I went from seeing The Scarlet Crusade as just one of numerous groups of canon fodder to actually modeling my own main on them. And the more Blizzard tries to tell me the Light is evil the more Scarlet I'm going to get.
I always found it annoying that we had to fought this faction. It would have been really cool if we could have started, as players, to help the crusade come back to its root. Nonetheless, one of the last cool factions that blizzard ever created
They remind me a lot of the blood elves, except the blood elves became fel magic junkies allying with their former enemies, while the crusade stuck with the light and became fanatics, rejecting everyone non-human.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn It's from the time before the scourge, where elves and dwarves contributed to the knights of the silver hand, the organisation the crusade was born from. Look among their ranks, you see and elves/dwarves there?
@@MrOrmanley Nah it is not from before the Scourge. Just look at the plates. Those Dwarfes and Elves fought when the Crusade was already founded and battled the Scourged, died fighting them
@MrOrmanley wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Fellari_Swiftarrow and they got little to do with original Silverhand, but were Commanders and Soldiers of the Crusade back in the day
Dude, thank you for telling us this story. I'm actually about to enter again into the scarlet monastery and I will think of every of these things while venturing in it again
I agree with your verdict. The Scarlet Crusade was done dirty and offd in a really awful way. Even worse that blizz keeps bringing them back in ever worse iterations
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn I like the Scarlet crusade and the way they keep bringing them back along with the cult of the twilight. is reminiscent of the fact that you can’t kill an ideology. It’s also a look into the fact that humans civilizations in World of Warcraft have this undertone to them that encourages these cults to continue to exist. (making it a structural problem) They just need to get the tone right when they bring them back. Because when they bring them back, it’s being shoehorned in most times.
There is a contingent of modern "content creators". (Programmers, designers, influencers, all forms of people who make all forms of content) That seem to be angling towards an attempt at shifting cultural paradigms to "what was good, is bad. What was bad, is good.". And I'm quite annoyed by it.
There isn't anything any writer at blizzard could ever do to make me not love the Scarlet Crusade. Even the Reclamation of Gilneas didn't work, because the level of contrivance they went through to make the Forsaken seem like good guys forms an impossible bar to clear for any suspension of disbelief. The simple fact that the city is reclaimed not from the monsters that actively tried to destroy its people but from a completely unrelated group that if anything would have been sympathetic to the cause of a people besieged by undead abominations and by them backed into an existential corner tells all.
Honestly I didnt even bother reading or playing through the Story after Legion. But from what Ive heard they basically c#ckd the Forsaken and made the Line of Menethil end with Calia as a newborn lightsided Forsaken. i think WoW writers suffer from the same illness as Hollywood and Disney etc. They lack actual talent and creativity and then you end up with bad stories
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn You're fortunate. Read no further if you wish to remain pure.
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In the Alpha/Beta of Shadowlands they tried to change the Forsaken intro narration to say this: "As one of the undead Forsaken, you have been reanimated by dark magic. Though shunned by the living, you tirelessly strive to protect them.” They got a lot of much-deserved hate for it, because it's completely ridiculous and so brazenly out of character for the Forsaken that even the usual shills couldn't mindbreak themselves into liking it, and as far as I'm aware it didn't make it to live. Nowadays Calia is their queen in all but name, able to direct the Forsaken on her whims despite them as a people and the other members of their new Desolate Council (sans Voss) not trusting her. They don't care that the Gilneans brutalized them in Silverpine and fought them to a stand-still, nor at all about the countless lives they must have spent at this point simply trying to hold onto Gilneas itself and securing their border against further assault. And Tess, the daughter of Genn, sister to Prince Liam who died in the initial effort to reclaim their city, is the one that invited them to help in the reclamation to begin with. Then Mia, Genn's wife, actually chides Genn for being put off on seeing them there. And you go there and kill Crusaders and what do you see on the shores across the city's moat but Forsaken catapults hurling barrels of blight directly at the city just like they did during their attempt to scorch the earth. But nobody cares about it, nobody gives anything resembling a damn. Even worse, there is zero difference between the Alliance and Horde experiences of the quest. They all do the exact same things, and share the exact same moment where Genn and the rest of the Alliance forces clad in Stormwind regalia -- because God forbid any faction content on either side involve aught besides Stormwind Humans or Orcs -- charge in to mangle the new remnants of the Scarlet Crusade. And in the end Genn hands off the crown to Tess after she downplays Liam's death and calls him a bad father. It's the most abominable, emasculating, miserable, and flagrantly stupid piece of writing I've ever seen put to page.
When Genn said he should never have built that wall I was dumbfounded. Like "Wasn't your city being besieged by the undead at the time?! But I noticed no one is give the pandarians shit about their wall.
I'm all in the on Scarlet Crusade being heroes. Hopefully with Metzen back they'll start to nuance the Scarlets' story. The stuff we get from the Brotherhood of Light NPCs is pretty much the same as the Scarlets' genocidal stance. So, maybe they'll start to rearrange some of that, especially with Balnazzar actually gone and no longer running the Scarlet Crusade.
