutes. But counter jungling is strong, since camps are always up cross map.
First! Perry has been coaching Ludwig... You gave an example of the worst case scenario where if you try to gank early and it fails you're kinda punished for that. Maybe you die and give gold to a snowballing champ or maybe the enemy jungler invades your opposite side. In low elo I think a lot of junglers don't know how to recover from that. Like what if I play Reksai and I gank bot lane and a Kalista kills me. And say Viego started top side, sees my gank fail and takes my blue/gromp. Feels like I start to fall behind super fast early.
You don't have to lose a significant amount of camps when they're invading you. If you do red raptors gromp and then gank bot, the enemy jungler can get max 1 camp off a top side invade. Even in the example when you're playing rek'sai and die, you get back to blue/gromp fast enough to defend the invade before viego can come.
@@Pentaless-kd4fn Ah that pathing makes sense then. If the teammate you're pathing to is trash or starts inting, do you just reverse your clear or start playing for someone else asap?
@@brotendono, no, no. That pathing is trash and you should always full clear before you get your first item. After that you play for objectives. Don't let the ganking playstyle grow on you. Its just unreliable
@@lowlight1063 Yeah. It seems super unreliable in lower elos when no one knows how to set up a gank, follow up on a gank, or even know what good wave states are for ganking or setting up slow pushes for dives. In challenger pretty much everyone has an idea of what the correct play is. In low elo, early ganks are coinflip.
One question I have is - would you say the early gank vs early full clear is also somewhat dependent on the champ you're playing? What if you're playing something like Lilia or Diana?
It is dependant on the champion you're playing. I'd say that its difficult to gank with Diana early but Lillia is a champ that can make early game ganks work. Most junglers in league are able to do these sorts of early game ganks.
@@PanCake-ks3gyVolibear can gank well early if there is setup. Likewise with Kayn due to how much Q chunks but you’re usually better off farming or looking for an invade since the lack of hard CC makes ganks unreliable.
Love this style of content bro! I just wanted to ask how mechanically easy you would say nunu is? I play at pretty high latency since i play from cape town, my biggest struggle is dodging the faster skill shots that i dont predict/ see coming so im not sure if thats a deal breaker or not on nunu, thanks!
Also a question, what about the debate of carry vs. utility based junglers in low elo? I got diamond maining top. Now I'm playing jungle and hardstuck gold lmao. I'm onetricking Graves. Feels like a good champ to carry and make plays early but very team reliant
I feel like ganking junglers and farming junglers have two different skillets. Ganking junglers depend on how good your ganks are and farming junglers depend on how well you can invade and fight. However most farming junglers like graves are able to gank as well
Do you really think "gank more and impact the map" is bad advice compared to "afk full clear every game and flip your team winning lanes by themselves"
@italaugh83745 if you had actually at least once watched perry's commentary and listened to advices that he gave to ludwig, you would know what their interpretation of "playing for full clears" really is. There are stages of the game and early it is the most rewarding on average to full clear because you will get you first item faster. Perry preaches speedrunning the first item and NOT full clearing all game. Full clearing is not the strategy ludwig is trying to apply. What perry is saying to ludwig and not only to him time and time again is to play for objectives. And how are you going to play for objectives if you ganked two lanes unsuccessfully (i.e got a sum for sum, kill for kill, assist for flash or nothing at all) while your opponent cleared 6 camps + scuttle and recalled for components and is heading out for the second scuttle while you didn't even finish your first 6 camps?
@@italaugh83745 if you change "afk full clear" to "full clear if there are no high percentage plays" (which is what perry et al *actually* teaches), then yes, it's bad advice. low elow junglers *specifically* are not good at the micro for executing ganks, and clearing camps is a tad easier micro-wise for guaranteed gold+xp.
