@Zachariah Peterson for 8+ years, I used to be doing it the way you showed with the DNI/DNP comments or even adding it as part of parameters so it will have its own column in BOM. But I got introduced to variants couple years ago and find it to be my preferred way once i got the hang of it :-)
Yep, my ‘default project’ includes a Variant called ‘Default Build’ (or whatever), then it’s virtually guaranteed that those DNPd components won’t show up in the BOM (so long as you choose that Variant in the OutJob once & then save), no further manual intervention needed. What’s not to like about this!? Looking forward to your vid on Variants ;-)
@@techydude The other thing we run into is when working with different clients, they have different preferences as far as what they want to see in the deliverables. Our biggest EMS clients don't touch the design files in Altium, they want to know what is DNP with it clearly marked in schematic and BOM, so we have to add those notes and highlight those lines in the Excel file.
Yup, you completely missed my SOP: variants. I always create a MAIN variant, so that way I can use the X tool to DNP components. My philosophy: NEVER TOUCH THE BOM. EVER. I.e. make sure the correct BOM is auto generated.
@@Zachariah-Peterson Yeah, I hear ya. It's a headache. I wish Altium allowed you to DNP parts without creating a variant, but visually like it's done with variants.
I use a dedicated schematic library item and footprint for each package size where I want a DNL, that way there is no confusion even if the component ends up on the BOM it’s likely the assembler will pick it up and query as it’s Schlib name, pcblib name, description/comment all include DNL of some sort
Ugh! Awful. Variants deals with all that. I don't mean to sound like a Variants Zealot, but wow, you're making so much extra work for yourself this way. I know, "it's done now", but you're still changing/reloading symbol & footprint every time you change your mind on a DNP! No thanks.
Please use the Variants feature for this. But unfortuately in managed Release for A365 that feature is broken: Even when the Outjob is Set up to us Variant plus No-Variation outputs the data generation is defective. The presented ways in the video are ok for small projects without change tracking. But Altium 365 should be able to delivery to professional change tracking - but it doesn't do. Please help to make the managed release live to its big potential, thanks!
Zach, can you make a video on ActiveBOM? Maybe tips and tricks? I find it slow to use. And it seems to be lacking on making changes to multiple lines at once. Is there a way to auto create solutions? Thanks!
I use a variant for the DNF components, but our clients want a BOM that has everything listed. So in the BOM setup, I add the Fitted column and then group the columns first by Fitted and then by MPN
I was replying to someone else that my biggest EMS clients want this too, they want everything listed in the BOM and then specifically called out as DNP.
Our assembler also asks for this. But then in managed release the assembly drawing is generated with the DNP components missing the designators. This is really important to not happen for final production checking. I hope managed release will get this problem fixed!
The other way is to add a parameter, to components symbol, called `Assembly` and set its value to `DNP`. But I very like the option to set Standart(No BOM) setting.
I have a question if possible: I have a pcb that contains a raspberry pi. The raspberry pi is mounted with a spacer and screws so there are some space under it. If i place components under the raspberry pi could i face EMI problem that can couple to the raspberry pi or should i free the space under the raspberry pi completely? Thanks
You will most likely be fine, I am assuming you are designing the base board to have same power return/ground as the pi, and you are putting ground below the surface layer. It's unlikely you will couple noise back into any of the signal lines on the pi unless they are running beneath the pi and coupling direclty to a net with fast edge rates.
@@Zachariah-Peterson so if a buck converter is located under the PI could it radiate and affect the PI? Usually the radiation from traces located on the top layer can spread to the air as energy is 3D. Maybe increasing the spacer length could lower the impact? But is there any way to know the limit depending on the radiation?
@fedi makni Yes the radiated energy could be received on the top layer of the Pi but it will likely be so small that you will not notice this is because the pi has its own ground plane that helps to block that radiation from the buck converter. That buck converter would have to operate at very high dI/dt and dV/dt to create noticeable noise on the top side of the Pi. If the buck converter is closer to its ground plane on the lower board then it will have less of an effect.
Hello Dear Zac. hope that you are ok! saw a video that you shielded the escoc the boar with a thin polygon with vias, and I just can't find it now. can you help Best regards
Big Clive would just hoick out those rogue resistors with a pair of side cutters. You're bodging a prototype board; no need to be delicate here. Another way to deal with this in the pre-fabrication stage, especially if you're working with a cut-grade rapid prototyping fabricator like many of your viewers are, is to take a few minutes to remove the DNP components before building your Gerbers. If your EDA software file formats allow it (and I frankly can't be bothered with even the free-as-in-beer version of Altium, so I don't know if this works with your proprietary software), you could even replace this step with a very small shell script. If those components are needed in a later revision, you can always just add them back in.