I've always been drawn to the Crusade. How could you continue in such a world after watching everything and everyone you love be destroyed? Such a shame they were turned into cartoon villains by the current furry blizzard team. Which is now pushing both factions together like there is no history of brutal and horrific acts of violence against each other? Oh it is all fine and dandy now players. Nevermind the fact that only a few years ago these Orcs, Trolls, and Undead were burning your towns, and butchering your people. Just go hand in hand and help do these quests to make these scrawny dragon people happy. *spits*
😢 yeah I never got into this dragon lore. Cataclysm was a step in the right direction, bringing the War back into Warcraft. Every expansion afterwards feels like a continuous pop culture reference
I completely agree with you. There’s something deeply nostalgic and poignant about the earlier, grittier versions of Warcraft lore, where the Crusade and other factions like the Defias Brotherhood or the Night Elves possessed a more nuanced, hardcore essence. This radical and dark undertone added a ayer of depth and realism that seems glossed over in modern WoW. he Warcraft universe-where the strife between the Horde and the Alliance wasn't just backdrop but the heart of the narrative. The persistent tension and animosity gave the world a palpable sense of danger and unpredictability. Nowadays it is just one giga-mega world ending threat after the other, some great, big evil bad guy and a bit of sparkle and dragon glitter to go along with. Now, with the push towards a more unified, 'fluffy' approach, it feels as if much of the original spirit has been diluted. The historical grievances and fierce loyalties that shaped the identities of different factions are being sidelined in favour of this "One Azeroth" approach, where everyone comes together almost all the times to fight some greater evil Thingydibob
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn Agreed. It would be fine to focus on the big bad of the expansion if it was a different game with no past history outside of the mmo. But it isn't. People like to say that the RTS lore is small or insignificant to the lore of the mmo. The RTS lore laid the ground work for every single thing that came after WoW launched, and the was the driving force behind it. It may have been twenty something years for us to move forward with this narrative, but for the in game characters it hasn't. All of this shit that has happened to everyone who lives on Azeroth has taken place within 10-15'ish years. About 30'ish years since the First War. That isn't a lot of time at all in comparison to real life events. We are still feeling the consequences of WW2, and the Cold War. Pushing all of that history to the side in favor of some new writers ideas of fun and whimsy is a slap in the face of the history of this game. It sucks getting invested in something and watching it be corrupted and ruined in front of your eyes. Like the Scarlet Crusade! lol
The Scarlet Crusade did a LOT wrong. It's why they're so well-liked. Like Magnus from Warhammer 40K, they had many flaws and were too blind to notice them or too hateful and insane to care. They're meant to be villains, but sympathetic ones you can relate to and understand.
1:15 To be honest, a BIG issue for me is that part of the story is told NOT IN GAME but in BOOKS and COMICS instead. Those two mediums are ok, if all they do is RETELL what you can see IN GAME, preferably with more depth. But in addition, for my taste they retcon too much, they create stuff that doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever. The story for the most part, did make sense up to the middle of the Mists of Pandaria expansion. I for one was not a huge fan story-wise to turn Garrosh into a villain, I find the backstory for Warlords of Draenor hilariously bad. Garrosh with the help of a Bronze Dragonflight guy travels "to the past of a parallel universe Draenor". Let that sink in. Just because "our" Gul'dan is long dead, and they so wish they could put him up as a boss. What follows was Legion, which for the most part made sense, save Gul'dan. The thing that makes no sense, is the fact that we could defeat the Legion... a faction with never-ending resources, with WORLDS OF SOLDIERS... can be brought down like this. Battle for Azeroth was somewhat better storywise, but it feels rushed, they blew great enemies too fast, Aszhara should have gotten a own Expansion, but instead she they twisted the tale in a way that shes the handmaiden of N'zoth. Great. I didn't play Shadowlands when it was live, I did play the story now. Shadowlands is another one of those half-baked expansions, the story makes no sense, the gameplay is trash with its splintered mini-islands which is the ultimate middle finger to everyone wanting a big island where they can fly around. But Dragonflight is not better story-wise. Better then Shadowlands and other deep points like Garrosh's fall or Gul'dan.
A big issue i find with the Scarlet Crusade is that Blizzard failed to made them a different side of the same coin when it came to the Argent Dawn Those two could have worked pretty well, both looking to take back the lands of Lordaeron from the Scourge if, by radically different means Instead they went on, hit after hit, destroying them then and again and reducing them to nothing but dummies that scream random racism to the high heavens and that have no reason to exist except to fill space as enemies And while not so related, in general modern Blizzard has been terrible when it comes to handle the Paladins since Legion, The Ebon Blade casually ravaging both Scarlets and Argents with no retribution whatsoever, suddenly hinting with Xera and Yrel that "The Light that up to this point has always been a benevolent force now turns out its just as evil as the very Void and in fact the Void might not be as evil", and a small yet incredibly loud and obnoxious group of the playerbase literally screaming for the likes of Turalyon to "turn evil" so they can kill him because, hes fascist or something and Anduin now not feeling his conection to the Light The noble image of a Paladin, a person of righteousness and justice has now being turned into a mockery by modern writters who only seem them as a target to made fun of in their awful storytelling
I'mma keep it real, chief, the Scarlet Crusade WERE/ARE the other side of the coin. They let their pride and zeal corrupt their order and due to that and the fact that they were infiltrated by a Dreadlord, they quickly became a group of overly-paranoid, xenophobic, irrational zealots who'd torture and main anyone they found to be impure. In a way, they resemble the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition of the real world. Religious fanatics who show no mercy to those them deem to be heretics. That's why those who'd later found the Argent Dawn defected. They saw the road the Crusade was going down and decided there was another way to go about it that was more true to the core beliefs of the Silver Hand and the Light. They embraced the idea of allowing other races, even those of the Horde to join their ranks. Not only did it bolster their forces, it allowed them to quickly obtain support and approval from both of the major players, eventually becoming a major player itself, though it would not become a governing body like the Horde and Alliance.
I hope so. But he would have a lot to catch up to since the left. Lore has been all over the place and i dont think the Crusade is very high on his agenda.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn to be clear: i dont think the crusade is the biggest problem. I havent touched a warcraft game since wotlk, but from what I heard the lore is in utter shambles…
Very neat video! The Scarlet Crusade has always struck me as a unique faction with great story-telling potential. Much like the Defias Brotherhood, once someone thinks for themselves knowing their backstory, it gets pretty hard to see them as just mindless enemies to slaughter. Especially with the Scarlet Crusade.... with the society of their own, fighting the undead for survival... meh. Definitely agree with the notion, that they deserve better. I understand how they are supposed to be villains and corrupted by demons, but demons had to infiltrate them disguised for a reason; they indeed fight with a purpose, heroically. Yeah, they are pretty xenophobic, but considering your points... being left on their own to die and cope with extreme trauma... facing the scourge, which I assume, tries every horrible ways to set up traps and deceive them... being super cautious is the only way to stay alive. I'm not an active Warcraft player myself, but with the War Within and what follows, I hope the Light Emperor story line will give some depth to this side of Warcraft, reflecting on their separate faction, society... and not just present the Light Emperor as yet another fanatical leader to overthrow, but rather an entity with more nuanced relationship to us and the world. We will see.