Very good stuff, good to learn. Improvement idea: Please mute the ingame sound for commentaries. it's not so easy to listen to when the champions are going crazy ingame
your calculation is not actually correct. if i fullclear and my opponent does 3 camps into a gank and gets a kill, im actually ahead in exp and i know where he is as well, so i could invade him and kill him with my level and hp lead, if i wanted to. either way this exp lead carries over to the next rotation as well, if one guy ganks the entire game and other player clears efficiently (he can still gank after a full clear btw, especially in low elo this will work very well since people dont know the gank timers), this will build up to a massive level lead over an entire game, 3 to 5 levels, sometimes more, especially in low elo where people dont farm or gank efficiently. by ganking often, you are sacrificing your own power in exchange for giving your teammates more power, which is a horrible combination in low elo soloqueue. you want to have to most exp and gold, what your teammates do is irrelevant, even if they get a lead early, they will 100% throw their lead away later on, else they would not be playing in low elo. i feel like his perception of the game is entirely backwards because he plays nunu in high elo, if he was playing a carry champ in low elo, he would have a completely different opinion on this. when i smurf in low elo, i always have at least a 90% winrate over hundreds of games, my personal record was about 50 wins in a row, i can tell you for sure that if you play like this guy in low elo, you will not be able to win 50 in a row, no matter how good you are, his playstyle is way to coinflip to work consistently. also taking one game as an example where the enemy jungler doesnt farm efficiently to "prove your point" is pretty silly as well, he couldve been up in levels to you but he didnt because he made some mistakes, but that was not in your control either, you basically got lucky that the enemy jg sucks, he mightve been autofilled, first timing his champion, this proves nothing
Update Ludwig’s not silver 2 anymore. He hit his goal of plat 4 😭 bro hit winners queue and did not stop
I've started full clearing in low elo after getting fed up playing gank heavy tanks. And it works, but you really need to be disciplined about what fights you take, because if you ever die for nothing you lose the advantage that you've built up over the last 10 minutes. Also there's a good chance that your team will be mental boom by 20 minutes. But counter jungling is strong, since camps are always up cross map.
I'm loving this commentary - great video
I’m really interested to see what Perry Jg has to say about this one
First!
Perry has been coaching Ludwig...
You gave an example of the worst case scenario where if you try to gank early and it fails you're kinda punished for that. Maybe you die and give gold to a snowballing champ or maybe the enemy jungler invades your opposite side. In low elo I think a lot of junglers don't know how to recover from that.
Like what if I play Reksai and I gank bot lane and a Kalista kills me. And say Viego started top side, sees my gank fail and takes my blue/gromp. Feels like I start to fall behind super fast early.
You don't have to lose a significant amount of camps when they're invading you. If you do red raptors gromp and then gank bot, the enemy jungler can get max 1 camp off a top side invade. Even in the example when you're playing rek'sai and die, you get back to blue/gromp fast enough to defend the invade before viego can come.
@@Pentaless-kd4fn Ah that pathing makes sense then. If the teammate you're pathing to is trash or starts inting, do you just reverse your clear or start playing for someone else asap?
@@brotendono, no, no. That pathing is trash and you should always full clear before you get your first item. After that you play for objectives. Don't let the ganking playstyle grow on you. Its just unreliable
@@lowlight1063 Yeah. It seems super unreliable in lower elos when no one knows how to set up a gank, follow up on a gank, or even know what good wave states are for ganking or setting up slow pushes for dives. In challenger pretty much everyone has an idea of what the correct play is. In low elo, early ganks are coinflip.
@@brotendo even in challanger you cannot rely on your teammates to set up a gank
One question I have is - would you say the early gank vs early full clear is also somewhat dependent on the champ you're playing? What if you're playing something like Lilia or Diana?
It is dependant on the champion you're playing. I'd say that its difficult to gank with Diana early but Lillia is a champ that can make early game ganks work. Most junglers in league are able to do these sorts of early game ganks.
@@Pentaless-kd4fnwhat about kayn or volibear
@@PanCake-ks3gyVolibear can gank well early if there is setup. Likewise with Kayn due to how much Q chunks but you’re usually better off farming or looking for an invade since the lack of hard CC makes ganks unreliable.
Love this style of content bro! I just wanted to ask how mechanically easy you would say nunu is? I play at pretty high latency since i play from cape town, my biggest struggle is dodging the faster skill shots that i dont predict/ see coming so im not sure if thats a deal breaker or not on nunu, thanks!