I've been known to use clippers to cut the leads on ICs when I need to remove them. I've also been given schematics where the previous revision did the same thing, you see this blank spot in the files and they say "oh there was a 10k resistor there" or something, and then you have to figure it out.
what is the difference between DNP DNM DNI ? as far as I know it is the same Also you mentioned you would link the initial design files but I cant seems to find them. What is that soldering tip that you used? is it a T12 K ?
A link to the files is in the "LTE + GNSS Asset Tracker Part 2" article linked in the description, our files were modified from this original project. There is no difference between DNP/DNI/DNM, they all mean the same thing. Someone else mentioned "DNF" for "do not fit" in another comment. The soldering tip is similar to T12-K but it does not have the angle on it, that way you can just push on the side of the component if you can't get tweezers around the part.
DNP = Do Not Place (i.e. modern pick-n-placeassembly) DNI - Do Not Insert, harkens back to the through-hole days. DNF = Do Not Fit, a generic half-way between DNI & DNP? I dunno! No idea what DNM means :-)
I'm not going to tell anyone what color to use, as long as it appears as text in the schematic you can CTRL+F in the exported PDF. I don't normally use variants because some of my clients require the BOM to have the DNP listed in it, they don't want to juggle around multiple BOMs. I mentioned this in a few other replies so I won't repeat here.
I use the variant option to mark DNPs. Gives clear marking on the schematic as well
I was going to write the same comment. I believe it's the best solution. When generating draftsman assembly drawing DNP components are also marked
Altium has VARIANTS so you can use it to specify all components you don't wanna populate. Comments could get lost or require some manual handling
I've never been a fan of the variants feature but I know people who are big fans. In any case, you are giving away the topic for another video!
@Zachariah Peterson for 8+ years, I used to be doing it the way you showed with the DNI/DNP comments or even adding it as part of parameters so it will have its own column in BOM. But I got introduced to variants couple years ago and find it to be my preferred way once i got the hang of it :-)
I’m a variant man also. Very clear and has never failed me🤞
Yep, my ‘default project’ includes a Variant called ‘Default Build’ (or whatever), then it’s virtually guaranteed that those DNPd components won’t show up in the BOM (so long as you choose that Variant in the OutJob once & then save), no further manual intervention needed. What’s not to like about this!? Looking forward to your vid on Variants ;-)
@@techydude The other thing we run into is when working with different clients, they have different preferences as far as what they want to see in the deliverables. Our biggest EMS clients don't touch the design files in Altium, they want to know what is DNP with it clearly marked in schematic and BOM, so we have to add those notes and highlight those lines in the Excel file.
Yup, you completely missed my SOP: variants. I always create a MAIN variant, so that way I can use the X tool to DNP components.
My philosophy: NEVER TOUCH THE BOM. EVER. I.e. make sure the correct BOM is auto generated.
I'm not really a fan of variants but I know some people prefer that feature as part of their workflow. Variants are the topic of an upcoming video too
@@Zachariah-Peterson Yeah, I hear ya. It's a headache. I wish Altium allowed you to DNP parts without creating a variant, but visually like it's done with variants.
The Propper way, as shout have been shown by this video. Use the option to set as not fitted in the variant manager.
I use a dedicated schematic library item and footprint for each package size where I want a DNL, that way there is no confusion even if the component ends up on the BOM it’s likely the assembler will pick it up and query as it’s Schlib name, pcblib name, description/comment all include DNL of some sort
Ugh! Awful. Variants deals with all that. I don't mean to sound like a Variants Zealot, but wow, you're making so much extra work for yourself this way. I know, "it's done now", but you're still changing/reloading symbol & footprint every time you change your mind on a DNP! No thanks.
Please use the Variants feature for this. But unfortuately in managed Release for A365 that feature is broken: Even when the Outjob is Set up to us Variant plus No-Variation outputs the data generation is defective.
The presented ways in the video are ok for small projects without change tracking. But Altium 365 should be able to delivery to professional change tracking - but it doesn't do. Please help to make the managed release live to its big potential, thanks!