I really REALLY appreciate this video. Thank you for standing up for the Scarlet Crusade, as they have always been the true fighters of Lordaeron. They did what they had to, doing what they believed and knew to be right, no matter who it offended. They were persecuted, even though they were the ones that needed the most help. They accomplished more than most of the other holy orders of the Light.
A few points about the Scarlet Crusade If they wanna retake Lordaeron, they will never win if they keep rejecting allies and going against The Horde, The Alliance and the neutral races at the same time. I admire their bravery and spirit but it's time to be realistic if they want to retake their land But know they're just cannon fodder for Blizzard and dont have any dephts anymore and I hate blizzard for that tbh
The Scarlet Crusade would never ally with the Horde, firstly. They're a faction of humans, mostly from Lordaeron. Many of them are Silver Hand veterans who've no doubt fought against the Orcish Horde. Besides, the Horde allied itself with the Undead, so there's no way in Hell they'd work with people that ally themselves with the Undead. The same can technically be said for the Alliance, as they, much like the Horde, use the Knights Of The Ebon Blade. The Ebon Blade are an order of Death Knights, with their first notable campaign as a force being to sack New Avalon and Havenshire, two Scarlet towns located in the area of Tyr's Hand. They never assaulted any neutral race, though they have attacked the Argent Dawn and Argent Crusade for obvious reasons. The Scarlet Crusade have always been evil and have always been more-or-less fodder, much like the Twilight's Hammer or any other group we see influences of across multiple zones.
Scarlet Crusade was so obviously sacrificed on the altar of woke. Such a waste. It was arguably the coolest faction in WoW. “mUh nAziS...” What really triggered me (on top of the garbage story arc they were given recently) is how little care the my little pony Devs put into their armor. They just slapped the new 3-piece set on top of some random black and yellow sets from Cata and called it a day. Shameful. In an ideal world the Scarlet Crusade is cleansed of the Dreadlord influence and redeemed by Turalyon, who - after leading leading the reclamation of Lordaeron as the Scarlet Highlord & a noble of Lordaeron - is named King of Lordaeron. Arator, as a half elf half human future King of Lordaeron, can be a perfect liaison between the humans and the Arathi, etc....
This is a great take, especially since there was so much build up during Burning Crusade towards Turalyon returning etc. Almost any story arc would have been better. I feel pretty alienated by the Lore after Wrath of the Lich King. Havent played much since and WoW never felt the same afterwards.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jnAgreed. It's not about the world and the people anymore, its about stroking the player's ego as "MuH cHamPIoN". Lordaeron is symbolically the "Rome / Constantinople" of Warcraft (the spiritual center of Humans) and they keep repeatedly taking massive dumps on it (and Humans, by proxy), in favour of the Undead (literal genocidal zombies). Kick the Undead out of Lordaeron into some unused part of Azeroth.
I have a feeling the Scarlet Crusade are going to be a big deal when this Light Emperor shows up. And since all their "villains" actually end up just being heroes I'm ready for a Scarlet Redemption Arc. For the Light!
They were never portrayed as NAZIs. That's the Forsaken and, arguably, mainstream Lordaeron itself. The Scarlet Crusade, while sympathetic, were villains, inspired by the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades of the real world. Things that aren't exactly looked back on fondly. Remember, the Scarlet Crusade have always been a faction of hyper-zealous religious extremists who are xenophobic and intolerant of other faiths, even if they aren't the Scourge or Demonic. Are their goals noble, just, and understandable? Of course. But that does not excuse the depravity, butchery, and insanity that the Crusade went to rapidly.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 You're right, however: In the modern Warcraft (Soycraft) they're portrayed as mUh eViL LiGht naZis, who's goal is now all of a sudden not liberating Lordaeron anymore, but eradicating all non-humans... for some reason. Would the og / well-written Scarlet Crusade mount an offensive in Gilneas (for no apparent reason)? Of course not, it doesn't serve their motivation, which is liberating Lordaeron. So why is the SCrusade in Gilneas? "tO eXteRminAte tEh wOrgeN". In the modern Soycraft, they've done a complete 180; to where now somehow the genocidal, evil Forsaken are now the good guys - and the SC are the bad guys who are trying to genocide the (already dead) poor "innocent" Undead who are just feeling so sad, and woe is them... The Scarlet Crusade used to be anti-heroes, now they're just written as insane lunatics who's ideology is wiping non-humans from the face of the earth, which is bullshit. For evidence of this, read any post relating to the Scarlet Crusade and you'll see that this has filtered through to the community who now view them as purely evil, without any moral grayness or nobility in their cause whatsoever. "They're trying to genocide the Undead, so they're evil!" -- whereas in Classic mostly everyone (having played WC3 and not gone through 20 years of bolshevik brainwashing so as to now always view humans as evil) viewed the Scarlet Crusade as the coolest faction in Warcraft. For Lordaeron!
I roleplayed the scarlet crusade for 18 years, I petitioned and got the scarlet tabard re-added to WoW after it was taken out in Cataclysm. The Scarlet Crusade was done so dirty that I actually think they are the biggest lost potential in Warcraft itself. We are told they are evil and crazy but they reacted in an understandable way, the leadership was evil and manipulative but the common solider and even knights, peasants and nobles found themselves in an impossible situation. Its honestly laughable that we now have Eredar and Deathknights in our factions but the Scarlet Crusade are still treated as worse and completely unforgivable. What would you do if you were forced to eat nothing but pumpkin for a decade?