Also a question, what about the debate of carry vs. utility based junglers in low elo? I got diamond maining top. Now I'm playing jungle and hardstuck gold lmao. I'm onetricking Graves. Feels like a good champ to carry and make plays early but very team reliant
I feel like ganking junglers and farming junglers have two different skillets. Ganking junglers depend on how good your ganks are and farming junglers depend on how well you can invade and fight. However most farming junglers like graves are able to gank as well
i really enjoy your videos, do you have advice how to build nunu im struggling with that atm
Generally its liandries -> merc treads -> dead mans and build a dark seal as early as possible. Afterwards you can try and go jaksho and build tankier
another great example of somebody who thinks they have a good take for low elo because they're high elo
its great advice for low elo it probably works better in low elo even
Do you really think "gank more and impact the map" is bad advice compared to "afk full clear every game and flip your team winning lanes by themselves"
There's not one way to play the game. He's a Nunu player, of course he's going to see the game through a gank heavy lens.
@italaugh83745 if you had actually at least once watched perry's commentary and listened to advices that he gave to ludwig, you would know what their interpretation of "playing for full clears" really is.
There are stages of the game and early it is the most rewarding on average to full clear because you will get you first item faster. Perry preaches speedrunning the first item and NOT full clearing all game. Full clearing is not the strategy ludwig is trying to apply. What perry is saying to ludwig and not only to him time and time again is to play for objectives. And how are you going to play for objectives if you ganked two lanes unsuccessfully (i.e got a sum for sum, kill for kill, assist for flash or nothing at all) while your opponent cleared 6 camps + scuttle and recalled for components and is heading out for the second scuttle while you didn't even finish your first 6 camps?
@@italaugh83745 if you change "afk full clear" to "full clear if there are no high percentage plays" (which is what perry et al *actually* teaches), then yes, it's bad advice. low elow junglers *specifically* are not good at the micro for executing ganks, and clearing camps is a tad easier micro-wise for guaranteed gold+xp.
Very good stuff, good to learn. Improvement idea: Please mute the ingame sound for commentaries. it's not so easy to listen to when the champions are going crazy ingame
first 3 mins and already lost all hope (that was left) for north america
Great video
Should I play full ap in emerald elo or not?
Its generally only good sitautionally into team comps that cant stop your snowball.
your calculation is not actually correct. if i fullclear and my opponent does 3 camps into a gank and gets a kill, im actually ahead in exp and i know where he is as well, so i could invade him and kill him with my level and hp lead, if i wanted to. either way this exp lead carries over to the next rotation as well, if one guy ganks the entire game and other player clears efficiently (he can still gank after a full clear btw, especially in low elo this will work very well since people dont know the gank timers), this will build up to a massive level lead over an entire game, 3 to 5 levels, sometimes more, especially in low elo where people dont farm or gank efficiently. by ganking often, you are sacrificing your own power in exchange for giving your teammates more power, which is a horrible combination in low elo soloqueue. you want to have to most exp and gold, what your teammates do is irrelevant, even if they get a lead early, they will 100% throw their lead away later on, else they would not be playing in low elo. i feel like his perception of the game is entirely backwards because he plays nunu in high elo, if he was playing a carry champ in low elo, he would have a completely different opinion on this. when i smurf in low elo, i always have at least a 90% winrate over hundreds of games, my personal record was about 50 wins in a row, i can tell you for sure that if you play like this guy in low elo, you will not be able to win 50 in a row, no matter how good you are, his playstyle is way to coinflip to work consistently. also taking one game as an example where the enemy jungler doesnt farm efficiently to "prove your point" is pretty silly as well, he couldve been up in levels to you but he didnt because he made some mistakes, but that was not in your control either, you basically got lucky that the enemy jg sucks, he mightve been autofilled, first timing his champion, this proves nothing
I mean no offense with this, but why do you sound so much like Yassuo? Are you *him* ? 🤣
Nah, first time somebody's told me that