Zach, can you make a video on ActiveBOM? Maybe tips and tricks? I find it slow to use. And it seems to be lacking on making changes to multiple lines at once. Is there a way to auto create solutions? Thanks!
I use a variant for the DNF components, but our clients want a BOM that has everything listed. So in the BOM setup, I add the Fitted column and then group the columns first by Fitted and then by MPN
I was replying to someone else that my biggest EMS clients want this too, they want everything listed in the BOM and then specifically called out as DNP.
Our assembler also asks for this. But then in managed release the assembly drawing is generated with the DNP components missing the designators. This is really important to not happen for final production checking.
I hope managed release will get this problem fixed!
The other way is to add a parameter, to components symbol, called `Assembly` and set its value to `DNP`. But I very like the option to set Standart(No BOM) setting.
I like this, might have to start doing this!
I have a question if possible:
I have a pcb that contains a raspberry pi. The raspberry pi is mounted with a spacer and screws so there are some space under it. If i place components under the raspberry pi could i face EMI problem that can couple to the raspberry pi or should i free the space under the raspberry pi completely? Thanks
You will most likely be fine, I am assuming you are designing the base board to have same power return/ground as the pi, and you are putting ground below the surface layer. It's unlikely you will couple noise back into any of the signal lines on the pi unless they are running beneath the pi and coupling direclty to a net with fast edge rates.
@@Zachariah-Peterson so if a buck converter is located under the PI could it radiate and affect the PI? Usually the radiation from traces located on the top layer can spread to the air as energy is 3D. Maybe increasing the spacer length could lower the impact? But is there any way to know the limit depending on the radiation?
@fedi makni Yes the radiated energy could be received on the top layer of the Pi but it will likely be so small that you will not notice this is because the pi has its own ground plane that helps to block that radiation from the buck converter. That buck converter would have to operate at very high dI/dt and dV/dt to create noticeable noise on the top side of the Pi. If the buck converter is closer to its ground plane on the lower board then it will have less of an effect.
Hello Dear Zac.
hope that you are ok!
saw a video that you shielded the escoc the boar with a thin polygon with vias, and I just can't find it now.
can you help
Best regards
Big Clive would just hoick out those rogue resistors with a pair of side cutters. You're bodging a prototype board; no need to be delicate here.
Another way to deal with this in the pre-fabrication stage, especially if you're working with a cut-grade rapid prototyping fabricator like many of your viewers are, is to take a few minutes to remove the DNP components before building your Gerbers. If your EDA software file formats allow it (and I frankly can't be bothered with even the free-as-in-beer version of Altium, so I don't know if this works with your proprietary software), you could even replace this step with a very small shell script. If those components are needed in a later revision, you can always just add them back in.
I've been known to use clippers to cut the leads on ICs when I need to remove them. I've also been given schematics where the previous revision did the same thing, you see this blank spot in the files and they say "oh there was a 10k resistor there" or something, and then you have to figure it out.
what is the difference between DNP DNM DNI ? as far as I know it is the same
Also you mentioned you would link the initial design files but I cant seems to find them.
What is that soldering tip that you used? is it a T12 K ?
A link to the files is in the "LTE + GNSS Asset Tracker Part 2" article linked in the description, our files were modified from this original project. There is no difference between DNP/DNI/DNM, they all mean the same thing. Someone else mentioned "DNF" for "do not fit" in another comment. The soldering tip is similar to T12-K but it does not have the angle on it, that way you can just push on the side of the component if you can't get tweezers around the part.
@@Zachariah-Peterson THX
DNP = Do Not Place (i.e. modern pick-n-placeassembly)
DNI - Do Not Insert, harkens back to the through-hole days.
DNF = Do Not Fit, a generic half-way between DNI & DNP? I dunno!
No idea what DNM means :-)
@@techydude DNM = Do Not Mount (harkens back to the surface mount days lol!)
@@techydude DNM Do Not Mount i think
Wouldn't it be better to use large red DNF label/designator on those components? also board variants so you can create two different BOMs?
I'm not going to tell anyone what color to use, as long as it appears as text in the schematic you can CTRL+F in the exported PDF. I don't normally use variants because some of my clients require the BOM to have the DNP listed in it, they don't want to juggle around multiple BOMs. I mentioned this in a few other replies so I won't repeat here.
Would be great if during layout Altium automatically put "DNP" text on board if the element property set to No Bom.
I think you can add it to the silkscreen for your components
If you set a component as not fitted in altium variant manager, you actually can set this for layout options