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 Hindsight that denies the humanity of the situation at the time. With the information that the common solider had, they had little option but to trust in their leadership. Nobody had any idea about any demons in fact it was the last thing on their minds after the undead destroyed the kingdom. The Crusade was built on lies and deception, an entire faction that was led to believe they were the last hope for humanity. Those men were only innocent and righteous to the Alliance. To the crusade, they were a threat and to protect those that they deemed innocent they destroyed them. Just as the Alliance and AD did in return on a far wider and more brutal slaughter.
@@Scarletlord Even if the average Soldier didn't know what was going on, don't you think they'd take a moment to go "Hang on... Why're we doing this?" Especially after the events of the Plaguelands, where Balnazzar revealed his true colors to the Crimson Legion and slaughtered them all before making them the Risen? Besides that, even when faced with the truth, the common footman of the Scarlet Crusade refused to accept the idea that their order was built on a lie. The Argent Crusade, meanwhile, was built on the original ideas of the Silver Hand and the concept that being xenophobic isolationists was bad. Not just for morale, but in general, especially against the Scourge. Tirion himself would even go on to later state that the Lich King used the wars between the Horde and Alliance to bolster his own armies. That he is the true winner in any engagement between the Horde and Alliance. In fact, as I recall, the Argents even worked WITH the Scarlet Crusade's leadership during Classic to put down Kel'thuzad. The Scarlets continued to be an annoyance, with the Argents threatening to cast them out should they be any trouble. Also, what do you mean the by Argent Dawn slaughter? The Argent Dawn did not slaughter any Scarlets. If anything, they took over abandoned positions and convinced many Scarlets to join their cause. The Alliance, meanwhile, would learn of the Scarlet Crusade's zealotry and monstrous actions, deeming them to be fanatical zealots who twisted the Light to fit their own manic agenda, who were also corrupted by demons. The Scarlet Crusade are meant to be sympathetic villains. Not Anti-Heroes. Their fall is tragic, but their actions are horrific. You can feel sad for them and understand why they do the things that they do, but be disgusted with their actions and refuse to be a part of their cause.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 What actions did the scarlet crusade take to justify killing thousands of them? I can understand your point of view from the Horde side of things but the Alliance have forgiven worse for far less. However in game the only mention of scarlets doing anything to the Alliance is in one quest in dragon blight. The Argent Dawn and Crusade sent the player to kill scarlets on multiple occasions. The Alliance might have cast them out for their involvement with a demon and yet only a few years later allowed Eredar to join them. They are sympathetic and they are justifiably evil in my opinion. I may be slightly disgusted by the actions of Scarlets however they pale in comparison to what the other factions have done in response.
@@Scarletlord The Scarlet Crusade twisted the Light to suit their own agendas, allowed themselves to be corrupted by a Dreadlord, are outright racist to any who aren't human (Which, ya know, considering the Alliance has other races besides them, it's kind of a big deal.) and even after their demonic influence has been dealt with, they still attack anyone on sight, regardless of which faction they support. Hell, even Joseph The Awakened went mad and declared that anyone who did not practice the Light would be barred from being a part of the Scarlet Crusade. I think that, y'know, the CHURCH OF THE HOLY LIGHT has supreme authority to decide what is and isn't heresy. As for the Eredar? It's odd, I will say, however Velen did say that he would talk to the leader of the Man'ari that seek to repent for their misdeeds and that they have much to discuss. The difference is that they wish to attone for their sins, many they may be. The Scarlet Crusade, however, do not wish to do any such thing and indeed, even went as far as to use Genn Greymane as a tool, only to then kill him once he was no longer needed. Others still clung to the old texts of Dathrohan, who was the one to create the Headless Horseman. If anything, the Scarlet Crusade were puppets of the Legion, far after they were destroyed as a unified force on Argus.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn gigachad accent. Heavy parallels between Europe and Lordaeron rn (I'm sure you understand what I'm alluding to) 😠😥 Reclamation must occur.
ah ok dann waren es nur die voice cracks und echt cooles video danke. endlicht sagt es mal einer der Scarlet Crusade und lord Garithos did nothing wrong!
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn when the intro blasted up my speakers, I ofcause turned down the volume so i woundt go deaf. Then the part where you started to talk was so low i couldnt hear any of it. So try and level the volumes so one part wont hurt the listener and another wont be able to be heard.
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Sally Whitemane (And the Scarlet Crusade) [Lore]](/img/n.gif)
I went from seeing The Scarlet Crusade as just one of numerous groups of canon fodder to actually modeling my own main on them. And the more Blizzard tries to tell me the Light is evil the more Scarlet I'm going to get.
Not a year goes by that I don't think of the Crusade and how valiantly they held out against the scourge.
I always found it annoying that we had to fought this faction. It would have been really cool if we could have started, as players, to help the crusade come back to its root. Nonetheless, one of the last cool factions that blizzard ever created
I always played through the Scarlet Crusade area. Is my favorite part.
yeah me2. I liked Tirisfal a lot. Spent so much time just hanging out in this gloomy, rainy and light forgotten Land.
Keep it up, as a major Warcraft lore nerd I enjoyed this. 👍
thanks, will do!
They remind me a lot of the blood elves, except the blood elves became fel magic junkies allying with their former enemies, while the crusade stuck with the light and became fanatics, rejecting everyone non-human.
Interesting though that one can see statues of Scarlet Heroes standing in the Hall of Champions, some of them Dwarfs and Elves.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn It's from the time before the scourge, where elves and dwarves contributed to the knights of the silver hand, the organisation the crusade was born from. Look among their ranks, you see and elves/dwarves there?
@@MrOrmanley Nah it is not from before the Scourge. Just look at the plates. Those Dwarfes and Elves fought when the Crusade was already founded and battled the Scourged, died fighting them
@@MrOrmanley wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arellas_Fireleaf
@MrOrmanley wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Fellari_Swiftarrow and they got little to do with original Silverhand, but were Commanders and Soldiers of the Crusade back in the day
Dude, thank you for telling us this story. I'm actually about to enter again into the scarlet monastery and I will think of every of these things while venturing in it again
you are very welcome.
My first roleplaying character was a Scarlet Crusader.
I agree with your verdict. The Scarlet Crusade was done dirty and offd in a really awful way. Even worse that blizz keeps bringing them back in ever worse iterations
thanks. I really seems like they wasted the Crusade intentionally
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn I like the Scarlet crusade and the way they keep bringing them back along with the cult of the twilight. is reminiscent of the fact that you can’t kill an ideology. It’s also a look into the fact that humans civilizations in World of Warcraft have this undertone to them that encourages these cults to continue to exist. (making it a structural problem) They just need to get the tone right when they bring them back. Because when they bring them back, it’s being shoehorned in most times.
There is a contingent of modern "content creators". (Programmers, designers, influencers, all forms of people who make all forms of content)
That seem to be angling towards an attempt at shifting cultural paradigms to "what was good, is bad. What was bad, is good.".
And I'm quite annoyed by it.
There isn't anything any writer at blizzard could ever do to make me not love the Scarlet Crusade.
Even the Reclamation of Gilneas didn't work, because the level of contrivance they went through to make the Forsaken seem like good guys forms an impossible bar to clear for any suspension of disbelief. The simple fact that the city is reclaimed not from the monsters that actively tried to destroy its people but from a completely unrelated group that if anything would have been sympathetic to the cause of a people besieged by undead abominations and by them backed into an existential corner tells all.
Honestly I didnt even bother reading or playing through the Story after Legion. But from what Ive heard they basically c#ckd the Forsaken and made the Line of Menethil end with Calia as a newborn lightsided Forsaken. i think WoW writers suffer from the same illness as Hollywood and Disney etc. They lack actual talent and creativity and then you end up with bad stories
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn You're fortunate. Read no further if you wish to remain pure.
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In the Alpha/Beta of Shadowlands they tried to change the Forsaken intro narration to say this:
"As one of the undead Forsaken, you have been reanimated by dark magic. Though shunned by the living, you tirelessly strive to protect them.”
They got a lot of much-deserved hate for it, because it's completely ridiculous and so brazenly out of character for the Forsaken that even the usual shills couldn't mindbreak themselves into liking it, and as far as I'm aware it didn't make it to live.
Nowadays Calia is their queen in all but name, able to direct the Forsaken on her whims despite them as a people and the other members of their new Desolate Council (sans Voss) not trusting her.
They don't care that the Gilneans brutalized them in Silverpine and fought them to a stand-still, nor at all about the countless lives they must have spent at this point simply trying to hold onto Gilneas itself and securing their border against further assault.
And Tess, the daughter of Genn, sister to Prince Liam who died in the initial effort to reclaim their city, is the one that invited them to help in the reclamation to begin with. Then Mia, Genn's wife, actually chides Genn for being put off on seeing them there.
And you go there and kill Crusaders and what do you see on the shores across the city's moat but Forsaken catapults hurling barrels of blight directly at the city just like they did during their attempt to scorch the earth. But nobody cares about it, nobody gives anything resembling a damn.
Even worse, there is zero difference between the Alliance and Horde experiences of the quest. They all do the exact same things, and share the exact same moment where Genn and the rest of the Alliance forces clad in Stormwind regalia -- because God forbid any faction content on either side involve aught besides Stormwind Humans or Orcs -- charge in to mangle the new remnants of the Scarlet Crusade.
And in the end Genn hands off the crown to Tess after she downplays Liam's death and calls him a bad father.
It's the most abominable, emasculating, miserable, and flagrantly stupid piece of writing I've ever seen put to page.
@@DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL God that was awful to read. But as Stannis Baratheon intended, I much rather face hard truths than submit to nice lies.
@@DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL Good thing I stay away from modern WoW as much as I can. Still the heart yearns for the good old days of Warcraft
When Genn said he should never have built that wall I was dumbfounded. Like "Wasn't your city being besieged by the undead at the time?! But I noticed no one is give the pandarians shit about their wall.
I'm all in the on Scarlet Crusade being heroes. Hopefully with Metzen back they'll start to nuance the Scarlets' story. The stuff we get from the Brotherhood of Light NPCs is pretty much the same as the Scarlets' genocidal stance. So, maybe they'll start to rearrange some of that, especially with Balnazzar actually gone and no longer running the Scarlet Crusade.
I've always been drawn to the Crusade. How could you continue in such a world after watching everything and everyone you love be destroyed? Such a shame they were turned into cartoon villains by the current furry blizzard team. Which is now pushing both factions together like there is no history of brutal and horrific acts of violence against each other? Oh it is all fine and dandy now players. Nevermind the fact that only a few years ago these Orcs, Trolls, and Undead were burning your towns, and butchering your people. Just go hand in hand and help do these quests to make these scrawny dragon people happy. *spits*
😢 yeah I never got into this dragon lore. Cataclysm was a step in the right direction, bringing the War back into Warcraft. Every expansion afterwards feels like a continuous pop culture reference
I completely agree with you. There’s something deeply nostalgic and poignant about the earlier, grittier versions of Warcraft lore, where the Crusade and other factions like the Defias Brotherhood or the Night Elves possessed a more nuanced, hardcore essence. This radical and dark undertone added a ayer of depth and realism that seems glossed over in modern WoW. he Warcraft universe-where the strife between the Horde and the Alliance wasn't just backdrop but the heart of the narrative. The persistent tension and animosity gave the world a palpable sense of danger and unpredictability. Nowadays it is just one giga-mega world ending threat after the other, some great, big evil bad guy and a bit of sparkle and dragon glitter to go along with. Now, with the push towards a more unified, 'fluffy' approach, it feels as if much of the original spirit has been diluted. The historical grievances and fierce loyalties that shaped the identities of different factions are being sidelined in favour of this "One Azeroth" approach, where everyone comes together almost all the times to fight some greater evil Thingydibob
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn Agreed. It would be fine to focus on the big bad of the expansion if it was a different game with no past history outside of the mmo. But it isn't. People like to say that the RTS lore is small or insignificant to the lore of the mmo. The RTS lore laid the ground work for every single thing that came after WoW launched, and the was the driving force behind it. It may have been twenty something years for us to move forward with this narrative, but for the in game characters it hasn't. All of this shit that has happened to everyone who lives on Azeroth has taken place within 10-15'ish years. About 30'ish years since the First War. That isn't a lot of time at all in comparison to real life events. We are still feeling the consequences of WW2, and the Cold War. Pushing all of that history to the side in favor of some new writers ideas of fun and whimsy is a slap in the face of the history of this game. It sucks getting invested in something and watching it be corrupted and ruined in front of your eyes. Like the Scarlet Crusade! lol
@@Complication84 couldnt agree more
Great vdieo! I never knew this from just playing the game.
you are welcome
I agree completely and have been making relatively similar arguments for years.
Scarlet crusade did nothing wrong. I hate that they are our enemies instead of working with them.
Totally. In my dreams Alliance and Crusade and Brotherhood of Light drove back the darkness together.
The Scarlet Crusade did a LOT wrong. It's why they're so well-liked. Like Magnus from Warhammer 40K, they had many flaws and were too blind to notice them or too hateful and insane to care. They're meant to be villains, but sympathetic ones you can relate to and understand.
I always loved ther aesthetic.
Yeah, it's very distinct, I dig it too.
For the light brothers
Scarlet crusade turned from great faction with potential to a meme is one of saddest part of wow lore right now
1:15 To be honest, a BIG issue for me is that part of the story is told NOT IN GAME but in BOOKS and COMICS instead. Those two mediums are ok, if all they do is RETELL what you can see IN GAME, preferably with more depth.
But in addition, for my taste they retcon too much, they create stuff that doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever. The story for the most part, did make sense up to the middle of the Mists of Pandaria expansion. I for one was not a huge fan story-wise to turn Garrosh into a villain, I find the backstory for Warlords of Draenor hilariously bad. Garrosh with the help of a Bronze Dragonflight guy travels "to the past of a parallel universe Draenor". Let that sink in. Just because "our" Gul'dan is long dead, and they so wish they could put him up as a boss.
What follows was Legion, which for the most part made sense, save Gul'dan. The thing that makes no sense, is the fact that we could defeat the Legion... a faction with never-ending resources, with WORLDS OF SOLDIERS... can be brought down like this.
Battle for Azeroth was somewhat better storywise, but it feels rushed, they blew great enemies too fast, Aszhara should have gotten a own Expansion, but instead she they twisted the tale in a way that shes the handmaiden of N'zoth. Great.
I didn't play Shadowlands when it was live, I did play the story now. Shadowlands is another one of those half-baked expansions, the story makes no sense, the gameplay is trash with its splintered mini-islands which is the ultimate middle finger to everyone wanting a big island where they can fly around.
But Dragonflight is not better story-wise. Better then Shadowlands and other deep points like Garrosh's fall or Gul'dan.
A big issue i find with the Scarlet Crusade is that Blizzard failed to made them a different side of the same coin when it came to the Argent Dawn
Those two could have worked pretty well, both looking to take back the lands of Lordaeron from the Scourge if, by radically different means
Instead they went on, hit after hit, destroying them then and again and reducing them to nothing but dummies that scream random racism to the high heavens and that have no reason to exist except to fill space as enemies
And while not so related, in general modern Blizzard has been terrible when it comes to handle the Paladins since Legion, The Ebon Blade casually ravaging both Scarlets and Argents with no retribution whatsoever, suddenly hinting with Xera and Yrel that "The Light that up to this point has always been a benevolent force now turns out its just as evil as the very Void and in fact the Void might not be as evil", and a small yet incredibly loud and obnoxious group of the playerbase literally screaming for the likes of Turalyon to "turn evil" so they can kill him because, hes fascist or something and Anduin now not feeling his conection to the Light
The noble image of a Paladin, a person of righteousness and justice has now being turned into a mockery by modern writters who only seem them as a target to made fun of in their awful storytelling
I feel like this is much the same thing as with modern Star Wars: Destroying old ideals, old heroes. postmodernism, deconstructionism.
I'mma keep it real, chief, the Scarlet Crusade WERE/ARE the other side of the coin. They let their pride and zeal corrupt their order and due to that and the fact that they were infiltrated by a Dreadlord, they quickly became a group of overly-paranoid, xenophobic, irrational zealots who'd torture and main anyone they found to be impure. In a way, they resemble the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition of the real world. Religious fanatics who show no mercy to those them deem to be heretics. That's why those who'd later found the Argent Dawn defected. They saw the road the Crusade was going down and decided there was another way to go about it that was more true to the core beliefs of the Silver Hand and the Light. They embraced the idea of allowing other races, even those of the Horde to join their ranks. Not only did it bolster their forces, it allowed them to quickly obtain support and approval from both of the major players, eventually becoming a major player itself, though it would not become a governing body like the Horde and Alliance.
Sometimes a man just has to crusade.
with the return of metzen ... any hope for warcraft in the future?
I hope so. But he would have a lot to catch up to since the left. Lore has been all over the place and i dont think the Crusade is very high on his agenda.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn to be clear: i dont think the crusade is the biggest problem. I havent touched a warcraft game since wotlk, but from what I heard the lore is in utter shambles…
Very neat video! The Scarlet Crusade has always struck me as a unique faction with great story-telling potential. Much like the Defias Brotherhood, once someone thinks for themselves knowing their backstory, it gets pretty hard to see them as just mindless enemies to slaughter.
Especially with the Scarlet Crusade.... with the society of their own, fighting the undead for survival... meh. Definitely agree with the notion, that they deserve better. I understand how they are supposed to be villains and corrupted by demons, but demons had to infiltrate them disguised for a reason; they indeed fight with a purpose, heroically. Yeah, they are pretty xenophobic, but considering your points... being left on their own to die and cope with extreme trauma... facing the scourge, which I assume, tries every horrible ways to set up traps and deceive them... being super cautious is the only way to stay alive.
I'm not an active Warcraft player myself, but with the War Within and what follows, I hope the Light Emperor story line will give some depth to this side of Warcraft, reflecting on their separate faction, society... and not just present the Light Emperor as yet another fanatical leader to overthrow, but rather an entity with more nuanced relationship to us and the world. We will see.
Thank you, means a lot to hear people still being able to reflect on this topic. Shame really that it came to this
I really REALLY appreciate this video. Thank you for standing up for the Scarlet Crusade, as they have always been the true fighters of Lordaeron. They did what they had to, doing what they believed and knew to be right, no matter who it offended. They were persecuted, even though they were the ones that needed the most help. They accomplished more than most of the other holy orders of the Light.
Thank you, i am glad that so many feel the same about the Crusade
The Scarlet Crusade IS WoW to me.
They were right. Just sad that their leader was also their enemy in disguise.
A few points about the Scarlet Crusade
If they wanna retake Lordaeron, they will never win if they keep rejecting allies and going against The Horde, The Alliance and the neutral races at the same time. I admire their bravery and spirit but it's time to be realistic if they want to retake their land
But know they're just cannon fodder for Blizzard and dont have any dephts anymore and I hate blizzard for that tbh
True
The Scarlet Crusade would never ally with the Horde, firstly. They're a faction of humans, mostly from Lordaeron. Many of them are Silver Hand veterans who've no doubt fought against the Orcish Horde. Besides, the Horde allied itself with the Undead, so there's no way in Hell they'd work with people that ally themselves with the Undead. The same can technically be said for the Alliance, as they, much like the Horde, use the Knights Of The Ebon Blade. The Ebon Blade are an order of Death Knights, with their first notable campaign as a force being to sack New Avalon and Havenshire, two Scarlet towns located in the area of Tyr's Hand.
They never assaulted any neutral race, though they have attacked the Argent Dawn and Argent Crusade for obvious reasons.
The Scarlet Crusade have always been evil and have always been more-or-less fodder, much like the Twilight's Hammer or any other group we see influences of across multiple zones.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 Do you consider the horde and alliance villains as well?
@@Leorics-mf2jz With the Horde and Alliance, it's a lot more complex.
I really think their lore could have been handled a lot better
100% agree!
Scarlet Crusade was so obviously sacrificed on the altar of woke. Such a waste. It was arguably the coolest faction in WoW. “mUh nAziS...”
What really triggered me (on top of the garbage story arc they were given recently) is how little care the my little pony Devs put into their armor. They just slapped the new 3-piece set on top of some random black and yellow sets from Cata and called it a day. Shameful.
In an ideal world the Scarlet Crusade is cleansed of the Dreadlord influence and redeemed by Turalyon, who - after leading leading the reclamation of Lordaeron as the Scarlet Highlord & a noble of Lordaeron - is named King of Lordaeron.
Arator, as a half elf half human future King of Lordaeron, can be a perfect liaison between the humans and the Arathi, etc....
This is a great take, especially since there was so much build up during Burning Crusade towards Turalyon returning etc. Almost any story arc would have been better. I feel pretty alienated by the Lore after Wrath of the Lich King. Havent played much since and WoW never felt the same afterwards.
@@EternalCrusader-it1jnAgreed.
It's not about the world and the people anymore, its about stroking the player's ego as "MuH cHamPIoN".
Lordaeron is symbolically the "Rome / Constantinople" of Warcraft (the spiritual center of Humans) and they keep repeatedly taking massive dumps on it (and Humans, by proxy), in favour of the Undead (literal genocidal zombies).
Kick the Undead out of Lordaeron into some unused part of Azeroth.
I have a feeling the Scarlet Crusade are going to be a big deal when this Light Emperor shows up. And since all their "villains" actually end up just being heroes I'm ready for a Scarlet Redemption Arc. For the Light!
They were never portrayed as NAZIs. That's the Forsaken and, arguably, mainstream Lordaeron itself. The Scarlet Crusade, while sympathetic, were villains, inspired by the Spanish Inquisition and Crusades of the real world. Things that aren't exactly looked back on fondly. Remember, the Scarlet Crusade have always been a faction of hyper-zealous religious extremists who are xenophobic and intolerant of other faiths, even if they aren't the Scourge or Demonic. Are their goals noble, just, and understandable? Of course. But that does not excuse the depravity, butchery, and insanity that the Crusade went to rapidly.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 You're right, however:
In the modern Warcraft (Soycraft) they're portrayed as mUh eViL LiGht naZis, who's goal is now all of a sudden not liberating Lordaeron anymore, but eradicating all non-humans... for some reason.
Would the og / well-written Scarlet Crusade mount an offensive in Gilneas (for no apparent reason)? Of course not, it doesn't serve their motivation, which is liberating Lordaeron.
So why is the SCrusade in Gilneas? "tO eXteRminAte tEh wOrgeN".
In the modern Soycraft, they've done a complete 180; to where now somehow the genocidal, evil Forsaken are now the good guys - and the SC are the bad guys who are trying to genocide the (already dead) poor "innocent" Undead who are just feeling so sad, and woe is them...
The Scarlet Crusade used to be anti-heroes, now they're just written as insane lunatics who's ideology is wiping non-humans from the face of the earth, which is bullshit.
For evidence of this, read any post relating to the Scarlet Crusade and you'll see that this has filtered through to the community who now view them as purely evil, without any moral grayness or nobility in their cause whatsoever. "They're trying to genocide the Undead, so they're evil!" -- whereas in Classic mostly everyone (having played WC3 and not gone through 20 years of bolshevik brainwashing so as to now always view humans as evil) viewed the Scarlet Crusade as the coolest faction in Warcraft.
For Lordaeron!
I roleplayed the scarlet crusade for 18 years, I petitioned and got the scarlet tabard re-added to WoW after it was taken out in Cataclysm. The Scarlet Crusade was done so dirty that I actually think they are the biggest lost potential in Warcraft itself. We are told they are evil and crazy but they reacted in an understandable way, the leadership was evil and manipulative but the common solider and even knights, peasants and nobles found themselves in an impossible situation.
Its honestly laughable that we now have Eredar and Deathknights in our factions but the Scarlet Crusade are still treated as worse and completely unforgivable. What would you do if you were forced to eat nothing but pumpkin for a decade?
Probably join the faction that went "Yeah, no, being led by another type of demon and murdering innocent and righteous men isn't the way, chief." .
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 Hindsight that denies the humanity of the situation at the time. With the information that the common solider had, they had little option but to trust in their leadership. Nobody had any idea about any demons in fact it was the last thing on their minds after the undead destroyed the kingdom.
The Crusade was built on lies and deception, an entire faction that was led to believe they were the last hope for humanity. Those men were only innocent and righteous to the Alliance. To the crusade, they were a threat and to protect those that they deemed innocent they destroyed them. Just as the Alliance and AD did in return on a far wider and more brutal slaughter.
@@Scarletlord Even if the average Soldier didn't know what was going on, don't you think they'd take a moment to go "Hang on... Why're we doing this?" Especially after the events of the Plaguelands, where Balnazzar revealed his true colors to the Crimson Legion and slaughtered them all before making them the Risen? Besides that, even when faced with the truth, the common footman of the Scarlet Crusade refused to accept the idea that their order was built on a lie.
The Argent Crusade, meanwhile, was built on the original ideas of the Silver Hand and the concept that being xenophobic isolationists was bad. Not just for morale, but in general, especially against the Scourge. Tirion himself would even go on to later state that the Lich King used the wars between the Horde and Alliance to bolster his own armies. That he is the true winner in any engagement between the Horde and Alliance. In fact, as I recall, the Argents even worked WITH the Scarlet Crusade's leadership during Classic to put down Kel'thuzad. The Scarlets continued to be an annoyance, with the Argents threatening to cast them out should they be any trouble.
Also, what do you mean the by Argent Dawn slaughter? The Argent Dawn did not slaughter any Scarlets. If anything, they took over abandoned positions and convinced many Scarlets to join their cause. The Alliance, meanwhile, would learn of the Scarlet Crusade's zealotry and monstrous actions, deeming them to be fanatical zealots who twisted the Light to fit their own manic agenda, who were also corrupted by demons.
The Scarlet Crusade are meant to be sympathetic villains. Not Anti-Heroes. Their fall is tragic, but their actions are horrific. You can feel sad for them and understand why they do the things that they do, but be disgusted with their actions and refuse to be a part of their cause.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460
What actions did the scarlet crusade take to justify killing thousands of them? I can understand your point of view from the Horde side of things but the Alliance have forgiven worse for far less. However in game the only mention of scarlets doing anything to the Alliance is in one quest in dragon blight. The Argent Dawn and Crusade sent the player to kill scarlets on multiple occasions.
The Alliance might have cast them out for their involvement with a demon and yet only a few years later allowed Eredar to join them. They are sympathetic and they are justifiably evil in my opinion.
I may be slightly disgusted by the actions of Scarlets however they pale in comparison to what the other factions have done in response.
@@Scarletlord The Scarlet Crusade twisted the Light to suit their own agendas, allowed themselves to be corrupted by a Dreadlord, are outright racist to any who aren't human (Which, ya know, considering the Alliance has other races besides them, it's kind of a big deal.) and even after their demonic influence has been dealt with, they still attack anyone on sight, regardless of which faction they support. Hell, even Joseph The Awakened went mad and declared that anyone who did not practice the Light would be barred from being a part of the Scarlet Crusade. I think that, y'know, the CHURCH OF THE HOLY LIGHT has supreme authority to decide what is and isn't heresy.
As for the Eredar? It's odd, I will say, however Velen did say that he would talk to the leader of the Man'ari that seek to repent for their misdeeds and that they have much to discuss. The difference is that they wish to attone for their sins, many they may be. The Scarlet Crusade, however, do not wish to do any such thing and indeed, even went as far as to use Genn Greymane as a tool, only to then kill him once he was no longer needed. Others still clung to the old texts of Dathrohan, who was the one to create the Headless Horseman. If anything, the Scarlet Crusade were puppets of the Legion, far after they were destroyed as a unified force on Argus.
ai is it you?
Where?
just a joke, the sound sounds like a ai voice
@@coman7257 thats my real voice with a thick german accent
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn gigachad accent.
Heavy parallels between Europe and Lordaeron rn (I'm sure you understand what I'm alluding to)
😠😥
Reclamation must occur.
ah ok dann waren es nur die voice cracks und echt cooles video danke. endlicht sagt es mal einer der Scarlet Crusade und lord Garithos did nothing wrong!
The difference between the intro and the voice is too big
Meaning? Please tell us what we can do better next time in your opinion
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn when the intro blasted up my speakers, I ofcause turned down the volume so i woundt go deaf. Then the part where you started to talk was so low i couldnt hear any of it. So try and level the volumes so one part wont hurt the listener and another wont be able to be heard.
@@Tacocarfter Ok thank you, will do in the future
can i get your prompts for your ai art please?
mostly Midjourney and specificly asking for art in darkhorse comic style
@@EternalCrusader-it1jn that is too generic i need word for word thanks